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(NYPost)   New York City presents: the douchetender. Coming soon to a bar near you   (nypost.com) divider line 305
    More: Asinine, New York City, Carroll Gardens, Bombay Sapphire  
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17524 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 1:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 12:02:01 AM
That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.
 
2013-03-14 12:13:51 AM
Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.
 
2013-03-14 12:42:10 AM
questionablecontent.net

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..
 
2013-03-14 01:12:43 AM
But vodka sodas are moron drinks...
 
2013-03-14 01:15:24 AM

factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.


Blister in the Sun is bad request for a cover band? I'd have only thought so because they might not know it...

/hangs head in shame
 
2013-03-14 01:17:02 AM
"How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys with all the money will have found someplace else.

But hey, why should I ruin all your fun?
 
2013-03-14 01:17:49 AM
The important thing is to stay angry.
 
2013-03-14 01:18:00 AM
"In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want," she continues. "I was insulted."

Why???  Why the fark would you buy anything from someone who just insulted you?  You're in farking New farking York farking City for farking fark's sake!  There are other bars!  Go to another bar where they don't treat you like shiat.
 
2013-03-14 01:18:39 AM

Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..


Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.
 
2013-03-14 01:20:47 AM
I will make it my life mission to travel to these establishments and request a Miller High Life, my favorite beverage. Come at me bro.

/Miller Low Life. Because I am one.
 
rpl
2013-03-14 01:21:15 AM
 
2013-03-14 01:21:56 AM

Klippoklondike: That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.


Where are these free pool places you speak of?
 
2013-03-14 01:25:58 AM
Alcohol snobs are always some of the funniest people to me. I've never got why it matters so much to them if people's taste in booze differs from theirs. To me, it seems like they really aren't all that secure in their tastes. Any time someone brings something different from what they want they perceive it as a challenge to what they like. They worry that they might be having the "wrong" drink.

Something tells me no establishment to does this will survive for all that long. Whatever snobby crowd it attracts will move on when suddenly what the bar is doing is uncool.
 
2013-03-14 01:26:15 AM
The NY Post is the daily mail of the US. I doubt any of this is actually happening. So many boring shiatty links to drive me off to reddit.
 
2013-03-14 01:26:46 AM

magneticmushroom: Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..

Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.


Faye reminds me a LOT of some of my Southern friends who are generally broken, but I think I would much rather hang with Hanners. I have experience in dealing with those variety of neuroses.

To date? probably none of them... *maybe* Marbear, if Momo and I could get her to clean her act up.

/Works in a "Library" of sorts... selling books though.
//Has my own Sarlaac Pit Of Platonic Frustration.
 
2013-03-14 01:28:14 AM
"In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want,"

Because you are a foppish twunt.
 
2013-03-14 01:28:24 AM
99.9% of us are only assholes after you don't tip. I've run across several bartenders like this though, that feel entitled because they're the bartender and they're in NYC. Fark that crap.

/Bartender in both gay and straight bars for 5 years
//Not working in nightlife anymore, I got sick of never seeing sunlight. Or seeing sunlight on New Years Day, which was my last day
///I was pale as paper before, during, and now after
 
2013-03-14 01:28:56 AM
I'd like to go to that bar just so I could order real obscure cocktails and have him fail.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:28 AM
That's why I like Detroit.  They'll serve you anything and be happy about it.
 
2013-03-14 01:29:40 AM
To Hipsters. The cause of, but not the solution to, all of life's problems!

www.rifuture.org
 
2013-03-14 01:33:30 AM

spaten: Klippoklondike: That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.

Where are these free pool places you speak of?


Would enjoy that, too! If they actually had pool tables LOL

I just order a triple Beam or Crown and top it off with Coke (usually room for about half a shot of Coke or so, sometimes less depending on how good the bartender is.. lol) and I'm happy.

/Usually the only places around this area that have "free pool" nights only have one or two pool tables... so it's like saying 'free food' and tossing 4 or 5 day-old bologna sandwiches on the damned floor.  Seriously, who the hell would want to put their name up on the board and wait around an hour or more to save a whopping 75 cents to $1.50 (depending on the bar) for a game of pool? MOST people would drink at least good 4-5 (or MORE) beers while waiting, so you would not save a cent.
 
2013-03-14 01:35:37 AM
I'm kind of in the same vein as a few snobby TV food personalities are in this type of setup:

The chef/bartender has done their craft for "X" years and finally has control (normally) over the menu, they know what they chose and why in each and every item. If you want to order something from them and start going off like my sister and telling them to hold everything but the meat, they have a bit of a right to get irked with you. There's a reason Japan has so many great foods, it's ingrained into their culture that asking for subsitutions/whatnot is seen as a slap in the face to the chef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase
 
2013-03-14 01:37:34 AM
"vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.
 
2013-03-14 01:38:01 AM
NY Post.  Yeah, not buying it.
 
2013-03-14 01:39:12 AM

GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.


The reporter is a farking weak willed derp, and the bartender is a prissy moron who forgets his role.
 
2013-03-14 01:41:45 AM

Yogimus: GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

The reporter is a farking weak willed derp, and the bartender is a prissy moron who forgets his role.


I think the whole piece is yellow journalism bullshiat designed to rile up people who live in small towns. People who know better understand bartenders are way too busy to worry about shiat like this.
 
2013-03-14 01:42:50 AM

Klippoklondike: That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.


And the Jukebox is usually stocked full of non-douche music with the mandatory playing of One Bourbon, One Scotch, One beer every two hours.
 
2013-03-14 01:43:57 AM
Considering I've been places where I had to instruct the bartenders on how to make a proper martini, this is the other extreme of the spectrum. Let's all find a happy medium and whatever the fark we want to drink.
 
2013-03-14 01:44:17 AM
I ordered a frozen mudslide at Fridays once. The bartender got really upset at me and questioned my manhood. Dude, you work at Fridays, make me my damn frozen mudslide.

/still tipped, cuz you know, he works at Fridays, he needs the money more than me.
 
2013-03-14 01:47:04 AM
I bartended for ten years. I only gave attitude to people who were rude or were bothering other customers. When you work for tips, you'd be an idiot to try and make your customers feel abused. When you've been talking to someone a while, you might rib them a little about ordering an extra dirty Chopin martini or a Bulleit and coke, but even then you don't go overboard; you still make the drink as best you can.

If I went to a bar and they gave me crappy gin instead of whiskey or something: BYE!

It is possible the people the author made up were just huge douches and the bartenders were trying to get rid of them... This article sounds very similar to the articles of that newspaper reporter that got caught faking articles and was outed by fact-checkers after they found she had been habitually fabricating quotes and people for years. Not saying it is necessarily so, but seems to be a strong possibility.

One reason I say this is the author uses the word "artisanal" in their own voice, then a paragraph or two later it shows up in a quote from Steve.

I'm not saying all of it sounds fabricated, I'm sure the bar owners / employees interviewed are for real, he could get into too much trouble too easily by faking that stuff--but the stories of the people wronged by bartenders just seem too convenient. I'd be interested in finding out how he got the stories. Did he post an online invitation like: "Send me your bartender horror stories?" Because if he did: he likely got a bunch of malarkey.

Hell, in a couple of hours you'll be able find a bunch of fictitious bullsquat in this very thread. (And some real bullsquat, too.) Kids--can YOU spot the steaming turd?
 
2013-03-14 01:48:36 AM
I wonder what would happen if someone at this bar orders a bud light with a lemon on top.
 
2013-03-14 01:48:39 AM
Never until now have I wished for James Bond to be a real dude, and for him to Walter PPK that hypocritical dipshiat then and there.
 
2013-03-14 01:51:27 AM

Gyrfalcon: "How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys with all the money will have found someplace else.

But hey, why should I ruin all your fun?


Done in six. Selling alcohol is all about making the customer feel good. I have shown a lot of folks some high end beers or vodkas or whatever. Many buy what I have shown or recommended, many have not.
Hell, when they go for the 12 pack of PBR cans after I spent 10 mins showing them a few craft brews and giving detailed desciptions- I still wish them a g'day. With a smile. I need to sell both products, and I really dont care if one likes they lower end products. A sale is a sale.
 
2013-03-14 01:52:02 AM
thelionthewitchandthewardrobemalfunctioned.files.wordpress.com

What'll it be?
 
2013-03-14 01:52:03 AM
I don't see a problem here. Any bar that has multiple sizes of ice isn't a place one can generally afford to get drunk. And face it, mixing vodka into your soda doesn't sound like a good idea when you're sober.
 
2013-03-14 01:52:12 AM

Yogimus: GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

The reporter is a farking weak willed derp, and the bartender is a prissy moron who forgets his role.


I agree. I understand what the bartender is saying about drinking alcoholic beverages that hide the flavor, but still, they're customers! Suggest to them something different, see if they're interested, and if not serve them their boring or flavor masking drink! The reporter there is probably just supposed to be reporting on the phenomena of "douchetenders", but don't accept something totally different from what you ordered just because the bartender tells you what you will have to drink, you tell HIM what you want to drink!  If there is a bottle there of the stuff, point it out to him and say, "Well thanks for the suggestion, but I want Bombay Sapphire. If you don't want to serve it, don't have it available at your bar on the shelf to pretend to show off how "well" your bar is stocked!"
 
2013-03-14 01:55:10 AM
I dunno, maybe as opposed to calling stuff trash drink and insulting your customers, you offer something in the same vein that is up to your "standards". Even offer a sample of the cocktail or something, you know, show the customer you care.
 
2013-03-14 01:56:13 AM

Phil Moskowitz: The NY Post is the daily mail of the US. I doubt any of this is actually happening. So many boring shiatty links to drive me off to reddit.


Oh, it's happening. What the article doesn't mention is that the bars which aren't apologetic about it are charging $16 for a cocktail - an outrageous price even here. You should know you're being douched the second you see the cocktail menu. If not, you're probably a douche yourself and will enjoy the humiliation as "education."
 
2013-03-14 01:56:39 AM
"The rum and Coke is "a hideous waste of rum," says Phil Ward. "All you taste is the Coke."

If that's true then you're either using watered down rum or you mix weak drinks.
 
2013-03-14 01:58:59 AM

ReapTheChaos: "The rum and Coke is "a hideous waste of rum," says Phil Ward. "All you taste is the Coke."

If that's true then you're either using watered down rum or you mix weak drinks.


This!

/Blackheart and Diet Coke please.
 
2013-03-14 02:01:11 AM
My biggest Manhattan bar Faux Paux was when I was stuck near the door of a dive bar and I decided to start carding people walking in. I wasn't a dick about it, I just looked at their ID's, then welcomed them in.

The bartender saw me doing it and freaked out, threatening to call the Police. I told him to go ahead.

Sure, I shouldn't have been doing it. But I didn't turn anyone away. Hey, free bouncer.
 
2013-03-14 02:01:45 AM

sycraft: Alcohol snobs are always some of the funniest people to me. I've never got why it matters so much to them if people's taste in booze differs from theirs. To me, it seems like they really aren't all that secure in their tastes. Any time someone brings something different from what they want they perceive it as a challenge to what they like. They worry that they might be having the "wrong" drink.

Something tells me no establishment to does this will survive for all that long. Whatever snobby crowd it attracts will move on when suddenly what the bar is doing is uncool.


I don't know... coworker was telling me yesterday about his favorite Irish pub that kicked out two newcomers after they not only ordered Bud Light, but then asked for limes.

Then again, that sounded like the kind of place where the bartender is the owner and once you're in his good graces you're not gonna go anywhere else.  That business model survives just fine.  Fad of the month stuff, eh, probably not.
 
2013-03-14 02:01:45 AM
Some days I want a neat sipping tequila that will last for half an hour while I savor the delightful notes of oak and whatever other bullshiat. And sometimes I just want a damn rum and Coke so I can forget for a few hours that life is cruel. If I want your snobby-ass opinion I will ask for it. Otherwise give me my damn brain-altering chemical in the form I asked you for.
 
2013-03-14 02:03:04 AM

Shadow Blasko: magneticmushroom: Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..

Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.

Faye reminds me a LOT of some of my Southern friends who are generally broken, but I think I would much rather hang with Hanners. I have experience in dealing with those variety of neuroses.

To date? probably none of them... *maybe* Marbear, if Momo and I could get her to clean her act up.

/Works in a "Library" of sorts... selling books though.
//Has my own Sarlaac Pit Of Platonic Frustration.


I have some Hannelore-ish tendencies myself. Whenever a bartender asks me what I want, I ask them what they recommend, assuming that they, as professional bartenders, must know more than I, a mere drinker.

Strangely enough, everything suggested has been delicious. There's a thing called a Dark n' Stormy, which is rum and ginger beer, that I've been coming back and ordering happily for weeks.
 
2013-03-14 02:04:01 AM
Sorry guys but Bruno Mooshei is dead thirteen years, and we burned his DNA.
 
2013-03-14 02:04:20 AM

factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.


You'd have more of a reason to tell them to fark off, everyone in the place has to listen to their song request. My drink on the other hand won't affect anyone else, so those bartenders should just shut up and do their job.

Also the bartender's assumption that what they believe tastes good must taste good for everyone is retarded. (Yah I said the R word).
 
2013-03-14 02:05:00 AM

factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.


No, and they'd probably give you a pretty nice bourbon.

The disdain is for idiots who go into a craft cocktail bar and order something without taste. Your "premium" vodka is a marketing scam, not a quality drink. And they're not going to serve you a Bud Light.

The Snow Dog: When you work for tips, you'd be an idiot to try and make your customers feel abused. W


These guys are not working for tips in a dive bar. These guys are making $15 cocktails for a clientele that generally appreciates nuance in flavor and aren't ordering vodka tonics or light beer.

GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.


These guys ain't even close to working in that kind of bar. I've been to the kind of bar these guys work at- you pay though the nose, and you order off the menu, or ask for a serious drink, not a vodka strawberry friz. And what you get is goddamn wonderful.

Gyrfalcon: "How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys with all the money will have found someplace else.

But hey, why should I ruin all your fun?


No, you don't drive those people away, because high end clientele generally know that you don't go to a craft cocktail bar for a gin and tonic. You order a real drink when you go there, not least because it's one of the few places you can.

Seriously folks, they have the cheaper sling whatever crappy drinks you want places in NYC too- these are the equivalent of fine dining. You order something nice, not tasteless shiat to get hammered. If that's not your scene, fine. But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.
 
2013-03-14 02:07:32 AM

Shadow Blasko: ReapTheChaos: "The rum and Coke is "a hideous waste of rum," says Phil Ward. "All you taste is the Coke."

If that's true then you're either using watered down rum or you mix weak drinks.

This!

/Blackheart and Diet Coke please.


Highball glass
a couple ice cubes.  Fill most of the glass with anejo rum
top it off by waving the coke gun in the general vicinity of the glass
drink
repeat until drunk
 
2013-03-14 02:08:42 AM
 OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."


I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.
 
2013-03-14 02:08:50 AM

SpiderQueenDemon: There's a thing called a Dark n' Stormy, which is rum and ginger beer, that I've been coming back and ordering happily for weeks.


Strangely enough, I think Dark & Stormy's were mentioned on QC once...

And they are quite tasty!
 
2013-03-14 02:10:41 AM

Shadow Blasko: SpiderQueenDemon: There's a thing called a Dark n' Stormy, which is rum and ginger beer, that I've been coming back and ordering happily for weeks.

Strangely enough, I think Dark & Stormy's were mentioned on QC once...

And they are quite tasty!


One of my regular favorites, and the reason I make sure to keep some ginger beer on hand!
 
2013-03-14 02:10:56 AM
I read the headline and thought "Wow, someone invented a bar where women can go in and get douches of different 'flavors,' so-to-speak, based on their personal preferences and physiological needs (but mostly trendiness and wacky names), and can hang out together and decompress and talk just like a real bar" and then I RTFA and say what it really was and oh my God I have to fill out patent and copyright applications RIGHT NOW AND I CALL DIBS AND AIIIIEEEEE
 
2013-03-14 02:11:02 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Highball glass
a couple ice cubes. Fill most of the glass with anejo rum
top it off by waving the coke gun in the general vicinity of the glass
drink
repeat until drunk


It depends on what my plans are that night..

Just socializing, Rum and Coke, Preferably diet coke, and Blackheart, but I'll happily take Sailor, or Captain.

Dancing... Double shot of captain, neat, water on the side.

Bad night? Just hand me the damned bottle of Kraken and gimme a coke on the side, and I'll bring back what I don't drink.
 
2013-03-14 02:11:08 AM

Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.


Or his head eaten by that Zombie he insists you order instead of the safe Long Island Ice Tea!
 
2013-03-14 02:11:33 AM
If you order a vodka soda, you're too young to drink.
 
2013-03-14 02:13:33 AM

GoSurfing: I will make it my life mission to travel to these establishments and request a Miller High Life, my favorite beverage. Come at me bro.

/Miller Low Life. Because I am one.


Mine as well.
 
2013-03-14 02:13:45 AM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: NY Post.  Yeah, not buying it.




Not buying what? Do u think they made up all those quotes?
 
2013-03-14 02:13:59 AM

Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.


Because the zombie actually balances out the flavors instead of dumping as many random types of booze together as you can?

You do not go to places like this to get hammered. You go there for the best goddamn tasting cocktail you've had in your life. Vodka anything is antithetical to that. It shouldn't surprise you that people who work balancing drinks to have absolute perfect balances of flavor (seriously, some of these places get out the eyedropper) are gonna be offended when you ignore all the drinks they've spent a lot of time and effort getting absolutely perfect and ask for something flavorless you get at a dive bar because it's impossible to screw up.
 
2013-03-14 02:14:27 AM

doglover: If you order a vodka soda, you're too young to drink.


Or you want something different. I am 44 and still like some vodka and rc cola. I also like high end stuff . ymmv.
 
2013-03-14 02:17:30 AM
www.nypost.com

Shea Berry says she got snubbed for ordering a vodka martini at Prime Meats.

There's so much wrong with this.... I can't be on her side.
 
2013-03-14 02:19:01 AM

alienated: vodka and rc cola


But that's a highball. Soda has no flavor. Vodka has no flavor. A vodka soda would be flavorless fizz.
 
2013-03-14 02:21:54 AM
Approves of this article
 
2013-03-14 02:22:45 AM
Damn, image fail.  Nevermind.
 
2013-03-14 02:23:43 AM

cptjeff: APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.

Because the zombie actually balances out the flavors instead of dumping as many random types of booze together as you can?

You do not go to places like this to get hammered. You go there for the best goddamn tasting cocktail you've had in your life. Vodka anything is antithetical to that. It shouldn't surprise you that people who work balancing drinks to have absolute perfect balances of flavor (seriously, some of these places get out the eyedropper) are gonna be offended when you ignore all the drinks they've spent a lot of time and effort getting absolutely perfect and ask for something flavorless you get at a dive bar because it's impossible to screw up.


