If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Huffington Post)   Now that a new Pope has been selected, the Holy Church can now move on from its dark past of shame and begin a new era of......what? Aw goddammitsomuch   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 54
    More: Obvious, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, kidnappings, Jesuits, involvement  
•       •       •

22693 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 12:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-03-13 11:57:23 PM
8 votes:
Really? We're surprised that a senior member of one of the most corrupt organizations on this planet may have a skeleton or two in his closet? Hell, I'd wager that absolutely none of the cardinals are innocent of harbouring sexual predators, so what's a kidnapping or two then?
2013-03-14 12:38:09 AM
5 votes:
Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway, because as TFA says:

"Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work."

In other words, you can be accused of being an accomplice to kidnapping simply by not saying anything. Incredible.
2013-03-14 12:32:11 AM
5 votes:
TFA: Per the, "Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery." Bergoglio discussed the incident with Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer.

This is idiotic. First off, 'effectively handed them over' is not the same as sold them out. Simply because the Cardinal was smart enough to keep his mouth shut does not make him a villain in any regard (except for the James Bond-ish way). Secondly, the two priests didn't die. And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.
2013-03-14 12:39:24 AM
4 votes:
If this is all they can dig up on this guy, I'm actually encouraged.

From the sounds of the article, he merely kept his mouth shut to the ruling party about his 'subversive' activities, and when the two got grabbed, went out of his way to get them released.
2013-03-14 12:35:23 AM
4 votes:
Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.
2013-03-14 12:33:39 AM
4 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-03-14 12:57:25 AM
3 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway, because as TFA says:

"Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work."

In other words, you can be accused of being an accomplice to kidnapping simply by not saying anything. Incredible.


Anybody care to bet whether he'd be alive if he had endorsed their work to a bunch of psychopathic CIA-trained gangsters? Having a hard time getting too outraged here.
2013-03-14 12:47:58 AM
3 votes:

katerbug72: I think he looks like this Ed Wynn.
www.latimes.com



FTFM
/the new pope isn't creepy looking like the last one
2013-03-14 12:40:55 AM
3 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


oh there might be a bit of that here and there, but to be honest I think people simply lost respect for the Church after they covered up kiddie rape and got involved in various tax dodging schemes.  How are we supposed to take the church seriously now?  they covered up DECADES of kiddie rape.  they knew it was wrong and did it anyway.  you cannot claim to be any sort of moral authority after being complicit in covering up the rape of who knows how many children...
2013-03-14 12:38:40 AM
3 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


You are right. We should follow the Catholics example and be more tolerant of different lifestyles.
2013-03-14 12:05:57 AM
3 votes:
obligatory
25.media.tumblr.com
2013-03-14 12:02:29 AM
3 votes:
There is no way someone gets that high in an organization such as the Catholic Church and has no skeletons in their closet.
2013-03-14 01:24:53 AM
2 votes:

erik-k: EvilRacistNaziFascist: Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway, because as TFA says:

"Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work."

In other words, you can be accused of being an accomplice to kidnapping simply by not saying anything. Incredible.

Anybody care to bet whether he'd be alive if he had endorsed their work to a bunch of psychopathic CIA-trained gangsters? Having a hard time getting too outraged here.


This.  The junta was killing nuns and torturing priests in 1976.  The military would have rolled right over the Jesuits.
2013-03-14 01:11:31 AM
2 votes:

Mad_Radhu: I'm reserving judgement, but my first gut feeling is that Francis is genuinely a good human being, so he could be a real force for good, unlike Ratzinger who just screamed scumbag from day one.


He broke from tradition within the first five minutes of his papacy when he asked the people to pray for him first. I think it bodes well for the future of the church, but I'm cautious too. I remember reading an article that was suggesting from day 1 that Benedict would be a short, transitional pope, as the Vatican knew it had no chance of giving JP II's successor a chance at a decent legacy. If the Vatican's lucky, the pedophilia scandal will quiet and be left as part of Benedict's legacy. Whether it was a scandal, or that the Vatican is finally ready to make some substantive changes, or that they are just looking for a younger face that will relate (but not really) to the younger crowd? That we won't know until further down the line.

