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(The New York Times)   Colorado legalizes civil unions for same-sex couples. State ski industry expecting downturn due to rain of fire and brimstone (link fixed)   (nytimes.com) divider line 128
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2281 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 5:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 03:53:41 PM
Non paywall link, please?
 
2013-03-13 04:05:40 PM

Nadie_AZ: Non paywall link, please?


Here

Bad form subby! Bad form!
 
2013-03-13 04:07:32 PM

Nadie_AZ: Non paywall link, please?


here's one (Rocky Mountain Collegian)
 
2013-03-13 04:26:23 PM
Civil unions? Really

You guys are farking sick.

Two homosexuals should not have the option for civil union.

Instead it should be marriage
 
2013-03-13 04:48:18 PM
No worries.  The frigid temperature of hell will offset things nicely.
 
2013-03-13 04:48:26 PM
Congrats, Colorado, and what a great way to celebrate the new Pope!
 
2013-03-13 04:50:18 PM
Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!
 
2013-03-13 05:25:01 PM
...and possibly men. Hallelujah!
 
2013-03-13 05:27:57 PM
Ah, so this is why Colorado Springs is issuing forth copious amounts of derp lately.

//Well more than usual
 
2013-03-13 05:31:03 PM
  If God was going to smite Colorado for the gay he would have done it long ago for allowing telemark skiers...

/I keed...I keed
 
2013-03-13 05:31:12 PM
Civil unions? Really? 2002 called and they want their Separate But Equal back.

/it's called MARRIAGE equality, biatches!
 
2013-03-13 05:32:10 PM
fark the NYT.

Go ahead, Colorado!
 
2013-03-13 05:32:13 PM
thesword.com
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO JUST farkING A DUDE?!
 
2013-03-13 05:34:20 PM
Are civil unions allowed only for same sex couples? And are the benefits/responsibilities the same as 'traditional' marriage? If both are 'yes', I could easily see civil unions becoming a popular alternative for those who don't need or want the intermingled state and religious institution but do want a legal association with their partner, regardless of gender.
 
2013-03-13 05:35:50 PM

EngineerAU: Are civil unions allowed only for same sex couples? And are the benefits/responsibilities the same as 'traditional' marriage? If both are 'yes', I could easily see civil unions becoming a popular alternative for those who don't need or want the intermingled state and religious institution but do want a legal association with their partner, regardless of gender.


I can't speak for Colorado, but in California civil unions (domestic partnerships, I believe) are restricted to same-sex couples.
 
2013-03-13 05:36:21 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

Separate but equal!
 
2013-03-13 05:37:21 PM
Stupid sexy Flanders!
 
2013-03-13 05:37:50 PM

Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!


Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.
 
2013-03-13 05:38:25 PM

FARK rebel soldier: [thesword.com image 480x640]
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO JUST farkING A DUDE?!


Looks like another paywall.
 
2013-03-13 05:39:06 PM
Wonderful! I can't even begin to think how many wedding invites I may get now due to my non-hetero friends being unable to marry!  Great news.  Love it!

Now hopefully they won't all be going out and getting married within a few months of each other.  I may have to stock up on wedding cards instead.

/straight Coloradoan, living in sin happily with a wonderful man
//many gay and lesbian friends, tho, and I wish them all the very, very best
///I'm so excited so I'll shush now
 
2013-03-13 05:39:40 PM

cman: Civil unions? Really

You guys are farking sick.

Two homosexuals should not have the option for civil union.

Instead it should be marriage


This.
 
2013-03-13 05:40:39 PM
And yes, it's not official marriage, but bet your bottom dollar it will be treated as such here.  I am excited for my dear friends and couples that now have the option :)
 
2013-03-13 05:42:11 PM
Once you get married it's all downhill.
 
2013-03-13 05:42:40 PM

iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.


Some people view baby steps and half-measures as insufficient when it comes to civil rights.  I am one of those people.  This is just some 'separate-but-equal bullshiat for the sake of religious fundie's delicate sensibilities.
 
2013-03-13 05:43:40 PM
Colorado needs to stop wasting their time on little things like ending the war on drugs and gay marriage and start focusing on important things like ending the sale of large sodas. Farking backward-ass red states I tell ya.
 
2013-03-13 05:44:20 PM

specialkae: And yes, it's not official marriage, but bet your bottom dollar it will be treated as such here.


sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-03-13 05:44:35 PM

Theaetetus: Congrats, Colorado, and what a great way to celebrate the new Pope!


between this headline and the other with the cardinals hiring a new manager it has been a great day on fark.
 
2013-03-13 05:46:02 PM

iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.


Because it's not about the ceremony, it's about the over a thousand legal rights and privileges that come with the civil institution of marriage. Ceremonies? Shiat, those are always up to the church, which is why divorced people can get wed by protestants and thumb their noses at the Catholics. Weddings have nothing to do with legal rights, though.
 
2013-03-13 05:46:31 PM
It's made all the more wonderful by the simple fact that Colorado is home to nutty religious groups like Focus on the Family.
 
2013-03-13 05:46:35 PM

LordOfThePings: specialkae: And yes, it's not official marriage, but bet your bottom dollar it will be treated as such here.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 340x364]


Ok, I lol'ed.  Didn't even think about it.  To you sir, one free Internets!
 