Notice the "if you want to get bombed right away" part. But paying attention to that would be silly. However, I do apologize for wanting to drink the way I want to drink. You and all the PHD mixologists obviously know better than me what I should be imbibing to make myself a better person.
 
2013-03-14 02:26:56 AM
The only time I was forced to drink something I didn't want at a bar was at Coyote Ugly's in Nashville. The bartender chick made me do a shot of Fireball. Mind you, I was already drunk from the many other bars we were in that night so I was probably easily swayed.
 
2013-03-14 02:27:11 AM

doglover: alienated: vodka and rc cola

But that's a highball. Soda has no flavor. Vodka has no flavor. A vodka soda would be flavorless fizz.


Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.
And rc cola has a distinct taste . Im not from the south but I have always preferred it, aside from mexican coke, when I choose to drink a cola. Next you will be calling me a n00b for liking grey goose and Hawaiian Punch ...
 
2013-03-14 02:27:51 AM

Soupysales: cptjeff: APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.

Because the zombie actually balances out the flavors instead of dumping as many random types of booze together as you can?

You do not go to places like this to get hammered. You go there for the best goddamn tasting cocktail you've had in your life. Vodka anything is antithetical to that. It shouldn't surprise you that people who work balancing drinks to have absolute perfect balances of flavor (seriously, some of these places get out the eyedropper) are gonna be offended when you ignore all the drinks they've spent a lot of time and effort getting absolutely perfect and ask for something flavorless you get at a dive bar because it's impossible to screw up.

Notice the "if you want to get bombed right away" part. But paying attention to that would be silly. However, I do apologize for wanting to drink the way I want to drink. You and all the PHD mixologists obviously know better than me what I should be imbibing to make myself a better person.


If you want to just get hammered, whatever. But the point is to either do it with some class or do it somewhere else. Fine dining and fast food are not the same thing. High end cocktail bars and dive bars are not the same thing either. Just like I do not go to a dive bar expecting a menu of fine scotches, I do not expect jello shots at a place that prides itself on high quality drinks, a refined atmosphere, and charges $15 a pop.
 
2013-03-14 02:28:02 AM
Pretty sure the markets will decide if this is a trend or not.
 
2013-03-14 02:28:23 AM
If a bar won't serve me my whisky on the rocks, I take my business elsewhere.

I doubt I'd last a minute in one of these hipster joints.
 
2013-03-14 02:28:39 AM
Okay, so who's snubbing who here?
 
2013-03-14 02:29:26 AM

Iczer: I'm kind of in the same vein as a few snobby TV food personalities are in this type of setup:

The chef/bartender has done their craft for "X" years and finally has control (normally) over the menu, they know what they chose and why in each and every item. If you want to order something from them and start going off like my sister and telling them to hold everything but the meat, they have a bit of a right to get irked with you. There's a reason Japan has so many great foods, it's ingrained into their culture that asking for subsitutions/whatnot is seen as a slap in the face to the chef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase


As a chef, that would be terrific for me. As a paying customer, it's not so great. I really don't care if the chef likes the food better a different way. He's not the one paying for it and eating it. If you don't want to take my money and serve me what I'm asking for, why are you a professional chef? If you just want to cook what you like, how you like, and the consumer of that food be damned, cook for free.
 
2013-03-14 02:29:47 AM

alienated: Next you will be calling me a n00b for liking grey goose and Hawaiian Punch ...


Protip: Costco vodka will save you a lot of money if you are trying to get highschool girls drunk like this.
 
2013-03-14 02:30:30 AM

Strongbeerrules: Okay, so who's snubbing who here?


"who's snubbing whom here"
 
2013-03-14 02:30:55 AM
"Years ago, when mixology was a cause, it was edgy. Now it's not," Meehan says.

No.  Just... no.  It was never a cause, it was never edgy, and being a douche about it was never appropriate.  And putting aside that having this as your thing is somehow even less cool than painting warhammer minis for a hobby, even, what the fark is wrong with you?

If you are the owner/manager and you don't like something, there's no problem with not stocking it, or instructing your tenders to up-sell to something with a higher markup.   But when you do so, the correct response when someone asks for it is "we don't sell that.  Anything else?", not "we don't sell that, you ignorant swine".  You see, with the first way, you convey the information and yet you still have a customer.  You can proceed to be a douche if they really want more clarification.

Trocadero: But vodka sodas are moron drinks...


As someone that can tell you what brand of gin is in a martini without mental effort (and usually the proportion of dry to sweet as well, depending how many I've had)... no, no they aren't.  Just because I mostly drink things that were 'traditional' before my grandfather was born doesn't mean you can't enjoy your bud lite or natty ice or whatever.

Additionally, anyone who can't make the connection between the popularity of energy drinks in the mid '00s and this, and work out the probable age of people drinking vodka/soda now does not really have a lot of room to talk about other people being morons (not directed at you, couple other people in this thread, though....).

//Thirdly, my ability to make fine distinctions between alcoholic drinks makes me an alcoholic, not a hip and cool dude or whatever.
 
2013-03-14 02:33:45 AM

alienated: doglover: alienated: vodka and rc cola

But that's a highball. Soda has no flavor. Vodka has no flavor. A vodka soda would be flavorless fizz.

Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.


Zubrowka is the exception that proves the rule. It stands out from other high end vodkas because it's pretty much the only one that actually does have an interesting flavor. Here's a factoid that should be telling: The vast majority of "premium" vodka made in the US is distilled by two industrial manufacturers, shipped to the "distillery" where it's watered down to the desired strength and put in a fancy bottle. You're paying for the marketing.
 
2013-03-14 02:34:19 AM

untaken_name: Iczer: I'm kind of in the same vein as a few snobby TV food personalities are in this type of setup:

The chef/bartender has done their craft for "X" years and finally has control (normally) over the menu, they know what they chose and why in each and every item. If you want to order something from them and start going off like my sister and telling them to hold everything but the meat, they have a bit of a right to get irked with you. There's a reason Japan has so many great foods, it's ingrained into their culture that asking for subsitutions/whatnot is seen as a slap in the face to the chef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase

As a chef, that would be terrific for me. As a paying customer, it's not so great. I really don't care if the chef likes the food better a different way. He's not the one paying for it and eating it. If you don't want to take my money and serve me what I'm asking for, why are you a professional chef? If you just want to cook what you like, how you like, and the consumer of that food be damned, cook for free.


It's a different dining experience. It's not a sit down and order thing. It's a go and enjoy the specially prepared full course meal and restaurant ambience and immediate contact with the chef thing.

Not better, not worse. Just different. The food will usually be very good.
 
2013-03-14 02:34:30 AM

cptjeff: If you want to just get hammered, whatever. But the point is to either do it with some class or do it somewhere else. Fine dining and fast food are not the same thing. High end cocktail bars and dive bars are not the same thing either. Just like I do not go to a dive bar expecting a menu of fine scotches, I do not expect jello shots at a place that prides itself on high quality drinks, a refined atmosphere, and charges $15 a pop.


Since when was getting hammered classy? Is the guy who does it on artisan gin really better than the guy who does it on Jack Daniels?

Here's the thing: Yes, some people just aren't sophisticated enough to know all the ins and outs of the new mixology movement, but do they really deserve to be mocked and denigrated by the bartender serving them?
 
2013-03-14 02:35:37 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: If a bar won't serve me my whisky on the rocks, I take my business elsewhere.

I doubt I'd last a minute in one of these hipster joints.


These places absolutely would serve you whiskey on the rocks. Generally, they have a selection of very nice whiskeys.
 
2013-03-14 02:36:24 AM
I love stories where every single person in the article deserves repeated punches to the groin:

* the "craft" proprietor taking pride in showing up his customers;
* the milquetoast customers afraid to return the insult;
* the hipsters supporting these places, because they're hipsters;
* and the dead father because he won't feel it.

Barkeep, a fresh round of cockpunches for the house, and two for yourself!
 
2013-03-14 02:37:00 AM

giftedmadness: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: NY Post.  Yeah, not buying it.

Not buying what? Do u think they made up all those quotes?


Seriously?  A handful of quotes from some random friends makes some kind big cultural event?  C'mon, dude.
 
2013-03-14 02:37:12 AM

Soupysales: cptjeff: If you want to just get hammered, whatever. But the point is to either do it with some class or do it somewhere else. Fine dining and fast food are not the same thing. High end cocktail bars and dive bars are not the same thing either. Just like I do not go to a dive bar expecting a menu of fine scotches, I do not expect jello shots at a place that prides itself on high quality drinks, a refined atmosphere, and charges $15 a pop.

Since when was getting hammered classy? Is the guy who does it on artisan gin really better than the guy who does it on Jack Daniels?

Here's the thing: Yes, some people just aren't sophisticated enough to know all the ins and outs of the new mixology movement, but do they really deserve to be mocked and denigrated by the bartender serving them?


If they're not interested in drinking a quality drink, they shouldn't be in that bar. Believe it or not, those places aren't hurting for business and don't need yours- they have enough customers who actually appreciate the product.
 
2013-03-14 02:37:43 AM

cptjeff: factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.

No, and they'd probably give you a pretty nice bourbon.

The disdain is for idiots who go into a craft cocktail bar and order something without taste. Your "premium" vodka is a marketing scam, not a quality drink. And they're not going to serve you a Bud Light.

The Snow Dog: When you work for tips, you'd be an idiot to try and make your customers feel abused. W

These guys are not working for tips in a dive bar. These guys are making $15 cocktails for a clientele that generally appreciates nuance in flavor and aren't ordering vodka tonics or light beer.

GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

These guys ain't even close to working in that kind of bar. I've been to the kind of bar these guys work at- you pay though the nose, and you order off the menu, or ask for a serious drink, not a vodka strawberry friz. And what you get is goddamn wonderful.

Gyrfalcon: "How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys wi ...


So why would they only serve crappy well liquor as in some of the examples?

Also: 20% of an expensive cocktail is far better than 20% of a PBR at a dive bar.

Also: what kind of bar are these bartenders at that they have time to dick around coming to a consensus on what farking drink to make? If your bar is worth a flying fark you have people waiting. Are you bartending to make money or are you bartending to shed your amateur diva status go full on pro retar-diva?

You like abuse?
Your NSFW act's gone out of style!
Well kick yourself in the c*nt!
Also: It sounds like you dont understand what you read. You're just basically reiterating what Gyrfalcon said and saying he's wrong for making the same point. You're an idiot.
 
2013-03-14 02:38:02 AM
: Here ya go, one champagne cocktail.
: Oh, thank you.
: I thought only hookers drank those things?
: Well, I know Mom sure likes 'em.
 
2013-03-14 02:38:06 AM
I'm a bartender in Manhattan, so I'm getting a... newspaper so I can check out the classifieds.
 
2013-03-14 02:38:08 AM

untaken_name: Iczer: I'm kind of in the same vein as a few snobby TV food personalities are in this type of setup:

The chef/bartender has done their craft for "X" years and finally has control (normally) over the menu, they know what they chose and why in each and every item. If you want to order something from them and start going off like my sister and telling them to hold everything but the meat, they have a bit of a right to get irked with you. There's a reason Japan has so many great foods, it's ingrained into their culture that asking for subsitutions/whatnot is seen as a slap in the face to the chef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase

As a chef, that would be terrific for me. As a paying customer, it's not so great. I really don't care if the chef likes the food better a different way. He's not the one paying for it and eating it. If you don't want to take my money and serve me what I'm asking for, why are you a professional chef? If you just want to cook what you like, how you like, and the consumer of that food be damned, cook for free.


Jack agrees with you.

www.filmsquish.com

/so do I :)
 
2013-03-14 02:38:13 AM

cptjeff: AverageAmericanGuy: If a bar won't serve me my whisky on the rocks, I take my business elsewhere.

I doubt I'd last a minute in one of these hipster joints.

These places absolutely would serve you whiskey on the rocks. Generally, they have a selection of very nice whiskeys.


Hmm. Sounds like my kind of place, then.

*strokes handlebar moustache*
 
2013-03-14 02:38:45 AM

cptjeff: is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.


Agreed. Why would you want to go to some crappy restaurant where they care what you're wearing as if that affects your ability to eat, and besides that, their "fancy chef" can't even make a simple pastry? Sounds horrible.
 
2013-03-14 02:39:40 AM

alienated: doglover: alienated: vodka and rc cola

But that's a highball. Soda has no flavor. Vodka has no flavor. A vodka soda would be flavorless fizz.

Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.
And rc cola has a distinct taste . Im not from the south but I have always preferred it, aside from mexican coke, when I choose to drink a cola. Next you will be calling me a n00b for liking grey goose and Hawaiian Punch ...


Vodka is fine in Russia and you're gulping, just like straight white rum is fine if you're stuck on a ship.

If you want a cocktail, and you're willing to go to a bar with an actual bartender, order a drink that's got a reason to exist.

A martini, for example, is NOT a fishbowl full of cold vodak.
 
2013-03-14 02:40:07 AM
3 fingers of Laphroaig Quarter-Cask, Neat.  Fark it up, and you'll get a penny in the water glass.
 
2013-03-14 02:44:10 AM

cptjeff: If they're not interested in drinking a quality drink, they shouldn't be in that bar. Believe it or not, those places aren't hurting for business and don't need yours- they have enough customers who actually appreciate the product.


Ok, I'm fairly certain we will never have a meeting of the minds on this topic. I take solace in knowing that I will never run into you at a bar, as your classiness and refined tastes are far superior to mine, so I will just maintain my station at the fun bars where the bartenders and clientele aren't coonts.
 
2013-03-14 02:46:38 AM

The Snow Dog: Also: what kind of bar are these bartenders at that they have time to dick around coming to a consensus on what farking drink to make? If your bar is worth a flying fark you have people waiting. Are you bartending to make money or are you bartending to shed your amateur diva status go full on pro retar-diva?


A very different type than you've ever been to, apparently.

Here's the thing: I've been to these places. I like them, because I like a well made drink. There are not 40 people piled up waiting for another shot of cheap whiskey as fast as you can get it to them- they're sitting at tables sipping a drink that will last at least half an hour and talking at a human volume with their friends. The music is just loud enough to keep other people's conversations mostly indistinct. When you need a new drink, a waiter comes by, and you wait for it. Bartenders actually do have time to spend with each customer. Drinks are expensive, and they're not relying on volume and lots of tips.

And low grade probably means Smirnoff or whatnot there. They're not talking Popov unless they just keep it around for cleaning. Or for giving to stupid people. Or the Post could be exaggerating. They do that.
 
2013-03-14 02:49:48 AM
Ultimately the power is yours.  Walk out and spend your $ elsewhere, like in a dive bar w/ character(s).
 
2013-03-14 02:51:32 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: untaken_name: Iczer: I'm kind of in the same vein as a few snobby TV food personalities are in this type of setup:

The chef/bartender has done their craft for "X" years and finally has control (normally) over the menu, they know what they chose and why in each and every item. If you want to order something from them and start going off like my sister and telling them to hold everything but the meat, they have a bit of a right to get irked with you. There's a reason Japan has so many great foods, it's ingrained into their culture that asking for subsitutions/whatnot is seen as a slap in the face to the chef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omakase

As a chef, that would be terrific for me. As a paying customer, it's not so great. I really don't care if the chef likes the food better a different way. He's not the one paying for it and eating it. If you don't want to take my money and serve me what I'm asking for, why are you a professional chef? If you just want to cook what you like, how you like, and the consumer of that food be damned, cook for free.

It's a different dining experience. It's not a sit down and order thing. It's a go and enjoy the specially prepared full course meal and restaurant ambience and immediate contact with the chef thing.

Not better, not worse. Just different. The food will usually be very good.


That's a very valid point. I really should have clarified that it was the "asking for substitutions is a slap in the face of the chef" line I was responding to. I have absolutely no problem with intentionally submitting yourself to the whims of the chef - even in a normal restaurant. My problem is with a regular restaurant where the chef refuses to accommodate reasonable requests. For example, cilantro is an extremely popular food where I live. I absolutely despise it. I don't care how good it tastes to the chef, I don't want to eat it, and if you bring me a plate with cilantro on it, especially after I've requested it be left off, I am leaving and not paying for that meal. I'll pay for whatever drinks I've consumed, and go eat somewhere else. And I will never go back to that restaurant. Hear that, Pho Cong Ly? (Yeah I know, they don't care)
 
2013-03-14 02:53:02 AM

avratt: Ultimately the power is yours.  Walk out and spend your $ elsewhere, like in a dive bar w/ character(s).


That's another point. When you take the time to go out to faux secret bar in Chinatown, and they don't have exactly what you want but offer you a pricey alternative, WHAT THE HELL DID YOU EXPECT!?
 
2013-03-14 02:56:21 AM

untaken_name: That's a very valid point. I really should have clarified that it was the "asking for substitutions is a slap in the face of the chef" line I was responding to. I have absolutely no problem with intentionally submitting yourself to the whims of the chef - even in a normal restaurant. My problem is with a regular restaurant where the chef refuses to accommodate reasonable requests. For example, cilantro is an extremely popular food where I live. I absolutely despise it. I don't care how good it tastes to the chef, I don't want to eat it, and if you bring me a plate with cilantro on it, especially after I've requested it be left off, I am leaving and not paying for that meal. I'll pay for whatever drinks I've consumed, and go eat somewhere else. And I will never go back to that restaurant. Hear that, Pho Cong Ly? (Yeah I know, they don't care)


I get that. Going overboard like Sally in When Harry Met Sally is one thing, but asking that a particular ingredient be left out or for a preparation to be done a special (common) way is something restaurants and chefs ought to be able to grin and bear.

I will make exceptions for someone ordering a steak well done at a high end restaurant, though. Those people need to be shown out the door and given directions to IHOP.
 
2013-03-14 02:56:57 AM

doglover: avratt: Ultimately the power is yours.  Walk out and spend your $ elsewhere, like in a dive bar w/ character(s).

That's another point. When you take the time to go out to faux secret bar in Chinatown, and they don't have exactly what you want but offer you a pricey alternative, WHAT THE HELL DID YOU EXPECT!?


You can't claim ignorance when you find pee pee in your rum and Coke.
 
2013-03-14 02:57:07 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: cptjeff: AverageAmericanGuy: If a bar won't serve me my whisky on the rocks, I take my business elsewhere.

I doubt I'd last a minute in one of these hipster joints.

These places absolutely would serve you whiskey on the rocks. Generally, they have a selection of very nice whiskeys.

Hmm. Sounds like my kind of place, then.

*strokes handlebar moustache*


Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...

Built around one guy's ridiculous collection of scotch- one of the largest selections in the world, apparently.

Soupysales: cptjeff: If they're not interested in drinking a quality drink, they shouldn't be in that bar. Believe it or not, those places aren't hurting for business and don't need yours- they have enough customers who actually appreciate the product.

