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(Reuters)   Yahoo employees complain to CEO that they still have 800 vacancies because she is a snob who only wants CS degrees and only from certain schools. Her response? "Why can't we just be better at hiring"? And that's why she makes the big bucks   ( reuters.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Yahoo, CEO, computing, Yahoo employees, mobile computing, Evercore Partners, personal project, Ed Boyden  
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7592 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Mar 2013 at 11:16 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-03-12 10:00:17 AM  
14 votes:
Because the "best" people can see that Yahoo has no future.
2013-03-12 09:50:04 AM  
7 votes:
Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

/I'm ready to start immediately, anything in the six-figure range will be fine.
2013-03-12 10:35:51 AM  
6 votes:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way


I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.
2013-03-12 12:09:15 PM  
5 votes:

JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.


She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude
2013-03-12 11:41:23 AM  
5 votes:

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.
2013-03-12 12:25:38 PM  
4 votes:

Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude


And studies show work-from-home is more productive. So she's ignoring empirical reality and going with her gut.

If she was really concerned, maybe yahoo could track worker productivity at home vs work, but that would require them to work with information, data processing and analytics, which is way outside Yahoo's domain.
2013-03-12 12:12:44 PM  
4 votes:

timujin: It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


Its also the same line of thinking that keeps our CIA/FBI/NSA/etc agencies lacking in top anti-cyber-terrorist talent. because if you once made a mistake when you were 17 and did something stupid that most 17 year olds do, you are not allowed to work there.
2013-03-12 12:03:33 PM  
4 votes:
Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.
2013-03-12 11:36:37 AM  
4 votes:
I interviewed with a company a while back that required a degree from every employee, including low positions like interns, telephone operators, and secretaries.

I do not have my degree.  I have about 1.5-2 semesters to complete my degree, but I do not have the time, motivation, or money to do so...and quite frankly I've got enough work experience/sales experience/IT sales knowledge that it does not matter.

I am a sales guy...no amount of schooling will teach you to be a good salesperson.  Either you can communicate or cannot.  And in what I do, IT sales, either you have a basic understanding of how networks, storage, virtualization, and application development work or you don't.

Anyway, I am recruited by a sales manager through LinkedIn.  I never see an initial application or pre-screening questionnaire...I just email him my resume, which is quite clear that I did not complete college.  I go in for an initial interview and knock it out of the park.  I have two more interviews and I am good to go. I negotiate a fair salary and bonus plan...everything is going just fine.  At this point, I am waiting for the formal offer letter from HR...

I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job.  Stupid, stupid people running that company.  Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 10:24:05 AM  
4 votes:
Mayer insists on personally reviewing every new recruit, a practice that supporters say brings needed discipline to the company. Critics, however, say her high standards are hampering Yahoo's already challenged ability to fill vacancies.
Still, Yahoo has almost 900 jobs open, representing nearly 8 percent of its workforce of 11,500, according to its website. Some of the openings are months-old. In comparison, Google has almost 1,000 open jobs, but that is just 2 percent of a workforce that is more than four times the size of Yahoo's.


Standards or no standards, putting one person as the bottleneck for 900 hires is going to cause trouble.

But Yahoo needs to cut payroll, and her policies are doing that. An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.
2013-03-12 01:17:55 PM  
3 votes:
Unrealistic standards = job vacancies.
Job Vacancies = More H1B visa workers.
More H1B workers = Higher profits.
2013-03-12 12:40:04 PM  
3 votes:

Darke: Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...

Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.


My doctor didn't even want me to drive until two weeks after childbirth, and I had a really easy birth. A lot of women take at least six weeks to feel remotely normal, and that's without complications. Hemorrhage a bunch of blood or have a C-section? Expect recovery to take longer. Two weeks is CRAZY.
2013-03-12 12:33:19 PM  
3 votes:
She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.
2013-03-12 12:09:48 PM  
3 votes:
"I want to have the image, talent, and hard-working staff of Google, but i don't want to take care of the employees as they do"


Yeah, great plan there.
2013-03-12 12:09:11 PM  
3 votes:

GameSprocket: traylor: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.

It is true that the markets are going up for just about everything, but Yahoo was (and still kinda is) a joke. Everyone just expected it to roll over and die.


