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(Stuff.co.nz)   Apple's Schiller shills   (stuff.co.nz) divider line 39
    More: Obvious, Android, Samsung, Samsung Galaxy S, Phil Schiller, habitat fragmentation, IDC  
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1469 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Mar 2013 at 1:05 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-13 11:42:33 PM  
He's not wrong in his criticism of Android. It just doesn't matter.
 
2013-03-14 12:19:43 AM  
Paging BingeThinker to an Apple thread.
 
2013-03-14 01:09:24 AM  
I'm not even planning to upgrade to the S4, because my S2 (with the latest firmware) is still so freaking nice.
I got yer fragmentation right here.
 
2013-03-14 01:10:31 AM  
He sounds concerned.
 
2013-03-14 01:15:49 AM  
Suck a fat one, Schiller.  I'm not buying an iPhone.
 
2013-03-14 01:23:48 AM  
It's not Fark, it's press releases.
 
2013-03-14 01:32:24 AM  

ReverendJasen: Suck a fat one, Schiller.  I'm not buying an iPhone.


I'm sure he cries about it all the way to the bank.
 
2013-03-14 01:35:53 AM  
He's not entirely wrong. My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in, with no software updates and all that (yeah yeah, got around that jailbroken), meanwhile a friend's comparable old iphone is getting its updates still.
 
2013-03-14 01:37:03 AM  
Well, yeah, but shouldn't a brand new phone come with the latest OS?
 
2013-03-14 01:41:50 AM  

Dinobot: He's not entirely wrong. My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in, with no software updates and all that (yeah yeah, got around that jailbroken), meanwhile a friend's comparable old iphone is getting its updates still.


I bought an iPhone 4 in 2009. It is in perfect working order. It runs the most recent OS.

I've heard great things about the Android OS, but most users I know are on their second or third phone.
 
2013-03-14 01:52:14 AM  

Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,


That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.
 
2013-03-14 02:05:37 AM  
Like those awesome new iOS 6 maps, that was worth the upgrade
 
2013-03-14 02:06:30 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,

That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.


Remember Kids: When your Android Phone sucks, it's never Android's fault.
 
2013-03-14 02:25:22 AM  
I still use an old Nexus One, and while they stopped updating my phone's OS, it really doesn't bother me.  I can still run any apps I get off the app store.  it doesn't have a front facing camera, but I don't skype.  I make phone calls like a normal human being.

But unfortunately for Apple, it still has free google navigation--ie something that talks to me and gets me where I need to be, has great voice quality, I can use it with my google voice service, and although I bought it with a 2-year contract with T-mobile, since their service sucked, I just transferred service to AT&T by going to the store and asking for a SIM card.  now my service is $25 a month, (no data, since I have wifi when I need it) and I have no contract.  On a smartphone as practically functional (for me) as the new iPhone 5S or whatever's fresh.  I did run into a problem with storage, which required me to buy a 16GB flash card for storage a few years back.  I was livid when I couldn't use it as an excuse to buy a whole new $300 smartphone.  really disappointing...

I'm sorry I haven't evolved the need for auto-tilt-shift, fine art photography with my phone.  I haven't gotten enough friends who'd rather skype than just text 1 line of info to me and get the message across.  I haven't had the desire to play resource hungry games released for mobile gadgets that pretend to be A-list titles.  This XBox360 seems to do the trick, there.  So maybe they should ask themselves, "why are we giving people Porches when they never go outside of their 30MPH neighborhoods."  Did they not think that people would start making more reasonable economic decisions once the smartphone new-gadget hype started dying down?
 
2013-03-14 02:32:22 AM  
For the most part, Android handset maker's strategy is to release a new handset instead of supporting the previous one. They've learned that most people *don't care* about what version of Android that they are running.
 
2013-03-14 02:39:30 AM  

Doctor Funfrock: But unfortunately for Apple, it still has free google navigation


That changed. The Google Maps free app does way more than the built-in app used to.
 
2013-03-14 03:14:28 AM  

Surool: Remember Kids: When your Android Phone sucks, it's never Android's fault.