Ok, I'm fairly certain we will never have a meeting of the minds on this topic. I take solace in knowing that I will never run into you at a bar, as your classiness and refined tastes are far superior to mine, so I will just maintain my station at the fun bars where the bartenders and clientele aren't coonts.


I have no problem with other types of bars. I often wind up in dive bars, irish pubs, whatever. I'm not above a good beer and a decent burger. But I don't go into a 4 star restaurant expecting it to be McDonalds. A high end steakhouse ain't gonna serve you chicken nuggets, you have to act appropriately for the setting.
 
2013-03-14 02:58:16 AM
There are too many consumers out there who are willing to give up a little of the self-importaint "individuality" and "choice" of the have-it-your-way culture in order to experiance something expertly crafted and delicious for your pissy bullshiat to matter to anyone running these establishments.

If you want a bigmac, go to one of the thousands of McDonalds in NYC

If you want a Vodka-Soda, go to one of the thousands of run-of-the-mill bars all over NYC

If you want an well crafted, delicious Hamburger, go to Bonnie's in Brooklyn.

If you want a tasty, thoughtout cocktail, go to a real cocktail bar.

Not every business should have to cater to your every desire - there are enough of us out there who are interested and excited to learn about things beyond our knowledge to keep places like this going - those of us who respect expertise over our own predilections and taste.

 I don't see any use for being snooty for the sake of it, but if someone comes into your business and demands a product that you do not offer, I don't have a problem with you showing them the door...
 
2013-03-14 02:58:52 AM
There is a very simple solution to this bad bartender problem; drink at another bar.  Life is too short to fark around with some jack-hole who won't serve you the drink you order. They're charging about 600% markup on the product so get it right or adios.
 
2013-03-14 03:00:11 AM

cptjeff: Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...

Built around one guy's ridiculous collection of scotch- one of the largest selections in the world, apparently.


Man, I miss DC.
 
2013-03-14 03:03:15 AM

hubris73: Not every business should have to cater to your every desire - there are enough of us out there who are interested and excited to learn about things beyond our knowledge to keep places like this going - those of us who respect expertise over our own predilections and taste.


So, what is it about me ordering my rum and coke that prevents you from taking whatever the bartender wants to serve you?
 
2013-03-14 03:05:04 AM
I went to the secret chinatown joint a few years back. The drinks aren't spectacular. They also suffer the delusion that putting absenthe in a cocktail is a good idea. It's hideous and there must have been 5 drinks on tje menu with it. I actually didn't have a great time. Too farkng pretentious.
 
2013-03-14 03:07:25 AM

factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.


What do you have against the Violent Femmes?
 
2013-03-14 03:09:50 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: alienated: Next you will be calling me a n00b for liking grey goose and Hawaiian Punch ...

Protip: Costco vodka will save you a lot of money if you are trying to get highschool girls drunk like this.


um, no . I have zero interest in anyone under 30.   Link relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_H_sVNgvf4
 
2013-03-14 03:10:33 AM
Give me 2 shots of Kraken black rum, and fark off...
 
2013-03-14 03:13:15 AM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: giftedmadness: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: NY Post.  Yeah, not buying it.

Not buying what? Do u think they made up all those quotes?

Seriously?  A handful of quotes from some random friends makes some kind big cultural event?  C'mon, dude.




Who said it was a big cultural event?
 
2013-03-14 03:31:20 AM
One time I just felt like having a highball.  No real reason.... just felt like having a highball.  Hipster-aszed joint.  They've got five kinds of single-barrel bourbon and some kind of hipster pure-cane cola.  I ask him to make me a frickin' highball.  He refuses to ruin the good bourbon.  So I order a pure cane cola and a double boubon and mix it myself right in front of the twunt.  Dumbarsed New Yorker wanted to lecture me about ruining the good bourbon til I told him I grew up in Louisville and have forgot more about bourbon than he'll ever know.

/Was a damned good highball.
 
2013-03-14 03:32:54 AM

Ebbelwoi: He refuses to ruin the good bourbon.


What a douche. Like you could ruin bourbon.
 
2013-03-14 03:34:37 AM
Given enough E or LSD or blow, it all tastes like water and goes down just as easy.

Drugs. They led me to drink.
 
2013-03-14 03:46:04 AM

SuperNinjaToad: I wonder what would happen if someone at this bar orders a bud light with a lemon on top.


Or a Corona with lime, the original 'let's act like pretentious douches and see how far we can push this thing. Besides, we're wasting limes!'

I'd go with ya just to order both.
Then we can order some long island iced teas.
 
2013-03-14 03:47:23 AM
Gimmie a whiskey neat and hold the horsesh*t.
 
2013-03-14 03:53:06 AM

SpiderQueenDemon: Shadow Blasko: magneticmushroom: Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..

Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.

Faye reminds me a LOT of some of my Southern friends who are generally broken, but I think I would much rather hang with Hanners. I have experience in dealing with those variety of neuroses.

To date? probably none of them... *maybe* Marbear, if Momo and I could get her to clean her act up.

/Works in a "Library" of sorts... selling books though.
//Has my own Sarlaac Pit Of Platonic Frustration.

I have some Hannelore-ish tendencies myself. Whenever a bartender asks me what I want, I ask them what they recommend, assuming that they, as professional bartenders, must know more than I, a mere drinker.

Strangely enough, everything suggested has been delicious. There's a thing called a Dark n' Stormy, which is rum and ginger beer, that I've been coming back and ordering happily for weeks.


Ooo.
Back to rum again, tho? I'm too old to make it through THAT again.

Sounds yum. Dark thick rum and real ginger beer... a drink as well as a cake!

/rum cake this weekend!
 
2013-03-14 04:09:37 AM

doglover: [www.nypost.com image 300x300]

Shea Berry says she got snubbed for ordering a vodka martini at Prime Meats.

There's so much wrong with this.... I can't be on her side.


Let's start with the 40-something dressing like a 20-something and doing the teenager duckface.
 
2013-03-14 04:18:22 AM

Yogimus: doglover: [www.nypost.com image 300x300]

Shea Berry says she got snubbed for ordering a vodka martini at Prime Meats.

There's so much wrong with this.... I can't be on her side.

Let's start with the 40-something dressing like a 20-something and doing the teenager duckface.


Trying to order a vodka version of a gin cocktail with bottle red hair and dressing to match her dye job while holding a fishbowl upside down in front of her.

I could go on, but really can you blame the bartender if THAT walked into his bar and acted half as self righteous as the article implies. I mean, she even brought her own giant glass in the hopes to get extra booze. Who does that?
 
2013-03-14 04:26:50 AM

spaten: Klippoklondike: That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.

Where are these free pool places you speak of?


Tarantula Billiards, downtown Denver

Zanzibar Billiards, about a mile north; they even have a hot tub!

Gold Crowns, not shiatty bar boxes.  Great cheap food, sexiest bartenders.
 
2013-03-14 04:31:07 AM
The problem as I see it is this.  When the d-bag bartender 'refused to make the drink',  all the customers in the article just took it.  The woman's father ordered 3 times?  The solution is one of two things.

1. I'd like a rum and coke.
(sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablabla
Ok (customer walks out, goes somewhere else, does not reward this behavior)
and/or
2. I'd like a run and coke
(Sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablabla
Great.  Go get your manager. (manager sees money.  Let him know yours is walking out the door, and why,  and watch that bullshiat stop right there.)
 
2013-03-14 04:34:21 AM
Hmmm. Yeah. I somehow doubt this is the whole story.
 
2013-03-14 04:38:47 AM
So, we're all f*cked up about who gets to drink what, where, what they get to dress like, what they should be allowed to put in what kind of drink and who should be obliged or not obliged to make it or serve it.  [√].  Next failed economy, please.
 
2013-03-14 04:42:29 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Zanzibar Billiards, about a mile north; they even have a hot tub!


How much do I have to pay you to do a shot of that hot tub water at last call?
 
2013-03-14 05:00:28 AM

Leishu: Hmmm. Yeah. I somehow doubt this is the whole story.


Probably the author and his friends got 86'd for snorting coke in the bathroom.
 
2013-03-14 05:04:30 AM
Shut up and give me my Everclear and red Gatorade, asshole.

/Because I want to get drunk RIGHT NOW
//And I may have to do some running later
///Electrolytes!
 
2013-03-14 05:11:35 AM
Far as I can tell, the correct way to deal with this would be to order the day's special and then tear a strip off the bartender. "What is this? It's shiat. It's shiat. I wouldn't even pour this out over my grandfather's grave? Who taught you how to make drinks, douchetender? Your cocker spaniel?"
 
2013-03-14 05:21:37 AM
If you can't find a vodka tonic in New York, you should be happy that snooty bartenders are the only ones giving you a hard time.
 
2013-03-14 05:31:12 AM

doglover: Ebbelwoi: He refuses to ruin the good bourbon.

What a douche. Like you could ruin bourbon.


I laughed out loud.

/ Best bourbon I ever had was in the Oriental (Asian-style) Bourbon Chicken.  The smoky flavor went well with the rice.
 
2013-03-14 05:32:37 AM
He had the nerve to go to Apothéke, a faux-secret bar in Chinatown with a 19th-century-pharmacy theme,

Oh, I think I get it.  This poor guy from out of town stumbled into the Max Fish crowd's newest watering hole and made the mistake of not feeling instantly homicidal.
 
2013-03-14 05:34:26 AM
people want what they want.  if it is your business to do this, you do it.  if you are unwilling to do this, get out of the business because you're a dick.
 
2013-03-14 05:39:21 AM

cptjeff: factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.

No, and they'd probably give you a pretty nice bourbon.

The disdain is for idiots who go into a craft cocktail bar and order something without taste. Your "premium" vodka is a marketing scam, not a quality drink. And they're not going to serve you a Bud Light.

The Snow Dog: When you work for tips, you'd be an idiot to try and make your customers feel abused. W

These guys are not working for tips in a dive bar. These guys are making $15 cocktails for a clientele that generally appreciates nuance in flavor and aren't ordering vodka tonics or light beer.

GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

These guys ain't even close to working in that kind of bar. I've been to the kind of bar these guys work at- you pay though the nose, and you order off the menu, or ask for a serious drink, not a vodka strawberry friz. And what you get is goddamn wonderful.

Gyrfalcon: "How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys with all the money will have found someplace else.

But hey, why should I ruin all your fun?

No, you don't drive those people away, because high end clientele generally know that you don't go to a craft cocktail bar for a gin and tonic. You order a real drink when you go there, not least because it's one of the few places you can.

Seriously folks, they have the cheaper sling whatever crappy drinks you want places in NYC too- these are the equivalent of fine dining. You order something nice, not tasteless shiat to get hammered. If that's not your scene, fine. But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.


Disdain? Craft? Nuance? Chez Paul? STFU, you pretentious high roller! Though I can adapt to your environment, you'd be tarred an feathered before you EVER got a taste of Eastern Kentucky corn squeezins! Please sound more pompous next go round!
 
2013-03-14 05:41:23 AM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Shut up and give me my Everclear and red Gatorade, asshole.

/Because I want to get drunk RIGHT NOW
//And I may have to do some running later
///Electrolytes!


Im with YOU. Do you mind a late breakfast ?
 
2013-03-14 05:49:21 AM

Yogimus: doglover: [www.nypost.com image 300x300]

Shea Berry says she got snubbed for ordering a vodka martini at Prime Meats.

There's so much wrong with this.... I can't be on her side.

Let's start with the 40-something dressing like a 20-something and doing the teenager duckface.


Seriously, shouldn't she be in Santa Monica?
 
2013-03-14 05:58:45 AM

ReapTheChaos: "The rum and Coke is "a hideous waste of rum," says Phil Ward. "All you taste is the Coke."

If that's true then you're either using watered down rum or you mix weak drinks.


Cuban rum and coke is farking GOOD.

//It's legal in Canada.
 
2013-03-14 06:03:46 AM

thamike: Seriously, shouldn't she be in Santa Monica?


No. Santa Monica is full. overflow to Miami.

A bartender that won't make a simple drink off menu is basically a turd. And probably still lives at home.
 
2013-03-14 06:05:18 AM
Worthless elitist hipster trash?  Working as bartenders?  In New York?  Say it isn't so!
 
2013-03-14 06:09:03 AM
Never been anywhere the bartender had time to criticize my order because other customers either need drinks or conversation, and being prompt with those gives better tips. I could throw together any drink I order back in my house without concerns of how I am getting home and for tremendously less than a night's tab, but I am making the trip and paying the premium for atmosphere.

As to the folks in the article, who the f*ck will let themselves be bullied into ordering something not wanted? I'll walk away in a heartbeat. Sure, the place may not carry vodka or coke, but this does not mean the bartender gets to substitute whatever drink best appeals to them and force payment.
 
2013-03-14 06:11:27 AM

alienated: Eddie Ate Dynamite: Shut up and give me my Everclear and red Gatorade, asshole.

/Because I want to get drunk RIGHT NOW
//And I may have to do some running later
///Electrolytes!

Im with YOU. Do you mind a late breakfast ?


Only if there's an active crime scene at the Waffle House.
 
2013-03-14 06:12:28 AM

Vangor: As to the folks in the article, who the f*ck will let themselves be bullied into ordering something not wanted?


Passive aggressive bloggers who need a story.
 
2013-03-14 06:24:48 AM

jtown: "In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want," she continues. "I was insulted."

Why???  Why the fark would you buy anything from someone who just insulted you?  You're in farking New farking York farking City for farking fark's sake!  There are other bars!  Go to another bar where they don't treat you like shiat.


I'm done. This is THE proper response to these idiots. And by idiots I mean the bartenders and the customers.
 
2013-03-14 06:26:48 AM
What do you expect from a gay bartender.  Gays and lesbians are for the most part, nasty and ugly people to work with and for.
 
2013-03-14 06:49:11 AM

Shadow Blasko: magneticmushroom: Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..

Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.

Faye reminds me a LOT of some of my Southern friends who are generally broken, but I think I would much rather hang with Hanners. I have experience in dealing with those variety of neuroses.

To date? probably none of them... *maybe* Marbear, if Momo and I could get her to clean her act up.


Dora for me.

Of course, I like my coffee like I like my women...murky and bitter.
 
2013-03-14 06:57:42 AM
Years ago, when mixology was a cause, it was edgy.

No. Being a bar tender has never been edgy. It's a job for drunks, "artists", and other people who don't want real jobs.
 
2013-03-14 06:58:13 AM
they may not carry coke products, but I carry my own Coca-Cola from Mexico.
A tall Bacardi gold, Coke and a twist of lime, please...
The coca and rum make a new flavor not found with american new coke today, because they have removed the coca, but with Mexican Coke, the flavor is still there.
 
2013-03-14 06:58:44 AM

cptjeff: Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.

Because the zombie actually balances out the flavors instead of dumping as many random types of booze together as you can?

You do not go to places like this to get hammered. You go there for the best goddamn tasting cocktail you've had in your life. Vodka anything is antithetical to that. It shouldn't surprise you that people who work balancing drinks to have absolute perfect balances of flavor (seriously, some of these places get out the eyedropper) are gonna be offended when you ignore all the drinks they've spent a lot of time and effort getting absolutely perfect and ask for something flavorless you get at a dive bar because it's impossible to screw up.


Isn't that sort of a pointless endeavor, since people have different taste palates?  Taste-bud distribution is a biological thing.

Best you could do is perfectly balance a cocktail for YOU, and some small percent of the population, I'd think...
 
2013-03-14 07:02:59 AM

PunGent: cptjeff: Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.

Because the zombie actually balances out the flavors instead of dumping as many random types of booze together as you can?

You do not go to places like this to get hammered. You go there for the best goddamn tasting cocktail you've had in your life. Vodka anything is antithetical to that. It shouldn't surprise you that people who work balancing drinks to have absolute perfect balances of flavor (seriously, some of these places get out the eyedropper) are gonna be offended when you ignore all the drinks they've spent a lot of time and effort getting absolutely perfect and ask for something flavorless you get at a dive bar because it's impossible to screw up.

Isn't that sort of a pointless endeavor, since people have different taste palates?  Taste-bud distribution is a biological thing.

Best you could do is perfectly balance a cocktail for YOU, and some small percent of the population, I'd think...


What he's basically said this entire thread is that if you disagree with a "mixologist" or a "chef", you're wrong. If things that they say taste good don't taste good to you, you are wrong. That kind of thing.
 
2013-03-14 07:19:51 AM
The Douchtender is not coming soon -- he has been at a plethora of NYC bars for a long, long time. I love the cocktail revival that is going on there for the delicious, well crafted drinks you can get, but the douchiness gets a bit overwhelming. That said, I do love both Prime Meats and Death &Co, and they both make excellent cocktails.
 
2013-03-14 07:24:47 AM
Re-reading the headline, I've just had an alternate interpretation: vaginal cocktails.

That's a million dollar idea, and I give it to you freely to exploit. I just ask that you credit me as "Pennsylvania Col: Cent E Pede" as the founder of the tradition in your official press releases.
 
2013-03-14 07:25:14 AM
Having worked as a mixologist, I have these observations:

1.  Martini drinkers can be pains regarding the gin-to-vermouth ratio.

2.  It's creepy when they order a Bosom Caresser while fixating on your chest.

3.  Drinks with cute names are seldom any good.

4.  Vodka drinkers are easy to please.

5.  It's not good form to order a Pousse café in a busy bar.

6.  I'm impressed when someone orders a Sazerac or a French 75 or a Ramos Gin Fizz.

7.  Snotty mixologist attitudes are translated into poor tips.

8.  You DO tip the mixologist and the server!.
 
2013-03-14 07:30:37 AM

Shadow Blasko: ReapTheChaos: "The rum and Coke is "a hideous waste of rum," says Phil Ward. "All you taste is the Coke."

If that's true then you're either using watered down rum or you mix weak drinks.

This!

/Blackheart and Diet Coke please.


I think you are the one that recommended Blackheart to me. I finally found it in the liquor store and picked up a bottle. Thank you good sir. I like it.
 
2013-03-14 07:31:19 AM
Don't go to shiatty bars and you won't get shiatty service. And yes if your bartender gives you any grief over anything you order you are in a shiatty bar.
 
2013-03-14 07:31:22 AM

eViLpOpTaRt: 8. You DO tip the mixologist and the server!.


For what, opening the beer bottle?  Tell ya what, sweet tits, leave the caps on.
 
2013-03-14 07:31:46 AM

eViLpOpTaRt: mixologist


Unless you invent some kind of super gin that actually makes me sexier as opposed to just thinking I am, you're just a bartender.
 
2013-03-14 07:35:42 AM
Eh, every shiatheel working a job a robot can perform likes to inflate their skills and importance.

I once asked a bartender at a spot that only serves faux artsy booze if he ever considered that nobody buys or carries it because it sucks. He was confident is was just because people are stupid. That said, he swore his angle was more of helping local small time players emerge and get exposure.
 
