If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The New York Times)   Should the criminal justice system handle rape cases on college campuses or should they be left to the colleges' Greek Councils to handle?   (nytimes.com) divider line 61
    More: Obvious, criminal justice system, country legal systems, judicial system, colleges, rape victim  
•       •       •

5198 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 12:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-03-13 12:35:21 PM
4 votes:
Perhaps the universities could issue some sort of letter, a Greek letter, maybe, to women are bringing rape charges. The women could then wear those letters as a way of raising awareness of the profound issues surrounding rape that exist on campus. This could become an invaluable way for institutions of higher learning to help their students learn how to navigate complicated issues of adult sexuality, and also help young men know which women really mean "no" when they say it. There could even be a slogan: See a letter on her chest, listen to her request. It could all help reduce a lot of needless suffering.
2013-03-13 11:40:04 AM
3 votes:
Yeah, why shouldn't colleges, who have a vested interest in making rape cases disappear - both for public image/funding and for protecting certain fraternity members and interests - handle their own rape cases?

It's not like School Administrators and campus police have never been openly hostile, or threatened rape victims to shut their mouth, right?

Or, uh, threatened to expel them?

Or completely, utterly botched rape cases?
2013-03-13 09:22:02 PM
2 votes:
hardinparamedic: YoungLochinvar: Easier said than done if you're already thrice as drunk as the girl. In that case they look downright sober, you know.

So what you're saying is that men are animals, devoid of personal responsibility and self-control, who are unable to stop themselves from getting so drunk they lose control of the situation, and get taken advantage of by the sex they like to portray as weak, helpless, and less worthy of respect?

Damn. Self-respect, dude. Self respect.


Are you even aware how ridiculous your interpretation of what I've said is (not to mention how inherently sexist it shows you to be)?
2013-03-13 09:11:47 PM
2 votes:

BlaqueKatt: IamAwake: do you *seriously* never want to go out and just have fun?  Or maybe, I dunno, get to mutually choose/consent to who you have sex with?  Farking idiot.  For fark's sake, I go out and party quite often, I just happen to have a dick instead of a vagina.  Am I asking for it too, though?

well if she's drunk, and you're too drunk to tell how drunk she is, well according to the law, if she's too drunk to give consent, you're guilty. Know a couple people that served time for that, aka: buyer's remorse.


Yet he is also drunk and therefore she is also guilty (if the law is any kind of fair). What do we have then? Mutual non-consensual sex? Did they rape each other? How do you rape someone without at least having some intention to perform sexual acts?

See how stupid this can get?
2013-03-13 08:08:57 PM
2 votes:

orbister: If it's not about sex, why not just a physical beating?



Think about this, and be honest: if you get into an accident with a guy friend, and he gave you an ultimatum, to either submit to a beating, or him raping you, which would you take?  Or you want to break up with your girlfriend, she instead clocks you with a frying pan, throws you on the bed, and pegs you without lube, screaming that you aren't breaking up with her, is that not so bad as her only beating you with the frying pan?  Or you're at a party, drunk and high as fark, and the ugly girl comes over and starts jerking you off.  You try pushing her away because you have a girlfriend already, and you really don't want a handjob from that girl, and it's starting to hurt, but you're drunk and so, handjob!, all because you mumbled something?

There is a sexual component, but that's not the reason behind the act.  It's not about getting off, or farking a hot pussy.  Maybe that helps the selection of "victim", and maybe it really turns you on when someone cries, or lays catatonic, as you fark them.  You could pay for that and be done with it.  Rape is about control.  It's about degrading someone in the most intimate way imaginable.  It's about making them feel pain in an act that is otherwise damned awesome.  It's about somehow restraining someone and entering their body as if it's yours to play with and break, and there's not a damned thing they can do about it.  You can beat someone, and that is horrible with long-term physical and psychological impact.  There is an added horror when you involve sexual organs in the beating.
2013-03-13 06:22:16 PM
2 votes:

DerAppie: hardinparamedic: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Might have to do with the fact that rape is a crime of power and control being generally accepted by the psychiatric community at large as the motivation, and not because the guy hasn't had his balls drained in the last few weeks.

