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(Yahoo)   Ancient Egyptian text reveals that before Jesus Christ became an omnipotent omniscient immortal, he was a shape shifter. Apparently some people have a problem with this   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 146
    More: Strange, Egyptian Christian, jesus, Coptic, Pilates, copy pasting, last supper, Maundy Thursday, St. Michael  
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13458 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 11:28:27 AM
The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?
 
2013-03-13 11:44:30 AM

CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?


No, of course not. Thosetexts are absolutely true and the Word of God.
 
2013-03-13 11:50:18 AM
I can't wait until Mel Gibson makes a movie about it.
 
2013-03-13 11:51:00 AM
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-03-13 11:51:10 AM

CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?


dammit.

Was going with: So like the rest of the Biblical texts?  But yours is fine...

/kicks foot in the dirt and walks away
 
2013-03-13 11:52:03 AM
possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.
 
2013-03-13 11:53:42 AM
Done in one.
 
2013-03-13 11:54:20 AM

Weaver95: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand


That f*cking Loki.
 
2013-03-13 11:54:39 AM
Stargate was right!
 
2013-03-13 11:56:26 AM
Dread Pirate Jesus.
 
2013-03-13 11:57:18 AM
Howard Stern for Pope.
 
2013-03-13 11:57:31 AM
Ancient egypt ended several hundred years BC

So this is very much newsworthy.
 
2013-03-13 11:58:12 AM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


And the second option explains why they killed someone when they didn't give enough money.
 
2013-03-13 11:59:17 AM
Makes as much sense as the rest of it.
 
2013-03-13 11:59:59 AM
The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, saidRoelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands, who published the translation in the book "Pseudo-Cyril of Jerusalem on the Life and the"(Brill, 2013).

Well, no...of course not. You're not going to just automatically believe a bunch of wildly implausible ancient text is TRUE. That would be crazy...

i76.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-13 12:00:05 PM
At the Nicean Council the Coptics and Aryans were basically shouted down by the other sects (probably to curry favor with Rome) and this is when the story of Jesus took on supernatural characteristics. Until then then the majority of The Jesus Movement considered Jesus a holy man, but a man nonetheless.
 
2013-03-13 12:00:07 PM
The author should have changed the character names and made it a lot sexier and sold hundreds of thousands of copies to lonely, horny housewives wishing for the pleasures of a shapeshifting lover.
 
2013-03-13 12:00:28 PM
There we tons of different different sins on Jesus before all the different factions murdered the shiat out of each other. That aint new.
A novel branch is interesting, but why would people get bent out of shape.
 
2013-03-13 12:01:08 PM
So Sarah Silverman is a prophet?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-13 12:01:56 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


I like option 2. Perhaps not quite as sinister, some people just want to be the thing people believe in. They don't always care about money, there's quite a sense of power that goes with being that thing. Doesn't mean that not a one of them was that sinister.
 
2013-03-13 12:01:59 PM

Molavian: Weaver95: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand

That f*cking Loki.


he should stick to being dumped on by snake venom if he knows what's good for him.
 
2013-03-13 12:01:59 PM
"Pilate, then, looked at Jesus and, behold, he became incorporeal: He did not see him for a long time ..." the text read.

Expanded Universe Jesus has way cooler powers than canon Jesus.
 
2013-03-13 12:02:14 PM
That's impossible. There were no cell phones back then.
 
2013-03-13 12:03:17 PM
Subby...since Jesus was part of the Holy Trinity before he was born in Bethlehem, he was already an "an omnipotent omniscient immortal" and shape shifting would have defeated the purpose of him coming here to live as a man among men.

/came for the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine reference, leave satisfied
 
2013-03-13 12:03:29 PM
www.empireonline.com
         "Peace be with you."
 
2013-03-13 12:03:32 PM
Dies and comes back: Check
Doesn't always look the same: Check
Preaches love and tolerance: Check
Losses his shiat when people are assholes: Check
Always hanging out with companions: Check
Little Blue Box: ????
 
2013-03-13 12:04:01 PM

CheetahOlivetti: Dread Pirate Jesus.


Now, that's an awesome Fark handle.
 
2013-03-13 12:04:31 PM
That makes sense. After all, these days he regularly makes the rounds on the ebay circuit disguised as toast.
 
2013-03-13 12:05:54 PM
"Pilate and his wife both have visions that night that show an eagle (representing Jesus) being killed."

I knew Jesus was a'merican!  fark yeah!
 
2013-03-13 12:07:27 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.


That would explain the Jesus sightings after he was crucified.
 
2013-03-13 12:08:08 PM
FTFA:  A newly deciphered Egyptian text, dating back almost 1,200 years...

The Gospels in the New Testament were written closer to 1,900, to 2,000 years ago - still within the lifetimes of some of the people mentioned in them. This manuscript would have been written around 700-900 AD, long after the events took place and centuries after the deaths anybody who was around then and could dispute its veracity.

in short, fanfic until proven otherwise.
 
2013-03-13 12:08:17 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?
 
2013-03-13 12:08:40 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: The author should have changed the character names and made it a lot sexier and sold hundreds of thousands of copies to lonely, horny housewives wishing for the pleasures of a shapeshifting lover.


In the unlikely event that I should ever attempt to earn a living as a professional writer, would you be interested in becoming my editor? I (sometimes) like the way you think.
 
2013-03-13 12:08:55 PM
The real Jesus was a black man.
I mean African-American!

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-03-13 12:09:10 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona...



Possibility two seems like the most plausible jesus story i've heard...
 
2013-03-13 12:09:14 PM

PreMortem: Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.

That would explain the Jesus sightings after he was crucified.


my theory fits a lot of the facts in evidence.
 
2013-03-13 12:09:50 PM
Came in to see how witty and edgy the comments would be...

...hmm.. same crap as usual... oh well...
 
2013-03-13 12:10:00 PM
Very interesting.

Shows how divisive the early Christians really were only a few years into their founding.
 
2013-03-13 12:10:19 PM

spentmiles: "Pilate and his wife both have visions that night that show an eagle (representing Jesus) being killed."

I knew Jesus was a'merican!  fark yeah!


The shape-shifter part actually answers another long-standing riddle...namely, how a blue-eyed, flaxen haired, square-jawed, red blooded American white man was able to blend in with a bunch of dirty Arabian looking people. He just shape-shifted to look like one of them so he could go undercover.
 
2013-03-13 12:11:25 PM

redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?


let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.
 