2013-03-13 05:46:43 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-13 05:47:39 PM

Vodka Zombie: It's made all the more wonderful by the simple fact that Colorado is home to nutty religious groups like Focus on the Family.


Yes.  yes it is.  The ironing is quite delicious if you live in this state right now.
 
2013-03-13 05:48:12 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.

Some people view baby steps and half-measures as insufficient when it comes to civil rights.  I am one of those people.  This is just some 'separate-but-equal bullshiat for the sake of religious fundie's delicate sensibilities.


I agree, seperate but equal is screwy.

And anyone who reads the passage in the bible that concerns homosexuality knows that it wasn't really about them being gay; it was more about them wanting to rape some dudes.

So, the message really is; rape is bad.

/ still don't know why they don't just get married and worry about the legality later
 
2013-03-13 05:49:40 PM

antidisestablishmentarianism: ...and possibly men. Hallelujah!


i lol'd
 
2013-03-13 05:49:56 PM
Colorado is a weird state.  It shows a lot of similarities with WA, but every once in a while it shows its conservative bent.
 
2013-03-13 05:52:57 PM
After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.
 
2013-03-13 05:53:07 PM

iheartscotch: KiTTeNs_on_AciD: iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.

Some people view baby steps and half-measures as insufficient when it comes to civil rights.  I am one of those people.  This is just some 'separate-but-equal bullshiat for the sake of religious fundie's delicate sensibilities.

I agree, seperate but equal is screwy.

And anyone who reads the passage in the bible that concerns homosexuality knows that it wasn't really about them being gay; it was more about them wanting to rape some dudes.

So, the message really is; rape is bad.

/ still don't know why they don't just get married and worry about the legality later


Your confusing the wedding with the rights that are granted to spouses.  Having a ceremony doesn't solve any inheritance issues, or immigration issues, or custody issues, tax filing issues, or any of the other issues that legally married straight couples don't have.  I know a few gay couples here in Colorado who did get married, ceremony and all....  but their marriage is not recognized by the state.  Hence why we are worried about the legality NOW.
 
2013-03-13 05:53:31 PM

Theaetetus: iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.

Because it's not about the ceremony, it's about the over a thousand legal rights and privileges that come with the civil institution of marriage. Ceremonies? Shiat, those are always up to the church, which is why divorced people can get wed by protestants and thumb their noses at the Catholics. Weddings have nothing to do with legal rights, though.


Not about the ceremony? If it doesn't matter, why go through with all the hassle of having a ceremony? Legal briefs suck!

/ I know what you mean; equality for everyone and all that jazz. I agree.
 
2013-03-13 05:54:29 PM

Summoner101: Colorado is a weird state.  It shows a lot of similarities with WA, but every once in a while it shows its conservative bent.


And by "it's conservative bent" you mean the infected taint zit that is Colorado Springs of course.
 
2013-03-13 05:54:34 PM

specialkae: Vodka Zombie: It's made all the more wonderful by the simple fact that Colorado is home to nutty religious groups like Focus on the Family.

Yes.  yes it is.  The ironing is quite delicious if you live in this state right now.


Old and busted:  pwned by the filter.  New hotness:  pwned by autocorrect.
 
2013-03-13 05:58:02 PM
So I guess the key in the future will be to get civil unions authorized and then let the courts magically turn it into marriage in a little while?
 
2013-03-13 05:58:23 PM

amindofiron: Summoner101: Colorado is a weird state.  It shows a lot of similarities with WA, but every once in a while it shows its conservative bent.

And by "it's conservative bent" you mean the infected taint zit that is Colorado Springs of course.


Don't forget the pockets of idiocy in Highland's Ranch and the newer parts of Littleton.  You know, the newer neighborhoods with big houses but no lot space.
 
2013-03-13 05:58:54 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: iheartscotch: KiTTeNs_on_AciD: iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.

Some people view baby steps and half-measures as insufficient when it comes to civil rights.  I am one of those people.  This is just some 'separate-but-equal bullshiat for the sake of religious fundie's delicate sensibilities.

I agree, seperate but equal is screwy.

And anyone who reads the passage in the bible that concerns homosexuality knows that it wasn't really about them being gay; it was more about them wanting to rape some dudes.

So, the message really is; rape is bad.

/ still don't know why they don't just get married and worry about the legality later

Your confusing the wedding with the rights that are granted to spouses.  Having a ceremony doesn't solve any inheritance issues, or immigration issues, or custody issues, tax filing issues, or any of the other issues that legally married straight couples don't have.  I know a few gay couples here in Colorado who did get married, ceremony and all....  but their marriage is not recognized by the state.  Hence why we are worried about the legality NOW.


You can accomplish most of the same stuff by giving the other person power of attorney.

I guess I don't know why anyone, now-a-days, wouldn't have a living will. But, sometimes wills mean squat in court.

Custody issues are difficult for everyone.

I agree that changes are needed; but, you might have to wait till all of the boomers are gone before it happens.
 
2013-03-13 06:00:37 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.



www.charlesmarshall.net
 
2013-03-13 06:03:45 PM
Colorado's starting to sound pretty good. Pot, plus gay folks can throw a party.
 
2013-03-13 06:08:56 PM
Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.
 
2013-03-13 06:10:24 PM
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

They'll be known as "butt buddies."
 
2013-03-13 06:13:16 PM

ck1938: Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.


And nothing of value was lost.  Have fun in Utah!
 