DerAppie: If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.

Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.

Yes, because drunk people are so well known for their well thought out actions. Being drunk seriously impairs your ability to judge the level of impairment in others. So once again, if a drunk man and a drunk woman have sex, why should the woman be the victim of rape and the man a rapist? If it is the man's responsibility to keep it in his pants, why isn't it the woman's responsibility to keep her panties on?

Once again, only applicable when said impairment is the consequence of the person's own decision.


You hit the nail on the head.  I've never understood how people can claim to be feminists/egalitarians and yet not see how obviously degrading this double standard is for women.  To say that intoxicated women are unable to give consent but intoxicated men are just perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak and need protection.

I used to work in law enforcement and I can tell you that we frequently had to explain to women that being pestered into having sex or having sex when you're drunk and regretting it the next day is NOT rape.  The only time someone is too inebriated to give consent is when they're literally too inebriated to give consent, as in unable to express consent verbally or otherwise.  A woman can be blackout drunk, stumbling and falling over, and still consent to sex as long as she's coherent enough to express that consent.  I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I remember once where we actually apprehended a group of marines for supposedly "raping" some dependent spouse while her service-member was deployed.  One of them had a cell phone video depicting her engaged in obviously consensual sex with this group of marines.  I won't go into too much detail, but suffice to say it's hard to scream "Give it to me devil dogs!" with a mouthful of cock.  Showing her the video, explaining to her that she was a lying whore, and charging her for the false report were deeply satisfying.
2013-03-13 06:06:54 PM
2 votes:

tlars699: hardinparamedic: the801: and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?

Great job sounding like "Not blaming the victim" when you said "If only those molded temptresses weren't there, the men wouldn't have gotten rapey!"

You are correct, that no man should be rapey. Ever.
But, really, defending idiotic girls who would insist on wearing miniskirts on New Year's Eve to outdoor "house" parties, who wish to partake in illegal activities, sponsored by older men for free... ? They have the right to be not raped, just as I have the right to not be robbed of a laptop that I leave in my unlocked car.
Even if I have that right, you still have the right to call me an idiot for allowing that situation to occur in the first place.

You can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.


This is pretty much where I'm at.  The victim is never to blame, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't take steps to mitigate risk.

If you're walking through southwest Detroit at 3am wearing a gold Rolex while counting out $100 bills and get mugged, the only person who deserves blame is the mugger but that doesn't mean you aren't an idiot.  Same with rape.  If a woman goes to a frat party wearing her sluttiest fark-me dress with and gets sloppy drunk with a bunch of strange men, is it her fault when she gets raped?  Of course not.  She should be able to do these things without risk of being attacked just like the person walking through SW Detroit counting money should be able to do so without being mugged.  The fault rests entirely with the attacker.  Is she to blame?  No.  Is what happened acceptable?  No.  Do I care or have any sympathy?  No.  It's a predictable outcome to a series of bad decisions.
2013-03-13 02:37:38 PM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Might have to do with the fact that rape is a crime of power and control being generally accepted by the psychiatric community at large as the motivation, and not because the guy hasn't had his balls drained in the last few weeks.

DerAppie: If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.

Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.


Yes, because drunk people are so well known for their well thought out actions. Being drunk seriously impairs your ability to judge the level of impairment in others. So once again, if a drunk man and a drunk woman have sex, why should the woman be the victim of rape and the man a rapist? If it is the man's responsibility to keep it in his pants, why isn't it the woman's responsibility to keep her panties on?

Once again, only applicable when said impairment is the consequence of the person's own decision.
2013-03-13 02:24:13 PM
2 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?



Banks shouldn't have vaults. We should just ask thieves to stop stealing.

Weapons of all types should be allowed everywhere. We should just ask murderers to stop murdering.

Websites shouldn't have passwords. We should just ask hackers to stop stealing personal information.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a crime-free utopia, so we need to take basic precautions against crime. I'm not saying that rape should continue to be praised as it is in some social circles today, but protecting yourself and discouraging rapists are not mutually exclusive.
2013-03-13 02:13:59 PM
2 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?