2013-03-13 12:12:05 PM
... and He rode a Unicorn that shiat rainbows and carried a flux capacitor in a golden holster
 
2013-03-13 12:13:28 PM

CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?



www.shipsrus.gotchemistry.com

We're done here...
 
2013-03-13 12:14:38 PM
i49.tinypic.com


"Let's go kill Jesus."

/best Christmas episode ever
 
2013-03-13 12:15:29 PM

Theaetetus: CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?

No, of course not. Thosetexts are absolutely true and the Word of God.


New text is discovered. Does it contradict the current version of biblical teachings?

Yes - It's heretic, and has no value other than a historical curiousity.
No - This confirms that the bible is true! Glory, glory hallelujah!
 
2013-03-13 12:15:49 PM
FTA: "Then the Jews said to Judas: How shall we arrest him [Jesus], for he does not have a single shape but his appearance changes. Sometimes he is ruddy, sometimes he is white, sometimes he is red, sometimes he is wheat coloured, sometimes he is pallid like ascetics, sometimes he is a youth, sometimes an old man ..."

Could he go plaid?

plaidurday.com
 
2013-03-13 12:15:57 PM
 
2013-03-13 12:15:58 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


possibility three: jesus was a mexican ninjan. "now joo see me, now joo don't"
 
2013-03-13 12:16:28 PM
you know, being raised Roman Catholic I was raised more on the jist of the Bible rather than its actual text, but this passage leapt screaming out at me when I read it the other day:

Mark 6:
Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.


Having read that I find it utterly remarkable tht in the 2,000 year history of Christian tradtion, that nobody seems to have ever written a gospel that suggested that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of Jesus, was one and the same as Judas, Jesus' kid brother.  I mean the dynamic of that relationship would make such a compelling psychological drama, it's strange no sect or cult ever siezed on it.  and Jesus had SISTERS? Can you imagine what dating one of them must have been like?

(yeah I know the RC church's official line is that he was an only child and his Momma somehow remained a virgin even after having it, but that's so pants-on-head stupid that like Most Catholics I just point and laugh when someone brings that up)
 
2013-03-13 12:17:20 PM

Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.


John Waters
 
2013-03-13 12:20:39 PM

Magorn: Having read that I find it utterly remarkable tht in the 2,000 year history of Christian tradtion, that nobody seems to have ever written a gospel that suggested that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of Jesus, was one and the same as Judas, Jesus' kid brother.


I'm not certain, but I don't think it's the same Judas, that's why they differentiate him by calling him Judas Iscariot. I do know that Jesus' brother James is not the apostle James.
 
2013-03-13 12:23:43 PM
Jesus had the ability to change shape

You mean like Mitt?

bennaon.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-13 12:24:10 PM
Weaver95:

possibility two:
so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool..


Was his name Brian? Roderick? Biggus Dickus?

/love this theory!
 
2013-03-13 12:25:06 PM

Bartleby the Scrivener: Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.

John Waters


Eli Roth
 
2013-03-13 12:26:17 PM
Not only a shape shifter, but also a time traveler.

img41.imageshack.us
 
2013-03-13 12:26:20 PM
I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A
 
2013-03-13 12:26:34 PM
Probability #1: It's all a load of crap. Even the bible (KJV) says, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Just... apparently, not the belief in magic and imaginary friends.
 
2013-03-13 12:29:29 PM

Crewmannumber6: Magorn: Having read that I find it utterly remarkable tht in the 2,000 year history of Christian tradtion, that nobody seems to have ever written a gospel that suggested that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of Jesus, was one and the same as Judas, Jesus' kid brother.

I'm not certain, but I don't think it's the same Judas, that's why they differentiate him by calling him Judas Iscariot. I do know that Jesus' brother James is not the apostle James.


Historically that's the accepted  tradition, but given all the other lines that blurred in the century or so between the actual events and thier first written versions, I'm a little surprised those characters din't get combined by someone looking to amp up the drama of the story.  Hell there's an entire Persian religion called Mandeanism  based on the idea that Jesus and John the Baptist were enlightened masters of their gnostic sect (which is why they had the title "Nasorean) and that Whereas John was a revered and worshipped figure for them, Jesus was regarded as an evil betrayer who broke sacred oaths by spilling the sect's secrets to the masses and making himself out to be a god
 
2013-03-13 12:31:13 PM
And his dinosaur was really a shape shifting donkey.
 
2013-03-13 12:32:02 PM
Athena and the rest of the Greek gods are not impressed.
 
2013-03-13 12:33:00 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


You're willing to risk the wrath of farkers by posting this?
 
2013-03-13 12:33:25 PM

master_of_rayality: Weaver95:

possibility two:
so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool..

Was his name Brian? Roderick? Biggus Dickus?

/love this theory!


well think about it.  every group has someone in it who's kind of a loveable idiot.  loyal, just smart enough to help with the con they're running and easy going enough not to get greedy.  My read is that Peter and Judas were the big brains of the operation.  everyone else was a mix of hangers on or actively in on the scam and not inherently loyal to the outfit.  i'll bet they scattered to the winds after they pulled that body out of the crypt.  when things started taking on a life of its own, Peter gets a couple of hard nosed realists among the remaining disciples together and cleans house.  He gets organized and figures he can ride this thing till the day he dies.  But Judas and a few of the others had time to think it through.  they're feeling guilty about how it all turned out and they wanna go legit.  But they're in too deep - they know too much.  Peter and his buddies know they need to keep a handle on the story.  Judas going all soft and blabby would destroy their religion before it gets off the ground.  So they show up all 'mexican standoff' spaghetti western style and Judas ends up dangling from the end of a rope.  that keeps the others in line when they hear about it, and Peter spreads some cash around to keep everyone in line.
 
2013-03-13 12:34:42 PM

TheXerox: FTFA:  A newly deciphered Egyptian text, dating back almost 1,200 years...

The Gospels in the New Testament were written closer to 1,900, to 2,000 years ago - still within the lifetimes of some of the people mentioned in them. This manuscript would have been written around 700-900 AD, long after the events took place and centuries after the deaths anybody who was around then and could dispute its veracity.

in short, fanfic until proven otherwise.



Actually, no one knows exactly when they were written and estimates date up to the second century. If they were all written within the lifetimes of the people within those stories you might expect to see less inconsistency between the different versions. It's generally accepted that they were most likely written years or decades apart, one following another.
 
