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(NPR)   Why the new pope, even though he is a Jesuit, chose the name "Francis" rather than Ignatius to honor his order's founder: Maybe to invoke St Francis' commitment to charity and social justice, or maybe just to avoid being "Iggy Pope"   (npr.org) divider line 186
    More: Interesting, St. Francis Borgia, Jesuits, social justice, Federico Lombardi, Melissa Block, St. Francis of Assisi, Pope John Paul I, Bergoglio  
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5806 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 11:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 10:04:09 AM  
Green light FTW, mods.
 
2013-03-14 10:18:30 AM  
Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.
 
2013-03-14 10:22:51 AM  

nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.


I think if he puts a lot more emphasis on the social justice stuff and less emphasis on the social conservatism stuff, the RCC would be seen in a much more positive light.
 
2013-03-14 10:24:54 AM  

nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.


Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.
 
2013-03-14 10:26:20 AM  
I thought he chose Francis because of his Italian parents and that he is a patron saint of Italy.
 
2013-03-14 10:30:49 AM  

Magorn: nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.

Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.


Oh it's definitely an improvement over Benedict. I always disliked him, but I really did like JP2. I'm not Catholic, but I thought JP2 did a lot to reach across many aisles. If he tones down the anti-gay (I realize he can't deviate from doctrine entirely) and focuses on the good aspects of the teachings of Christ (love thy neighbor, charity, etc.) he could be a positive influence for sure. But the church is still going to be left in the dust, the culture is rapidly shifting here in favor of acceptance of homosexuality. Even not that long ago, as a child in the 1980s I NEVER heard of anyone being openly gay. Now I have openly gay friends and family, as do an ever growing number of people. They just won't be able to hold on to that much longer if they ever expect to grow as a church. Just my 2 cents.
 
2013-03-14 10:37:05 AM  

nekom: Magorn: nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.

Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.

Oh it's definitely an improvement over Benedict. I always disliked him, but I really did like JP2. I'm not Catholic, but I thought JP2 did a lot to reach across many aisles. If he tones down the anti-gay (I realize he can't deviate from doctrine entirely) and focuses on the good aspects of the teachings of Christ (love thy neighbor, charity, etc.) he could be a positive influence for sure. But the church is still going to be left in the dust, the culture is rapidly shifting here in favor of acceptance of homosexuality. Even not that long ago, as a child in the 1980s I NEVER heard of anyone being openly gay. Now I have openly gay friends and family, as do an ever growing number of people. They just won't be able to hold on to that much longer if they ever expect to grow as a church. Just my 2 cents.


Agreed. I rather think the Church's teaching on homosexuality will soon join thier teaching on say birth control-technically still on the books but ignored and treated with an eyeroll by the faithful when borught up.  The  interesting test-case that a lot of Catholic insiders are watching is the last pope began a crackdown on several liberal orders of US Nuns (for, among other things supporting Obamacare and not screaming loudly enough about abortion).  if that inquiry/investigation is quietly canned, then they feel that it will be a clear signal that this guy's proirities lies in a different direction than Ratzinger's
 
2013-03-14 10:39:47 AM  
Could he then explain his opposition to birth control and abortion as merely being a byproduct of his lust for life?
 
2013-03-14 10:42:52 AM  

nekom: Magorn: nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.

Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.

Oh it's definitely an improvement over Benedict. I always disliked him, but I really did like JP2. I'm not Catholic, but I thought JP2 did a lot to reach across many aisles. If he tones down the anti-gay (I realize he can't deviate from doctrine entirely) and focuses on the good aspects of the teachings of Christ (love thy neighbor, charity, etc.) he could be a positive influence for sure. But the church is still going to be left in the dust, the culture is rapidly shifting here in favor of acceptance of homosexuality. Even not that long ago, as a child in the 1980s I NEVER heard of anyone being openly gay. Now I have openly gay friends and family, as do an ever growing number of people. They just won't be able to hold on to that much longer if they ever expect to grow as a church. Just my 2 cents.


They're not going to change on gay marriage, women priests, abortion, euthanasia, or birth control any time soon.  However, they could be more positive towards homosexuality, enhance the role of women in the church, promote cradle to grave social welfare, and recognize that sex isn't always just for procreation.  It'll happen eventually, but probably not in the next 30 years after everyone else has moved on.
 
2013-03-14 10:47:39 AM  

BunkyBrewman: I thought he chose Francis because of his Italian parents and that he is a patron saint of Italy.


I thought it was because his favorite Stallone brother is Frank.
 