Oh, you've caught us! That's right, every single man out there has been taught that it's OK to rape women. All we need is some good, stern lecturing to change our indoctrination. In no way are crimes ever committed by sociopathic individuals who effectively cannot be taught, no matter what you think.

Your implications that "men" are inherently rapists, is, quite frankly, quite offensive.
2013-03-13 01:02:07 PM
2 votes:

the801: frat boys already have a lot of experience with rape; i say we leave it to the pros.

ftfa: "The two processes are not mutually exclusive: survivors can take action through both their college disciplinary systems and the criminal justice system and, indeed, colleges should inform and educate them about their right to do so. "

i feel especially sorry for the ones who didn't survive...

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


Ahh yes. To the Burka store!
2013-03-13 12:59:48 PM
2 votes:

the801: frat boys already have a lot of experience with rape; i say we leave it to the pros.

ftfa: "The two processes are not mutually exclusive: survivors can take action through both their college disciplinary systems and the criminal justice system and, indeed, colleges should inform and educate them about their right to do so. "

i feel especially sorry for the ones who didn't survive...

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


You are correct, sir. It's not really a good idea to go to these events if I want to completely avoid being raped, but you are forgetting sir, that: 1. They are inexperienced. 2. Nobody should be raping in the first place. 3. All of the above you have mentioned should not be happening on a campus, as most of that list is illegal.
2013-03-13 12:41:04 PM
2 votes:

Pocket Ninja: Perhaps the universities could issue some sort of letter, a Greek letter, maybe, to women are bringing rape charges. The women could then wear those letters as a way of raising awareness of the profound issues surrounding rape that exist on campus. This could become an invaluable way for institutions of higher learning to help their students learn how to navigate complicated issues of adult sexuality, and also help young men know which women really mean "no" when they say it. There could even be a slogan: See a letter on her chest, listen to her request. It could all help reduce a lot of needless suffering.


This could be helped by making the letter the color of stop signs, in order to encourage people to pause and ask, and making it the first letter of the greek alphabet would keep the idea first and foremost in their mind.
2013-03-13 12:39:25 PM
2 votes:

Pocket Ninja: Perhaps the universities could issue some sort of letter, a Greek letter, maybe, to women are bringing rape charges. The women could then wear those letters as a way of raising awareness of the profound issues surrounding rape that exist on campus. This could become an invaluable way for institutions of higher learning to help their students learn how to navigate complicated issues of adult sexuality, and also help young men know which women really mean "no" when they say it. There could even be a slogan: See a letter on her chest, listen to her request. It could all help reduce a lot of needless suffering.


Hmm. I see your point. These women would be leaders in the community, or alpha-females. So maybe we could simply go with Alpha. Since many of these women are staying "no", or "stop", red would be a natural color for them to wear.

So a large red Alpha on their chest would probably work best.
2013-03-13 12:38:52 PM
2 votes:
Quick pic of the college Greek council

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
2013-03-13 12:17:53 PM
2 votes:
Should the criminal justice system handle rape cases at Catholic Churches or should they be left to the upper ups at the Catholic Church to handle?
2013-03-14 09:53:18 AM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: DerAppie: Funny isn't it? The latest argument for women not being responsible for their own actions after drinking is that men shouldn't drink so much that they lose the ability to effectively judge level of intoxication in others. As opposed to women not drinking so much that they lose the ability to keep in control of the situation.

The fact that you took an obvious reversal and lampshading of your words in this thread towards women and tried to portray it as a factual, completely serious statement on my part shows you really don't have any desire to have honest discussion about this.

It's perfectly okay to give the guy a clean pass, and blame the woman, but when it's the opposite scenario, somehow I offend you, you delicate little flower.


Show me one post in this thread where I blamed women for anything. Just one. There are none because all I asked for was for someone to explain the dichotomy in the perception of responsibility when two people have drunken sex (hint: society puts it all on the man). I never said women asked to be rape or deserved to be raped, secretly liked to be raped, couldn't handle responsibility, make their own decisions or anything like that. I also never claimed that women need to be sheltered from anything. My point was the exact opposite, why are women being sheltered by society from taking responsibility for their own actions? I also never gave anyone a clean pass because there is no clean pass to be given. Two people have drunken sex and that's the end of it. So either none are guilty or they are both guilty. Since you can't logically both be guilty of raping each other, no one should be held accountable for a crime for none was committed.