It is rolling over and dying.  It's just the scavangers have an interest in keeping it alive long enough to drain every last bit of blood out of the carcass before it goes.  Any signs of improvement are just a smokescreen until the leeches have been fully sated.
2013-03-12 11:39:08 AM  
3 votes:

RexTalionis: She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:


Some people who are really really good at one thing are really bad at others.  See also: Michael Jordan as a team owner.
2013-03-12 10:56:42 AM  
3 votes:

Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.


in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley
2013-03-12 10:37:37 AM  
3 votes:

Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO


That's such a rare occurrence.
2013-03-12 10:01:04 AM  
3 votes:
Lady, you're not Google.  Get over yourself.
2013-03-12 07:47:33 PM  
2 votes:

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor,


It's a stupid theory.

See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.
2013-03-12 04:49:58 PM  
2 votes:
I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.
2013-03-12 03:57:42 PM  
2 votes:
I'm an old-school system administrator.  That means I learned it the hard way long before there was much in the way of degrees for that type of job.  There really isn't a "system admin" degree, the closest you can get is information technology, which has serious definiciencies.  I'm very good at my job.  I have worked for Google and currently work for a major technology company.  I would have stayed at Google, but that was back when that biatch was in charge of hiring so I was unable to switch from contract to permanent since I did not meet her requirements, never mind that I did the job for an entire year and got rave reviews from my manager.

I get pinged by a yahoo recruiter every few months.  They seem to be a bit slow because I have repeatedly told them "not a farking chance in hell".  Maybe I should change that to, "tell that Mayer biatch to go to blow me and I'll consider it".
2013-03-12 03:09:11 PM  
2 votes:
Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.
2013-03-12 02:03:08 PM  
2 votes:
Huh. She cuts employee benefits, kills their telecommuting policy, and is surprised that she can't get talent?

In other news, tech companies with half a clue are still hiring, still offering lovely benefits, and are still offering telecommuting. If you're going to go work at Yahoo, it's because you got turned down at Microsoft, Oracle, Google, and any number of vertical tech companies with far better benefits.

Good luck with that. Your clueless CEO is going to run you into the ground, Yahoo. Buckle up.
2013-03-12 01:43:30 PM  
2 votes:

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.


Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!
2013-03-12 12:38:23 PM  
2 votes:

Darke: Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?


You're physically "recovered" enough to go back to work after a couple of days.  But most mothers prefer to stay home for about six weeks to bond with their infant, a process that most pediatricians agree is very important for the future mental and physical health of the child.

I suspect though, that a policy of woman coming back after a specific amount of time that's much shorter than average has more to do with the company not wanting the mom to change her mind about coming back at all.  Because that happens a fair amount as well.
2013-03-12 12:25:06 PM  
2 votes:
If she wants to review and approve EVERY applicant then she's going to drive away her top managers and disillusion her employees pretty quickly.  When the CEO rejects the qualified candidate that the manager has already selected, she's telling the manager that he sucks and is a retard.  That kind of thing doesn't go over well.  Plus the guy who's overwhelmed with work and has empty cubicles on either side of him is going to burn out pretty fast.

Problems:  A) CEO approving every hire - that's not the CEO's job; B) Setting arbitrary and irrelevant standards for new hires that have nothing to do with the work product.

If she wants to be "better at hiring" there's one sure-fire way to do it - PAY MORE.  Other than that, you have to widen your acceptable pool (not doing it) and/or make the workplace more inviting (totally blew it) so......good luck with that.
2013-03-12 12:24:17 PM  
2 votes:

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...


Things started going to shiat when they went from calling it "Personnel" and re-branded it "Human Resources"  Pretty much tells you what they think of you right there. You aren't a person, you are a bag of meat with a given value tagged on it, like coal, or oil, to be used and discarded/replaced as needed.
2013-03-12 12:21:58 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


She won't accept EEs? And what schools does she accept?

This is moronic. It's not like the top students from the top universities want to work at Yahoo. So they will get the crappy ones that are 1/10 as productive as a self-taught programmer with a passion.
2013-03-12 12:19:49 PM  
2 votes:

GameSprocket: Anyway, a "terrible CEO" is one that drives the company into the ground, not one that brings the stock price and profitability up.


If the last five years should have taught you anything, it's that driving a company into the ground often does bring the stock price and profitability up...for about 6 quarters. Then the BOD, CEO, and preferred stock owners liquidate the illusory profits, the employees find their retirement packages have mysteriously vanished, the creditors find themselves with a big stack of receivables, and the marks rubes suckers stockholders are left holding the bag.
2013-03-12 12:15:39 PM  
2 votes:
I would be curious to know how many universities (and which ones) are on her approved list.

