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(CNN)   Black smoke. Thanks Obama   (cnn.com) divider line 33
    More: Obvious, College of Cardinals, Sistine Chapel  
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9470 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2013 at 7:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-12 08:47:03 PM
3 votes:

Perducci: You'd think that the old pope would just have a quick chat with god before he quit and be able to cut out a lot of this nonsense.  "Yeah, god says that.... ~this~ guy is the new pope.  Congrats"


They used to let Popes do that. . .then Pope Benedict IX farked it up by pretty much selling the Papacy to a relative (also the first Pope to ever resign, and the only Pope to serve 3 separate terms in office, and having been elected  at age 20 quite possibly the youngest Pope, he only got the job because he was a young nobleman of a politically powerful family that wanted him on the throne as a political move), he was openly homosexual and held gay orgies in the Lateran Palace.  Due to widespread and overwhelming disgust with him, he resigned a third time and his family paid him off to let them place a more respectable man as the Pope after he left, who was Gregory VI in 1045.

After being deposed for the last time, he was excommunicated for selling church offices (such as his own Papacy) and died in obscurity.

The current system is there to make sure that nobody tampers with the system like that.

Then again, until 769 A.D. the laity of the Diocese of Rome had the right to refuse to acknowledge the new Pope, essentially giving the common people of Rome a collective veto on the process.  They got rid of that one.  It wasn't until 1059 when the current system of Cardinals was created, giving a group of senior Bishops (well technically senior clergy, there were a handful of Cardinal Priests, but that's pretty much not allowed anymore) the ability to collectively decide.

Before 1059, there were a variety of ways of selecting popes, but it was usually by decree of whatever King or Emperor had conquered Rome at the time.  In antiquity, before it became the state church of Rome, the Bishop of Rome was decided by a consensus of the clergy and laity discussing it together.
2013-03-12 07:57:39 PM
3 votes:

Ambivalence: Snarfangel: Everyone keeps assuming that black smoke means no Pope has been elected. What if the cardinals accidentally created an anti-Pope.

Isn't there already an anti-pope? I want to say the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church but I don't want to offend if I'm wrong. (And I don't care enough to google it).


Nope.

Generally, the anti-popes are leaders of splinter Catholic sects. There are a few guys in the US who claim the Bishopric of Rome, actually.
2013-03-12 02:48:10 PM
3 votes:
i remember last time there was some ambiguity in that some of the first smoke came out kind of gray and everyone outside was all, "uh, what do we report?"

i guess they just wanted to make super sure everyone got the message.
2013-03-12 09:05:09 PM
2 votes:

Ambivalence: Snarfangel: Everyone keeps assuming that black smoke means no Pope has been elected. What if the cardinals accidentally created an anti-Pope.

Isn't there already an anti-pope? I want to say the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church but I don't want to offend if I'm wrong. (And I don't care enough to google it).


Not in the sense that's usually meant re "antipope" (which actually involved dueling conclaves in some cases, both claiming to be the head of the Catholic church)--the Eastern Orthodox churches have the church patriarchs, but none of them are claiming to be pontiff (seeing as they had their big divorce from Catholicism back in 1054 CE).   Pretty much the Orthodox churches were the first major "forking" of the Christian church that managed to succeed--we didn't get another successful "fork" until Martin Luther and Henry VIII.)

The antipopes were a bit different--imagine you have two governments, BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of Catholicism (one being the official "Roman candidate", the other usually elected by a "Conclave in exile" of sorts), and it doesn't hurt that you tended to have lots of major powers in Europe at the time pushing for their particular Pope-claimant and supporting either the "official" pope or the "Conclave-in-exile" antipope.  (Interestingly, a lot of the antipopes predating the Great Schism of 1054 tended to have been "papal appointments" by the Byzantine Empire or the Roman Empire, so that split was probably a good long time coming.)

There's no "opposition popes" that have enough of a pull nowadays to be considered a legitimate antipope--yes, you do have schismatic "Old Order Catholic" type groups who feel Vatican II (and in some cases, Vatican I back from 1868) were hellspawned concentrated evil and that every single person who's held the office of "pope" is in fact an antipope (and that their head bishop is properly the "Papal claimant" of a remainder "True Catholic" church) but they certainly don't have heads of state supporting them--hell, probably the most famous person supporting those types is Mel Gibson and pretty much his career got cratered when it came out just how racist and anti-Semitic the "Traditional Catholic" schismatic group he's in with actually was.
2013-03-12 08:19:19 PM
2 votes:
Black smoke means your fuel mixture is too rich, trim it out a bit. White smoke means that coolant is getting into the combustion chamber and is a sign that you could have a blown head gasket.