2013-03-13 06:16:16 PM
From TFA:  Under the bill, churches are not required to perform civil unions, but Republicans wanted broader protections to include businesses and adoption agencies.

Are those same businesses and agencies able to ignore a male/female married couple who happen to be Atheist? or Muslim?  Or Buddhist? or something equally offensive to their 'religious beliefs'?

/has wondered this since that particular argument became popular
//Mixing races is communism blah blah
 
2013-03-13 06:16:24 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.


That was awesome! Thank you. 9.5/10
 
2013-03-13 06:18:36 PM

EngineerAU: Are civil unions allowed only for same sex couples? And are the benefits/responsibilities the same as 'traditional' marriage? If both are 'yes', I could easily see civil unions becoming a popular alternative for those who don't need or want the intermingled state and religious institution but do want a legal association with their partner, regardless of gender.


Marriage isn't a religious institution.

/separate but equal doesn't work
 
2013-03-13 06:19:28 PM

ck1938: Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado hang out with Mormons because I'm boring and cool people find me insufferable.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.


FTFY
 
2013-03-13 06:21:37 PM

Vodka Zombie: It's made all the more wonderful by the simple fact that Colorado is home to nutty religious groups like Focus on the Family.


Yes, we've got an interesting mix of cray-cray-conservative and uber libby libs. Most folks fit right into the "moderate" demographic along the front range. Usually gets pretty libby in the mountains, then cray cray out east.
 
2013-03-13 06:22:32 PM

iheartscotch: Not about the ceremony? If it doesn't matter, why go through with all the hassle of having a ceremony? Legal briefs suck!


Because people like ceremony.  The last wedding I went to was officiated by the grooms brother.  It was a nice quiet ceremony.  But they were already married in the eyes of the state because they signed the paperwork with a witness and a judge a week prior.  All the state cares about is the paperwork.
 
2013-03-13 06:24:12 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.


So your'e saying christians will leave the state? Good deal.
 
2013-03-13 06:24:55 PM

iheartscotch: You can accomplish most of the same stuff by giving the other person power of attorney.

I guess I don't know why anyone, now-a-days, wouldn't have a living will. But, sometimes wills mean squat in court.

Custody issues are difficult for everyone.

I agree that changes are needed; but, you might have to wait till all of the boomers are gone before it happens.


As someone who gets powers of attorney frequently, I can tell you that no, they don't grant all of the same powers, rights, or privileges of marriage.
Want a simple example? Hospital visitation. There's no contract, power of attorney, or other document you and I could sign that could force a non-party hospital to let me into your ER room.
How about another? Military cemetery burial rights for spouses. If I was a veteran, there would be no contract you and I could sign that would force the government to bury you with me.
Third? Spousal immunity against being forced to testify. Again, no private contract would grant that constitutional right.
 
2013-03-13 06:25:04 PM

FatalDischarge: milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.

So your'e saying christians will leave the state? Good deal.


Colorado Springs would become a ghost town.
 
2013-03-13 06:25:45 PM
You get married at city hall.

You celebrate at a church.
 
2013-03-13 06:27:18 PM

NkThrasher: FatalDischarge: milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.

So your'e saying christians will leave the state? Good deal.

Colorado Springs would become a ghost town.


Ah yes, the city of self-reliant conservatives who rely on the government (ie: Military) to power it's economy.

You can't argue with irony like that.
 
2013-03-13 06:30:17 PM

Theaetetus: iheartscotch: You can accomplish most of the same stuff by giving the other person power of attorney.

I guess I don't know why anyone, now-a-days, wouldn't have a living will. But, sometimes wills mean squat in court.

Custody issues are difficult for everyone.

I agree that changes are needed; but, you might have to wait till all of the boomers are gone before it happens.

As someone who gets powers of attorney frequently, I can tell you that no, they don't grant all of the same powers, rights, or privileges of marriage.
Want a simple example? Hospital visitation. There's no contract, power of attorney, or other document you and I could sign that could force a non-party hospital to let me into your ER room.
How about another? Military cemetery burial rights for spouses. If I was a veteran, there would be no contract you and I could sign that would force the government to bury you with me.
Third? Spousal immunity against being forced to testify. Again, no private contract would grant that constitutional right.


Not to mention there's no way to force the feds to give spousal survivor benefits. Sally Ride, anyone?
 
2013-03-13 06:37:38 PM
Colorado was cooler when they didn't charge $100 for season tickets while simultaneously pissing off season pass holders.

/remember buddy passes?
 
2013-03-13 06:39:55 PM

FARK rebel soldier: [thesword.com image 480x640]
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO JUST farkING A DUDE?!


Whatever happened to taking your flogging like a man?  Farking pussy with his leather breast plate.

Regarding the news...yes it isn't full on legalization of gay marriage but we got weed too so it is like, "Two steps forward, and one more forward".  We are getting there folks.  Can't help that we have all of the Evangelicals in Co Springs.  I'm just happy that my folks (Former Battalion Commander now working for MDA and his/my lovely Army House Mom) voted to legalize ze weed.

It was very cute when my mom called me after voting, all hush-hush, and told me that the two of them voted to legalize ze herb.  Of course I was sworn to secrecy.  The internet is secret, right?  They aren't lib by any stretch of the term.  At least, they don't realize they are.  Slowly my plans are coming to fruition!