I got my bachelor's in CS from a state college in 1990; since then, I have worked with many bright and talented engineers with similar educational backgrounds; I've even worked with a few who didn't have a degree. There are some very bright people don't go to MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/CMU/Harvard. And some of those people will work that much harder because they know that the name at the top of their diploma doesn't raise any eyebrows.
2013-03-12 12:14:11 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude


Even in the bigger picture, nursery aside, she is basically saying that, as a cutting edge internet-based company, the internet is not a viable method for getting "real" work done. Brick and Mortar!
2013-03-12 12:13:54 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: Still when I look at Mayer, and judge her performance so far, I can't hlep think she's a beneficiary of a fairly well documented pyschological phenomenon where men tend to think attractive women are more competent than they really are, and overlook mistakes they make. too many women are hired because they have a vagina [quotas].


FTFY

No, I'm not a misogynist. The VP of Marketing where I work is a woman and has turned out company from an also-ran to a world leader for brand recognition and trust. On the other hand, our VP of security was hired specifically because they needed a vagina on the board and she submitted her resume. She's barely qualified to be a desk clerk in a security guard uniform.
2013-03-12 12:01:58 PM  
2 votes:

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).
2013-03-12 11:54:38 AM  
2 votes:

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


yah obviously.

and how much time do you spend on Yahoo now that she is CEO?


exactly.
2013-03-12 11:51:29 AM  
2 votes:

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


If a CEO cuts staff by 2%, the stock will go up every time.  Does that mean that the CEO knows what they're doing?  Or does it mean that the stockholders are looking for different things than the real health of the company?
2013-03-12 11:49:35 AM  
2 votes:

RexTalionis: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:

[i1-mac.softpedia-static.com image 850x675]


I wonder why she settled for the information vomit that the new and improved? yahoo front page is.

I mean, they pared it down, but jebus.
2013-03-12 11:44:40 AM  
2 votes:
Man. I heard her on NPR the other day. She sounded really stupid. Like the way she spoke and the words she used just sounded completely unconvincing as far as CEO material goes. I'm so glad I didn't invest in Yahoo.
2013-03-12 11:12:04 AM  
2 votes:

Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.


I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.
2013-03-12 11:10:06 AM  
2 votes:

Magorn: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.
2013-03-12 10:59:33 AM  
2 votes:

GAT_00: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way

I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


I don't think I'm sexist, but I probably am.  Still when I look at Mayer, and judge her performance so far, I can't hlep think she's a beneficiary of a fairly well documented pyschological phenomenon where men tend to think attractive women are more competent than they really are, and overlook mistakes they make.
2013-03-12 10:27:51 AM  
2 votes:
"Why can't we just be good at hiring?" Mayer said, playing off a line from what she called one of her favorite movies, 1989's "Say Anything",

Serious red flag.

When I was in college, that was #3 on my list of red flags for potential bedmates, right between earwax candles and Gypsy Kings CDs.

This woman's going to end up pounding on someone's door at 3 AM sobbing, screaming something about being responsible for her own happiness and demanding her Proto Pipe back.
2013-03-13 08:48:49 PM  
1 vote:

stewbert: A lot of butthurt here from folks without degrees. I also know many idiots who stuck it out long enough to get a degree. I even know idiots with master's and PhD's.


After I contracted at Google for a year I had this to say about them, "The largest concentration of idiots with advanced degrees in the entire world."

I think my basic problem with them was such a huge number were fresh out of college and had no actual concept of how things actually worked in the real world.  I'm sure most of them will eventually become productive members of society, but they need to spend time in the trenches first.
2013-03-13 05:13:49 PM  
1 vote:

Shrugging Atlas: "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


So one can create multiple free email accounts for signing up for porn and trolling for trim on 4chan/SOC...
2013-03-13 02:19:57 AM  
1 vote:

Geotpf: poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.

I actually note a hint of sexism in all the well publicized attacks on her.  Not that they aren't valid critisims, but the fact that they are well publicized is the sexist part.  That is, lots of tech companies have morons for CEOs, but we keep hearing about her because she's a she.


It's not like she is a rock star always on Today or anything, right? Maybe the tech media is a bit sexist, but that's just how it is right now. She's not doing herself any favors by going on all these shows talking about how great she is when her policies are actually pretty bad and short-sighted. She gets no sympathy from me.

