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(The New York Times)   Should the criminal justice system handle rape cases on college campuses or should they be left to the colleges' Greek Councils to handle?   (nytimes.com ) divider line 177
    More: Obvious, criminal justice system, country legal systems, judicial system, colleges, rape victim  
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5233 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 12:36 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 01:22:58 PM  
Frequently subjecting yourself to the criminal justice system accomplishes nothing. There is stigma around being raped that some people don't want it to follow them around. It's very possible that the colleges provide more meaningful punishment than the real criminal justice system AND you may avoid being slut-shamed by a series of police officers, defense attorneys, prosecutors, judges, friends, ect. However, submitting to a college system should not foreclose the possibility of criminal prosecution.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapi st s-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates
 
2013-03-13 01:24:49 PM  
I'm soorry I lived at home and never partied when I was in college.

Looks like there was a whole lot of sexin' and boobies to see.

Damnit.
 
2013-03-13 01:24:51 PM  

squrrelco3: See that man over there, we arrested him for mopery.

[i1.ytimg.com image 320x180]



I came here for a "Revenge of the Nerds" reference, and I leave satisfied.
 
2013-03-13 01:25:44 PM  
ct.fra.bz
 
2013-03-13 01:27:49 PM  

the801: IamAwake: the801: isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped

do you *seriously* never want to go out and just have fun?  Or maybe, I dunno, get to mutually choose/consent to who you have sex with?  Farking idiot.  For fark's sake, I go out and party quite often, I just happen to have a dick instead of a vagina.  Am I asking for it too, though?

oh yeah, i mean, i knew that might be taken offensively but it wasn't meant to be, like i said, rape is bad and it's the rapist's fault entirely. no one is 'asking to be raped' by going to a frat party and drinking too much. it's just maybe if you're looking to go out and have fun while minimizing the chance of rape then going to rape central and (in most rape cases at frats) getting all trashy on various substances isn't the best way to go about it. it's not that they're asking for it, they're just putting themselves in a known dangerous situation when it comes to rape avoidance. isn't it well known that there's a direct link between frat houses, especially their parties, and rape? such as that they're the rapiest places on college campuses that have a significant greek system? that's far from saying that it should happen or should be ignored or blamed on the raped person, it's just kinda basic harm reduction.

personally i think we should disband the entire greek system, and that all incidents of sexual misconduct at schools should be fully investigated and prosecuted by the established legal system.

and as i think tlars699 said, underage drinking and drug use is illegal but is always present at colleges, and generally openly accepted and ignored.


Haha. Good luck trying to disband us. We run the country. The amount our alumni donate to the school isn't worth losing to satisfy the vocal minority that want to see us scoured from the face of the American education system.
 
2013-03-13 01:28:35 PM  

fennix: Frequently subjecting yourself to the criminal justice system accomplishes nothing. There is stigma around being raped that some people don't want it to follow them around. It's very possible that the colleges provide more meaningful punishment than the real criminal justice system AND you may avoid being slut-shamed by a series of police officers, defense attorneys, prosecutors, judges, friends, ect.


The problem is if they are doing that on the basis of his word vs hers, it is inherently unfair.


fennix: However, submitting to a college system should not foreclose the possibility of criminal prosecution.


This.
 
2013-03-13 01:31:21 PM  
The Penn State judicial system seemed to work just fine. What's the problem?
 
2013-03-13 01:32:51 PM  

doczoidberg: Looks like there was a whole lot of sexin' and boobies to see.


yep.  Heck, even I got laid like crazy.
 
2013-03-13 01:33:07 PM  

wjllope: ZMugg: Sometimes it works both ways.

I think I know why this went so badly for him.

"They talk a little more, exchange phone numbers, and she goes back to her dorm. [x] Three weeks later, the man receives word that he is being brought up on charges before the UDC. "

Insert at the [x]: The man did not call her at any time after that night.