Given how many problems are due to the carriers mucking with Android, it rarely is an issue with Android itself. And when it is? Cyanogenmod can usually fix what ails ya.
 
2013-03-14 04:07:34 AM  
The longer I've used a cellphone the fewer things I do with it.  Phone, text, surf the internet in "emergency waiting" situations.  Timer occasionally.  Take a photo, rarely, though I admit that that capability sometimes comes in handy.

The OS hardly matters to me.
 
2013-03-14 05:39:42 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,

That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.

Yes the OEM's are at fault also look at Moto and HTC
 
2013-03-14 06:11:25 AM  
"With their own data, only 16 per cent of Android users are on year-old version of the operating system," he said. "Over 50 per cent are still on software that is two years old. A really big difference."

Yawn. Fragmentation? Is that all you've got, Saruman?

Android (in terms of the API) matured a few years ago. Odds of you not being able to run an app because your OS doesn't support an API feature are very slim. Picked a few apps at random, and the latest version required was 2.2 (Froyo).
 
2013-03-14 07:11:53 AM  
Here's the problem I have with the OS fragmentation argument, which states that when you don't have the latest phone OS, you don't get all the newest features and some of the programs you can buy will not work with your outdated phone. That, apparently, is the argument against Android.

Yes, admittedly, Android has an OS fragmentation issue. However, on iOS devices, even though each device will get the update to the latest phone OS, the older devices will still not get all of the newest features (try using Siri on an iPhone 4 without jailbreaking). Plus, since the older devices don't get the newest iOS releases, many of the newer apps in the App Store won't work with the really old phones. So, what's the problem, really? It seems like both platforms have essentially the same issues, it's just couched in different terms.
 
2013-03-14 07:48:37 AM  
"With their own data, only 16 per cent of Android users are on year-old version of the operating system," he said. "Over 50 per cent are still on software that is two years old. A really big difference."

And these people still love their phones. I don't see this as a good argument against the platform.
 
2013-03-14 07:49:33 AM  
I remember when fragmentation in the UNIX market was a bad thing that would force you to buy DEC hardware.

Sounds like the same old song to me.
 
2013-03-14 07:51:02 AM  

RexTalionis: Here's the problem I have with the OS fragmentation argument, which states that when you don't have the latest phone OS, you don't get all the newest features and some of the programs you can buy will not work with your outdated phone. That, apparently, is the argument against Android.

Yes, admittedly, Android has an OS fragmentation issue. However, on iOS devices, even though each device will get the update to the latest phone OS, the older devices will still not get all of the newest features (try using Siri on an iPhone 4 without jailbreaking). Plus, since the older devices don't get the newest iOS releases, many of the newer apps in the App Store won't work with the really old phones. So, what's the problem, really? It seems like both platforms have essentially the same issues, it's just couched in different terms.


Not just that.  Apple cuts off the iOS update one version  too late for most products.  Upgrading my original iPad to iOS 4 was a memory killer on a system that lacked memory.  Beyond that, the fragmentation is mostly a techie issue anyway.  There's plently of SG2s still out there trucking along on official firmware.  And guess what?  They work!  For those that want to get adventurous, they can always go Cyanogen.
 
2013-03-14 08:02:33 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: WhyteRaven74: Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,

That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.
Yes the OEM's are at fault also look at Moto and HTC


Have to agree. Blaming Android for all the bloatware and skins is like blaming Windows for all the pre-installed crap on a new PC. If you want Android, get a Nexus. They're magnificent.
 
2013-03-14 08:09:08 AM  

MaestroQuark: RexTalionis: Here's the problem I have with the OS fragmentation argument, which states that when you don't have the latest phone OS, you don't get all the newest features and some of the programs you can buy will not work with your outdated phone. That, apparently, is the argument against Android.

Yes, admittedly, Android has an OS fragmentation issue. However, on iOS devices, even though each device will get the update to the latest phone OS, the older devices will still not get all of the newest features (try using Siri on an iPhone 4 without jailbreaking). Plus, since the older devices don't get the newest iOS releases, many of the newer apps in the App Store won't work with the really old phones. So, what's the problem, really? It seems like both platforms have essentially the same issues, it's just couched in different terms.

