If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   San Francisco Symphony musicians go on strike after finding it too difficult to make ends meet on $147,000/yr with full benefits and 10 weeks paid vacation   (sfgate.com) divider line 129
    More: Asinine, San Francisco Symphony, San Francisco  
•       •       •

2636 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Mar 2013 at 7:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



129 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-03-14 07:03:02 AM  
lots of struggling musicians get jobs as short order chefs.  yet these guys are just cruising along it seems
 
2013-03-14 07:15:23 AM  
My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?
 
2013-03-14 07:25:18 AM  
Need to know a few things before criticizing them:
Cost of instruments (for a big city symphony orchestra, probably 5-6 figures) and maintaining them, cost of living, cost of clothing. Add into that what their educational costs were, their average age, and much more.
 
2013-03-14 07:27:59 AM  

FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?


what's more expensive?  groceries?? like a box of Wheaties costs $10 in california?

a gallon of whole milk costs $20?
 
2013-03-14 07:28:12 AM  
Next week's headline: 'All-new SF Symphony's debut concert'
 
2013-03-14 07:32:06 AM  

madnessupmysoul: Need to know a few things before criticizing them:
Cost of instruments (for a big city symphony orchestra, probably 5-6 figures) and maintaining them, cost of living, cost of clothing. Add into that what their educational costs were, their average age, and much more.


All you need to know is: what is the supply of qualified musicians and what is the demand for qualified musicians? Nothing else matters.
 
2013-03-14 07:32:32 AM  

madnessupmysoul: Need to know a few things before criticizing them:
Cost of instruments (for a big city symphony orchestra, probably 5-6 figures) and maintaining them, cost of living, cost of clothing. Add into that what their educational costs were, their average age, and much more.


Understood, they can still go f*ck themselves
 
2013-03-14 07:39:13 AM  
World's smallest violin.  They should take a lesson from the 49ers. I mean world class musicians making that kind of money? Ridiculous!It is not like they are filling stadiums or anything. No one what's to listen to that crap anyway. If they want money, they should have played sports!
 
2013-03-14 07:41:11 AM  
My belief, without reading the whole article, is that playing in the symphony is not a strictly full-time gig. Can't they find work teaching private lessons? Seems to me if they can dedicate 10-20 hours per week doing that, they might be doing just fine.
 
2013-03-14 07:42:07 AM  
The most pertinent example in this regard is principal timpanist David Herbert, who is leaving the orchestra after 19 years to join the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.


Wait, the guy than bangs on the big drums? Because I saw a kid busking with some plastic buckets who was really good.
 
2013-03-14 07:42:43 AM  

justanothersumguy: World's smallest violin.  They should take a lesson from the 49ers. I mean world class musicians making that kind of money? Ridiculous!It is not like they are filling stadiums or anything. No one what's to listen to that crap anyway. If they want money, they should have played sports!


thing is, if they were making $250,000 a year, they'd want $500,000

why?
cause it's california, EVERYTHING is expensive in california
by everything i just mean the rent. lol
 
2013-03-14 07:45:45 AM  
Labor strikes are about extracting a fair wage for the work done. It doesn't matter if it's machinists union striking against a factory underpaying its workers or world class concert pianists who believe they should get paid a greater share of the profits they generate for the syphony or NFL players fighting for more revenue sharing and better post career healthcare.

If somebody getting screwed by management, beit $17 an hour tradesman or $10 million a year athlete, they have every right to demand to be paid their worth.
 
2013-03-14 07:47:15 AM  
I say outsource them all with those show-off Chinese kids you see playing on Youtube.Who could tell the difference?
 
2013-03-14 07:51:29 AM  
This seems appropriate:

i1049.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 07:53:13 AM  
Old & busted: I got mine so FARK YOU
New hotness: I'm listening to .38 Special at home so FARK YOU
 
2013-03-14 07:57:10 AM  

manwithdaplan: My belief, without reading the whole article, is that playing in the symphony is not a strictly full-time gig. Can't they find work teaching private lessons? Seems to me if they can dedicate 10-20 hours per week doing that, they might be doing just fine.