Ah, the 'Woman Scorned' defense. That settles it. How do you catch 'Teh Ghey'?

estrogen = distilled evil
 
2013-03-13 01:34:10 PM  
tlars699:
 can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.

or going clubbing with some friends (or alone even), or going to some house party, or a campus bar or music event, or hanging out with friends in whatever way you enjoy which may or may not involve dungeons or dragons, or going to a party / event hosted by an on-campus organization, or a dorm party, or whatever else. if freshmen entering college don't know that frat boys often (not always, i'm sure) have a sense of entitlement when it comes to rape, then that should be mentioned at freshman orientation. also maybe setting some personal rules such as stay at the party, don't go up to some guy's room with him until you know him well. have some friends there who know your intentions watching out for you...

"In 2008, fraternity members photographed themselves in front of the Yale Women's Center with a poster reading, "We Love Yale Sluts." In 2009, a widely e-mailed "preseason scouting report" rated the desirability of about 50 newly arrived freshman women by the number of drinks a man would need in order to have sex with them. And in October, fraternity pledges paraded through a residential quadrangle chanting: "No means yes!" "
 -   http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/nyregion/08yale.html?pagewanted=all

but back to the original topic, schools need to crack down on institutionalized rape such as what often happens in frats, and offenders should be tried and punished by the legal system and expelled from school.
 
2013-03-13 01:38:35 PM  

the801: but back to the original topic, schools need to crack down on institutionalized rape such as what often happens in frats, and offenders should be tried and punished by the legal system and expelled from school.


Do you mean that HazeHer.com is real?

giggity
 
2013-03-13 01:39:34 PM  
tlars699:
You can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.

oh, and ladies and men can dress and preen any way they want, and should never have to take 'rape' into consideration. displaying one's self as a sex object is fun, and can be an invitation for intrest from sexually interested peoples, but certainly in no way is an invitation for any physical molestation or rape or such.

801 out.
 
2013-03-13 01:41:10 PM  
It sounds like buying college textbooks is just the beginning of a four year rape fest.
 
2013-03-13 01:46:11 PM  
the801:

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?
 
2013-03-13 01:46:47 PM  

fennix: Frequently subjecting yourself to the criminal justice system accomplishes nothing. There is stigma around being raped that some people don't want it to follow them around. It's very possible that the colleges provide more meaningful punishment than the real criminal justice system AND you may avoid being slut-shamed by a series of police officers, defense attorneys, prosecutors, judges, friends, ect. However, submitting to a college system should not foreclose the possibility of criminal prosecution.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapi st s-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates


Right.  So, what's in it for the accused?
 
2013-03-13 01:48:55 PM  

tlars699:  They have the right to be not raped, just as I have the right to not be robbed of a laptop that I leave in my unlocked car.


Property is property amirite?
 
2013-03-13 01:49:10 PM  

the801: "In 2008, fraternity members photographed themselves in front of the Yale Women's Center with a poster reading, "We Love Yale Sluts." In 2009, a widely e-mailed "preseason scouting report" rated the desirability of about 50 newly arrived freshman women by the number of drinks a man would need in order to have sex with them. And in October, fraternity pledges paraded through a residential quadrangle chanting: "No means yes!" "
- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/nyregion/08yale.html?pagewanted=all


You left out, "Yes means anal."

I would have expelled every one of those assholes with extreme prejudice.
 
2013-03-13 01:54:24 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: the801:

and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?


I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.
 
2013-03-13 01:54:37 PM  
No.  Privatization of law enforcement and justice proceedings goes against everything that both are supposed to be about.

No.  Women who have actually been raped should have their day in criminal court and, hopefully, see their attacker's nuts nailed to a tree.

No.  Under no circumstances should anybody with a vested interest it quashing criminal cases to assure their cash flow hold any sort of jurisprudence over the criminal prosecution of such cases.

No means no.
 
2013-03-13 01:54:48 PM  

browser_snake: The proper venue for rape accusations is the legal system. Period. Next issue.