2013-03-13 12:36:08 PM
1200 years ago is practically "current events" by Egyptian standards.  Ancient it is not.
 
2013-03-13 12:36:38 PM

redlegrick: Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up ...


Guy Ritchie.  With Peter played by Jason Statham and Judas by Vinnie Jones.
 
2013-03-13 12:37:30 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


Who gets the dame?

/read this with Bogarts' voice
 
2013-03-13 12:37:33 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


What if God thinks he'd rather hang out with independent thinkers with a sense of humor instead of a bunch of cringing sycophants?

Also, as per the rest of Pascal's Wager, it could be that God doesn't like a smartass.
 
2013-03-13 12:39:17 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


Dude, really? Your deity is the quintessential Negligent Parent of monumental proportions. Knowingly lets an agent of evil into the garden of paradise, knowingly leaves his "beloved children" with said agent of evil, then has the audacity to blame everybody else for the product of his own neglect when they are corrupted in their naivety. Does your god accept even a single shred of responsibility for his own neglect? You know what? In my imperfect state, I could have done better then that. Since your "All-powerful and Ever-loving God" apparently couldn't, he is obviously less than your holy book makes him out to be, and therefore, false. In fact, he falls far short of the level of responsibility we humans expect of even young, new parents, under penalty of law. As such, he is unworthy of worship.

Period.
 
2013-03-13 12:40:18 PM
Bongo Blue:

Who gets the dame?

/read this with Bogarts' voice


I'm guessing Judas.  Peter and his buddies weren't interested in women.  if they weren't flat out homosexuals, they were definitely misogynist  asshole control freaks.  Judas looked like he could party down and get with the ladies.
 
2013-03-13 12:42:12 PM

Crewmannumber6: At the Nicean Council the Coptics and Aryans were basically shouted down by the other sects (probably to curry favor with Rome) and this is when the story of Jesus took on supernatural characteristics. Until then then the majority of The Jesus Movement considered Jesus a holy man, but a man nonetheless.


Uh, not to be pedantic, but it was the "Arian" heresy, not "Aryan". It was named after Arius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius). Arius was yet another Egyptian Christian; it's not surprising that unusual ideas about Jeebus would arise in that environment, as they never really stopped arising.
 
2013-03-13 12:43:31 PM

Magorn: (yeah I know the RC church's official line is that he was an only child and his Momma somehow remained a virgin even after having it, but that's so pants-on-head stupid that like Most Catholics I just point and laugh when someone brings that up)


The bible mentions James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as Jesus's brothers.  I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child.  Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.
 
2013-03-13 12:45:09 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-13 12:45:20 PM

Master Sphincter: And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


Don't Do What Donny Don't Does

angryrunner.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-13 12:47:44 PM

Master Sphincter: You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles?


Well, yes, actually. I'm only using the free will Eve scored for me thanks to that "apple" deal back in the day.

/the serpent never lied.
 
2013-03-13 12:48:46 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


Leviticus, eh? Some of the juiciest stuff in the bible is there.

There's human sacrifice: Leviticus 27:28-29
God will kill you and your siblings if your parents refuse to convert: Leviticus 26:21-22
God condones slavery - as long as it's not Jew on Jew slavery: Leviticus 25:44-46
Etc. etc., including the death penalty for all sorts of ridiculous things like beard cutting or talking back to your parents.

Even if I did believe that the christian god was real I'd have to be either completely ignorant of him or an amoral son of a biatch to actually worship that evil piece of garbage.
 
2013-03-13 12:49:16 PM
Yes, Jesus was initiated into the Hermetic mysteries in Egypt. That is the thesis of The Magdalen Manuscript.  Now the text found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 are sometimes called the Gnostic Gospels (including the Gospel Of Thomas)
 
2013-03-13 12:49:22 PM

Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A


0/10 - You forgot to switch to your other user account.
 
2013-03-13 12:50:03 PM
Siddhis.

Jesus most certainly would have attained them.  E.g.::

1. PARKAYA PRAVESH - entering one's soul in the body of some other person.

2. HAADI VIDYA - a person neither feels hungry nor thirsty and he can remain without eating food or drinking water for several days at a stretch. Several Yogis of the Himalayas, remain engrossed in deep Sadhanas for months and years without eating or drinking anything.

 3. KAADI VIDYA - person shall not feel cold even if he sits in the snow laden mountains and shall not feel hot even if he sits in the fire. Thus a Sadhak can perform incessant penance without being affected by change of weather or seasons.

4. MADALASA VIDYA - a person becomes capable of increasing or decreasing the size of his body according to his wish.  Through this siddhi one may enter into stone or change the density in one's body, enabling one to pass through solid matter. Mahima Siddhi - The ability to increase the size of one's body, ultimately enveloping the universe.

5. VAYU GAMAN SIDDHI Through this Siddhi a person can become capable of flying in the skies and traveling from one place to another in just a few seconds. The Jain scriptures speak of Jain ascetics who could fly from place to place in a few seconds.

6. KANAKDHARA SIDDHI One can acquire immense and unlimited wealth through this Siddhi. It's said that once Shankaracharya saw a very poor and destitute woman and with the help of the Kanakdhara Yantra he showered gold in her house.

7. PRAKYA SADHANA Through this Sadhana a yogi can direct his disciple to take birth from the womb of a woman, who is childless or cannot bear children. Several Yogis have thus blessed infertile women with children. Swami Vishuddhanand had accomplished this Sadhana and had used it to bring happiness into the lives of several women. But today only two or three persons are accomplished in this Sadhana.

8. SURYA VIGYAN - one substance can be transformed into another through the medium of sun rays. Swami Vishudhananda had demonstrated the miracles of this science about 50-60 years ago, by transforming a paper into rose and a cotton ball into gold, otherwise it has become almost extinct.

9. MRIT SANJIVANI VIDYA - Through it even a dead person can be brought back to life. This practice may seem to be a myth but it had been used by Guru Gorakhnath several times. Today only a few persons have practical knowledge of this Vidya.
 
2013-03-13 12:52:35 PM
kid_icarus: ...bunchof dirty Arabian looking people.


Must you?
 
2013-03-13 12:52:44 PM

Precision Boobery: Not only a shape shifter, but also a time traveler.

[img41.imageshack.us image 500x570]


That is.... interesting.  Thanks.
 
2013-03-13 12:53:41 PM

Dion Fortune: Siddhis.