2013-03-14 07:38:32 AM
Sounds like "Ale Mary's" in Baltimore.  Been there only once.  Mary was tending.
 
2013-03-14 07:45:08 AM
I don't want a stylist. I want a barber. I don't want a "mixologist", I want a bartender.  Tend the bar, mix the drinks, and do it well.
 
2013-03-14 07:46:41 AM
A couple of questions for you Farkers:

I want one of those Crystal Head Vodka bottles for Halloween decorations. I plan on lighting them up with LED's or converting them to lamps (or both). Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?
Also, what about the Kah Tequila bottles? They're painted, but they might be cool all lit up. Is that tequila worth it?
 
2013-03-14 07:47:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Eh, every shiatheel working a job a robot can perform likes to inflate their skills and importance.

I once asked a bartender at a spot that only serves faux artsy booze if he ever considered that nobody buys or carries it because it sucks. He was confident is was just because people are stupid. That said, he swore his angle was more of helping local small time players emerge and get exposure.


I've had some that wasn't bad. A local and very small distillery here uses a local brand of molasses to make rum. It's a very good rum. It's not widely sold because of the taxes imposed on them and economy of scale. They then branched out into making all kinds of other specialty products. Some of them are OK some of them are no different than mainstream products. I get that diversification might be a good move for them and that's probably why they did it but you should hear some of the morons assuming that just because it's small time and local it MUST be better.
 
2013-03-14 07:48:34 AM
Also, for the love of Francis, don't visit any bar that serves green beer this weekend. That is the sign of a bad bar.
 
2013-03-14 07:49:08 AM

SnarfVader: Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?


You are paying a premium for the bottle. The vodka isn't terrible or anything but it's not worth the price without the cool bottle that comes with it.
 
2013-03-14 07:52:34 AM

Egoy3k: SnarfVader: Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?

You are paying a premium for the bottle. The vodka isn't terrible or anything but it's not worth the price without the cool bottle that comes with it.


You can blame Dan Ackroyd for that in making a cool bottle filled with average Vodka.
 
2013-03-14 07:55:08 AM
First, unless you have at very least a Bachelors degree awarded from a regionally-accredited 4-year college or university SPECIFICALLY in the field of making mixed drinks, you are NOT a "mixologist". You are a bartender. If you insist upon being called a "mixologist" without such a qualification, you are a snotty twat of a bartender who desperately needs attitude readjustment via judicious application of a tire iron.

Second, these silly little "artisan" cocktails are merely the sauce splotch and spoon smear of bartending. Maybe they might have been groundbreaking and impressive at one time. Now they are merely just another fad sought after by the stupidly pretentious.

I drank bourbon, neat, before they existed. I will be drinking bourbon, neat, long after they only appear on retro-nostalgia Food Network specials.
 
2013-03-14 07:55:42 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: Egoy3k: SnarfVader: Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?

You are paying a premium for the bottle. The vodka isn't terrible or anything but it's not worth the price without the cool bottle that comes with it.

You can blame Dan Ackroyd for that in making a cool bottle filled with average Vodka.


That's what I thought. I'm not a Vodka aficionado so I wasn't sure. Thanks.
 
2013-03-14 07:56:01 AM

Egoy3k: HotWingConspiracy: Eh, every shiatheel working a job a robot can perform likes to inflate their skills and importance.

I once asked a bartender at a spot that only serves faux artsy booze if he ever considered that nobody buys or carries it because it sucks. He was confident is was just because people are stupid. That said, he swore his angle was more of helping local small time players emerge and get exposure.

I've had some that wasn't bad. A local and very small distillery here uses a local brand of molasses to make rum. It's a very good rum. It's not widely sold because of the taxes imposed on them and economy of scale. They then branched out into making all kinds of other specialty products. Some of them are OK some of them are no different than mainstream products. I get that diversification might be a good move for them and that's probably why they did it but you should hear some of the morons assuming that just because it's small time and local it MUST be better.


Yeah I should say it's not like I tried everything he had behind the bar, I'm sure it ranges from terrible to great. I just wanted to pick his brain about knowing he's losing a crowd of people that most bars would die for just due to wallet issues. Cultivating some specific vibe is nice and all, but you need to cast a wide net with a bar especially with competition down the road.
 
2013-03-14 07:56:18 AM
Gimme my gin and juice and STFU. Yes, I know what good drinks are, and I make them at home with my SO with good alcohol. No, I don't want to go to your bar and get treated like shyte while you make a sub-par beverage.
 
2013-03-14 07:56:45 AM
So just the other day, I went to this new artisanal bakery all my (facebook) friends have been raving about, it got really good yelp reviews too. Anyway, i walk up to the counter and ask for a loaf of wonderbread and the girl just gives me this "are you farking serious?" look and tells me they don't have wonderbread. Can you believe that? So I turn to leave and go to the Walmart across the street to get some and the girl behind the counter pulls a gun and won't let me leave until I order something. So I got some breeosh, I think it was called, and it was the best thing ever, but not what I wanted, super dissapointung.

/now reread that in the lumpy space princess's voice
//don't go to a high end steakhouse and order mcgnuggets
 
2013-03-14 07:57:14 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Eh, every shiatheel working a job a robot can perform likes to inflate their skills and importance.

I once asked a bartender at a spot that only serves faux artsy booze if he ever considered that nobody buys or carries it because it sucks. He was confident is was just because people are stupid. That said, he swore his angle was more of helping local small time players emerge and get exposure.


Every "Great Satan" was once just Pennsylvania and her 12 retarded siblings.
 
2013-03-14 08:02:15 AM
Solution (if it hasn't already been mentioned):

1. Serve Rum and Coke/Vodka and Soda/Whatever offensive drink is ordered
2. Provide a sample of the tasty bespoke alternative ("Hey, you should try this, it's pretty hot and totally on trend right now")
3. ???
4. Profit
 
2013-03-14 08:02:47 AM

SnarfVader: DarkSoulNoHope: Egoy3k: SnarfVader: Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?

You are paying a premium for the bottle. The vodka isn't terrible or anything but it's not worth the price without the cool bottle that comes with it.

You can blame Dan Ackroyd for that in making a cool bottle filled with average Vodka.

That's what I thought. I'm not a Vodka aficionado so I wasn't sure. Thanks.


I am not either, but I am a fan of Ghostbusters and a fan of much (not all) of Dan's work and remembered the story.
 
2013-03-14 08:03:39 AM

King Keepo: Solution (if it hasn't already been mentioned):

1. Serve Rum and Coke/Vodka and Soda/Whatever offensive drink is ordered
2. Provide a sample of the tasty bespoke alternative ("Hey, you should try this, it's pretty hot and totally on trend right now")
3. ???
4. Profit


That's how I was talked into ordering a shot of some locally made Grappa. Holy crap! That shiat was rocket fuel.

/Still tipped well, so it worked.
 
2013-03-14 08:05:59 AM
At first I thought calling this person an idiot was harsh, but then I read that they ended up drinking something they didn't want.  So, you got horrible service at a bar who refused to serve you what you wanted, so you actually bought what they told you to buy even though you didn't want it?  I'm sorry, but this is proof you are an idiot.  If a bar does that to you, go somewhere else.
 
2013-03-14 08:08:50 AM

bunner: Gimmie a whiskey neat and hold the horsesh*t.


Ordered a Dewar's, neat.
Girl brought me some fine scotch on the rocks.
I stood up an walked out.
 
2013-03-14 08:09:02 AM

cptjeff: factoryconnection: Knowing how I feel when people request really banal, played-out covers at gigs, I'd feel the same way these c*nty bartenders do. However, because I like keeping a party (and tips) going, I'll play their stupid request for "Blister in the Sun" with a smile and some joking around.

Would they sh*t on me for asking for bourbon with a twist of lemon? Probably but that is freaking good.

No, and they'd probably give you a pretty nice bourbon.

The disdain is for idiots who go into a craft cocktail bar and order something without taste. Your "premium" vodka is a marketing scam, not a quality drink. And they're not going to serve you a Bud Light.

The Snow Dog: When you work for tips, you'd be an idiot to try and make your customers feel abused. W

These guys are not working for tips in a dive bar. These guys are making $15 cocktails for a clientele that generally appreciates nuance in flavor and aren't ordering vodka tonics or light beer.

GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

These guys ain't even close to working in that kind of bar. I've been to the kind of bar these guys work at- you pay though the nose, and you order off the menu, or ask for a serious drink, not a vodka strawberry friz. And what you get is goddamn wonderful.

Gyrfalcon: "How to drive away your high-end clientele in only one night."

I mean, really. You might attract the hipster/preppy chic crowd, but you're going to lose all the lawyers and brokers and middle-management who just want their vodak and sodas and basic gin-and-tonics; and once your "artisanal gin" is no longer ironically trendy enough, the hipsters will find someplace else and the guys wi ...


To me, it is more a matter of the attitude than the reality. If I walk into ANY bar, order something, and the barkeep shrugs noncommitally and says "Sorry, buddy - we don't stock that." I'll just order something else, and not give it another thought. If, on the other hand, he acts like I just wandered into Buckingham Palace and took a crap on one of the Queen's prize oriental rugs, I'll be ordering my drink elsewhere that evening.
 
2013-03-14 08:10:36 AM

GoSurfing: I will make it my life mission to travel to these establishments and request a Miller High Life, my favorite beverage. Come at me bro.

/Miller Low Life. Because I am one.


You might get one without protest. The hip hipsters have been abandoning PBR for highlife as of late.
 
2013-03-14 08:13:37 AM

Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..


Completely unaware of this strip.  Thanks for the heads-up.
 
2013-03-14 08:15:34 AM
Bartenders like this should be given a high 5. In the face. With a tire iron. Twice.
 
2013-03-14 08:18:40 AM
cptjeff:

Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...

Built around one guy's ridiculous collection of scotch- one of the largest selections in the world, apparently.


Thanks!  Booking unnecessary trip back to DC immediately.
 
2013-03-14 08:27:13 AM
Step one: Order shot of everclear. (Bacardi 151 will do if everclear is bannned in your area)

Step two: obtain lighter from nearest smoker.

Step Three: hold shot in mouth.

Step four: Light lighter and hold in front of mouth.

Step Five: Spray that shiat as hard as you can out of your mouth to atomize it. It hits the lighter, bursts into flame, and lands all over asshole bartender.

Step Six: Get the fark out before the cops show up, proving once and for all that you are top asshole, not some bartender.
 
2013-03-14 08:28:40 AM
Ordering things in NYC can be tricky.

img2.timeinc.net
 
2013-03-14 08:28:42 AM


"We were told that there's only one vodka and it is very low-grade," she recalls. The bartender's attitude was, " 'We are only offering you the s--ttiest vodka because, if you drink it, you are an [idiot].' It was super annoying.


Should have just done what every other bar does: fill up those "top shelf" vodkas with Popov and charge 5x as much because nobody will tell the difference.
 
2013-03-14 08:31:30 AM

Silly_Sot: First, unless you have at very least a Bachelors degree awarded from a regionally-accredited 4-year college or university SPECIFICALLY in the field of making mixed drinks, you are NOT a "mixologist". You are a bartender. If you insist upon being called a "mixologist" without such a qualification, you are a snotty twat of a bartender who desperately needs attitude readjustment via judicious application of a tire iron.

Second, these silly little "artisan" cocktails are merely the sauce splotch and spoon smear of bartending. Maybe they might have been groundbreaking and impressive at one time. Now they are merely just another fad sought after by the stupidly pretentious.

I drank bourbon, neat, before they existed. I will be drinking bourbon, neat, long after they only appear on retro-nostalgia Food Network specials.


Mixologist

I didn't see it posted.
 
2013-03-14 08:31:43 AM
They want to be called "mixologists" but demonstrate the most unprofessional behavior.
 
2013-03-14 08:35:02 AM

eViLpOpTaRt: Having worked as a mixologist, I have these observations:

6.  I'm impressed when someone orders a Sazerac or a French 75 or a Ramos Gin Fizz.


It has been YEARS since I've been in a bar where the bartender could/would make me a Ramos Gin Fizz...
 
2013-03-14 08:36:58 AM
"I'd like a cheeseburger with a side of fries, no onions."

"No onions?  Are you totally trying to destroy the full potential of this fine Angus beef?  I mean the cheese is bad enough, but we do have a pernicious Stilton we can top it with.  And as far as fries, you already have sufficient starch in the bun, naturally you probably  want ketchup with those, too?"

"Blow a dog."  *door slams*

Sounds  bit silly when you take the booze as sophistication touchstone malarkey out of the equation, non?
 
2013-03-14 08:39:28 AM
Old school H31N0US in his local Hoboken bar on a lazy summer saturday afternoon:

Jamesons rocks and a Miller Lite on the side. Keep them replenished until the the TV shows the grounds crew doing the YMCA, then call my dealer, because it's gonna be a long night.

New school H31N0US:

Club soda and a grilled chicken salad please, I have stuff to do around the house and I wanna take my kid to the park.

fark these bartenders and the people who tip them.
 
2013-03-14 08:46:36 AM
cptjeff:Seriously folks, they have the cheaper sling whatever crappy drinks you want places in NYC too- these are the equivalent of fine dining. You order something nice, not tasteless shiat to get hammered. If that's not your scene, fine. But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.  The gourmet concept travels across all manner of food and drink.  The entire gourmet industry has basically set itself up on one-upping the next guy.  Any restaurant or bar has the right to deny you service, and you have the right to refuse to be a patron of any establishment you dislike.  It's that simple.  Granted, it sounds like the douchey bartender could at least be a little more considerate in explaining the concept of a "gourmet" bar to their confused patrons.
 
2013-03-14 08:51:35 AM
alienated:Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.

It's called  Żubrówka and it's really nice mixed with pressed apple juice. The only vodka in my house.
 
2013-03-14 08:54:57 AM
Everybody knows that only true New Yorkers eat a slice of cheese pizza pie folded. Anything else reveals you to be a philistine phoney.

/stop liking what I don't like.
//sushi should also be eaten in a specific manner.
///only missionary sex is acceptable.
////worship my authentic style.
 
2013-03-14 09:02:42 AM
What I hate more is when I order a martini or gibson and then have to send it back because the incompetent bartender put Vodka in it, instead of Gin.

If I wanted vodka I would have specified vodka, if I say "Martini" or "Gibson" the default is gin.

Also, not knowing how to make an Old Fashioned is another sign of your incompetence.

/Unless the bar specializes in Mojitos, you're being an asshole to order one, other people want to drink too, quit monopolizing the bartender's time.
 
2013-03-14 09:05:25 AM

Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.


This. This douchebag looks down on you for getting a drink with a load of alcohol in it, and then suggests a drink with *more* alchohol?? Plus, done correctly, Long Islands are farking yummy. (Better than birds and snow coffee too!). Now done by a crappy mixer, Long Islands taste like a bull's testicle sweat.

Look, if I care about the subtle nuance between dry, extra dry, slightly dry, and off-dry obscure brand gin, then fine, you can make me a designer drink in a Fendi glass whilst we tug on each other's penises (but in an ironic way). But if I want rum, ammaretto, lemon peel, cream, cherry juice, and a banana served to me in an aquarium, what the fark do you care as long as I pay you?

My favorite drinks (in no particular order)
Long Island
White Russian
Coke with Morgan's spiced rum (not bacardi, thank you)
Buttery Nipple
chilled Barenjager Honey Liquer  (if you have not tried this, and like honey, pick this up.)

CSB:
Having dinner one night at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse at the bar and saw they had a bottle of Louis XIII Remy Martin cognac. They sell it for about $100-something a shot. I asked the bartender if I got a shot of that, would he mix it into some Coke for me. He just looks at me deadpan for a bit and says "I would slap the absolute shiat out of you if you tried to do that"
 
2013-03-14 09:05:55 AM

cptjeff: AverageAmericanGuy: cptjeff: AverageAmericanGuy: If a bar won't serve me my whisky on the rocks, I take my business elsewhere.

I doubt I'd last a minute in one of these hipster joints.

These places absolutely would serve you whiskey on the rocks. Generally, they have a selection of very nice whiskeys.

Hmm. Sounds like my kind of place, then.

*strokes handlebar moustache*

Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...


I believe I have found my nirvana.
 
2013-03-14 09:10:06 AM

TheMega: spaten: Klippoklondike: That's why i like dive bars.  Nobody gives a fark what you drink.  And free pool.

Where are these free pool places you speak of?

Would enjoy that, too! If they actually had pool tables LOL

I just order a triple Beam or Crown and top it off with Coke (usually room for about half a shot of Coke or so, sometimes less depending on how good the bartender is.. lol) and I'm happy.

/Usually the only places around this area that have "free pool" nights only have one or two pool tables... so it's like saying 'free food' and tossing 4 or 5 day-old bologna sandwiches on the damned floor.  Seriously, who the hell would want to put their name up on the board and wait around an hour or more to save a whopping 75 cents to $1.50 (depending on the bar) for a game of pool? MOST people would drink at least good 4-5 (or MORE) beers while waiting, so you would not save a cent.


Yea we are avid pool players and the only places that have free pool have 1-2 tables that are horribly un-level. Worse though is that I usually feel like the other clientele at this 'bar' will murder me.

If we are really feeling cheap me and the hubby will wait until some half drunk dude demands we play him for money. We don't really like to play drunk people for money so instead we just say 'lower pays' or 'loser buys drinks'. Most wonderful nights...
 
2013-03-14 09:12:54 AM
People need to understand that when you go to a place like this, you're going for the whole experience.

I think it's well worth $16-18 to go to one of these trendy cocktail bars, order something I like, get dressed down by the vest-wearing bearded hipster farkbag behind the bar for it, agree to the fancy drink he recommends instead, and then throw the whole drink right in his asshole face on my way out the door.
 
2013-03-14 09:14:59 AM
First World problem thread?

Just go some place else
 
2013-03-14 09:17:08 AM
Seriously, there's a reason why steakhouses have salads on the menu, and every restaurant has chicken fingers on a children's menu: paying customers who are into what you provide often bring people who aren't along with them, and you'd be stupid to drive the whole party away by not making reasonable accommodations for the difficult ones.

If you have the ingredients for something and it's not overly labor-intensive, shut up and make it.  You'll be tipped well for it, and they'll come back.
 
2013-03-14 09:33:47 AM

devlin carnate: I love stories where every single person in the article deserves repeated punches to the groin:

* the "craft" proprietor taking pride in showing up his customers;
* the milquetoast customers afraid to return the insult;
* the hipsters supporting these places, because they're hipsters;
* and the dead father because he won't feel it.

Barkeep, a fresh round of cockpunches for the house, and two for yourself!


I love this comment. I want to buy you a drink.
 
