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(Huffington Post)   Census shows that places that should never have been populated eventually realized it   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 117
    More: Obvious, population ageing, new immigrants, Rick Snyder, Population Reference Bureau, Fort Benning, subprime mortgage crisis, meat packing plant, U.S. counties  
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17167 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 3:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 01:37:11 PM  
SimCity 2013?
 
2013-03-14 02:05:23 PM  
In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!
 
2013-03-14 02:18:29 PM  
Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.
 
2013-03-14 02:23:37 PM  

xanadian: WOO!! YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2! WE'RE #2!


I'm happy to have added to that stat by moving away before I had a family enjoy!
 
2013-03-14 02:25:50 PM  
I disagree with the Pittsburgh assessment: people aren't moving out, they're dying out.

/Seriously, though: we have a lot of old people.
 
2013-03-14 02:48:24 PM  
What a census waste of human life.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 03:06:03 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.


You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?
 
2013-03-14 03:13:09 PM  
Subby your headline makes it sound as though the article is about areas such as low lying spots around rivers or on the shorline.
The article is about population shift due to social changes and economic factors.
It says that right in the headline and first paragraph.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 03:19:08 PM  
Since 2010, many of the fastest-growing U.S. metro areas have also been those that historically received a lot of federal dollars, including Fort Stewart, Ga., Jacksonville, N.C., Crestview, Fla., and Charleston-North Charleston, S.C., all home to military bases.

Roughly 46 percent of rural counties just beyond the edge of metropolitan areas experienced natural decrease, compared to 17 percent of urban counties.


So was subby pointing out that the rural areas should not have been populated or that areas where there isn't much pork barrel spending shouldn't have been populated?
 
2013-03-14 03:21:27 PM  

xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!


Our crack-based economy will eventually help us recover.

Just wait and see
 
2013-03-14 03:34:07 PM  

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


I think the auto industry 'exported' themselves. I am glad that the domestic auto industry has largely shucked their ignoble past, though, and I expect they'll be more respected in the long run.
 
2013-03-14 03:35:05 PM  
Interesting they pick a picture of Bodie.
 
2013-03-14 03:38:04 PM  

cman: xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!

Our crack meth and oxycontin-based economy will eventually help us recover.

Just wait and see


FTFY
 
2013-03-14 03:39:51 PM  
Eventually, low housing prices might draw people back if telecommuting ever becomes mainstream.
 
2013-03-14 03:40:03 PM  
Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.
 
2013-03-14 03:40:57 PM  
I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore.
 
2013-03-14 03:41:44 PM  

NuclearPenguins: cman: xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!

Our crack meth and oxycontin-based economy will eventually help us recover.

Just wait and see

FTFY


I can't find meth. I think meth is one of those moral panic type drugs in this state and the actual amount of meth is quite low.

As for Oxy, sheesh, too many people are on that shiat.
 
2013-03-14 03:42:48 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I disagree with the Pittsburgh assessment: people aren't moving out, they're dying out.

/Seriously, though: we have a lot of old people.


Pittsburgh metro area has had a net population gain 4 years in a row now. Kind of awesome - it's a great city.
 
2013-03-14 03:43:41 PM  
www.hopkinsmedicine.org
 
2013-03-14 03:44:30 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.


I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.
 
2013-03-14 03:44:32 PM  

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


About that...
 
2013-03-14 03:45:20 PM  

cgraves67: I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore


You may see some of that reverse if food  and other commodity prices stay pretty high.  Starting to see a little more movement into these sectors as a change.  Don't know if it will last, but there are some pretty good boom areas in the more rual areas compared to a decade ago.  Rural Nevada and North Dakota are two good examples.
 
2013-03-14 03:46:48 PM  
I've lived in Crestview Fla.
Seriously!
 
2013-03-14 03:46:51 PM  

tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


Just wait until the "told ya so" folk get to spout their self-felatio when Manhattan is covered by the ocean.

/And seriously, San Francisco, you guys built your damn city on soft sand.
 
2013-03-14 03:47:45 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.


That and a really, really good freeway system meaning that a 30 mile drive actually takes 30 minutes*, so people can actually live in the suburbs and not have horrific commutes.

