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(CNN)   The new pope, a humble man of the people, just received a new $565,000 magic car   (cnn.com) divider line 175
    More: Obvious, bulletproof glass, John Paul II, state visit, Pope Paul VI, Mercedes-Benz, pope  
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11741 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 11:12 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 10:38:27 AM  
When John Paul died in 2005, this Popemobile was put on display in a Philippine church and became a pilgrimage destination for the country's Catholics who couldn't afford to go to the Vatican for the burial ceremony. It's probably the only time a car built in the Philippines has ever been worshipped.

lulz
 
2013-03-14 10:53:46 AM  
They see him popin', they be hatin'
 
2013-03-14 10:57:54 AM  
Yeah, they're not going to let him keep taking the bus to work.
 
2013-03-14 10:58:28 AM  
What the f**k is he supposed to toot around on - an old upright bike?
 
2013-03-14 10:59:21 AM  

oldfarthenry: What the f**k is he supposed to toot around on - an old upright bike?


Heh... a popecycle?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 11:05:05 AM  
I think he needs something more compact and portable.

www.tonecartoons.co.uk
 
2013-03-14 11:06:14 AM  
When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.
 
2013-03-14 11:06:34 AM  
Subby must be a Protestant.
 
2013-03-14 11:07:16 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: oldfarthenry: What the f**k is he supposed to toot around on - an old upright bike?

Heh... a popecycle?


I imagine he'd get cold real fast getting around town on that...
 
2013-03-14 11:10:33 AM  
Would you rather they resume carrying him around on that chair?
 
2013-03-14 11:11:22 AM  

xanadian: MaudlinMutantMollusk: oldfarthenry: What the f**k is he supposed to toot around on - an old upright bike?

Heh... a popecycle?

I imagine he'd get cold real fast getting around town on that...


Yeah, but he'd probably enjoy all the licking he'd get
 
2013-03-14 11:14:48 AM  
He should sell it and then that would fix all the poor peoples' problems.
 
2013-03-14 11:14:52 AM  
Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?
 
2013-03-14 11:14:59 AM  
Extortion in the name of the lord is a profitable business.
 
2013-03-14 11:15:04 AM  
Batman is unimpressed.
 
2013-03-14 11:15:22 AM  
Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.
 
2013-03-14 11:15:46 AM  

xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.


God will protect him. Right?
 
2013-03-14 11:16:15 AM  
Probably recieves more death threats than a black president.

Armored vehicles designed to protect the occupant are expensive.
 
2013-03-14 11:16:43 AM  
Company car. Nothing to see here.

But if you lift up the floormats you'll see that it's made entirely of pre-pubescent scrotums.
 
2013-03-14 11:16:52 AM  
When death threats you receive, humble you may not so be
 
2013-03-14 11:18:10 AM  

OddLlama: xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.

God will protect him. Right?


God helps those who help themselves. It'll look like it's the armor stopping the bullets, but it'll really be Jebus.
 
2013-03-14 11:18:28 AM  
The bullets are real. Your God is not.

bp3.blogger.com
 
2013-03-14 11:19:04 AM  
The Pope is the head of a sovereign nation and represents a billion people. He lives in a city that is effectively one huge golden artifact. He's going to have some fancy stuff.
 
2013-03-14 11:20:21 AM  
seems like that money (along with the billions the church keeps in it's little hide-away accounts could be better spent, you know... helping the people that fall for their little stories.

it's just like george carlin said -- god is all knowing, all poweful, but he's TERRIBLE with money.
 
2013-03-14 11:20:26 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: They see him popin', they be hatin'


Patrolin', trying to catch him riding dirty?
 
2013-03-14 11:20:28 AM  
Jeez, subby.  Would you rather he ride in a 1961 Lincoln Model 74A convertible?
 
2013-03-14 11:21:09 AM  

WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.


Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.
 
2013-03-14 11:21:55 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: They see him popin', they be hattin'


www.clicket.com
 
2013-03-14 11:22:09 AM  

MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?


mccallcl: The Pope is the head of a sovereign nation and represents a billion people. He lives in a city that is effectively one huge golden artifact. He's going to have some fancy stuff.


This.

subby, this headline is bad and you should feel bad

/former Catholic
//newly purchased bling/accroutrements (coughredpradascough) is stupid and suspicious; the effing Popemobile not so much
 
2013-03-14 11:22:20 AM  

mccallcl: The Pope is the head of a sovereign nation and represents a billion people. He lives in a city that is effectively one huge golden artifact. He's going to have some fancy stuff.


What a golden artifact may look like:

www.bloomberg.com

/Wasn't particularly thrilled at all
//I mean, the Pope is just another authoritatian figurehead
///But with fancier headgear
 
2013-03-14 11:22:30 AM  
Did they even CONSIDER...

cdn.buzznet.com
 
2013-03-14 11:22:35 AM  
This is not surprising, as the pope is part of a pentavirate of the richest people in the world, along with the Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys, and Colonel Sanders before he went tets-up.
 
2013-03-14 11:22:47 AM  
can't help but noting that according to the article he already turned it down at least once...
 
2013-03-14 11:22:59 AM  

xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.


Yup, a bullet proof car is in order.

Why? Because bullets are real.
 
2013-03-14 11:23:12 AM  

OddLlama: God will protect him. Right?


He is. Who do you think gave man the ability to think about things like designing vehicles that can stop a bullet or bomb from injuring the vehicles occupants?
 
2013-03-14 11:23:33 AM  

Counter_Intelligent: Jeez, subby.  Would you rather he ride in a 1961 Lincoln Model 74A convertible?


With the top down? Better avoid school book depositories.
 
2013-03-14 11:23:46 AM  
But, ya see, even with a half million dollar car, he's still poor next to Jesus who is richer than 100x every man and woman to ever live.
 
2013-03-14 11:24:03 AM  

Counter_Intelligent: Jeez, subby.  Would you rather he ride in a 1961 Lincoln Model 74A convertible?


Only if they put up the bubble top. It may rain, after all.
 
2013-03-14 11:24:31 AM  
I think the most important issue here is this: The guy is suspected (or known) to have been playing along with the Argentinian military regime, and did not say a word when two fellow Jesuits were arrested by the secret police.

But then again, the last guy also had some issues, and it's hard to go beyond the hype of John Paul II.
 
2013-03-14 11:26:07 AM  

LordOfThePings: Did they even CONSIDER...

[cdn.buzznet.com image 500x375]


I'm pretty sure they have a few of those, down in the Vatican Vault.

That, and dragon bones, the Iron Throne, the One Ring, the original version of the Star Wars Christmas Special, and my left sock.
 
2013-03-14 11:26:29 AM  

MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?



The President (at least this one, unlike the last guy) doesn't claim to have a direct communication line to god.
 
2013-03-14 11:26:56 AM  

CygnusDarius: The guy is suspected (or known) to have been playing along with the Argentinian military regime, and did not say a word when two fellow Jesuits were arrested by the secret police.


You know who else played along with military regimes and even helped them arrest people and confiscate their possessions?

/Soros
//drink
 
2013-03-14 11:27:35 AM  
Wait. You mean heads of state ride around in vehicles with lots of expensive security extras?  When did this start happening?  I gotta crawl out from under my rock more often.
 
2013-03-14 11:28:24 AM  
when you put money in the basket this Sunday, you're chipping in for gas money
 
2013-03-14 11:28:42 AM  
And not a fark was given that day.

/by me
//oatmeal's done, time for second breakfast
 
2013-03-14 11:29:16 AM  
FTFA:

However, Pope Francis -- known to opt for public transport in his home town of Buenos Aires -- refused the car that had been prepared for him after his election on Wednesday.
Instead of traveling from the Sistine Chapel to the Santa Marta residence in a car carrying the license plate SCV1 (Vatican City 1), he jumped on the bus alongside the other cardinals.


