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(News 10 ABC Sacramento)   So ban on assault weapons in California supposedly oppresses people of the Sikh religion says man suing the state   (news10.net) divider line 88
    More: Unlikely, Yuba City, Sikhs, Sikh religion, gun controls  
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5217 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 11:12:25 AM
At least they didn't call them clips.
 
2013-03-13 11:15:15 AM

ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenselessso maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.


Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.
 
2013-03-13 11:16:43 AM

SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.

All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.


*this*

And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for.  Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.

HailRobonia: All religions believe that what they do is virtuous. There is no reason to believe that Sikhs behave any better than any other religion.


Although the plural of anecdote is not data... I think the response to the temple shooting would heavily imply that you're wrong.  I'm sure there are practicing Sikhs who are assholes.  But *of course* the religion/culture you're raised in can affect your behavior as an adult.  Of course that's not a guarantee.
 
2013-03-13 11:20:18 AM
I'm inclined to suggest that the lads up in Surrey stick to daggers and chair-legs. Bringing guns into the matter simply isn't cricket.
 
2013-03-13 11:24:42 AM
Can we have a SIKH tag?
 
2013-03-13 11:27:45 AM

Russ1642: MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.

You're from Surrey? I'm so sorry.


/hangs head in shame.
 
2013-03-13 11:35:14 AM
ACLU's heads explode.
 
2013-03-13 11:43:36 AM
So ban on assault weapons in California supposedly oppresses people of the Sikh religion says white man suing the state
 
2013-03-13 11:44:10 AM

This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.


Huh?
 
2013-03-13 11:49:18 AM

Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.


Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?
 
2013-03-13 11:50:26 AM

WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.


I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.
 
2013-03-13 11:52:25 AM
Religion I can believe in.
 
2013-03-13 11:58:18 AM

Molavian: WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.

I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.


According to my friend who attends that temple, no more than before. They see the shooting as an anomaly and don't feel that they should start doing anything different.
 
2013-03-13 12:12:58 PM

MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.


How's the curry?
 
2013-03-13 12:14:23 PM

msimon8: steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Conversely, is there a good way to be a fanatic?


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-13 12:16:21 PM

illannoyin: Missing pic from previous post...

[i.imgur.com image 511x428]

Wassat? it's a dagger not a sword?

[gndn.files.wordpress.com image 749x655]

Got you covered too!



It would have been better without diCaprio.
 
2013-03-13 12:22:20 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.

Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?


If those are the choices, put me down for "rich".

You never know, right?
 
2013-03-13 12:25:47 PM
I'm not coing in to work today.

I'm Sikh
 
2013-03-13 12:29:36 PM

Old_Chief_Scott: StoPPeRmobile: Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.

Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?

If those are the choices, put me down for "rich".

You never know, right?


It will be found out in the background check.
 
2013-03-13 12:32:57 PM

MadSkillz: Russ1642: MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.

You're from Surrey? I'm so sorry.

/hangs head in shame.


I grew up in Langley. We had two things going for us - good weed and not being Surrey.
 
2013-03-13 12:42:46 PM

Joe Blowme: But what is the purpose of gun controll? I've been told its about protecting the innocent victims of gun violence but there are worse things out there killing our children. Its like focusing on that splinter in your hand and ignoring the brains leaking out your ear because you hate splinters so much. I guess we just have to agree to disagree


Don't be so naive...it's clearly an international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of your precious bodily fluids.
 
2013-03-13 12:42:50 PM

steve-0: What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


He probably got tired of being the poor guy always bringing a knife to a gun fight.
 
2013-03-13 12:43:49 PM

CitizenjaQ: msimon8: steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Conversely, is there a good way to be a fanatic?

[img.photobucket.com image 229x320]


Touché
 
2013-03-13 12:46:36 PM

SpectroBoy: This guy isn't just a Sikh, he is a Sikh asshat.

Sikh are required (by tradition / religion) to carry a Kirpan at all times. It is a ceremonial sword or dagger.


The "ceremonial" bit is very new.

I am no expert but I have worked with SIkh's.  Some of them say it can easily be interpreted as the weapon of the day.

Either way bending arms laws doesn't fit within the "reasonable" accomidatiosn we make for religions.

/which are BS in my opinion anyway.
 
2013-03-13 01:22:13 PM

illannoyin: Missing pic from previous post...