See that?  That is a thread winner.  Everything else is moot.  This is why:

Endive Wombat: Should the criminal justice system handle rape cases at Catholic Churches or should they be left to the upper ups at the Catholic Church to handle?


We have a criminal justice system to guard against every individual group's handling of a crime.  It protects victims and the accused to have an ideally neutral, unbiased 3rd party to gather evidence, make arguments, and judge.  Of course, no system is pure, or untainted by prejudice and societal influence.  The weakness also becomes its strength, as this system can adapt.  It's hard to change institutional practices when the institution is protected by tradition (Sh'ia), leadership being non-local (Catholic Church), or moneyed interests (all institutions).
 
2013-03-13 01:55:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: Yeah, why shouldn't colleges, who have a vested interest in making rape cases disappear - both for public image/funding and for protecting certain fraternity members and interests - handle their own rape cases?

It's not like School Administrators and campus police have never been openly hostile, or threatened rape victims to shut their mouth, right?

Or, uh, threatened to expel them?

Or completely, utterly botched rape cases?


Done in one.  Also, appropriate use of the obvious tag is obvious.  A nice idea in theory, but it's way too open to abuse.
 
2013-03-13 01:56:43 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?


Nobody's saying that anyone has a right to molest you because of the way you dress.
However, it's staggeringly naive to think that you don't need to take reasonable precautions to protect yourself.

There's a lot of things we "shouldn't have to do".
- I shouldn't have to lock my car or my house, but I still do
- I shouldn't have to carry a gun in order to protect myself, but I still do
- I shouldn't have to take reasonable precautions to avoid random assaults, muggings, etc, but I still do
 
2013-03-13 01:57:04 PM  
Whatever the answer is should also apply to a certain orthodox sect of a religion that tends to do things in house rather than bring in outsiders.
 
2013-03-13 01:57:10 PM  
I suspect the real reason academic institutions don't want to allow police jurisdiction over sexual assault cases is that they would then get reported and it would make them look bad. College reputation outweighs victim suffering by 1000 to 1 in the eyes of the administration.

My grandma worked as a "dorm mother" in a Catholic college that was kind of a resort deal (beautiful place, academics not so hot).  She got burned out from so many girls coming to her year after year, who experienced date-rape and had abortions. Also apparently there was a lot of cocaine use.

\ahh the 80's
 
2013-03-13 01:57:43 PM  
How the Left would like rape claims to be prosecuted:

Accused richer or more famous than Accuser? Innocent. (save roman polanski!)

Otherwise, Guilty!
 
2013-03-13 02:01:03 PM  

hitlersbrain: How the Left


*sigh*  No, that's not really it.
 
2013-03-13 02:02:06 PM  
I watched something like this play out at UMBC in the mid '90s.  No fraternities, just a systemic pressuring of a victim to handle things in house.  It was, and I assume still is, disgusting.  Any young women reading this, remember: Don't go to a faculty member or administrator.  Lawyer up and take it to real court.
 
2013-03-13 02:02:30 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.


Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?
 
2013-03-13 02:04:48 PM  

the801: tlars699:
 can be completely capable of having fun on a campus, without making yourself a displayed sex object, whilst drinking with friends, and remain safe, and be able to choose which dude you prefer to sleep with. It's called table top gaming, or even a night of Halo.

or going clubbing with some friends (or alone even), or going to some house party, or a campus bar or music event, or hanging out with friends in whatever way you enjoy which may or may not involve dungeons or dragons, or going to a party / event hosted by an on-campus organization, or a dorm party, or whatever else. if freshmen entering college don't know that frat boys often (not always, i'm sure) have a sense of entitlement when it comes to rape, then that should be mentioned at freshman orientation. also maybe setting some personal rules such as stay at the party, don't go up to some guy's room with him until you know him well. have some friends there who know your intentions watching out for you...