/derp
//i want a pope mobile
 
2013-03-14 11:29:19 AM  

Giltric: CygnusDarius: The guy is suspected (or known) to have been playing along with the Argentinian military regime, and did not say a word when two fellow Jesuits were arrested by the secret police.

You know who else played along with military regimes and even helped them arrest people and confiscate their possessions?

/Soros
//drink


Is this the game where we all end up blaming the Jews/Lizards/Reverse Vampires and their never-ending conspiracy to bring down the Christian White Man exemplary gestalt that are 'muricans? If so, I want out, last time we did that, I woke up in a brothel next to a goat and a honneycomb.
 
2013-03-14 11:29:31 AM  

WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.


Yeah, it's going to be VERY interesting to have one of "God's Marines" as Pope.

greywoolfetarot.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-14 11:29:39 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

Leave the new Pope alone!
 
2013-03-14 11:29:51 AM  

vpb: I think he needs something more compact and portable.

[www.tonecartoons.co.uk image 850x675]


PON-TIFI-CATE!!
 
2013-03-14 11:30:10 AM  

Raharu: MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?


The President (at least this one, unlike the last guy) doesn't claim to have a direct communication line to god.


Tangentially related cool story bro:

My English comp 2 teacher had a direct line to god in his classroom. He was....different.
 
2013-03-14 11:30:12 AM  

Raharu: MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?


The President (at least this one, unlike the last guy) doesn't claim to have a direct communication line to god.


I don't think the new guy is exactly ecstatic about all this.  People are making it sound like he was given the Vatican checkbook and tooled himself right down to the Bugatti dealership.  He prefers the bus.  Security prefers to not have a heart attack.  Somewhere in the middle, they're going to sort it out.

/not catholic
//not looking for ginned up excuses to shiatfit either.
 
2013-03-14 11:30:15 AM  

snowybunting: This is not surprising, as the pope is part of a pentavirate of the richest people in the world, along with the Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys, and Colonel Sanders before he went tets-up.


You forgot the Build-A-Bear Group.
 
2013-03-14 11:30:38 AM  
Boy an event like this brings all the trolls out from under their rocks....
 
2013-03-14 11:31:24 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Yeah, they're not going to let him keep taking the bus to work.


that's the thing.  if he wasn't trying to dodge wingnuts trying to take him out now, he probably still would try to take the bus to work.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:24 AM  

SlothB77: Rev. Skarekroe: Yeah, they're not going to let him keep taking the bus to work.

that's the thing.  if he wasn't trying to dodge wingnuts trying to take him out now, he probably still would try to take the bus to work.


This.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:33 AM  
<b>FTFA: One of the first questions many people ask when they start a new job is: what type of car will I get? </b>

No, nobody ever really asks that CNN...
 
2013-03-14 11:32:37 AM  

Ukab the Great: The bullets are real. Your God is not.

[bp3.blogger.com image 400x397]


CCCCCCRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNGGG G GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Y SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
 
2013-03-14 11:32:38 AM  
It's a 2007, so it's slightly used.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:41 AM  

OddLlama: xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.

God will protect him. Right?


God is protecting him. God made sure he got a bullet proof car.
 
2013-03-14 11:34:17 AM  
Subby is a dickhead.

Unless he's willing to throw his monkey shiat back on our famous leaders and expect Obama to tool around in a standard-issue Malibu.  But I think not.

/Did I mention subby is a dickhead?
 
2013-03-14 11:35:03 AM  
In the Pope's car, he feels safest of all, he can lock all the doors.
 
2013-03-14 11:35:04 AM  

fickenchucker: Subby is a dickhead.

Unless he's willing to throw his monkey shiat back on our famous leaders and expect Obama to tool around in a standard-issue Malibu.  But I think not.

/Did I mention subby is a dickhead?


You mad bro?
 
2013-03-14 11:36:18 AM  

MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?


At least the pope's car is payed for with money voluntarily donated by the faithful. The presidential limo is payed for with money seized at gunpoint. Don't pay your taxes and don't show up for court -- you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
2013-03-14 11:37:33 AM  
Yeah when two of the previous three predecessors are shot in office, security tends to happen.  Add in that it needs to be capable of presenting a state leader who averages 70 for six hour parades, give him a little break.
 
2013-03-14 11:38:13 AM  
I was hoping for
nexus404.com
 
2013-03-14 11:38:21 AM  
Wake me up when he brings back the Holy Crusades.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 11:39:46 AM  

Robert1966: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.


Yes, the Jesuits are wonderful.
 
2013-03-14 11:42:16 AM  

vpb: Robert1966: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.

Yes, the Jesuits are wonderful.


Does that not cause wonder?.
 
2013-03-14 11:43:37 AM  

Walker: fickenchucker: Subby is a dickhead.

Unless he's willing to throw his monkey shiat back on our famous leaders and expect Obama to tool around in a standard-issue Malibu.  But I think not.

/Did I mention subby is a dickhead?

You mad bro?


Yeah.  When anyone makes up something to complain about it pisses me off.  Right-wing, left-wing, it doesn't matter.  The world has enough to complain about that has a legitimate foundation of hypocrisy or unfairness.  Making crap up and advertising one's stupidity irritates me.  It reminds me subby is most likely old enough to vote and breed, which saddens me.
 
2013-03-14 11:46:19 AM  
And yet some dioceses are filing for bankruptcy protection to avoid paying victims of abuse.

Ride in style new Pope. Ride in style!
 
2013-03-14 11:46:23 AM  

vpb: Robert1966: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.

Yes, the Jesuits are wonderful.


Man, those 16th Century Jesuits were assholes.
 
2013-03-14 11:47:11 AM  

Giltric: OddLlama: God will protect him. Right?

He is. Who do you think gave man the ability to think about things like designing vehicles that can stop a bullet or bomb from injuring the vehicles occupants?


The same person who gave children the ability to prevent rape. Oh.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 11:47:39 AM  
fickenchucker:

Yeah.  When anyone makes up something to complain about it pisses me off.  Right-wing, left-wing, it doesn't matter.  The world has enough to complain about that has a legitimate foundation of hypocrisy or unfairness.  Making crap up and advertising one's stupidity irritates me.  It reminds me subby is most likely old enough to vote and breed, which saddens me.

So then, what do you think Fark is for?
 
2013-03-14 11:47:51 AM  

vpb: Robert1966: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.

Yes, the Jesuits are wonderful.


Wow in 500 years of existence there has been some controversy - that freaking changes EVERYTHING!

If we had to create a new group name for every organization that ever had a single member commit a crime or otherwise fail to be a 100% perfect human being we'd be forced to name groups the way we do stars because we would have used up every word in every language on the planet by now.

"Hello, my name is Fred, I belong to the Order of A2012E9G12"

Remember kids, once you make a single mistake you and everyone you ever associated with is, by extension, guilty till the end of time.  Please try to be perfect.
 
2013-03-14 11:48:20 AM  

fickenchucker: Walker: fickenchucker: Subby is a dickhead.

Unless he's willing to throw his monkey shiat back on our famous leaders and expect Obama to tool around in a standard-issue Malibu.  But I think not.

/Did I mention subby is a dickhead?

You mad bro?

Yeah.  When anyone makes up something to complain about it pisses me off.  Right-wing, left-wing, it doesn't matter.  The world has enough to complain about that has a legitimate foundation of hypocrisy or unfairness.  Making crap up and advertising one's stupidity irritates me.  It reminds me subby is most likely old enough to vote and breed, which saddens me.


{you must be new here .jpg}  Do yourself a favor and don't go into the politics tab.
 