/my headline was better a few days ago
//yes I'm bitter
///yes I take my flogging like a man
//safe word?
/slashies
 
2013-03-13 06:42:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: Ah yes, the city of self-reliant conservatives who rely on the government (ie: Military) to power it's economy.

You can't argue with irony like that.


Just remember, citizen, if you want a street lamp lit in your area of Colorado Springs, you can volunteer to pay for it.  The city sure cant.

/Seriously
//http://www.springsgov.com/news.aspx?newsid=295
 
2013-03-13 06:42:16 PM
Gradually, the tides are turning to favor equality.

What's the easiest way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And by jove, these cocksuckers are eating the f*ck out of this big, homophobic elephant. Good on you, gays, stay fabulous!
 
2013-03-13 06:45:00 PM
Oh, and they are leaning (meaning He is leaning, my folks vote in blocks) to legalizing the gay marriage.  It is quite an amazing thing to grow up with someone that treated his troops better than his children and watch him slowly melt.  Not "melt" in a bad way.  I guess, open his eyes would be a better choice of words.

To see a man that has had so many views ingrained in himself through bigoted family and military career crumble.  Send the flames but it really does bring a tear to my eye to hear my father shoot down some of our Born Again family members as he tells them that he is finally seeing what he fought all those years for.

/Cheers Dad.  I love you.
 
2013-03-13 06:46:03 PM

NkThrasher: Mrtraveler01: Ah yes, the city of self-reliant conservatives who rely on the government (ie: Military) to power it's economy.

You can't argue with irony like that.

Just remember, citizen, if you want a street lamp lit in your area of Colorado Springs, you can volunteer to pay for it.  The city sure cant.

/Seriously
//http://www.springsgov.com/news.aspx?newsid=295


I like how the headline has multiple meanings:

Over 30 percent of City's streetlights to go dark to help keep City in black.

"It's just like what many of us are doing at home.When our take-home paychecks are reduced we look for ways to cut expenses.We have more than 24,000 streetlights within the City limits and the energy cost alone to keep all those lights on is about $3.2 million each year.By shutting off between 8,000 and 10,000 of the most inefficient lights we expect to save taxpayers slightly over $1.2 million each year.In these lean times we are all cutting back where we can," explained Dave Krauth, City Traffic Engineer.

This is why I don't take those "treat the government budget like a household budget" tards seriously.

This would be the same as saying "I'm not going to put new batteries in the smoke detector because I can save money by not buying batteries".

There's a cost to not doing something.
 
2013-03-13 06:46:18 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: iheartscotch: Theaetetus: Oh, and of course, this is a "civil union" bill that grants "gay couples rights similar to marriage," and those have been repeatedly held to be clear violations of the 14th amendment in the federal courts, so congratulations on legalizing gay marriage, in another year or so!

Hey now! Baby steps. Life isn't about the destination; it's about the journey.

/ I've always thought that it was screwy that LGTwhatevers didn't just have the ceremony in a friendly church and thumb their noses at the anti-people.

Some people view baby steps and half-measures as insufficient when it comes to civil rights.  I am one of those people.  This is just some 'separate-but-equal bullshiat for the sake of religious fundie's delicate sensibilities.


However, if the choice was only between keeping things the way they were and civil unions (as opposed to civil unions vs. marriage), are you saying you wouldn't choose civil unions?  Because those were the options. Nothing or civil unions. Steps in the right direction are better than no movement at all.
 
2013-03-13 06:53:17 PM

gingerjet: Marriage isn't a religious institution.


Yes it is. You can argue that it isn't exclusive a religious institution or that it historically arose for non-religious purposes but is absolutely positively is a religious institution in addition to being a legal one. To claim otherwise is to wander into the world of flat earthers and believers in the reptile people.
 
2013-03-13 06:55:45 PM

NkThrasher: Colorado Springs would become a ghost town.


Then maybe the Air Force could go back to being a division of the military instead of an outpost of the fundie wacko church.
 
2013-03-13 06:56:04 PM
No, it's not enough. Separate is NOT equal.

But for a state that has a constitutional ban on the use of the word "marriage"...it's a step forward and one more on a list of states for SCOTUS to have to look at in two weeks. (IANAL, but the s-b-e states might have a greater impact than those who have full equality?)

If only MN could move more quickly, I'd love so see us on that map as well.
 
2013-03-13 07:00:11 PM

EngineerAU: Yes it is. You can argue that it isn't exclusive a religious institution or that it historically arose for non-religious purposes but is absolutely positively is a religious institution in addition to being a legal one. To claim otherwise is to wander into the world of flat earthers and believers in the reptile people.


Marriage as it is discussed in terms of laws is not a religious institution, it's a legal status granting two consenting adult citizens special rights and privileges in regards to each other.  This unfortunately frequently requires that the two consenting adult citizens be mismatched in recognized legal gender.

Marriage as it is discussed in terms of simply the word is as you described.  But when in the context of a discussion of law it is not a religious institution.
 
2013-03-13 07:00:44 PM

EngineerAU: gingerjet: Marriage isn't a religious institution.

Yes it is. You can argue that it isn't exclusive a religious institution or that it historically arose for non-religious purposes but is absolutely positively is a religious institution in addition to being a legal one. To claim otherwise is to wander into the world of flat earthers and believers in the reptile people.


