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(Huffington Post)   Census shows that places that should never have been populated eventually realized it   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 117
    More: Obvious, population ageing, new immigrants, Rick Snyder, Population Reference Bureau, Fort Benning, subprime mortgage crisis, meat packing plant, U.S. counties  
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17162 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 3:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 04:17:48 PM

EngineerAU: If you go to a bar to criticize the life choices of drunk strangers, you're going to have a bad time.


And a new quote has been added to my collection.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 04:18:34 PM

Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.


I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...
 
2013-03-14 04:18:46 PM

HeadLever: cgraves67: I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore

You may see some of that reverse if food  and other commodity prices stay pretty high.  Starting to see a little more movement into these sectors as a change.  Don't know if it will last, but there are some pretty good boom areas in the more rual areas compared to a decade ago.  Rural Nevada and North Dakota are two good examples.


Not for food.  Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.  With increased mechanization, we don't need as many farmers.  This will continue.
 
2013-03-14 04:21:40 PM

d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...


I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?
 
2013-03-14 04:23:08 PM

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.
***
Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]


I don't think those points are mutually exclusive.  BTW, nice view.

OtherBrotherDarryl: and yet Phoenix...


Moved out of there in '86, no desire to return other than to visit family.
Every time I explain the "heat island" concept, a mind is boggled.
 
2013-03-14 04:23:56 PM
I'm just here for the self-delivering BBQ supplies.

imageshack.us
 
2013-03-14 04:24:17 PM
The U.S. population has been decreasing for a long time, it has been offset by immigration. Places which are not attracting immigrants will of course tend to wither.
 
2013-03-14 04:26:11 PM

cman: I can't find meth. I think meth is one of those moral panic type drugs in this state and the actual amount of meth is quite low.

As for Oxy, sheesh, too many people are on that shiat.


Have you been to Biddeford or Lewiston lately?
 
2013-03-14 04:28:20 PM

ladyfortuna: That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs.


I agree.  Thing is that much of this area is all public land and won't be devloped.  Even with that, private land here is still pretty cheap compared to buying lots in the city.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-14 04:29:13 PM

tricycleracer: I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


golfclap.gif
 
2013-03-14 04:31:50 PM

NuclearPenguins: cman: I can't find meth. I think meth is one of those moral panic type drugs in this state and the actual amount of meth is quite low.

As for Oxy, sheesh, too many people are on that shiat.

Have you been to Biddeford or Lewiston lately?


I live in Lewiston
 
2013-03-14 04:33:00 PM

arethereanybeernamesleft: You lost me here.


If you like the area or have an attachement to it, you will do what you can to make a living where you can without having to move away from it.
 
2013-03-14 04:36:32 PM

RocketRay: Interesting they pick a picture of Bodie.


Agreed, didn't it die out about 100 years ago?  I visited in '93, but don't quite remember the saying - "They have to let me in heaven, because I've already been to Bode" or some such saying.
 
2013-03-14 04:38:44 PM

big_hed: All I see is COLD!!!! Brrrrr.....


We get all the seasons here.  Almost winter, winter, still winter and misquitoes.

Actually, it is not that bad here.
 
2013-03-14 04:40:35 PM

Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.


Maybe in some places.  However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.
 
2013-03-14 04:41:54 PM

HeadLever: arethereanybeernamesleft: You lost me here.

If you like the area or have an attachement to it, you will do what you can to make a living where you can without having to move away from it.


I know.  I was just joking, because I'm lucky enough to make a living off of the land that I'm attached to.
 
2013-03-14 04:42:56 PM

HeadLever: Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.

Maybe in some places.  However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.


The other issue is technology, it just takes fewer people to farm than it used to, so farmers have fewer children, the children don't have to stay and work on the farm, so they move away.
 
2013-03-14 04:43:07 PM

m00: "...new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics"

wait, what?


Haha!  I saw that.  Oh yeah, "If you build it, they will come."  That's what they want Hispanics for; meat packing, animal slaughterhouses, landscaping companies, and any kind of factory.
 
2013-03-14 04:46:03 PM
Due to the headline, I was expecting Las Vegas to be mentioned some where. I've never been there and don't have anything against it; I just think it's weird that it's in the middle of the desert.

Where I live, potable water is about a buck per 100 cubic feet, but the 5 to 6 month winters suck.
 
2013-03-14 04:49:11 PM
Census data shows that America's economic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.
 
2013-03-14 04:50:52 PM

Rapmaster2000: d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...

I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?


I grew up and lived just East of Kokomo by about 30 minutes. Yes, there is nothing. I got the hell out of there the first opportunity I got.
It's sad that Kokomo was referred to as a big city. Interesting fact tho: for a time, Kokomo had the highest number of restaurants per capita of anywhere in the nation. Don't know nor care if that's still true.
 
2013-03-14 04:53:56 PM

HeadLever: Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.

However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.


In what?  Restaurants?  Services?