*Only valid in the morning.  696 is a DISASTER at night.
 
2013-03-14 03:48:13 PM  
It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Then again, I'm not a homeowner, so maybe I just don't "get it."
 
2013-03-14 03:48:50 PM  
People go where the jobs are. Even in U S America where everyone has to stand in line for their small plastic cup of yummy snow.
 
2013-03-14 03:48:53 PM  
Why the hell are people moving to Grand Rapids?  Is Amway hiring?
 
2013-03-14 03:54:30 PM  
and yet Phoenix...
 
2013-03-14 03:55:17 PM  

tricycleracer: I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


If you go to a bar to criticize the life choices of drunk strangers, you're going to have a bad time.
 
2013-03-14 03:55:52 PM  
It's the govenment's fault.

Really.
 
2013-03-14 03:57:01 PM  

dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.


Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

mw2.google.com
 
2013-03-14 03:57:16 PM  
I'd love to move to the city, but it is way too crowded. But mark my words, if one of those zombie plagues happens, that is the first place I will go.
 
2013-03-14 03:58:17 PM  

xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!


I drove through WV last week. A large part of that state looks like a wasteland right now. Dead, brown, unpopulated. And lots of the areas that are populated look like they are falling apart. That includes the capital.
 
2013-03-14 03:58:21 PM  

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


I thought the unions sent the automakers to japan.
 
2013-03-14 04:05:21 PM  
 Kids grow up here in Vermont. Realize they can get paid a lot to teach buffoons to ski on a bunny slope in Colorado, where the slopes are like huge bunny slopes, then find out the rest of the country is paved, and has tons more in the pussy and burger selection department, plus, now weeds' practically legal out there.
We never see them again. If they don't like to ski, they move to Seattle.
If they don't like to bathe, they move to California.

Leaves the state to the old folks.
 
2013-03-14 04:07:07 PM  
New York ranks tops in new immigrants among large metro areas, but also ranks at the top for young residents moving away.

Something tells me that New York is "tops" in everything measured in magnitude instead of percentage.
 
m00
2013-03-14 04:07:21 PM  
"...new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics"

wait, what?
 
2013-03-14 04:07:43 PM  

GORDON: vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?

I thought the unions sent the automakers to japan.


To join Japanese unions.  They're sneaky that way.
 
2013-03-14 04:08:14 PM  

dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.


It amazes me you think geography can be so easily separated for lifestyle, plans, dreams, and culture.

I can't spend more than a week in the west before the aridness starts to give me the heebies. I felt more at home in Germany than I did in Los Angeles, even though I share a lifestyle, dream, and culture with LA and only topography with Germany.
 
2013-03-14 04:08:20 PM  

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]


That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs. I prefer mountains to people, thanks. Now I just need broadband everywhere...
 
GBB
2013-03-14 04:09:34 PM  

xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!


In WV, deaths out number teeth.
 
2013-03-14 04:11:56 PM  

vudukungfu: Kids grow up here in Vermont. Realize they can get paid a lot to teach buffoons to ski on a bunny slope in Colorado, where the slopes are like huge bunny slopes, then find out the rest of the country is paved, and has tons more in the pussy and burger selection department, plus, now weeds' practically legal out there.
We never see them again. If they don't like to ski, they move to Seattle.
If they don't like to bathe, they move to California.
Leaves the state to the old folks.


It's almost like they released New England sucks in the winter.
 
2013-03-14 04:12:37 PM  

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]


Some of us raised in the rural areas couldn't wait to get the fark out.

www.wargearstudio.com
This is how most people see rural Indiana.  At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.
 
2013-03-14 04:12:39 PM  
The article says that these counties should attract "new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics ". Wow, that kind of sounds racist.
 
2013-03-14 04:12:55 PM  

Mateorocks: [www.hopkinsmedicine.org image 540x211]


I was surprised to learn recently that Baltimore City's population actually increased.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-bz-balti mo re-population-grows-20130314,0,7688197.story
 
2013-03-14 04:13:27 PM  

HeadLever: Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.


Bingo.

Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

You lost me here.
 