I think that people who make this argument intend to say that marriage didn't  start as a religious institution. That is, marriage, in some form, has existed longer than organized religion. Many of these same people then, in turn, believe that marriage  shouldn't be a religious institution. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
2013-03-13 07:06:03 PM
Never been to Colorado Springs, but I have an older brother living in Denver, and when I last visited him I asked if he's been there. His response: "Yeah. Once. Trust me, you'd rather use Madeleine Albright's tits to brush your teeth than check it out for yourself." This was over a year ago and I'm still trying to figure out what in the goddamn hell that means.

Anyways, good on ya, CO, but this is just the first step.
 
2013-03-13 07:06:54 PM
A (gay) friend-of-a-friend was discussing civil unions at their workplace, and their coworker volunteered that "it's a shame that you're white, or you'd be able to get one too."

Apparently the "Civil" part of the "Civil Rights Movement" is a confusing idea.
 
2013-03-13 07:08:35 PM

iheartscotch: Your confusing the wedding with the rights that are granted to spouses. Having a ceremony doesn't solve any inheritance issues, or immigration issues, or custody issues, tax filing issues, or any of the other issues that legally married straight couples don't have. I know a few gay couples here in Colorado who did get married, ceremony and all.... but their marriage is not recognized by the state. Hence why we are worried about the legality NOW.

You can accomplish most of the same stuff by giving the other person power of attorney.


No, a POA cannot do most of the stuff a marriage license can.  A POA might, may, possibly - if everyone agrees and no one takes you to court, work for some interactions.  But there's no government agency in the country that will accept one in lieu of an actual marriage.
 
2013-03-13 07:13:15 PM

EngineerAU: gingerjet: Marriage isn't a religious institution.

Yes it is. You can argue that it isn't exclusive a religious institution or that it historically arose for non-religious purposes but is absolutely positively is a religious institution in addition to being a legal one. To claim otherwise is to wander into the world of flat earthers and believers in the reptile people.



Can you get married without going to the courthouse and getting a license?  NO.
Can you get married by Sheriff Andy and never have religion involved at all?  YES.
Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage), including being married by Elvis, aliens, or a minister who got ordained over the internet in between kitten-killing episodes?  YES.

Marriage in the United States is not a religious instituion.  It is not the private reserve of Christians, and they do not get to define it.
 
2013-03-13 07:14:59 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Civil unions? Really? 2002 called and they want their Separate But Equal back.

/it's called MARRIAGE equality, biatches!


Colorado's got a big Libertarian contingent. I think that it's a guarantee that a lot of the people who wanted this also believe that the government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all, so they aren't trying to be inconsistent. They've just bought into an obsolete idea.

But you are entirely correct, and this is why civil unions always were one of those bad ideas that sound good at first. In practice, we'll never get the government out of certifying marriages, therefore any Civil Union option becomes a de facto second class marriage. And, of course, this plays hash for getting your "union" recognized in other states or by the Federal Government.

If I'm married, I'm married and my marriage... whether or not I could have had it performed in your state... is still legal. But if I have a "civil union" and I move to some other state, I've got bupkis.

On the plus side, though, bear in mind that this was the state that passed the infamous Amendment 2, which enshrined the ability to discriminate against gays in the state's constitution. To go from that to the point where they realize that they have to give gays  some way to officially sanction their unions represents a huge (albeit insufficient) amount of progress. Let's consider this a partial victory.
 
2013-03-13 07:15:36 PM
I'd like to thank the icons of American culture who lead the charge in making this change possible:

media.tumblr.com

Thank you, Stewie.

25.media.tumblr.com

Thank you, Roger.
 
2013-03-13 07:19:49 PM

ck1938: Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.


You sound boring and you probably ski like a pussy.
 
2013-03-13 07:21:18 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.


"Marihuana".

Okay, anyone who can't see that you're trolling after a tell like that deserve what they get.

10/10
 
2013-03-13 07:22:17 PM
Good for them. Still trying to invent gay marriage.
 
2013-03-13 07:23:43 PM

Mike Chewbacca: /it's called MARRIAGE equality, biatches!


We have an amendment to our state constitution defining marriage as being between one man and one woman.  Until the SCOTUS overrides that--unlikely--civil unions are all that is possible in Colorado in this regard.
 
2013-03-13 07:24:21 PM
This is what happens when you legalize weed.
 
2013-03-13 07:25:02 PM
Separate "rights" are kind of like having a second draw bridge.  It might get you across the moat like the bridge everybody else gets to use, but if it doesn't get you to the entrance of the castle, then it's pretty much useless.

Doesn't really matter for me one way or the other, even if marriage equality was granted to every citizen at both the state and federal level, it's really too late for a huge swath of the population such as myself.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see it for the sake of the young folks who still have time to benefit from finally having access to their rights.
 
2013-03-13 07:27:45 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.


I hope that at least part of what you say comes true--if the Christian organizations based in Colorado Springs were to abandon the state, that would be a tremendous boon.  As it is, they are a burden on the area's tax structure--their employees tend towards large families, overloading the schools and the limited water supplies, yet the organizations themselves pay no taxes.
 
2013-03-13 07:29:08 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures. Combine this the epidemic of hard drug abuse in the state (marihauna is a scheduled I drug mind you) and we have a new Welfare Capitol in the works.

"Marihuana".

Okay, anyone who can't see that you're trolling after a tell like that deserve what they get.

10/10


Not even that, he misspelled it too. "Marihauna". Sounds like a Hawaiian island.
 
