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(Yahoo)   Farewell Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist, he was the last surviving member of the plot to kill Hitler   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 16
    More: Hero, Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist, Hitler, local church, suicide vest, Prussian, Fuhrer  
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4227 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2013 at 9:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 09:23:27 PM
4 votes:
I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.
2013-03-12 11:35:20 PM
3 votes:
It would probably be helpful if folks criticizing this man were aware that his family was trying to stop Hitler even before the war began.  This family was not devoted to Hitler until he started losing, these guys were against Hitler before it was cool.

They deserve the hero tag for that alone.

The fact that he was willing to strap a suicide vest on and give a genocidal maniac a chest bump counts for a lot in the courage department, folks.  Especially given that a lot of the basement warriors around here couldn't be bothered to walk down the street to check out a burglar alarm.
2013-03-12 09:32:25 PM
3 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.


Exactly.  If memory serves correct, it was the very head of the Nazi party that ended up killing Hitler.  That's the only dude who deserves praise and recognition.
2013-03-13 01:09:28 AM
2 votes:

freetomato: thornhill: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.

THIS.

The plots to kill Hitler by German military officers wasn't motivated by a belief that Germany's racial policies were wrong and immoral, but simply that Hitler's terrible management of the war was making defeat a sure thing. These guys wanted to win the war, not bring an end to the concentration camps.


Still wish they had had shot him down, don't you?  I don't know how it would have affected the outcome, but for him to die in fear rather then complaisance..he got off easy.  Him in  a french maid costume, with a pineapple being shoved up his ass is an image he deserves.


It would have ended the European war a year and a half earlier than it did, and probably frozen the Eastern Front right where it was (at Stalingrad), thereby keeping Stalin's icy, bloody mitts off Eastern Europe. It would have allowed the liberation of the death camps that much sooner, and prevented the deaths of everyone in them at that time. And it would have freed up American and possibly British men and materiel to fight in the Pacific, and possibly enabled that war to have ended sooner rather than requiring the use of the atomic bomb.

The motivation for killing Hitler may not have been as pure as you'd have liked; but the German Army officers who engineered the plots knew as early as 1941, certainly by 1944 that the war was lost and wanted Hitler dead so they could negotiate a favorable peace. That they were not motivated by a saintly desire to stop the concentration camps is irrelevant. And, it was for that reason they didn't try sooner. Killing Hitler was pretty pointless unless they took out Himmler too. And getting them both in the same room was like catching Bush and Cheney eating at the same table.
2013-03-13 12:20:51 AM
2 votes:
There were Germans who did not belong to the Nazi party.

The Wehrmacht officer who devised the plan to drive through the Ardennes and divide the French and British armies was not a member of the Nazi party. He stood up to Hitler often enough that he spent the last part of the war sitting at home. The best general Hitler had and he was put out to pasture for not being a loyal Nazi.

The head of the Abwehr was not a Nazi party member. He was part of Valkyrie. The SS stripped him naked then hanged him with piano wire, letting him come close to death then letting down so he could recover. They spent over a half an hour hoisting him up and down several times.

It is not fair to say that people who didn't come out openly against Hitler deserve no thanks for whatever attempt they made at resistance. The whole Allied bombing strategy against Germany was based on the belief that bombing cities would make the German populace rise up against Hitler. In a totalitarian state, particularly one armed with IBM card machines, that doesn't work. We could have leveled all of Germany and the populace would still be afraid of being executed for even the smallest of slights against the Party.
2013-03-12 09:38:17 PM
2 votes:
Phooey, I liked the other headline better: "The most inspiring obituary of a suicide bomber you'll read all day"
2013-03-13 03:19:59 AM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.


Dude.

Read the article.

Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist was a 22 year-old lieutenant.

He and his family opposed Hitler since before he took power.

The plan was for him to be a suicide bomber, and kill Hitler in the process.

It's like you managed to be completely wrong in pretty much everything you've said in that post.
2013-03-13 12:55:53 AM
1 votes:
Captain James T. Smirk:

Still wish they had had shot him down, don't you?  I don't know how it would have affected the outcome, but for him to die in fear rather then complaisance..he got off easy.  Him in  a french maid costume, with a pineapple being shoved up his ass is an image he deserves.

Little Nickywas worse than the Holocaust.


