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(News 10 ABC Sacramento)   So ban on assault weapons in California supposedly oppresses people of the Sikh religion says man suing the state   (news10.net ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Yuba City, Sikhs, Sikh religion, gun controls  
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5243 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 10:03 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 09:08:52 AM  
Praise the Waheguru and pass the ammunition!
 
2013-03-13 09:48:53 AM  
Uh.  No.

Thanks for trying.  We've some lovely parting gifts for you on the way out.
 
2013-03-13 10:09:43 AM  
Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.
 
2013-03-13 10:11:35 AM  
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
 
2013-03-13 10:12:07 AM  
They can still use bombs...religiously

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-03-13 10:12:37 AM  
A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?
 
2013-03-13 10:13:20 AM  

steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.


do512blog.com
 
2013-03-13 10:13:33 AM  

steve-0: This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.


Well, maybe.

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.
 
2013-03-13 10:13:57 AM  

give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?


The holy text is a living document.

/at least until I put 30 rounds into it
 
2013-03-13 10:14:21 AM  

give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?


I'll give him some credit for updating his religious beliefs for the 21st century.
 
2013-03-13 10:14:46 AM  
Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.
 
2013-03-13 10:15:44 AM  

steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.


Conversely, is there a good way to be a fanatic?
 
2013-03-13 10:15:59 AM  
Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.
 
2013-03-13 10:16:00 AM  
Does it really matter when there's only ever two of them at any given time?
 
2013-03-13 10:17:14 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: steve-0: This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Well, maybe.

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.


That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.
 
2013-03-13 10:17:21 AM  
This guy isn't just a Sikh, he is a Sikh asshat.

Sikh are required (by tradition / religion) to carry a Kirpan at all times. It is a ceremonial sword or dagger.

from teh intrawebs:
To Sikhs the Kirpan is religiously symbolic of their spirituality and the constant struggle of good and morality over the forces of evil and injustice, both on a individual as well as social level. The usage of the Kirpan in this religious context is clearly indicated in the Sikh holy scriptures (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) and wearing it is meant to inspire a Sikh in their daily life;

Oddly enough the ancient holy scripture remain agnostic on the whole AR-15 issue.

This guy is just a dickwad who wants to carry an AR-15 and thinks he found a religious loophole.

The lesson I draw from this is that NO laws in a secular country should have religious exceptions except Rastafarians mon.
 
2013-03-13 10:18:13 AM  

steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.


Yeah, here in California Sikh kids are indeed allowed to wear a kirpan on campus. If one tries to replace it with a rifle and high capacity magazine "because religion!!!" it would not end well. Kid would probably be shot by one of the kids carrying illegally, of which there are plenty in some areas.

/then they'd steal his holy assault rifle
 
2013-03-13 10:18:34 AM  

steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


I was just funnin' ya.
 
2013-03-13 10:19:30 AM  

Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.


All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.
 
2013-03-13 10:21:46 AM  
I imagine this will cause a lot of confusion in GOP circles
 
2013-03-13 10:22:18 AM  
I think that he's just trying to save some time for himself, by clinging to guns *and* religion at the same time.
 
2013-03-13 10:24:16 AM  

steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


Maybe he finally got around to watching Raiders and figured a knife might not be the most up to date weapon for defense.
 
2013-03-13 10:25:46 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: steve-0: This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Well, maybe.

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenselessso maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.


That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.
 
2013-03-13 10:26:05 AM  

Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.


How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?
 
2013-03-13 10:26:46 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?



Endanger even!
 
2013-03-13 10:27:58 AM  

SpectroBoy: This guy isn't just a Sikh, he is a Sikh asshat.

Sikh are required (by tradition / religion) to carry a Kirpan at all times. It is a ceremonial sword or dagger.

from teh intrawebs:
To Sikhs the Kirpan is religiously symbolic of their spirituality and the constant struggle of good and morality over the forces of evil and injustice, both on a individual as well as social level. The usage of the Kirpan in this religious context is clearly indicated in the Sikh holy scriptures (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) and wearing it is meant to inspire a Sikh in their daily life;

Oddly enough the ancient holy scripture remain agnostic on the whole AR-15 issue.

This guy is just a dickwad who wants to carry an AR-15 and thinks he found a religious loophole.

