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(Mother Nature Network)   Six years after China launched an anti-satellite test into space, debris from it hit and destroyed a Russian satellite   (mnn.com) divider line 55
    More: Interesting, Russians, Russian satellite, military satellite, Earth Orbit, TechMediaNetwork  
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5090 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2013 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-13 08:11:34 AM
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

Oh, we chinese a vewy sneaky.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 08:56:32 AM
Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.
 
2013-03-13 08:58:12 AM

ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.


My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.
 
2013-03-13 09:00:48 AM

ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.


Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.
 
2013-03-13 09:17:01 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-13 09:18:34 AM

hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.



We'd all have to start using CB radio!


/10-4 good buddy
 
2013-03-13 09:18:49 AM

hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.


Cause 1950 was the stone age?  :-)
You know...we actually might be better off as a species in general if that were to happen....
I would of course miss the gun threads on fark, but my cell phone never ringing again?  Not that big of a deal..
 
2013-03-13 09:19:42 AM

hardinparamedic: I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.


Wait wait...will it interfere me from watching American Idol or Jersey Shore?
 
2013-03-13 09:21:54 AM
If any of that Chinese junk takes out the dish network satellite get ready for WWIII.
 
2013-03-13 09:23:26 AM
I think it's just great. Humans have managed to pollute their water, land, air and now space. We love putting our trash everywhere.
 
2013-03-13 09:23:39 AM
ex-mormon.net
 
2013-03-13 09:25:04 AM

FullMetalPanda: My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.


PEDANT POWERS ACTIVATE: The bits are moving pretty quick, sure, but they're not relativistic: the orbital speeds mentioned in the article (28160km/h) are only about 0.0026% of the speed of light.
 
2013-03-13 09:27:52 AM

heypete: FullMetalPanda: My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.

PEDANT POWERS ACTIVATE: The bits are moving pretty quick, sure, but they're not relativistic: the orbital speeds mentioned in the article (28160km/h) are only about 0.0026% of the speed of light.


OH YEAH!?!

sprott.physics.wisc.edu

/teach the controversy
 
2013-03-13 09:28:48 AM

ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.


So,, gravity affects 1 ton of material spread out differently than a one ton satellite?
Who knew gravity was so selective?
 
2013-03-13 09:28:51 AM

hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.


Aren't the communications sats in a much higher orbit geosynchronous orbit, which due to its much larger orbital radius (26,000 miles vs 300-400 miles) is a lot less crowded? You'd have to get through the debris to launch new communication sats, but the old ones should keep working for a while even if LEO has a Kessler meltdown.
 
2013-03-13 09:29:20 AM

heypete: FullMetalPanda: My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.

PEDANT POWERS ACTIVATE: The bits are moving pretty quick, sure, but they're not relativistic: the orbital speeds mentioned in the article (28160km/h) are only about 0.0026% of the speed of light.


CNN MATH POWERS ACTIVATE:

sprott.physics.wisc.edu
 
2013-03-13 09:30:58 AM
hardinparamedic: you magnificent bastard. I salute you.
 
2013-03-13 09:31:06 AM

FullMetalPanda: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.


Nothing that man has put in orbit moves at anything close to the speed of light, so relativistic is not really the right word.
 
2013-03-13 09:32:11 AM
Crap, didn't refresh fast enough.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 09:33:25 AM
Nutsac_Jim

Deceleration from atmospheric drag is roughly proportional to the ratio of area to mass, which is inversely proportional to the size of the object. See also "ballistic coefficient."
 
2013-03-13 09:34:29 AM

computerguyUT: hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.

Cause 1950 was the stone age?  :-)
You know...we actually might be better off as a species in general if that were to happen....
I would of course miss the gun threads on fark, but my cell phone never ringing again?  Not that big of a deal..


You just secretly want women, gays, and those uppity negroes to be put back in their place, don't you.
 
2013-03-13 09:39:32 AM

ZAZ: Nutsac_Jim

Deceleration from atmospheric drag is roughly proportional to the ratio of area to mass, which is inversely proportional to the size of the object. See also "ballistic coefficient."


Yeah, I didn't think about drag.  I suppose it is much like a pound of crushed ice will melt faster than a one pound ice cube because of the increased surface area.
 
2013-03-13 09:46:27 AM

gopher321: hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.


We'd all have to start using CB radio!


/10-4 good buddy


I have a CB.

Because I go off-roading.  That's the easiest and quickest way to keep a group in contact with each other.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 09:46:59 AM
I am laughing SO hard right now. Stupid asses. There's a reason for the old saying "it's not rocket science".
Because rocket science is farking hard as hell. Many fail to grasp the difficulty in getting something into space without blowing to to holy hell.
The folks at JPL and places such as that are galactically brilliant folks. And that, coming from an engineer.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 09:52:27 AM
Because rocket science is farking hard as hell.