Not just that.  Apple cuts off the iOS update one version  too late for most products.  Upgrading my original iPad to iOS 4 was a memory killer on a system that lacked memory.  Beyond that, the fragmentation is mostly a techie issue anyway.  There's plently of SG2s still out there trucking along on official firmware.  And guess what?  They work!  For those that want to get adventurous, they can always go Cyanogen.


iOS 5+ on my 3GS has not been beneficial to the battery - the OS is expecting to run on something a lot more powerful than the older hardware can provide.
 
2013-03-14 08:39:54 AM  
a guy working for Apple pitching his product as being better than the competition?   the HORROR
 
2013-03-14 09:02:27 AM  
I still use the Galaxy S (yea, the first one). I put Cyanogen 7 on it like a year ago and I'm still happy with it. I've got an upgrade coming this summer and I'm definitely staying with Android and probably staying with Samsung.
 
2013-03-14 09:05:31 AM  
Meh, I'm running Jelly Bean.
 
2013-03-14 09:09:01 AM  
Ah, the old Apple fragmentation canard...as much as Apple may hate to admit it, they are hitting the fragmentation wall faster than they think as the people who buy their products is growing beyond the "oh my god, I must upgrade to the new hardware set from the version I bought a year ago" fan-base.

I bought a $50 iPhone 3gs in February 2011. It's pretty much refused to update past the early ios5 version due to system storage issues, and the fact that every app now comes packed with super-sized retina graphics that my phone can't use, but still eat up space on the thing. It has gotten slow and pokey with each update it had gotten (before it hit storage limits). So I don't know, I guess I'm "supposed" to upgrade my phone every two years... but as the phone has gotten more slower and chunky, it has become more and more just something to make calls on, text people, and call up maps for directions. Then again, after playing around with the Samsung Note 2, I really, REALLY like having a stylus for note taking and such. So maybe I'll go with that, but I'm not really in that much of a hurry. And again, Apple is used to their fan-base upgrading every time a new product comes out once a year, but as their casual market grows (and as the new features become more and more finely targeted and less overall useful), the upgrading path gets extended, fragmenting it.

On the other hand, my wife has an iPad1, that she bought in December 2010. It now crashes a lot and has gotten slow and pokey due the iOS updates that chew up system resources and the fact that app developers don't target that system anymore.  For whatever reason, the Apple cloud doesn't push calendar updates/phone contacts between the iPad and her iPhone 4s. I have no idea why this is, and since Apple doesn't provide me with a simple "sync" button to even try and debug it, I can't even attempt to track it down. Anyway,a little more than over 2 years old and, what, a $500 outlay, and it's fairly close to being a dead product...even though it really shouldn't be. So it's already fragmented to some extent.I get the feeling that the tablet market won't work the way the phone system works (upgrade every two years), and it'll be closer to the way a PC market works (keep using it until it becomes unusable before you upgrade, maybe 4-5 years down the road).
 
2013-03-14 09:12:21 AM  
Maybe he has a point about malware, but didn't Benjamin Franklin say something about trading liberty for security? It applies just as much to computing as it does to society in general.

Certainly, the iThings aren't immune to malware - and worse, the same exploits that allow jailbreaking also can be used by the crooks.

If I want to write my own Android apps, I don't need Google's permission (nor Samsung/HTC/whoever else). I can just toggle a setting to allow installing apps from unknown sources. Getting a certificate is only needed if I want to use Google Play for distribution. I've tried this with a VLC nightly build (it's still in beta), and it works fine. Yes, there's a scary warning when I turned it on. After installing, I can turn the switch back off (it applies to installation, not operation).

Apple is turning into the #1 threat to computing freedom (see also, the creeping iOS-ification of MacOS), and Microsoft isn't far behind.