2013-03-14 11:48:42 AM  
throw the money up in the air, and whatever God wants, he keeps!

/woo! habemus papam!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 11:49:34 AM  
Fizpez:

Remember kids, once you make a single mistake you and everyone you ever associated with is, by extension, guilty till the end of time.  Please try to be perfect.

Or at least stop being evil?
 
2013-03-14 11:52:55 AM  

WTF Indeed: vpb: Robert1966: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, after they do a little research and consider its implications, I'm sure their opinions will change. Despite never having done that about anything before, ever.

Yes, the Jesuits are wonderful.

Man, those 16th Century Jesuits were assholes.


The Church was entirely made up of assholes (with some exceptions), now it's mostly just dicks.
 
2013-03-14 11:53:00 AM  

vpb: Or at least stop being evil?


lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-03-14 11:53:46 AM  

WTF Indeed: Man, those 16th Century Jesuits were assholes.


Are they as bad as Illinois Jesuits? Cause man, those guys are assholes!
 
2013-03-14 11:54:01 AM  

vpb: Fizpez:

Remember kids, once you make a single mistake you and everyone you ever associated with is, by extension, guilty till the end of time.  Please try to be perfect.

Or at least stop being evil?


Oh, bless your heart.
 
2013-03-14 11:58:05 AM  
That would be an ecumenical matter!
 
2013-03-14 12:07:16 PM  

fickenchucker: Unless he's willing to throw his monkey shiat back on our famous leaders and expect Obama to tool around in a standard-issue Malibu. But I think not.


Though some on this site might disagree, I don't remember Obama claiming to be the infallible Earthly representative of an omnipotent being.  That's quite a masher to have in your corner to be afraid of puny secular slings and arrows.  It's rather similar to the devout going into hysterics when they think their lives are in real danger, or praying for the god to remove a terminal illness.  When they get down to where the cheese binds, there isn't a lot of real faith on display.

Giltric: OddLlama: God will protect him. Right?

He is. Who do you think gave man the ability to think about things like designing vehicles that can stop a bullet or bomb from injuring the vehicles occupants?


Thanks for helping us design that car to protect me from those weapons you helped us design!

media.comicvine.com
 
2013-03-14 12:11:34 PM  
Equally rudimentary was the Leyland Motors truck supplied for the pope's 1982 visit to the UK.
cache.gawker.com
I'm not sure 'rudimentary' is the word that springs to mind.
 
2013-03-14 12:13:19 PM  

vpb: When anyone makes up something to complain about it


Nabb1: When anyone makes up something to complain about



The key words are above.  I'm all for highlighting errors, wrongdoings, and just plain bad judgement calls by the Catholic Church or any other entity.  But even joking that the Pope doesn't need an armored vehicle is just plain dumb.
 
2013-03-14 12:14:29 PM  

Precision Boobery: Thanks for helping us design that car to protect me from those weapons you helped us design!



Oh, shut it! I just gave you the know-how, not the intent. Whatever you sods do with what you learn is not my bloody problem! Every time I try to talk to someone it's "sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy"...

gretachristina.typepad.com
 
2013-03-14 12:15:18 PM  

FarkinNortherner: Equally rudimentary was the Leyland Motors truck supplied for the pope's 1982 visit to the UK.
[cache.gawker.com image 494x364]
I'm not sure 'rudimentary' is the word that springs to mind.


Holy Monster-truck?.
 
2013-03-14 12:20:15 PM  

fickenchucker: vpb: When anyone makes up something to complain about it

Nabb1: When anyone makes up something to complain about


The key words are above.  I'm all for highlighting errors, wrongdoings, and just plain bad judgement calls by the Catholic Church or any other entity.  But even joking that the Pope doesn't need an armored vehicle is just plain dumb.


I agree.  My point was that manufactured outrage based on little more than perceived hypocrisy arising from even the tiniest minutiae are de rigeur for some folks on FARK, especially in the politics tab.
 
2013-03-14 12:21:50 PM  

vpb: fickenchucker:

Yeah.  When anyone makes up something to complain about it pisses me off.  Right-wing, left-wing, it doesn't matter.  The world has enough to complain about that has a legitimate foundation of hypocrisy or unfairness.  Making crap up and advertising one's stupidity irritates me.  It reminds me subby is most likely old enough to vote and breed, which saddens me.

So then, what do you think Fark is for?


Seriously? You're not even going to attempt an actual argument or discussion? I thought he had a good point.
 
2013-03-14 12:30:36 PM  
FTA: One of the first questions many people ask when they start a new job is: what type of car will I get?

I've had many jobs in my life, some low paying, some not.  I've never once asked this.  I'm sure I'm not alone.  With that in mind I think the use of the word many here is inappropriate.
 
2013-03-14 12:30:44 PM  

sethen320: vpb: fickenchucker:

Yeah.  When anyone makes up something to complain about it pisses me off.  Right-wing, left-wing, it doesn't matter.  The world has enough to complain about that has a legitimate foundation of hypocrisy or unfairness.  Making crap up and advertising one's stupidity irritates me.  It reminds me subby is most likely old enough to vote and breed, which saddens me.

So then, what do you think Fark is for?

Seriously? You're not even going to attempt an actual argument or discussion? I thought he had a good point.


www.troll.me
 
2013-03-14 12:31:55 PM  

OddLlama: xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.

God will protect him. Right?


Why? He didn't even protect Jesus.
 
2013-03-14 12:33:15 PM  

Mad_Radhu: WTF Indeed: Catholic haters are in for a shock when they realize what the Jesuits are all about.

Yeah, it's going to be VERY interesting to have one of "God's Marines" as Pope.

[greywoolfetarot.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]


Going to have to have a reformation first...

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-14 12:34:21 PM  
They're afraid he might die and go to Heaven.
 
2013-03-14 12:35:54 PM  
There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.
 
2013-03-14 12:42:57 PM  
Words of wisdom from St. Ignatius himself:  "I will believe that the white that I see is black if the hierarchical Church so defines it."

It will be business as usual for the Catholics.  No contraception, no abortion under ANY circumstances, and gays are an abomination.

/They've all got their heads in the sand
//ostracized by my family for not adhering to Catholic/Christian dogma
///seriously.  I have nieces and nephews who wouldn't know me if they saw me on the street cuz I'm bad
 
2013-03-14 12:47:33 PM  
I don't begrudge him the popemobile; man's a head of state and he's got to get around after all.

But I am already completely sick of the "oooo, he actually CARRIED his OWN luggage! And paid for his OWN coffee! He's just sooooo humble!!" press fawning, and its only been less than 24 hours.

Its gonna be a long papacy.
 
2013-03-14 01:00:31 PM  

Melvin Lovecraft: It will be business as usual for the Catholics. No contraception, no abortion under ANY circumstances, and gays are an abomination.


Because those are the only things that matter in the world.

/To Americans
 
2013-03-14 01:06:40 PM  

Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.


To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

Not that you get a medal for that or anything, undermining Christianity by pointing out the Theodicy problem isn't really new or exciting, it was logically invalidated centuries before Christianity was even a thing when a Greek philosopher pointed it out with regards to a similar local monotheistic cult.

Yes, that's right, even the people that thought their gods were a bunch of drunk idiots obsessed with sex and petty vengeance conclusively logically proved that their religion made more sense than yours.  Eat it, Catholics.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 01:12:57 PM  

fickenchucker: vpb: When anyone makes up something to complain about it

Nabb1: When anyone makes up something to complain about


The key words are above.  I'm all for highlighting errors, wrongdoings, and just plain bad judgement calls by the Catholic Church or any other entity.  But even joking that the Pope doesn't need an armored vehicle is just plain dumb.