2013-03-14 09:39:42 AM
This part annoys me:

Her father, who has since died, had the naiveté to order an amaretto sour. The server promptly informed them that they didn't have any amaretto because the mixologist didn't deign to work with the almond liqueur.
"My father felt hurt, but he tried again," remembers Deming, an author who is now working on a family memoir about kidney donation.
Her dad then asked for a mojito, a request that was met with further unkindness.
"The look of naked contempt on the waiter's face was unbelievable," she recalls. "He said, 'We don't make those this time of year.' I don't even remember what my father wound up ordering, I was so angry."


This isn't a 'mixologist' problem this is a 'we don't have the ingredients to make the drink that you have ordered' problem coupled with bad service. If I order eggs benedict in a roadside diner my feelings aren't hurt if they don't have any asparagus. I might be upset if the waiter/ress responds with 'Ohhh look at the fancy pants here ordering eggs benedict what's next? Do you want some champagne (pronounced sham pag in) with some orange juice in it, and maybe a side of grey pupon?'

/no actually that would be hilarious
 
2013-03-14 09:44:09 AM
This is super simple, if you don't want a fancy, well crafted drink, don't go to a mixology bar. I've been to most of the places mentioned in the article and thought they had some delicious drinks. The bartender at Death + Co was very helpful in helping my friend who, unlike me, is not a raging alcoholic, order a drink that he enjoyed (and even remembered us like 3wks later when we came back).

I don't go to this sort of bar all the time (I usually just drink scotch so I don't require any specialist bartender). I go there when I want a finely crafted drink. I'd liken going to one of these bars and ordering a rum and coke or vodka tonic and going to a gourmet restaurant and saying "yeah, I just want the chicken fingers and fries". It's fine if you want chicken fingers, just don't expect a real chef to want to prepare them for your.
 
2013-03-14 09:49:51 AM

jtown: "In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want," she continues. "I was insulted."

Why???  Why the fark would you buy anything from someone who just insulted you?  You're in farking New farking York farking City for farking fark's sake!  There are other bars!  Go to another bar where they don't treat you like shiat.


^^^^^
THIS. A thousand times over!
 
2013-03-14 09:54:52 AM
Want anything frozen or sugary, and they'll refuse to make it, saying they don't want to "mask the spirit's taste."

Read as: "I don't want to have to wash the blender."
 
2013-03-14 09:56:03 AM
I live in NYC and absolutely HATE this! I was out with a party of about 10 people once. We made reservations at a swanky, 20s themed bar. I had the audacity to order a vodka cranberry and our rude waiter informed me that they do not carry nor serve cranberry juice. So my party, thoroughly insulted by this arsehole's condescension, stood up and walked right out the door. We went across the street and found a place more than happy to make several hundred dollars on our drink orders.
 
2013-03-14 09:57:59 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: Egoy3k: SnarfVader: Is the Vodka worth it, or should I just see if I can find the empty bottle?

You are paying a premium for the bottle. The vodka isn't terrible or anything but it's not worth the price without the cool bottle that comes with it.

You can blame Dan Ackroyd for that in making a cool bottle filled with average Vodka.


Huh, a quick Google, and, presto, I learned something.  Had no idea he was involved.

Still won't be running out to buy it, though...
 
2013-03-14 10:05:57 AM

untaken_name: I really don't care if the chef likes the food better a different way.


Then why would you show up at his job and ask him to make you food?

Egoy3k: This isn't a 'mixologist' problem this is a 'we don't have the ingredients to make the drink that you have ordered' problem coupled with bad service.


No, it's a customer who doesn't know when Mojitos are traditionally served problem. They don't have the ingredients on purpose.
 
2013-03-14 10:08:14 AM
splitsider.com

How am I the first??
 
2013-03-14 10:08:49 AM

GuyCaballero: Yogimus: GuyCaballero: "vodka soda" is code for "get me drunk fast, here's my money." Every bartender knows it, loves making them because they're easy, and knows you'll be back soon.

While it's perfectly reasonable to hate the people they talk about in this article, they're a rare breed. Most barkeeps love a fast order and a good tip. Just keep it rolling and there's no problem.

The reporter is a farking weak willed derp, and the bartender is a prissy moron who forgets his role.

I think the whole piece is yellow journalism bullshiat designed to rile up people who live in small towns. People who know better understand bartenders are way too busy to worry about shiat like this.


Yep, just another way to make cities look like scary places full of uppity d-bags.

My sister has been to Apoteke. I haven't yet had the chance but I've been to similar places. She said they were very polite, but eager to make the kind of drinks the place is famous for. I could see someone at a place like that (or Middlebranch, Milk and Honey, or any other number of places where bartenders are called "mixologists") getting offended when someone orders something just to get drunk. Sort of like going to a nice steak house and ordering chicken wings; however, it shouldn't matter. A customer is a customer and their money should always be good unless they're being unreasonable. If they don't want to experience the finest of what the bartender can make, it's their loss.
 
2013-03-14 10:35:08 AM

cptjeff: Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...


Nice! It's good to see someone in the thread who understands what mixology is.

I was involved with restaurants that took this approach to food and drink for quite a long time, and had to work out lots of ways to curb the frustration people would experience when they were forced to try something new because I just didn't have the ingredients they were expecting.  Most of the time people were willing to come along for the ride, and they usually left knowing a lot more about spirits (or bitters, or vegetables, or cured meat, or whatever) then they did when they came in.  But there were always a few jackasses that just couldn't accept the idea of a bar refusing to cater to the lowest common denominator.  ("You don't have Stoli OR Goose?... OR pineapple juice??  This place sucks!")

I actually know a lot of the best in the business in your city and the surrounding area.  Do you ever get up to Baltimore?  I have some friends up there who make pretty slammin' cocktails.  A lot of professional and semi-professional brewers and distillers.  One of them runs a semi-secret pop-up speakeasy that specializes in throwback cocktails.  We'll be neighbors when I get back from SE Asia next month.  If you ever want to check it out and can't find it on your own, shoot me an email and I'll hook you up.

Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown.  Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )
 
2013-03-14 10:52:01 AM

Girion47: Unless the bar specializes in Mojitos, you're being an asshole to order one, other people want to drink too, quit monopolizing the bartender's time.


Same with Caiprinhas or an Old Fashioned done right. You almost need under-mixologist staff to deal with the tedium of those.

I did drink a bottle of single malt with 7up once, it tasted like hospital disinfectant (strangely pleasant) and I'm not adverse to the odd Vodka Red Bull, Jaeger Bomb or whatever, but a well made dry Martini (slightly dirty) is the way forward for the weekend. Like a surgical alcoholic knife it lobotomises any unpleasantness that has occurred during the week leaving a fresh, clean, blank canvass of a weekend ahead.

My local dive bar did one of the greatest dirty Martinis ever, it was about half gin, half olive juice, shaken over ice and served in a tumbler. Dirty as hell.
 
2013-03-14 11:02:49 AM

Wakosane: That's why I like Detroit.  They'll serve you anything and be happy about it.


I FREAKING LOVE DETROIT.

Went there for the first time last November for Thanksgiving (yes, tailgated at Eastern Market, did the game, actually wound up on the news).  Detroit is amazing, the bars are great, all the guys are hot and are willing to buy Dom at places like O'Tooles for Southern girls just off the plane.

/no, i didn't put out
//my Detroit-native friend saved me
///slashies
 
2013-03-14 11:10:55 AM
News flash:   What pisses these bartenders off and makes them get touchy isn't that you're ordering cocktails they don't approve of.  It's that you only came to their establishment in the first place because you heard it was hip and trendy, and you order shows a complete ignorance of what kind of place you're in, and the degree of time, effort and consideration that went into the execution of their concept.  They're justified in feeling a little insulted IMO.

victrin: I live in NYC and absolutely HATE this!


victrin: We went across the street and found a place more than happy to make several hundred dollars on our drink orders.


Then you did exactly the right thing.  For next time, I would maybe recommend taking the time to look into  whya place is so swanky and hip before you decide to go there.

mccallcl: They don't have the ingredients on purpose.


My guess is, it was January and local mint was out of season.

chickstan: A customer is a customer and their money should always be good unless they're being unreasonable.


Screw that.  If you take pride in what you do, and want to refuse to compromise your integrity for the sake of someone's whim, I think that's just fine.  If a chef decides he's only going to offer cheddar on his burger, and you want bleu cheese and mushrooms, you eat what he cooks or you take your money and go someplace else.
 
2013-03-14 11:13:49 AM

Phil Moskowitz: The NY Post is the daily mail of the US. I doubt any of this is actually happening. So many boring shiatty links to drive me off to reddit.


Wow. I very rarely remember Fark Handles(tm) but you were the same dip-shiat I responded to last night for some idiotic comment you posted.

And less than 24 hours later here you are again.

You 'doubt any of this actually' happened?
Why?
Because you don't like the newspaper?

And now you 'threaten' to got to Reddit because Fark has boring links?
Who's being a snob now?
Go to Redditt you azzhat. You won't be missed here.
 
2013-03-14 11:37:46 AM

jtown: "In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want," she continues. "I was insulted."

Why???  Why the fark would you buy anything from someone who just insulted you?  You're in farking New farking York farking City for farking fark's sake!  There are other bars!  Go to another bar where they don't treat you like shiat.


This.  I'm OK with a place simply telling me "No, we don't have that", but if they're going to have an attitude about it, then the only thing they're getting from me is a "fark you, I'm off to a bar not run by/staffed with assholes".
 
2013-03-14 11:39:18 AM

Z-clipped: It's that you only came to their establishment in the first place because you heard it was hip and trendy


Why would you assume that? I wander in to places I've never heard of all the time when I'm in the city, and I'm not even a tourist.
 
2013-03-14 11:53:27 AM

marcre3363: My biggest Manhattan bar Faux Paux was when I was stuck near the door of a dive bar and I decided to start carding people walking in. I wasn't a dick about it, I just looked at their ID's, then welcomed them in.

The bartender saw me doing it and freaked out, threatening to call the Police. I told him to go ahead.

Sure, I shouldn't have been doing it. But I didn't turn anyone away. Hey, free bouncer.


You should have started charging a cover, as well...
 
2013-03-14 11:53:27 AM
My hand to God .... I thought the lede read ...  coming to a bank near you
 
2013-03-14 11:54:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Z-clipped: It's that you only came to their establishment in the first place because you heard it was hip and trendy

Why would you assume that? I wander in to places I've never heard of all the time when I'm in the city, and I'm not even a tourist.


20 years of experience.  It's certainly not everybody, but when a place gets hyped as hip or exclusive, approximately 20%* of the clientele immediately turns into "people who just like to be seen at trendy places".  It's worse with liquor than with food, of course.  Cocktail bars have their work cut out for them with the state of alcohol culture in this country.

* this number is pulled from a peer-reviewed study conducted at the University of My Butt
 
2013-03-14 11:58:18 AM

cptjeff: . But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.


I read this great interview with the head chef of Maxim's - back before it was turned into a "brand" and got kicked out of Michelin's, so I'm dating myself, here. He said one of the hardest parts of the job was to gracefully accept gushing compliments for a meal consisting of a steak and a salad. But he also said that "We get perhaps one customer like that in a week. And he shall be treated as graciously as anyone else."

The customer might be with friends who like their fancy cocktails. The customer might even be in the wrong place. The bartender can of course make a suggestion, even, but if the customer wants a drink and the bartender can make it, he should. Possibly seething with frustration as his tears of misery mingle with his artisanal liqueurs, but he chose to be in the hospitality business.
 
2013-03-14 12:03:25 PM
They should hire some of those douchebag waiters who like to write articles listing everything their paying customers are doing 'wrong'.
 
2013-03-14 12:19:08 PM
"There are two kinds of men in this world, those who drink and those who pour."
 
2013-03-14 12:26:21 PM
Vodak is for people that don't like the taste of liquor. If you don't like it, stay home, don't go to a bar that goes out of its way to make handcrafted mixes and beverages.

/Got what they deserved
//Vodka "martini" is a joke, and everyone has the right to look down on you if you order one
 
2013-03-14 12:27:12 PM

Erik_Emune: The customer might be with friends who like their fancy cocktails. The customer might even be in the wrong place. The bartender can of course make a suggestion, even, but if the customer wants a drink and the bartender can make it, he should. Possibly seething with frustration as his tears of misery mingle with his artisanal liqueurs, but he chose to be in the hospitality business.


This argument isn't without merit, but there's another side to the matter.  Most of the time in bars like the ones in TFA, the refusal to make a particular drink is a matter of ingredients, and more generally, of expectations.  If you as a guest order a drink for which I don't have one or more of the ingredients I know you're expecting, sometimes it's better to just say "no" and force you to reset your expectations, than to attempt to approximate what your asking for and fail to meet them.

A specialty cocktail bar would much rather you tell your friends "It was so annoying- they totally refused to make me a Cosmopolitan because they didn't have cranberry. WTF? On the other hand, I tried a Sazerac and it was really amazing..." than "There were a lot of fancy drinks on the menu and the bartenders made a big deal about their cocktails, but they couldn't even make me a Cosmo that tasted right!".
 
2013-03-14 12:33:11 PM
www.imfdb.org
AUGUSTUS MCCRAE: Well, it ain't much of a crime whackin' a surely bartender.
 
2013-03-14 12:35:33 PM

doglover: A martini, for example, is NOT a fishbowl full of cold vodak.


If you're a martini man, you should get yourself a bottle of this, and go to town.  Best vermouth in the farking world, especially the Blanc.
 
2013-03-14 12:35:36 PM

MythDragon: Soupysales: OFFENDING DRINK: The Long Island iced tea is "pure gluttony," says Ward. Ordering one "is admitting that you want as much booze as possible, without a conception of what it is."

APPROVED DRINK: "If you want to get bombed right away, order a zombie," he says. "It's boozier than a Long Island iced tea and really delicious."

I don't get why one is acceptable and the other isn't. If this guy actually exists, I hope his urethra gets infested with spiders.

This. This douchebag looks down on you for getting a drink with a load of alcohol in it, and then suggests a drink with *more* alchohol?? Plus, done correctly, Long Islands are farking yummy. (Better than birds and snow coffee too!). Now done by a crappy mixer, Long Islands taste like a bull's testicle sweat.

Look, if I care about the subtle nuance between dry, extra dry, slightly dry, and off-dry obscure brand gin, then fine, you can make me a designer drink in a Fendi glass whilst we tug on each other's penises (but in an ironic way). But if I want rum, ammaretto, lemon peel, cream, cherry juice, and a banana served to me in an aquarium, what the fark do you care as long as I pay you?

My favorite drinks (in no particular order)
Long Island
White Russian
Coke with Morgan's spiced rum (not bacardi, thank you)
Buttery Nipple
chilled Barenjager Honey Liquer  (if you have not tried this, and like honey, pick this up.)

CSB:
Having dinner one night at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse at the bar and saw they had a bottle of Louis XIII Remy Martin cognac. They sell it for about $100-something a shot. I asked the bartender if I got a shot of that, would he mix it into some Coke for me. He just looks at me deadpan for a bit and says "I would slap the absolute shiat out of you if you tried to do that"


Honey Liqueur is the reason why my husband and I are together. Both of us had never had it before and we ended up drinking wayyy too much and made out.

Next time try a "Hot and Spicy": one half Spicy Cinnamon Whiskey (Fireball or any will do) and the other half Honey Liqueur. Yummy.
 
2013-03-14 12:36:21 PM

Bender The Offender: What do you have against the Violent Femmes?


Nothing at all; they are vanguards of sarcastic pop rock, right up there in my book with Elvis Costello and no doubt led to Ben Folds Five.  There is nothing inherently wrong with "Blister in the Sun."

However, every band plays "Blister in the Sun" because it takes five minutes of rehearsal before it is on the set list, so there isn't much to it.  It is requested, at least in my oh-god-I-can't-believe-it's-been 15 years of experience exclusively by too-drunk chicks that have crossed the threshold from "hey, fun" to "oh, she's going to fall soon" drunk.  The same can be said for "Laid" by James.  The male version of this request is "Sweet Home Alabama."  I've never heard any band do a decent rendition of that song, but I've heard every one try.

Also, "Kiss Off" is my Femmes song of choice, although if I still played in a band with a rhythm section we'd do "Add it Up."
 
2013-03-14 12:36:34 PM
Oops, that's "surly."  Stop calling me surely.
 
2013-03-14 12:38:39 PM
Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof
 
2013-03-14 12:45:11 PM
Z-clipped:

chickstan: A customer is a customer and their money should always be good unless they're being unreasonable.

Screw that.  If you take pride in what you do, and want to refuse to compromise your integrity for the sake of someone's whim, I think that's just fine.  If a chef decides he's only going to offer cheddar on his burger, and you want bleu cheese and mushrooms, you eat what he cooks or you take your money and go someplace else.


Which is why I mentioned "unreasonable." If I were to go to one of those places, I'm the kind of person that would order from the menu, or ask the bartender for their recommendation. After a while of having a good time and good drinks, I might order a gin and tonic if my friends wanted to linger (I'm not rolling in the dough and can't spend $14 per drink all night.) Would that be incredibly unreasonable? Maybe if they didn't have gin, or tonic...yeah. Or should I just sit there and wait because I don't want to offend the bartender, or just leave and go home? I definitely see where you're coming from and think it's obnoxious to show up to a place like that without realizing it's not some random bro bar, but it also comes off as a bit snooty. Maybe that's just my trashy Midwestern upbringing ;) My sister and best friend are bartenders in the city and someone ordering a non-specialty cocktail is the least of their worries, though they've never been labeled as mixologists.
 
2013-03-14 12:46:44 PM

Johnsnownw: Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place.


That sounds like a terrible place to relax.
 
2013-03-14 12:48:22 PM
Z-clipped:Most of the time in bars like the ones in TFA, the refusal to make a particular drink is a matter of ingredients, and more generally, of expectations.  If you as a guest order a drink for which I don't have one or more of the ingredients I know you're expecting, sometimes it's better to just say "no" and force you to reset your expectations, than to attempt to approximate what your asking for and fail to meet them.

Oh, no argument there. If you don't have an ingredient, well - then you don't have it. It's now on the customer to deal with that, preferably by going with something that you do have, and I am sure some will do so with less than perfect grace. That's when it becomes OK to suggest that they might be better served by going somewhere else.
 
2013-03-14 12:49:38 PM
As much as I like a good gin martini sometimes I want a got damned vodka soda.  Yes, it isn't a flavor explosion, that's just the farking point.  It is refreshing, relatively low calorie, and basically flavor neutral. One doesn't always want everything to taste of juniper.

Just pour the farking drink.
 
2013-03-14 12:51:16 PM
"In the end, we drank chilled gin, which we didn't want," she continues. "I was insulted."

Stopped reading here.  She should have packed up her entourage and picked a better bar instead of giving the douche her money anyway.
 