/newcomer to real smartphones
//went with Android precisely because I don't feel like trading liberty for the illusion of security
///Galaxy S Relay - sometimes there's no substitute for a real keyboard
 
2013-03-14 10:05:19 AM  

Sgygus: The longer I've used a cellphone the fewer things I do with it.  Phone, text, surf the internet in "emergency waiting" situations.  Timer occasionally.  Take a photo, rarely, though I admit that that capability sometimes comes in handy.

The OS hardly matters to me.


Or anyone else, apparently.

cdn.iphonehacks.com
 
2013-03-14 10:08:39 AM  

digistil: drjekel_mrhyde: WhyteRaven74: Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,

That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.
Yes the OEM's are at fault also look at Moto and HTC

Have to agree. Blaming Android for all the bloatware and skins is like blaming Windows for all the pre-installed crap on a new PC. If you want Android, get a Nexus. They're magnificent.


I love my GNexus, and my Nexus 7, and I don't think I will ever go back.  The only thing I really hate is Verizon, who insists on waiting 6-8 months before releasing updates for the GNexus.  The only reasons I haven't switched carriers and to a Nexus 4 is the ETF and the fact that as long as I keep this phone, I am grandfathered into Verizon's unlimited data plan.
 
2013-03-14 12:46:43 PM  

farkeruk: "With their own data, only 16 per cent of Android users are on year-old version of the operating system," he said. "Over 50 per cent are still on software that is two years old. A really big difference."

Yawn. Fragmentation? Is that all you've got, Saruman?

Android (in terms of the API) matured a few years ago. Odds of you not being able to run an app because your OS doesn't support an API feature are very slim. Picked a few apps at random, and the latest version required was 2.2 (Froyo).


Did that official Fark app ever make it to Android?  If not, why?
 
2013-03-14 12:53:36 PM  

Driedsponge: digistil: drjekel_mrhyde: WhyteRaven74: Dinobot: . My 2 yr old android phone became totally obsolete 6 months in,

That's not an issue of the phone or Android but rather of your cell carrier.
Yes the OEM's are at fault also look at Moto and HTC

Have to agree. Blaming Android for all the bloatware and skins is like blaming Windows for all the pre-installed crap on a new PC. If you want Android, get a Nexus. They're magnificent.

I love my GNexus, and my Nexus 7, and I don't think I will ever go back.  The only thing I really hate is Verizon, who insists on waiting 6-8 months before releasing updates for the GNexus.  The only reasons I haven't switched carriers and to a Nexus 4 is the ETF and the fact that as long as I keep this phone, I am grandfathered into Verizon's unlimited data plan.


You can ditch the GNex for a new phone, but you have to buy it online for a king's ransom.

I'm seriously getting tired of the shiat battery life on my GNex and will probably pay through the nose to get something else and keep my unlimited data.
 
2013-03-14 06:31:04 PM  

Surool: I bought an iPhone 4 in 2009. It is in perfect working order. It runs the most recent OS.


That's odd since the iPhone 4 didn't come out until 2010.
 
2013-03-14 11:57:26 PM  

mjbok: Surool: I bought an iPhone 4 in 2009. It is in perfect working order. It runs the most recent OS.

That's odd since the iPhone 4 didn't come out until 2010.


Sorry, that was the non-Android Samsung with the rollout keyboard then. The iPhone 4, far from the latest and greatest model, still runs the latest OS. Still works fine in spite of me not remembering the year correctly. Came with iOS 4, running iOS 6 now several OS overhauls later. I still won't need a new phone for a long time.
 
2013-03-15 12:25:02 AM  
The way I see it Apple has the opposite problem in that they support hardware (allow OS upgrades) one generation (or longer) than they should.  OS upgrades killed many 3G iphones and the most recent OS upgrade for the original iPad makes it shiatty.

You could say "you don't need to upgrade", but honestly if the hardware won't effectively support it, upgrading should not be an option.
 
2013-03-15 09:25:11 AM  
One is plastic the other is glass & Aluminium. One had the on screen keyboard years ago the other just copied the look. So how can the copy be an "innovative" "iPhone killer?" Sorry Korea merely making cheap copies doesn't make your products as good a value as the originals. Look at Hyundai cars. Cheap copies.
 
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