Population is driven by jobs, jobs are driven by demand.  Increased farm mechanization reduces demand for farm jobs.

You cited Nevada (mining) and ND (oil).  Those are still labor intensive industries still.  Farm labor  demand has been falling for 50 years.

So no... there is no "maybe in some places" for corn farmers.
 
2013-03-14 04:54:13 PM

RocketRay: Bodi


Yes. Yes it is. The populated side too. At least is was the last time I was there
 
2013-03-14 04:56:14 PM

headncloudz: The article says that these counties should attract "new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics ". Wow, that kind of sounds racist.


It is, but these crappy paying jobs like Hispanics because they work, don't complain, don't strike, and will take less pay.  As a Hispanic, I used to get infuriated by this line of thought that penetrates so much of the country, as if none of us have abilities to do other kinds of work.
 
2013-03-14 04:56:18 PM

logieal: Rapmaster2000: d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...

I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?

I grew up and lived just East of Kokomo by about 30 minutes. Yes, there is nothing. I got the hell out of there the first opportunity I got.
It's sad that Kokomo was referred to as a big city. Interesting fact tho: for a time, Kokomo had the highest number of restaurants per capita of anywhere in the nation. Don't know nor care if that's still true.


Another town near there I thought was interesting was Logansport in that I drove through Logansport and I didn't see a single building that appeared to be newer than the 1970s.
 
2013-03-14 04:59:54 PM

Fissile: Census data shows that America's ruraleconomic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.


FTFY.

1) Agriculture becomes automated, reducing rural populations and driving people away.
2) Cars mean that you can drive 60 miles to the nearest large town, instead of taking the wagon into the small town 5 miles away.
3) These things, combined with reallocated budgets, means that the anchor for a lot of the small towns (Post Office/school), can go away or be combined.
4) Without a reason to exist, the small town dies out.

Repeat all the way across the country.

/And then Step 5: Because transportation infrastructure sucks and too many people are moving to the large city, everyone spends thousands of dollars each month on terrible shoebox apartments 4 miles and 30+ minutes from work.
 
2013-03-14 05:00:51 PM

d23: You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...


Rapmaster2000: I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?


I married a girl from Kokomo.  Her dad worked for Delco/Delphi.
I started dating the girl in '89-met her in Milwaukee.
Her brother went to Purdue--left for Colorado.
Her other brother went to Purdue--left for Chicago, then Boise.
Her sister went to Purdue--left for Colorado.

My wife has suggested many times over the years we should move to Carmel so I can work in Indianapolis.  Every time I ask her how many of her parent's kids got out of Dodge as soon as they could.  I also remind her I've known her since she was 22 and I have a vice-like memory of her stories about her childhood, before the passage of time turned those stories rosier than reality.

She finally gave up asking...
 
2013-03-14 05:04:47 PM

Rapmaster2000: Another town near there I thought was interesting was Logansport in that I drove through Logansport and I didn't see a single building that appeared to be newer than the 1970s.


Ah yes... Logansport. Their high school 'mascot' or name or whatever was the Berries. So they were the Logansport Berries. I got called Logan Berry a lot.
 
2013-03-14 05:11:36 PM

Tom_Slick: The other issue is technology, it just takes fewer people to farm than it used to, so farmers have fewer children, the children don't have to stay and work on the farm, so they move away.


Rapmaster2000: So no... there is no "maybe in some places" for corn farmers.


For midwest farming, you may be correct.  I have more experience here with ranching here in the intermountain west where more technology really does not necessarily translate into less labor.  Here, when ranchers are doing well, so are the hardware stores, vets, mechanics, etc.
 
2013-03-14 05:18:21 PM
The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"
 
2013-03-14 05:28:29 PM

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


That's right I was born there, but not a native since my parents were "from away"
 
2013-03-14 05:30:26 PM

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


I did enjoy the local news in Bangor where they sent a reporter out to broadcast live from the scene of a burglary.  I thought it was quaint.  Getting shot and killed in Atlanta doesn't even make the news.
 
2013-03-14 05:33:31 PM
"many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

This is a bad thing ? Here in Los Angeles it would be a wonderful place to live if we had about 5 million less people
 
2013-03-14 05:42:31 PM

Rapmaster2000: Getting shot and killed in Atlanta doesn't even make the news.


It was quite a shock to my system when I moved from Maine to Atlanta and was watching the evening news in Atlanta one night and they were running a story on a convenience store robbery and stating "normally we don't report on these as they are commonplace but this time..."
 
2013-03-14 05:44:57 PM
Where I grew up (and fled a looong time ago) - SE Wisconsin - that sort of semi-rural area between Madison and Milwaukee with lots of small of small towns would be totally dead or barely populated by old folks, but for the Mexicans who came in the mid- late 90's.

Really only some manufacturing industries left - many have remained.  Still lots of loud, hot and noisy low paying jobs that white folks don't want to do.