2013-03-14 04:14:24 PM  

vudukungfu:  Kids grow up here in Vermont. Realize they can get paid a lot to teach buffoons to ski on a bunny slope in Colorado, where the slopes are like huge bunny slopes, then find out the rest of the country is paved, and has tons more in the pussy and burger selection department, plus, now weeds' practically legal out there.
We never see them again. If they don't like to ski, they move to Seattle.
If they don't like to bathe, they move to California.
Leaves the state to the old folks.


Having been through there plenty, it's easy to see your point.  I just don't get why it takes the Middlebury kids $200K to figure that out.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 04:14:34 PM  

mcreadyblue: Eventually, low housing prices might draw people back if telecommuting ever becomes mainstream.


As the new idiot CEO of Yahoo is blamed, telecommuting is only for the important people.

For everyone else in the 99.8% it's corporate feudalism.  Wait for the company dorms and the company stores... they're right around the bend again.
 
2013-03-14 04:17:11 PM  

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]



All I see is COLD!!!!  Brrrrr.....
 
2013-03-14 04:17:48 PM  

EngineerAU: If you go to a bar to criticize the life choices of drunk strangers, you're going to have a bad time.


And a new quote has been added to my collection.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 04:18:34 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.


I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...
 
2013-03-14 04:18:46 PM  

HeadLever: cgraves67: I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore

You may see some of that reverse if food  and other commodity prices stay pretty high.  Starting to see a little more movement into these sectors as a change.  Don't know if it will last, but there are some pretty good boom areas in the more rual areas compared to a decade ago.  Rural Nevada and North Dakota are two good examples.


Not for food.  Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.  With increased mechanization, we don't need as many farmers.  This will continue.
 
2013-03-14 04:21:40 PM  

d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...


I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?
 
2013-03-14 04:23:08 PM  

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.
***
Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]


I don't think those points are mutually exclusive.  BTW, nice view.

OtherBrotherDarryl: and yet Phoenix...


Moved out of there in '86, no desire to return other than to visit family.
Every time I explain the "heat island" concept, a mind is boggled.
 
2013-03-14 04:23:56 PM  
I'm just here for the self-delivering BBQ supplies.

imageshack.us
 
2013-03-14 04:24:17 PM  
The U.S. population has been decreasing for a long time, it has been offset by immigration. Places which are not attracting immigrants will of course tend to wither.
 
2013-03-14 04:26:11 PM  

cman: I can't find meth. I think meth is one of those moral panic type drugs in this state and the actual amount of meth is quite low.

As for Oxy, sheesh, too many people are on that shiat.


Have you been to Biddeford or Lewiston lately?
 
2013-03-14 04:28:20 PM  

ladyfortuna: That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs.


I agree.  Thing is that much of this area is all public land and won't be devloped.  Even with that, private land here is still pretty cheap compared to buying lots in the city.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-14 04:29:13 PM  

tricycleracer: I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


golfclap.gif
 
2013-03-14 04:31:50 PM  

NuclearPenguins: cman: I can't find meth. I think meth is one of those moral panic type drugs in this state and the actual amount of meth is quite low.

As for Oxy, sheesh, too many people are on that shiat.

Have you been to Biddeford or Lewiston lately?


I live in Lewiston
 
2013-03-14 04:33:00 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: You lost me here.


If you like the area or have an attachement to it, you will do what you can to make a living where you can without having to move away from it.
 
2013-03-14 04:36:32 PM  

RocketRay: Interesting they pick a picture of Bodie.


Agreed, didn't it die out about 100 years ago?  I visited in '93, but don't quite remember the saying - "They have to let me in heaven, because I've already been to Bode" or some such saying.
 
2013-03-14 04:38:44 PM  

big_hed: All I see is COLD!!!! Brrrrr.....


We get all the seasons here.  Almost winter, winter, still winter and misquitoes.

Actually, it is not that bad here.
 
2013-03-14 04:40:35 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.


Maybe in some places.  However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.
 
2013-03-14 04:41:54 PM  

HeadLever: arethereanybeernamesleft: You lost me here.