"In 2008, fraternity members photographed themselves in front of the Yale Women's Center with a poster reading, "We Love Yale Sluts." In 2009, a widely e-mailed "preseason scouting report" rated the desirability of about 50 newly arrived freshman women by the number of drinks a man would need in order to have sex with them. And in October, fraternity pledges paraded through a residential quadrangle chanting: "No means yes!" "
 -   http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/nyregion/08yale.html?pagewanted=all

but back to the original topic, schools need to crack down on institutionalized rape such as what often happens in frats, and offenders should be tried and punished by the legal system and expelled from school.


So toss the fraternity off campus.  Watch how fast they clean up their bullshiat.
 
2013-03-13 02:07:19 PM  
Criminal for sure.  Obama did his "Dear Colleague" letter to the schools recently where he wants them to change the way they process these cases.  Basically, changing the burden of proof so that after an accusation is made the man is automatically guilty and has to PROVE himself innocent.  That is farking absurd given that half of all rape accusations are false.
 
2013-03-13 02:07:44 PM  

hardinparamedic: Yeah, why shouldn't colleges, who have a vested interest in making rape cases disappear - both for public image/funding and for protecting certain fraternity members and interests - handle their own rape cases?

It's not like School Administrators and campus police have never been openly hostile, or threatened rape victims to shut their mouth, right?

Or, uh, threatened to expel them?

Or completely, utterly botched rape cases?


and ironically, it can also be extremely unfair to those ACCUSED of rape as well.  Had a buddy year ago that dated a girl who unbeknownst to him was MPD.  One night they were playing perfectly consensual kinky games in her dorm room when she "shifted" to an alter that had no knowledge of what was going on or who he was.  After bloody murder was screamed and the cops were called. Buddy found himself in handcuffs and facing some very deep shiat, until she apparently transitionted back to the girl who'd said yes to him in the first place.  That got him released by the cops but not the campus administration.  the "J-board" prosecutor felt that his lack of knowledge about her condition was irrelevant because he should have known that no normal woman would consent to that kind of activity so she MUST have been crazy.  Ergo in her eyes he was guilty of rape anyway.   She got a tame Student Council hearing board to go along with that and he got expelled about 5 credit short of graduation-and he's so worried bout having a sex assualt on his student record that he's never tried to apply anywhere else to finish his degree,
 
2013-03-13 02:10:25 PM  
Remember when your mom said "find a nice, decent girl.  Somebody you really like, and settle down"?  See, if you think past the end of your dick, it IS good advice.   :  )
 
2013-03-13 02:10:52 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?


Male lust has been the DRIVING force in evolution since there have been 2 sexes. Men who find sex uninteresting don't have many kids. A culture full of men who 'behave themselves' won't have many kids either since women certainly don't put much effort towards having sex other than sitting around waiting for a good enough guy to come to them.

So yeah, it IS your problem. If you are attractive, men will lust for you and you will have to take some precautions. If you don't like it, don't be attractive. Personally, I'm tired of the friggin whining. It's like listening to spoiled rich, famous celebrities complaining about too much attention.
 
2013-03-13 02:10:58 PM  
The only people on college campuses that have real world experience are the Archaologists, Anthropologists and Janitors.

I'd trust the decisions of NOBODY else on a campus.
 
2013-03-13 02:12:11 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?


No.  It's just not enough.  You're the one who said, "Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes..."  I'm the one suggesting that you not leave your safety "entirely" in someone else's hands.
 
2013-03-13 02:13:59 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?


Oh, you've caught us! That's right, every single man out there has been taught that it's OK to rape women. All we need is some good, stern lecturing to change our indoctrination. In no way are crimes ever committed by sociopathic individuals who effectively cannot be taught, no matter what you think.

Your implications that "men" are inherently rapists, is, quite frankly, quite offensive.
 
2013-03-13 02:15:15 PM  

bunner: hitlersbrain: How the Left

*sigh*  No, that's not really it.


Really, really.
 
