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(Huffington Post)   Now that a new Pope has been selected, the Holy Church can now move on from its dark past of shame and begin a new era of......what? Aw goddammitsomuch   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 199
    More: Obvious, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, kidnappings, Jesuits, involvement  
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22697 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 12:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 01:28:15 AM  

Fano: Just that the ones that aren't did a bang up job of covering for their chum. Not to say that pesos don't exist in equal numbers in protestant churches, or any other faith. They just had organizational muscle.


And don't forget the public schools! All those teacher- student sex relationships we read about almost every week on Fark are proof that public education in itself is evil.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:36 AM  
Wow, horrible kidnappings in yet another CIA run dictatorship?

Wow the USA is aggravating.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:57 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: Triumph: First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.

I thought Jesuits weren't supposed to be homophobic bigots.


Surprise!  Lip service to win hearts and minds != True indication of agenda.

They're Catholics.  They may say things - lie - to bring souls to God, but that is forgivable as long as they are "saving" souls.  Never trust the religious.  For a variety of reasons.
 
2013-03-14 01:30:40 AM  

PatGund: Hey, he's Argentinian.  Ex-Pope Joey the Rat will be in good hands.   Argentines how to treat old retired Nazis.


Was he one of the boys from brazil

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-14 01:31:02 AM  

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


I like, almost love , one Catholic. She had her diamond jubilee anniversary a while back. Why yes, she is a nun, and a caring human being. The rest of them ? Meh.
 
2013-03-14 01:31:08 AM  

splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.


I hate all idiotic superstitions equally, numbnuts.
 
2013-03-14 01:31:56 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Well, some Catholics believe they can be accomplices to murder by providing health insurance that includes contraceptives to their employees.


The bottom line is that, whatever you might think of their opinions, they shouldn't be compelled to do anything -- least of all have to outrage their consciences by having to provide coverage for contraception when it already costs next to nothing.
 
2013-03-14 01:33:22 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway . . .


Transubstantiated on the other hand might stick.

 
2013-03-14 01:34:08 AM  

GrogSmash: If this is all they can dig up on this guy, I'm actually encouraged.

From the sounds of the article, he merely kept his mouth shut to the ruling party about his 'subversive' activities, and when the two got grabbed, went out of his way to get them released.


^^^^This.

/atheist
//former catholic
///good on the church for selecting a latino pope
////slashies
 
2013-03-14 01:35:27 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: gadian: Weaver95: DECADES of kiddie rape

Centuries.

Proof? My understanding is that the kiddie- fiddler priest problem in the Catholic Church is mostly postwar and coincidental with the rise of homosexual influence within the seminaries and subsequently the priesthood (which is why almost none of the Church's sex scandals involve the abuse of young girls). Naturally, if you have any proof to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.


I don't have a link handy but I'll be able to fetch one in a few hours.  I recall a few articles where the Cardinals and such met as early as the 1400's to officially discuss Priest misconduct with children.
 
2013-03-14 01:37:49 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Fano: Just that the ones that aren't did a bang up job of covering for their chum. Not to say that pesos don't exist in equal numbers in protestant churches, or any other faith. They just had organizational muscle.

And don't forget the public schools! All those teacher- student sex relationships we read about almost every week on Fark are proof that public education in itself is evil.


The coverup made things worse than the original crime. Do public schools routinely move pederast teachers to other districts? Probably.

Heck, I made the point in my previous post that there weren't any more pedos in the Catholic faith that the religious population as a whole.
 
2013-03-14 01:38:33 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Peki: I like the implications for social justice,

By which you mean the forcible redistribution of wealth...

even if reproductive and LGBT rights

And by "reproductive rights" you of course mean the right to prevent reproduction.


Actually, I don't. I mean the right TO have a child, in the manner of one's choosing, as well as the right to NOT have a child. Neither right is very well supported in the U.S. at the moment. Next time on Assumption Disjunction!

findthefish: You mean their illusion of the world shrouded in the vatican bubble?


Heh. They do sound a bit like the Teatards.
 
2013-03-14 01:38:56 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: There's a new pope? Sorry, was staring at the banner ad (still am ... and so are you)

[www.eonline.com image 560x415]


That is not Debra Monk
 
2013-03-14 01:40:23 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I'm reserving judgement, but my first gut feeling is that Francis is genuinely a good human being, so he could be a real force for good, unlike Ratzinger who just screamed scumbag from day one.


I really hope you're right, but the Church really hasn't earned any sort of benefit of the doubt here.