If you like the area or have an attachement to it, you will do what you can to make a living where you can without having to move away from it.


I know.  I was just joking, because I'm lucky enough to make a living off of the land that I'm attached to.
 
2013-03-14 04:42:56 PM  

HeadLever: Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.

Maybe in some places.  However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.


The other issue is technology, it just takes fewer people to farm than it used to, so farmers have fewer children, the children don't have to stay and work on the farm, so they move away.
 
2013-03-14 04:43:07 PM  

m00: "...new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics"

wait, what?


Haha!  I saw that.  Oh yeah, "If you build it, they will come."  That's what they want Hispanics for; meat packing, animal slaughterhouses, landscaping companies, and any kind of factory.
 
2013-03-14 04:46:03 PM  
Due to the headline, I was expecting Las Vegas to be mentioned some where. I've never been there and don't have anything against it; I just think it's weird that it's in the middle of the desert.

Where I live, potable water is about a buck per 100 cubic feet, but the 5 to 6 month winters suck.
 
2013-03-14 04:49:11 PM  
Census data shows that America's economic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.
 
2013-03-14 04:50:52 PM  

Rapmaster2000: d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...

I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?


I grew up and lived just East of Kokomo by about 30 minutes. Yes, there is nothing. I got the hell out of there the first opportunity I got.
It's sad that Kokomo was referred to as a big city. Interesting fact tho: for a time, Kokomo had the highest number of restaurants per capita of anywhere in the nation. Don't know nor care if that's still true.
 
2013-03-14 04:53:56 PM  

HeadLever: Rapmaster2000: Not for food. Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.

However, when these places are making more money, they can also spend more and support more of a population as well.


In what?  Restaurants?  Services?

Population is driven by jobs, jobs are driven by demand.  Increased farm mechanization reduces demand for farm jobs.

You cited Nevada (mining) and ND (oil).  Those are still labor intensive industries still.  Farm labor  demand has been falling for 50 years.

So no... there is no "maybe in some places" for corn farmers.
 
2013-03-14 04:54:13 PM  

RocketRay: Bodi


Yes. Yes it is. The populated side too. At least is was the last time I was there
 
2013-03-14 04:56:14 PM  

headncloudz: The article says that these counties should attract "new development such as a meatpacking plant to attract young Hispanics ". Wow, that kind of sounds racist.


It is, but these crappy paying jobs like Hispanics because they work, don't complain, don't strike, and will take less pay.  As a Hispanic, I used to get infuriated by this line of thought that penetrates so much of the country, as if none of us have abilities to do other kinds of work.
 
2013-03-14 04:56:18 PM  

logieal: Rapmaster2000: d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...

I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?

I grew up and lived just East of Kokomo by about 30 minutes. Yes, there is nothing. I got the hell out of there the first opportunity I got.
It's sad that Kokomo was referred to as a big city. Interesting fact tho: for a time, Kokomo had the highest number of restaurants per capita of anywhere in the nation. Don't know nor care if that's still true.


Another town near there I thought was interesting was Logansport in that I drove through Logansport and I didn't see a single building that appeared to be newer than the 1970s.
 
2013-03-14 04:59:54 PM  

Fissile: Census data shows that America's ruraleconomic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.


FTFY.

1) Agriculture becomes automated, reducing rural populations and driving people away.
2) Cars mean that you can drive 60 miles to the nearest large town, instead of taking the wagon into the small town 5 miles away.
3) These things, combined with reallocated budgets, means that the anchor for a lot of the small towns (Post Office/school), can go away or be combined.
4) Without a reason to exist, the small town dies out.

Repeat all the way across the country.

/And then Step 5: Because transportation infrastructure sucks and too many people are moving to the large city, everyone spends thousands of dollars each month on terrible shoebox apartments 4 miles and 30+ minutes from work.
 
2013-03-14 05:00:51 PM  

d23: You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...


Rapmaster2000: I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?


I married a girl from Kokomo.  Her dad worked for Delco/Delphi.
I started dating the girl in '89-met her in Milwaukee.
Her brother went to Purdue--left for Colorado.
Her other brother went to Purdue--left for Chicago, then Boise.
Her sister went to Purdue--left for Colorado.