2013-03-14 10:50:04 AM  
As an alum of a Jesuit University, I see what you did there Subby, and I approve.
 
2013-03-14 10:51:08 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: nekom: Magorn: nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.

Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.

Oh it's definitely an improvement over Benedict. I always disliked him, but I really did like JP2. I'm not Catholic, but I thought JP2 did a lot to reach across many aisles. If he tones down the anti-gay (I realize he can't deviate from doctrine entirely) and focuses on the good aspects of the teachings of Christ (love thy neighbor, charity, etc.) he could be a positive influence for sure. But the church is still going to be left in the dust, the culture is rapidly shifting here in favor of acceptance of homosexuality. Even not that long ago, as a child in the 1980s I NEVER heard of anyone being openly gay. Now I have openly gay friends and family, as do an ever growing number of people. They just won't be able to hold on to that much longer if they ever expect to grow as a church. Just my 2 cents.

They're not going to change on gay marriage, women priests, abortion, euthanasia, or birth control any time soon.  However, they could be more positive towards homosexuality, enhance the role of women in the church, promote cradle to grave social welfare, and recognize that sex isn't always just for procreation.  It'll happen eventually, but probab ...


It only took them 300 years to admit Galileo may have had a point

/so they can adapt
 
2013-03-14 10:54:20 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: It only took them 300 years to admit Galileo may have had a point

/so they can adapt


It only took them 57 years to grudgingly accept Modernism; they're getting better.
 
2013-03-14 10:57:25 AM  
Pipe down, Francis.

Calm your tits, Francis.

Lighten up, Francis.


Yep, I'm glad he chose the name Francis.
 
2013-03-14 10:57:49 AM  
i249.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 11:18:35 AM  

Sybarite: Could he then explain his opposition to birth control and abortion as merely being a byproduct of his lust for life?


He's just never met a girl like you before.
 
2013-03-14 11:19:49 AM  

exick: BunkyBrewman: I thought he chose Francis because of his Italian parents and that he is a patron saint of Italy.

I thought it was because his favorite Stallone brother is Frank.


He chose it because all the nuns call his member "The Mule".
 
2013-03-14 11:22:34 AM  

exick: BunkyBrewman: I thought he chose Francis because of his Italian parents and that he is a patron saint of Italy.

I thought it was because his favorite Stallone brother is Frank.


I thought it was so the Pope could begin every speech with "Let me be Frank..."
 
2013-03-14 11:24:24 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: They're not going to change on gay marriage, women priests, abortion, euthanasia, or birth control any time soon. However, they could be more positive towards homosexuality, enhance the role of women in the church, promote cradle to grave social welfare, and recognize that sex isn't always just for procreation. It'll happen eventually, but probably not in the next 30 years after everyone else has moved on.


Quite frankly, anyone expecting the Church to significantly change any element of doctrine is dreaming.  What this Pope needs to do most pressingly is address the institutional problems facing the Church right now not just with resolving the lingering child sex abuse scandals, but with the recent scandal of corruption in the Vatican itself.  While women will not be allowed into the priesthood any time soon, there is still need for reform in the priesthood.  Liberalization of doctrine isn't going to happen on Francis' watch.  But he can - and to some degree, must, if the Church is to move forward - tackles some very daunting structural issues.
 
2013-03-14 11:31:14 AM  

Sybarite: Could he then explain his opposition to birth control and abortion as merely being a byproduct of his lust for life?


i911.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 11:48:58 AM  

Nabb1: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: They're not going to change on gay marriage, women priests, abortion, euthanasia, or birth control any time soon. However, they could be more positive towards homosexuality, enhance the role of women in the church, promote cradle to grave social welfare, and recognize that sex isn't always just for procreation. It'll happen eventually, but probably not in the next 30 years after everyone else has moved on.

Quite frankly, anyone expecting the Church to significantly change any element of doctrine is dreaming.  What this Pope needs to do most pressingly is address the institutional problems facing the Church right now not just with resolving the lingering child sex abuse scandals, but with the recent scandal of corruption in the Vatican itself.  While women will not be allowed into the priesthood any time soon, there is still need for reform in the priesthood.  Liberalization of doctrine isn't going to happen on Francis' watch.  But he can - and to some degree, must, if the Church is to move forward - tackles some very daunting structural issues.


Indeed, although I think his problem with reform of the Curia is that he's, essentially, an outsider who's going to be relying on insiders to provide him advice on how to fix the insiders.  That takes some real management skills and there's a real risk that he won't be able to fix the problem before he dies.