Jesus most certainly would have attained them.  E.g.::

1. PARKAYA PRAVESH - entering one's soul in the body of some other person.

2. HAADI VIDYA - a person neither feels hungry nor thirsty and he can remain without eating food or drinking water for several days at a stretch. Several Yogis of the Himalayas, remain engrossed in deep Sadhanas for months and years without eating or drinking anything.

 3. KAADI VIDYA - person shall not feel cold even if he sits in the snow laden mountains and shall not feel hot even if he sits in the fire. Thus a Sadhak can perform incessant penance without being affected by change of weather or seasons.

4. MADALASA VIDYA - a person becomes capable of increasing or decreasing the size of his body according to his wish.  Through this siddhi one may enter into stone or change the density in one's body, enabling one to pass through solid matter. Mahima Siddhi - The ability to increase the size of one's body, ultimately enveloping the universe.

5. VAYU GAMAN SIDDHI Through this Siddhi a person can become capable of flying in the skies and traveling from one place to another in just a few seconds. The Jain scriptures speak of Jain ascetics who could fly from place to place in a few seconds.

6. KANAKDHARA SIDDHI One can acquire immense and unlimited wealth through this Siddhi. It's said that once Shankaracharya saw a very poor and destitute woman and with the help of the Kanakdhara Yantra he showered gold in her house.

7. PRAKYA SADHANA Through this Sadhana a yogi can direct his disciple to take birth from the womb of a woman, who is childless or cannot bear children. Several Yogis have thus blessed infertile women with children. Swami Vishuddhanand had accomplished this Sadhana and had used it to bring happiness into the lives of several women. But today only two or three persons are accomplished in this Sadhana.

8. SURYA VIGYAN - one substance can be transformed into another through the medium of sun rays. Swami Vishudhanan ...


10. CHUTNEY BURRITO - The ability to feel fulfilled between the hours of 7 and 11.
 
2013-03-13 12:55:16 PM

gbv23: Yes, Jesus was initiated into the Hermetic mysteries in Egypt. That is the thesis of The Magdalen Manuscript.  Now the text found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 are sometimes called the Gnostic Gospels (including the Gospel Of Thomas)


I don't trust the Magdalenes
i207.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-13 12:56:32 PM

HAMMERTOE: Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A

Dude, really? Your deity is the quintessential Negligent Parent of monumental proportions. Knowingly lets an agent of evil into the garden of paradise, knowingly leaves his "beloved children" with said agent of evil, then has the audacity to blame everybody else for the product of his own neglect when they are corrupted in their naivety. Does your god accept even a single shred of responsibility for his own neglect? You know what? In my imperfect state, I could have done better then that. Since your "All-powerful and Ever-loving God" apparently couldn't, he is obviously less than your holy book makes him out to be, and therefore, false. In fact, he falls far short of the level of responsibility we humans expect of even young, new parents, under penalty of law. As such, he is unworthy of worship.

Period.



There's quite a lot about slavery in the bible. Rules about taking slaves, justifications for raping your slaves, Jehova ordering his followers to slaughter other people and take the survivors as slaves... Even Jesus' message to slaves was that they should obey their slavemasters' commands as if they were the words of god himself.

I've yet to hear a revision or apology for perpetuating the clearly evil practice of slavery from Jehova or his earthly representative, Jesus. Until the Christian god has the common decency to so much as issue an unambiguous apology he is a patently unworthy of worship. Christians worship a clearly evil figure.
 
2013-03-13 12:56:40 PM

Weaver95: well think about it.  every group has someone in it who's kind of a loveable idiot.  loyal, just smart enough to help with the con they're running and easy going enough not to get greedy.  My read is that Peter and Judas were the big brains of the operation.  everyone else was a mix of hangers on or actively in on the scam and not inherently loyal to the outfit.  i'll bet they scattered to the winds after they pulled that body out of the crypt.  when things started taking on a life of its own, Peter gets a couple of hard nosed realists among the remaining disciples together and cleans house.  He gets organized and figures he can ride this thing till the day he dies.  But Judas and a few of the others had time to think it through.  they're feeling guilty about how it all turned out and they wanna go legit.  But they're in too deep - they know too much.  Peter and his buddies know they need to keep a handle on the story.  Judas going all soft and blabby would destroy their religion before it gets off the ground.  So they show up all 'mexican standoff' spaghetti western style and Judas ends up dangling from the end of a rope.  that keeps the others in line when they hear about it, and Peter spreads some cash around to keep everyone in line.


Seriously, it's a Guy Ritchie movie.

Peter:  Roight.  Judas, quit yer bawlin'.  Oi'm tellin' ya, we can ride this out, keep it going.  We'll be fine, Oi say, just so long as you can keep yer bloody head in the game.  Otherwoise Oi'm gonna stick this sword up yer arse and fark ye blind with it.

Judas:  That sword?

Peter:  Yes, this sword.  Do you see any other farkin' swords lying about?

Judas:  Just that sword, what says 'Replica' on the side, and this sword, what says 'Deus Vult'.

(Peter drops the replica sword and gives Judas a jump kick to the head)
 
2013-03-13 12:57:19 PM

Charlie Chingas: Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A

You're willing to risk the wrath of farkers by posting this?


LOL, you owe me a new keyboard

/we will beat him over the head with ITGs!
 
2013-03-13 12:58:00 PM

Master Sphincter: You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles?


Salvation from what ?

// man up coward
 
2013-03-13 12:58:54 PM

Weaver95: possibility two:


I like it.  Instead of the poor sap asking dumbfounded "I killed the clerk?"  he was "I'm the son of God?"    Once they get that confession on tape, they kind of overlook the interrogative and assume the declarative.
 
2013-03-13 12:59:12 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: [i49.tinypic.com image 200x268]


"Let's go kill Jesus."

/best Christmas episode ever


That show just wasn't the same after that twat left...
 
2013-03-13 12:59:24 PM

mongbiohazard: Leviticus, eh? Some of the juiciest stuff in the bible is there.

There's human sacrifice: Leviticus 27:28-29
God will kill you and your siblings if your parents refuse to convert: Leviticus 26:21-22
God condones slavery - as long as it's not Jew on Jew slavery: Leviticus 25:44-46
Etc. etc., including the death penalty for all sorts of ridiculous things like beard cutting or talking back to your parents.

Even if I did believe that the christian god was real I'd have to be either completely ignorant of him or an amoral son of a biatch to actually worship that evil piece of garbage.