My wife has suggested many times over the years we should move to Carmel so I can work in Indianapolis.  Every time I ask her how many of her parent's kids got out of Dodge as soon as they could.  I also remind her I've known her since she was 22 and I have a vice-like memory of her stories about her childhood, before the passage of time turned those stories rosier than reality.

She finally gave up asking...
 
2013-03-14 05:04:47 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Another town near there I thought was interesting was Logansport in that I drove through Logansport and I didn't see a single building that appeared to be newer than the 1970s.


Ah yes... Logansport. Their high school 'mascot' or name or whatever was the Berries. So they were the Logansport Berries. I got called Logan Berry a lot.
 
2013-03-14 05:11:36 PM  

Tom_Slick: The other issue is technology, it just takes fewer people to farm than it used to, so farmers have fewer children, the children don't have to stay and work on the farm, so they move away.


Rapmaster2000: So no... there is no "maybe in some places" for corn farmers.


For midwest farming, you may be correct.  I have more experience here with ranching here in the intermountain west where more technology really does not necessarily translate into less labor.  Here, when ranchers are doing well, so are the hardware stores, vets, mechanics, etc.
 
2013-03-14 05:18:21 PM  
The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"
 
2013-03-14 05:28:29 PM  

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


That's right I was born there, but not a native since my parents were "from away"
 
2013-03-14 05:30:26 PM  

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


I did enjoy the local news in Bangor where they sent a reporter out to broadcast live from the scene of a burglary.  I thought it was quaint.  Getting shot and killed in Atlanta doesn't even make the news.
 
2013-03-14 05:33:31 PM  
"many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

This is a bad thing ? Here in Los Angeles it would be a wonderful place to live if we had about 5 million less people
 
2013-03-14 05:42:31 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Getting shot and killed in Atlanta doesn't even make the news.


It was quite a shock to my system when I moved from Maine to Atlanta and was watching the evening news in Atlanta one night and they were running a story on a convenience store robbery and stating "normally we don't report on these as they are commonplace but this time..."
 
2013-03-14 05:44:57 PM  
Where I grew up (and fled a looong time ago) - SE Wisconsin - that sort of semi-rural area between Madison and Milwaukee with lots of small of small towns would be totally dead or barely populated by old folks, but for the Mexicans who came in the mid- late 90's.

Really only some manufacturing industries left - many have remained.  Still lots of loud, hot and noisy low paying jobs that white folks don't want to do.

Who says America (or rather upper midwest) America is dying?
 
2013-03-14 05:48:16 PM  
As fuel gets more expensive, the only people left in rural areas will be people who actually have a reason to be in rural areas, as apposed to people who commute long distances for "lifestyle" reasons.   People in rural areas will be employed in agriculture, logging, mining, energy production and the like.  Rural areas won't  die so much as they will change.  Modern agricultural, mining and logging methods means that few people will be needed to do those jobs.  As for the rest,  trends point to more urbanization because that style of living is inherently more efficient.  NYC has very low per capita energy use.   What will be history is the suburbs, especially the outlying xburbs, burbs far away from water, or in very hot climes.   For those of you who sunk big money into vinyl-clad, particle-board McMansions out in Bumfark, Nowhere......what is that the French say?  Oh, yeah, SUCKERS.
 
2013-03-14 05:54:41 PM  
And when everyone lives in a city, indeed the world will be utopia.

Until sea levels rise, or food production declines, or panic sets in...
 
2013-03-14 06:04:55 PM  
It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.
 
2013-03-14 06:10:35 PM  

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


There are no jobs in Maine.
 
2013-03-14 06:11:00 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


As a Flint resident, I am okay with this.  It has been nice having less traffic congestion.  Nobody needs to feel the need to move here anytime soon.
 
2013-03-14 06:13:45 PM  

tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


Don't feel bad. NO is basically a shiat hole with a nice garden district and the French quarter. When it all floods again, we won't lose anything of value...again.
 
