Ebbelwoi: Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar./Realize what type of place you patron//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereofJeez what is it with you wise crackers. People frickin travel. Usually for business. Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES. We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.
JVD: In the bartender's defense, vodka belongs nowhere near a martini.
mccallcl: Kahabut: Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way. YOU farkING WORK FOR ME. I pay you to bring me what I ask for. If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care. They work for the owner of the establishment and in some cases, design the menus, source ingredients, design the interior and do hiring and firing. If making you happy subverts what the establishment is designed to do, it may be more expensive than just letting you leave pissed off. If the employee is extremely talented, it may be more expensive to have him put up with your attitude than just throw you out on your ear.Also, you shouldn't think of other people this way, it shows in your demeanor and they can tell. No sense in degrading another person, you're not royalty, you still have to respect others and their opinions even if you have managed to accumulate enough money to visit a restaurant.
grimlock1972: A bartenders needs to keep his or her opinions on the drink that are ordered to themselves. make the drink and move on to the next order.if you tell me my choice of drink sucks guess who isn't going to get tipped.
hideous: The problem as I see it is this. When the d-bag bartender 'refused to make the drink', all the customers in the article just took it. The woman's father ordered 3 times? The solution is one of two things.1. I'd like a rum and coke.(sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablablaOk (customer walks out, goes somewhere else, does not reward this behavior)and/or2. I'd like a run and coke(Sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablablaGreat. Go get your manager. (manager sees money. Let him know yours is walking out the door, and why, and watch that bullshiat stop right there.)
gibbon1: A bartender that won't make a simple drink off menu is basically a turd. And probably still lives at home.
sycraft: Alcohol snobs are always some of the funniest people to me. I've never got why it matters so much to them if people's taste in booze differs from theirs. To me, it seems like they really aren't all that secure in their tastes. Any time someone brings something different from what they want they perceive it as a challenge to what they like. They worry that they might be having the "wrong" drink.
Mechdemon: If I wanted a unique drinking experience, I wouldn't be out at some loud-ass bar where I cant even hear myself think.
Subliterati: alienated:Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.It's called Żubrówka and it's really nice mixed with pressed apple juice. The only vodka in my house.
Cork on Fork: Subliterati: alienated:Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.It's called Żubrówka and it's really nice mixed with pressed apple juice. The only vodka in my house.I recently read about this and was excited to try it, but then saw that the real stuff is banned in the US.
Kahabut: Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way. YOU farkING WORK FOR ME. I pay you to bring me what I ask for. If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care.
Cerebral Knievel: Z-clipped: cptjeff: Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...Nice! It's good to see someone in the thread who understands what mixology is.I was involved with restaurants that took this approach to food and drink for quite a long time, and had to work out lots of ways to curb the frustration people would experience when they were forced to try something new because I just didn't have the ingredients they were expecting. Most of the time people were willing to come along for the ride, and they usually left knowing a lot more about spirits (or bitters, or vegetables, or cured meat, or whatever) then they did when they came in. But there were always a few jackasses that just couldn't accept the idea of a bar refusing to cater to the lowest common denominator. ("You don't have Stoli OR Goose?... OR pineapple juice?? This place sucks!")I actually know a lot of the best in the business in your city and the surrounding area. Do you ever get up to Baltimore? I have some friends up there who make pretty slammin' cocktails. A lot of professional and semi-professional brewers and distillers. One of them runs a semi-secret pop-up speakeasy that specializes in throwback cocktails. We'll be neighbors when I get back from SE Asia next month. If you ever want to check it out and can't find it on your own, shoot me an email and I'll hook you up.Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown. Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )I'm going to be up the road in DC for the Craft Brewers Conference next week, ill try to hit that Ramen joint.Of course, i live just down the road in Richmond, so i really don't need an excuse for a day trip. Hopefully the beer I make will be available in DC proper this year. Right now we're in northern Va, and Baltimore and Baltimore county
bunner: There is a limited amount of things we actually need or can use, so every so often, some dick scratcher has to try and come up with a way to make it all look new. Once you have lived long enough to not only accept the fact the daily trappings of existence - food, liquids, shelter, entertainment - are inherently limited and, as far as quality, subjective and that you are very happy with the things that you know you like, marketing stops working on you. That's why the ostentatiously hip and pissy are all young. It not only still works on them but they are very worried about liking things that others don't approve of, plus - bonus - they have no idea what they like yet. This is a constant source of amusement to those of us who can find their ass with both hands. Thank you and keep up the good work
Cerebral Knievel: no need to be ashamed., It's Legend Brewing Company, our marketing budget was for the longest time, mak a good beer, and it speaks for itself.. well... with the new explosion of craft beer, we'vve suddenly have had to start learning how to shout!we've been in business for 20 years now, and we've always been up on NorVa, but limited. putting out 15kbbls a year now, so much more available.I try not to talk directly of the brewery here on Fark to avoid sounding Spamy but booze is my biz, along with everything that goes along with that, But If ever asked directly... there ya go.when you get back to the states, come on down to Richmond town and take the Saturday free tour of the beer mines, I'm the tour guide.