In my first two posts I even made the statement that the intoxication has to be of their own choosing, therefore slipping someone alcohol or drugs isn't something you can bring against my point. People also brought up that someone could be passed out or even dead, but then you aren't having sex since you aren't participating. You are just having sex done to you. I also stated that this is clearly rape. So maybe you are willing to give it one last shot: Why does society put all the responsibility on men? Even in your first reaction to me you said that men should just keep it in their pants when they do not know how drunk the woman is, yet you make no mention of the responsibility of the woman to keep her panties on. Why?

I'll read your next response and then I'll tag out if it doesn't address at least the main points of this post. So if you are actually interested in a decent conversation you'd better make it count.
2013-03-14 09:16:23 AM
1 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?



You always take the same approach in all of these threads. Is it really still unclear to you? YES it too big of a farking task, because more, entitled, assholes with nothing to lose, reach sexual maturity EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.
2013-03-14 09:11:51 AM
1 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.


I would say that anyone getting raped DOES have a problem. All of your wishes notwithstanding.
2013-03-14 08:49:56 AM
1 votes:

DerAppie: Funny isn't it? The latest argument for women not being responsible for their own actions after drinking is that men shouldn't drink so much that they lose the ability to effectively judge level of intoxication in others. As opposed to women not drinking so much that they lose the ability to keep in control of the situation.


The fact that you took an obvious reversal and lampshading of your words in this thread towards women and tried to portray it as a factual, completely serious statement on my part shows you really don't have any desire to have honest discussion about this.

It's perfectly okay to give the guy a clean pass, and blame the woman, but when it's the opposite scenario, somehow I offend you, you delicate little flower.
2013-03-14 08:45:34 AM
1 votes:
the801: and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! ...<snip>


You'll never win that one. The response will be "teach men not to rape."

I saw a woman on NBC who kept pressing that she doesn't want to hear anyone try to tell her how her actions have any bearing at all. It all comes down to the aggressor.

While that may be true, predators pick prey based on readily apparent visual queues. You mileage may vary. I truly wish  success for women who demand society to change but are unwilling to change their actions in any way.
2013-03-14 07:54:24 AM
1 votes:

YoungLochinvar: hardinparamedic: YoungLochinvar: Easier said than done if you're already thrice as drunk as the girl. In that case they look downright sober, you know.

So what you're saying is that men are animals, devoid of personal responsibility and self-control, who are unable to stop themselves from getting so drunk they lose control of the situation, and get taken advantage of by the sex they like to portray as weak, helpless, and less worthy of respect?

Damn. Self-respect, dude. Self respect.

Are you even aware how ridiculous your interpretation of what I've said is (not to mention how inherently sexist it shows you to be)?


Funny isn't it? The latest argument for women not being responsible for their own actions after drinking is that men shouldn't drink so much that they lose the ability to effectively judge level of intoxication in others. As opposed to women not drinking so much that they lose the ability to keep in control of the situation.
2013-03-14 12:53:14 AM
1 votes:
It's funny to watch people define rape as being about power, and then claim all the power in defining what constitutes rape. It takes a special form of stupid to pretend there's only one side to the story.
2013-03-13 09:25:54 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Because it is fairly difficult to get a boner while completely smashed, especially if you're passed out.  Since a boner is required for sex to occur, that would suggest it is unlikely that the dude was completely smashed - and very improbable that he was passed out.  The girl, on the other hand, can be dead, passed out, whatever - doesn't stop the sex from happening.

Glad to have cleared that up for you.  Next problem plaguing your poor little tortured soul?