Either that or they believe in a god that will protect them.
 
2013-03-14 01:13:26 PM  
And New York's archbishop just said on the Today Show this morning that Pope Francis took a bus back to the hotel with the rest of the cardinals instead of taking a private limo. You fail, subby.
 
2013-03-14 01:13:26 PM  

vpb: I think he needs something more compact and portable.


www.tonecartoons.co.uk

PONTIFICATE! PONTIFICATE! PONTIFICATE!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 01:14:22 PM  
sethen320:

Seriously? You're not even going to attempt an actual argument or discussion? I thought he had a good point.

About what?  The purpose of Fark?
 
2013-03-14 01:16:49 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.


I don't recall it every being part of Christian theology that there were any guarantees one would assuredly avoid an untimely death through a belief in God.  Even for Popes.  But, if that's working for you, stick with it.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 01:17:44 PM  

Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.


It wouldn't be for someone who doesn't believe in miracles or that the Pope is the Vicar of God on earth.  It's pretty good evidence that the people who claim to believe in those things don't believe in them all that much.
 
2013-03-14 01:18:34 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.


No it doesn't. It is a pretty well accepted tenet of Christianity that god created mankind with free will. Remember Adam and Eve? God cast them out of paradise because they chose to disobey him. Likewise, you can choose to reject Christ and go to hell.

I realize there are a lot of logical incongruities between free will of man and omnipotence of god. But there is no question that mankind having free will -- being able to choose whether or not to sin, or in this case whether or not to kill -- is a pillar of Christian thought.
 
2013-03-14 01:22:26 PM  

vpb: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

It wouldn't be for someone who doesn't believe in miracles or that the Pope is the Vicar of God on earth.  It's pretty good evidence that the people who claim to believe in those things don't believe in them all that much.


I'm glad you're here to tell all the Catholics what it is we believe.  You see, all this time, I had been under the impression that all us Catholics recognized that the Pope is still a mere mortal, a man, and like all men, can  and will eventually die.  But, you go ahead with that.
 
2013-03-14 01:23:07 PM  

gilgigamesh: But there is no question that mankind having free will -- being able to choose whether or not to sin, or in this case whether or not to kill -- is a pillar of Christian thought.


And a kick-ass Rush song.
 
2013-03-14 01:23:08 PM  

vpb: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

It wouldn't be for someone who doesn't believe in miracles or that the Pope is the Vicar of God on earth.  It's pretty good evidence that the people who claim to believe in those things don't believe in them all that much.


Yeah. Nobody is claiming that this is evidence of the lack of the divine.

It is evidence of a lack of faith from the people who claim the divine is real. They should have faith that god will protect them or that, if their time comes, god will take them up into heaven. Why spend all this money trying to thwart god's plans ... and what kind of faith do you have if you expect to be successful.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 01:28:23 PM  

Nabb1: I don't recall it every being part of Christian theology that there were any guarantees one would assuredly avoid an untimely death through a belief in God.  Even for Popes.  But, if that's working for you, stick with it.


Actually the belief that God will protect the faithful from danger is pretty common in Christianity, as is the idea that everything is a part of Gods plan.

Maybe the Pope is afraid that God might want him dead?  If I was fighting against contraception despite all the human suffering overpopulation and unplaned pregnancies cause I would be worried about God being pissed at me.

Of course, commoners should just accept that whatever happens to them is God's will, even though that's not good enough for the church nobility right?
 
2013-03-14 01:29:13 PM  
Subby's mom helped pay for it herself.  I gave her a few bucks.
 
2013-03-14 01:30:28 PM  

Farking Canuck: vpb: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

It wouldn't be for someone who doesn't believe in miracles or that the Pope is the Vicar of God on earth.  It's pretty good evidence that the people who claim to believe in those things don't believe in them all that much.

Yeah. Nobody is claiming that this is evidence of the lack of the divine.

It is evidence of a lack of faith from the people who claim the divine is real. They should have faith that god will protect them or that, if their time comes, god will take them up into heaven. Why spend all this money trying to thwart god's plans ... and what kind of faith do you have if you expect to be successful.


That is the most backward retarded "logic" I have ever seen - we exist in a real world with real things.  Claiming that the faithful shouldn't need to eat food because, if they really believed, then God would miracle the food into them or preserve them without the need for food is not all that far from what you've just claiming to be rock solid proof that they don't actually believe.
 
2013-03-14 01:30:31 PM  
He was watching a live taping of Oprah...
 
2013-03-14 01:31:22 PM  

snowybunting: This is not surprising, as the pope is part of a pentavirate of the richest people in the world, along with the Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys, and Colonel Sanders before he went tets-up.


NightOwl2255: WTF Indeed: Man, those 16th Century Jesuits were assholes.

Are they as bad as Illinois Jesuits? Cause man, those guys are assholes!


LOL
 
2013-03-14 01:32:19 PM  

vpb: Nabb1: I don't recall it every being part of Christian theology that there were any guarantees one would assuredly avoid an untimely death through a belief in God.  Even for Popes.  But, if that's working for you, stick with it.

Actually the belief that God will protect the faithful from danger is pretty common in Christianity, as is the idea that everything is a part of Gods plan.

Maybe the Pope is afraid that God might want him dead?  If I was fighting against contraception despite all the human suffering overpopulation and unplaned pregnancies cause I would be worried about God being pissed at me.

Of course, commoners should just accept that whatever happens to them is God's will, even though that's not good enough for the church nobility right?


You certainly seem to have a lot of anger and hostility towards people whose faith is different from your own beliefs.
 
2013-03-14 01:32:21 PM  
My guess is Subby is one of the same people who think its hypocritical that the president's family gets Secret Service protection. Because nothing that exists past the tip of his nose makes any sense.
 
2013-03-14 01:39:35 PM  
I'll cut this pope some slack over the last guy. He did refuse to move into the lavish digs his last position entitled him to.

He still holds extreme views most people disagree on, but it would be nice to see a leader who isn't opposed to the very idea of social justice.
 
2013-03-14 01:40:53 PM  
we know you are protected by gods will, but just in case.
 
2013-03-14 01:40:57 PM  

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.


Christ was assassinated. What makes you think a Pope would be immune?
 
2013-03-14 01:41:07 PM  

Fizpez: That is the most backward retarded "logic" I have ever seen - we exist in a real world with real things. Claiming that the faithful shouldn't need to eat food because, if they really believed, then God would miracle the food into them or preserve them without the need for food is not all that far from what you've just claiming to be rock solid proof that they don't actually believe.


Yeah except nobody except you said "he faithful shouldn't need to eat food ". The discussion is fearing danger and death ... religions are constantly saying not to fear these things because god is watching over you, etc.

I don't recall any religion suggesting not to eat because god is magically giving you nutrition.
 
2013-03-14 01:42:37 PM  

BullBearMS: I'll cut this pope some slack over the last guy. He did refuse to move into the lavish digs his last position entitled him to.

He still holds extreme views most people disagree on, but it would be nice to see a leader who isn't opposed to the very idea of social justice.


Agreed ... he seems to be a vast improvement over the Hitler Youth with a fetish for red leather, hand-made Italian shoes.
 
2013-03-14 01:44:04 PM  
Headline on Jan 20th 2009:

"Negro gets free house and limo"
 
2013-03-14 01:44:15 PM  

Squincher: My guess is Subby is one of the same people who think its hypocritical that the president's family gets Secret Service protection. Because nothing that exists past the tip of his nose makes any sense.

^^
THIS
 
2013-03-14 01:46:07 PM  

OddLlama: xanadian: When you got a bunch of nut bars gunning for you, a $500k bullet-proof car might be in order.

/not sure why it has to be $500k, but eh.