2013-03-14 12:53:24 PM

magneticmushroom: Shadow Blasko: [questionablecontent.net image 600x1418]

/Basically anyone could post about 500 of QC's 2400 comics in this thread..

Even Jeph Jacques says he'd have a hard time being friends with Faye. I wouldn't want her serving me coffee either. Raven, please.


I'd let Faye serve me coffee, but only if she used her time-travelling dinosaur invention to brew it.
 
2013-03-14 12:54:41 PM

Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof


Jeez what is it with you wise crackers.  People frickin travel.  Usually for business.  Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES.  We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.
 
2013-03-14 12:54:54 PM
www.nypost.com

Walk in to this guy's bar and with a straight face say "I'd like a Sterno '85 with a NyQuil chaser, my good man."

/hilarity will ensue
 
2013-03-14 12:56:08 PM

brap: As much as I like a good gin martini sometimes I want a got damned vodka soda.  Yes, it isn't a flavor explosion, that's just the farking point.  It is refreshing, relatively low calorie, and basically flavor neutral. One doesn't always want everything to taste of juniper.

Just pour the farking drink.


Same here, as much as I love drinking and experimenting with different concoctions, it expands my waistline faster than anything else, so I really had to curb my "hobby".

If I have multiple drinking social events in a week, I'll order one regular drink and sip vodka sodas the rest of the night to keep the calorie count down.

/in a tall glass with lemon please
 
2013-03-14 01:15:19 PM

Z-clipped: Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown. Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )


O hai, thanks for posting that ramen link! Time to metro over there this weekend; there can never, never be enough ramen.
 
2013-03-14 01:25:59 PM

Ebbelwoi: Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof

Jeez what is it with you wise crackers.  People frickin travel.  Usually for business.  Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES.  We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.


It's called Yelp, they have a mobile app, your lack of preparation should not be someone else's problem.
 
2013-03-14 01:30:15 PM
So, negging works?
 
2013-03-14 01:49:55 PM

alienated: doglover: alienated: vodka and rc cola

But that's a highball. Soda has no flavor. Vodka has no flavor. A vodka soda would be flavorless fizz.

Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.
And rc cola has a distinct taste . Im not from the south but I have always preferred it, aside from mexican coke, when I choose to drink a cola. Next you will be calling me a n00b for liking grey goose and Hawaiian Punch ...



Zubrovka is awesome stuff... from time to time.  Definitely different and mixes quite interestingly with apple type beverages (juice or cider) Getting it for ~$12/Liter down here in the Caribbean is pretty nice too
 
2013-03-14 01:58:29 PM

chickstan: Would that be incredibly unreasonable?


Of course not.  And I doubt you'd get any flak from a bartender if you did, especially if you'd already bought something he recommended for you.  However, I'd bet money that if you were served by the guys I know, you'd be so blown away by the drinks they poured you that you'd never get around to asking for that G&T.  : )

The stories you hear like the ones in the article are never as one-sided as they sound.  Bartenders who are jerks to people for no reason don't last long in the business.  (Well... actually they end up tending bar at nightclubs usually.)

These mixologist guys usually only get spiky when people are hopelessly ignorant and oblivious to where they are.  Like when one of a gaggle of uptown fashion harpies pauses her breathless prattle just long enough to toss an order out for a drink that contains three ingredients that the bar doesn't carry, so the poor guy has to interrupt her to explain why he can't do it.   It gets a little tiring for him to have to rehash the litany of common ingredients they don't have over and over, and there's unfortunately no easy way to tell someone, "Listen, I don't think you understand what we do here.  Why don't you use your eyes for a second and notice that the bottles behind the bar are all either obscure artisan whisky and gin, or full of liqueurs that I spent the last 6 weeks making myself? Then, take a look at the cocktail menu and see if anything looks interesting to you." without sounding a little snooty.

These kinds of places just aren't for people who want to drink and not think about what they're drinking.  And when you spend 6 hours figuring out the exact number of drops of Old Tyme bitters that go into a Manhattan made with a particular brand of rye to make it balance perfectly, you tend not to want that kind of person taking up a seat at your bar.
 
2013-03-14 02:05:46 PM

Ebbelwoi: We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.


Then bartenders don't have the time to be patient and understanding with every tourist that doesn't know how to work a smartphone.

If you walk into some place, look around. Get your bearings. Figure out what is expected of you, and act accordingly. If you're confused about what is going on, ask someone who works there. "Hi, it's my first time here, I like ______, is there anything you'd recommend?"

It puts you in a submissive posture, which people don't like, but you're on their property as a guest and that's how you should act. You are not the bartender's boss because you have $20. Lots of people have $20. The person you're talking to could be the best in your city at ______. Let him or her show you. If you want to boss someone around, open your own bar. The bar service relationship is collaborative, not competitive.

What's more, if you figure this out, you'll have success no matter which bar you end up in, and your night won't be dependent on whether your bartender can stomach you.
 
2013-03-14 02:13:06 PM

Inchoate: Z-clipped: Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown. Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )

O hai, thanks for posting that ramen link! Time to metro over there this weekend; there can never, never be enough ramen.


You're absolutely welcome!  Have a great time.
 
2013-03-14 02:36:45 PM

abhorrent1: Years ago, when mixology was a cause, it was edgy.

No. Being a bar tender has never been edgy. It's a job for drunks, "artists", and other people who don't want real jobs.


Actually, it used to be a great way to make $60,000+ working about 30 hours a week, while getting laid as often as you choose.  I'm pretty sure that the dumbasses in the articles are making more money than I did 20 years ago.

My first thought in the article, was why didn't she just ask for a farking manager?   I love handcrafted cocktails, but sometimes just want a black Russian, or a really good Manhattan, screw your cocktail list and artisan BS.  Currently working as a chef as I lost my ability to put on the plastic smile, I still have absolutely no problems with substitutions and requests.  My co-workers often hate my customer-centric attitude.  Hey - who do you think is paying the bills and covering payroll?  The customer.
 
2013-03-14 02:37:47 PM

offmymeds: [www.nypost.com image 299x300]

Walk in to this guy's bar and with a straight face say "I'd like a Sterno '85 with a NyQuil chaser, my good man."

/hilarity will ensue


Look, baby still has his training wheels on!  How artisanal!

(no self respecting bartender uses a jigger unless absolutely required to)
 
2013-03-14 03:07:34 PM

Girion47: Ebbelwoi: Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof

Jeez what is it with you wise crackers.  People frickin travel.  Usually for business.  Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES.  We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.

It's called Yelp, they have a mobile app, your lack of preparation should not be someone else's problem.


The problem with Yelp however, is that it is filled with a bunch of smarmy douches who will more often write on there to complain about something than praise it. All the while trying to sound like they are writing for the new york times and they are the wittiest motherfarkers in the universe.
 
2013-03-14 03:10:33 PM
Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way.  YOU farkING WORK FOR ME.  I pay you to bring me what I ask for.  If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care.
 
2013-03-14 03:13:10 PM

Z-clipped: cptjeff: Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...

Nice! It's good to see someone in the thread who understands what mixology is.

I was involved with restaurants that took this approach to food and drink for quite a long time, and had to work out lots of ways to curb the frustration people would experience when they were forced to try something new because I just didn't have the ingredients they were expecting.  Most of the time people were willing to come along for the ride, and they usually left knowing a lot more about spirits (or bitters, or vegetables, or cured meat, or whatever) then they did when they came in.  But there were always a few jackasses that just couldn't accept the idea of a bar refusing to cater to the lowest common denominator.  ("You don't have Stoli OR Goose?... OR pineapple juice??  This place sucks!")

I actually know a lot of the best in the business in your city and the surrounding area.  Do you ever get up to Baltimore?  I have some friends up there who make pretty slammin' cocktails.  A lot of professional and semi-professional brewers and distillers.  One of them runs a semi-secret pop-up speakeasy that specializes in throwback cocktails.  We'll be neighbors when I get back from SE Asia next month.  If you ever want to check it out and can't find it on your own, shoot me an email and I'll hook you up.

Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown.  Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )


I'm going to be up the road in DC for the Craft Brewers Conference next week, ill try to hit that Ramen joint.

Of course, i live just down the road in Richmond, so i really don't need an excuse for a day trip. Hopefully the beer I make will be available in DC proper this year. Right now we're in northern Va, and Baltimore and Baltimore county
 
2013-03-14 03:17:37 PM

Girion47: Ebbelwoi: Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof

Jeez what is it with you wise crackers.  People frickin travel.  Usually for business.  Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES.  We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.

It's called Yelp, they have a mobile app, your lack of preparation should not be someone else's problem.


Not everyone wants advice from people they would never ever ask for advice.
 
2013-03-14 03:28:35 PM

IRQ12: offmymeds: [www.nypost.com image 299x300]

Walk in to this guy's bar and with a straight face say "I'd like a Sterno '85 with a NyQuil chaser, my good man."

/hilarity will ensue

Look, baby still has his training wheels on!  How artisanal!

(no self respecting bartender uses a jigger unless absolutely required to)


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-14 03:37:40 PM
Hey d-bag,

Pour me a farking vodka club in a pint glass, put a twist of lime in it, and give it to me. Save your douche-attitude, and you might get 30% if you're quick enough.
 
2013-03-14 03:38:26 PM
A bartenders needs to keep his or her opinions on the drink that are ordered to themselves. make the drink and move on to the next order.

if you tell me my choice of drink sucks guess who isn't going to get tipped.
 
2013-03-14 04:03:28 PM
The only time I ever had a bartender give me crap about a drink is when I knew the bartender and we kept ordering the drink he hated to make the most (nuts & berries shooters) and we just wanted to fark with him cause hey thats what friends do.
 
2013-03-14 04:04:35 PM

Kahabut: Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way.  YOU farkING WORK FOR ME.  I pay you to bring me what I ask for.  If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care.

 They work for the owner of the establishment and in some cases, design the menus, source ingredients, design the interior and do hiring and firing. If making you happy subverts what the establishment is designed to do, it may be more expensive than just letting you leave pissed off. If the employee is extremely talented, it may be more expensive to have him put up with your attitude than just throw you out on your ear.
Also, you shouldn't think of other people this way, it shows in your demeanor and they can tell. No sense in degrading another person, you're not royalty, you still have to respect others and their opinions even if you have managed to accumulate enough money to visit a restaurant.
 
2013-03-14 04:14:10 PM

IRQ12: offmymeds: [www.nypost.com image 299x300]

Walk in to this guy's bar and with a straight face say "I'd like a Sterno '85 with a NyQuil chaser, my good man."

/hilarity will ensue

Look, baby still has his training wheels on!  How artisanal!

(no self respecting bartender uses a jigger unless absolutely required to)


Lets see what Lewis Black has to say about these "artisanal" people, such as this esteemed bartender.

www.takepart.com
"Oh what a surprise, a Trust Fund Hipster talking out of his arse!!!"
 
2013-03-14 04:25:41 PM
She's lucky it wasn't me, I'd have hit that idiot redhead with the bottle.

She's too stupid to even walk after being served something she didn't like.
 
JVD
2013-03-14 04:29:43 PM
In the bartender's defense, vodka belongs nowhere near a martini.
 
2013-03-14 04:37:46 PM

Ebbelwoi: Johnsnownw: Also, if you drink alcohol to get drunk or a buzz, then again...do it at home. Need to drown your sorrows and relax from a stressful day, but do it with Nati Light...do it at Chili's or any other pseudo-sports bar type place. Leave the craft bars/pubs to people who enjoy and respect alcohol. You'll save money, and be one less douchenozzle in my way at the bar.

/Realize what type of place you patron
//Not every place that has a liquor license is tailored to your "style" or lack-thereof

Jeez what is it with you wise crackers.  People frickin travel.  Usually for business.  Travelers tend to end up in BIG CITIES.  We don't have time to farking research every frickin joint in town when we just want a drink after the business day ends.


If you can't tell what type of place you've entered after walking through the front door, there is no help for you.
 
2013-03-14 04:44:16 PM
since when is vodka soda a "moron drink"... wouldnt a rum and coke be considered a moron drink? i thought vodka sodas were "hip and cool" now, because you can actually "taste the alcohol"
 
2013-03-14 04:51:42 PM

JVD: In the bartender's defense, vodka belongs nowhere near a martini.


Tell that to this guy.

ramp.ie
 
2013-03-14 04:54:00 PM

mccallcl: Kahabut: Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way.  YOU farkING WORK FOR ME.  I pay you to bring me what I ask for.  If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care.
 They work for the owner of the establishment and in some cases, design the menus, source ingredients, design the interior and do hiring and firing. If making you happy subverts what the establishment is designed to do, it may be more expensive than just letting you leave pissed off. If the employee is extremely talented, it may be more expensive to have him put up with your attitude than just throw you out on your ear.
Also, you shouldn't think of other people this way, it shows in your demeanor and they can tell. No sense in degrading another person, you're not royalty, you still have to respect others and their opinions even if you have managed to accumulate enough money to visit a restaurant.


You know how I can tell you have never run a business of any kind?

I never said I was royalty, that is you projecting your own issues.  I said, people in service jobs, work for the people they are their to serve.  Either they realize that, and do their best to handle any reasonable request, or they are destined to be bitter assholes in the next fark Tip Thread.
 
2013-03-14 04:59:46 PM

grimlock1972: A bartenders needs to keep his or her opinions on the drink that are ordered to themselves. make the drink and move on to the next order.

if you tell me my choice of drink sucks guess who isn't going to get tipped.


I normally agree with sentiments like this. And I do think that Vodka is part of a well stocked bar. My preferred is Sirius made here in town, but i wouldn't put it in the same category as the usual NGS stuff people drink to just get Hammered. More of a potato liqueur, i guess. Has body and character. Stands on its own. And the only way i would consciously drink a neat vodak martini.

But, I digress.

If a place is putting itself forward as a mixologist type of place. Then yeah, you should be going in there with expectations of going for fancy drinks, not regular drinks, or regular drinks, made with some type of consideration to the cocktail itself

My favorite drink is a capirana, but try to find a bar that knows what the hell cachaca is let alone carry it. If i go into a fancy drinks bar I will expect them to know what the hell I'm talking about and to pull it off.
If i order a whiskey sour, i expect it to be whiskey, simple syrup (heavy please, not sugar water) and lemon juice. Add a couple os teaspoons of egg white before the shake if you are feeling fancy. Not a couple of shots of whiskey topped off with soda gun sour mix and soda water.

I don't care if the whiskey is rail, don't mess up good whiskey by putting it in a cocktail after all, you want something a little rough to stand up under the onslaught of the sweet and sour so you still know you are drinking whiskey.

But at the same time.... if you have a bar of any type, i expect you to be able to make just about any drink request thrown at you, and, of course, if you are ordering a drink you should know what's going into it yourself. If you go into a regular bar that makes its bread and butter on vodka sodas be prepared to explain yourself. And if they can"t pull it off, because they wouldn't know theses ingredients, let alone stock them, don't take it out on them..have fun with them and see what kind of approximation they can pull off. But ONLY if they are not busy.

I've had many a fun time with bar staff trying to pull of an approximation obscure cocktail dealing with available ingredients. Tends to be an adventure and a grand time for all involved.
 
2013-03-14 05:18:05 PM

Molavian: Mixologist


I'll see that and raise you shiat Bartenders Say
 
2013-03-14 05:32:29 PM
<i>"The bartender chastised me for ordering a mainstream gin, and then he sold me something that I had never even heard of," recalls Weil, adding, "The whole thing was a degrading experience and makes me never want to go back there again." </i>

You, sir, are not the target clientele.  The target clientele are happy you were degraded

.

hideous: The problem as I see it is this.  When the d-bag bartender 'refused to make the drink',  all the customers in the article just took it.  The woman's father ordered 3 times?  The solution is one of two things.

1. I'd like a rum and coke.
(sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablabla
Ok (customer walks out, goes somewhere else, does not reward this behavior)
and/or
2. I'd like a run and coke
(Sigh) no I wouldn't lower myself blablabla
Great.  Go get your manager. (manager sees money.  Let him know yours is walking out the door, and why,  and watch that bullshiat stop right there.)


No.  It wouldn't.  The scene cocktail bars that cater to drink snobs want this as part of their "charm."  Much like how some beer bars sell bottled Bud Light for $6 but good craft draughts for $5 - to punish your ignorance.
 
2013-03-14 05:38:36 PM

gibbon1: A bartender that won't make a simple drink off menu is basically a turd. And probably still lives at home.


A bartender with a printed resume that says "mixologist" on it and a headshot isn't a bartender.  He's an overpaid Steward of Neat Booze or something. I've been a bartender, even a high end bartender. Unflappability is a requirement.

Then again, I would never expect to run into a bartender at a Lower East Side 19th century apothecary gimmick pit for dweebs, so the onus is sort of on the customer in this case.

Man, I miss Hudson Bar & Books.  Those were bartenders.
 
2013-03-14 05:46:28 PM
Shut up, give me my captain and coke which takes you all of 30 seconds to put together, and mind your own damn business.  If I wanted a unique drinking experience, I wouldn't be out at some loud-ass bar where I cant even hear myself think.

farking corksoakers.
 
2013-03-14 05:48:03 PM

sycraft: Alcohol snobs are always some of the funniest people to me. I've never got why it matters so much to them if people's taste in booze differs from theirs. To me, it seems like they really aren't all that secure in their tastes. Any time someone brings something different from what they want they perceive it as a challenge to what they like. They worry that they might be having the "wrong" drink.


You're way off. It's not snobbery...this chick went to a serious cocktail bar -- the article says they make their own tinctures and brine their own onions -- and ordered something tacky and stupid. It's like, you don't go to a Neopolitan brick-oven pizza joint and complain about slices of buffala mozz on the thing because it's not all gooey cheesy like Papa John's.

There are bars that make all their ingredients -- syrups, tinctures, bitters, juice blends, soda water, tonic water, grow their own produce for garnish/muddling, etc. -- and if you go in one and ask for a Cosmo they're gonna say no. Not all bars are the same: it's not who they are.
 
2013-03-14 05:56:39 PM

Mechdemon: If I wanted a unique drinking experience, I wouldn't be out at some loud-ass bar where I cant even hear myself think.


To be fair, in this instance a guy who works at a "unique drinking experience" is telling people who aren't looking for that to go find a loud-ass bar where they can't even hear themselves think.
 
2013-03-14 06:11:21 PM
There is a limited amount of things we actually need or can use, so every so often, some dick scratcher has to try and come up with a way to make it all look new. Once you have lived long enough to not only accept the fact the daily trappings of existence - food, liquids, shelter, entertainment - are inherently limited and, as far as quality, subjective and that you are very happy with the things that you know you like, marketing stops working on you.  That's why the ostentatiously hip and pissy are all young.  It not only still works on them but they are very worried about liking things that others don't approve of, plus - bonus - they have no idea what they like yet.  This is a constant source of amusement to those of us who can find their ass with both hands. Thank you and keep up the good work
 
2013-03-14 06:11:40 PM

Subliterati: alienated:Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.

