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(Huffington Post)   MSNBC, the liberalist liberal network that ever libbed, just libbed it up even more with their liberal primetime liberalism   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 155
    More: Cool, MSNBC, Brian Stelter, Harry Smith, Richard Engel, Luke Russert, Georgia Aquarium, Hoda Kotb, NBC Studios  
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4697 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Mar 2013 at 2:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 10:46:39 AM  
Awesome. Ed Schultz is farking unbearable, and Hayes is the best host on TV.
 
2013-03-14 10:53:13 AM  
I've only ever listened to Ed Schultz on the radio and I had no idea who he was. I remember thinking I accidentally tuned into Rush Limbaugh's show except the broadcast seemed to be emanating from Bizarro World where Rush was saying the exact opposite of everything he had ever said before.
 
2013-03-14 10:53:30 AM  
Sounds good, if they put a podcast on iTunes for me.
 
2013-03-14 10:56:12 AM  
Great news. Chris Hayes' show was already the best political show on TV. Glad to see him bumped up to primetime.
 
2013-03-14 10:57:01 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Great news. Chris Hayes' show was already the best political show on TV. Glad to see him bumped up to primetime.


One thing I haven't seen is what's happening with his weekend show. I assume it's kaput, but that sucks. I liked watching that.
 
2013-03-14 10:58:44 AM  
Schultz would be fine if he wasn't such a loudmouthed dunderhead.
 
2013-03-14 11:09:30 AM  
Interesting:

pbs.twimg.com
 
2013-03-14 11:19:07 AM  

DamnYankees: Interesting:


There was a funny moment in Hayes' and Coates' talk in Cambridge a few months back.

Hayes: I have a rule, no more than one (or two, can't recall exactly) white male per show.
Audience member: Including yourself?
Hayes: ...Yes...er, no. You got me.
 
2013-03-14 11:49:35 AM  
Excellent.  Will miss UP on weekend mornings, though.
 
2013-03-14 12:00:32 PM  

DamnYankees: One thing I haven't seen is what's happening with his weekend show. I assume it's kaput, but that sucks. I liked watching that.


I saw a Politico article that suggested Ezra Klein might take over the show.
 
2013-03-14 12:01:29 PM  

Type_Hard: DamnYankees: One thing I haven't seen is what's happening with his weekend show. I assume it's kaput, but that sucks. I liked watching that.

I saw a Politico article that suggested Ezra Klein might take over the show.


Blerrrrgh.
 
2013-03-14 12:27:30 PM  

exick: I've only ever listened to Ed Schultz on the radio and I had no idea who he was. I remember thinking I accidentally tuned into Rush Limbaugh's show except the broadcast seemed to be emanating from Bizarro World where Rush was saying the exact opposite of everything he had ever said before.


No, that would be Norm Goldman. Same tactics, different side.
 
2013-03-14 12:28:17 PM  
Chris Hayes?  Who's going to keep an eye on his box van that says "Free Candy" on the side to make sure the kids inside don't escape?
 
2013-03-14 12:51:25 PM  
It's good to see MSNBC hasn't seen any of the pitfalls that come with producing biased political talk programming.
 
2013-03-14 12:55:55 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's good to see MSNBC hasn't seen any of the pitfalls that come with producing biased political talk programming.


What do you mean.
 
2013-03-14 01:06:07 PM  

DamnYankees: What do you mean.


When your message becomes stale or untrustworthy to the viewership, the viewership drop off is sharp and sudden. Fox News is currently feeling these effects post-election.
 
2013-03-14 01:07:39 PM  

WTF Indeed: DamnYankees: What do you mean.

When your message becomes stale or untrustworthy to the viewership, the viewership drop off is sharp and sudden. Fox News is currently feeling these effects post-election.


So you weren't being sarcastic?
 
2013-03-14 01:11:27 PM  
Excellent.  Hayes is WAAAAAYY better than Schultz
 
2013-03-14 01:12:56 PM  
This is the only person doing news on in the US that I can stand. This is excellent news.
 
2013-03-14 01:13:02 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Excellent.  Hayes is WAAAAAYY better than Schultz


I prefer Ezra Klein, but yea I have to agree.
 
2013-03-14 01:13:34 PM  

what_now: This is the only person doing news on in the US that I can stand. This is excellent news.


To be fair, I don't think Hayes is a reporter, he doesn't really do 'news'. I don't think he'd even claim to.
 
2013-03-14 01:13:53 PM  
i.huffpost.com

Rachel Maddow has TWO shows now?
 
2013-03-14 01:15:46 PM  

DamnYankees: what_now: This is the only person doing news on in the US that I can stand. This is excellent news.

To be fair, I don't think Hayes is a reporter, he doesn't really do 'news'. I don't think he'd even claim to.


Valid.
 
2013-03-14 01:16:23 PM  
I feel uncomfortable about the tag "cool" because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more smarmy sanctimonious television programming.