It's not as difficult as you seem to think, and it's certainly *far* from impossible. Now, I totally agree that sleeping with a passed out woman is rape, because she CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. That *is* rape. Not really a hard concept. Not the question you were asked, however.
2013-03-13 09:08:12 PM
1 votes:
SQD,

That's a good rule to have and drunk sex sure isn't classy but that doesn't make it, by itself, rape.  The cases you describe ("hold them down and force matters") would be rape regardless of whether drinking was involved or not.
2013-03-13 08:01:20 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Because it is fairly difficult to get a boner while completely smashed, especially if you're passed out.  Since a boner is required for sex to occur, that would suggest it is unlikely that the dude was completely smashed - and very improbable that he was passed out.  The girl, on the other hand, can be dead, passed out, whatever - doesn't stop the sex from happening.

Glad to have cleared that up for you.  Next problem plaguing your poor little tortured soul?


That's  cut and dried when the girl is passed out cold.  What if she's no more inebriated than the guy?

Also, it is not uncommon for a drunk to function at a relatively high level without remembering it later.  Amnesia is not proof that one was unconscious in the past.  In fact, it's rather difficult to determine objectively whether a subject can recall something or not.

Again, the best thing to do is to record every fark.
2013-03-13 07:50:01 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Because it is fairly difficult to get a boner while completely smashed, especially if you're passed out.  Since a boner is required for sex to occur, that would suggest it is unlikely that the dude was completely smashed - and very improbable that he was passed out.  The girl, on the other hand, can be dead, passed out, whatever - doesn't stop the sex from happening.

Glad to have cleared that up for you.  Next problem plaguing your poor little tortured soul?


Nice strawman, I was talking about intoxicated people who willingly did things together. If one of them is physically unable to give consent for whatever reason it defaults to rape. But there is a whole lot of gray area in which men are rapists and women are innocent victims according to a lot of people.

blogs.amctv.com
I hope this message will help you in being less obtuse in the future.
2013-03-13 07:45:21 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Because it is fairly difficult to get a boner while completely smashed, especially if you're passed out.  Since a boner is required for sex to occur, that would suggest it is unlikely that the dude was completely smashed - and very improbable that he was passed out.  The girl, on the other hand, can be dead, passed out, whatever - doesn't stop the sex from happening.

Glad to have cleared that up for you.  Next problem plaguing your poor little tortured soul?


Er... nobody's saying that it's okay to have sex with passed out women.

He was referring to the double standard where if a man and a woman, both equally intoxicated, engage in sex, the man is seen as a rapist and the woman's consent regarded as invalid because of her intoxication while the man's consent is taken as a given regardless of his intoxication.  What does anything you wrote have to do with that?
2013-03-13 07:33:30 PM
1 votes:

DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?


Because it is fairly difficult to get a boner while completely smashed, especially if you're passed out.  Since a boner is required for sex to occur, that would suggest it is unlikely that the dude was completely smashed - and very improbable that he was passed out.  The girl, on the other hand, can be dead, passed out, whatever - doesn't stop the sex from happening.

Glad to have cleared that up for you.  Next problem plaguing your poor little tortured soul?
2013-03-13 04:09:52 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: umad: I never said you were a man.

No. You made a silly little claim about the exception defining the rule, rather than the rule having exceptions, and then inferred I thought that way because I was supposedly a woman.


And just FYI, being a rapist is every bit the exception to the rule as being a false accuser is. Funny you only care when one of them is misrepresented.
2013-03-13 04:04:26 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: umad: I never said you were a man.

No. You made a silly little claim about the exception defining the rule, rather than the rule having exceptions, and then inferred I thought that way because I was supposedly a woman.


No. I generalized about women because you generalized about men to show you that your argument is retarded.
2013-03-13 03:44:51 PM
1 votes:

DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?


Because penis.
2013-03-13 03:07:38 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.


I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because women are unable to take responsibility for their choices. That is the WOMAN'S problem, not mine. I could have consensual sex with 1000 women at an orgy and it still wouldn't give a woman the right to withdraw consent after the fact. Telling men to keep it in their pants and not go to parties and not hit on drunk chicks will probably stop a tiny percentage of false rape accusations but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" men on how to change their lives to avoid getting accused of rape, how about teaching women to stop treating the cops like their personal vengeance squad to do with what they wish? Or is that too much to ask?
2013-03-13 03:02:40 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: quickdraw: BarkingUnicorn: quickdraw: BarkingUnicorn: Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.

