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(Philly.com)   Joe Paterno supporters take their place alongside birthers, truthers, and moon landing denialists   (philly.com) divider line 38
    More: Followup, Joe Paterno, Penn State, moon landings, FBI Director Louis Freeh, board of trustees, trustees, Thursday Afternoon  
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2702 clicks; posted to Sports » on 14 Mar 2013 at 9:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 08:50:56 AM
5 votes:
PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.
2013-03-14 08:28:08 AM
4 votes:
I'm just sad he died before seeing his legacy raped like an underprivileged kid.
2013-03-14 01:11:46 PM
3 votes:

Moopy Mac: His superpower did include his ability to tell the Board of Trustees that he was not fired when they tried to fire him about 9 years ago. That's pretty impressive.


He was a doddering, confused, yet affable old man who suddenly demonstrated the capriciousness and acuity to so adamantly fight for his job and tell those above him to fark off. But remember, he's a doddering, confused, yet affable old man.
2013-03-14 09:54:42 AM
3 votes:

Weaver95: PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.


This. A few athletes caught smoking pot? Sure, that sort of thing you can "handle" internally, no problem. Child RAPE? No. If you have the slightest suspicion that a child has been raped, the ONLY proper course of action is immediately calling the state police and telling them all you know. Anything short of that is inappropriate.
2013-03-14 02:26:12 PM
2 votes:

GoldSpider: Don't worry, the Internet can fill in the gaps in evidence/facts with the most vile conjecture imaginable, and nobody can be held accountable for inaccuracies.


Look, here's the thing- and this is really a sticking point for me: I don't see how anyone can deny that Joe Paterno had quite a bit of power in State College, PA. At a bare minimum, he had a legion of fans who would basically do, well, whatever he asked of them and a local media that- and again, this is a bare minimum- seemed appreciative of him.

He also had a report of some kid-rapin' going on, which he- and again, we're talking BARE MINUMUM here- felt was credible enough to take to his superiors. I find it unimaginable that he wouldn't have asked a follow-up question a few days later, along the lines of "Hey... um... has anybody talked to Sandusky? Like, law enforcement types?" I ask this, because UNDER OATH, in front of a grand jury, Paterno testified that he was told about Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" to a kid.

If Joe Paterno had wanted to do so, he could have picked up the phone in 2002 and put an end to everything. He could have given an anonymous tip to a reporter that Sandusky was diddling kids, Penn State knew it, and nothing was happening. He could have called a press conference, and said "I believe Penn State is trying to cover up a crime". He could have resigned, simply saying "this institution does not live up to the standards I thought it would", and leaving it at that. He could have done any number of things, and we'd remember him today as a hero with the courage of his convictions.

Instead, he did as little as imaginably possible. Virtually nothing, for whatever reason you'd like to give. Because of that, at a very BARE MINIMUM, he is complicit in every rape of a small child that Jerry Sandusky committed from February 2001 on. He could have stopped it. He had the power to do so. He didn't.
2013-03-14 01:50:41 PM
2 votes:

doubled99: Ah yes, time again for everyone who was called names by football players in high school to  vent their years-old pent up butthurt.

They can't hurt you anymore


Yup, that's what this is TOTALLY about.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you were a farktard long before the CTE set in?

// Managed to play 8 years of football without committing child rape. Miraculous I know!
2013-03-14 12:58:34 PM
2 votes:
Its simple. Suppose Paterno had been told that it was one of his grandsons being abused by Sandusky. Do you HONESTLY think that under those circumstances he would have just "reported the incident to higher ups?" If you can not answer yes to that question you can NOT defend Paterno in any way.
2013-03-14 10:57:06 AM
2 votes:

oryx: I believe they all knew about Sandusky when they forced him to retire in 1999 and that's a coverup.