Blue, or grey smoke is most likely bad rings
2013-03-12 07:49:10 PM
2 votes:
Valentine Pontifex of Majipoor.
2013-03-12 07:48:53 PM
2 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: Straw is burned along with the ballots for the black smoke.


Actually it isn't.  They've tried flares a couple of times with mixed results.  This time around I read they are using chemicals to produce the right effect.
2013-03-12 07:43:08 PM
2 votes:
I predict they will pick an old Catholic who will maintain centuries of ecclesiastical dogma.

Call me crazy.
2013-03-12 07:42:28 PM
2 votes:
Dear Papal folks,

Please don't hire the American.

Thanks,
America.
2013-03-12 07:39:18 PM
2 votes:

KarmicDisaster: What did they burn to get the smoke that Black, some politician souls?


Politicians do not have souls.
2013-03-12 02:55:16 PM
2 votes:
This is the year 2013. Just put a neon sign on the roof. Or post online. "Your pope is important to us. Please continue to hold..."
2013-03-12 02:48:45 PM
2 votes:

LineNoise: Wow, they weren't messing around with that smoke.


IIRC, one of the times they burned the ballots before the last guy was elected the smoke started out as slightly white before they added the straw to turn the smoke black which led to a lot of confusion. Glad to see they're not messing around this time around.
2013-03-13 12:15:20 AM
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Perducci: You'd think that the old pope would just have a quick chat with god before he quit and be able to cut out a lot of this nonsense.  "Yeah, god says that.... ~this~ guy is the new pope.  Congrats"

They used to let Popes do that. . .then Pope Benedict IX farked it up by pretty much selling the Papacy to a relative (also the first Pope to ever resign, and the only Pope to serve 3 separate terms in office, and having been elected  at age 20 quite possibly the youngest Pope, he only got the job because he was a young nobleman of a politically powerful family that wanted him on the throne as a political move), he was openly homosexual and held gay orgies in the Lateran Palace.  Due to widespread and overwhelming disgust with him, he resigned a third time and his family paid him off to let them place a more respectable man as the Pope after he left, who was Gregory VI in 1045.

After being deposed for the last time, he was excommunicated for selling church offices (such as his own Papacy) and died in obscurity.

The current system is there to make sure that nobody tampers with the system like that.

Then again, until 769 A.D. the laity of the Diocese of Rome had the right to refuse to acknowledge the new Pope, essentially giving the common people of Rome a collective veto on the process.  They got rid of that one.  It wasn't until 1059 when the current system of Cardinals was created, giving a group of senior Bishops (well technically senior clergy, there were a handful of Cardinal Priests, but that's pretty much not allowed anymore) the ability to collectively decide.

Before 1059, there were a variety of ways of selecting popes, but it was usually by decree of whatever King or Emperor had conquered Rome at the time.  In antiquity, before it became the state church of Rome, the Bishop of Rome was decided by a consensus of the clergy and laity discussing it together.


Well, technically speaking most Cardinals are Cardinal Priests -- they're bishops who are not bishops of a few special dioceses. Cardinal deacons are Cardinals who are priests but not bishops, but you're right that they're mostly out of the decision process now, as they usually get elevated after they turn eighty as a honorary thing (Avery Dulles was one of the better-known Cardinal Deacons). So basically, Cardinal Priests are bishops, and Cardinal Deacons are priests.

And for the rest of your post, you're right on; the history of the papacy is full of all kinds of insane shiat. All those articles about "The Church In Crisis" never seem to remember that there's a lot of church history that took place before Vatican II.
2013-03-12 10:51:09 PM
1 votes:

jamspoon: Maybe they'll elect Joseph Ratzinger for a second term?

Now that would be a first.


No it wouldn't.

Remember that part above where I mentioned Benedict IX?

Yeah, he served as Pope for 3 non-consecutive terms.  Not only did he resign the Papacy. . .he was re-elected to it afterwards. . .twice!

Thus there's even historic precedent for a resigned (or deposed) Pope to retake the office.

However, since Benedict XVI made it clear he was leaving because he didn't feel fit anymore, presumably he wouldn't be chosen again, because he would not be expected to accept even if he was elected.
2013-03-12 08:31:29 PM
1 votes:
Oh heck, they've already picked the guy. Now they are just swapping kiddy porn. Once they have their collections all sorted out, they'll burn the duplicates, which creates the white sand smoke.