The lesson I draw from this is that NO laws in a secular country should have religious exceptions except Rastafarians mon.


This is perfect. He's just showing that if you use religion as an exception then you open legal loopholes that you can drive a tank through. Literally. "My religion requires that I be in a travelling fortress."
 
2013-03-13 10:28:43 AM  
I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.
 
2013-03-13 10:28:51 AM  
It would oppress everyone who lives under the protection of the US constitution, regardless of religion or lack there of
 
2013-03-13 10:30:42 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?


Are you questioning the wisdom and research of the California lawmakers who authored the ban?
 
2013-03-13 10:33:59 AM  

MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.


You're from Surrey? I'm so sorry.
 
2013-03-13 10:34:42 AM  
Kirpans don't kill, people kill.
 
2013-03-13 10:36:44 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?


You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.
 
2013-03-13 10:39:33 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.


In fact, I am attempting to practice a human skill known as "sarcasm", where false statements are issued with a specific inflection or wording to make obvious the fact that the speaker or writer actually holds a position contrary to those expressed in the stated or written words. Unfortunately, I have yet to master this methodology.
 
2013-03-13 10:40:47 AM  

give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?




No, it's actually a 9MM pistol...

/Personally I think he's full of shiate
//I know it's totally different jeez just enjoy the comedy
 
2013-03-13 10:43:30 AM  

illannoyin: give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?

No, it's actually a 9MM pistol...

/Personally I think he's full of shiate
//I know it's totally different jeez just enjoy the comedy


Of course he's full of shiat, but so were the guys asking for special considerations to pack daggers with them all over the place.
 
2013-03-13 10:47:30 AM  

Joe Blowme: It would oppress everyone who lives under the protection of the US constitution, regardless of religion or lack there of


I don't know if I agree with you about that, but I do think we can agree that "technical" gun bans are not the way to go. I am FAR more concerned about who gets their hands on guns, and how, than I am about what kind of guns they get their hands on.
I know people I would trust with a tommy-gun in a nursery school - and people I wouldn't trust with a .22 Derringer in a biker bar.
 
2013-03-13 10:48:24 AM  
Missing pic from previous post...

i.imgur.com

Wassat? it's a dagger not a sword?

gndn.files.wordpress.com

Got you covered too!
 
2013-03-13 10:49:33 AM  

SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.

All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.


there have been Sikh extremists & terrorists, honor killings, and the like.

it wouldn't be correct to assume any group doesn't include a lunatic  s ide.
 
2013-03-13 10:49:36 AM  

Dimensio: Unfortunately, I have yet to master this methodology.


I think that this medium prevents the effective use of sarcasm unless the length of the post allows it to border on satire or proceed on to parody. I know that there have been several international conferences which have attempted to provide the internet with a special font or other methodology to convey sarcasm effectively. If it weren't for the French, I think that the Lausanne Manifesto could have succeeded.

F*cking French.
 
2013-03-13 10:51:31 AM  
was that headline a sentence?
 
2013-03-13 10:51:45 AM  
images.sodahead.com
 
2013-03-13 10:53:41 AM  

jso2897: Joe Blowme: It would oppress everyone who lives under the protection of the US constitution, regardless of religion or lack there of

I don't know if I agree with you about that, but I do think we can agree that "technical" gun bans are not the way to go. I am FAR more concerned about who gets their hands on guns, and how, than I am about what kind of guns they get their hands on.
I know people I would trust with a tommy-gun in a nursery school - and people I wouldn't trust with a .22 Derringer in a biker bar.


I would thin that if the goal is to reduce death there are bigger holes in teh damn to fix first, this leads me to believe it is not really about the children or saving lives because we continue to ignore the larger killers of innocent people in favor of doing feel good measures that only affect law abiding citizens and further infringe on the 2nd. If we dont need more than a 10 round clip why to wwe need a vehicle that can go over the speed limit when speed kills way more that guns? Or drunk driving, why does everyone not have a breath start in their car? WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!??!
 
2013-03-13 10:54:17 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: steve-0: This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Well, maybe.

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.


All religions believe that what they do is virtuous. There is no reason to believe that Sikhs behave any better than any other religion.
 
2013-03-13 10:57:26 AM  
Not a Sikh, but I have had extended conversations with a few of them about the need to carry their kirpan - their ceremonial knife.