God will protect him. Right?


The Russians have an old proverb: "Trusts God, but ehhhs don't bes idiot."
 
2013-03-14 01:48:30 PM  
meanwhile, the Obama family takes trips using two jets and probably fighter escorts.
 
2013-03-14 01:49:44 PM  
How many young boys can he fit in the back with him?
 
2013-03-14 01:49:53 PM  
www.smbc-comics.com
 
2013-03-14 01:51:58 PM  
Get down low upon your knees.
Fiddle with your rosaries.
Bow your heads in deep respect and,
Genuflect, genuflect, genuflect...

/Doin' the Vatican Raaaaaaaaag......../
 
2013-03-14 01:57:29 PM  

McFifenstein: meanwhile, the Obama family takes trips using two jets and probably fighter escorts.


Yeah, WTF is that guy's problem? I miss the good old days when presidents just walked everywhere.
 
2013-03-14 02:08:04 PM  

joonyer: McFifenstein: meanwhile, the Obama family takes trips using two jets and probably fighter escorts.

Yeah, WTF is that guy's problem? I miss the good old days when presidents just walked everywhere.


well, he could use a horse I guess.
or a llama.
that would be cool.

but not a bullet proof llama because no one shoots at llamas.
 
2013-03-14 02:14:51 PM  

Farking Canuck: vpb: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

It wouldn't be for someone who doesn't believe in miracles or that the Pope is the Vicar of God on earth.  It's pretty good evidence that the people who claim to believe in those things don't believe in them all that much.

Yeah. Nobody is claiming that this is evidence of the lack of the divine.

It is evidence of a lack of faith from the people who claim the divine is real. They should have faith that god will protect them or that, if their time comes, god will take them up into heaven. Why spend all this money trying to thwart god's plans ... and what kind of faith do you have if you expect to be successful.


Yeah but there's also that whole "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord they God" thing in the gospels. To me, that means that you should trust God (if you believe in him, that is) to protect you but daring him to do so by doing something stupid might not be a good idea. There are plenty of people on this planet who would love to snipe a Pope, I'm sure. And for him to just walk around without some sort of physical protection might be construed as tempting God. I don't know. That's just my take on it.
 
2013-03-14 02:15:21 PM  

Raharu: MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?


The President (at least this one, unlike the last guy) doesn't claim to have a direct communication line to god.


Has the catholic church ever put forth a doctrine that god provides the pope a bulletproof vest?

Your argument is retarded.
 
2013-03-14 02:17:02 PM  

MyRandomName: Your argument is retarded.


Not really, or maybe.
The fact that this is a thing is retarded.
High profile people get high priced things.
welcome to the world.
 
2013-03-14 02:28:58 PM  

TerminalEchoes: Yeah but there's also that whole "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord they God" thing in the gospels. To me, that means that you should trust God (if you believe in him, that is) to protect you but daring him to do so by doing something stupid might not be a good idea. There are plenty of people on this planet who would love to snipe a Pope, I'm sure. And for him to just walk around without some sort of physical protection might be construed as tempting God. I don't know. That's just my take on it.


So, god is more like the Harbinger, from Mass Effect?

/Assuming direct control.../

Funny how god was never personally responsible for knowingly allowing an agent of evil access to paradise, but two innocent children, (who had no knowledge of good and evil,) were evidently held to a higher standard than god even held his own all-knowing ass to. And we all got punished for it.

i12.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 02:38:45 PM  
If I was pope:
www.haydn-automation.co.uk

"I don't care what it costs you motherfarkers, Get. It. Built! It's not like we have a shortage of worshipper money on hand. And don't forget the twin linked phased plasma cannons!"
 
2013-03-14 02:42:04 PM  

Ukab the Great: The bullets are real. Your God is not.

[bp3.blogger.com image 400x397]


Came for this.
 
2013-03-14 02:42:07 PM  

WalMartian: SlothB77: Rev. Skarekroe: Yeah, they're not going to let him keep taking the bus to work.

that's the thing.  if he wasn't trying to dodge wingnuts trying to take him out now, he probably still would try to take the bus to work.

This.



He works from home.

/heathens
 
2013-03-14 02:44:59 PM  

This text is now purple: Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

Christ was assassinated. What makes you think a Pope would be immune?


But that was supposedly the plan all along. Why do the popes want to thwart the will of God?
 
2013-03-14 02:48:25 PM  

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.


The mere fact that any being is omnipotent doesn't mean said entity will intervene in whatever way is necessary for your religion-bashing argument to hold water.
 
2013-03-14 02:55:15 PM  

puppetmaster745: MyRandomName: Does subby complain of the price for the presidential limo too?

At least the pope's car is payed for with money voluntarily donated by the faithful. The presidential limo is payed for with money seized at gunpoint. Don't pay your taxes and don't show up for court -- you'll see what I'm talking about.


Or subby wrote a trolly headline to get a cheap green and you bit the hook. Maybe subby knows his fark audience and they figueed the posters would pile on?

/not subby
 
2013-03-14 02:57:58 PM  
London sightseeing tour
i103.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 03:15:30 PM  

Nabb1: vpb: Nabb1: I don't recall it every being part of Christian theology that there were any guarantees one would assuredly avoid an untimely death through a belief in God.  Even for Popes.  But, if that's working for you, stick with it.

Actually the belief that God will protect the faithful from danger is pretty common in Christianity, as is the idea that everything is a part of Gods plan.

Maybe the Pope is afraid that God might want him dead?  If I was fighting against contraception despite all the human suffering overpopulation and unplaned pregnancies cause I would be worried about God being pissed at me.

Of course, commoners should just accept that whatever happens to them is God's will, even though that's not good enough for the church nobility right?

You certainly seem to have a lot of anger and hostility towards people whose faith is different from your own beliefs.


Ad hominem does not help your argument.
 
2013-03-14 03:26:04 PM  

CygnusDarius: I think the most important issue here is this: The guy is suspected (or known) to have been playing along with the Argentinian military regime, and did not say a word when two fellow Jesuits were arrested by the secret police.

But then again, the last guy also had some issues, and it's hard to go beyond the hype of John Paul II.


Also equally of suspected of risking his neck personally to get those priests returned alive by confronting the dictator in his private chambers over the issue
 
2013-03-14 03:30:29 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

Not that you get a medal for that or anything, undermining Christianity by pointing out the Theodicy problem isn't really new or exciting, it was logically invalidated centuries before Christianity was even a thing when a Greek philosopher pointed it out with regards to a similar local monotheistic cult.

Yes, that's right, even the people that thought their gods were a bunch of drunk idiots obsessed with sex and petty vengeance conclusively logically proved that their religion made more sense than yours.  Eat it, Catholics.


I'm not a theist or a theologian, but I remember something about free will and what not, so pointing out that someone might shoot the pope isn't really invalidating their version of a god. Cherry picking through the entirety of human existence to come up with a reason to mock Catholics is pretty weak also.
They diddle little boys...should be enough.
As far as the guy in the sky stuff, if it gives someone so far down in a pile of shiat that it hurts, a reason to get up tomorrow, then fine, believe away. It doesn't bother me.
Most of the people that claim to be religious in the political arena, however, are just using it to claim power by some perceived authority, a logical fallacy. They are the scum, not the belief or the believer.
He is a head of state that obviously has a lot of anger directed at it; as evidenced by the comments in this thread. With that much hate, someone somewhere is inevitably going to be convinced that if she or he kills the pope, all the world's problems will be solved.
Let the crazy hat dude have his car, besides it's used anyway.
Get mad at real things that are farking up your life and do something about it.
 