It's called  Żubrówka and it's really nice mixed with pressed apple juice. The only vodka in my house.


I recently read about this and was excited to try it, but then saw that the real stuff is banned in the US.
 
2013-03-14 06:43:45 PM
Even after reading most of this thread, I still think the headline is about alternative butt chugging.
 
2013-03-14 06:57:58 PM

Cork on Fork: Subliterati: alienated:Not all vodka lacks flavour. I brought a bottle from Poland to a fark party that has a single stalk of bison grass. It is... unique. Some folks like it, some did not.

It's called  Żubrówka and it's really nice mixed with pressed apple juice. The only vodka in my house.

I recently read about this and was excited to try it, but then saw that the real stuff is banned in the US.


It's delicious.  I have a friend originally from Poland who brings the stuff back here all the time.
 
2013-03-14 08:12:18 PM

Kahabut: Listen up, everyone that works in a bar, restaurant, service of the public in any way.  YOU farkING WORK FOR ME.  I pay you to bring me what I ask for.  If you aren't really happy with that station in life, I don't farking care.


Yeah... until it's time to leave a tip, and then they work for the owner of the restaurant all of a sudden, amirite?

/just teasing
//I'm sure you're not one of douchebags I see in the tipping threads
 
2013-03-14 08:20:34 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Z-clipped: cptjeff: Boy do I have a place for you. If you're ever in DC...

Nice! It's good to see someone in the thread who understands what mixology is.

I was involved with restaurants that took this approach to food and drink for quite a long time, and had to work out lots of ways to curb the frustration people would experience when they were forced to try something new because I just didn't have the ingredients they were expecting.  Most of the time people were willing to come along for the ride, and they usually left knowing a lot more about spirits (or bitters, or vegetables, or cured meat, or whatever) then they did when they came in.  But there were always a few jackasses that just couldn't accept the idea of a bar refusing to cater to the lowest common denominator.  ("You don't have Stoli OR Goose?... OR pineapple juice??  This place sucks!")

I actually know a lot of the best in the business in your city and the surrounding area.  Do you ever get up to Baltimore?  I have some friends up there who make pretty slammin' cocktails.  A lot of professional and semi-professional brewers and distillers.  One of them runs a semi-secret pop-up speakeasy that specializes in throwback cocktails.  We'll be neighbors when I get back from SE Asia next month.  If you ever want to check it out and can't find it on your own, shoot me an email and I'll hook you up.

Also, my wife just opened a pretty amazing ramen bar in DC's Chinatown.  Go stuff your face with some noodles if you get the chance. ; )

I'm going to be up the road in DC for the Craft Brewers Conference next week, ill try to hit that Ramen joint.

Of course, i live just down the road in Richmond, so i really don't need an excuse for a day trip. Hopefully the beer I make will be available in DC proper this year. Right now we're in northern Va, and Baltimore and Baltimore county


Nice! I'm ashamed to say that I'm unfamiliar with your brewery. When I get back to the states, I'll make a point of tasting your beer. I know some people in the business who are always interested in expanding their list of local product. Maybe I can help make a connection.
 
2013-03-14 08:41:39 PM
no need to be ashamed., It's Legend Brewing Company, our marketing budget was for the longest time, mak a good beer, and it speaks for itself.. well... with the new explosion of craft beer, we'vve suddenly have had to start learning how to shout!

we've been in business for 20 years now, and we've always been up on NorVa, but limited. putting out 15kbbls a year now, so much more available.

I try not to talk directly of the brewery here on Fark to avoid sounding Spamy but booze is my biz, along with everything that goes along with that, But If ever asked directly... there ya go.

when you get back to the states, come on down to Richmond town and take the Saturday free tour of the beer mines, I'm the tour guide.
 
2013-03-14 08:44:06 PM
Sounds like the assholes here at Fark are bartenders too.
 
2013-03-14 10:46:18 PM

bunner: There is a limited amount of things we actually need or can use, so every so often, some dick scratcher has to try and come up with a way to make it all look new. Once you have lived long enough to not only accept the fact the daily trappings of existence - food, liquids, shelter, entertainment - are inherently limited and, as far as quality, subjective and that you are very happy with the things that you know you like, marketing stops working on you.  That's why the ostentatiously hip and pissy are all young.  It not only still works on them but they are very worried about liking things that others don't approve of, plus - bonus - they have no idea what they like yet.  This is a constant source of amusement to those of us who can find their ass with both hands. Thank you and keep up the good work


I know this is Fark and all, where snobbery is treason, but I'm going to risk derision and say that quality and workmanship are NOT 100% subjective attributes.

Education is part of appreciation. The reason you see a lot of younger people getting into high-end craft-related things like these cocktails isn't because of marketing. (People drink Grey Goose Bloody Marys because of marketing). It's because young people are more willing to leave their comfort zone and learn new things than older people are.

Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-03-14 10:55:17 PM

Cerebral Knievel: no need to be ashamed., It's Legend Brewing Company, our marketing budget was for the longest time, mak a good beer, and it speaks for itself.. well... with the new explosion of craft beer, we'vve suddenly have had to start learning how to shout!

we've been in business for 20 years now, and we've always been up on NorVa, but limited. putting out 15kbbls a year now, so much more available.

I try not to talk directly of the brewery here on Fark to avoid sounding Spamy but booze is my biz, along with everything that goes along with that, But If ever asked directly... there ya go.

when you get back to the states, come on down to Richmond town and take the Saturday free tour of the beer mines, I'm the tour guide.


You're on! Thanks for the invitation.
 
2013-03-14 11:16:39 PM

WhiskeyBoy: cptjeff:Seriously folks, they have the cheaper sling whatever crappy drinks you want places in NYC too- these are the equivalent of fine dining. You order something nice, not tasteless shiat to get hammered. If that's not your scene, fine. But going into a craft cocktail bar and ordering a vodka tonic is like going into Chez Paul in Jorts and trying to order pop tarts. Don't.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.  The gourmet concept travels across all manner of food and drink.  The entire gourmet industry has basically set itself up on one-upping the next guy.  Any restaurant or bar has the right to deny you service, and you have the right to refuse to be a patron of any establishment you dislike.  It's that simple.  Granted, it sounds like the douchey bartender could at least be a little more considerate in explaining the concept of a "gourmet" bar to their confused patrons.


Except that's not a good comparison.

It's like going to Chez Paul and ordering a steak well done.  Or with A1.  Whatever, it's their meal/money.  They may be making a tasteless order and are a moron for it, but you can fulfill their order and are a bigger moron for not doing so.
 
2013-03-14 11:19:22 PM
I just want some fresh wine. None of that old stuff. Maybe a nice muscatel.
 
2013-03-14 11:42:58 PM

Z-clipped: Education is part of appreciation. The reason you see a lot of younger people getting into high-end craft-related things like these cocktails isn't because of marketing. (People drink Grey Goose Bloody Marys because of marketing). It's because young people are more willing to leave their comfort zone and learn new things than older people are.

Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.


I am sure there are a few bars still like that out there, but not the bar in the story (and there are many more examples of a bar like this in NYC and other towns and cities with a significant Hipster population). A good bar that could name themselves "mixologists" would have a selection of drinks available on a menu, maybe even an inexpensive sample selection so you may enjoy the various differences between separately mixed drinks at the bartender's *recommendation*.  *THIS* bar on the other hand has name brand liquors on the counter to take up space (probably makes the bar selection look good to lure in people with Facebook pictures), with the bartender actively insulting you because you want a product that he clearly has available yet won't sell you because "That person is an idiot and doesn't understand how 'better' artisanal alcohol is, I shall not waste my time with this customer" in the bartender's mind and vocally disparage the customer to that point.  If the bartender doesn't want to sell a product he has in the bar, don't stock it, and don't act like a Hipster douche because you want people to follow your way instead of them following their own individual choice. (Apparently the "alternative" Hipster bartender wants everyone to conform to his way of doing things. How ironic!)

A salesman makes suggestions to the customer in order to broaden their horizons, show them something that they might not think about trying and/or purchasing on their own, to increase sales. A salesman does not refuse to sell to a customer on the basis that the customer is willing to purchase something but not the exact thing that the salesman wanted the customer to purchase.
 
2013-03-14 11:53:07 PM
i22.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 01:30:54 AM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Shut up and give me my Everclear and red Gatorade, asshole.

/Because I want to get drunk RIGHT NOW
//And I may have to do some running later
///Electrolytes!


had to add you as a favorite after this comment... that was my favorite drink in college, but I used red Powerade instead... called it Powerclear.
 
2013-03-15 01:31:37 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: *THIS* bar on the other hand has name brand liquors on the counter to take up space (probably makes the bar selection look good to lure in people with Facebook pictures),


By "THIS bar" do you mean  Apothéke?  I've never been, but photos of the bar don't show a large array of the usual suspects, and I don't see any vodka at all.  Looking at their website, my professional experience gives me the impression that they're doing it right, not trying to lure people in with promises of Stoli Vanil and Coke, and then pulling a switcheroo and trying to force them to drink a French 75.

As for a cocktail menu, yes, what you describe is how many good mixology bars do it.  Tonique in New Orleans has a 10-page menu with extensive historical background on most of their cocktails (and probably the gruffest bartender I've ever met, but I don't blame him considering the idiots who come walking into the place off of Bourbon St.).

Apothéke OTOH seems to have built themselves on a theme of "prescriptions", where the bartender gets a feel for what you like, and then creates something unique off-the-cuff to fit your personal tastes.  I think that sounds like a lot of fun, and would definitely go to check out their chops.  But if I was in the mood to drink a beer (or a vodka soda), I'd have the sense to go somewhere else, for the same reason that I wouldn't go to Alinea or Minibar if I were in the mood for comfort food.

If you're talking about the bar at Prime Meats, I don't know what to tell you.  Never been there.  They may very well be a bunch of douchebags.  They DO have a decent looking cocktail menu though.

Death + Company practically founded the cocktail revival movement in this area. If you walk into that bar without knowing where you are, you deserve whatever you get.  Those guys don't screw around, and they've been doing craft cocktails for long enough that people should know better.

I don't know... for every really cutting edge place that's trying to hone an honest craft, there are 5 money-grab operations around the corner trying to rip off their theme with minimal substance.  It's the nature of the business.  The only point I'm trying to make is that there's nothing inherently "hipster" about the craft cocktail thing.  It's really worth learning about if you like booze and have (or want to have) a discerning palette.
 
2013-03-15 01:55:05 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: A salesman makes suggestions to the customer in order to broaden their horizons, show them something that they might not think about trying and/or purchasing on their own, to increase sales. A salesman does not refuse to sell to a customer on the basis that the customer is willing to purchase something but not the exact thing that the salesman wanted the customer to purchase.


Oh, and a couple of things on this subject:

Good bartenders aren't just salesmen.  They're craftsmen and tradesmen.  A salesman who's only concern is selling as much as possible makes suggestions to increase sales.  A better salesman educates people about what they make, allowing the customer to understand the quality of what they're being offered, and make an informed purchase that they'll be happier with in the long run.  It's called "having professional integrity".  And a craftsman/tradesman should be allowed to look out for his reputation and cultivate the clientele he wants.

Think about what would happen if you walked into a salon with 4 feet of beautiful flowing hair and said "cut it all off, shave my head".  The stylist would certainly put up a fight, probably try to talk you down to taking off 6 inches, and might even refuse to do it at all in the end.  They don't want to be responsible for you being unhappy, or someone seeing that kind of thing go on in their place, because it hurts their credibility.  Sure, they're there to provide a service, but that doesn't obligate them to comply with every request they get.

I know it's hard for some people to understand, but these bars aren't operating with the intention to just move as much product as possible...  They're providing a service and a product that they feel meets their standard of integrity.  It's not the customer's place to insist that they lower their standards or conform to a particular concept just because, as someone else in the thread said, they have $20.
 
2013-03-15 02:09:28 AM

Z-clipped: DarkSoulNoHope: *THIS* bar on the other hand has name brand liquors on the counter to take up space (probably makes the bar selection look good to lure in people with Facebook pictures),

By "THIS bar" do you mean  Apothéke?  I've never been, but photos of the bar don't show a large array of the usual suspects, and I don't see any vodka at all.  Looking at their website, my professional experience gives me the impression that they're doing it right, not trying to lure people in with promises of Stoli Vanil and Coke, and then pulling a switcheroo and trying to force them to drink a French 75.

As for a cocktail menu, yes, what you describe is how many good mixology bars do it.  Tonique in New Orleans has a 10-page menu with extensive historical background on most of their cocktails (and probably the gruffest bartender I've ever met, but I don't blame him considering the idiots who come walking into the place off of Bourbon St.).

Apothéke OTOH seems to have built themselves on a theme of "prescriptions", where the bartender gets a feel for what you like, and then creates something unique off-the-cuff to fit your personal tastes.  I think that sounds like a lot of fun, and would definitely go to check out their chops.  But if I was in the mood to drink a beer (or a vodka soda), I'd have the sense to go somewhere else, for the same reason that I wouldn't go to Alinea or Minibar if I were in the mood for comfort food.

If you're talking about the bar at Prime Meats, I don't know what to tell you.  Never been there.  They may very well be a bunch of douchebags.  They DO have a decent looking cocktail menu though.

Death + Company practically founded the cocktail revival movement in this area. If you walk into that bar without knowing where you are, you deserve whatever you get.  Those guys don't screw around, and they've been doing craft cocktails for long enough that people should know better.

I don't know... for every really cutting edge place that's trying to hone an ...


Mainly Prime Meats by the story, since that seems to be what occurred (plus I checked their menu, that better be damn good meat for the prices they're spewing!), but my point is more that customer service should come a little bit ahead of being "unique" "hip" and/or "edgy" in attitudes towards patrons. If I go into a place that I have never been before (experimenting a little with random adventures), I usually search for something familiar on the menu saying to myself "Well, if this tastes good, maybe I'll try something a little different later in the meal later on", and I wouldn't expect someone to go "Well yeah, we could serve you *that* but you would be stupid for trying that! No, I shall be ordering something I know you shall enjoy" without that person receiving either an angry retort or me just walking out.

As for Death + Company, I don't know who would really want to go to a place called Death + Company other than morbid people like me! (Joking of course, I am sure it's quite popular among the mixed drink crowds as you claim) Maybe they should change the name to Brain Cell Destruction + Company? :-D
 
2013-03-15 02:31:28 AM

Z-clipped: I know it's hard for some people to understand, but these bars aren't operating with the intention to just move as much product as possible... They're providing a service and a product that they feel meets their standard of integrity. It's not the customer's place to insist that they lower their standards or conform to a particular concept just because, as someone else in the thread said, they have $20.


Yes, but many of these places don't extol that in any sort of warning to the customer. Maybe a sign over the bar and/or on the menu stating that, "We reject customer requests for boring liquor orders at the bartender's (or "mixologist's" if you want to use that stupid term, IMHO) discretion."  Without a warning in the open to customers that this "Isn't that kind of bar", they get peeved if they're new to the venue. A place of business should be welcoming as much clientele as possible while informing people who might not want that kind of attitude/service to avoid the place. It may be an internet world, but not everyone is going to jump on the internet to view the reviews while they are hungry and/or thirsty and see a place they think they might enjoy that's close by.

As for your argument about hair, it would be my hair, not the stylist's choice to make at the end if I decided to shave mine off. They could refuse to do the job and lose the business if they so choose to, but they would be warning that customer in advance, not insulting the customer directly for making a "stupid choice" in the stylist's mind  and forcing another style on them because "that's not what we do here, but I'll do a style I know you want, now sit back and relax till I'm done" (again, without the employee knowing anything about the customer and after getting a direct request to do something differently). They keep it to themselves and maybe joke about it to their co-workers after the customer has left, but the customer's feelings are angered as much, that's a better way to handle it.

It's not the customer requesting that the bar conforms to a particular concept, it is the customer's request that the bar be flexible when that bar clearly has the product available but doesn't want to provide it because they're Hipster douches! I have a feeling that some of these Hipster bars will yell at you for a "rum and coke" or a Budweiser and attempt push some sort of elaborate and expensive "artisanal" mixed drink on the customer, but will be happy to sell you the Papst Blue Ribbon that's on tap if you request it!
 
2013-03-15 02:33:30 AM
customer's feelings aren't angered as much, that's a better way to handle it.

Fixed
 
2013-03-15 02:36:28 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: As for Death + Company, I don't know who would really want to go to a place called Death + Company other than morbid people like me! (Joking of course, I am sure it's quite popular among the mixed drink crowds as you claim) Maybe they should change the name to Brain Cell Destruction + Company? :-D


Why "Death & Co."?  It's an allusion to the portrayal of alcohol by Temperance movement:

www.fasttrackteaching.com

ncpedia.org


From their website:

In 1919 the Volstead Act brought a swift end to nightlife, and the refined craft of the American bartender was outlawed. It was thought that to drink alcohol was to live a life shadowed by death.  It was thought by some that these were death and company.  It's taken us nearly a century for us to restore flavor to the drink and class to specialty cocktails.  In our time, a night to celebrate life's simple pleasures with fine wine, exquisitely crafted cocktails, beautifully prepared food and impeccable sipping spirits is a rare gift.  To those who shun the night, we tip our hat.  To those who shine after dusk, we offer a warm embrace.  Welcome to the new golden age.  Welcome to Death & Co.
 
2013-03-15 02:41:15 AM

Z-clipped: DarkSoulNoHope: As for Death + Company, I don't know who would really want to go to a place called Death + Company other than morbid people like me! (Joking of course, I am sure it's quite popular among the mixed drink crowds as you claim) Maybe they should change the name to Brain Cell Destruction + Company? :-D

Why "Death & Co."?  It's an allusion to the portrayal of alcohol by Temperance movement:

[www.fasttrackteaching.com image 446x630]

[ncpedia.org image 384x360]


From their website:

In 1919 the Volstead Act brought a swift end to nightlife, and the refined craft of the American bartender was outlawed. It was thought that to drink alcohol was to live a life shadowed by death.  It was thought by some that these were death and company.  It's taken us nearly a century for us to restore flavor to the drink and class to specialty cocktails.  In our time, a night to celebrate life's simple pleasures with fine wine, exquisitely crafted cocktails, beautifully prepared food and impeccable sipping spirits is a rare gift.  To those who shun the night, we tip our hat.  To those who shine after dusk, we offer a warm embrace.  Welcome to the new golden age.  Welcome to Death & Co.


Gives nice meaning to the bar, I hope they have Death in June ready on the Jukebox!  Or Siouxise and the Banshees, or Christian Death, or London After Midnight, or some other band I would enjoy if I went there. :-P
 
2013-03-15 03:27:30 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: Maybe a sign over the bar and/or on the menu stating that, "We reject customer requests for boring liquor orders at the bartender's (or "mixologist's" if you want to use that stupid term, IMHO) discretion."