The general consensus is that they are symbolic only - many kirpans are actually glued into their scabbard, or welded, or are so small as to be completely useless in combat.  Instead, they're meant to be a physical reminder of the commandment that you must actively prevent violence being done to others, and you may need to use violence to ensure that happens.  It's not as backwards as it sounds, basically it only authorizes violence in the cases where you're protecting others (or yourselves) and another party has already become violent.

There's also deeper stuff having to do with mental fortitude to defend against injustice and strike down lies, and other non-physical aspects, sort of like a mentally-armed political activist. By itself though, doesn't represent a real weapon, only a willingness to implement those ideals.  It's interesting because even in the US, they're allowed to - for example - fly with their kirpans, though there are ~some~ restrictions, and douchebag TSA agents still reserve the right to confiscate them.

There's apparently nothing in the religion that indicates they need to be actually literally armed with weapons capable of death of others at all times.
 
2013-03-13 10:59:42 AM  

quietwalker: Not a Sikh, but I have had extended conversations with a few of them about the need to carry their kirpan - their ceremonial knife.

The general consensus is that they are symbolic only - many kirpans are actually glued into their scabbard, or welded, or are so small as to be completely useless in combat.  Instead, they're meant to be a physical reminder of the commandment that you must actively prevent violence being done to others, and you may need to use violence to ensure that happens.  It's not as backwards as it sounds, basically it only authorizes violence in the cases where you're protecting others (or yourselves) and another party has already become violent.

There's also deeper stuff having to do with mental fortitude to defend against injustice and strike down lies, and other non-physical aspects, sort of like a mentally-armed political activist. By itself though, doesn't represent a real weapon, only a willingness to implement those ideals.  It's interesting because even in the US, they're allowed to - for example - fly with their kirpans, though there are ~some~ restrictions, and douchebag TSA agents still reserve the right to confiscate them.

There's apparently nothing in the religion that indicates they need to be actually literally armed with weapons capable of death of others at all times.


No need for the religion to state it, the constitution does it for them. Its some where between the 1st and 3rd amendments
 
2013-03-13 11:01:57 AM  
Is there any article about "assault rifles" and "high capacity magazines" that isn't trolltastic or at the very least significantly uninformed?
 
2013-03-13 11:04:48 AM  

Joe Blowme: jso2897: Joe Blowme: It would oppress everyone who lives under the protection of the US constitution, regardless of religion or lack there of

I don't know if I agree with you about that, but I do think we can agree that "technical" gun bans are not the way to go. I am FAR more concerned about who gets their hands on guns, and how, than I am about what kind of guns they get their hands on.
I know people I would trust with a tommy-gun in a nursery school - and people I wouldn't trust with a .22 Derringer in a biker bar.

I would thin that if the goal is to reduce death there are bigger holes in teh damn to fix first, this leads me to believe it is not really about the children or saving lives because we continue to ignore the larger killers of innocent people in favor of doing feel good measures that only affect law abiding citizens and further infringe on the 2nd. If we dont need more than a 10 round clip why to wwe need a vehicle that can go over the speed limit when speed kills way more that guns? Or drunk driving, why does everyone not have a breath start in their car? WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!??!


Well, you need to support your paradigm that ALL gun control is bad, and that only bad, unreasonable people support any form of it - so you will only dialogue with or accept as legitimate "gun control advocates" of the "Diane Feinstein" mold, and simply refuse to talk to, or even acknowledge the existence of the far more numerous advocates of a reasonable approach, such as myself. Of course, I do suspect that there is really no form of any kind of gun control that you would ever accept as legitimate, because after all other arguments are exhausted, you still have the "slippery - slope" argument, which, of course, ANYBODY can always use for ANYTHING.
 
2013-03-13 11:09:38 AM  

jso2897: Joe Blowme: jso2897: Joe Blowme: It would oppress everyone who lives under the protection of the US constitution, regardless of religion or lack there of

I don't know if I agree with you about that, but I do think we can agree that "technical" gun bans are not the way to go. I am FAR more concerned about who gets their hands on guns, and how, than I am about what kind of guns they get their hands on.
I know people I would trust with a tommy-gun in a nursery school - and people I wouldn't trust with a .22 Derringer in a biker bar.