It's like the proverb said: better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
2013-03-12 10:10:58 PM  
1 vote:

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: OgreMagi:

When I was an Electronics major, I took a Pascal programming class for the hell of it.  It turned out I knew it better than the professor and he had the decency to recognize that fact in the class.  Yeah, I got an A.  It's hard to fail someone who does the homework assignment on paper, without verifying it on a computer, five minutes after he wrote the problem on the board, and I handed it in as I walked out.  I think he stopped bothering to grade my homework.

I just want you to know that when I say, "Oh my God", I'm thinking of you.

I bet you're quite handsome and I feel like I should write you a check for several thousand dollars.


Fark you very much for revealing yourself as a dumbass who has enmity toward people who succeed on their own.

Similar to OgreMagi's story, when I started college in an engineering curriculum, one of the required classed was "Introduction to Computer Science" (FORTRAN).  They were wise enough then (in 1986) to realize that it may be too BASIC (sorry, small joke in large font) for some and provided an optional, early exam in the 2nd week.  Pass it, you get an A.  Fail it, you continue attending the class and earn your grade.  What is wrong with that?  Nothing.  I think a student oughta be able to "CLEP" any class, not just the low level ones usually set aside for CLEPing.
2013-03-12 09:29:32 PM  
1 vote:

impaler: cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor,

It's a stupid theory.

See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.


Specialized case.  An MD comes with a bunch of on-the-job training.  It's not like most degrees.

Generally, I've found that having a degree is only weakly correlated to actual intelligence.  I've met plenty of very smart people who don't have degrees, and plenty of stupid people who do.  What it seems to measure more closely than intelligence is perseverance.
2013-03-12 08:59:48 PM  
1 vote:

midigod: Darke: Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

You're physically "recovered" enough to go back to work after a couple of days.  But most mothers prefer to stay home for about six weeks to bond with their infant, a process that most pediatricians agree is very important for the future mental and physical health of the child.

I suspect though, that a policy of woman coming back after a specific amount of time that's much shorter than average has more to do with the company not wanting the mom to change her mind about coming back at all.  Because that happens a fair amount as well.


You will ooze blood clots for about a month, and wake up every 2-3 hours around the clock to nurse the baby for at least twenty minutes at a time. Your breasts will leak every time you think of your baby or hear another baby cry. You will be weepy, irritable, suffer short-term memory loss and find yourself so madly in love with your baby that every moment away from him is a feeling of pure anguish. You'll forget when you last showered for a couple of months and doze off throughout the day for about a year.

That's when everything goes well, as I hope it does for you. Don't let some freak with a team of nannies make you feel you have to prove anything. The family leave policies in this country are disgraceful. And this woman? She's not helping.
2013-03-12 08:26:44 PM  
1 vote:

impaler: See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.


That's a stupid argument - you might face plenty of difficulty if not an outright impossibility in becoming a Doctor (big-D) -- but I see no reason why a person of considerable intelligence would not be able to learn the information on their own that would otherwise enable them to be a doctor.

But the analogy ends there - a doctor can perform reasonably well with a reasonable ongoing commitment to learning. A software developer on the other hand can practically throw away knowledge more than a few years old - obvious exceptions notwithstanding. It's only getting worse as the number of languages and frameworks balloon out. It doesn't matter per se - a good developer should be able to learn any of them, but if you need someone to say, fix something, and fast, you can't rely on that. So what matters more is the real world working knowledge that they currently possess. The equivalent would be going to a doctor and saying "Hey, so I don't have any of the organs you would expect, but can you diagnose what's wrong with me?" - zombie apocalypse aside, would you want a vet looking at you?
2013-03-12 07:53:48 PM  
1 vote:
As a software engineer, this woman is a clueless idiot. Not hiring people without degrees? Not allowing anyone to work from home? Way to turn back the clock 20 years to outdated business practices. No wonder no one wants to work there.
2013-03-12 07:41:40 PM  
1 vote:

Endive Wombat: dwrash: I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.

I had a Stats professor fail me for not doing the homework in college.  Seriously.  I set the curve not only for the class that I was in, but for the other like 5 classes he was teaching that semester.  He claims that I was cheating.  I appeal my case to the dean of the math department and retake the much more difficult final in the deans office, 6 feet from him and pass it.

Ultimately because it was the professors decision and class, he still failed me for not doing any of the homework.  Farking asshole.