If you wanted to rape her then yes I would say that is your problem.

After hearing that, I wanted to rape her with my car's steering column.  But I didn't.

well then... yeah. You have a problem.

I have a problem because I didn't rape a woman.  You are seriously farked in the head.


That's not what I said at all. So it appears you have two problems.

1. Reading comprehension
2. A predilection for rape fantasies.
2013-03-13 02:58:17 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.


Knowing that "the risks" are stacked against women for rape why not apply the same advice about hanging out and drinking with guys you don't knwo well?
2013-03-13 02:51:21 PM
1 votes:
Oh, I smell irony.
2013-03-13 02:51:04 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Might have to do with the fact that rape is a crime of power and control being generally accepted by the psychiatric community at large as the motivation, and not because the guy hasn't had his balls drained in the last few weeks.

DerAppie: If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.

Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.


Easier said than done if you're already thrice as drunk as the girl. In that case they look downright sober, you know.
2013-03-13 02:50:47 PM
1 votes:

quickdraw: BarkingUnicorn: quickdraw: BarkingUnicorn: Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.

If you wanted to rape her then yes I would say that is your problem.

After hearing that, I wanted to rape her with my car's steering column.  But I didn't.

well then... yeah. You have a problem.


I have a problem because I didn't rape a woman.  You are seriously farked in the head.
2013-03-13 02:49:15 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: lordaction: When you don't have facts I guess you have to attack the individual.

When the individual is an absurd liar with a history of posting things that would make even the most simple of person laugh in their face, and their profile, up until last week was filled with bizarre religious scripture, yes.


Since you are so completely wrong on my stances, let me just make them really clear for you.


-God created Adam and Eve NOT ADAM AND STEVE

-The devil continues to tempt you all with the forbidden fruit, just as he tempted Eve, that's why you are atheists/Satanists

-Science is just an opinion

-Evolution doesn't real

-Jesus fed dinosaurs

-God put fossils in the Earth just to trick you

-Dawkins is the antichrist, no wonder you worship him

-You can  only be good with God

-Church should be taught in school

-Church should be everyday

-Priests should be judges in every court

-Obama is the other antichrist

-Babies should be allowed to carry guns

-Mothers who abort rape babies are going to hell

-God means for women to be raped

-And he wants them to have their rape babies

-Obama isn't a U.S. citizen

-George W. Bush was right about everything

-Jesus was white, like in the paintings
2013-03-13 02:47:34 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: quickdraw: BarkingUnicorn: Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.

If you wanted to rape her then yes I would say that is your problem.

After hearing that, I wanted to rape her with my car's steering column.  But I didn't.


well then... yeah. You have a problem.
2013-03-13 02:41:32 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: lordaction: When you don't have facts I guess you have to attack the individual.

When the individual is an absurd liar with a history of posting things that would make even the most simple of person laugh in their face, and their profile, up until last week was filled with bizarre religious scripture, yes.


So no facts then.

I find it frightening how upset you get that I speak out  for the rights of the innocent.
2013-03-13 02:41:00 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.


If you wanted to rape her then yes I would say that is your problem.
2013-03-13 02:37:33 PM
1 votes:
Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.

I was driving home from work at 5 p.m. when her oncoming car turned suddenly right across my path; no turn signal, no yielding, nothing behind me for a mile.  She just wanted to go where and when she wanted to go.  I stood on the brakes but there was no avoiding the crash.  Her front driver's corner took out my radiator.  First words out of her mouth as she got out of her car were,

"Didn't you see me turning?"

/It was her third DWI in 18 months.  She got six months in jail.
2013-03-13 02:12:11 PM
1 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?


No.  It's just not enough.  You're the one who said, "Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes..."  I'm the one suggesting that you not leave your safety "entirely" in someone else's hands.
2013-03-13 02:10:52 PM
1 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?


Male lust has been the DRIVING force in evolution since there have been 2 sexes. Men who find sex uninteresting don't have many kids. A culture full of men who 'behave themselves' won't have many kids either since women certainly don't put much effort towards having sex other than sitting around waiting for a good enough guy to come to them.