2013-03-13 07:32:29 PM

Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)


Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.
 
2013-03-13 07:38:49 PM

pciszek: Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)

Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.



Mormon's count as fundamentalist Christians.  And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?  How many times have you heard "This is a Jewish nation, and Jehovah clearly said no to homosexuality"?  How many places has Sharia actually been installed as law?  They many not want to perform the ceromonies they they don't seem to give a shiat if anyone else does.
 
2013-03-13 07:45:23 PM

Karac: pciszek: Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)

Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.


Mormon's count as fundamentalist Christians.  And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?  How many times have you heard "This is a Jewish nation, and Jehovah clearly said no to homosexuality"?  How many places has Sharia actually been installed as law?  They many not want to perform the ceromonies they they don't seem to give a shiat if anyone else does.


If a gay person can get hung in some Middle Eastern countries simply for their orientation....I think we can extrapolate their positions, even if publicly undefined currently, on gay marriage.
 
2013-03-13 07:46:25 PM

Theaetetus: Congrats, Colorado, and what a great way to celebrate the new Pope!


Just tell him to lighten up Francis!
 
2013-03-13 07:49:25 PM

EngineerAU: gingerjet: Marriage isn't a religious institution.

Yes it is. You can argue that it isn't exclusive a religious institution or that it historically arose for non-religious purposes but is absolutely positively is a religious institution in addition to being a legal one. To claim otherwise is to wander into the world of flat earthers and believers in the reptile people.


So you're saying the reptile people don't exist?
 
2013-03-13 07:51:10 PM

Cajnik: Colorado was cooler when they didn't charge $100 for season single day lift-tickets ($160 at Vail) while simultaneously pissing off season pass holders.

/remember buddy passes?


Fixed.

And yes, back in the day, buddy passes meant something.

And we're still pretty farking cool.
 
2013-03-13 07:51:19 PM
great now they get all the tax benefits!
 
2013-03-13 07:55:20 PM

Killer Cars: Karac: pciszek: Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)

Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.


Mormon's count as fundamentalist Christians.  And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?  How many times have you heard "This is a Jewish nation, and Jehovah clearly said no to homosexuality"?  How many places has Sharia actually been installed as law?  They many not want to perform the ceromonies they they don't seem to give a shiat if anyone else does.

If a gay person can get hung in some Middle Eastern countries simply for their orientation....I think we can extrapolate their positions, even if publicly undefined currently, on gay marriage.


I didn't realize Middle Easterners got to vote in America.
 
2013-03-13 07:57:14 PM

pciszek: Mike Chewbacca: /it's called MARRIAGE equality, biatches!

We have an amendment to our state constitution defining marriage as being between one man and one woman.  Until the SCOTUS overrides that--unlikely--civil unions are all that is possible in Colorado in this regard.



It can also be changed by the same method that was used to add it to the constitution in the first place, via the amendment process.  Also, via the legislature, but we know that ain't happening.
 
2013-03-13 07:57:26 PM

Karac: And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?


I think the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq count as "Muslim political groups" and they have come out against gay people even existing, let alone getting married.
 
2013-03-13 07:58:26 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Killer Cars: Karac: pciszek: Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)

Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.


Mormon's count as fundamentalist Christians.  And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?  How many times have you heard "This is a Jewish nation, and Jehovah clearly said no to homosexuality"?  How many places has Sharia actually been installed as law?  They many not want to perform the ceromonies they they don't seem to give a shiat if anyone else does.

If a gay person can get hung in some Middle Eastern countries simply for their orientation....I think we can extrapolate their positions, even if publicly undefined currently, on gay marriage.

I didn't realize Middle Easterners got to vote in America.


I didn't realize civil rights for American citizens was contigent upon the laws of countries a third of the way around the world.
Well, except for Vatican City.
 
2013-03-13 08:09:25 PM
Meanwhile, in Colorado Springs...

i28.photobucket.com


Shame it's not called "marriage" just yet, but as someone who used to live there and remembers a nasty and mean-spirited bill called "Amendment 2", this is a big step forward. Suck it, James Dobson!  ;)
 
2013-03-13 08:16:18 PM

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: ck1938: Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.

And nothing of value was lost.  Have fun in Utah!


Nah, I'm pro pot legalization and even I can't stand stoners. They're generally annoying people who aren't as interesting as the pot makes them think they are.

I know some interesting people who occasionally smoke, sure. But there are people who practically define their life about it, and I don't particularly want to spend much time around them. I don't think that what they do should be illegal, but for god's sake, get a life beyond toking.
 
2013-03-13 08:17:51 PM

NkThrasher: From TFA:  Under the bill, churches are not required to perform civil unions, but Republicans wanted broader protections to include businesses and adoption agencies.

Are those same businesses and agencies able to ignore a male/female married couple who happen to be Atheist? or Muslim?  Or Buddhist? or something equally offensive to their 'religious beliefs'?

/has wondered this since that particular argument became popular
//Mixing races is communism blah blah


Yeah. As an atheist, I'm somewhat disquieted by the fact that no argument for traditional marriage against gay marriage (at least that I've heard) doesn't apply just as well to either heathens (like me) or sterile people (might also be me, dunno.)
 
2013-03-13 08:21:21 PM

Karac: Mike Chewbacca: Killer Cars: Karac: pciszek: Karac: Can you get married in a church belonging to any of five dozen religions OTHER than Christianity (which seems to be the only one against gay marriage)

Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Mormonism are pretty dead set against gay marriage, to name three.