Or they could just quit altogther and get 15 McJobs.
 
2013-03-14 07:57:27 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

what's more expensive?  groceries?? like a box of Wheaties costs $10 in california?

a gallon of whole milk costs $20?


Housing costs in Cali are insane.  SF area is especially bad, worse than Manhattan.

Sales tax is also high in Cali than it is almost anywhere else in the country.  And yes, food is more expensive there.  Gas costs (therefore, transport costs) are higher as well

Do you feel stupid yet, or should I continue?
 
2013-03-14 07:59:42 AM  
This sucks!  Where are they going to find a bunch of replacement musicians on such short notice?
 
2013-03-14 08:02:51 AM  
"Oh it's so horrible how expensive it is living here in California! I can't believe how much rent costs and food and gas, oh my!"

"Why don't you move?"

"Oh my, I could never do that. It's sunny here"
 
2013-03-14 08:03:48 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Jon iz teh kewl: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

what's more expensive?  groceries?? like a box of Wheaties costs $10 in california?

a gallon of whole milk costs $20?

Housing costs in Cali are insane.  SF area is especially bad, worse than Manhattan.

Sales tax is also high in Cali than it is almost anywhere else in the country.  And yes, food is more expensive there.  Gas costs (therefore, transport costs) are higher as well

Do you feel stupid yet, or should I continue?


sorry i don't believe all that shiat

i believe you can buy my Lean Cuisine dinners EVERYWHERE You go
for under $5 a pop

*GAS*?
fark gas
order your cannabis from silk road instead of driving to your dealers
you don't need a "social" life

also.

rent might be a couple $1000 more a month AT THE MOST

seriously
move into a studio

there.  problem solved

now lets all do the hot dog dance

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-03-14 08:05:57 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: now lets all do the hot dog dance


Gotta go back to Houston to do that.
 
2013-03-14 08:06:24 AM  

FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?


This. Isn't the average mediocre apartment over $2k per month around San Fran?
 
2013-03-14 08:07:23 AM  
they should go to home depot and get some mexicans to replace them.
 
2013-03-14 08:10:27 AM  
Businesses maximizing revenue equal "merica, fark yeah!
Workers maximizing wages equal, dirty commie ingrates outta be happy with that got, derp!
 
2013-03-14 08:14:06 AM  

bborchar: This seems appropriate:


Came for this, but strangely I'm still journey.
 
2013-03-14 08:16:56 AM  

digistil: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

This. Isn't the average mediocre apartment over $2k per month around San Fran?


But it comes with a grand view of sodomites.
Everywhere
 
2013-03-14 08:17:16 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Jon iz teh kewl: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

what's more expensive?  groceries?? like a box of Wheaties costs $10 in california?

a gallon of whole milk costs $20?

Housing costs in Cali are insane.  SF area is especially bad, worse than Manhattan.

Sales tax is also high in Cali than it is almost anywhere else in the country.  And yes, food is more expensive there.  Gas costs (therefore, transport costs) are higher as well

Do you feel stupid yet, or should I continue?


I think it's more about this:

How many people would jump at the chance for a gig with the SF symphony for $150k, costs inflated?
How many very good musicians are waiting tables in their spare time trying to make ends meet?

That gives you the idea of your expendability.
However, this article is a couple of years ago, but some of these issues still persist today:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/02/symp-f04.html

Many musicians around the country were hit hard by the recent downturn- things have gotten better, but it's still not pre-housing crash era levels.  People just don't have the same amount of disposable income.  I love the arts- plays, operas, musicals, symphonies...I even used to buy season tickets...now, I can only afford to see one or two shows a year.  And there was a year where I didn't go at all.  And ticket prices really haven't fallen.