/Maybe he should outsource management to the Jews, Lutherans or Anglicans?
 
2013-03-14 11:49:30 AM  
I needed a laugh today, submitter.  Thank you.
 
2013-03-14 11:51:24 AM  
Social Justice for everyone!

boo

Ok, Social Justice for no one!

boo

Hmmm... Social Justice for some, rosaries and bibles for others

yay
 
2013-03-14 11:54:12 AM  
I wanna be your dog pope!
Or maybe he was just bored - chairman of the bored.
 
2013-03-14 11:54:31 AM  
Francis Xavier, the man who supposedly converted more people to Christianity than anyone other than Christ himself, is probably at least as important to the Jesuit order as Ignatius Loyola.
 
2013-03-14 11:56:30 AM  
Every time a pope dies/retires I send in a resume.  Never thought to much about it but now I want to be Iggy Pope
 
2013-03-14 11:56:37 AM  

Snarfangel: exick: BunkyBrewman: I thought he chose Francis because of his Italian parents and that he is a patron saint of Italy.

I thought it was because his favorite Stallone brother is Frank.

I thought it was so the Pope could begin every speech with "Let me be Frank..."


I thought it was bridge building to the LGBT community. Why else choose St. Francis of a Sissy?
 
2013-03-14 11:56:39 AM  
Pope Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey is kind of long.

\oui oui
 
2013-03-14 11:58:20 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Thinks you're all a bunch of stooges.
 
2013-03-14 11:59:06 AM  

Arkanaut: Francis Xavier, the man who supposedly converted more people to Christianity than anyone other than Christ himself, is probably at least as important to the Jesuit order as Ignatius Loyola.


But still not as important or as powerfull as his brother Charles, even if he is stuck in a wheel chair
 
2013-03-14 11:59:09 AM  
Jesus is said to have embraced the outcast of society and preached a message of hope and salvation. The Catholic Church refuses to accept over 90% of women in developed nations use birth control, that gay people have a right to happiness and that pedophile priests and everyone involved in the coverup should be excommunicated and sent to jail. It is no wonder religiosity levels are falling everywhere except developing nations.
 
2013-03-14 12:01:21 PM  
www.ratzingerfanclub.com

"Usted tiene que arreglar sus asuntos con la Iglesia "

/we're going to have the poor with us forever
 
2013-03-14 12:01:59 PM  

Magorn: (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory)


Then fark those guys. That show sucks.
 
2013-03-14 12:02:09 PM  

Sybarite: Could he then explain his opposition to birth control and abortion as merely being a byproduct of his lust for life?


It's simple, he only answers to the sky wizard who tells him "I wanna be your god".
 
2013-03-14 12:02:28 PM  
Too busy to fight through all of the comments - Headline should be a major candidate for HOY!
 
2013-03-14 12:03:52 PM  

Ennuipoet: As an alum of a Jesuit University, I see what you did there Subby, and I approve.


As an everyday slob with a cursory familiarity with history and pop culture, I see it too.
 
2013-03-14 12:04:31 PM  

Carth: Jesus is said to have embraced the outcast of society and preached a message of hope and salvation. The Catholic Church refuses to accept over 90% of women in developed nations use birth control, that gay people have a right to happiness and that pedophile priests and everyone involved in the coverup should be excommunicated and sent to jail. It is no wonder religiosity levels are falling everywhere except developing nations.


well... the thing about the church's views on sexuality are a little more nuanced than hating this group or denying this fact or ignoring that consequence.

first off, sex is for procreation, nothing else.  that means anyone who has sex without the intent of baby making is breaking the rules.  including hetero marriages that use birth control.  so, that's the hate on gay people.  they're having sex and they're not even pretending to be procreating.

however, sex for pleasure is perfectly fine if, and this is a big IF, you are a member of the cloth.  then all taboos are lifted. children, gay, prostitutes... doesn't matter. as long as you keep it secret.  because priests are above lay people.
 
2013-03-14 12:05:20 PM  

The Martian Manhandler: Magorn: (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory)

Then fark those guys. That show sucks.


Shhhhhhhhhhh!!1! Talk like that will get the show canceled!

/hubba hubba
 
2013-03-14 12:06:06 PM  

The Martian Manhandler: Magorn: (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory)

Then fark those guys. That show sucks.


i went to a jesuit lawschool, and I have to admit that i really admire the jesuit dedication to education.  also, the university was pretty serious about fighting for the rights of homosexuals (and all of the oppressed).  so, sometimes there's dissent among the catholic ranks.
 