Mormon's count as fundamentalist Christians.  And how many Muslim or Jewish political groups or politicians have you seen come out against gay marraige?  How many times have you heard "This is a Jewish nation, and Jehovah clearly said no to homosexuality"?  How many places has Sharia actually been installed as law?  They many not want to perform the ceromonies they they don't seem to give a shiat if anyone else does.

If a gay person can get hung in some Middle Eastern countries simply for their orientation....I think we can extrapolate their positions, even if publicly undefined currently, on gay marriage.

I didn't realize Middle Easterners got to vote in America.

I didn't realize civil rights for American citizens was contigent upon the laws of countries a third of the way around the world.
Well, except for Vatican City.


Exactly.
 
2013-03-13 08:29:23 PM

cman: Civil unions? Really

You guys are farking sick.

Two homosexuals should not have the option for civil union.

Instead it should be marriage


Colorado has a state constitutional ban on marriage... is a relic of when the state was conservative instead of whogivesafark. We're working on it.
 
2013-03-13 08:31:45 PM

ck1938: Dear Homosexuals,

Despite the conclusions my choice to ski in Utah rather than Colorado from now on may lead you to I can assure you it is not true.  I am not trying to avoid you.  Rather I choose to avoid the legions of unemployed and giggling stoners who make up an increasingly large percentage of the population of Colorado.  Enjoy your stay in the Miles High state.

Sincerely,

John F.


You have fun spending twice as much so you can ski somewhere where they make everyone tuck in their shirt.
I support your right to not patronize my awesome state, we're still dealing with a minor infestation of Texans anyways.
 
2013-03-13 08:31:45 PM
If the only difference is the title on the top of the form, is it really "separate"?

If there are other substantive differences, that's bullshiat.  But if not, comparing this to Jim Crow demeans us all.
 
2013-03-13 08:35:16 PM

Mog32Kupo: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 462x300]

Separate but equal!


Except that, in your metaphor, black people wouldn't be allowed to drink water at all, or go buy water in another state and legally bring it back with them.  Even though their tax dollars go to help pay for the plumbing, treatment, etc.
 
2013-03-13 08:47:34 PM

Summoner101: Colorado is a weird state.  It shows a lot of similarities with WA, but every once in a while it shows its conservative bent.


IMO, the mountains tend to create strong barriers between communities, which leads to a lot of, "we're going to do what we want here, and we don't want anybody else telling us what to do!"  That separation also leads to a "hardening" of local cultures, with end results like Boulder and Colorado Springs being perhaps the two most culturally opposite cities in America.

The vestiges of conservatism are being wiped out pretty quickly over the past couple of decades with the massive influx of people from the Pacific Coast.  But it should continue to be pretty bi-polar for the time being.
 
2013-03-13 08:57:17 PM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: If the only difference is the title on the top of the form, is it really "separate"?

If there are other substantive differences, that's bullshiat.  But if not, comparing this to Jim Crow demeans us all.


Seeing as how the Federal government doesn't recognize civil unions, it is just as bad as Jim Crow.
 
2013-03-13 09:05:00 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Seeing as how the Federal government doesn't recognize civil unions, it is just as bad as Jim Crow.


The Federal government doesn't recognize marriages between people of the same sex either.
 
2013-03-13 09:06:21 PM

pciszek: Mike Chewbacca: Seeing as how the Federal government doesn't recognize civil unions, it is just as bad as Jim Crow.

The Federal government doesn't recognize marriages between people of the same sex either.


And 20 of the 30 state constitutional amendments also ban civil unions.
 
2013-03-13 09:08:56 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Cajnik: Colorado was cooler when they didn't charge $100 for season single day lift-tickets ($160 at Vail) while simultaneously pissing off season pass holders.

/remember buddy passes?

Fixed.

And yes, back in the day, buddy passes meant something.

And we're still pretty farking cool.


Do you mean friends and family day tickets for employees of the ski area?  Yeah, I remember those.  Like half day passes or some stuff you could hand out.  Too many employees abused the system and it's been brought to a lower level.
 
2013-03-13 09:14:37 PM
I'm sort of okay with this, but I personally think that governing bodies in a secular nation should not be in the business of marriage at all, just civil unions, let the churches handle the "special" terminology like "marriage".  Civil unions: Legally recognized and open to all couples regardless of gender, sex, orientation, religion. MArriage: a ceremony performed by a religious organization or some other non-governmental body. with this, no one could complain.
 
2013-03-13 09:24:32 PM

pciszek: Mike Chewbacca: /it's called MARRIAGE equality, biatches!

We have an amendment to our state constitution defining marriage as being between one man and one woman.  Until the SCOTUS overrides that--unlikely--civil unions are all that is possible in Colorado in this regard.


...until CO passes another amendment. Is it a 1/2 or 2/3 popular vote state for amendments? The former could be practical by 2014.
 
2013-03-13 09:34:39 PM
DIAF Subby!

/WTF Mods? A Paywall?
 
2013-03-13 09:46:36 PM

PrYgMMa: I'm sort of okay with this, but I personally think that governing bodies in a secular nation should not be in the business of marriage at all, just civil unions, let the churches handle the "special" terminology like "marriage".  Civil unions: Legally recognized and open to all couples regardless of gender, sex, orientation, religion. MArriage: a ceremony performed by a religious organization or some other non-governmental body. with this, no one could complain.