I'm just farking with ya guys.
 
2013-03-14 01:16:35 PM  
Biased Political Programming share very similar market forces, no matter the content or slant.  Biased Political Programming works because they "inform" their demographic about the world with their our slant.  The problem with liberal programming is that they are marketing their shows to a demographic that is both educated and politically active. The problem with having an educated demographic is that it's harder to impress upon the viewer the slant.  Fox News has an easier time with this because their demographic is not as educated, therefore it's easier to impress upon them.

Having a softer, more wonky approach to biased programming is a novel approach, but they still run into the same problems the loud, annoying programs run into.
 
2013-03-14 01:17:23 PM  

gilgigamesh: Lionel Mandrake: Excellent.  Hayes is WAAAAAYY better than Schultz

I prefer Ezra Klein, but yea I have to agree.


Ezra's awesome.  Wasn't there some talk of him getting a show?  Or does this mean he didn't get it?
 
2013-03-14 01:17:48 PM  

DamnYankees: Ed Schultz is farking unbearable


Can't believe he made it in primetime this long.
 
2013-03-14 01:17:59 PM  

WTF Indeed: Having a softer, more wonky approach to biased programming is a novel approach, but they still run into the same problems the loud, annoying programs run into.


Like what? I feel like this is an easy thing to claim in the abstract, but difficult to really analogize in the specifics.
 
2013-03-14 01:18:48 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: gilgigamesh: Lionel Mandrake: Excellent.  Hayes is WAAAAAYY better than Schultz

I prefer Ezra Klein, but yea I have to agree.

Ezra's awesome.  Wasn't there some talk of him getting a show?  Or does this mean he didn't get it?


I don't get the Ezra Klein thing. I mean, he's fine. His blog has useful charts. But he's never struck me as particularly insightful. I almost never come across something he says which really changes the way I think about things.
 
2013-03-14 01:19:01 PM  

DamnYankees: Interesting:

[pbs.twimg.com image 850x661]


In fairness to the rest of the shows, most of the people in positions of power and influence (that a journalist might want to talk to) are white male.  No way around it.
 
2013-03-14 01:20:40 PM  

wxboy: DamnYankees: Interesting:

[pbs.twimg.com image 850x661]

In fairness to the rest of the shows, most of the people in positions of power and influence (that a journalist might want to talk to) are white male.  No way around it.


Of course there's a way around it - don't have so many of them on. It's an active choice. I'm sure Chris Hayes could have tons of white, male Democratic congressmen and state reps if he wanted to. But he makes a choice.
 
2013-03-14 01:22:22 PM  

DamnYankees: So you weren't being sarcastic?


No. I don't like MSNBC. I despise the entire notion of biased political programming since all it does is further the level of distrust and anger that keeps political compromise from happening.
 
2013-03-14 01:23:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Lionel Mandrake: gilgigamesh: Lionel Mandrake: Excellent.  Hayes is WAAAAAYY better than Schultz

I prefer Ezra Klein, but yea I have to agree.

Ezra's awesome.  Wasn't there some talk of him getting a show?  Or does this mean he didn't get it?

I don't get the Ezra Klein thing. I mean, he's fine. His blog has useful charts. But he's never struck me as particularly insightful. I almost never come across something he says which really changes the way I think about things.


I just prefer his demeanor as a host. He seems more comfortable and confident in his own skin when talking into a camera.

Chris Hayes comes off as a little too flighty for my tastes. Not intellectually flighty, just kind of uncomfortable on TV. I don't know. Its an aesthetic thing.
 
2013-03-14 01:25:46 PM  

WTF Indeed: DamnYankees: So you weren't being sarcastic?

No. I don't like MSNBC. I despise the entire notion of biased political programming since all it does is further the level of distrust and anger that keeps political compromise from happening.


Wait. So you like Chris Hayes or you dont?
 
2013-03-14 01:26:28 PM  

gilgigamesh: I just prefer his demeanor as a host. He seems more comfortable and confident in his own skin when talking into a camera.

Chris Hayes comes off as a little too flighty for my tastes. Not intellectually flighty, just kind of uncomfortable on TV. I don't know. Its an aesthetic thing.


You're right, it's an aesthetic thing. I find Klein very uncomfortable on camera and I think Hayes is much smoother!
 
2013-03-14 01:27:24 PM  

WTF Indeed: DamnYankees: So you weren't being sarcastic?

No. I don't like MSNBC. I despise the entire notion of biased political programming since all it does is further the level of distrust and anger that keeps political compromise from happening.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.

IMHO the problem in modern TV news is an attempt to appear artificially objective and present "both sides", when often one side is reality and the other side is derived from chain emails.
 
2013-03-14 01:28:12 PM  

DamnYankees: wxboy: DamnYankees: Interesting:

[pbs.twimg.com image 850x661]

In fairness to the rest of the shows, most of the people in positions of power and influence (that a journalist might want to talk to) are white male.  No way around it.