Rocket science was one of my most difficult college courses. Specifically, the course was on rocket propulsion. Thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and chemistry all mixed together under high pressure.
 
2013-03-13 10:04:28 AM
Low Earth orbit debris:

earthobservatory.nasa.gov
 
2013-03-13 10:07:47 AM
gja:  Many fail to grasp the difficulty in getting something into space without blowing to to holy hell.

Isn't that the reason for the space junk? Besides the Chinese.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 10:12:01 AM

computerguyUT: hardinparamedic: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

Yeah, It's called Kessler Syndrome. And it's also considered a doomsday scenario because it would effectively prevent any space travel or use of earth orbital space for anything. Communications, Navigation, everything would revert back to what it was before 1950.

I don't think people ever stop to think about how their lives would be affected without those satellites handling everything without them even thinking about it today.

Cause 1950 was the stone age?  :-)
You know...we actually might be better off as a species in general if that were to happen....
I would of course miss the gun threads on fark, but my cell phone never ringing again?  Not that big of a deal..


I have been in I.T. long enough to remember the days of the "beeper rotation", whereby each week a different staffer was the designated person for 'on call' and had the beeper/pager. No 24/7 for everyone, no manic, constant flow of email/IMs, etc...
We are literally KILLING ourselves with this stuff.
Technology was supposed to free us, but instead has become our overlord in many ways.
Instead of using tech as a way to ease up on working staff the corporate mentality was "oh look, we can squeeze SOOOOO much more from them now".
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 10:15:22 AM

FullMetalPanda: ZAZ: Bad news: exponential increase in debris.

Good news: once all our satellites are ground into micron size particles they will fall out of orbit quickly.

My understanding is that crap stays up there forever when it's that small and they move at relativistic speeds meaning a paint chip could punch through you like nothing.  So I wouldn't want to be going out in a EVA suit.


They will probably have to start using suits like deep-sea divers use, Jim suits. Hardened and can withstand impacts easily.
Play-off? Nowhere near as comfy/flexy.
 
2013-03-13 10:16:14 AM
Chinese Space Chief: This, recruits, is a 20-kilo hunk of broken satellite debris. Feel the weight. Every so often, the anti sat missle of the People's Republic of China accelerates one to .00026 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kilotomb bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-biatch in space. Now! Serviceman Yang! What is Newton's First Law?
First Recruit: Sir! A object in motion stays in motion, sir!
Chinese Space  Chief: No credit for partial answers, maggot!
First Recruit: Sir! Unless acted on by an outside force, sir!
Chinese Space  Chief: Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire this husk of metal, it keeps going till it hits something. That can be a Russian Satellite, or the planet behind that satellite. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you're ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip!
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 10:21:32 AM

ZAZ: Because rocket science is farking hard as hell.

Rocket science was one of my most difficult college courses. Specifically, the course was on rocket propulsion. Thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and chemistry all mixed together under high pressure.


All with the added fun factor if you F-up I blows you and everyone nearby into itty-bitty charred bits.
Or just cooks your skin off, or poisons you fatally. Fun stuff, eh? Hydrazine, UDMH and the like.
 
2013-03-13 10:27:51 AM
The Aristosats
 
2013-03-13 10:32:16 AM
So we have a junkyard orbiting the Earth complete with rare-earth materials and circuitry free for the taking? It sounds like additional materials storage that can be used in the future along with asteroids. This problem won't last forever. It'll be just about when we start mining landfills for the wasted raw material.
 
2013-03-13 10:32:52 AM
www.eichhorn.ws
 
2013-03-13 11:02:17 AM
I remember reading a sci fi short story years ago about a world with low enough gravity that a rifle bullet could reach orbital velocity and would orbit just above ground level. Also, it was airless (no atmo drag) so they must have had space rifles or something. Anyway, there was a war going on there and every time they'd reach a peace agreement one of the many very low orbit projectiles would end up hitting someone, thereby restarting hostilities. Can't remember the name of the story.
 
2013-03-13 11:08:29 AM
If I remember correctly, there was an Anime about LEO trash collectors. I can't remember the name of it though.
 
2013-03-13 11:09:14 AM
Yay Chicoms. Shop Wal-Mart!
 
2013-03-13 11:24:21 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-13 11:28:49 AM
Big Vacuum Cleaner
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 11:56:09 AM
All with the added fun factor if you F-up I blows you and everyone nearby into itty-bitty charred bits. Or just cooks your skin off, or poisons you fatally. Fun stuff, eh? Hydrazine, UDMH and the like.

Farkers who are into that sort of thing should read Ignition!", a memoir of a man who worked with liquid rocket propellants before the field stagnated.

This appears to be a low quality scan: http://sqentropy.dyndns.org/ebook/Ignition/. No idea if it's authorized or if the copyright police will hunt you down for clicking the link.
 