Colorado Mountain Passes (season passes good at 5 or 6 mountains) come with the benefit of a limited number of discounted lift tickets for the pass holders's friends. The discount used to be a lot more substantial. Now it's 20% off full price.
 
2013-03-13 09:46:53 PM
Welcome to the 20th century, Colorado!
 
2013-03-13 09:47:09 PM
The tops contain potassium benzoate.
 
2013-03-13 09:51:27 PM
Considering this is the same state that passed Amendment 2, we've come a very long way.  Not long enough, but a fur piece up the road.
 
2013-03-13 09:52:43 PM

PrYgMMa: I'm sort of okay with this, but I personally think that governing bodies in a secular nation should not be in the business of marriage at all, just civil unions, let the churches handle the "special" terminology like "marriage".  Civil unions: Legally recognized and open to all couples regardless of gender, sex, orientation, religion. MArriage: a ceremony performed by a religious organization or some other non-governmental body. with this, no one could complain.


Except for the fact that the same people moaning and complain about same-sex marriages are also moaning and complaining about same-sex civil unions...you'd actually have a point.

Tired debunked talking point is tired.
 
2013-03-13 09:56:43 PM

EngineerAU: Are civil unions allowed only for same sex couples? And are the benefits/responsibilities the same as 'traditional' marriage? If both are 'yes', I could easily see civil unions becoming a popular alternative for those who don't need or want the intermingled state and religious institution but do want a legal association with their partner, regardless of gender.


My personal view is that all current marriages and any new ones should be civil unions and gender matters not one bit to obtain one. Then the fundies can piss off with their love of the word and they can still engage in their quaint ceremonies if they elect to.
 
2013-03-13 10:07:39 PM

PrYgMMa: I'm sort of okay with this, but I personally think that governing bodies in a secular nation should not be in the business of marriage at all, just civil unions, let the churches handle the "special" terminology like "marriage".  Civil unions: Legally recognized and open to all couples regardless of gender, sex, orientation, religion. MArriage: a ceremony performed by a religious organization or some other non-governmental body. with this, no one could complain.


I'll repeat it again.  20 of the 30 state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage also ban civil unions.
 
2013-03-13 10:55:08 PM
State ski industry expecting downturn due to rain of fire and brimstone

Skiing in WA has been just fine this year, in spite of our gay marriage law. Then again, folks around here are used to skiing in the rain.
 
2013-03-13 11:28:44 PM

Nuclear Pancake: DIAF Subby!

/WTF Mods? A Paywall?


You get 15 free articles a month, and there are easy ways around it. Learn to deal.
 
2013-03-14 12:03:53 AM

Mrtraveler01: PrYgMMa: I'm sort of okay with this, but I personally think that governing bodies in a secular nation should not be in the business of marriage at all, just civil unions, let the churches handle the "special" terminology like "marriage".  Civil unions: Legally recognized and open to all couples regardless of gender, sex, orientation, religion. MArriage: a ceremony performed by a religious organization or some other non-governmental body. with this, no one could complain.

Except for the fact that the same people moaning and complain about same-sex marriages are also moaning and complaining about same-sex civil unions...you'd actually have a point.

Tired debunked talking point is tired.


Not all people moan about gays having civil unions. There are conservatives that support this exact policy of keeping marriage to the religions, to keep gays from getting real-married because they think churches won't marry them. I love pointing out that there are religions that are perfectly happy to marry gays. Also, I'm an atheist and I think letting religion have marriage is stupid, even for secular reasons. No religion has dominion over marriage or who can get married, they can only have teachings on such things for their followers.
 
2013-03-14 12:15:37 AM
WTF?!?! Don't B sending viewers to a pay or sign-up site.  Should be Common Knowledge.
 
2013-03-14 01:15:42 AM

cptjeff: Nuclear Pancake: DIAF Subby!

/WTF Mods? A Paywall?

You get 15 free articles a month, and there are easy ways around it. Learn to deal.


Subby here, sorry about the paywall mess, all I can say is that it was free and clear when I submitted the headline.  Hell, I'm over my 15 free articles a month and it still let me view the whole thing without any prompts or tricks earlier this afternoon.
/Should have linked to the Guardian article
//Currently dying in a fire
///Damn, that was good chili
 
2013-03-14 11:45:16 AM
Good first step.  My state started with civil unions for gays too and after a couple years with neither fire nor brimstone raining down from heaven we passed gay marriage.  The year after that, all previously created civil unions were simply reclassified as marriages so that any remaining distinction between the two was eliminated.

Politics is the art of slow compromise and persuasion.  If you always try to swing for the fences, you'll probably end up striking out most of the time.  Better to go the easier route of just getting your team on base and advancing them one batter at a time.  It's slower and there's still no guarantee of success but more runs are scored that way than all or nothing shots.
 
2013-03-14 01:14:18 PM

milsorgen: After the glitz and glamour of a thousand courthouse weddings and the temporary boost it will provide to economies expect the moral decay to make itself more and more apparent as economic activity (a domain of the industrious and morally righteous) declines as more and more Christians head for greener pastures.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-14 06:47:40 PM

chatikh: Not all people moan about gays having civil unions.


Just the 20 states who included civil union bans in their gay marriage bans.
 
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