WhiskeyBoy: cptjeff:Seriously folks, they have the cheaper sling whatever crappy drinks you want places in NYC too- these are the equivalent of fine dining. You order something nice, not tasteless shiat to get hammered. If that's not your scene, fine. But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.I don't get why this is so hard to understand. The gourmet concept travels across all manner of food and drink. The entire gourmet industry has basically set itself up on one-upping the next guy. Any restaurant or bar has the right to deny you service, and you have the right to refuse to be a patron of any establishment you dislike. It's that simple. Granted, it sounds like the douchey bartender could at least be a little more considerate in explaining the concept of a "gourmet" bar to their confused patrons.
Z-clipped: Education is part of appreciation. The reason you see a lot of younger people getting into high-end craft-related things like these cocktails isn't because of marketing. (People drink Grey Goose Bloody Marys because of marketing). It's because young people are more willing to leave their comfort zone and learn new things than older people are.Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Eddie Ate Dynamite: Shut up and give me my Everclear and red Gatorade, asshole./Because I want to get drunk RIGHT NOW//And I may have to do some running later///Electrolytes!
DarkSoulNoHope: *THIS* bar on the other hand has name brand liquors on the counter to take up space (probably makes the bar selection look good to lure in people with Facebook pictures),
DarkSoulNoHope: A salesman makes suggestions to the customer in order to broaden their horizons, show them something that they might not think about trying and/or purchasing on their own, to increase sales. A salesman does not refuse to sell to a customer on the basis that the customer is willing to purchase something but not the exact thing that the salesman wanted the customer to purchase.
Z-clipped: DarkSoulNoHope: *THIS* bar on the other hand has name brand liquors on the counter to take up space (probably makes the bar selection look good to lure in people with Facebook pictures),By "THIS bar" do you mean Apothéke? I've never been, but photos of the bar don't show a large array of the usual suspects, and I don't see any vodka at all. Looking at their website, my professional experience gives me the impression that they're doing it right, not trying to lure people in with promises of Stoli Vanil and Coke, and then pulling a switcheroo and trying to force them to drink a French 75.As for a cocktail menu, yes, what you describe is how many good mixology bars do it. Tonique in New Orleans has a 10-page menu with extensive historical background on most of their cocktails (and probably the gruffest bartender I've ever met, but I don't blame him considering the idiots who come walking into the place off of Bourbon St.).Apothéke OTOH seems to have built themselves on a theme of "prescriptions", where the bartender gets a feel for what you like, and then creates something unique off-the-cuff to fit your personal tastes. I think that sounds like a lot of fun, and would definitely go to check out their chops. But if I was in the mood to drink a beer (or a vodka soda), I'd have the sense to go somewhere else, for the same reason that I wouldn't go to Alinea or Minibar if I were in the mood for comfort food.If you're talking about the bar at Prime Meats, I don't know what to tell you. Never been there. They may very well be a bunch of douchebags. They DO have a decent looking cocktail menu though.Death + Company practically founded the cocktail revival movement in this area. If you walk into that bar without knowing where you are, you deserve whatever you get. Those guys don't screw around, and they've been doing craft cocktails for long enough that people should know better.I don't know... for every really cutting edge place that's trying to hone an ...
Z-clipped: I know it's hard for some people to understand, but these bars aren't operating with the intention to just move as much product as possible... They're providing a service and a product that they feel meets their standard of integrity. It's not the customer's place to insist that they lower their standards or conform to a particular concept just because, as someone else in the thread said, they have $20.
DarkSoulNoHope: As for Death + Company, I don't know who would really want to go to a place called Death + Company other than morbid people like me! (Joking of course, I am sure it's quite popular among the mixed drink crowds as you claim) Maybe they should change the name to Brain Cell Destruction + Company? :-D
Z-clipped: DarkSoulNoHope: As for Death + Company, I don't know who would really want to go to a place called Death + Company other than morbid people like me! (Joking of course, I am sure it's quite popular among the mixed drink crowds as you claim) Maybe they should change the name to Brain Cell Destruction + Company? :-DWhy "Death & Co."? It's an allusion to the portrayal of alcohol by Temperance movement:[www.fasttrackteaching.com image 446x630][ncpedia.org image 384x360]From their website:In 1919 the Volstead Act brought a swift end to nightlife, and the refined craft of the American bartender was outlawed. It was thought that to drink alcohol was to live a life shadowed by death. It was thought by some that these were death and company. It's taken us nearly a century for us to restore flavor to the drink and class to specialty cocktails. In our time, a night to celebrate life's simple pleasures with fine wine, exquisitely crafted cocktails, beautifully prepared food and impeccable sipping spirits is a rare gift. To those who shun the night, we tip our hat. To those who shine after dusk, we offer a warm embrace. Welcome to the new golden age. Welcome to Death & Co.