This tells me that if you read a requirements doc and didn't feel like doing some of them, then you wouldn't bother to implement them. In my algorithms classes, I did exactly half the homework plus 1 question, told my prof that I wasn't going to submit the rest and was that a problem. Or were you under the impression that there would be no homework in the class? I'm guessing you didn't read the syllabus.
2013-03-12 07:32:10 PM  
1 vote:

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.


I'm guessing you don't have a degree.
2013-03-12 04:58:09 PM  
1 vote:

daveinsurgent: Software development is so young, ambiguous and so rapidly changing, that a degree really doesn't say a whole lot.


I'm neither for or anti degrees, and I'd say that there are advantages to doing a CS degree in terms of the foundations, and if you're going to do things like compiler design, you really need it.

But a lot of what I learnt on my college course 20+ years ago is almost irrelevant background noise to my job. I learnt how to code various sorts of sort routines. Know what I do now? Tell .net to just sort my list by a particular property. Because the difference between one sort mechanism with current CPU performance just isn't worth my time coding.

You want to know the best measure of a good developer that I've found? They're the people who also have a hobby development on the side. Doesn't matter if they custom built a retail store for their wife's embroidery, contribute to an open source project or if they write HTML5 games or sell utilities. Not only does it show they love doing it, and they're also practising what they do more, but typically when people do stuff on the side, they try new things out. And learning the new stuff saves you time and is a virtuous cycle of improvement.
2013-03-12 04:30:22 PM  
1 vote:

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.


Why would you suggest "average" is -10 to +20 around the standardized average? C'mon, you could at least use one standard deviation and say 85 to 115.
2013-03-12 04:13:24 PM  
1 vote:
This woman apparently went to the Carly Fiorina school of management.
2013-03-12 04:11:51 PM  
1 vote:

Magorn: dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!

My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his ...


This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.
2013-03-12 03:05:33 PM  
1 vote:

poot_rootbeer: GameSprocket: She has been CEO for 9 months. Even if she had an idea for a big technology launch when she was hired, it wouldn't be ready yet.

If she's truly capable of turning the company around, then I'd expect her to have brought at least a dozen small ideas for improvement to the table, most of which should have been accomplishable by this point.

It's an "agile" industry now, and corporations that measure their "pivot time" in years won't stay around for too long.


As has been drilled into us for the last half-decade, "three months is the new year." I'm working for a company right now that hasn't planned beyond CY 2013, because much of our future rides on the next 9 months (and three waves of releases.) Sounds like Yahoo better sack up.
2013-03-12 03:03:44 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: WhippingBoy: Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Let's be fair, here; Yahoo was into the death spiral well before Ms. Mayer arrived.


True, but at least the passengers were comfortable and the descent was slow. Now, the new pilot's told everyone that she wants trays up and belts buckled, because instead of that lazy spiral, she's going to augur that farker right into the friggin' ground. Oh, and she's going to eject before impact, floating serenely under her golden parachute, while everyone else enjoys a screaming, flaming demise.

She's the new class of "fark you, got mine" CEO - she's going to claim short-term reduction in operating costs, get a nice fat bonus, and then eject before the long-term results of her short-sightedness impacts her personal bottom line.
2013-03-12 02:29:43 PM  
1 vote:
As a college graduate, I'd never run a company that hired only college graduates. There's a lot of dumbasses out there that received degrees, and there's a lot of really smart people that never did.
wee
2013-03-12 02:28:44 PM  
1 vote:

dittybopper: Interesting thing about institutes of higher education: They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.


"Since I spent the time, money and frustration getting a degree, you should too."

I got an offer I couldn't refuse 2 months before I was going to graduate. Therefore, no degree. Not sure what a B.S. in Geosciences would do for me anyway.  Been working in IT without pause since 1995, though. So I suppose it's a moot point by now.  Most places trade experience for college.

I've found places that would turn me down because I have no degree aren't places I'd want want to work at anyway.  There was a Fortune 100 company I worked for that would send me an email every 6 months asking if I'd made "any updates to my educational status". I always responded in a "What did you learn over the summer, kids?" sort of way and they finally stopped annoying me.
2013-03-12 02:03:21 PM  
1 vote:

dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!