2013-03-13 11:58:14 AM
So . . . success?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 12:03:46 PM
priapic_abandon

I remember that story but not its name. It was set on the Moon and was probably a Cold War story with Americans vs. Reds. More than one story has had orbital bullets on the moon, but one of them is semi-famous.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 12:06:32 PM
According to the internet the orbiting bullets story may be "Men of Good Will" by Ben Bova (1964).
 
2013-03-13 12:10:53 PM
nbd, just move her into a higher orbit.

i140.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-13 12:24:17 PM
Hire Salvage-1 to clean up the mess.
 
2013-03-13 12:35:35 PM

ferretman: Low Earth orbit debris:

[earthobservatory.nasa.gov image 468x468]


Ought to be able to hit something in that traffic jam

/but six years?
 
2013-03-13 12:38:10 PM
I spent a year contracting to NOAA and NASA at JPSS, supporting the Suomi-NPP satellite (the one that's been talking all those great hi-res pics since October of 2011).  One of the concerns they had was this same anti-sat test China conducted, because it was in nearly the same orbit NPP was going into, and changing the orbit wasn't practical because they were "six months from launch" in 2007.  (They were "six months from launch" for nearly the entire duration of what was apparently originally supposed to be a year-or-so launch window well before 2007.)  Fortunately NPP has maneuvering capability, but it's using its maneuvering fuel much faster than was planned.  After it runs out they'll just have to pray really hard.
 
2013-03-13 02:05:51 PM

Clemkadidlefark: ferretman: Low Earth orbit debris:

[earthobservatory.nasa.gov image 468x468]

Ought to be able to hit something in that traffic jam

/but six years?


The distances between those objects are still quite large. The odds of intersection at orbital speed are still quite low. It would be like trying to hit a bullet with another bullet fired from a different direction at great distance... very difficult, even when you're trying to make it happen. The amount of satellites and debris we have between Low Earth Orbit and Geosynchronous Orbit is simply miniscule when compared to the absolute nothing the occupies the same volume of space.
 
2013-03-13 02:42:45 PM

ZAZ: priapic_abandon

I remember that story but not its name. It was set on the Moon and was probably a Cold War story with Americans vs. Reds. More than one story has had orbital bullets on the moon, but one of them is semi-famous.


Yeah, that's the one. Cold War goes hot on the moon. It would really suck more than usual to be a ground-pounder there.
 
2013-03-13 04:09:59 PM
Didn't they prove particles naturally coalesce? Won't time solve this?

Strap a magnet to the back of a couple of defunct satellites and have them scour the heavens.

/Or they could install a snow plow on satellites and call it a day.
 
2013-03-13 05:30:14 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Clemkadidlefark: ferretman: Low Earth orbit debris:

[earthobservatory.nasa.gov image 468x468]

Ought to be able to hit something in that traffic jam

/but six years?

The distances between those objects are still quite large. The odds of intersection at orbital speed are still quite low. It would be like trying to hit a bullet with another bullet fired from a different direction at great distance... very difficult, even when you're trying to make it happen. The amount of satellites and debris we have between Low Earth Orbit and Geosynchronous Orbit is simply miniscule when compared to the absolute nothing the occupies the same volume of space.


The distances are large, but they're moving very fast.  There are thousands of events/day that reach the 1 in a million threshold.  And that's just for the stuff that's actually tracked, which is a small fraction of what's up there.  In fact, the original author jumped the gun on this one - the russian satellite was hit by something, but it wasn't the piece of chinese satellite that was claimed.  Apparently some untracked debris from everything I've seen.
 
2013-03-13 06:53:25 PM
What I want to know is this:

Where's the Russian dashcam video from the Russian satellite?  Surely they had a dashcam running up there...
 
2013-03-13 07:11:56 PM

ZAZ: I remember that story but not its name. It was set on the Moon and was probably a Cold War story with Americans vs. Reds. More than one story has had orbital bullets on the moon, but one of them is semi-famous.


I remember that one. Every once in a while, on a semi regular schedule: Cold War on the Moon.
"OK everyone! Lay down!"

Apparently, they had all the orbital mechanics worked out and could predict quite closely when the fragments would cruise through. Of course, cruising through changed the orbits every so slightly.
 
2013-03-13 07:37:23 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: I remember that one. Every once in a while, on a semi regular schedule: Cold War on the Moon.
"OK everyone! Lay down!"


I remember that one. Every once in a while, on a semi regular schedule: "OK everyone! Lay down!"

/Formatting? What?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-13 07:54:40 PM

priapic_abandon: I remember reading a sci fi short story years ago about a world with low enough gravity that a rifle bullet could reach orbital velocity and would orbit just above ground level. Also, it was airless (no atmo drag) so they must have had space rifles or something. Anyway, there was a war going on there and every time they'd reach a peace agreement one of the many very low orbit projectiles would end up hitting someone, thereby restarting hostilities. Can't remember the name of the story.


Pffft, powder-fired guns in space are a fail.
Rail-guns, now that will tear your arse a new exit hole.
 
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