What I would like to see is him (well, his spokespeople) address and explain what really happened. If he does that and it turns out that the allegations are false or that he was trying to cover for them rather than sell them out, then I'll take back my insomnia-based biatch-snark. I usually try not to lean towards either side in he-said-she-said situations, but the Church has all the trustworthiness of a grapefruit. :P
 
2013-03-14 01:41:07 AM  
Two priests advocate violent government overthrow, another who remembers what Jesus said about living by the sword refuses to support their idea. That's a scandal alright.
 
2013-03-14 01:42:49 AM  
Yaxe:  And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta?

WWJD?
 
2013-03-14 01:43:10 AM  
www.hotflick.net
 
2013-03-14 01:43:12 AM  

Fano: Apparently the story of Juan Peron and his obscure wife is a mystery tale worthy of Paul Harvey.


It wasn't Peron, either. Apparently it was a military junta, and I can't seem to find whether or not they had a leader.
 
2013-03-14 01:43:44 AM  
I always thought the penalty for being a homosexual in the RCC was compulsary entrance into the Jesuit order.
 
2013-03-14 01:56:18 AM  

Bermuda59: So is it too early for a "Lighten up Francis" reference?


Too early? I've been WAITING for it!
 
2013-03-14 01:59:43 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Doubtless it's all the Church's fault that they opted to break the Church's teachings on sexual fidelity and abstinence outside marriage.


Those teachings have a definite effect, or the Church wouldn't waste its breath.

That means people die as a result.
 
2013-03-14 02:00:36 AM  

ideamaster: [www.hotflick.net image 850x478]



goddamned your a genius, you are the first one in this thread to post that picture.

oh shiat, kyle busch blew another motor. i guess he elected a new pope.
 
2013-03-14 02:03:55 AM  
First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.

That's the factoid I find most interesting. Why no Jesuits before? Why one now?
 
2013-03-14 02:18:47 AM  
Well you can take the Pope out of Argentina...
 
2013-03-14 02:29:46 AM  

Yaxe:  And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.


Just had to comment on this: YES, that's exactly what he should have done, if he wanted to retain moral authority. Instead, he chose self-preservation, and his physical authority over his morals. I don't doubt that the situation was complicated, but ultimately cooperation or collaboration with murderous dictators is always wrong. Especially if you're in a position of power and influence and might be able to do something about it.

I don't really blame him (I'd do the same), but then again I don't claim to be the representative of the supreme moral authority for all humanity. I'd be more impressed with the church if more of these guys (bishops, cardinals, and popes) were among the ones dying for their beliefs. But in reality they are just another structure designed to dominate and control. That's why they have almost never directly confronted evil governments in recent memory...their main concern is power, not standing up for the things they claim to believe in. Funny how Catholicism preaches moral absolutes for us lowly individuals (especially when it comes to sex), but suddenly sees moral complexity and grey areas when it comes to the behavior of the church leadership.

It's not that the world isn't morally ambiguous often: it certainly is. But it's the double standard that truly exposes the RCC as the con game that it is. I actually find it sickening that so many people fawningly adore what basically amounts to a modern feudal monarchy. That an organization like the Catholic Church can still draw the respect of millions actually makes me queasy.
 
2013-03-14 02:32:38 AM  

Mnemia: Just had to comment on this: YES, that's exactly what he should have done, if he wanted to retain moral authority.


I'm not familiar with the details of the situation, but it appears that he in fact did work against the junta.  Both you and Yaxe appear to be equating "actively" with "publicly", which isn't necessarily the case.
 
2013-03-14 02:42:11 AM  

chrylis: Mnemia: Just had to comment on this: YES, that's exactly what he should have done, if he wanted to retain moral authority.

I'm not familiar with the details of the situation, but it appears that he in fact did work against the junta.  Both you and Yaxe appear to be equating "actively" with "publicly", which isn't necessarily the case.


Agreed.   Public action often gets you nowhere but the executioner's block.  If you can do more to subvert it covertly, do things covertly.
 
2013-03-14 02:44:33 AM  

Yaxe: TFA: Per the, "Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery." Bergoglio discussed the incident with Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer.

This is idiotic. First off, 'effectively handed them over' is not the same as sold them out. Simply because the Cardinal was smart enough to keep his mouth shut does not make him a villain in any regard (except for the James Bond-ish way). Secondly, the two priests didn't die. And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.


You mean like Jesus did?  Yeah, that would be bad.
 
2013-03-14 02:56:43 AM  

Weaver95: it's too early yet to say which way this one is gonna jump.


It's gonna go nowhere.  Though there may be some interesting references to DS9 and that time they found out Kai Opaka sacrificed her own son to the Cardassians.