They likely also had to somehow convey to other schools he was radioactive in some way.  He was 55 and fairly good D-Coord and in 1999, lesser schools should have been all over him.  PSU must have somehow been warning the other schools that the 1998 rape accusation was legit and they wanted to avoid him.
2013-03-14 10:56:42 AM
2 votes:
Question to JoePa defenders: What if it was your son or younger brother who was being raped by Sandusky? Would you still feel Joe did the right thing by telling his "bosses" once and not doing anything else about it?
2013-03-14 10:53:55 AM
2 votes:
The whole Freeh report denial thing blows my mind.  The Freeh Report was done so the BoT could figure out how farked they were.  They wanted the report to come back and say "You're not that farked, it was just Sandusky operating as a lone wolf figure."  That would response would let PSU duck the more serious cover up charges and the like since they could paint Sandusky as some kind of cagey master of deception of suckered everyone.  In turn that meant less trouble with the federal government (you can lose federal funding for failure to report crimes), less trouble with the NCAA, and less trouble with the B1G (Delany is still reserving the right to impose sanctions in excess of the NCAA).  Instead the Freeh report came back with "You're farked" written on it.  The BoT accepted it and the intelligent ones ran off to plea bargain with the NCAA.

Now the PSU truthers somehow think a tailor made report purchased by the Paterno family to clear their Patriarch's name is somehow more valid than a report done by the BoT.  The BoT had every motivation in the world to generate a credible report that found their beloved coach and their administration mostly blameless and they couldn't.  That says really all you need to know.

/plus of course the Paterno family is doing is this before Curley, Spanier, and Schultz all go on trial and potentially spill their guts to get lesser sentences.
2013-03-14 10:29:42 AM
2 votes:

Champion of the Sun: you have pee hands: BunkyBrewman: "That's the legal procedure at Penn State" *sigh*

He should ask the three guys currently facing prosecution if that ship floats.

That ginger bastard who did nothing to stop a child rape he actually witnessed is protected as a whistleblower. So yeah, it floats if you report it, they didn't. JoePa reported it


He reported it to several underlings and then ignored 9 years of no action while allowing a predator to continue to use his facilities. How noble.
2013-03-14 10:08:33 AM
2 votes:
Can we get a Pennsyltucky tag yet?
2013-03-14 09:21:57 AM
2 votes:

Weaver95: PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.


As long as you have guys like Franco Harris going around hosting "town hall meetings" defending Paterno, don't hold your breath.
2013-03-15 09:37:48 AM
1 votes:

GoldSpider: PC LOAD LETTER: Like 9/11, right?

9/11 Truthers "know" what the government knew the same as the Paterno-haters "know" what he knew.


We knew what he knew because of public testimony. I know you have a hard-on for football and Penn State, but your hero was a farking asshole who ignored a charge of child rape. That's his legacy and that is what people now know him as. Sorry for your loss.
2013-03-14 09:30:16 PM
1 votes:

WillofJ2: I just have never understood why this was an NCAA thing to regulate and punish.
The penalized were committed while he was not a football coach right?  It did not give them an advantage as a football program, they didnt cover up any players or recruiting violations, so why the football penalties from all i read Paterno hated the guy and the university actually gave him permission to use the facility not the football program.


Do you mean like the time Sandusky took the kid to the bowl game in Texas to rape him in the hotel room? Amd when the kid complained Sandusky told him to shut up or he'd send him home in disgrace. But if he stayed for more Sandusky loving he could be a walk on at PSU?  Would that be against NCAA rules? Or not in your mind?

Because all that is in the Grand Jury report if you simply botherd to read it..
2013-03-14 08:07:45 PM
1 votes:
I just have never understood why this was an NCAA thing to regulate and punish.
The penalized were committed while he was not a football coach right?  It did not give them an advantage as a football program, they didnt cover up any players or recruiting violations, so why the football penalties from all i read Paterno hated the guy and the university actually gave him permission to use the facility not the football program.

All for the destruction and ruination of all involved that participated in a coverup, but taking away scholarships from student athletes and penalizing the university just doesnt seem right to me
2013-03-14 05:25:09 PM
1 votes:
Behind every Penn State truther is a guy who's pissed he had to spend a Sunday afternoon scraping the Nittany Lions decal off his truck bumper because he didn't want to get egged/keyed.
2013-03-14 05:24:45 PM
1 votes:

justtray: The facts remain, Paterno was told about an instance in 2001, reported it as he was required, at which point it was no longer his moral or legal responsibility. Any other notion of "well he should have known he was dealing with child rape and done more," is nothing more than self righteous BS, much like the Freeh report itself.