[i.imgur.com image 511x428]

Wassat? it's a dagger not a sword?

[gndn.files.wordpress.com image 749x655]

Got you covered too!


Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
 
2013-03-13 01:37:40 PM

steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.
 
2013-03-13 02:07:24 PM
jso2897:  you still have the "slippery - slope" argument, which, of course, ANYBODY can always use for ANYTHING.

Did you just use the slippery slope argument to argue against using the slippery slope argument?
 
2013-03-13 02:12:33 PM

ACunningPlan: This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.

Huh?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

Ghandi thought the Sikhs would roll over and die for political purposes. The Sikhs had other ideas.
 
2013-03-13 02:26:05 PM
Anyone who claims that they need to be armed for religious purposes should never be allowed access to a weapon, ever.

/imho
 
2013-03-13 02:46:22 PM

leonel: steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.

I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.


I've heard of Jews  eating bacon, but they tend not to be very orthodox.

/not sure a bolted kirpan would meet the requirements of the religion   for more traditionalist Sikhs
 
2013-03-13 02:47:38 PM

SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.

All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.


That saying about "there's one in every crowd" rings true.
 
2013-03-13 03:11:08 PM

steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"?


Are they really allowed to take them through courtroom or school metal detectors, on planes, etc.?
 
2013-03-13 03:20:14 PM

legion_of_doo: leonel: steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.

I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.

I've heard of Jews  eating bacon, but they tend not to be very orthodox.

/not sure a bolted kirpan would meet the requirements of the religion   for more traditionalist Sikhs


Well yeah, traditionalists tend to be inflexible in that respect, but I do think the bolted kirpan is the more common thing just to get around regular rules about weapons.
 
2013-03-13 05:35:14 PM

This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

Ghandi thought the Sikhs would roll over and die for political purposes. The Sikhs had other ideas.


Oh for goodness sake, why didn't you just say the Golden Temple incident?  However, your parallel is still irrelevant.  The poster said one of the basic tenets of the Sikh faith was defending the defenceless. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure an unarmed person falls into the defenceless category, especially if said shooting is done by their bodyguards.  Having said that - IIRC - one of the shooters was actually shot upon being arrested arrest; living and dying by the Kirpan in question, I guess.
 
2013-03-13 06:47:53 PM

WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.

Molavian: I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.


Whiskey, wrong, Molavian, right. Their local gun community came out to support the crap out of them after that shiat happened, free training, etc.  Believe it or not, a lot of bitter Christians clinging to their guns and bibles have no problem helping out the mud people when they really need it.  A LOT of Sikhs saw the writing on the wall and started arming up after it, in Wisconsin and everywhere else.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for. Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.

Did you move?  Detroit actually has a ton of Sikhs around.  But, you know, they're religious and probably don't hang out in the places you normally do.  We've got a few here at the med school, a bunch over on main campus, I see a bunch in Ann Arbor every time I go... etc.
 
2013-03-13 08:13:34 PM

ThatGuyOverThere: StreetlightInTheGhetto: And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for. Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.
Did you move? Detroit actually has a ton of Sikhs around. But, you know, they're religious and probably don't hang out in the places you normally do. We've got a few here at the med school, a bunch over on main campus, I see a bunch in Ann Arbor every time I go... etc.


Likely a social circle thing I suppose.  My best friend growing up in the suburbs was Hindi but definitely didn't have any Sikhs in class with me all through senior year.  Nobody in my (admittedly small) college major either.  So maybe I'm underestimating the population for that reason (reason being happenstance I guess; Probably the same reason I tend  to overestimate the SE Michigan Chaldean population.  Perception is no substitute for data, I suppose, so mea culpa there).
 
2013-03-14 10:49:45 AM

give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?


He's aware that's the traditional view; he just has a different view of the religious duty. The full complaint is apparently here.

Russ1642: This is perfect. He's just showing that if you use religion as an exception then you open legal loopholes that you can drive a tank through. Literally. "My religion requires that I be in a travelling fortress."


Which would seem to run aground on Reynolds v. United States... except that there's also Second Amendment factors in play.
 
2013-03-15 12:23:03 AM
If they arent going to resepect the right to bear arms, which is explicitely written into the bill of rights, why would you think they are going to respect freedom of religion which is SORTA written into the bill of rights through the no establishment clause?
 
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