2013-03-13 02:16:43 PM  

hitlersbrain: teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?

Male lust has been the DRIVING force in evolution since there have been 2 sexes. Men who find sex uninteresting don't have many kids. A culture full of men who 'behave themselves' won't have many kids either since women certainly don't put much effort towards having sex other than sitting around waiting for a good enough guy to come to them.

So yeah, it IS your problem. If you are attractive, men will lust for you and you will have to take some precautions. If you don't like it, don't be attractive. Personally, I'm tired of the friggin whining. It's like listening to spoiled rich, famous celebrities complaining about too much attention.


You need to be raped a few times.  You will change your point of view after it happens.
 
2013-03-13 02:16:47 PM  

lordaction: Criminal for sure.  Obama did his "Dear Colleague" letter to the schools recently where he wants them to change the way they process these cases.  Basically, changing the burden of proof so that after an accusation is made the man is automatically guilty and has to PROVE himself innocent.  That is farking absurd given that half of all rape accusations are false.


images.wikia.com

lordactionis a homophobic, far right wing, possibly MRA FARK poster who - among other gems - thinks that Gays join the scouts to molest children in secret.

Anything this person says should be laughed at.
 
2013-03-13 02:18:35 PM  

hitlersbrain: teenytinycornteeth: I shouldn't have to change the way I live my life because men are unable to control their animal instincts to jump on and have sex with everything that arouses them.  That is the MAN'S problem, not mine.  I could walk down the street naked and it still wouldn't give a man the right to touch or have sex with me.  Telling women to cover up and dress demurely and not go to parties and not drink will probably stop a tiny percentage of rapes but I've got a super cool idea: instead of "educating" women on how to change their lives to avoid getting raped, how about teaching men to stop treating women like their property to do with what they wish?  Or is that too much to ask?

Male lust has been the DRIVING force in evolution since there have been 2 sexes. Men who find sex uninteresting don't have many kids. A culture full of men who 'behave themselves' won't have many kids either since women certainly don't put much effort towards having sex other than sitting around waiting for a good enough guy to come to them.

So yeah, it IS your problem. If you are attractive, men will lust for you and you will have to take some precautions. If you don't like it, don't be attractive. Personally, I'm tired of the friggin whining. It's like listening to spoiled rich, famous celebrities complaining about too much attention.


And by the way, in the armed forces, more men are raped (in sheer numbers) than women.  It's not about sex, it's about violence and power.
 
2013-03-13 02:19:07 PM  
Wow..............
Like when is the law not enforced due to some douche claiming 'this is university property, so that means we are outside of the law being able to enforce the law that prevents people being gang raped and sodomized repeatedly".
Same goes for grade school where abuse is a crime as well.
Same goes for your workplace.
fark it, same goes for the bus station or airport.................

/Fun fact: If you invite someone onto your property, you can chop off their head because they willing entered and you can never be charged with a crime, as it is your private property. Said no legal system anywhere(Florida is a farked up exception of corruption to the rule of law).
 
2013-03-13 02:19:42 PM  

hardinparamedic: the801: and i so don't want to sound 'blame the victim' here, 'cause rape is bad and rapists are responsible, but maybe "hey lets go to a frat party tonight! they have tons of booze, which we're mostly pretty inexperienced with, and they usually have some great drugs, and they're mostly good looking guys we would get to party with, and our late-adolescent sexual desires are aroused by the idea of partying with these good looking guys who will pay a lot of attention to us and give us free booze and drinks. and we sure don't want to have sex tonight, just a good time. par-tay!" isn't a wise choice when looking to avoid getting raped?

Great job sounding like "Not blaming the victim" when you said "If only those molded temptresses weren't there, the men wouldn't have gotten rapey!"


For certain definitions of rape.

If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.

/seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?
 
2013-03-13 02:22:45 PM  

DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?


Might have to do with the fact that rape is a crime of power and control being generally accepted by the psychiatric community at large as the motivation, and not because the guy hasn't had his balls drained in the last few weeks.