I would thin that if the goal is to reduce death there are bigger holes in teh damn to fix first, this leads me to believe it is not really about the children or saving lives because we continue to ignore the larger killers of innocent people in favor of doing feel good measures that only affect law abiding citizens and further infringe on the 2nd. If we dont need more than a 10 round clip why to wwe need a vehicle that can go over the speed limit when speed kills way more that guns? Or drunk driving, why does everyone not have a breath start in their car? WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!??!

Well, you need to support your paradigm that ALL gun control is bad, and that only bad, unreasonable people support any form of it - so you will only dialogue with or accept as legitimate "gun control advocates" of the "Diane Feinstein" mold, and simply refuse to talk to, or even acknowledge the existence of the far more numerous advocates of a reasonable approach, such as myself. Of course, I do suspect that there is really no form of any kind of gun control that you would ever accept as legitimate, because after all other arguments are exhausted, you still have the "slippery - slope" argument, which, of course, ANYBODY can always use for ANYTHING.



But what is the purpose of gun controll? I've been told its about protecting the innocent victims of gun violence but there are worse things out there killing our children. Its like focusing on that splinter in your hand and ignoring the brains leaking out your ear because you hate splinters so much. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
 
2013-03-13 11:10:32 AM  
There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.
 
2013-03-13 11:12:22 AM  

legion_of_doo: SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.
All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.
And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.
there have been Sikh extremists & terrorists, honor killings, and the like.
it wouldn't be correct to assume any group doesn't include a lunatic  side.


Very true, although in my experience Sikhs tend to have a higher percentage of the good ones than other religions
.
FTFA: "Khalsa said if assault weapons were legalized in the state, the loss of life in mass shootings, like the one in Wisconsin, could be minimized."

The religious version of arming teachers, etc. in schools
.
.
 
2013-03-13 11:12:25 AM  
At least they didn't call them clips.
 
2013-03-13 11:15:15 AM  

ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenselessso maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.


Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.
 
2013-03-13 11:16:43 AM  

SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.

All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.


*this*

And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for.  Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.

HailRobonia: All religions believe that what they do is virtuous. There is no reason to believe that Sikhs behave any better than any other religion.


Although the plural of anecdote is not data... I think the response to the temple shooting would heavily imply that you're wrong.  I'm sure there are practicing Sikhs who are assholes.  But *of course* the religion/culture you're raised in can affect your behavior as an adult.  Of course that's not a guarantee.
 
2013-03-13 11:20:18 AM  
I'm inclined to suggest that the lads up in Surrey stick to daggers and chair-legs. Bringing guns into the matter simply isn't cricket.
 
2013-03-13 11:24:42 AM  
Can we have a SIKH tag?
 
2013-03-13 11:27:45 AM  

Russ1642: MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.

You're from Surrey? I'm so sorry.


/hangs head in shame.
 
2013-03-13 11:35:14 AM  
ACLU's heads explode.
 
2013-03-13 11:43:36 AM  
So ban on assault weapons in California supposedly oppresses people of the Sikh religion says white man suing the state
 
2013-03-13 11:44:10 AM  

This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.


Huh?
 
2013-03-13 11:49:18 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.


Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?
 
2013-03-13 11:50:26 AM  

WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.


I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.
 
2013-03-13 11:52:25 AM  
Religion I can believe in.
 
2013-03-13 11:58:18 AM  

Molavian: WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.

I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.


According to my friend who attends that temple, no more than before. They see the shooting as an anomaly and don't feel that they should start doing anything different.
 
2013-03-13 12:12:58 PM  

MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.


How's the curry?
 
2013-03-13 12:14:23 PM  

msimon8: steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Conversely, is there a good way to be a fanatic?


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-13 12:16:21 PM  

illannoyin: Missing pic from previous post...

[i.imgur.com image 511x428]

Wassat? it's a dagger not a sword?

[gndn.files.wordpress.com image 749x655]

Got you covered too!



It would have been better without diCaprio.
 
2013-03-13 12:22:20 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.

Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?


If those are the choices, put me down for "rich".

You never know, right?
 
2013-03-13 12:25:47 PM  
I'm not coing in to work today.

I'm Sikh
 
2013-03-13 12:29:36 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: StoPPeRmobile: Old_Chief_Scott: Mr. Eugenides: Dimensio: Protecting public safety by prohibiting ownership of semi-automatic rifles that feature threaded barrels, pistol grips or collapsing stocks overrides any supposed freedom of religion.