So yeah, it IS your problem. If you are attractive, men will lust for you and you will have to take some precautions. If you don't like it, don't be attractive. Personally, I'm tired of the friggin whining. It's like listening to spoiled rich, famous celebrities complaining about too much attention.
2013-03-13 02:07:44 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Yeah, why shouldn't colleges, who have a vested interest in making rape cases disappear - both for public image/funding and for protecting certain fraternity members and interests - handle their own rape cases?

It's not like School Administrators and campus police have never been openly hostile, or threatened rape victims to shut their mouth, right?

Or, uh, threatened to expel them?

Or completely, utterly botched rape cases?


and ironically, it can also be extremely unfair to those ACCUSED of rape as well.  Had a buddy year ago that dated a girl who unbeknownst to him was MPD.  One night they were playing perfectly consensual kinky games in her dorm room when she "shifted" to an alter that had no knowledge of what was going on or who he was.  After bloody murder was screamed and the cops were called. Buddy found himself in handcuffs and facing some very deep shiat, until she apparently transitionted back to the girl who'd said yes to him in the first place.  That got him released by the cops but not the campus administration.  the "J-board" prosecutor felt that his lack of knowledge about her condition was irrelevant because he should have known that no normal woman would consent to that kind of activity so she MUST have been crazy.  Ergo in her eyes he was guilty of rape anyway.   She got a tame Student Council hearing board to go along with that and he got expelled about 5 credit short of graduation-and he's so worried bout having a sex assualt on his student record that he's never tried to apply anywhere else to finish his degree,
2013-03-13 01:54:48 PM
1 votes:

browser_snake: The proper venue for rape accusations is the legal system. Period. Next issue.


See that?  That is a thread winner.  Everything else is moot.  This is why:

Endive Wombat: Should the criminal justice system handle rape cases at Catholic Churches or should they be left to the upper ups at the Catholic Church to handle?


We have a criminal justice system to guard against every individual group's handling of a crime.  It protects victims and the accused to have an ideally neutral, unbiased 3rd party to gather evidence, make arguments, and judge.  Of course, no system is pure, or untainted by prejudice and societal influence.  The weakness also becomes its strength, as this system can adapt.  It's hard to change institutional practices when the institution is protected by tradition (Sh'ia), leadership being non-local (Catholic Church), or moneyed interests (all institutions).
2013-03-13 01:54:24 PM
1 votes:

teenytinycornteeth: the801:

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.
2013-03-13 01:46:11 PM
1 votes:
the801:

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?
2013-03-13 01:39:34 PM
1 votes:
tlars699:
You can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.

oh, and ladies and men can dress and preen any way they want, and should never have to take 'rape' into consideration. displaying one's self as a sex object is fun, and can be an invitation for intrest from sexually interested peoples, but certainly in no way is an invitation for any physical molestation or rape or such.

801 out.
2013-03-13 01:34:10 PM
1 votes:
tlars699:
 can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.

or going clubbing with some friends (or alone even), or going to some house party, or a campus bar or music event, or hanging out with friends in whatever way you enjoy which may or may not involve dungeons or dragons, or going to a party / event hosted by an on-campus organization, or a dorm party, or whatever else. if freshmen entering college don't know that frat boys often (not always, i'm sure) have a sense of entitlement when it comes to rape, then that should be mentioned at freshman orientation. also maybe setting some personal rules such as stay at the party, don't go up to some guy's room with him until you know him well. have some friends there who know your intentions watching out for you...

"In 2008, fraternity members photographed themselves in front of the Yale Women's Center with a poster reading, "We Love Yale Sluts." In 2009, a widely e-mailed "preseason scouting report" rated the desirability of about 50 newly arrived freshman women by the number of drinks a man would need in order to have sex with them. And in October, fraternity pledges paraded through a residential quadrangle chanting: "No means yes!" "
 -   http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/nyregion/08yale.html?pagewanted=all

but back to the original topic, schools need to crack down on institutionalized rape such as what often happens in frats, and offenders should be tried and punished by the legal system and expelled from school.
2013-03-13 01:31:21 PM
1 votes:
The Penn State judicial system seemed to work just fine. What's the problem?
2013-03-13 01:17:54 PM
1 votes:

tlars699: hardinparamedic: the801: and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?