DerAppie: If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.


Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.
 
2013-03-13 02:23:26 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: It's not about sex, it's about violence and power.


So stop acting harmless and powerless.
 
2013-03-13 02:24:13 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: BarkingUnicorn: teenytinycornteeth: the801:


If you want to leave your safety entirely in someone else's hands, go ahead.

Because asking men to change their views of what they can do to women is just too big of a task, eh?



Banks shouldn't have vaults. We should just ask thieves to stop stealing.

Weapons of all types should be allowed everywhere. We should just ask murderers to stop murdering.

Websites shouldn't have passwords. We should just ask hackers to stop stealing personal information.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a crime-free utopia, so we need to take basic precautions against crime. I'm not saying that rape should continue to be praised as it is in some social circles today, but protecting yourself and discouraging rapists are not mutually exclusive.
 
2013-03-13 02:25:33 PM  

hardinparamedic: DerAppie: /seriously, why are men responsible while the woman is seen as the victim?

Might have to do with the fact that rape is a crime of power and control being generally accepted by the psychiatric community at large as the motivation, and not because the guy hasn't had his balls drained in the last few weeks.

DerAppie: If an 19 year old female goes to a party and has an undefined number of beers and then accepts the offer for sex from one of the male attending the party (who is also drunk) she doesn't get to claim rape as far as I'm concerned. Assuming no person slipped her something without her knowledge ofcourse. Any defense against this kind if "rape" would be: "But I was drunk to therefore she raped me." But since you'd get laughed out of the courtroom all the way to jail we'll never see that happen.

Maybe, and this is JUST a maybe here, knowing that the legal system is stacked against you to begin with, you shouldn't go fark random drunk girls who your knowledge of them is that they've giggled for twenty minutes over their beer.

I know. Keeping it in your pants is such a WEIRD concept.


So I've been told by several women.
 
2013-03-13 02:30:12 PM  

hardinparamedic: lordaction: Criminal for sure.  Obama did his "Dear Colleague" letter to the schools recently where he wants them to change the way they process these cases.  Basically, changing the burden of proof so that after an accusation is made the man is automatically guilty and has to PROVE himself innocent.  That is farking absurd given that half of all rape accusations are false.

[images.wikia.com image 314x264]

lordactionis a homophobic, far right wing, possibly MRA FARK poster who - among other gems - thinks that Gays join the scouts to molest children in secret.

Anything this person says should be laughed at.


When you don't have facts I guess you have to attack the individual.
 
2013-03-13 02:32:40 PM  

lordaction: When you don't have facts I guess you have to attack the individual.


When the individual is an absurd liar with a history of posting things that would make even the most simple of person laugh in their face, and their profile, up until last week was filled with bizarre religious scripture, yes.
 
2013-03-13 02:37:18 PM  

the801: it's not that they're asking for it, they're just putting themselves in a known dangerous situation when it comes to rape avoidance.


Did you realize that every time you get in a car you are knowingly exposing yourself to risk of death? Actually, getting in the shower is dangerous too. But - hey - you're right. Women should just stop going to parties because you never know when someone is going to drug the punch.

And, while were at it. Women should never do anything ever because rape happens anywhere. You can get raped going grocery shopping or taking the bus - so women I guess should just die if they don't want to be raped because there is no such thing as a rape free zone.
 
2013-03-13 02:37:33 PM  
Women who say, "It's men's  problem... I shouldn't have to change..." remind me of the granny who totaled my car years ago.

I was driving home from work at 5 p.m. when her oncoming car turned suddenly right across my path; no turn signal, no yielding, nothing behind me for a mile.  She just wanted to go where and when she wanted to go.  I stood on the brakes but there was no avoiding the crash.  Her front driver's corner took out my radiator.  First words out of her mouth as she got out of her car were,

"Didn't you see me turning?"

/It was her third DWI in 18 months.  She got six months in jail.
 
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