2013-03-14 03:33:44 PM  

Magorn: CygnusDarius: I think the most important issue here is this: The guy is suspected (or known) to have been playing along with the Argentinian military regime, and did not say a word when two fellow Jesuits were arrested by the secret police.

But then again, the last guy also had some issues, and it's hard to go beyond the hype of John Paul II.

Also equally of suspected of risking his neck personally to get those priests returned alive by confronting the dictator in his private chambers over the issue


Let me bite my tongue. Half-truths are worse than lies, I fear.
 
2013-03-14 03:34:54 PM  
i939.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 03:57:49 PM  

Carousel Beast: Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

The mere fact that any being is omnipotent doesn't mean said entity will intervene in whatever way is necessary for your religion-bashing argument to hold water.


We've already been over this (centuries ago):

rlv.zcache.com

Ask yourself this, if god helps those that help themselves, how can one distinguish between our efforts and god's help? How does one make that distinction? Where does our effort end and god's help begin?

From an outside perspective that statement really seems to be saying if you want something done, do it yourself. But if you do it yourself, where was god's help? Was god's help actually needed?

So often we see god(s) take credit for man's accomplishments, but to be intellectually honest you must face the question that if we did it, at what point was any god helping? One must ask oneself, honestly, has there ever been any accomplishment of man that has been completely impossible without the help of any supernatural agent?

If your answer is yes, then what form did that agent's help take? What evidence of it's help do you have? At what point did human effort end and supernatural help begin? How do you distinguish that occurrence from something that was accomplished through nothing more than human effort?

A challenge: name one thing demonstrably accomplished by mankind that is or was impossible for mankind to accomplish without the help of any supernatural influence, and what empirical evidence do you have that said influence affected the outcome of the task.

Is it a touchdown in football? Is it the invention of penicillin? Is it the discovery of electricity? The invention of the phone? Splitting of the atom? The combustion engine?
 
2013-03-14 04:03:48 PM  
Ask yourself this, if god helps those that help themselves, how can one distinguish between our efforts and god's help? How does one make that distinction? Where does our effort end and god's help begin?

Faith means not needing to ask your questions.
 
2013-03-14 04:07:13 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: They see him popin', they be hatin'




i111.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 04:15:03 PM  

Nabb1: Jim_Callahan: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

I don't recall it every being part of Christian theology that there were any guarantees one would assuredly avoid an untimely death through a belief in God.  Even for Popes.  But, if that's working for you, stick with it.


Well, much like my rock that prevents tiger attacks, I have not yet died an untimely death.  I credit my belief in God.

/sounded funnier in my head.
 
2013-03-14 04:17:23 PM  

Nytfall: Well, much like my rock that prevents tiger attacks, I have not yet died an untimely death. I credit my belief in God.

/sounded funnier in my head.


Maybe in your head you told the joke correctly.
 
2013-03-14 04:35:26 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: vpb: I think he needs something more compact and portable.

[www.tonecartoons.co.uk image 850x675]

PONTIFICATE! PONTIFICATE!

Congrats!  You win the Internet.

 
2013-03-14 04:44:25 PM  
People need to chill with the Jesuit thing. They're quickly turning into catholic ninjas who invented the question mark. They're marginally less derpy than the rest of the papists, that's it.
 
2013-03-14 04:49:34 PM  

Champion of the Sun: People need to chill with the Jesuit thing. They're quickly turning into catholic ninjas who invented the question mark. They're marginally less derpy than the rest of the papists, that's it.


pendletonpanther.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-14 04:54:46 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Carousel Beast: Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

The mere fact that any being is omnipotent doesn't mean said entity will intervene in whatever way is necessary for your religion-bashing argument to hold water.

We've already been over this (centuries ago):

[rlv.zcache.com image 512x512]

Ask yourself this, if god helps those that help themselves, how can one distinguish between our efforts and god's help? How does one make that distinction? Where does our effort end and god's help begin?

From an outside perspective that statement really seems to be saying if you want something done, do it yourself. But if you do it yourself, where was god's help? Was god's help actually needed?

So often we see god(s) take credit for man's accomplishments, but to be intellectually honest you must face the question that if we did it, at what point was any god helping? One must ask oneself, honestly, has there ever been any accomplishment of man that has been completely impossible without the help of any supernatural agent?

If your answer is yes, then what form did that agent's help take? What evidence of it's help do you have? At what point did human effort end and supernatural help begin? How do you distinguish that occurrence from something that was accomplished through nothing more than human effort?

A challenge: name one thing demonstrably accomplished by mankind that is or was impossible for mankind to accomplish without the help of any supernatural influence, and what empirical evidence do you have that said influence affected the outcome of the task.

Is it a touchdown in football? Is it the invention of penicillin? Is it the discovery of electricity? The invention of the phone? Splitting of the atom? The combustion engine?


Malevolent? Spoken like someone who has never raised kids. At some point you need to let your children make mistakes. You can not control EVERY aspect of their life. The can be omnipotence and still  bad things can happen, even if it is not what you want to happen. Anyone who has raised a daughter knows that the a way to prevent them from getting pregnant is by locking them up in their room forever. You have the power to prevent it. Are you a good parent, using your "omnipotence" to lock them up, so as to prevent them from getting pregant? Or do you let them go out? And if they get pregant are you malevolent?
 
2013-03-14 04:54:50 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: Ask yourself this, if god helps those that help themselves, how can one distinguish between our efforts and god's help? How does one make that distinction? Where does our effort end and god's help begin?

Faith means not needing to ask your questions.


Indeed, and that is a perilous road.
 
2013-03-14 04:56:37 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Indeed, and that is a perilous road.


How so?
 
2013-03-14 04:59:03 PM  

Champion of the Sun: People need to chill with the Jesuit thing. They're quickly turning into catholic ninjas who invented the question mark. They're marginally less derpy than the rest of the papists, that's it.


As an x Catholic, I can say it's a big deal to many people because ANY progress towards a less derpy church is monumental, no matter how small a step it seems.
 
2013-03-14 05:07:54 PM  

badaboom: Agent Smiths Laugh: Carousel Beast: Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

The mere fact that any being is omnipotent doesn't mean said entity will intervene in whatever way is necessary for your religion-bashing argument to hold water.

We've already been over this (centuries ago):

[rlv.zcache.com image 512x512]

Ask yourself this, if god helps those that help themselves, how can one distinguish between our efforts and god's help? How does one make that distinction? Where does our effort end and god's help begin?

From an outside perspective that statement really seems to be saying if you want something done, do it yourself. But if you do it yourself, where was god's help? Was god's help actually needed?

So often we see god(s) take credit for man's accomplishments, but to be intellectually honest you must face the question that if we did it, at what point was any god helping? One must ask oneself, honestly, has there ever been any accomplishment of man that has been completely impossible without the help of any supernatural agent?

If your answer is yes, then what form did that agent's help take? What evidence of it's help do you have? At what point did human effort end and supernatural help begin? How do you distinguish that occurrence from something that was accomplished through nothing more than human effort?

A challenge: name one thing demonstrably accomplished by mankind that is or was impossible for mankind to accomplish without the help of any supernatural influence, and what empirical evidence do you have that said influence affected the outcome of the task.

Is it a touchdown in football? Is it the invention of penicillin? Is it the discovery of electricity? The invention of the phone? Splitting of the atom? The combustion engine?

Malevolent? Spoken like someone who has never raised kids. At some point you need to let your children make mistake ...


Omnipotence without omniscience would function as you describe. However, the christian god is considered omniscient as well. Aware of all things and all possible things. Thus god (as the parent) would know exactly when and how the daughter was going to get pregnant, and being omnipotent certainly would have the power to prevent it, and furthermore if said pregnancy were harmful and undesirable, would have the impetus to prevent it. But if said being then chooses not to prevent it, knowing it is a harmful and undesirable thing, and that said being chose not to stop it, then yes, that is a malevolent act, or at the very least extremely negligent.