But,but,but... That's the stuff we choose to ignore because it's not really meant to be taken literally! Except for all that other stuff in the Bible that we take literally!
 
2013-03-13 01:00:44 PM

Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.


goddamn, I wanna see this movie...
 
2013-03-13 01:02:54 PM

gadian: I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child. Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.


http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

You sure about that?
 
2013-03-13 01:04:23 PM

Cuthbert Allgood: Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.

goddamn, I wanna see this movie...


before or after I get burned at the stake for heresy?
 
2013-03-13 01:04:43 PM

Weaver95: Bongo Blue:

Who gets the dame?

/read this with Bogarts' voice

I'm guessing Judas.  Peter and his buddies weren't interested in women.  if they weren't flat out homosexuals, they were definitely misogynist  asshole control freaks.  Judas looked like he could party down and get with the ladies.


good point! Judas gets the money and the girl.

/a lady prefers a man with a little coin in his tunic
// Hollywood ending!
 
2013-03-13 01:05:09 PM
I just read Wikipedia's page on the First Council of Nicaea and was surprised to see that there's no evidence they hand-picked the gospels at that time. I always thought they had.
 
2013-03-13 01:05:29 PM

gadian: Magorn: (yeah I know the RC church's official line is that he was an only child and his Momma somehow remained a virgin even after having it, but that's so pants-on-head stupid that like Most Catholics I just point and laugh when someone brings that up)

The bible mentions James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as Jesus's brothers.  I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child.  Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.


Sadly, the official Catholic line is that Mary is the "ever-virgin mother of God"  which, as you note is simply stupid, despite it having been around as a "thing" since the early  centuries AD.  It basis, I think anyway, is the basic misogyny that has permeated the church for centuries, as best summed up by this 4th century  Pope's take on the subject: "

Pope Siricius I


"You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord's body, that court of the eternal king" (Letter to Bishop Anysius[A.D. 392]).
 "

which translated into the modern vulgar reads roughly:

"EWWWWWW girl parts.  Sex is just icky"
 
2013-03-13 01:09:28 PM

Gonz: gadian: I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child. Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.

http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

You sure about that?


And we're back to anal sex... god I love these tardilicious threads...
 
2013-03-13 01:10:01 PM

mcreadyblue: Very interesting.

Shows how divisive the early Christians really were only a few years into their founding.


Thank God they're over that.
 
2013-03-13 01:10:51 PM

Precision Boobery: Not only a shape shifter, but also a time traveler.

[img41.imageshack.us image 500x570]


He shows up every now and again to see if the humans are ready to evolve and gets killed for his efforts every time.  I'm sure if he poked his head into this day and age he'd be toast just the same. Today's Christians, Muslims and Jews don't want to be told to get along and just grow up already.
 
2013-03-13 01:12:02 PM

Magorn: "EWWWWWW girl parts. Sex is just icky"


While I was in the middle of reading your post I was planning on responding to you with this. Then I saw that you had already written it.
 
2013-03-13 01:17:43 PM

gadian: Magorn: (yeah I know the RC church's official line is that he was an only child and his Momma somehow remained a virgin even after having it, but that's so pants-on-head stupid that like Most Catholics I just point and laugh when someone brings that up)

The bible mentions James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as Jesus's brothers.  I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child.  Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.


In fact, that's precisely the orthodox Catholic position (or was?). The "perpetual virginity of Mary" (yes, even after giving birth to Jesus) is dogma. I understand that the Catholic Church's position is that those others mentioned were Joseph's children by a previous marriage, and so Jesus' half-siblings. That's why Catholic iconography often depicts Joseph as an old man, even when Jesus was an infant.

And yes, this is completely arbitrary ret-conning, but it is what the Catholic Church asserts.
 
2013-03-13 01:21:01 PM

mikaloyd: Ancient egypt ended several hundred years BC

So this is very much newsworthy.


Or more properly, Egypt and Rome had functionally merged by this point, with Egypt being essentially a Roman territory or possession (much like what would happen to Israel itself some 70 years later under more violent circumstances).  People still followed the old religion and culture (in fact, there were actually synchretic Egypto-Roman and Egypto-Greek religions cropping up, some traces of which STILL exist in modern "spiritual alchemy" practice (the specific identification of Hermes Trigesimus with Ptah, for instance).

The Egpytians were among the first to take to the whole Christianity thing, and the Coptic Church and the Dewahedo Churches of Ethiopia and Eritrea have a number of books NOT in the Roman or Orthodox canon (being pretty much essentially a third ancient branch of Christianity that never was subsumed into Catholicism) so this isn't too surprising.

And re Jesus being portrayed as a shapeshifter in Egypt specifically, where at the time the Old Kemetic Faith was still very much alive (to the point the liturgical language of the Coptic church is actually a form of the old Egyptian language written in a Hellenicised script with some extra characters from Demotic for sounds that didn't exist in the Greek alphabet):..kind of interesting that eagle symbolism was used, as that is a sign of Horus that would have been known at the time...
 
2013-03-13 01:25:29 PM

Precision Boobery: Not only a shape shifter, but also a time traveler.

[img41.imageshack.us image 500x570]


The generous interpretation is that the early church, and in particular Matthew (who is solely responsible for the star in the east/three wise men narrative) appropriated popular long-standing mythological themes and attributed them to Jesus. This wouldn't be surprising: it's pretty clear that Matthew made up the Massacre of the Innocents out of whole cloth (possibly to deliberately echo the birth of Moses), and the Jews picked up all kinds of stuff during the Babylonian exile.

Think of it as the ancient world's equivalent of attributing everything funny on Facebook to George Carlin or Mark Twain.
 
2013-03-13 01:26:16 PM

Valiente: Crewmannumber6: At the Nicean Council the Coptics and Aryans were basically shouted down by the other sects (probably to curry favor with Rome) and this is when the story of Jesus took on supernatural characteristics. Until then then the majority of The Jesus Movement considered Jesus a holy man, but a man nonetheless.

Uh, not to be pedantic, but it was the "Arian" heresy, not "Aryan". It was named after Arius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius). Arius was yet another Egyptian Christian; it's not surprising that unusual ideas about Jeebus would arise in that environment, as they never really stopped arising.