They could do that, I suppose.  Or maybe they just figure that the ignorant ones will figure it out on their own, eventually.  After all, they're looking to cater to the crowd that does know what they're doing.  Not the random people who don't take the trouble to find out.  Personally, I think a sign like that would be tacky.

DarkSoulNoHope: It's not the customer requesting that the bar conforms to a particular concept,


The concept of a rye Manhattan made with a carefully chosen whiskey, 3 kinds of homemade bitters, and orange syrup that was cooked down in-house from fresh fruit, is MUCH different from the concept of a Stoli and Coke.  They're made in completely different ways.  They serve completely different purposes.  You drink them for completely different reasons.

You wouldn't pay $100 to go to a Broadway show and chat with your friends through the entire thing...  These guys don't want to serve their $16 masterpiece cocktails to people who aren't going to pay attention to what they're drinking.  That's their choice; they're the ones with the bar, and the booze, and the skills.

it is the customer's request that the bar be flexible when that bar clearly has the product available but doesn't want to provide it because they're Hipster douches!

You're missing the point.  The liquor isn't the product they're selling.  The craft and the experience of that craft are the product.  Liquor stores sell liquor.  Grocers sell food.  Bars and restaurants (the good ones, anyway) sell a drinking/dining experience that involves every part of the place from the ice cubes to the glassware to the skill of the bartender or chef, to the presentation of the food/drink, to the service, to the decorations on the walls.

DarkSoulNoHope: As for your argument about hair, it would be my hair, not the stylist's choice to make at the end if I decided to shave mine off. They could refuse to do the job and lose the business if they so choose to, but they would be warning that customer in advance


No, you'd be asking for a service, and they would be telling you that they don't want to perform it.   It's your hair, but it's their scissors and chair.  They wouldn't be "losing" your business, they'd be refusing your business.  This is no different from a bartender telling you he won't make you a vodka tonic because it's not one of the drinks he feels comfortable serving in his establishment.

I don't know where you get the idea that you're entitled to dictate what product a bar sells (and again by "product" I don't mean what brand of liquor).  I know you have your own preconceptions about what a bar is, but bucking those preconceptions is pretty much exactly the point of what these guys are trying to do.  That's why a place like Apothéke goes to such trouble to make the atmosphere and decor speak to a theme that's thought-inspiring.

The only agreement you'll get from me is that they should try to be as polite as they can manage about sticking to their guns, because that's just good business and common decency.

DarkSoulNoHope: but will be happy to sell you the Papst Blue Ribbon that's on tap if you request it!


This is just a silly assumption on your part.  You've already labeled this entire situation a "hipster" thing, and that's going to color all of your assumptions, apparently.  Nothing I can do about that.
 
2013-03-15 04:27:59 AM

Z-clipped: Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.


No, it's wonderful.  However, at the end of the day, yes the value of that craft is still reasonably subjective and if you stock old panther piss and somebody orders old panther piss, you pour it and make sure they have a bevnap.  I have found that most truly artistic or artisan efforts are seldom indexed to something else.  Precedent is a valid aspect of any craft, but it's seldom the point to the product.
 
2013-03-15 04:57:21 AM

bunner: Z-clipped: Sure, there are some idiots who just need a "thing" to have some social agency, but the bar owners and bartenders who are doing this stuff aren't in it for that reason. They're trying to perfect a craft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

No, it's wonderful.  However, at the end of the day, yes the value of that craft is still reasonably subjective and if you stock old panther piss and somebody orders old panther piss, you pour it and make sure they have a bevnap.  I have found that most truly artistic or artisan efforts are seldom indexed to something else.  Precedent is a valid aspect of any craft, but it's seldom the point to the product.


I hear you.  I think my point ultimately goes back to professional integrity, and the fact that a lot of people apparently think it's something that doesn't or shouldn't exist in the service industry.

Bear in mind, this thread isn't really about the choices bartenders are making.  It's about the choices business owners are making.
 
2013-03-15 05:29:25 AM

Z-clipped: Bear in mind, this thread isn't really about the choices bartenders are making.  It's about the choices business owners are making.


And there has e'er lain the disconnect between art and commerce and twas ever thus.   :  \
 
2013-03-15 06:22:19 AM

Z-clipped: I hear you. I think my point ultimately goes back to professional integrity, and the fact that a lot of people apparently think it's something that doesn't or shouldn't exist in the service industry.


Any bartender who is prejudiced about goddamn beverage choices has every right to be snooty.  Just as the meathead outside with the exact facial hair has every right to pretend he is Judge Dredd.  Just as the record store guy has the only musical taste of note and it is always contrary to yours, even if it means contradicting his own.  It isn't about craftsmanship at that point, it's about dominance.  It's hostility.

People who think other people's service jobs are inferior and that therefore they are inferior people are undoubtedly assholes.  But then again, so are service industry workers who talk about their "craft" as if they are actors (same goes for "actors" who talk about their "craft").


www.commonsensewithmoney.com

My kraft.  It is honed.
 
2013-03-15 07:48:54 AM

thamike: It isn't about craftsmanship at that point, it's about dominance.  It's hostility.


Have you actually spent any time with the kind of people you're talking about?  Because I have, and I can assure you that while there are certainly people who have social dominance issues, most bartenders that I know who are any good do the job because on some level, they just enjoy making people happy.

thamike: People who think other people's service jobs are inferior and that therefore they are inferior people are undoubtedly assholes.  But then again, so are service industry workers who talk about their "craft" as if they are actors (same goes for "actors" who talk about their "craft").


What a silly thing to say.  "Both sides are bad, because 'craft'"?  What do you have against the word "craft"?  It just means "using skill make something that wasn't there before".  Bartenders make cocktails.  Carpenters make chairs.  Potters make bowls.  Chefs make food. Actors?... well you might have a point there, but it's an irrelevant one at best.

You don't think what these guys make is important?  That's cool.  A lot of people spend time and energy on a lot of things that I don't find important too.  I don't usually call them "assholes" for it, though.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-15 11:41:46 AM
intoxicologist.net

Buffalo Trace neat.  Don't put ice in it, don't water it down, don't squeeze any goddamned lemon into it.  If I wanted to drink Pledge, well I know where to get that.

Oh, and please, don't serve it in a cognac snifter.  Bourbon = tumbler.  Always.

Oh and BTW, yer not a "mixologist" when the drink involves one ingredient poured from a bottle into a correct clean glass.  Now you're a server.
 
2013-03-15 12:02:16 PM
Repeat after me:

"I'm sorry, we don't have all the ingredients for that.  If you're looking for something with (attribute of the drink that was ordered), may I suggest a (menu drink that shares that attribute)?"
 
2013-03-15 12:26:05 PM

Fano: I just want some fresh wine. None of that old stuff. Maybe a nice muscatel.


weimax.com

How about a nice fortified tokay?
 
2013-03-15 12:35:10 PM

NaziKamikaze: Except that's not a good comparison.

It's like going to Chez Paul and ordering a steak well done.  Or with A1.  Whatever, it's their meal/money.  They may be making a tasteless order and are a moron for it, but you can fulfill their order and are a bigger moron for not doing so.


It may be worse in the long run for their business to just suck it up and make that order to please a bad customer. So you go into a high end steakhouse and order their 60 day aged prime ny strip well done and smothered in A1... You've just pretty much destroyed all the hard work that went into that piece of meat, the time and care that the farmer put into raising the cow, the payroll investment of the restaurant for their skilled butcher, the money they spent on their special climate and humidity controlled beef aging locker, the well payed highly skilled and trained grillardine who just wasted a bunch of time watching this piece of meat on his grill. And then you go and cover it in some sauce that came out of a bottle that the restaurant had no hand in and does nothing to differenciate them from anywhere else with A1... Yeah you're a paying customer, but I think they have a right to be pisses at someone destroying their hard work.

Lets say you make your living restoring cars, some guy brings you something to work on and you spend weeks beautifully restoring it. Then the guy picks it up, shrugs and says he's using it in a demolition derby the next week. I think you have every right to be pissed at this guy for wasting your time when you could have been working on something for someone who will actually appreciate it, money be damned.

And as for the restaurants bottom line and why this may be worse? So you're at a high end steak house, order your well done A1 smothered steak, you enjoy it well enough, the bill comes... "Why am I being charged $50 for this steak, it tasted just like the well done and A1 smothered steak I ha at Applebee's last week and that was only $8.99! This place is a ripoff!" Then you go and tell your friends that the place served you a mediocre steak and charged you through the nose for it an tell them never to go there, or worse, go on yelp and post a review stating as such. That is going to hurt the restaurants reputation (which can be everything in many crowded markets) than pissing off one possibly unreasonable customer.
 
2013-03-15 04:33:59 PM

Z-clipped: Have you actually spent any time with the kind of people you're talking about?


You obviously have read nothing else I've written in this thread.  Which is even more evident in everything that followed the above rhetorical question.

Having a craft is one thing.  Referring to "my craft" in mixed company is obnoxious. Trust me, I have actually spent a lot of time with the kind of people I'm talking about. Still, pointing out obnoxiousness can be done lightheartedly, which is what I'm doing here--for "both sides" (there are no two sides, just the assholes I am referring to).  Take a breath and remember where you are.
 
2013-03-15 04:40:27 PM

Z-clipped: Bartenders make cocktails. Carpenters make chairs. Potters make bowls. Chefs make food.


Two of these are service industry workers, the other two are craftsmen.  And while I think that the preparation food and drink employs craftsmanship, I'll guarantee you (as someone who has been all of these) that waiters, bartenders, and cooks don't openly refer to their jobs as "crafts" without meeting peals of laughter from their colleagues.
 
2013-03-15 06:57:21 PM

thamike: Z-clipped: Bartenders make cocktails. Carpenters make chairs. Potters make bowls. Chefs make food.

Two of these are service industry workers, the other two are craftsmen.  And while I think that the preparation food and drink employs craftsmanship, I'll guarantee you (as someone who has been all of these) that waiters, bartenders, and cooks don't openly refer to their jobs as "crafts" without meeting peals of laughter from their colleagues.


Wait, you've been a potter? I don't believe you.

And yes, if you're very good at something, the art of it matters to you, and you find an audience that appreciates the art. All chefs are not equal, just as, say, Jimi Hendrix and that goofball on the subway platform or the douche in the band that played your wedding are not equal guitar players.  Do you really think that proper chefs and fine carpenters are merely "service industry," right there alongside Wal-Mart greeters and gas pumpers? You want to lump Ferran Adria and Alain Ducasse or whoever alongside the guy in a white jacket at Bennigan's, well, that's your mistake.

I was a line cook in a three-star joint for many years...best line I ever heard the chef say? He stopped a plate that was about to go out, took it to the cook that plated it, and made him recook it, stating, "we serve the food here, we don't schlep it." And that's the difference.
 
2013-03-15 08:49:27 PM

Scrotastic Method: Wait, you've been a potter? I don't believe you.

And yes, if you're very good at something, the art of it matters to you, and you find an audience that appreciates the art. All chefs are not equal, just as, say, Jimi Hendrix and that goofball on the subway platform or the douche in the band that played your wedding are not equal guitar players. Do you really think that proper chefs and fine carpenters are merely "service industry," right there alongside Wal-Mart greeters and gas pumpers? You want to lump Ferran Adria and Alain Ducasse or whoever alongside the guy in a white jacket at Bennigan's, well, that's your mistake.


Somewhere out there is the point you missed.

I was a line cook in a three-star joint for many years...

Then you know precisely what I'm talking about. Pretense and self congratulatory jargon is for non-professionals.

best line I ever heard the chef say?

"That one's yours.  Those two lines are for me."  But that was a line cook, not the chef.  Best line I ever heard a chef say was, around 8:30 on a Friday night, "Gwyneth Paltrow wants to see me?  I want to come on her face."
 
2013-03-16 03:24:17 AM

thamike: Referring to "my craft" in mixed company is obnoxious.

thamike: Take a breath and remember where you are.


I don't mean to be rude, but given that you're in a thread where no one has done what you're complaining about, perhaps you should take your own advice?

thamike: Two of these are service industry workers, the other two are craftsmen.


A baseless distinction. You even go on to tacitly admit that it's baseless in you next post.

thamike: I'll guarantee you (as someone who has been all of these) that waiters, bartenders, and cooks don't openly refer to their jobs as "crafts" without meeting peals of laughter from their colleagues.


So? That doesn't make it not the case. I'm submitting that some bartenders (like the ones mentioned in the article) are in fact craftsmen, despite the social stigma placed on service jobs. Pointing out that people (even ones inside the industry) have a skewed view of restaurant work doesn't refute my point, it supports it. (And I don't know why you're bringing waiters into the discussion. I didn't, and wouldn't, label them craftsmen.)

thamike: Pretense and self congratulatory jargon is for non-professionals.


And I reiterate that you're borrowing trouble with this tack, and you're doing it because you're hung up on a word that happens to be completely accurate. I'm saying that not enough people understand that what the guys at Death and Co. are doing is a craft worthy of respect, and you're countering with "Well, most people don't think of it as a craft, therefore they're being pretentious, even though they're not the ones using the term in this discussion."

Most people don't even think of FOH restaurant work as a trade in the US. People assume that it's not a worthy or lucrative profession to the point that they'll come right out and ask you what it is that you "really" do while you're serving them. ("Fark you, I do THIS asshole, and if it wasn't valuable, you wouldn't have just waited 45 minutes for a seat at my bar!") That's been going on for so long that the business is now half-full of people who have bought into the idea themselves. There's no reason to shiat on a few elite bartenders who are just trying to reclaim a tiny bit of dignity for their profession and have some pride in what they make. They're no less craftsmen than cabinet makers, or metal smiths, or jewelers.

thamike: Best line I ever heard a chef say was, around 8:30 on a Friday night, "Gwyneth Paltrow wants to see me? I want to come on her face."


Well, you may be fibbing about being a potter, but this at least proves that you've worked in a kitchen before. I'll give you that.

Scrotastic Method: And yes, if you're very good at something, the art of it matters to you, and you find an audience that appreciates the art. All chefs are not equal, just as, say, Jimi Hendrix and that goofball on the subway platform or the douche in the band that played your wedding are not equal guitar players. Do you really think that proper chefs and fine carpenters are merely "service industry," right there alongside Wal-Mart greeters and gas pumpers? You want to lump Ferran Adria and Alain Ducasse or whoever alongside the guy in a white jacket at Bennigan's, well, that's your mistake.


Yes, exactly.
 
2013-03-16 10:26:06 AM

Z-clipped: I don't mean to be rude, but given that you're in a thread where no one has done what you're complaining about, perhaps you should take your own advice?


 I hate these trifles about a meta-discussion about a meta-argument about a joke regarding a bullsh*t article. Reasonable people don't even do this when they are without a written record.
You know what I'm about.  You know I'm not the one freaking out over the meaning of "craft" in any way, which isn't pertinent to the topic at large.  And you know that the people I'm digging at--on "both sides" as you say--are easy, deserving targets.  It's not a two sided thing.  I'm pointing out assholes.  You just felt like dragging it all around into the "I just don't seem to get the very simple point can you explain it again" territory, for hell knows what reason.  Remind me never to get high with you.

 
CTRL + Q to Enable/Disable GoPhoto.itCTRL + Q to Enable/Disable GoPhoto.it
 
2013-03-16 10:26:41 AM
I don't know where that thing came from.
 
2013-03-16 11:38:01 AM

thamike: I hate these trifles about a meta-discussion


The point I was making was, I've been trying to actually discuss this topic with a little bit of insight in order to help non-industry people understand that the article was ignorantly generalizing about "hipster mixologists", and you want to twist something I said into something nobody said for the purpose of being snarky.  Fine.  Whatever.  Everybody's an asshole.  Have your fun.  Nobody but me is reading your posts anyway.
 
2013-03-17 02:55:05 AM
The problem isn't a lack of craft of a lack of craftsmen.  The problem is the Renaissance is finally over and there's no unexplored, heretofore unfathomably nifty new horizons to master and bring the fruits thereof to the grateful masses.  We're all moved in, we've been to the moon, we can travel anywhere on the planet is two day's time, tops.  Food?  Check.  Corporatised, inspected, injected, flash frozen distributed, strawberries-in-winter available and everything has been sprinkled on everything else.  Hooch?  Regulated, flavored, tax stamped and you can walk in any bar in the world and order something from someplace else.  Fabrics?  Even the poorest of the poor can walk around in designer labeled frippery and frocks, and pull an EBT card out of their Mizrahi bag.

The only thing advancing is this bloated monster of interconnected, radio enabled, faster than last week doodads with QWERTY keyboards, flat panel screens and more ports than Istanbul.  And all they really do is create, process, and display simulacums of stuff we've already have had for ages.  They just smoosh stuff down into little, pocket sized pretendy "just as good as" copies and fling them hither and yon and allow Joe in Weehawken to tell Olivia in Minsk that, "z0mg, U have teh hot bod, babe!1" in 3 seconds, barring network congestion.  And it's math.  Binary math, to be precise.  And that is the only thing that looks like a new horizon, anywhere.

We know where everything is, we know where we are in relation to it and a pleasant sounding recording of a pleasant sounding woman tells when to turn left when we go to the next, geomapped, GPS noted place we're heading to.

It's all been done and there's so *little* left to do that fits the old "arrive, employ the peasants, trash the land, exhaust the resources, sell at a profit" model that has so far been the driving force behind what we call progress, that the fat greedy bastards who have engorged themselves with the pelf it creates, and purchased entire governments therewith, have had to fold up their tents and learn Chinese.  You really want to know what's "cutting edge"?  That accessible "ah ha!" that will give you and your skills and your culture a sense of forward motion?  Mopping up the mess.  Putting that brick back on top of that brick, nailing up that bit of crooked wood back in place, pressure washing, scrubbing, dusting, repairing, decorating, refinishing and painting all - this - stuff that we already have.  The stuff we built already that has been neglected so long as we went looking for that next pristine valley over the hill to repeat our little hat trick in.  Only as you head over that hill, there's somebody driving in the other lane towards you looking for the same thing. The great White Folk Expansionist Next Big Thing Will Save Us™ industry has been shuttered and the people still trying to sell you the code key that will get you in the club are talking cross eyed badger spit.  It's time for repair, reflection and repurposing.  And sure, a tasty cocktail will make the work go easier , but let's cut the "new, bold and exciting" malarkey unless you're selling used cars.  Fixing up the old is the new new.  And it wasn't my idea, either but if you've ever cracked a physics paper, you'd know it was inevitable.  Take off your space helmet and pick up a mop.  You know, cause that's what's hip.
 
2013-03-17 10:36:06 AM

Z-clipped: Nobody but me is reading your posts anyway.


I love you too.  Keep fighting the good fight, Three Star General.
 
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