Why do you think they lock the doors?
2013-03-12 08:09:28 PM
1 votes:
If the elected few of our political system took their jobs this seriously, I wonder if we would have so much trouble in our society?
2013-03-12 08:05:39 PM
1 votes:
If they want to elect the right guy, why don't they pray to the Jesus to get a unanimous decision by all cardinals?

I'd think that the idea is that God would pick his own mouthpiece. I'd be a shame if the cardinals accidentally picked the wrong guy, like someone who likes dicking kids and sullies God's reputation...
2013-03-12 08:00:19 PM
1 votes:

ontariolightning: Black smoke and no Lost references? Have you all FORGOTTEN?!


After the bullshiat way it ended, Lost is dead to me.
2013-03-12 07:57:59 PM
1 votes:

threadjackistan: Ambivalence: Snarfangel: Everyone keeps assuming that black smoke means no Pope has been elected. What if the cardinals accidentally created an anti-Pope.

Isn't there already an anti-pope? I want to say the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church but I don't want to offend if I'm wrong. (And I don't care enough to google it).

To be anti-pope, technically you have to have a significantly recognized claim to be the bishop of Rome. That eastern orthodox pope doesn't qualify on that basis.


Also, if an antipope make contact with the recognized pope, they mutually annihilate into pure energy.
2013-03-12 07:57:55 PM
1 votes:
HalfOffOffer
Can't they spare us all the drama of using black and white smoke and just tweet it out when they've picked someone? Sheesh.


[obligatory]
"Okay pope's coming out!"
[/obligatory]
2013-03-12 07:55:28 PM
1 votes:

Ambivalence: Snarfangel: Everyone keeps assuming that black smoke means no Pope has been elected. What if the cardinals accidentally created an anti-Pope.

Isn't there already an anti-pope? I want to say the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church but I don't want to offend if I'm wrong. (And I don't care enough to google it).


To be anti-pope, technically you have to have a significantly recognized claim to be the bishop of Rome. That eastern orthodox pope doesn't qualify on that basis.
2013-03-12 07:51:03 PM
1 votes:
So...pope is not coming out?
2013-03-12 07:47:31 PM
1 votes:
No pope, sequester AND we're at war with North Korea again! Cats and dogs, living together!!!
2013-03-12 07:46:42 PM
1 votes:

LineNoise: Wow, they weren't messing around with that smoke.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't hear anything from the conclave for a few days, only to open the doors and find them all dead of carbon monoxide poisoning.


Its almost happened a number of times.  Imagine having to create a system that a bunch of really old guys must be able to activate without being able to ask for help?  And then its used once every decade or two.
2013-03-12 07:41:02 PM
1 votes:
Green after all these hours?

POPE THREAD!!!1
2013-03-12 05:12:49 PM
1 votes:

CommieTaoist: [i1156.photobucket.com image 425x319]


Brilliant!

Torgo_of_Manos: Mudgen:  I just had a vision of a "Hot pontiffs now" sign in red flashing neon....

Dammit now I want donuts


See?  THANKS, OBAMA!
2013-03-12 03:59:44 PM
1 votes:
so first term - nobel prize, second term - papacy
2013-03-12 03:49:02 PM
1 votes:
So, I watched about 15 minutes of the Showtime show "The Borgias" before I thew the remote down in disgust, but I do kind of wish this conclave was like that first one. For the lulz
2013-03-12 03:35:41 PM
1 votes:
I am highly curious as to what would happen if they picked a non-Cardinal. How would they get the word out to that guy that he needs to get to Rome triple-quick? Would they put out white smoke, and then a guy saying "Please hold for our pope who is arriving on the red-eye and we hope he says yes"? What would be the reaction of the bishop who got that phone call? "Yeah farking right I'm the new pope." [click]

I know it hasn't happened in like 700 years but NEITHER HAS A POPE RESIGNING.
2013-03-12 03:11:52 PM
1 votes:

Shakespeare's Monkey: [farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x388]


I love this so much
2013-03-12 03:02:28 PM
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: What did they burn to get the smoke that Black, some politician souls?


Probably whatever Silvio Burlesconi puts in his hair.
2013-03-12 02:52:32 PM
1 votes:
t2.gstatic.com
2013-03-12 02:45:54 PM
1 votes:
Wow, they weren't messing around with that smoke.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't hear anything from the conclave for a few days, only to open the doors and find them all dead of carbon monoxide poisoning.
 
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