He kept his head down and survived, just like the church did during WWII, just like they would again if threatened by fascists.  A strike against him?  Maybe, but a minor one.  It merely proves what we already knew, his "reformer" credentials are exceedingly relative.
 
2013-03-14 03:04:47 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: gadian: Weaver95: DECADES of kiddie rape

Centuries.

Proof? My understanding is that the kiddie- fiddler priest problem in the Catholic Church is mostly postwar and coincidental with the rise of homosexual influence within the seminaries and subsequently the priesthood (which is why almost none of the Church's sex scandals involve the abuse of young girls). Naturally, if you have any proof to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.


"The Book of Gomorrah" was written by St. Peter Damian in 1051.  It detailed many sexual sins committed by clergy, including pederasty.  Linked article also describes punishments devised by St. Basil of Cesarea (322-379AD), for the cleric or monk caught making sexual advances (kissing) or sexually molesting young boys or men.  No need for punishments for crimes that haven't happened.
 
2013-03-14 03:09:36 AM  

Weaver95: splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.

oh there might be a bit of that here and there, but to be honest I think people simply lost respect for the Church after they covered up kiddie rape and got involved in various tax dodging schemes.  How are we supposed to take the church seriously now?  they covered up DECADES of kiddie rape.  they knew it was wrong and did it anyway.  you cannot claim to be any sort of moral authority after being complicit in covering up the rape of who knows how many children...


Don't forget the slavery in Ireland. Some people don't like that whole slavery thing.
Oh and there's the Hospitals of Misery thing in India too.
 
2013-03-14 03:11:12 AM  

gadian: EvilRacistNaziFascist: gadian: Weaver95: DECADES of kiddie rape

Centuries.

Proof? My understanding is that the kiddie- fiddler priest problem in the Catholic Church is mostly postwar and coincidental with the rise of homosexual influence within the seminaries and subsequently the priesthood (which is why almost none of the Church's sex scandals involve the abuse of young girls). Naturally, if you have any proof to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.

I don't have a link handy but I'll be able to fetch one in a few hours.  I recall a few articles where the Cardinals and such met as early as the 1400's to officially discuss Priest misconduct with children.


Don't bother, I got it covered back to the 4th Century.
 
2013-03-14 03:19:54 AM  
Let's keep this meme going!

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-14 03:24:15 AM  

cloud_van_dame: First Jesuit pope ever. That probably won't garner much discussion.

That's the factoid I find most interesting. Why no Jesuits before? Why one now?


Well, they've only been around for about 550 years, so that cuts them out of the running for 3/4 of the the time the Church has existed. The do have some strict conservative members, but most of them break pretty liberal (relatively speaking, at least). Also, they tend to be much more likely to openly question Church Dogma due to the fact that each and every one is highly educated. The order actually got suppressed for about ten years in the late 18th century.
 
2013-03-14 03:26:39 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: Yaxe: TFA: Per the, "Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery." Bergoglio discussed the incident with Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer.

This is idiotic. First off, 'effectively handed them over' is not the same as sold them out. Simply because the Cardinal was smart enough to keep his mouth shut does not make him a villain in any regard (except for the James Bond-ish way). Secondly, the two priests didn't die. And thirdly, What was the Cardinal supposed to do? Actively work against the ruling military junta? This is stupid media bullshiat at its finest.

You mean like Jesus did?  Yeah, that would be bad.


Jesus had a mission, which was to die three years after he came out in opposition to the status quo.  This Cardinal's mission was different and longer-term.
 
2013-03-14 03:34:43 AM  

phlegmmo: obligatory
[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x268]


STFU, FLOWER!!

image.shutterstock.com
 
2013-03-14 03:36:26 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Has anyone noticed that this article is basically about throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated sh*t at the Pope in case any of it sticks? Nothing was ever proved, but we get to basically tar and feather this guy anyway, because as TFA says:

"Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work."

In other words, you can be accused of being an accomplice to kidnapping simply by not saying anything. Incredible.


Maybe if you read about how he ducked & dodged and avoided even giving any testimony, that tells you he knows he's damn farking guilty.
 
2013-03-14 04:07:08 AM  

thenumber5: not seeing the issue here

he tried to protect his people during a time of strife, and when two got "Arrested" for breaking the "law of the land" he got in to the dictators inner circle to get his people released


And for this act of valor he will be excoriated by the HuffPo and Fark, bastions of virtue both.
 
2013-03-14 04:10:02 AM  

Yaxe: TFA: Secondly, the two priests didn't die.


Man, can this guy (who everyone here just learned existed 13 hours ago and have dismissed accordingly) do ANYthing right?  He "hands [them] over to death squads" and no death happens? I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the media narrative here, it must be that the guy is a soulless creep.
 
