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(Reuters)   Yahoo employees complain to CEO that they still have 800 vacancies because she is a snob who only wants CS degrees and only from certain schools. Her response? "Why can't we just be better at hiring"? And that's why she makes the big bucks   (reuters.com) divider line 257
    More: Asinine, Yahoo, CEO, computing, Yahoo employees, mobile computing, Evercore Partners, personal project, Ed Boyden  
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7587 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Mar 2013 at 11:16 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 12:52:40 PM  

SDRR: CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?

So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?


I thought that was outlook.com now
 
2013-03-12 12:54:21 PM  

Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.


At the worst she kills off the source of my daily rage. Chris Chase.

The guy is like the Rick Romero of the sports world..... come to think of it it may be a pen-name.....
 
2013-03-12 12:55:37 PM  

show me: IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).

You are being disingenuous. You know that an absolute stock price is not a measure of a company's health, it's the change over time. At least I hope you know that.


I also know that stock price, PERIOD, is not a measure of a company's health.  Stock price doesn't mean crap if no one buys what you're selling.  And no one is buying what Yahoo's selling; all Meyer is doing is the equivalent to taxidermy.
 
2013-03-12 12:56:42 PM  

timujin: SDRR: CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?

So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?

I thought that was outlook.com now


I only use that for backpage.com
 
2013-03-12 12:58:00 PM  

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."


Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.
 
2013-03-12 01:00:21 PM  

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


This.

Why it's up I have no idea but I like it. I love it.
 
2013-03-12 01:00:52 PM  

midigod: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

If a CEO cuts staff by 2%, the stock will go up every time.  Does that mean that the CEO knows what they're doing?  Or does it mean that the stockholders are looking for different things than the real health of the company?


it worked so well for Carly Fiorina. I fully expect the same roaring success. Really, it's irrelevant whether a CEO has a cock or a cocksocket. A shortsighted CEO is a clueless twat.
 
2013-03-12 01:02:56 PM  

show me: IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).

You are being disingenuous. You know that an absolute stock price is not a measure of a company's health, it's the change over time. At least I hope you know that.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-12 01:04:06 PM  
I've got a 2nd callback over at Lycos.
 
2013-03-12 01:04:50 PM  
As I said last week (and was vehemently attacked for), she is a dooshbag coont who is overpaid and not capable of the position.
 
2013-03-12 01:04:56 PM  
Well, this is more of a csb than anything else - When I worked at IBM in the 90s, they provided statistics to the public that showed a new employee required 18 months of employment before the company made back the training time/education/benefits/bonus investments they made in each position. They had few positions that had requirements at that time for college degrees for even their IT departments because experience could be used in place of education. However, when they hired people with college computer related degrees, they cut that investment payback time to just over 8 months. I'm sure that investment payback timeframes have changed drastically with most people being computer literate, but if she can show a difference in investment/performance based on degree, she has a valid point. Most large companies have these numbers floating around in one of their finance/HR departments, so she just needs to strengthen her position and show her evidence. If she can't prove that argument, she only hurts both the company and her own reputation.
 
2013-03-12 01:06:20 PM  

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.

If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Oh no doubt, its just...in my case, I did not know any of the job requirements going in.  I was reached out to, out of the blue.  Hell, there may not have been anything in the way of a job posting to begin with for all I know...
 
2013-03-12 01:10:14 PM  

mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her


Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?
 
2013-03-12 01:15:08 PM  

RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?


Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.
 
2013-03-12 01:17:07 PM  

pkellmey: Well, this is more of a csb than anything else - When I worked at IBM in the 90s, they provided statistics to the public that showed a new employee required 18 months of employment before the company made back the training time/education/benefits/bonus investments they made in each position. They had few positions that had requirements at that time for college degrees for even their IT departments because experience could be used in place of education. However, when they hired people with college computer related degrees, they cut that investment payback time to just over 8 months. I'm sure that investment payback timeframes have changed drastically with most people being computer literate, but if she can show a difference in investment/performance based on degree, she has a valid point. Most large companies have these numbers floating around in one of their finance/HR departments, so she just needs to strengthen her position and show her evidence. If she can't prove that argument, she only hurts both the company and her own reputation.


As a general policy it may well be very sensible. But to make it a iron clad rule never to be broken, where a manager really wants a particular person as in Endive Wombat's case and HR can simply refuse, is stupid.  It's just another Zero Tolerance policy, no actual thought or common sense required.
 
2013-03-12 01:17:55 PM  
Unrealistic standards = job vacancies.
Job Vacancies = More H1B visa workers.
More H1B workers = Higher profits.
 