Consider the increase in rates of violent crime that would occur were California residents not barred from purchasing rifles with thumbhole stocks.

How do threaded barrels, pistol grips and collapsing stocks enganger public safety?

You know, I've been studying that post. Is it a cleverly crafted troll? Because the best ones are subtle and this one is so subtle you can't be certain of the intent. It is also short and to the point. Most troll attempts fail because they go on too long and by doing so typically reveal some aspect of the troller's platform. On the other hand,  dimensio could be sincere in his belief that the type of stock determines some sort of overall quality of the firearm and since I know many people that believe the same thing, I could also simply take him at his word.

I don't know, I guess I'm on the fence on this one.

Only cops, criminals and rich people should have weapons.
Which one are you?

If those are the choices, put me down for "rich".

You never know, right?


It will be found out in the background check.
 
2013-03-13 12:32:57 PM  

MadSkillz: Russ1642: MadSkillz: I'm from Surrey. I don't recall any one of the hundreds of thousands of jud-Sikhs who live there suing to wear firearms. This is bizarre.

You're from Surrey? I'm so sorry.

/hangs head in shame.


I grew up in Langley. We had two things going for us - good weed and not being Surrey.
 
2013-03-13 12:42:46 PM  

Joe Blowme: But what is the purpose of gun controll? I've been told its about protecting the innocent victims of gun violence but there are worse things out there killing our children. Its like focusing on that splinter in your hand and ignoring the brains leaking out your ear because you hate splinters so much. I guess we just have to agree to disagree


Don't be so naive...it's clearly an international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of your precious bodily fluids.
 
2013-03-13 12:42:50 PM  

steve-0: What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


He probably got tired of being the poor guy always bringing a knife to a gun fight.
 
2013-03-13 12:43:49 PM  

CitizenjaQ: msimon8: steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"? Also, did this guy get named a Khalsa, or is he using Khalsa as his last name?

This has "religious fanatic" all over it, and not in the good way.

Conversely, is there a good way to be a fanatic?

[img.photobucket.com image 229x320]


Touché
 
2013-03-13 12:46:36 PM  

SpectroBoy: This guy isn't just a Sikh, he is a Sikh asshat.

Sikh are required (by tradition / religion) to carry a Kirpan at all times. It is a ceremonial sword or dagger.


The "ceremonial" bit is very new.

I am no expert but I have worked with SIkh's.  Some of them say it can easily be interpreted as the weapon of the day.

Either way bending arms laws doesn't fit within the "reasonable" accomidatiosn we make for religions.

/which are BS in my opinion anyway.
 
2013-03-13 01:22:13 PM  

illannoyin: Missing pic from previous post...

[i.imgur.com image 511x428]

Wassat? it's a dagger not a sword?

[gndn.files.wordpress.com image 749x655]

Got you covered too!


Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
 
2013-03-13 01:37:40 PM  

steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.


I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.
 
2013-03-13 02:07:24 PM  
jso2897:  you still have the "slippery - slope" argument, which, of course, ANYBODY can always use for ANYTHING.

Did you just use the slippery slope argument to argue against using the slippery slope argument?
 
2013-03-13 02:12:33 PM  

ACunningPlan: This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.

Huh?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

Ghandi thought the Sikhs would roll over and die for political purposes. The Sikhs had other ideas.
 
2013-03-13 02:26:05 PM  
Anyone who claims that they need to be armed for religious purposes should never be allowed access to a weapon, ever.

/imho
 
2013-03-13 02:46:22 PM  

leonel: steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.

I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.


I've heard of Jews  eating bacon, but they tend not to be very orthodox.

/not sure a bolted kirpan would meet the requirements of the religion   for more traditionalist Sikhs
 
2013-03-13 02:47:38 PM  

SpectroBoy: Marine1: That's kind of how I see it. I could be in the dark on this, but the Sikhs I've met and heard of don't sound like the types to go off the deep end.

All Sikhs I have ever met have been the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet. To me they appear to be one of the few religions that try to live up to the marketing material.

And the guy in the article is just an asshat who happens to claim to be a sikh.


That saying about "there's one in every crowd" rings true.
 