2013-03-14 04:13:34 AM  

MrEricSir: splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.

Misuse of the word "bigotry" is popular again I see.

Ghastly: Weaver95: splohn: Let the smearing continue.  Anti-Catholic bigotry is popular again I see.

oh there might be a bit of that here and there, but to be honest I think people simply lost respect for the Church after they covered up kiddie rape and got involved in various tax dodging schemes.  How are we supposed to take the church seriously now?  they covered up DECADES of kiddie rape.  they knew it was wrong and did it anyway.  you cannot claim to be any sort of moral authority after being complicit in covering up the rape of who knows how many children...

Don't forget the slavery in Ireland. Some people don't like that whole slavery thing.
Oh and there's the Hospitals of Misery thing in India too.


The nonpartisan report on Ireland just came out a few weeks ago.  Shockingly, the slavery thing was all but debunked.
 
2013-03-14 04:17:47 AM  
Huffington Post has updated their story. Depending on whom you talk to, Francis either conspired with the junta in the kidnapping of the two priests, or he intervened with the junta to save their lives.

On the basis that Francis was once a Jesuit, my guess is that he did both.
 
2013-03-14 04:42:04 AM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
Mind blown.
 
2013-03-14 04:49:22 AM  

Mnemia: I don't really blame him (I'd do the same), but then again I don't claim to be the representative of the supreme moral authority for all humanity. I'd be more impressed with the church if more of these guys (bishops, cardinals, and popes) were among the ones dying for their beliefs. But in reality they are just another structure designed to dominate and control. That's why they have almost never directly confronted evil governments in recent memory...their main concern is power, not standing up for the things they claim to believe in. Funny how Catholicism preaches moral absolutes for us lowly individuals (especially when it comes to sex), but suddenly sees moral complexity and grey areas when it comes to the behavior of the church leadership.


You realize, of course, that the ones out there dying for their beliefs are seldom able to rise far enough in the power structure to become cardinals and popes? Speaking out against a fascist military junta, getting sent to a concentration camp and executed for the things you believe in, while absolutely moral and noble, is going to tend to prevent your being elected Pope later on, even if the guy who DOES become Pope is slightly less moral than the guy rotting in a shallow grave somewhere in Colombia.

I realize the point you're trying to make, despite the snarkiness in the above paragraph; but you do see the inherent contradiction in what you're saying, I hope. Standing up for one's beliefs is relatively easy in America or most of Europe; directly confronting an "evil government" as you say where that evil government makes a practice of killing its foes is not. Survival in such an area means moderating and compromising and often choosing to be silent so that the evil can be reported on or so that, as apparently in this case, the evil leader can be appealed to when necessary. Suppose the then-Cardinal had been tagged as a rabble-rouser and troublemaker when he needed to be able to step in and get the junta to free the priests? They'd be dead, is what would have happened. It may have meant playing along with the junta earlier; but that is also a part of leadership, unfortunately. At least in today's complex world.

It would, of course, be nicer if the Cardinal had stood up in the Plaza and demanded the junta had released his brother priests and shouted his outrage over the conduct of the junta; that might have worked in 1500 when people still believed in the power of the Church to send your soul to Hell. Today, it would have gotten the Cardinal a spot in the ditch next to the bodies of the other two priests, I'm afraid. As it is, morality coexists uneasily with pragmatism.
 
2013-03-14 05:03:28 AM  
"They surfaced five months later, drugged and seminude, in a field,"


i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-14 05:06:16 AM  
Pope is coming out?
 
2013-03-14 05:12:43 AM  
So his parents are Italians yet he is an outsider?
 
2013-03-14 05:27:36 AM  

phlegmmo: obligatory
[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x268]


congrats on your understanding of proper apostrophe usage that you learned from a cartoon.

Your home town is probably so proud.  Its probably planning a big "Home of Phlegmmo - Apostrophe Professional" sign to put at It's entrance.  I'ts really a shame than no sane people you know cares.
 
2013-03-14 05:59:50 AM  

katerbug72: katerbug72: I think he looks like this Ed Wynn.
[www.latimes.com


Reminds me of Yogi Berra, actually. Even started out kinda sounding like him, in that "wherever I came from, here I am" way.

/New pope has only got one lung, pass it on
// Papa One Lung Frank
///POLF to his pals
//// Slashies
 
2013-03-14 06:06:27 AM  
Call me old fashioned, but is it too much to expect that God's infallible representative on earth would take a principled Jesus-like stand against killing and repression rather than doing nothing, or worse, even participating in it??
 
2013-03-14 06:20:16 AM  
Being a martyr is great for the history books, but affects little change in the present.
 
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