2013-03-14 06:16:25 PM  
I find it funny that everyone realizes young people are leaving old people behind, but nobody's asking why or to where nor why they're not sticking around (or are unable to)-- instead it's automatically "we need more immigrants" not "what are we doing wrong?" Hint: listen to young people and for once try to ignore the selfish/pissy demands of the old.
 
2013-03-14 06:18:21 PM  
Is there a link to the report?  I want to find the fastest shrinking-population counties
 
2013-03-14 06:22:06 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Um, what?

Go check Google's traffic map right now.  Unless you have to do anything involving 696 (at which point you should just be using 12 mile), or some of the sympathetic traffic jams from 696, the board is green.  At 6:00 on a weekday.

Name me one other city in the country that can match that.  Where rush hour is not 'utter gridlock', but 'Maybe I should stay off a single freeway (and Telegraph, since Telegraph goes from 4 lanes to 3 immediately after 2 major freeways dump into it, which is stupid)'.

/And once summer starts, the traffic will get even better since large numbers of people will decamp for the UP.
//Of course, I've lived in Boston, Seattle, and SF, and my one experience with other midwestern cities was driving through and around Chicago, when I had 3 interviews (2 in Chicago, 1 in Madison) and I drove from Detroit.  How does Chicago even function?
 
2013-03-14 06:37:26 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Not amusing: The U.S. and world economies founded on the concept that there must be continual and unlimited growth despite finite land and resources. Greed really does put the blinders on people.
 
2013-03-14 06:39:09 PM  

cman: tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.

Just wait until the "told ya so" folk get to spout their self-felatio when Manhattan is covered by the ocean.

/And seriously, San Francisco, you guys built your damn city on soft sand.


I would have shouted the second poster out of a bar as well. The port system from new orleans to baton rouge is the highest volume port system in the world.  new orleans has the highest volume port in that system.  say what you will, but new orleans' importance to commerce is a lot more important than the off chance that the city will need rebuilding once every 200 years and is more cost effective than moving 50 miles up river.  not to mention, the reason the city suffered so much is because the rest of the nation was enjoying all the benefits of cost effective shipping all the while refusing to pay the costs of maintaining the levee protection system (and disallowing louisiana from charging any kind of premium for the privilege)

it is not uncommon that the most important cities are near water.  it is not uncommon that water is dangerous.  the counties that are drying up are in the middle of no where.
 
2013-03-14 06:51:30 PM  
Hey Tardmitter, find a link that actually works for the 90% of the planet Earth that isn't merrica.
 
2013-03-14 07:04:25 PM  
Saying Michigan should be a top destination for legal immigrants to come and boost Detroit and other struggling areas, Snyder made a special appeal: "Please come here."

Not on a bet. Port Huron? Yes. Detroit? No.
 
2013-03-14 07:16:22 PM  

HeadLever: ladyfortuna: That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs.

I agree.  Thing is that much of this area is all public land and won't be devloped.  Even with that, private land here is still pretty cheap compared to buying lots in the city.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x329]


I suspect that if certain climate change predictions come true, much of the private resident population of those western states is going to flee for states that have more water, food, etc. - leaving lots of even cheaper land behind. Obviously this is up in the air, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
2013-03-14 07:19:13 PM  
sad to say but i almost prefer the empty falling down farms and vacant store-fronts as opposed to omaha's white flight

them suburbanites are just dumb

and cornhusker fans

same thing
 
2013-03-14 07:40:30 PM  

ladyfortuna: I suspect that if certain climate change predictions come true, much of the private resident population of those western states is going to flee for states that have more water, food, etc. - leaving lots of even cheaper land behind.


Thing is that our precipitations and snowpack levels have not been significantly lower.   For the most part, it has been pretty average.  The water usage on the other hand.....
 
2013-03-14 08:29:47 PM  
I'm kind of surprised, I figured the rise of the internet and prevalence of easy shipping options would inject new money into areas that could never reach world markets before.
 
2013-03-14 09:23:37 PM  

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


That's some first class stupid right there. Oh. I see your from Florida. Carry on!
 
2013-03-14 10:44:00 PM  

EngineerAU: tricycleracer: I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.

If you go to a bar to criticize the life choices of drunk strangers, you're going to have a bad time.


Depends on your size.
 