Of course there's a way around it - don't have so many of them on. It's an active choice. I'm sure Chris Hayes could have tons of white, male Democratic congressmen and state reps if he wanted to. But he makes a choice.


Well, I meant if you want the most powerful people on your show (say, the chairman of a Senate committee), chances are you're getting white males.  If you want diversity on your show, you're going to have to dig deeper.
 
2013-03-14 01:28:13 PM  

DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: I just prefer his demeanor as a host. He seems more comfortable and confident in his own skin when talking into a camera.

Chris Hayes comes off as a little too flighty for my tastes. Not intellectually flighty, just kind of uncomfortable on TV. I don't know. Its an aesthetic thing.

You're right, it's an aesthetic thing. I find Klein very uncomfortable on camera and I think Hayes is much smoother!


Yeah, ok. Its definitely a YMMV thing.
 
2013-03-14 01:28:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Awesome. Ed Schultz is farking unbearable, and Hayes is the best host on TV.


Damn straight, DamnYankees. Now if we can get Ezra Klein to replace that gasbag Lawrence o'Donnell, MSNBC will have an absurdly brutal evening line-up.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:51 PM  

wxboy: Well, I meant if you want the most powerful people on your show (say, the chairman of a Senate committee), chances are you're getting white males.  If you want diversity on your show, you're going to have to dig deeper.


Well ya, that's the point. Those other shows are bigger whores for 'power guests' and have little interest in whether their guests actually have interesting things to say.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:57 PM  
On the other hand, MSNBC's prime time block will now have a much more uniform feel, with nerdy intellectual Hayes being followed by nerdy intellectual Rachel Maddow.

Good.

As the Times' Brian Stelter noted, Hayes will be the youngest of all the cable news hosts on any network. He will also be perhaps the most unabashedly progressive host of any of the three major outlets.
Gooder.
 
2013-03-14 01:30:59 PM  

gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.


I think just calling it "bias" is a little weird. It's just a worldview - everyone has one by definition. There's no way to have a show without a bias of some kind or another.
 
2013-03-14 01:31:13 PM  

gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.


Apparently you've never understood what "Scientific Method" means.
 
2013-03-14 01:31:50 PM  

Car_Ramrod: As the Times' Brian Stelter noted, Hayes will be the youngest of all the cable news hosts on any network. He will also be perhaps the most unabashedly progressive host of any of the three major outlets.
Gooder.


Not sure I agree with that. I don't know how Maddow could be more progressive if she tried. She's just a little less abstract and intellectual about it.
 
2013-03-14 01:33:24 PM  

DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.

I think just calling it "bias" is a little weird. It's just a worldview - everyone has one by definition. There's no way to have a show without a bias of some kind or another.


Right. exactly my point. Pretending you are presenting objective news without bias is one of the great fallacies of modern reporting. And if in pursuit of that you present something that is a flat out untruth as "one side" of a legitimate debate, that in and of itself is bias.
 
2013-03-14 01:34:46 PM  

gilgigamesh: DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.

I think just calling it "bias" is a little weird. It's just a worldview - everyone has one by definition. There's no way to have a show without a bias of some kind or another.

Right. exactly my point. Pretending you are presenting objective news without bias is one of the great fallacies of modern reporting. And if in pursuit of that you present something that is a flat out untruth as "one side" of a legitimate debate, that in and of itself is bias.


And it also hurts real criticism, because now instead of examining the contents of someone's worldview, we examine whether you even have one. Because having one is bad, it doesn't matter as much what the actual content is.
 
2013-03-14 01:35:21 PM  

WTF Indeed: gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.

Apparently you've never understood what "Scientific Method" means.


I know very well what scientific method is.

But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, does it?
 
2013-03-14 01:36:55 PM  

gilgigamesh: WTF Indeed: gilgigamesh: There's absolutely nothing wrong with bias, as long as there is a fundamental commitment to truth.

Apparently you've never understood what "Scientific Method" means.

I know very well what scientific method is.

But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, does it?


I suppose I should clarify that I was obviously talking about bias in journalism, since you kinda stripped my quote out of that context there.
 
2013-03-14 01:39:10 PM  

gilgigamesh: But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, does it?


Fundamental Truths are reached in spite of bias, not with them.  In fact, the very definition of a liberal education states:

a liberal education produces persons who are open-minded and free from provincialism, dogma, preconception, and ideology; conscious of their opinions and judgments; reflective of their actions; and aware of their place in the social and natural worlds.

Bias, in all it's forms, isinherently anti-liberal.
 
2013-03-14 01:40:15 PM  

WTF Indeed: Bias, in all it's forms, isinherently anti-liberal.


That's a little broad. i mean, I have a bias against being stabbed. I don't think it's a bad thing to want not to be stabbed. I know that's kind of extreme, but so is saying all biases are inherently bad.
 
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