You're going to need more than "after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe" with no context whatsoever to have any legitimate claim of a coverup involving Paterno.


Why should Freeh be obligated to respond to a spurious report containing no facts released by people with an obvious bias?  And even if he were, why are you ignoring the fact that the Freeh report was released far earlier, so of course the second responds to the first while the first doesn't respond to the second?  And why do you think doing the most basic reporting up the chain and never following up fulfills someones moral obligation when they hear about child rape?  I don't think you're totally sure what facts are.
2013-03-14 03:55:36 PM
1 votes:

justtray: forever_blowing_bubbles: justtray: Weaver95: PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.

I'm confused which side is supposed to be equivilent to "truthers" here. It's somehow not the side arguing against "The experts determined that the conclusions of the (university) report are based on raw speculation and unsupported opinion -- not facts and evidence." AND "No evidence exists that Paterno concealed critical information about Sandusky."

But I suppose we can just hand wave all that by saying that the report is somehow bias, without actually being able to offer any type of logical rebuttal. Freeh didn't even argue against it other than to say he stands by his opinions that are entirely based on speculation.

And lastly, the concept that Penn State would want their report to be without fault is laughable. They wanted it to be harsh so they could say to the NCAA, "see we took the responsibility to identify the faults and attempt to correct them, don't punish us as harshly!"

The only truthers here are the ones whose opinions are solely based on wild speculation and misplaced self righteousness because they need to feel superior to others.

The Freeh report: 430 interviews conducted, 3.5 million e-mails and documents examined, carried out by a team of investigators that cost $8.1 million.

Jackass Paterno Truther: "opinions are solely based on wild speculation"

Well, I know who I should believe!

The one that has no facts to support their wild speculation, even after interviewing 430 people and searching through 3.5 million emails?

Like I said, The only truthers here are the ones whose opinions are solely based on wild speculation and misplaced self righteousness because they need to feel superior to others.

Remember, not even Freeh himself refuted the claim that his conclusion was based with no factual basis and only in speculation.


ORLY?
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2013/feb/10/paterno-family-chall en ges-freeh-report-report-thei/

The former federal judge said evidence showed Paterno was involved in an "active agreement to conceal" and his report cited email exchanges, which referenced Paterno, between administrators about allegations against Sandusky in 1998 and 2001.
...

Freeh on Sunday cited grand jury testimony by Paterno in 2011 in which Paterno said a graduate assistant relayed to him a 2001 allegation against Sandusky of a "sexual nature" with a child.

He referred to a key point in the July report in which he said Spanier, Schultz and Curley drew up a plan that called for reporting Sandusky to the state Department of Public Welfare in 2001. But Curley later said in an email that he changed his mind "after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe."


// In short, you're a koolaid drinking moron. JoePa is dead, he's not going to fark you whtie knight!
// Glad he is dead and hope Sandusky and him are together soon.
2013-03-14 02:56:58 PM
1 votes:

justtray: Weaver95: PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.

I'm confused which side is supposed to be equivilent to "truthers" here. It's somehow not the side arguing against "The experts determined that the conclusions of the (university) report are based on raw speculation and unsupported opinion -- not facts and evidence." AND "No evidence exists that Paterno concealed critical information about Sandusky."

But I suppose we can just hand wave all that by saying that the report is somehow bias, without actually being able to offer any type of logical rebuttal. Freeh didn't even argue against it other than to say he stands by his opinions that are entirely based on speculation.

And lastly, the concept that Penn State would want their report to be without fault is laughable. They wanted it to be harsh so they could say to the NCAA, "see we took the responsibility to identify the faults and attempt to correct them, don't punish us as harshly!"

The only truthers here are the ones whose opinions are solely based on wild speculation and misplaced self righteousness because they need to feel superior to others.