Fun Fact: the "barbarians" we'd later call the Visigoths, and Vandals,  far from being pagans were actually Arianist Christians, and their attacks on Rome and North Africa were less marauding plunder expeditions and more like a holy crusade aimed at wiping out the Romanist heretics  and thier seige of the North African city of Hippo was specifically an effort to capture and kill the Romanist heretic -in-chief we now call St Agustine
 
2013-03-13 01:27:24 PM
Did someone say Egyption? A mathematician wrote a paper involving them here http://oeis.org/A220335/a220335.pdf  referencing a paper I wrote about the same thing but didn't spend time rigorously proving. Anyway, when I emailed the paper to a colleague at work he freaked out and immediately started telling me how he visited a museum about noah's ark and dinosaur bones.
 
2013-03-13 01:37:25 PM

Charlie Chingas: Gonz: gadian: I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child. Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.

http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

You sure about that?

And we're back to anal sex... god I love these tardilicious threads...


So Jesus' brothers, who are mentioned in the bible, were shiat out?
 
2013-03-13 01:39:13 PM

Bravo Two: Molavian: Weaver95: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand

That f*cking Loki.

he should stick to being dumped on by snake venom if he knows what's good for him.


Eh, Loki would have been a bit far away in trolling the Visigoths and all those other folks up from Germany north, so no worries re him.

Now, Enki on the other hand... :D  Or maybe Isis or Set (for the Egyptians) or ol' Hermes (for the Greeks and Romans under his "Mercury" name)...

/oddly enough, there are not really any true trickster deities in Mesopotamian mythos, Enki is about as close as one comes...pretty much most of the Old Gods were DEITY-ING IS SRS BUSINESS and their antagonists were being deity-level supervillains, Enki was pretty much the "sit down and drink your goddamn tea" god who had kind of a soft spot for humans, and would sneak gifts and/or warnings about smitings to his favourites...he's the god who warned the Sumerian "Noah-prototype" about the world flood, for instance
 
2013-03-13 01:50:19 PM

Bartleby the Scrivener: Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.

John Waters


That's a possibility
 
2013-03-13 01:56:06 PM
THIS EXPLAINS IT!

This is how the original DARK SKINNED Jesus has now become a white surfer dude guy!
 
2013-03-13 02:00:54 PM
There are several mentions in the King James Bible where Jesus was not recognized even by his closest associates.


1) Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb and thinks that he is the gardener.

2) When the disciples are out fishing, they don't recognize Jesus.

3) Two disciples meet Him on the road to Emmaus, travel with Him and talk with Him, and do not recognize Him until they eat dinner with Him.
 
2013-03-13 02:05:49 PM

KarmicDisaster: There are several mentions in the King James Bible where Jesus was not recognized even by his closest associates.


1) Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb and thinks that he is the gardener.

Did he have a bandana on?
2) When the disciples are out fishing, they don't recognize Jesus.
Did he have a bandana on?
3) Two disciples meet Him on the road to Emmaus, travel with Him and talk with Him, and do not recognize Him until they eat dinner with Him.
Did he have a bandana on?

Plus, sometimes we all look the same with a bandana on.
 
2013-03-13 02:06:09 PM

ggecko: THIS EXPLAINS IT!

This is how the original DARK SKINNED Jesus has now become a white surfer dude guy!


Which is STILL not the worst (and lulztastic) image of Jesus I've ever seen.

...When I was younger (read; when I was a minor and had no real choice in the matter), I was made (by my hyper-religious mother the Marguerite Perrin clone) to go to this diorama/wax-museum thing in Gatlinburg, TN called "Christus Gardens" (which closed temporarily in 2008)...which, I swear to (INSERT DEITY HERE), portrayed Jesus Christ as looking remarkably like Axl Rose (ruddy brown hair and the general complexion of an Irishman).  Even most of my relatives thought this utterly redonkulous...especially since everyone ELSE in the wax-museum dioramas was NOT portrayed as if Saint Patrick had just sailed to the Levant.

Same place also tended to sell convex carvings of Jesus' face that would appear to follow you--Big Brother Jesus, even.  Nothing quite like having the creepiest visage of the Son of God WATCHING YOU POOP.  FOREVER.

/why yes, I was (unfortunately) an involuntary introductee to the world of religious schlock on more than one vacation
//then again, I think it would have sorely shocked the delicate sensibilities of the people who WANTED to go to Christus Gardens if they realised Jesus probably looked in life much more like that nice man of Middle Eastern descent at the airbrush shop on the main drag :D
 
2013-03-13 02:11:08 PM

Charlie Chingas: KarmicDisaster: There are several mentions in the King James Bible where Jesus was not recognized even by his closest associates.


1) Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb and thinks that he is the gardener.
Did he have a bandana on?
2) When the disciples are out fishing, they don't recognize Jesus.
Did he have a bandana on?
3) Two disciples meet Him on the road to Emmaus, travel with Him and talk with Him, and do not recognize Him until they eat dinner with Him.
Did he have a bandana on?

Plus, sometimes we all look the same with a bandana on.


I'm not really sure what He was wearing by the Tomb, it says that his burial cloths were still in the tomb and burial customs being what they were He had nothing on under them.  Maybe He stole some robes off a clothes line. And a bandana.
 
2013-03-13 02:15:46 PM

KarmicDisaster: Charlie Chingas: KarmicDisaster: There are several mentions in the King James Bible where Jesus was not recognized even by his closest associates.


1) Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb and thinks that he is the gardener.
Did he have a bandana on?
2) When the disciples are out fishing, they don't recognize Jesus.
Did he have a bandana on?
3) Two disciples meet Him on the road to Emmaus, travel with Him and talk with Him, and do not recognize Him until they eat dinner with Him.
Did he have a bandana on?

Plus, sometimes we all look the same with a bandana on.

I'm not really sure what He was wearing by the Tomb, it says that his burial cloths were still in the tomb and burial customs being what they were He had nothing on under them.  Maybe He stole some robes off a clothes line. And a bandana.


Hopefully it was the right color. We don't want no war between the Jews and the locals there...
 
2013-03-13 02:29:39 PM

KarmicDisaster: I'm not really sure what He was wearing by the Tomb, it says that his burial cloths were still in the tomb and burial customs being what they were He had nothing on under them.  Maybe He stole some robes off a clothes line. And a bandana.


Bandana hammock.
 
xcv
2013-03-13 02:36:11 PM

Source4leko: Precision Boobery: Not only a shape shifter, but also a time traveler.

[img41.imageshack.us image 500x570]

That is.... interesting.  Thanks.