My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his CV and degrees so he could be properly introduced to the class, and he'd always say "I don't have one"
2013-03-12 01:54:19 PM  
1 vote:

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


Isn't that a thing that is done in Japan?  Like from grade school, to high school, through college...it is all for the purpose of getting a job either in a specific field, or at least based of the college, the specific company?  And if you did not attend this specific school, you cannot work at companies x,y, and z?   I seem to remember this being a thing..
2013-03-12 01:46:04 PM  
1 vote:

timujin: Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline

That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.


oooh i love hyperbole! americans are so good at it too.

no vpn=1950s!!!

do they smoke in the offices, slap the secretaries on the ass and not hire blacks and other unmentionables now too while chugging martinis at lunch?
2013-03-12 01:37:11 PM  
1 vote:
Yahoo was struggling with the perception that its best days are behind it, according to recruiting consultants.

Yeah, I wonder how people got that idea...
2013-03-12 01:30:36 PM  
1 vote:

mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.


What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.
2013-03-12 01:29:53 PM  
1 vote:
Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.
2013-03-12 01:10:14 PM  
1 vote:

mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her


Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?
2013-03-12 01:06:20 PM  
1 vote:

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.

If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Oh no doubt, its just...in my case, I did not know any of the job requirements going in.  I was reached out to, out of the blue.  Hell, there may not have been anything in the way of a job posting to begin with for all I know...
2013-03-12 01:04:56 PM  
1 vote:
Well, this is more of a csb than anything else - When I worked at IBM in the 90s, they provided statistics to the public that showed a new employee required 18 months of employment before the company made back the training time/education/benefits/bonus investments they made in each position. They had few positions that had requirements at that time for college degrees for even their IT departments because experience could be used in place of education. However, when they hired people with college computer related degrees, they cut that investment payback time to just over 8 months. I'm sure that investment payback timeframes have changed drastically with most people being computer literate, but if she can show a difference in investment/performance based on degree, she has a valid point. Most large companies have these numbers floating around in one of their finance/HR departments, so she just needs to strengthen her position and show her evidence. If she can't prove that argument, she only hurts both the company and her own reputation.
2013-03-12 01:00:52 PM  
1 vote:

midigod: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

If a CEO cuts staff by 2%, the stock will go up every time.  Does that mean that the CEO knows what they're doing?  Or does it mean that the stockholders are looking for different things than the real health of the company?


it worked so well for Carly Fiorina. I fully expect the same roaring success. Really, it's irrelevant whether a CEO has a cock or a cocksocket. A shortsighted CEO is a clueless twat.
2013-03-12 12:52:02 PM  
1 vote:

Darke: Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...

Is... is that not normal? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.


All I am saying...based off the articles that have come out as of late concerning this CEO's performance, style, and policies is that she seems...at least to me...to be embracing the "I am woman, hear me roar!!!" thing a bit much.  Shes enacting policies that really seem bizarre for a high tech company.  As stated above, her requiring everyone to work at the office is basically saying "yeah, I do not know if I trust this whole internet thing..."  Her requiring that she is to interview/vet every new hire is very dumb and totally unproductive...that is not the job of a CEO...she's basically pissing all over her managers and undermining them...

My wife and I do not have children yet.  That being said, I do think that aspects of the "American work ethic" are insane.  The first several weeks after child birth are for mommy and baby to bond.  The idea that work is more important than the child you are raising is sad.  There should be a clear differentiation between work life and home life, and this CEO is basically trying to meld the two, and personally I find that to be unacceptable.  This policy of non-telecommuting is bad for innovation.  Brilliance and inspiration does not necessarily exist between 9am-5pm.

I can also say, that if I had to deal with 10 screaming children in my office/row of cubes because the CEO barred telecommuting, I would be pissed.  I do not need to hear about lactating, breast pumps, diaper brands, etc...and that is the office environment I do not want to be in.
2013-03-12 12:51:39 PM  
1 vote:

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?
2013-03-12 12:51:31 PM  
1 vote:

Mentat: timujin: t's not "gets better" or "stays the same". The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely. She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company. This isn't IBM circa 1955. The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.

Yes, because what does a 13 year Google VP executive know about 21st Century tech business practices? Maybe she fails. She certainly wouldn't be the first Yahoo CEO to do so. But whatever Yahoo has done over the past ten years hasn't worked, so they might as well let her do her thing and see if it works out.


I was only pointing out that there's a third option beyond "gets better" or "stays the same".  My opinion, having been in this industry for a long time, is that she's making a mistake.  But it will shake out one way or another soon enough.

Here's the thing.  I'm moving to the westside and I will probably be looking for a job over there eventually.  Yahoo is definitely off my list.  Google, though...