And yet, hardly the worse Adam Sandler movie.
2013-03-13 12:52:33 AM
1 votes:

Captain James T. Smirk: He didn't. As others in this thread have pointed out after reading the article, this guy wasn't some general or other officer looking for a way to survive after Germany's inevitable defeat. Given that he agreed to wear a suicide bomb-vest and detonate it while standing next to Hitler sort of tosses the 'favorable surrender' theory out the window as well. I suppose he could have been hoping that the Allies and the Soviets would refrain from shooting the little pieces of his body into smaller pieces, but given the information we have, I'd say that he appeared to be a kid who knew what was being done in the name of Hitler and Germany was wrong and was willing to die to correct it. It makes him a hero, whether or not the plan ever came to fruition.


Oh please. He was a 22 year-old kid convinced to be a suicide bomber by his dad and high ranking German military officers. No different than what is done with modern day suicide bombers. I doubt he knew what he was doing or why.

If anything, this all sheds a much worse light on the so called German resistance. The higher ranking members of the military would have had no problems getting close to Hitler and killing him with a suicide bomb. Obviously Claus von Stauffenberg had the opportunity but he didn't want to die with the bomb. None of them did, which is why they found a dumb kid willing enough to be their sacrificial lamb.
2013-03-13 12:34:13 AM
1 votes:

thornhill: freetomato: thornhill: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.

THIS.

The plots to kill Hitler by German military officers wasn't motivated by a belief that Germany's racial policies were wrong and immoral, but simply that Hitler's terrible management of the war was making defeat a sure thing. These guys wanted to win the war, not bring an end to the concentration camps.


Still wish they had had shot him down, don't you?  I don't know how it would have affected the outcome, but for him to die in fear rather then complaisance..he got off easy.  Him in  a french maid costume, with a pineapple being shoved up his ass is an image he deserves.

Obviously, but this guy doesn't deserve the hero tag for wanting to kill Hitler so that the Germany could better wage WWII (or used having killed Hitler to negotiate a more favorable surren ...


He didn't. As others in this thread have pointed out after reading the article, this guy wasn't some general or other officer looking for a way to survive after Germany's inevitable defeat. Given that he agreed to wear a suicide bomb-vest and detonate it while standing next to Hitler sort of tosses the 'favorable surrender' theory out the window as well. I suppose he could have been hoping that the Allies and the Soviets would refrain from shooting the little pieces of his body into smaller pieces, but given the information we have, I'd say that he appeared to be a kid who knew what was being done in the name of Hitler and Germany was wrong and was willing to die to correct it. It makes him a hero, whether or not the plan ever came to fruition.
2013-03-12 10:00:43 PM
1 votes:

miniflea: I really don't have anything to add to the thread, but I just finished a biography of Manstein and felt I should post.


You read an entire biography of him and didn't realize its von Manstein? You need the "von".
2013-03-12 09:48:47 PM
1 votes:
lh5.googleusercontent.com

"Kleist? Who is Kleist?"
2013-03-12 09:46:10 PM
1 votes:

MrHappyRotter: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I'm having a hard time justifying the Hero tag here, subby. The officer corps loved Hitler and how he restored the army to its glory. They voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, followed his orders vis-a-vis the Holocaust, invasions, etc., and only turned on Hitler when it was evident they were going to lose if he remained the leader. They would have followed him forever had Germany kept winning.

That this guy was going to do something that seems noble in hindsight doesn't really whitewash what he had done before to rank up high enough to even have a shot at killing Hitler.

Exactly.  If memory serves correct, it was the very head of the Nazi party that ended up killing Hitler.  That's the only dude who deserves praise and recognition.


Ich sehe, was Sie dort taten
2013-03-12 09:45:51 PM
1 votes:
I don't really understand the plaudits for these people. Yes, they tried to kill Hitler. In 1944. The damage was already done. The only reason they tried to kill him was that Germany was losing the war. Not the evil, not the genocide, not the racism - they turned on him because they were losing. That's not that honorable.
2013-03-12 09:43:07 PM
1 votes:
Not a hero, none of the plotters were.

They wanted to kill Hitler so they could talk the Americans, Commonwealth, UK and France into attacking the Soviet Union.

The Holocaust would keep going, the killing of civilians in Poland, the Ukraine, and Greater Germany would keep going.

But the German military leaders, they would get saved.
2013-03-12 09:32:05 PM
1 votes:
Needs more 'the'?
 
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