2013-03-14 10:48:51 PM  

Rapmaster2000: HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]

Some of us raised in the rural areas couldn't wait to get the fark out.

[www.wargearstudio.com image 700x525]
This is how most people see rural Indiana.  At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.


Bizzarely, I recongnized that is Indiana before I scrolled to the bottom...
 
2013-03-14 10:53:01 PM  
As someone born in rural bumblefark, I'm very happy to live near civilization now. Sure it sucks that starter homes are going for $600,000, but I'll take that any day over some strip mall shiat hole where fine dining means getting dressed up to go to Applebee's.

If I want to see nature, I'll fly there, snap some photos, and GTFO.
 
2013-03-14 11:12:39 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: If I want to see nature, I'll fly there, snap some photos, and GTFO.


Good for you. That attitude helps to keep the characteristics of the land just the way I like it.
 
2013-03-15 01:06:38 AM  

Hacker_X: xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!

I drove through WV last week. A large part of that state looks like a wasteland right now. Dead, brown, unpopulated. And lots of the areas that are populated look like they are falling apart. That includes the capital.


Born and raised.  I love it here, and I didn't appreciate it until I moved around a lot to different states/cities.  It's a beautiful state, though my area (outside of Pittsburgh) isn't as pretty as the rest of the state.  As opposed to the rest of the country where sure there's a Walgreens and McDonalds on every block but everything looks the same and has no sense of "home." People can be backwards at times but at least they don't look at you like you're a crazy person just because you try to exchange pleasantries.
 
2013-03-15 01:10:17 AM  
dv-ous:  families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Civilized parts? Yeah I can't imagine why some of us wouldn't want to join in on that
 
2013-03-15 01:30:07 AM  

Alonjar: I'm kind of surprised, I figured the rise of the internet and prevalence of easy shipping options would inject new money into areas that could never reach world markets before.


Rural broadband in the US is fiendishly expensive and buggy when it isn't entirely nonexistent. Wild Blue's satellite internet service has come a long way over the years, but none of us would mistake it for DSL or cable. Sadly, even though there's plenty of cell data coverage in most rural areas (at least the ones within sniffing distance of an Interstate), the usage fees are astronomical since AT&T and Verizon don't want people switching from DSL+LTE to LTE.
 
2013-03-15 01:55:19 AM  

piglet: Not amusing: The U.S. and world economies founded on the concept that there must be continual and unlimited growth despite finite land and resources. Greed really does put the blinders on people.


True, but not the way most people interpret that. Modern finance requires ever-expanding economic growth, which can happen a number of ways, including but by no means limited to...

1. Population growth (labor supply increases, resulting in more work that can be performed).
2. Increased resources (new supplies of affordable raw materials are found, which are converted into marginally useful goods).
3. Gains in efficiency and productivity (we learn to do more with less).

The Industrial Revolution was pretty much "all of the above" - population growth skyrocketed due to improvements in medicine and sanitation. At the same time, improvements in science and technology (along with a bit of the ol' ultraviolence in Africa) led to more resources being discovered and ultimately consumed. On top of that, gains in productivity made it possible for people to spend less time on the farm or traveling by foot and more time in cities building lots of stuff.

Nowadays, option 1 really isn't on the table anymore - the global population is starting to flatten out now that birth rates in poorer countries is starting to flatten out due to a combination of there being fewer poorer areas, increased distribution of contraceptives, and AIDS (more of that ol' ultraviolence in Africa). Mexican birth rates, for example, aren't going to be high enough to paper over below-replacement birth rates in the US and Canada for too much longer. Option 2, meanwhile, is also disappearing - the last time a large area of the world with easily accessible natural resources opened up was when the Cold War ended and western companies could use modern technology in former communist countries (there's a reason gas was <$1/gallon during the '90s). At this point, the only places left are either near-impossible to reach due to physical constraints (the Arctic, deep ocean, Africa), political constraints (much of the North American wilderness, almost all of Europe, Africa), or require staggering inputs of resources and energy in order to exploit effectively (tar sands, fracking, Africa).

That leaves option 3. We grow by doing more with less.