And that's not to mention, if said god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did that god choose not to create a system in which such negative events did not happen? After all it's omnipotent, so clearly it has the power to create a perfect, harmless system. It's omniscient, so clearly it knows how to. So why choose not to?

Your analogy breaks down. You are neither omnipotent, nor omniscient. Thus you are only able to act on probabilities, not certainties. This does not put you on an equal level with any god being who is capable of unlimited action with unlimited awareness.
 
2013-03-14 05:12:36 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: Agent Smiths Laugh: Indeed, and that is a perilous road.

How so?


Because not asking questions is willfully acting in ignorance, and willfully acting in ignorance is dangerous.
 
2013-03-14 05:25:29 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-14 05:26:44 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Because not asking questions is willfully acting in ignorance, and willfully acting in ignorance is dangerous.


Interesting.  So, a person who doesn't care to question whether or not they did something themselves or with the assistance of God is dangerous?

I get what you're saying, but hyperbolic rants against faith are no more constructive than are the hyperbolic rants in favor of faith.  You're no less dangerous than, say, a red letter Christian who doesn't feel the need to answer such questions.  In fact, I'd say you're probably more so, because you're a bit more hateful and arrogant than they are.

Note:  a red letter Christian is one who emphasizes the teachings of Jesus, and isn't all caught up in the "religion" side of things.  Religion and faith--two different things.  I can see why you would have problems with religion.  That makes sense to me.  But problems with faith?  Why would you have a problem with someone's faith?  That seems silly.
 
2013-03-14 05:42:20 PM  

gilgigamesh: Jim_Callahan: Nabb1: There are indeed many intellectually legitimate, sound, logical, philosophical and theological arguments to be made against the existence of the Divine.  The fact that the Pope has a bullet-proof car is not one of them.

To be fair, the car is an admission that god is not all-powerful, so it actually does undermine Christian theology pretty thoroughly.

No it doesn't. It is a pretty well accepted tenet of Christianity that god created mankind with free will. Remember Adam and Eve? God cast them out of paradise because they chose to disobey him. Likewise, you can choose to reject Christ and go to hell.

I realize there are a lot of logical incongruities between free will of man and omnipotence of god. But there is no question that mankind having free will -- being able to choose whether or not to sin, or in this case whether or not to kill -- is a pillar of Christian thought.


I don't think Adam and Eve is a good story for your side of the argument. Satan was the one that directed them to intelligence and knowledge. We owe that dude a lot.

If I was God and I needed a mouthpiece down on the planet I'd protect them at least a little bit.
He doesn't have to be immortal, but at least give him some force fields or telekinetic powers.
Since popes have to be old, they could use their telekinesis to move around with the power of their mind alone.
 
2013-03-14 05:53:50 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: If I was God and I needed a mouthpiece down on the planet I'd protect them at least a little bit.
He doesn't have to be immortal, but at least give him some force fields or telekinetic powers.


Your main fallacy here is assuming that Catholicism has anything to do with faith.  Catholicism is simply the remnant of an early government, the traditions of which are worshiped as thoroughly as protestants worship God.

However, for such an enlightened person, it seems odd that you can't grasp the fact that the New Covenant is vastly different from the Old.  According to Christianity, God sent Jesus, and from then on out does not directly intervene in the world, except through Christians.  In other words, he won't cause plagues, and he won't burn bushes, but Christians carry out his will, to the extent that they are able (or certainly willing).

You also make the mistake, as many do, in believing that that religious people should be perfect people, and fault Christianity for the actions of Christians.

No religion can withstand the scrutiny of being judged by the people who practice it.  We're all pretty farked up.
 
2013-03-14 06:20:08 PM  
Agent Smiths Laugh:
Omnipotence without omniscience would function as you describe. However, the christian god is considered omniscient as well. Aware of all things and all possible things. Thus god (as the parent) would know exactly when and how the daughter was going to get pregnant, and being omnipotent certainly would have the power to prevent it, and furthermore if said pregnancy were harmful and undesirable, would have the impetus to prevent it. But if said being then chooses not to prevent it, knowing it is a harmful and undesirable thing, and that said being chose not to stop it, then yes, that is a malevolent act, or at the very least extremely negligent.
And that's not to mention, if said god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did that god choose not to create a system in which such negative events did not happen? After all it's omnipotent, so clearly it has the power to create a perfect, harmless system. It's omniscient, so clearly it knows how to. So why choose not to?
Your analogy breaks down. You are neither omnipotent, nor omniscient. Thus you are only able to act on probabilities, not certainties. This does not put you on an equal level with any god being who is capable of unlimited action with unlimited awareness.


I'm an agnostic, so I don't believe god has a hand in it, but your argument is ridiculous. first, a malevolent god would be one that actively causes evil, not stand back and watch. What is described is apathy at worst.

If God has given us free will he can't just stop people from using it, otherwise it wouldn't be free will now, would it?

If there were never negative consequences for any action according to your current baseline of what is good or evil, what would be seen as evil and how would that affect your interaction with the world?

If there is no adversity how can you measure perseverance?

If there is no evil how can you see honour in those that chose to be righteous?

If god protected everyone all the time from everything, life would have no point. Life is supposed to be a sort of entrance exam to the next world.

You're saying that if God really loved us, he'd become the ultimate nanny state wrapping everyone in bubble wrap, but because he hasn't smothered us and prevented us from having free will, he's evil or doesn't exist. That is a ridiculous position.
 
2013-03-14 06:27:14 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: If I was God and I needed a mouthpiece down on the planet I'd protect them at least a little bit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Mar%C3%ADa_Fern%C3%A1ndez_y_Krohn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot

I dunno, you might be forgiven for thinking he might be a little bit.
 
2013-03-14 07:15:27 PM  
arethereanybeernamesleft:

Your main fallacy here is assuming that Catholicism has anything to do with faith.  Catholicism is simply the remnant of an early government, the traditions of which are worshiped as thoroughly as protestants worship God.

Huh? I'm not sure why you're telling me that. I thought it was clear that I don't personally believe he's a messenger of god with divine powers.
===================================================================== = ==============
However, for such an enlightened person, it seems odd that you can't grasp the fact that the New Covenant is vastly different from the Old.  According to Christianity, God sent Jesus, and from then on out does not directly intervene in the world, except through Christians.  In other words, he won't cause plagues, and he won't burn bushes, but Christians carry out his will, to the extent that they are able (or certainly willing).

???
What part of my post brought this response about? Dude, I was talking about force fields.
I'm perfectly aware of the Old and New Testaments but that's another discussion.
===================================================================== = ================

You also make the mistake, as many do, in believing that that religious people should be perfect people, and fault Christianity for the actions of Christians.

...Telekinesis?
===================================================================== = ================
No religion can withstand the scrutiny of being judged by the people who practice it.  We're all pretty farked up.

All the more reason the Pope should have force fields.

hight3ch.com
/hotlinked
 
2013-03-14 07:21:55 PM  
C_Canuk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Mar%C3%ADa_Fern%C3%A1ndez_y_Krohn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot

I dunno, you might be forgiven for thinking he might be a little bit.


That's a good hand, but you've left yourself open:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-14 07:32:38 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: C_Canuk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Mar%C3%ADa_Fern%C3%A1ndez_y_Krohn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot

I dunno, you might be forgiven for thinking he might be a little bit.