I do feel for them, but musician was their chosen field, and they knew that they'd probably have to move to a city for work (and the more prestigious, the bigger the city, the higher the costs).  They are complaining about a 5% difference in pay from their sister symphony...many people right now have not had a raise in years, and many have actually taken paycuts or loss of benefits.  So...waah.
 
2013-03-14 08:17:27 AM  
Nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-03-14 08:18:11 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: "Oh it's so horrible how expensive it is living here in California! I can't believe how much rent costs and food and gas, oh my!"

"Why don't you move?"

"Oh my, I could never do that. It's sunny here"


I want them to stay right where they are.
 
2013-03-14 08:19:30 AM  

digistil: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

This. Isn't the average mediocre apartment over $2k per month around San Fran?


thus making your yearly expenses like $24,000 more a year at the most

which nearly accounts for that $90,000 more you'd be making in another state doing the same thing
the extra money goes to cocaine of course
but you can always tell people you spend it on rent cause rent is sooo expensive

and eating out is something you do all the time, well cause everyone's doing it
 
2013-03-14 08:21:37 AM  
Why can't the slackers do this?

susannassketchbook.typepad.com
 
2013-03-14 08:24:22 AM  
According to the article they need to pay for their instruments, which supposedly can cost as much as $1 million according to the article.  So it doesn't sound like a ton of money if you factor that in.  Maybe they could pay for their instruments and then offer them a lower wage or something.
 
2013-03-14 08:27:49 AM  
want their cake and eat it too
so the instruments cost alot of money.  just like a good mechanic wants to use his own tools its not up to the repair garage they work for to buy them. i know half a dozen mechanics and tradesmen that have $100-250k in tools and they don't make $150k a year.
 
2013-03-14 08:28:33 AM  
They should start playing real instruments, they're cheaper
 
2013-03-14 08:29:50 AM  

TheSelphie: According to the article they need to pay for their instruments, which supposedly can cost as much as $1 million according to the article.  So it doesn't sound like a ton of money if you factor that in.  Maybe they could pay for their instruments and then offer them a lower wage or something.


maybe they're just not getting the message
that symphony music farking sucks
 
2013-03-14 08:35:24 AM  

FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?


Ummmm no.

SF is expensive, but not THAT expensive.
 
2013-03-14 08:36:58 AM  

DrPainMD: Nothing else matters.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
Did someone say overpaid musicians?!?!
 
kab
2013-03-14 08:37:49 AM  
A guaranteed salary for playing (albeit well) what you're told to?   Some of these folks should try writing / performing /recording their own work, footing the bill entirely themselves, and trying to generate income on that.  Perspective is a wonderful thing.
 
2013-03-14 08:40:04 AM  
How much is the Symphony making? If it is only just making ends meet currently then sorry no money for higher pay. Is the Symphoney making money hand over fist then yes it's right that the people responsible for the success get to enjoy it.
 
kab
2013-03-14 08:41:03 AM  

starlost: want their cake and eat it too
so the instruments cost alot of money.  just like a good mechanic wants to use his own tools its not up to the repair garage they work for to buy them. i know half a dozen mechanics and tradesmen that have $100-250k in tools and they don't make $150k a year.


Those mechanics aren't paying the full cost up front.
 
2013-03-14 08:43:59 AM  
As a teacher that lives in California, holds a masters degree, has been with the same district for 11 years now, and is making just over $55k/yr....AND supports his wife & 2 kids, I'm really getting a kick outta this...

/no, not really
//yeah...what's a savings account?
 
2013-03-14 08:50:04 AM  

FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?


And you would be correct. The costs of the "advantages" of living in a liberal-stronghold.
 
2013-03-14 08:53:37 AM  
They could always hang out and play for "donations" by the BART stations downtown.  They'd be almost as entertaining than that one guy who stands around preaching (screaming) at people all day long (I think it was Powell St. station if I'm remembering correctly - although it's been a while).