The good news is option 3 is pretty realistic, if a little slow. Modern cars, for example, are more powerful,  more fuel efficient, and infinitely more reliable than anything sold in the '70s. Computers... well, we all know how computing is going. Even manufacturing has progressed substantially - the reason manufacturing is returning to America is because it's cheaper to build robots in North Carolina and ship the resulting product to its chief market in the next state over than it is to build certain products in China, ship them across the Pacific, transport them over the several and myriad mountain ranges between San Francisco and eastern United States, and then finally get them where they need to be in the US. In short, continual technological improvement will lead to improved standards of living, which will be interpreted as "growth".

Having said that, in order to achieve continual technological improvement, we have to be able to accumulate sufficient capital to build improved productive capacity and the improved productive capacity has to achieve a reasonable rate of return against the capital that was expended. Unfortunately, instead of investing in capital creation, our finance industry has instead decided they can enjoy greater rates of return (in the short term) by exchanging pieces of paper with one another and convincing everyone else to do the same. The sad part is they're absolutely right... in the short term.

/At least our financial instruments are more efficient.
//They're destroying more with less!
 
2013-03-15 03:01:32 AM  

HeadLever: ladyfortuna: I suspect that if certain climate change predictions come true, much of the private resident population of those western states is going to flee for states that have more water, food, etc. - leaving lots of even cheaper land behind.

Thing is that our precipitations and snowpack levels have not been significantly lower.   For the most part, it has been pretty average.  The water usage on the other hand.....


Usage, sure, but the predictions forecast in the next ~20 years or so that midwest/west states are going to have a lot less water to draw from overall. Again, obviously this is all speculation, but last year's winter was CRAZY weird for western NY, and I hope never to see the like again. The bugs were terrible all summer and the trees got all farked up because they were confused by the high temperatures.
 
2013-03-15 07:48:26 AM  

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


Toyota builds its cars in the US. GM is mostly in Mexico. So what are you talking about?
 
2013-03-15 08:37:08 AM  

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?

Toyota builds its cars in the US. GM is mostly in Mexico. So what are you talking about?


So does Honda, VW, BMW and Mecedes
 
2013-03-15 10:54:56 AM  

ladyfortuna: Usage, sure, but the predictions forecast in the next ~20 years or so that midwest/west states are going to have a lot less water to draw from overall. Again, obviously this is all speculation,


Exactly, they have been saying that for 15 years now and it still has not come true here.  Here is a good representation of the streamflows for a good bellweather river here in Idaho.  As bad years go, the late 80 and mid 30s were the worst, while the early 60s and 2000s were good decades.  In any case, there is no downward trend in this streamflow measurement.  Will it happen?  very possible.  However, so far their predictions are not coming to true.

As a note, the Columbia River basin has had enough water running through its hydro plants that they have had to shut down the wind farms because there was too much power on the grid.
 
2013-03-15 10:55:50 AM  

d23: mcreadyblue: Eventually, low housing prices might draw people back if telecommuting ever becomes mainstream.

As the new idiot CEO of Yahoo is blamed, telecommuting is only for the important people.

For everyone else in the 99.8% it's corporate feudalism.  Wait for the company dorms and the company stores... they're right around the bend again.


As a software dev working three simultaneous remote development contracts, it's nice to discover that I am now "an important people".

I'll say that it is nice that I can enjoy a commute of 20 feet from my bed to my desk (I do make detours to the bathroom and kitchen though so it's more like 100 feet or so once all is said and done).  It's not so nice that I work from 7:30AM to around 6:30PM most days.  However, today is Friday and my typical Friday habit is to step away from the desk around 4PM and head downstairs and pour myself a Buffalo Trace neat and then head back to the desk to tie up the week's effort with a little bit of leisure.
 
2013-03-15 05:03:50 PM  

Crewmannumber6: IAMTHEINTARWEBS: vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?

Toyota builds its cars in the US. GM is mostly in Mexico. So what are you talking about?

So does Honda, VW, BMW and Mecedes


I just bought an American-made car--a nearly-100%-domestic-parts Camry.

The factories may have moved away from Detroit, but we still build a ton of automobiles.
 
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