The Freeh report: 430 interviews conducted, 3.5 million e-mails and documents examined, carried out by a team of investigators that cost $8.1 million.

Jackass Paterno Truther: "opinions are solely based on wild speculation"

Well, I know who I should believe!
2013-03-14 02:27:13 PM
1 votes:
What I honestly can't figure out, though, is how Governor Tom Corbett has managed to escape any blame.  When he was PA Attorney General, his office received allegations of Sandusky's crimes and did....nothing, for 33 months.  Now that was a serious dereliction of duty, and somehow it's almost completely escaped scrutiny.
2013-03-14 02:02:23 PM
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: when they stripped Paterno of his wins there was no due process given to Paterno (he was already dead) nor to his family or estate.


If he was already dead, then he wasn't punished.
Also, it is a little known fact that winning records are subject to a 100% estate tax, and are not inheritable.
2013-03-14 01:38:50 PM
1 votes:
Ah yes, time again for everyone who was called names by football players in high school to  vent their years-old pent up butthurt.

They can't hurt you anymore
2013-03-14 01:13:36 PM
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: The Paterno Family will win their lawsuit vs the NCAA because the US Supreme Court has already ruled against the NCAA in Tarkanian v NCAA in that the NCAA must give due process to individuals before handing down punishments....when they stripped Paterno of his wins there was no due process given to Paterno (he was already dead) nor to his family or estate. The NCAA will lose the Paterno lawsuit....that is if they really want to embarrass themselves over defending the Freeh Report in court.


They didn't punish Paterno directly.  They stripped Penn State of its wins.  They have the power to vacate team's wins and do it fairly frequently.
2013-03-14 01:10:34 PM
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: The difference between the "Paternoistas" and Birthers/Truthers/Mooners etc.... is that Paterno actually has a case....as much as the media wants to deny such

The Paterno Family will win their lawsuit vs the NCAA because the US Supreme Court has already ruled against the NCAA in Tarkanian v NCAA in that the NCAA must give due process to individuals before handing down punishments....when they stripped Paterno of his wins there was no due process given to Paterno (he was already dead) nor to his family or estate. The NCAA will lose the Paterno lawsuit....that is if they really want to embarrass themselves over defending the Freeh Report in court.

A first week law student would realize the NCAA will lose vs Paterno based on already established SCOTUS precedent


"Vacating wins" is possibly the stupidest punishment ever devised by the NCAA (among others).  It's something a three year old would do.
2013-03-14 12:48:18 PM
1 votes:
The difference between the "Paternoistas" and Birthers/Truthers/Mooners etc.... is that Paterno actually has a case....as much as the media wants to deny such

The Paterno Family will win their lawsuit vs the NCAA because the US Supreme Court has already ruled against the NCAA in Tarkanian v NCAA in that the NCAA must give due process to individuals before handing down punishments....when they stripped Paterno of his wins there was no due process given to Paterno (he was already dead) nor to his family or estate. The NCAA will lose the Paterno lawsuit....that is if they really want to embarrass themselves over defending the Freeh Report in court.

A first week law student would realize the NCAA will lose vs Paterno based on already established SCOTUS precedent
2013-03-14 11:56:42 AM
1 votes:

IAmRight: Totally plausible that every university knew about this for a decade and no one ever said anything.


It would take a person of real character and strength to call attention to that situation.  Good luck finding one in college football.
2013-03-14 11:53:03 AM
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: HaywoodJablonski: mikaloyd: Can we get a Pennsyltucky tag yet?

What do you think the DUMBASS tag is for?

Hey, hey there.  Dumbasses have no known geographical boundaries.


Incorrect. We have Florida for Florida, Dumbass for Pennsyltucky, and Stupid, Asinine and Weird for everything else
2013-03-14 11:47:36 AM
1 votes:

legion_of_doo: if woody did the same, or if Bo did the same as joepa, I don't see how our alumni would do the same as Penn State. I just don't. the rational voices would win out.


