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(DeaconPedro.com)   Watching the Conclave? As you do, consider these interesting stats on the electors. Who knew the Catholics had gerrymandering and deck-stacking?   (deaconpedro.com) divider line 11
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4870 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 12:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 10:16:07 AM  
3 votes:

Nabb1: If by "reform," you mean major changes in doctrine, I don't think that will happen. If you mean structural and institutional reform, I am holding out hope that they elect someone with the strength and charisma to clean up the recent corruption scandals and resolve the long-standing issues surrounding the sex abuse cover-ups, and I guess as long as I'm making a wish list, reforming the priesthood and increasing the role of women in Church leadership would be nice.


As noted, I'm not Catholic, but my wife is, and we raised our kids catholic, so I've had a pretty good look at how things go.

As far as cleaning up scandals, I think the bigger problem is why guys go into the priesthood in the first place.

In many poor countries, becoming a priest is a socially exalted way for men to escape poverty.  Hence, the number of foreign-born priests flooding USA parishes.  These men don't necessarily fervently believe the doctrine, instead it's a ticket out.  And frankly, many of them alienate Americans.  I've seen several who are difficult to understand in their homilies, and they're not especially effective at family counseling and other important tasks, simply because they can't relate, and their English is not fully fluent.

Seems to me like a lot of priests in the USA have issues/demons that they're trying to suppress, like homosexuality and pedophilia.  I'm not equating the two by any means, but if you're a believer, going into the priesthood can be seen as a way to isolate yourself from temptation, and a way to pray away your demons.  For these cases, the church is going to have to clean house of pedophiles, which means a several parish priests would suddenly disappear, probably without explanation, or with a BS excuse.

And then the Church would have to at least internally address the number of gays in their ranks.  They need to reconcile the difference between The Church's view on gays vs. the reality of practicing gays and lesbians within The Church.  Are they welcome or not?

Increasing the role of women?  I just don't see it happening.
2013-03-13 10:53:07 AM  
2 votes:
Complaining that there are a lot of Italian Catholics is like complaining there are a lot of Koreans working for Samsung or Germans at Mercedes Benz.

It's their company.
2013-03-13 10:24:19 AM  
2 votes:

Earguy:
In many poor countries, becoming a priest is a socially exalted way for men to escape poverty.  Hence, the number of foreign-born priests flooding USA parishes.  These men don't necessarily fervently believe the doctrine, instead it's a ticket out.  And frankly, many of them alienate Americans.  I've seen several who are difficult to understand in their homilies, and they're not especially effective at family counseling and other important tasks, simply because they can't relate, and their English is not fully fluent.


That's one of those things that would have NEVER occurred to me, but makes sense once I hear it. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.
2013-03-13 01:02:25 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: If by "reform," you mean major changes in doctrine, I don't think that will happen.  If you mean structural and institutional reform, I am holding out hope that they elect someone with the strength and charisma to clean up the recent corruption scandals and resolve the long-standing issues surrounding the sex abuse cover-ups, and I guess as long as I'm making a wish list,


It's not gonna happen.  That ship sailed centuries ago, with the Reformation.  Prior to that era, the Church was the Church, and it had to find ways to make itself appealing to everyone.  This meant finding ways to equalize their rites with the existing worship systems, to make the shift easier on people; this is why Easter is in the spring at the time of the fertility festivals (and why there's eggs and bunnies, even today), and why Christmas is at the winter solstice (or close enough).

Then the rise of Protestantism created a world where there are hundreds of schismatic sects of Christianity, each staking its own claim.  Catholicism is a big one, but it's just one sect.  They aren't trying to recover the Christians of other sects.  They've written them off, as well as everyone else.  They only people they're concerned with are already Catholics.  As such, they have NO reason to amend their policies or stances.  None.  Change to anything suggests that the Church was wrong about it before, and that's an unacceptable position.

There's no way they'll elect a true reformative Pope.  Because if they do, it'll just create another schism, with the conservatives going one way and electing their own pope and the reformers going the other.  Even when it comes down to the kiddy diddling; the most anyone should hope for is that they'll take a firmer stance on punishing it.  There is no way the Catholic Church will let their priests be punished by secular laws if they can avoid it.

Which is why the Catholic Church is on the way out.  They're on shaky ground, but any move to fortify their standing will just cause greater issues.
2013-03-13 12:51:03 PM  
1 votes:
"Who knew the Catholics had gerrymandering and deck-stacking?"

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together?

It's essentially a non-official global theocracy; of course it's going to suffer from the same sorts of political corruption that the United States democratic republic does. Only this is worse, because sort of like a monarchy, they believe that their appointments are divinely-inspired.
2013-03-13 12:32:52 PM  
1 votes:
Why wouldn't they? They are already guilty of covering up the largest organized pederasty scandal in the world.

Name one farking bishop who picked up a phone and called the police and said come pick up this sick bastige before I forget my vows not to harm another human?

No?
None?

right.
Cover up.
/All guilty
2013-03-13 12:03:26 PM  
1 votes:

Therion: Who knew the Catholics had gerrymandering and deck-stacking?

Anyone who has paid the least bit of attention to European history?


And been talked about plenty, and with better pictures than the one from the link.

http://www.pewforum.org/Christian/Catholic/Geography-of-the-Conclave .a spx

www.pewforum.org

Which gives some actual perspective of relative power compared to population.
2013-03-13 11:51:31 AM  
1 votes:
Who knew the Catholics had gerrymandering and deck-stacking?

Anyone who has paid the least bit of attention to European history?
2013-03-13 10:27:58 AM  
1 votes:

nekom: Earguy:
In many poor countries, becoming a priest is a socially exalted way for men to escape poverty.  Hence, the number of foreign-born priests flooding USA parishes.  These men don't necessarily fervently believe the doctrine, instead it's a ticket out.  And frankly, many of them alienate Americans.  I've seen several who are difficult to understand in their homilies, and they're not especially effective at family counseling and other important tasks, simply because they can't relate, and their English is not fully fluent.


That's one of those things that would have NEVER occurred to me, but makes sense once I hear it. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.


Cool.  I had a priest explain that one to me.
2013-03-13 10:00:10 AM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: I have to think part of Benedict XVI's thought process in retiring was recognizing those issues have to be addressed, and not by an aged Pope who lacks the energy to do it.


Either that, or he just had an "I'm too old for this shiat" moment in general. If I recall correctly, when he was chosen it was pretty clear that they wanted an interim pope. I don't think anyone expected him to resign, but they didn't expect him to have the kind of reign JP2 had either. So maybe this time around they'll pick someone more interesting at least.
2013-03-13 09:12:55 AM  
1 votes:
Italy has 28. Actually, Italy has 49 cardinals, except that only 28 of them are under 80 years old.

The significance of "under 80 years old," I learned, is that once you're over 80 you don't get a vote.

I'm not Catholic, but this whole process is fascinating to me.  All things considered, people hoping for a liberalization of the church under a new pope probably won't be happy with the outcome.  I just don't see "the system" allowing a reformer to be elected.
 
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