/yeah, I get that they don't care, but that's kind of the point.
//actually, I'll probably end up at a studio, they've been coming after me pretty hard the last few months...
2013-03-12 12:50:01 PM  
1 vote:

ZAZ: Standards or no standards, putting one person as the bottleneck for 900 hires is going to cause trouble.

But Yahoo needs to cut payroll, and her policies are doing that. An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.


Except that it's an extraordinarily haphazard way to do that. What good are you achieving is a highly productive employee quits but a less productive employee, who doesn't care about telecommuting, stays? Instead of focusing on talent, she's just randomly throwing branches into the fire and calling it leadership.
2013-03-12 12:48:15 PM  
1 vote:
RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her
2013-03-12 12:45:59 PM  
1 vote:

Father_Jack: timujin: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.

yes and no.

yahoo was a listless mess when i was there in 2006 during the famous "peanut butter memo" debacle. its only gotten much much worse since then.

she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline. people are gonna get pissed and leave, sure. but the ones who stay will be on board with the new vision and be the core to try to rebuild it. you dont change culture without... changing culture. And that shiat is hard to do and really can only do it by stirring shiat up.

who knows if she'll have any success in it, but she's trying, and she's making her presence felt, and itll be interesting to see what success, if any, she brings.

Y! is a second rate company now, it wont be 1 again ever if it even ever was. But it can be cleaned up, old properties smashed up and decomissioned, made more productive and consolidated. it wouldnt be hard to do a lot of good at yahoo.

their core properties are mail, sports, finance, the homepage and my.yahoo, and news. start jettisoning the properties that dont bring naything in, and good stuff'll happen i bet.


I think the specific issue here is that she's not will to accept it's no longer a top tier company.  She only wants to hire top tier employees, except those types of people aren't even applying at Yahoo; they go to work at actual top tier companies like Google.
2013-03-12 12:45:13 PM  
1 vote:

Darke: Endive Wombat:  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Is... is that not normal?


It's normal in countries without paid maternity leave.  Whether it's desirable or optimal are separate questions.
2013-03-12 12:41:16 PM  
1 vote:

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Because we all know that current stock prices always accurately predict the health of a company.
2013-03-12 12:34:30 PM  
1 vote:

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


Fantasy sports?
wee
2013-03-12 12:32:57 PM  
1 vote:
Yahoo is known to be a marketing-driven company, not a tech-driven one.  She's got a serious uphill battle fighting that perception.

Lastly, Marissa is well-known to be a rolling biatch on wheels and difficult to work for.  So good luck with that.
2013-03-12 12:29:46 PM  
1 vote:

Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...


Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.
2013-03-12 12:29:28 PM  
1 vote:

Magorn: in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups. If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years? Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options. Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


And what happened to most of those 90's start-ups?  I seem to recall a lot of talk about "The New Economy" and how the laws of supply and demand had been conquered.  It turns out that it doesn't matter how talented you are if no one in your company actually knows how to run a business.  If Mayer is short-sighted for only hiring based on degree, it would seem to me to be just as short-sighted to black flag anyone that has a degree based on some internal bias you have regarding college.

timujin: t's not "gets better" or "stays the same". The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely. She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company. This isn't IBM circa 1955. The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


Yes, because what does a 13 year Google VP executive know about 21st Century tech business practices?  Maybe she fails.  She certainly wouldn't be the first Yahoo CEO to do so.  But whatever Yahoo has done over the past ten years hasn't worked, so they might as well let her do her thing and see if it works out.
2013-03-12 12:27:19 PM  
1 vote:

Endive Wombat: A piece of paper with your CS degree, and $100,000 in student loan debt, does not suddenly make you a more valuable employee over the self taught java developer...


employers dont care about your student debt, so youre confusing hireability from an employers perspective with the exchange you make as a student at a university vs. being self taught.

and youre damn straight an employer will take a CS degree over a self taughter, what are you high? you learn more in a good CS program than just "learning java". I can buy a rifle and go out to the firing range and "learn to shoot", does this mean i have the same skills as a guy who goes through Ranger School with the Army?

Ostensibly, getting a CS degree at a good university, will not only teach you how to program various computer languages, but also rewire your brain, train you how to think, and solve problems. this is different than being a "self taught java programmer".
2013-03-12 12:27:12 PM  
1 vote:
I've been in the software business for close to 20 years. Believing that a degree is necessary to write code is the mark of someone who is utterly incompetent and completely out of touch with reality. While Ms. Mayer certainly isn't responsible for Yahoo's slide, it seems she's just having some fun as the ship slides beneath the water.
2013-03-12 12:26:17 PM  
1 vote:

impaler: Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley

She won't accept EEs? And what schools does she accept?