I'd imagine in the case of Woody or Bo, they'd have held a press conference in 1998 to explain why the D-Coord's severed head was suddenly on a spike in front of the stadium as a "warning to others".  Graceful retirement to focus on your charity was not on the table, so much as the players of the team are dispatched with orders to find you and bring you before Bo or Woody (and no questions will be asked about broken bones, etc).
2013-03-14 11:46:27 AM
1 votes:

IAmRight: TDWCom29: I think that same radioactivity might have effected other coaches there, because Tom Bradley (after realizing Joe would never retire) put his name out there for a few head coaching jobs and was never really considered. And he would have been perfect for quite a few of the jobs on the surface.

Not saying Bradley was diddling kids too, but just saying that might have been another indication that other schools knew something was up at PSU and didn't want to deal with anyone even closely associated with it

Yup. Totally plausible that every university knew about this for a decade and no one ever said anything.


There could have been rumors floating around for years. This happens and sometimes those rumors are bad enough that people don't want to take a chance on the people involved with the rumors.

Also it is kinda strange that not to many PSU coaches from that era went on to better coaching jobs at other schools.
2013-03-14 11:36:04 AM
1 votes:

Hang On Voltaire: I get the PSU fan's thinking.  Their program has been wrapped up and affiliated with one man for so long that to accept what Paterno did (or didn't do) is to somehow accept that your whole belief system is a fraud.  It's sad (no I am not equating it to what Sandusky's victims went through, it is possible to discuss both without comparing them btw) and I really do feel for them.  One day this will end and PSU will be just another B1G program but it will be years and years


I don't get it.

those guys in Columbus got rid of tressel even though he won, got Lloyd Carr canned, and so on. the program shouldn't be a cult of personality.

if woody did the same, or if Bo did the same as joepa, I don't see how our alumni would do the same as Penn State. I just don't. the rational voices would win out.

and if I can't see the people in Ohio being so misguided, how can I understand the joepa people being so delusional?

i just don't see it. I just can't understand it, and I can't have a lot of empathy for it.

Catholics in this country have a lot to answer for... but this is football for God's sake! it's not blind defense of even a religious creed. and yet this is a bigger cult than Catholicism for some.
2013-03-14 11:35:34 AM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: oryx: I believe they all knew about Sandusky when they forced him to retire in 1999 and that's a coverup.

They likely also had to somehow convey to other schools he was radioactive in some way.  He was 55 and fairly good D-Coord and in 1999, lesser schools should have been all over him.  PSU must have somehow been warning the other schools that the 1998 rape accusation was legit and they wanted to avoid him.


I think that same radioactivity might have effected other coaches there, because Tom Bradley (after realizing Joe would never retire) put his name out there for a few head coaching jobs and was never really considered. And he would have been perfect for quite a few of the jobs on the surface.

Not saying Bradley was diddling kids too, but just saying that might have been another indication that other schools knew something was up at PSU and didn't want to deal with anyone even closely associated with it
2013-03-14 11:34:18 AM
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: As long as you have guys like Franco Harris going around hosting "town hall meetings" defending Paterno, don't hold your breath.


Don't worry about him. The second he meets any resistance he'll run to the sidelines.
2013-03-14 10:49:22 AM
1 votes:

Champion of the Sun: So yeah, it floats if you report it, they didn't. JoePa reported it


If JoePa wanted things to happen, he had the sway to make people jump.

People didn't jump. What does that tell you?
2013-03-14 10:39:33 AM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: Can we get a Pennsyltucky tag yet?


What do you think the DUMBASS tag is for?
2013-03-14 10:38:04 AM
1 votes:
When you ride with Joe Pa you ride straight to hell
2013-03-14 09:49:23 AM
1 votes:
I believe they all knew about Sandusky when they forced him to retire in 1999 and that's a coverup.
2013-03-14 09:26:08 AM
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: Weaver95: PSU is going to have to accept that Paterno was deeply involved in the cover up.

As long as you have guys like Franco Harris going around hosting "town hall meetings" defending Paterno, don't hold your breath.


Oh they can stick their fingers in their ears and yell as loud as they want but...it's not gonna work.  Paterno was a key figure in the cover up and thats just all there is to it.
 
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