2013-03-14 12:06:31 PM  

Magorn: nekom: Magorn: nekom: Social justice, except for you know gays.  Still somewhat 'liberal' by Pope standards I suppose.

Look, you take what you can get.  Is the Church going to overnight (or ever) say "You know we truly screwed the pooch on all our teachings on sexual morality, and have been really misogynist SOBS, so we're going to cut all that out now"?  No, of course not.  But I'm stll encouraged by the fact that he's a Jesuit, the branch of the church most respectful of learning and knowledge, particularly the scientific kind (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory) and that he name-checked the church's shining example of what an actual Christian should act like (St Fancis of Assisi) -a guy who not only gave away nearly everything he owned to the poor but was damn nearly a druid when it came to repecting nature.

Oh it's definitely an improvement over Benedict. I always disliked him, but I really did like JP2. I'm not Catholic, but I thought JP2 did a lot to reach across many aisles. If he tones down the anti-gay (I realize he can't deviate from doctrine entirely) and focuses on the good aspects of the teachings of Christ (love thy neighbor, charity, etc.) he could be a positive influence for sure. But the church is still going to be left in the dust, the culture is rapidly shifting here in favor of acceptance of homosexuality. Even not that long ago, as a child in the 1980s I NEVER heard of anyone being openly gay. Now I have openly gay friends and family, as do an ever growing number of people. They just won't be able to hold on to that much longer if they ever expect to grow as a church. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed. I rather think the Church's teaching on homosexuality will soon join thier teaching on say birth control-technically still on the books but ignored and treated with an eyeroll by the faithful when borught up.  The  interesting test-case that a lot of Catholic insiders are watching is the last pope began a crackdown on several liberal orders ...


My boss' sister is one of the nuns in question. Hell hath no fury like my boss when she's pissed off (German/Irish). Made for some very interesting, heated conversations around the office.

/Raised a lapsed Catholic. I find the Church fascinating.
 
2013-03-14 12:06:41 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

/Preview? Preview? What's a preview?
 
2013-03-14 12:06:52 PM  
We need a temporary pope tab.
 
2013-03-14 12:07:37 PM  
Does he sound like Chill Wills?

Donald O' Conner approved choice for top Catholic guy!
 
2013-03-14 12:07:52 PM  
A lot of people seem to care about the Roman Catholic Church choosing a new pope.

They are different from me in that regard.

/nice header, subby
 
2013-03-14 12:08:37 PM  
marriage is a sacrament in the church, with a definition. it would take a huge change to redefine that.

the root of Catholics being anti gay is the extramarital relations, which is impossible to resolve without redefining Catholic sacraments. it's not necessarily the same as fundamentalist "gays r bad" (ie totally without empathy). it isn't scriptural. this is something I could see changing someday, but not necessarily this time around.

as far as abortion goes, it's a vile practice, like the death penalty or war. not that the church hates soldiers, but the sanctity of human life just cannot be something the church ever compromises on. condoms? maybe. but never on abortion. I might be a backwards caveman on the issue, but there are no better angels on the topic of abortion on either side.
 
2013-03-14 12:09:50 PM  

Joe Blowme: Arkanaut: Francis Xavier, the man who supposedly converted more people to Christianity than anyone other than Christ himself, is probably at least as important to the Jesuit order as Ignatius Loyola.

But still not as important or as powerfull as his brother Charles, even if he is stuck in a wheel chair


Not until he got a hold of the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, anyway.
 
2013-03-14 12:09:52 PM  

pute kisses like a man: The Martian Manhandler: Magorn: (a Jesuit priest came up with the Big bang Theory)

Then fark those guys. That show sucks.

i went to a jesuit lawschool, and I have to admit that i really admire the jesuit dedication to education.  also, the university was pretty serious about fighting for the rights of homosexuals (and all of the oppressed).  so, sometimes there's dissent among the catholic ranks.


Well, we Catholics fight a lot. Mostly with out inner guilt, but we fight.
 
2013-03-14 12:10:24 PM  

tuna fingers: Sybarite: Could he then explain his opposition to birth control and abortion as merely being a byproduct of his lust for life?

It's simple, he only answers to the sky wizard who tells him "I wanna be your god".


I understand if he had two good lungs in his youth he may have been a real wild child.
 
2013-03-14 12:10:28 PM  
Oh yeah, non-practicing catholic. Eh, work.
 
2013-03-14 12:12:02 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
Ran into him at the airport in Grand Cayman.  Weirder than I had imagined.
 
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