Great job sounding like "Not blaming the victim" when you said "If only those molded temptresses weren't there, the men wouldn't have gotten rapey!"

You are correct, that no man should be rapey. Ever.
But, really, defending idiotic girls who would insist on wearing miniskirts on New Year's Eve to outdoor "house" parties, who wish to partake in illegal activities, sponsored by older men for free... ? They have the right to be not raped, just as I have the right to not be robbed of a laptop that I leave in my unlocked car.
Even if I have that right, you still have the right to call me an idiot for allowing that situation to occur in the first place.

You can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.


As someone who engages in both the greek party scene, and the table top gaming scene, good luck finding a girl to take home at the latter that isn't batshiat crazy. At least at a social I can meet 30 new girls, figure out which ones are crazy, and try and get to know the (more) normal ones better.
2013-03-13 01:17:53 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: the801: isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped

do you *seriously* never want to go out and just have fun?  Or maybe, I dunno, get to mutually choose/consent to who you have sex with?  Farking idiot.  For fark's sake, I go out and party quite often, I just happen to have a dick instead of a vagina.  Am I asking for it too, though?


oh yeah, i mean, i knew that might be taken offensively but it wasn't meant to be, like i said, rape is bad and it's the rapist's fault entirely. no one is 'asking to be raped' by going to a frat party and drinking too much. it's just maybe if you're looking to go out and have fun while minimizing the chance of rape then going to rape central and (in most rape cases at frats) getting all trashy on various substances isn't the best way to go about it. it's not that they're asking for it, they're just putting themselves in a known dangerous situation when it comes to rape avoidance. isn't it well known that there's a direct link between frat houses, especially their parties, and rape? such as that they're the rapiest places on college campuses that have a significant greek system? that's far from saying that it should happen or should be ignored or blamed on the raped person, it's just kinda basic harm reduction.

personally i think we should disband the entire greek system, and that all incidents of sexual misconduct at schools should be fully investigated and prosecuted by the established legal system.

and as i think tlars699 said, underage drinking and drug use is illegal but is always present at colleges, and generally openly accepted and ignored.
2013-03-13 01:08:52 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Four women's answer:  "We want it both ways."


Yep. The feminists are just like any other crackpot special interest group - "give us everything we want and f*ck everyone else." NOW, PETA, MADD, etc. just don't have an ounce of credibility, and once lost, it's almost impossible to regain.
2013-03-13 01:01:51 PM
1 votes:
The proper venue for rape accusations is the legal system. Period. Next issue.
2013-03-13 01:00:37 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: I wonder what those who think it should be left to the colleges, think about Sh'ia law as an alternative to the laws by which the rest of us are theoritically governed.

How is it even an *option* to not be held accountable by the regular criminal system?


Because in most areas of the United States, public campuses are considered their own separate jurisdiction above and beyond the local police department. They are under no obligation, usually, to consult them for anything or ask for help.

They also are under the financial control of the colleges themselves, meaning that college administration has the ability to pressure them whether to turn a case over to the local DA for prosecution or not. What you'll find often times is that campus police will discourage rape victims from filing formal reports, or encourage them to bring the offenders to the student/facility disciplinary councils, who will hand down token punishments which don't change a damn thing.
2013-03-13 12:58:10 PM
1 votes:

the801: isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped


do you *seriously* never want to go out and just have fun?  Or maybe, I dunno, get to mutually choose/consent to who you have sex with?  Farking idiot.  For fark's sake, I go out and party quite often, I just happen to have a dick instead of a vagina.  Am I asking for it too, though?
2013-03-13 12:54:41 PM
1 votes:
I wonder what those who think it should be left to the colleges, think about Sh'ia law as an alternative to the laws by which the rest of us are theoritically governed.

How is it even an *option* to not be held accountable by the regular criminal system?
2013-03-13 12:20:03 PM
1 votes:
This pic works on so many different levels...
farm6.static.flickr.com
2013-03-13 12:05:18 PM
1 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com

 But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
 
Displayed 61 of 61 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report