This is moronic. It's not like the top students from the top universities want to work at Yahoo. So they will get the crappy ones that are 1/10 as productive as a self-taught programmer with a passion.


Its just going to become a magnet for the C+ average George Bushes of the world.

What do you call a surgeon that graduated at the bottom of his class? 'Doctor'
2013-03-12 12:17:03 PM  
1 vote:

IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).


That is an odd comment. One way to know if you are comparing similar things is if the things you are comparing are actually just one thing at different times.

It is hard to be a successful company if you can't keep the doors open. I once worked at a place that created the world's faster super-scalar supercomputer, but the company was shut down a few hours after the first one was fired up. The company was a success in creating the technology, but failed because it was completely funded by IBM right at the time when IBM started cutting back to concentrate on its core business.
2013-03-12 11:57:53 AM  
1 vote:

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off. She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement. She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated." I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job. Stupid, stupid people running that company. Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...


Reasons HR is overrated. In reality HR is pretty much identical to procurement but buying people instead of things. If the procurement doesn't like something about a specific order it will kick it back and force you to justify it, but it never tells a top manager that they CAN'T buy something because the specs don't fit whats on their fillin sheet.
2013-03-12 11:56:18 AM  
1 vote:

HotWingConspiracy: I wonder why she settled for the information vomit that the new and improved? yahoo front page is.

I mean, they pared it down, but jebus.


I hadn't seen their front page in over a year (amusingly enough), so I just took a look.  A RAV4 flew across my browser and landed in an ad frame.  No thanks, Yahoo.  Too tacky.
2013-03-12 11:56:05 AM  
1 vote:

Magorn: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


Well this describes me in the summer of 1996, got my first internship on the phone in my professor's office after he got a call from a colleague.  My boss insisted that I return to school and finish my degree.  Despite the good times of the dot com boom, you still needed a degree to be considered.

I know a developer who doesn't have a degree  -- he created a portfolio of applications and elegant code to show instead.  From a job hunting perspective, it's much harder than having a degree.
2013-03-12 11:55:09 AM  
1 vote:
I have to admit she has some policies that, on the face of it, seem agonizingly bad.  But it's refreshing to see someone actually making unpopular decisions instead of restructuring and making long speeches.  Yahoo will succeed or fail through her own decisions and merits.  And for those of you so sure Yahoo is going to fail - put $1000 down to short the stock.
2013-03-12 11:52:18 AM  
1 vote:

RexTalionis: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.


Then he is qualified for an honorary job at Yahoo!
2013-03-12 11:51:28 AM  
1 vote:
Yahoo was in deep trouble before she was hired.  But, yeah, I don't see her fixing the problem.
2013-03-12 11:48:08 AM  
1 vote:

traylor: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.


It is true that the markets are going up for just about everything, but Yahoo was (and still kinda is) a joke. Everyone just expected it to roll over and die.
2013-03-12 11:47:38 AM  
1 vote:

ZAZ: An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.


Saves the company that amount?

That's
the opposite
of true.
2013-03-12 11:36:28 AM  
1 vote:
I'm sure potential hires are eagerly awaiting questions about how to do quicksort or big-O notation that's going to be asked in interviews now.  Especially when their job consists mainly of writing webapps.
2013-03-12 11:31:35 AM  
1 vote:

soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.


Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.
2013-03-12 11:31:24 AM  
1 vote:

Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:

i1-mac.softpedia-static.com
2013-03-12 11:29:04 AM  
1 vote:

Nurglitch: show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.

I disagree. Dude's looking better than he has in a long time.


Too bad the virus he created is still around.
2013-03-12 11:25:54 AM  
1 vote:

Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


No seriously, why is yahoo still around?
2013-03-12 11:23:57 AM  
1 vote:
If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"
2013-03-12 11:19:06 AM  
1 vote:

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


Yeah, he created Apple and the legions of fanbois.
2013-03-12 10:50:11 AM  
1 vote:
First off, it seems to me that the creative developer types (the type that Yahoo needs) may not and probably don't have a degree.

The only way this makes sense is that she's looking for entry-level people that won't make as much as a seasoned developer (sans a degree).
2013-03-12 10:31:43 AM  
1 vote:
I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.
 
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