DarkSoulNoHope: Maybe a sign over the bar and/or on the menu stating that, "We reject customer requests for boring liquor orders at the bartender's (or "mixologist's" if you want to use that stupid term, IMHO) discretion."
DarkSoulNoHope: It's not the customer requesting that the bar conforms to a particular concept,
DarkSoulNoHope: As for your argument about hair, it would be my hair, not the stylist's choice to make at the end if I decided to shave mine off. They could refuse to do the job and lose the business if they so choose to, but they would be warning that customer in advance
DarkSoulNoHope: but will be happy to sell you the Papst Blue Ribbon that's on tap if you request it!
Z-clipped: Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.
bunner: Z-clipped: Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.No, it's wonderful. However, at the end of the day, yes the value of that craft is still reasonably subjective and if you stock old panther piss and somebody orders old panther piss, you pour it and make sure they have a bevnap. I have found that most truly artistic or artisan efforts are seldom indexed to something else. Precedent is a valid aspect of any craft, but it's seldom the point to the product.
Z-clipped: Bear in mind, this thread isn't really about the choices bartenders are making. It's about the choices business owners are making.
Z-clipped: I hear you. I think my point ultimately goes back to professional integrity, and the fact that a lot of people apparently think it's something that doesn't or shouldn't exist in the service industry.
thamike: It isn't about craftsmanship at that point, it's about dominance. It's hostility.
thamike: People who think other people's service jobs are inferior and that therefore they are inferior people are undoubtedly assholes. But then again, so are service industry workers who talk about their "craft" as if they are actors (same goes for "actors" who talk about their "craft").
Fano: I just want some fresh wine. None of that old stuff. Maybe a nice muscatel.
NaziKamikaze: Except that's not a good comparison.It's like going to Chez Paul and ordering a steak well done. Or with A1. Whatever, it's their meal/money. They may be making a tasteless order and are a moron for it, but you can fulfill their order and are a bigger moron for not doing so.
Z-clipped: Have you actually spent any time with the kind of people you're talking about?
Z-clipped: Bartenders make cocktails. Carpenters make chairs. Potters make bowls. Chefs make food.
thamike: Z-clipped: Bartenders make cocktails. Carpenters make chairs. Potters make bowls. Chefs make food.Two of these are service industry workers, the other two are craftsmen. And while I think that the preparation food and drink employs craftsmanship, I'll guarantee you (as someone who has been all of these) that waiters, bartenders, and cooks don't openly refer to their jobs as "crafts" without meeting peals of laughter from their colleagues.
Scrotastic Method: Wait, you've been a potter? I don't believe you.And yes, if you're very good at something, the art of it matters to you, and you find an audience that appreciates the art. All chefs are not equal, just as, say, Jimi Hendrix and that goofball on the subway platform or the douche in the band that played your wedding are not equal guitar players. Do you really think that proper chefs and fine carpenters are merely "service industry," right there alongside Wal-Mart greeters and gas pumpers? You want to lump Ferran Adria and Alain Ducasse or whoever alongside the guy in a white jacket at Bennigan's, well, that's your mistake.
thamike: Referring to "my craft" in mixed company is obnoxious.
thamike: Take a breath and remember where you are.
thamike: Two of these are service industry workers, the other two are craftsmen.
thamike: I'll guarantee you (as someone who has been all of these) that waiters, bartenders, and cooks don't openly refer to their jobs as "crafts" without meeting peals of laughter from their colleagues.
thamike: Pretense and self congratulatory jargon is for non-professionals.
thamike: Best line I ever heard a chef say was, around 8:30 on a Friday night, "Gwyneth Paltrow wants to see me? I want to come on her face."
Scrotastic Method: And yes, if you're very good at something, the art of it matters to you, and you find an audience that appreciates the art. All chefs are not equal, just as, say, Jimi Hendrix and that goofball on the subway platform or the douche in the band that played your wedding are not equal guitar players. Do you really think that proper chefs and fine carpenters are merely "service industry," right there alongside Wal-Mart greeters and gas pumpers? You want to lump Ferran Adria and Alain Ducasse or whoever alongside the guy in a white jacket at Bennigan's, well, that's your mistake.
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