/you can't walk five feet out of the train before you're accosted by people asking for money
//the local shoeshine boys do some constant business down there
///couldn't pay me enough to live in SF - literally (I don't know how anyone does it unless they're incredibly wealthy)
 
2013-03-14 08:54:17 AM  

kab: A guaranteed salary for playing (albeit well) what you're told to?   Some of these folks should try writing / performing /recording their own work, footing the bill entirely themselves, and trying to generate income on that.  Perspective is a wonderful thing.


That's like saying factory workers should try building their own workshop and marketing their products entirely by themselves instead of making demands.

/no idea if these demands are reasonable
//depends, like Norfolking Chance said
 
2013-03-14 08:57:33 AM  

HAMMERTOE: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

And you would be correct. The costs of the "advantages" of living in a liberal-stronghold.



Yes, I'm sure it has everything to do with California being predominately liberal and nothing at all to do with the fact that larger cities are always more expensive to live in.  Next up: Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul, London, Hong Kong, and Paris are all "liberal strongholds".
 
2013-03-14 09:01:39 AM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: Businesses maximizing revenue equal "merica, fark yeah!
Workers maximizing wages equal, dirty commie ingrates outta be happy with that got, derp!


Pretty much.

How many people in this thread have gone to see their local symphony?

Your local flyover country symphony may have been disbanded, but the symphonies in the big cities are doing juuuust fine. Just like Broadway shows are doing fine. High end talent should be getting high end pay. If the SF Symphony thinks they can get away with hiring a local symphonic High School Band and throwing them out there and fill seats for the same price, they'll do it.


They can't.

and to you morons who think that playing a musical instrument at a high (big city symphony) level isn't hard, or that these people don't deserve their pay because they don't compose their own material (and how would you know they aren't doing that as well?) fark yourselves. I'm sorry no one came to see your shiathole band back when you were in High School, i'm sure you were *this* close to making it big.
 
2013-03-14 09:10:05 AM  
Cost of living in San Fran is about double the US average.

So, these folks are going on strike for making what would be ~$74k most other places because musicians at other orchestras are making more.

This reminds me of a sociological experiment that some folks did, where they asked people "I have $100.  If you agree, I'm going to give you X dollars, and the rest I'll give to someone else.  If you don't agree, neither of you gets any money."  They found that in Western countries, if X was less than $50, people were way more likely to say no.  Pretty much everywhere else, the amount of X had no real impact on whether or not people said no.

What is it about our culture that makes us care so very very much about what other people have/are getting?  If I'm able to pay my bills and have enough left over for some savings and entertainment, I'm happy.  What someone else makes at the same job with a different company is irrelevant to me.  Am I getting paid enough for what I do?  Yes?  Good.  No?  That sucks, and maybe something needs to be done.  What other people make doesn't even enter into the equation.
 
2013-03-14 09:16:22 AM  

DrPainMD: madnessupmysoul: Need to know a few things before criticizing them:
Cost of instruments (for a big city symphony orchestra, probably 5-6 figures) and maintaining them, cost of living, cost of clothing. Add into that what their educational costs were, their average age, and much more.

All you need to know is: what is the supply of qualified musicians and what is the demand for qualified musicians? Nothing else matters.


Oh, you liked S&M too? Not bad for a metal/symphony combo.
 
2013-03-14 09:20:22 AM  

digistil: FullMetalPanda: My understanding of California, especially for locations like SF, 147,000 is barely above poverty levels there due to how expensive everything is?

This. Isn't the average mediocre apartment over $2k per month around San Fran?


So the average San Franciscan is in the top 1%?
 
2013-03-14 09:32:47 AM  
As others have said, the Bay Area is more expensive than NYC. And given that orchestra musicians work past 10PM 3 to 4 nights a week, I can appreciate them not wanting to live 1.5 hours outside of the city where housing is cheaper.

The pay also factors in the fact that they're working nights 3 to 4 days, as well as weekends.
 
Displayed 50 of 129 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report