Who says America (or rather upper midwest) America is dying?
 
2013-03-14 05:48:16 PM
As fuel gets more expensive, the only people left in rural areas will be people who actually have a reason to be in rural areas, as apposed to people who commute long distances for "lifestyle" reasons.   People in rural areas will be employed in agriculture, logging, mining, energy production and the like.  Rural areas won't  die so much as they will change.  Modern agricultural, mining and logging methods means that few people will be needed to do those jobs.  As for the rest,  trends point to more urbanization because that style of living is inherently more efficient.  NYC has very low per capita energy use.   What will be history is the suburbs, especially the outlying xburbs, burbs far away from water, or in very hot climes.   For those of you who sunk big money into vinyl-clad, particle-board McMansions out in Bumfark, Nowhere......what is that the French say?  Oh, yeah, SUCKERS.
 
2013-03-14 05:54:41 PM
And when everyone lives in a city, indeed the world will be utopia.

Until sea levels rise, or food production declines, or panic sets in...
 
2013-03-14 06:04:55 PM
It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.
 
2013-03-14 06:10:35 PM

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


There are no jobs in Maine.
 
2013-03-14 06:11:00 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


As a Flint resident, I am okay with this.  It has been nice having less traffic congestion.  Nobody needs to feel the need to move here anytime soon.
 
2013-03-14 06:13:45 PM

tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


Don't feel bad. NO is basically a shiat hole with a nice garden district and the French quarter. When it all floods again, we won't lose anything of value...again.
 
2013-03-14 06:16:25 PM
I find it funny that everyone realizes young people are leaving old people behind, but nobody's asking why or to where nor why they're not sticking around (or are unable to)-- instead it's automatically "we need more immigrants" not "what are we doing wrong?" Hint: listen to young people and for once try to ignore the selfish/pissy demands of the old.
 
2013-03-14 06:18:21 PM
Is there a link to the report?  I want to find the fastest shrinking-population counties
 
2013-03-14 06:22:06 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Um, what?

Go check Google's traffic map right now.  Unless you have to do anything involving 696 (at which point you should just be using 12 mile), or some of the sympathetic traffic jams from 696, the board is green.  At 6:00 on a weekday.

Name me one other city in the country that can match that.  Where rush hour is not 'utter gridlock', but 'Maybe I should stay off a single freeway (and Telegraph, since Telegraph goes from 4 lanes to 3 immediately after 2 major freeways dump into it, which is stupid)'.

/And once summer starts, the traffic will get even better since large numbers of people will decamp for the UP.
//Of course, I've lived in Boston, Seattle, and SF, and my one experience with other midwestern cities was driving through and around Chicago, when I had 3 interviews (2 in Chicago, 1 in Madison) and I drove from Detroit.  How does Chicago even function?
 
2013-03-14 06:37:26 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Not amusing: The U.S. and world economies founded on the concept that there must be continual and unlimited growth despite finite land and resources. Greed really does put the blinders on people.
 
2013-03-14 06:39:09 PM

cman: tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.

Just wait until the "told ya so" folk get to spout their self-felatio when Manhattan is covered by the ocean.

/And seriously, San Francisco, you guys built your damn city on soft sand.


I would have shouted the second poster out of a bar as well. The port system from new orleans to baton rouge is the highest volume port system in the world.  new orleans has the highest volume port in that system.  say what you will, but new orleans' importance to commerce is a lot more important than the off chance that the city will need rebuilding once every 200 years and is more cost effective than moving 50 miles up river.  not to mention, the reason the city suffered so much is because the rest of the nation was enjoying all the benefits of cost effective shipping all the while refusing to pay the costs of maintaining the levee protection system (and disallowing louisiana from charging any kind of premium for the privilege)

it is not uncommon that the most important cities are near water.  it is not uncommon that water is dangerous.  the counties that are drying up are in the middle of no where.
 
2013-03-14 06:51:30 PM
Hey Tardmitter, find a link that actually works for the 90% of the planet Earth that isn't merrica.
 
2013-03-14 07:04:25 PM
Saying Michigan should be a top destination for legal immigrants to come and boost Detroit and other struggling areas, Snyder made a special appeal: "Please come here."

Not on a bet. Port Huron? Yes. Detroit? No.
 
2013-03-14 07:16:22 PM

HeadLever: ladyfortuna: That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs.

I agree.  Thing is that much of this area is all public land and won't be devloped.  Even with that, private land here is still pretty cheap compared to buying lots in the city.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x329]


I suspect that if certain climate change predictions come true, much of the private resident population of those western states is going to flee for states that have more water, food, etc. - leaving lots of even cheaper land behind. Obviously this is up in the air, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
2013-03-14 07:19:13 PM
sad to say but i almost prefer the empty falling down farms and vacant store-fronts as opposed to omaha's white flight

them suburbanites are just dumb

and cornhusker fans

same thing
 
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