It's also BS. Just looking at the first one, Horus, wasn't born to a virgin, his mom, Isis, had him after she had sex with zombie Osiris. Plenty of weaknesses about the Jesus legend without having to make shiat up.
 
2013-03-13 02:45:09 PM

ShawnDoc: Charlie Chingas: Gonz: gadian: I don't believe it has ever been argued that Jesus was an only child. Only that Mary remained without sin, which isn't the same as staying a virgin.

http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

You sure about that?

And we're back to anal sex... god I love these tardilicious threads...

So Jesus' brothers, who are mentioned in the bible, were shiat out?


They were among the first Catholic Poops.
 
2013-03-13 02:51:27 PM

HAMMERTOE: Master Sphincter: I'm all for fun, but all this blasphemy is really unnecessary. What if you are wrong? You are willing to risk your salvation for a few chuckles? If this doesn't make you rethink your "humor" maybe heaven isn't for you anyway:

"I am the Lord your God, creator of heaven and earth. The wicked who take my name in vain shall wander in darkness for an eternity" Leviticus:69

 And this:
"The ways of the wicked attract the vanity of men. Do not as they do, but as they do not do" Leviticus: 69-A

Dude, really? Your deity is the quintessential Negligent Parent of monumental proportions. Knowingly lets an agent of evil into the garden of paradise, knowingly leaves his "beloved children" with said agent of evil, then has the audacity to blame everybody else for the product of his own neglect when they are corrupted in their naivety. Does your god accept even a single shred of responsibility for his own neglect? You know what? In my imperfect state, I could have done better then that. Since your "All-powerful and Ever-loving God" apparently couldn't, he is obviously less than your holy book makes him out to be, and therefore, false. In fact, he falls far short of the level of responsibility we humans expect of even young, new parents, under penalty of law. As such, he is unworthy of worship.

Period.


So you don't understand what the word "no" means? Good luck with law enforcement interactions.
 
2013-03-13 02:52:54 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.


...I like your version 2 far, far better than almost everything else suggested in any context.
 
2013-03-13 03:09:00 PM

Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona.  they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.  But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square.  so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town.  the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good.  He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go.   things are going great until the crowd goes nuts.  Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river.  So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit.  Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep.  they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next.  after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match.  if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames.  they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert.  then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.



Awesome

/and more plausable
 
2013-03-13 04:01:17 PM
palelizard: .... Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up ...

Guy Ritchie. With Peter played by Jason Statham and Judas by Vinnie Jones.


Where is the kickstarter for this one?
 
2013-03-13 04:01:38 PM
love it, I'm in.

Do I have to send money?
 
2013-03-13 04:23:25 PM

mikaloyd: Ancient egypt ended several hundred years BC

So this is very much newsworthy.


But the story of a Jesus type person born to a virgin mother and god father, the three wise men and all those other attributes of Jesus came before with Osiris, Mithras, and a whole platoon of other gods. Jesus wasn't the only virgin-birthed, son-of-god, martyred being in the pantheon of gods. He wasn't the first and he wasn't the last, just one of many.
 
2013-03-13 04:27:53 PM
In the text, Jesus comforts him, saying, "Oh Pilate, you have been deemed worthy of a great grace because you have shown a good disposition to me."

Are there any gods who would have called Pilate a pile of dog crap for using his son's life as payment into heaven? Because THAT god I would like.
 
2013-03-13 04:31:51 PM

Weaver95: Cuthbert Allgood: Weaver95: redlegrick: I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

let me finish writing the screenplay first, then we'll start shopping for a director.

goddamn, I wanna see this movie...

before or after I get burned at the stake for heresy?


Can you imagine the protests you would inspire?  Epic.  It really does sound like a great movie or book...

//keep us posted
 
2013-03-13 05:13:14 PM

Snarfangel: I can't wait until Mel Gibson makes a movie about it.


Apocryphlipto
 
2013-03-13 05:21:41 PM
"Then the Jews said to Judas: How shall we arrest him [Jesus], for he does not have a single shape but his appearance changes. Sometimes he is ruddy, sometimes he is white, sometimes he is red, sometimes he is wheat coloured, sometimes he is pallid like ascetics, sometimes he is a youth, sometimes an old man ..."

AH HAAA!!!! I KNEW IT!!! JESUS WAS A VAMPIRE!!!!

www.iiipublishing.com
 
2013-03-13 06:09:20 PM
Cool, but 800 AD isn't "ancient Egyptian." It's a dark ages extra-canon text.
 
2013-03-13 06:15:33 PM
he was a jerk like the lead singer of Dredg
 
2013-03-13 06:17:54 PM

Cuthbert Allgood: Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account.  the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona...


Possibility two seems like the most plausible jesus story i've heard...


I like the one that says Lazarus was Jesus' father, and he and Mary cooked up the Immaculate Conception to cover up the fact that they were having sex behind Joseph's back.
 
2013-03-13 06:58:30 PM
www.startrek.com

NOT IMPRESSED !
 
2013-03-13 06:59:28 PM

Weaver95: possibility two


I buy that...

Fits with the whole 'Jesus as paramilitary revolutionary' concept that has Jesus leading a revolutionary group/army which is why he was able to enter the temple and trash it when the temple was a massive area with thousands of priests, guards and worshippers that would've kicked one rowdy guy out PDQ.
 
2013-03-13 07:05:53 PM
So..that explains all the different colored pictures of Jesus I have seen .
 
2013-03-13 07:25:35 PM
WTF do you need to know it happened? Video?
 
2013-03-13 07:27:39 PM
well they ain't making jews like jesus anymore

/still wants to eat ms. silverman kosher style

yeah, bled by a rabbi first like it's sposed to be!
 
2013-03-13 07:34:39 PM
my drug dealer tells me that there exist "certain" LSD shapeshifters, that you can't even TELL IF THEY"RE HIGH!
and they shapeshift from high beings to regular people and yOU CANT EVEN TELL
 
2013-03-13 09:05:38 PM

Ennuipoet: [images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 675x506]


Came here for this shapeshifting being revered as a god by some.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one to think of that.
 
2013-03-14 12:06:42 AM

Great Porn Dragon: /oddly enough, there are not really any true trickster deities in Mesopotamian mythos...


Because they had jews to blame for everything instead?
 
2013-03-14 01:07:45 AM
Modern studies show Jesus Christ most likely didn't even exist given there's no collaborating proof to suggest he did and pretty much every event in his life's story is copied 3 or 4 times in previous religions from the previous 5,000 years.
 