That's a good hand, but you've left yourself open:

[i.imgur.com image 342x324]


only one explanation.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-14 07:33:25 PM  

C_Canuk: Agent Smiths Laugh:
Omnipotence without omniscience would function as you describe. However, the christian god is considered omniscient as well. Aware of all things and all possible things. Thus god (as the parent) would know exactly when and how the daughter was going to get pregnant, and being omnipotent certainly would have the power to prevent it, and furthermore if said pregnancy were harmful and undesirable, would have the impetus to prevent it. But if said being then chooses not to prevent it, knowing it is a harmful and undesirable thing, and that said being chose not to stop it, then yes, that is a malevolent act, or at the very least extremely negligent.
And that's not to mention, if said god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did that god choose not to create a system in which such negative events did not happen? After all it's omnipotent, so clearly it has the power to create a perfect, harmless system. It's omniscient, so clearly it knows how to. So why choose not to?
Your analogy breaks down. You are neither omnipotent, nor omniscient. Thus you are only able to act on probabilities, not certainties. This does not put you on an equal level with any god being who is capable of unlimited action with unlimited awareness.

I'm an agnostic, so I don't believe god has a hand in it, but your argument is ridiculous. first, a malevolent god would be one that actively causes evil, not stand back and watch. What is described is apathy at worst.

If God has given us free will he can't just stop people from using it, otherwise it wouldn't be free will now, would it?

If there were never negative consequences for any action according to your current baseline of what is good or evil, what would be seen as evil and how would that affect your interaction with the world?

If there is no adversity how can you measure perseverance?

If there is no evil how can you see honour in those that chose to be righteous?

If god protected everyone all the time from everything, life w ...


So a god that is attributed with creating a being, giving that being free will, and then punishing that being (with eternal torment) for exercising that free will when it doesn't align with that gods wishes is not malevolent at all?

To me, that sounds like the ultimate expression of sadism.

But wait, everything that transpires is god's will, and you if suffer horribly, it's god's will that you suffer, but since it's god and god is perfect good, it can't possibly be malevolent to let you suffer, even though god could do something if he wanted to.

That's usually the response I see to the question of evil and suffering.

Yes, I view having complete, unlimited power to prevent suffering, but choosing not to a malevolent act, because you are actively choosing to not prevent suffering, thus you are choosing to perpetuate suffering.

Meriam-Webster definition of malevolent:

1: having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, 2: productive of harm or evil

Entrance exam to the next world? What next world? Do you have any evidence of this next world? Have you seen it, smelled it, maybe brought back a rock from it? Can you point it out on a map? And the test? Who wrote it? According the the christian view, their god wrote it, but it's rigged because all of us inevitably fail it, which he knew we would, but he'll excuse our failure as long as we acknowledge that we aren't capable of passing the test without his help. But if you don't, the penalty is that your next world is one of endless torment (which also can, it seems, be found on any map).
 
2013-03-14 07:40:18 PM  

C_Canuk: Agent Smiths Laugh:
Omnipotence without omniscience would function as you describe. However, the christian god is considered omniscient as well. Aware of all things and all possible things. Thus god (as the parent) would know exactly when and how the daughter was going to get pregnant, and being omnipotent certainly would have the power to prevent it, and furthermore if said pregnancy were harmful and undesirable, would have the impetus to prevent it. But if said being then chooses not to prevent it, knowing it is a harmful and undesirable thing, and that said being chose not to stop it, then yes, that is a malevolent act, or at the very least extremely negligent.
And that's not to mention, if said god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did that god choose not to create a system in which such negative events did not happen? After all it's omnipotent, so clearly it has the power to create a perfect, harmless system. It's omniscient, so clearly it knows how to. So why choose not to?
Your analogy breaks down. You are neither omnipotent, nor omniscient. Thus you are only able to act on probabilities, not certainties. This does not put you on an equal level with any god being who is capable of unlimited action with unlimited awareness.

I'm an agnostic, so I don't believe god has a hand in it, but your argument is ridiculous. first, a malevolent god would be one that actively causes evil, not stand back and watch. What is described is apathy at worst.


Also, according to christian theology, god is the author of everything, including evil, so yes, their god actively causes evil by its very creation, and exacerbates it by choosing (because it's all god's will they say) not to do anything about it, or only to sometimes do something about it...when he wants to.

One can even (relatively easily) find scripture in their bible ascribing to god the active intention to cause evil upon people. So how exactly does their god get off the hook?

The usual response is, "Because he's god!"
 
2013-03-14 07:43:00 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: C_Canuk: Agent Smiths Laugh:
Omnipotence without omniscience would function as you describe. However, the christian god is considered omniscient as well. Aware of all things and all possible things. Thus god (as the parent) would know exactly when and how the daughter was going to get pregnant, and being omnipotent certainly would have the power to prevent it, and furthermore if said pregnancy were harmful and undesirable, would have the impetus to prevent it. But if said being then chooses not to prevent it, knowing it is a harmful and undesirable thing, and that said being chose not to stop it, then yes, that is a malevolent act, or at the very least extremely negligent.
And that's not to mention, if said god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did that god choose not to create a system in which such negative events did not happen? After all it's omnipotent, so clearly it has the power to create a perfect, harmless system. It's omniscient, so clearly it knows how to. So why choose not to?
Your analogy breaks down. You are neither omnipotent, nor omniscient. Thus you are only able to act on probabilities, not certainties. This does not put you on an equal level with any god being who is capable of unlimited action with unlimited awareness.

I'm an agnostic, so I don't believe god has a hand in it, but your argument is ridiculous. first, a malevolent god would be one that actively causes evil, not stand back and watch. What is described is apathy at worst.

Etc. etc.


...don't, the penalty is that your next world is one of endless torment (which also can't, it seems, be found on any map).

Etc.
 
2013-03-14 08:01:23 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: Agent Smiths Laugh: Because not asking questions is willfully acting in ignorance, and willfully acting in ignorance is dangerous.

Interesting.  So, a person who doesn't care to question whether or not they did something themselves or with the assistance of God is dangerous?

I get what you're saying, but hyperbolic rants against faith are no more constructive than are the hyperbolic rants in favor of faith.  You're no less dangerous than, say, a red letter Christian who doesn't feel the need to answer such questions.  In fact, I'd say you're probably more so, because you're a bit more hateful and arrogant than they are.

Note:  a red letter Christian is one who emphasizes the teachings of Jesus, and isn't all caught up in the "religion" side of things.  Religion and faith--two different things.  I can see why you would have problems with religion.  That makes sense to me.  But problems with faith?  Why would you have a problem with someone's faith?  That seems silly.


Negative. The person who doesn't care where their accomplishments come from and doesn't ask is apathetic, or perhaps insane. Simple observation indicates either you do something and it is done, or someone else does something and it is done.

I doubt I need to explain to you what a willful act of ignorance is, or how it can be dangerous, or for that matter how faith can do the same, but if you do need an example, consider Jehovah's Witnessess and blood transfusions.

But I was speaking of whether or not you attribute your deeds to yourself or someone else, and whether or not it is rational to attribute your deeds to someone else when the only empirical evidence available indicates that you were the only one acting (you in the general plural sense).

But who said I was hateful? Am I hateful and arrogant for asking questions, for pointing out that it can be dangerous to not ask questions? For pointing out that irrational behavior is irrational?

Understand, I came from a deeply christian background, and only found my way out of christian dogmatic thinking when I started actually asking questions and looking for rational answers. That same background that encouraged me to NOT ask questions and leave it all up to god. That same background that said god knows it all, and nothing we learn is meaningful compared to god's limitless wisdom, knowledge, and power, so why not leave it all up to god?

I sometimes wonder how many potentially brilliant minds that could have effected real progress for our species have been held back by that intellectually lazy mindset.
 
2013-03-15 12:13:07 PM  
I don't know why the pope needs a special car.  He's got other means of transportation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xqSxKhSSAWc #t =328s
 
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