I like the implications for social justice, even if reproductive and LGBT rights are left on the clothes line a little longer.
2013-03-14 01:08:57 AM
2 votes:
"Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work."

He didn't do that, hombre.  Know how I know?You're not dead.
2013-03-14 12:59:21 AM
2 votes:

Therion: Hey, Hitler youth to Pinochet stooge is making progress, right?


Fluorescent Testicle: Therion: Hey, Hitler youth to Pinochet stooge is making progress, right?

Homophobic Hitler youth who possibly raped children (or at the very least, helped cover for the people who did) to homophobic Pinochet stooge who possibly kidnapped two men (or at the very least, sold them out to the people who did). Yep, that Catholic Church sure knows how to resonate with the people of today!


You know how I know you're too young to remember Pinochet?
2013-03-14 12:53:51 AM
2 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Plus who knows how many people have died of aids in Africa because of condom bans.


Yeah, I'm sure the real problem is that the men contracting AIDS by f*cking around on their wives were too pious to strap on a rubber johnny while they were doing it. Doubtless it's all the Church's fault that they opted to break the Church's teachings on sexual fidelity and abstinence outside marriage.
2013-03-14 12:39:58 AM
2 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


It's not just Catholics.  We mock Mormons too
2013-03-14 12:31:14 AM
2 votes:

MadSkillz: He looks like the guy from those Infiniti commercials back in the 90s, who was also a James Bond villain in the forgettable "Tomorrow Never Dies"


I was going to say he looks like the bad guy in The Adventures of Baron Von Munchausen. Turns out it's the same guy.
llamabutchers.mu.nu
Good call.
2013-03-14 12:30:25 AM
2 votes:
not seeing the issue here

he tried to protect his people during a time of strife, and when two got "Arrested" for breaking the "law of the land" he got in to the dictators inner circle to get his people released
2013-03-14 12:22:58 AM
2 votes:
First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.
2013-03-14 12:06:51 AM
2 votes:
Hey, Hitler youth to Pinochet stooge is making progress, right?
2013-03-14 12:22:13 PM
1 votes:

Yaxe: If we look at both Jesus (Render unto Caesar what is Caesars) and St.Augustine (Christians must serve both the wicked and the good), the actual moral dictate of Christianity is "serve the government despite it's wickedness".

 Obviously  the best form of that government should be a king or tyrant (Aquinas), but ultimately, the Christian moral doctrine is aimed toward surviving, not dying like martyrs a la St. Paul.

The church is bound by what is right, not what is legal.  It is their obligation to work with anyone, in the bounds of any legal system, so long as it is right to do so.  There's no mandate for self preservation.  There is only one calling for the Christian, doing what is right in all circumstances.  Becoming pope is not necessarily an endorsement of his previous decisions.  Likewise, it is valid to discuss whether or not the church was obligated to act, and his rationale for not doing so.  It's still a dodge to say that one person was abandoned, but others were saved.  Sin is factual, not a judgment call. We, as humans in a linear time frame of reference bound by a deterministic universe are not always able to correctly determine what sin is. Fortunately, sin is forgiven, but lessons should still be learned from it.  It seems likely to me that he knew his endorsement wasn't worth anything, and so "protecting" them meant telling them to stop putting themselves at risk.  That's a valid viewpoint.  I understand how others feel that he chose self preservation over doing what's right, and think that if he had, and they had harmed him, it may have provoked changes sooner.
2013-03-14 11:44:28 AM
1 votes:

Mr Guy: Yaxe: And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.

I'm not sure I hold him much at fault for what happened, as telling them to quit putting themselves in danger or they'd be on their own is pretty much self sufficient for his involvement.  However, that being said, yes.  The general premise is yes, good people are obligated to resist and publicly denounce horrible things, regardless of the consequences to themselves.  Forgetting that is why so many people have problems with the catholic (small c/universal) church right now; we do a crap job of publicly denouncing evil our own does, let alone evil done by authorities that have power over us and the ability to punish us for our choices.