2013-03-14 02:28:26 AM
Haters gonna' hate.
 
2013-03-14 04:40:42 AM

CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?


The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
2013-03-14 06:25:32 AM
There is an explanation for those hundreds of years of silence when Jesus supposedly walked the Earth: the construct of Christianity did not begin until after the first quarter of the fourth century, and that is why Pope Leo X (d. 1521) called Christ a "fable" (Cardinal Bembo: His Letters...,op. cit.).
 
2013-03-14 06:31:13 AM
Mark 16:12 says "...he appeared in another form unto two of them..." Luke 24 starting with verse13 appears to mention the same situation and also says they did not recognize him.
 
2013-03-14 10:29:11 AM

palelizard: Weaver95: well think about it.  every group has someone in it who's kind of a loveable idiot.  loyal, just smart enough to help with the con they're running and easy going enough not to get greedy.  My read is that Peter and Judas were the big brains of the operation.  everyone else was a mix of hangers on or actively in on the scam and not inherently loyal to the outfit.  i'll bet they scattered to the winds after they pulled that body out of the crypt.  when things started taking on a life of its own, Peter gets a couple of hard nosed realists among the remaining disciples together and cleans house.  He gets organized and figures he can ride this thing till the day he dies.  But Judas and a few of the others had time to think it through.  they're feeling guilty about how it all turned out and they wanna go legit.  But they're in too deep - they know too much.  Peter and his buddies know they need to keep a handle on the story.  Judas going all soft and blabby would destroy their religion before it gets off the ground.  So they show up all 'mexican standoff' spaghetti western style and Judas ends up dangling from the end of a rope.  that keeps the others in line when they hear about it, and Peter spreads some cash around to keep everyone in line.

Seriously, it's a Guy Ritchie movie.

Peter:  Roight.  Judas, quit yer bawlin'.  Oi'm tellin' ya, we can ride this out, keep it going.  We'll be fine, Oi say, just so long as you can keep yer bloody head in the game.  Otherwoise Oi'm gonna stick this sword up yer arse and fark ye blind with it.

Judas:  That sword?

Peter:  Yes, this sword.  Do you see any other farkin' swords lying about?

Judas:  Just that sword, what says 'Replica' on the side, and this sword, what says 'Deus Vult'.

(Peter drops the replica sword and gives Judas a jump kick to the head)


Maybe that's why Jason Statham turned down the new Star Wars movie.
 
2013-03-14 11:12:56 AM
reposted:
They should teach this to children in Christian/Catholic schools.  (I know a Catholic is a Christian, but just try calling a Christian a Catholic and get ready for some snarkyness or a head implosion if the Christian is a fundamentalist)

It makes Jesus like one of the Uncanny X-Men, which makes him cooler to the kiddies, so, totally awesome right?

Except Jesus is like mystique, and she is one of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, so a bad guy, so, it might confuse the children.

She also switched sides and became a good guy, so a lesson about redemption. But then she became a villain again, so not very Jesusy Jesusish Jesus-like.  But then she was a good guy again...

But she continued to change sides more often than a professional wrestler, and everyone knows a flip-flopper is bad, (I'm looking at you Mit. Sorry, you're just the recent target bud. Great smile, great teeth, great hair, what went wrong?).

So Mystique is a super wealthy, Mormon politician, just like Jesus.

We should ask the Pope.


GIS for Jesus Mystique:
i485.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-14 07:16:43 PM
He WAS a shape-shifter.

How else do you explain his ability to go from and i shape to a shape?

Too soon?
 
2013-03-15 02:26:28 PM

raatz01: Cool, but 800 AD isn't "ancient Egyptian." It's a dark ages extra-canon text.


Yes and no:

a) The text's age is closer to the Dark Ages, and probably more likely to be extracanonical (by Roman and Greek standards, anyways--the Coptics and the Dewahedo Orthodox churches have a fair number of books of the Bible that aren't in the rest of the Christian canons).

b) The liturgical language of the Coptic Church is Coptic, which IS the Egyptian language (as in the tongue of Ramses and Tutankhamen) as spoken and written around the time of the fall of the Roman empire.  (Egyptian was a living language at the time of Christ; hell, Coptic Egyptian was a living language up until the 17th century CE (which is the last known date Egyptian was used as a non-liturgical language; it is to this day STILL used as a liturgical language in Coptic churches much as Latin is used in Catholic churches that still celebrate the Latin mass).  The main thing we lost over the ages is how to read hieroglyphic and demotic script; by the time that the Egyptian language became the liturgical language of the Coptic church, it had changed over to a writing system largely based on the Greek alphabet with some additions from the demotic script for some sounds that do not exist in Greek.)

c) The Egyptian language, like many other languages, did change over time--going through six major periods of linguistic change.  The versions of Egyptian that would have been spoken and/or written during the time of Christ up through the Dark Ages would have been Middle Egyptian (still used as a literary language well up to the time of the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire, though it had not been spoken since 700 BCE), Demotic Egyptian (the tongue of Ptolemy et al, and which survived both as a written and spoken language well up to the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire and a bit beyond) and Coptic Egyptian (evolved from and often considered to be a surviving form of Late Egyptian--forked around the time of Christ or a little before, survived as an everyday tongue until at least the 1700s CE, still used as a liturgical language by Coptic Christians and there is actually some interest in reviving the language for everyday use similarly to how Hebrew and some recently-extinct First Nations languages have been revived).
 
2013-03-15 02:37:54 PM

LiberalConservative: Great Porn Dragon: /oddly enough, there are not really any true trickster deities in Mesopotamian mythos...

Because they had jews to blame for everything instead?


Except that even substantially pre-Judaism-fork Semitic and Mesopotamian mythos don't have any true trickster deities either (not even if you go aaaaaaaalll the hell the way back to Sumerian and the original mythological writings--and Judaism forked from Caananite versions of the Mesopotamian Old Religion quite a bit after the Sumerian version of (for example) the Epic of Gilgamesh and other Sumerian mythological works were set to clay tablets.

No, the Middle East (I'm afraid) has pretty much always been filled with SRS PEOPLE ARE SRS types when it comes to religion--at least based on what we have found that the earlier civilisations recorded.  (This actually stands out when you realise that Egypt had trickster deities that ranged from nice to not-so-nice to "killing joke" types, Greece had trickster gods, and even pre-Zarathustran Vedic faiths in what was then Persia tended to have a trickster god or two in their ranks.)
 
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