2013-03-13 03:11:08 PM  

steve-0: Didn't this already get resolved by allowing students and adult Sikhs to wear kirpans anywhere they want? I thought the kirpan was "the sword of God"?


Are they really allowed to take them through courtroom or school metal detectors, on planes, etc.?
 
2013-03-13 03:20:14 PM  

legion_of_doo: leonel: steve-0: Old_Chief_Scott:

A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

What I meant was I thought carrying around a Kirpan was the whole point of that, not carrying around an assault rifle.

I don't think the Kirpan even has to be usable. I've heard of Sikh's wearing a Kirpan that's bolted into its sheath.

I've heard of Jews  eating bacon, but they tend not to be very orthodox.

/not sure a bolted kirpan would meet the requirements of the religion   for more traditionalist Sikhs


Well yeah, traditionalists tend to be inflexible in that respect, but I do think the bolted kirpan is the more common thing just to get around regular rules about weapons.
 
2013-03-13 05:35:14 PM  

This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: This text is now purple: ACunningPlan: A basic tenet of the Sikh belief structure is the defense of the defenseless so maybe this one isn't so bad as the one that sets off car bombs.

That's just what Indira Ghandi thought.

Indira Ghandi made the mistake of confusing the Sikhs for the Jews.

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

Ghandi thought the Sikhs would roll over and die for political purposes. The Sikhs had other ideas.


Oh for goodness sake, why didn't you just say the Golden Temple incident?  However, your parallel is still irrelevant.  The poster said one of the basic tenets of the Sikh faith was defending the defenceless. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure an unarmed person falls into the defenceless category, especially if said shooting is done by their bodyguards.  Having said that - IIRC - one of the shooters was actually shot upon being arrested arrest; living and dying by the Kirpan in question, I guess.
 
2013-03-13 06:47:53 PM  

WhiskeySticks: There's a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin that may have a problem with this.

Molavian: I'd be willing to bet there's more than one gun in that temple now.


Whiskey, wrong, Molavian, right. Their local gun community came out to support the crap out of them after that shiat happened, free training, etc.  Believe it or not, a lot of bitter Christians clinging to their guns and bibles have no problem helping out the mud people when they really need it.  A LOT of Sikhs saw the writing on the wall and started arming up after it, in Wisconsin and everywhere else.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for. Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.

Did you move?  Detroit actually has a ton of Sikhs around.  But, you know, they're religious and probably don't hang out in the places you normally do.  We've got a few here at the med school, a bunch over on main campus, I see a bunch in Ann Arbor every time I go... etc.
 
2013-03-13 08:13:34 PM  

ThatGuyOverThere: StreetlightInTheGhetto: And I've only met a few in my life (not a big population around here), but the last Sikh I met in passing ended up mailing a $80 donation to the non-profit I work for. Which I didn't ask him to do, we just had a pleasant short conversation - he had never heard of the non-profit before - and I left him some information I had on me.
Did you move? Detroit actually has a ton of Sikhs around. But, you know, they're religious and probably don't hang out in the places you normally do. We've got a few here at the med school, a bunch over on main campus, I see a bunch in Ann Arbor every time I go... etc.


Likely a social circle thing I suppose.  My best friend growing up in the suburbs was Hindi but definitely didn't have any Sikhs in class with me all through senior year.  Nobody in my (admittedly small) college major either.  So maybe I'm underestimating the population for that reason (reason being happenstance I guess; Probably the same reason I tend  to overestimate the SE Michigan Chaldean population.  Perception is no substitute for data, I suppose, so mea culpa there).
 
2013-03-14 10:49:45 AM  

give me doughnuts: A kirpan is a dagger, not a semi-automatic rifle.
Didin't anybody tell this guy?


He's aware that's the traditional view; he just has a different view of the religious duty. The full complaint is apparently here.

Russ1642: This is perfect. He's just showing that if you use religion as an exception then you open legal loopholes that you can drive a tank through. Literally. "My religion requires that I be in a travelling fortress."


Which would seem to run aground on Reynolds v. United States... except that there's also Second Amendment factors in play.
 
2013-03-15 12:23:03 AM  
If they arent going to resepect the right to bear arms, which is explicitely written into the bill of rights, why would you think they are going to respect freedom of religion which is SORTA written into the bill of rights through the no establishment clause?
 
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