If we look at both Jesus (Render unto Caesar what is Caesars) and St.Augustine (Christians must serve both the wicked and the good), the actual moral dictate of Christianity is "serve the government despite it's wickedness". Obviously  the best form of that government should be a king or tyrant (Aquinas), but ultimately, the Christian moral doctrine is aimed toward surviving, not dying like martyrs a la St. Paul. This is important, firstly because the new Pope actually appealed directly to the dictators to get those priests back alive, but secondly, this is also why we don't read about him as a beatified dead guy murdered when the military Junta took power in 1976 - it's (supposedly) part of Catholic dogma to avoid playing politics (obviously, loosely followed).

So, is the new Pope some evil guy who stood by and did nothing while his friends suffered? No.
2013-03-14 10:53:07 AM
1 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


Posting facts is bigotry?

You delicate flower.
2013-03-14 07:36:06 AM
1 votes:
Firstly, he's accused of this. And the accusation as has been touched on multiple times amounts to 'he got two men caught by a dictatorship... by not expressly commanding A DICTATOR to release them and/or actively supporting everything the aforementioned CAPTURED BY DICTATOR priests said. So ya. Based on the fact they aren't dead, and that this is an accusation... i'll have to say I'm somewhat more prone to be on Francis' side at this time.

Surely there are more facts to this than presented, but just the way it reads is like slander. Accused of "SENDING (by inaction that would result in harm likely befalling him) two priests INTO THE HANDS OF DEATH SQUADS (who didn't kill the priests) WHICH RESULTED IN THEM GETTING JAILED (which they were released from)" is really, really, really bad form.

HOWEVER... It looks to me like the 'saved them through plea' might itself be the other side of the coin. Is that not, correct me if I'm wrong, is that not from the Former Cardinal's autobiography? Is that really an unbiased source of information? Do we have more than his assertion that that is how everything played out? There may have been other reasons. It's just all... such shoddiness.

That said; still more in line with Francis than the other, until such time that further evidence or additional facts surface.
2013-03-14 02:29:46 AM
1 votes:

Yaxe:  And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.


Just had to comment on this: YES, that's exactly what he should have done, if he wanted to retain moral authority. Instead, he chose self-preservation, and his physical authority over his morals. I don't doubt that the situation was complicated, but ultimately cooperation or collaboration with murderous dictators is always wrong. Especially if you're in a position of power and influence and might be able to do something about it.

I don't really blame him (I'd do the same), but then again I don't claim to be the representative of the supreme moral authority for all humanity. I'd be more impressed with the church if more of these guys (bishops, cardinals, and popes) were among the ones dying for their beliefs. But in reality they are just another structure designed to dominate and control. That's why they have almost never directly confronted evil governments in recent memory...their main concern is power, not standing up for the things they claim to believe in. Funny how Catholicism preaches moral absolutes for us lowly individuals (especially when it comes to sex), but suddenly sees moral complexity and grey areas when it comes to the behavior of the church leadership.

It's not that the world isn't morally ambiguous often: it certainly is. But it's the double standard that truly exposes the RCC as the con game that it is. I actually find it sickening that so many people fawningly adore what basically amounts to a modern feudal monarchy. That an organization like the Catholic Church can still draw the respect of millions actually makes me queasy.
2013-03-14 01:34:08 AM
1 votes:

GrogSmash: If this is all they can dig up on this guy, I'm actually encouraged.

From the sounds of the article, he merely kept his mouth shut to the ruling party about his 'subversive' activities, and when the two got grabbed, went out of his way to get them released.


^^^^This.

/atheist
//former catholic
///good on the church for selecting a latino pope
////slashies
2013-03-14 01:33:22 AM
1 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway . . .


Transubstantiated on the other hand might stick.

2013-03-14 01:31:08 AM
1 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


I hate all idiotic superstitions equally, numbnuts.
2013-03-14 01:29:57 AM
1 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: Triumph: First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.

I thought Jesuits weren't supposed to be homophobic bigots.


Surprise!  Lip service to win hearts and minds != True indication of agenda.

They're Catholics.  They may say things - lie - to bring souls to God, but that is forgivable as long as they are "saving" souls.  Never trust the religious.  For a variety of reasons.
2013-03-14 01:20:21 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: DECADES of kiddie rape


Centuries.
2013-03-14 01:16:09 AM
1 votes:
Hey, he's Argentinian.  Ex-Pope Joey the Rat will be in good hands.   Argentines how to treat old retired Nazis.
2013-03-14 01:10:38 AM
1 votes:

kiwimoogle84: It's always something.

/I am jack's complete lack of surprise

imgix.8tracks.com

/The only reason they still have power is land holdings and Central and South America. I wonder how much drug money is laundered through South American Parishes.
2013-03-14 01:10:32 AM
1 votes:

Mad_Radhu: splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.

Ratzinger was a disgrace in how he actively shielded pedophile priests before he was pope. Deep down in my gut, I know there was a scandal that caused him to step down, not health issues.

Pope Francis on the other hand, leaves me cautiously optimistic. I mostly like the cut of his gib, especially in regards to his concern for the sick and the poor. His stance on gays isn't something I agree with, but at the same time I'm not sure how you can be a Cardinal and not have to toe the party line from Rome to a certain extent, despite what you may personally believe. Maybe things will be a little different now that he has the infallibility.

I'm reserving judgement, but my first gut feeling is that Francis is genuinely a good human being, so he could be a real force for good, unlike Ratzinger who just screamed scumbag from day one.


The way it works is that you don't get to be a cardinal without toeing the party line. All of the electing cardinals were named to the College by John Paul II or Benedict XVI. The process self-selects for line-toers.
2013-03-14 01:05:01 AM
1 votes:

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


Ratzinger was a disgrace in how he actively shielded pedophile priests before he was pope. Deep down in my gut, I know there was a scandal that caused him to step down, not health issues.

Pope Francis on the other hand, leaves me cautiously optimistic. I mostly like the cut of his gib, especially in regards to his concern for the sick and the poor. His stance on gays isn't something I agree with, but at the same time I'm not sure how you can be a Cardinal and not have to toe the party line from Rome to a certain extent, despite what you may personally believe. Maybe things will be a little different now that he has the infallibility.

I'm reserving judgement, but my first gut feeling is that Francis is genuinely a good human being, so he could be a real force for good, unlike Ratzinger who just screamed scumbag from day one.
2013-03-14 01:04:58 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: they've lasted THIS long, so they've gotta have some idea on how to survive.


I think the answer is surprisingly simple.

They wait. In the end, the church will still be here, and their accusers won't. Arrest a priest, execute a nun, won't matter in the end, and the faithful might even be more faithful for the martyrs. They don't necessarily need numbers at this point, just endurance.

There is something to be said for having such a long-term experience of the world.
2013-03-14 01:02:51 AM
1 votes:
There's a new pope? Sorry, was staring at the banner ad (still am ... and so are you)

www.eonline.com
2013-03-14 01:01:30 AM
1 votes:
J. Frank Parnell:
I don't think people ever had respect for the Roman Catholic Church. They ruled nonbelievers with fear of death, and their followers with fear of damnation. Now that they can't publicly execute anyone who doesn't follow them the floodgates have opened wide.

/followers, sadly, still afraid of damnation
//it's extortion


no, the church could honestly have claimed to have been a moral authority in world.  But then when we found out about the pedophilia cover up and the financial scandals it was over.  the Church lost whatever moral high ground they once had.  They've lost the right (if ever they had it in the first place) to tell other people how to live their lives or what was right and wrong.

which doesn't mean the Church won't try to recover.  i'm not sure how you go about rebuilding trust and respect in the wake of all these scandals...but I expect them to try anyway.  they've lasted THIS long, so they've gotta have some idea on how to survive.  but it wont be easy and they wont' rebuild without taking serious losses in the process.
2013-03-14 12:54:44 AM
1 votes:

Therion: Hey, Hitler youth to Pinochet stooge is making progress, right?


I thought Pinochet was Chile?
2013-03-14 12:52:06 AM
1 votes:
www.trektoday.com
/as seen on "Pope Space Nine"
//hot as a wormhole
2013-03-14 12:51:04 AM
1 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Weaver95: splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.

oh there might be a bit of that here and there, but to be honest I think people simply lost respect for the Church after they covered up kiddie rape and got involved in various tax dodging schemes.  How are we supposed to take the church seriously now?  they covered up DECADES of kiddie rape.  they knew it was wrong and did it anyway.  you cannot claim to be any sort of moral authority after being complicit in covering up the rape of who knows how many children...

Plus who knows how many people have died of aids in Africa because of condom bans.

2013-03-14 12:50:51 AM
1 votes:

Peki: farkingismybusiness: MadSkillz: He looks like the guy from those Infiniti commercials back in the 90s, who was also a James Bond villain in the forgettable "Tomorrow Never Dies"

I was going to say he looks like the bad guy in The Adventures of Baron Von Munchausen. Turns out it's the same guy.
[llamabutchers.mu.nu image 475x336]
Good call.

I can't be the only one who remembers him in Jumpin' Jack Flash.

/I'm not even that old


That movie is only two years older than Munchausen. It's just that nobody likes Whoopi Goldberg.
2013-03-14 12:47:08 AM
1 votes:
"We always said in an admiring way, that the Jesuits have formed the greatest intelligence service in the world, always have." - CIA Agent/Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt
2013-03-14 12:40:11 AM
1 votes:

farkingismybusiness: MadSkillz: He looks like the guy from those Infiniti commercials back in the 90s, who was also a James Bond villain in the forgettable "Tomorrow Never Dies"

I was going to say he looks like the bad guy in The Adventures of Baron Von Munchausen. Turns out it's the same guy.
[llamabutchers.mu.nu image 475x336]
Good call.


It's Mr. Dark (he's so much hotter with a beard.)

I think he looks like this Ed Wynn.
2013-03-14 12:39:34 AM
1 votes:
At this point I think we should be making lists of who in the Catholic Church  hasn't done something horribly bad previously...
2013-03-14 12:37:37 AM
1 votes:

Yaxe: TFA: Per the, "Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery." Bergoglio discussed the incident with Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer.

This is idiotic. First off, 'effectively handed them over' is not the same as sold them out. Simply because the Cardinal was smart enough to keep his mouth shut does not make him a villain in any regard (except for the James Bond-ish way). Secondly, the two priests didn't die. And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.



Please. This is Fark. What do you think you're doing? Take that logic shiat to The Economist letters section.
2013-03-14 12:31:16 AM
1 votes:

Triumph: First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.


I thought Jesuits weren't supposed to be homophobic bigots.
2013-03-14 12:29:06 AM
1 votes:
I just wanna know which Star Wars character we'll be using to mock him.
2013-03-14 12:28:52 AM
1 votes:
His last name looks like 'Beer Goggles'
2013-03-14 12:27:05 AM
1 votes:
It's always something.

/I am jack's complete lack of surprise
2013-03-14 12:23:24 AM
1 votes:
The priests were found "drugged and seminude, in a field"

As Catholic scandals go, I have to say I like any Pope who has a scandal attached to him that sounds like it should start with "Two Jesuits walk into a bar..."
2013-03-14 12:14:39 AM
1 votes:
Pope goes the weasel
2013-03-14 12:13:06 AM
1 votes:
it's too early yet to say which way this one is gonna jump.
 
Displayed 54 of 54 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report