2013-03-12 01:20:08 PM  

mesmer242: She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.


When I took them, the line was that the LSATS gauged your reading comprehension, logic reasoning, and problem solving skills.  SO I see why she might have thought they'd be a good thing to test.  The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how  to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else

(No I'm not bitter, I hit the 98 percentile on the test because those puzzles are in my wheelhouse)
 
2013-03-12 01:22:10 PM  

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


Fantasy sports. They actually have a pretty decent engine. I'm just guessing but sports and sports talk are highly profitable, low cost arms.
 
2013-03-12 01:24:14 PM  

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


Yeah, he doesn't have 98.6 of them.
/37 for our metric friends
 
2013-03-12 01:26:53 PM  
So how long until an anonymous source from Yahoo tells the media, "Don't you think she looks tired?"
 
2013-03-12 01:29:53 PM  
Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.
 
2013-03-12 01:30:36 PM  

mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.


What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.
 
2013-03-12 01:33:12 PM  
 
2013-03-12 01:33:47 PM  

Nurglitch: show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.

I disagree. Dude's looking better than he has in a long time.


Certainly, his attitude has mellowed recently.
 
2013-03-12 01:34:56 PM  

timujin: mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.

What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.


Because she's the boss now.  Yahoo belongs to her.  It is no more complicated than that.
 
2013-03-12 01:37:11 PM  
Yahoo was struggling with the perception that its best days are behind it, according to recruiting consultants.

Yeah, I wonder how people got that idea...
 
2013-03-12 01:40:00 PM  
"Stopping the hemorrhaging is job one and I think she's accomplished that almost by virtue of her presence," said Neil Sims, a managing director with executive recruiting firm Boyden.

Sorry, I'm still having a hard time trusting anyone with Sim in their name.
 
2013-03-12 01:43:30 PM  

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.


Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!
 
rpm
2013-03-12 01:44:13 PM  

Father_Jack: and youre damn straight an employer will take a CS degree over a self taughter, what are you high? you learn more in a good CS program than just "learning java". I can buy a rifle and go out to the firing range and "learn to shoot", does this mean i have the same skills as a guy who goes through Ranger School with the Army?


I've improved database performance at a telecom by orders of magnitude. I've done several different types of computer security, including reporting exploitable flaws to MS. I've made Windows do things that it wasn't designed to do. I've co-founded tech companies. I've been called the "best coder he's ever known" by the author of one of the seminal AV books.

Yes, I have a degree, a Masters in fact. In Molecular Biology. Anyone in school who didn't really know me thought I was a CS major, and I was schooling some of the grad CS TAs. One marked off my test because he didn't understand that I did synchronization, and I had to explain the concept to him. I'm almost completely self taught.
 
2013-03-12 01:46:04 PM  

timujin: Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline

That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.


oooh i love hyperbole! americans are so good at it too.

no vpn=1950s!!!

do they smoke in the offices, slap the secretaries on the ass and not hire blacks and other unmentionables now too while chugging martinis at lunch?
 
2013-03-12 01:48:09 PM  
The sad thing is is that when Yahoo comes crashing down, people will point to her and Carly Fiorina and claim that women aren't suitable to lead tech companies.
 
2013-03-12 01:51:15 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSujceZDmg


That made me pop a boner.
 
2013-03-12 01:51:22 PM  

Endive Wombat: I interviewed with a company a while back that required a degree from every employee, including low positions like interns, telephone operators, and secretaries.

I do not have my degree.  I have about 1.5-2 semesters to complete my degree, but I do not have the time, motivation, or money to do so...and quite frankly I've got enough work experience/sales experience/IT sales knowledge that it does not matter.

I am a sales guy...no amount of schooling will teach you to be a good salesperson.  Either you can communicate or cannot.  And in what I do, IT sales, either you have a basic understanding of how networks, storage, virtualization, and application development work or you don't.

Anyway, I am recruited by a sales manager through LinkedIn.  I never see an initial application or pre-screening questionnaire...I just email him my resume, which is quite clear that I did not complete college.  I go in for an initial interview and knock it out of the park.  I have two more interviews and I am good to go. I negotiate a fair salary and bonus plan...everything is going just fine.  At this point, I am waiting for the formal offer letter from HR...

I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job.  Stupid, stupid people running that company.  Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...


There have been a variety of sales jobs that I've been looking at here and there that require at least a Bachelor's degree, but pay commission only and it's entry level.  I have never figured out why a company wants someone with a B.S. to go around the country selling their product over someone who only has a high school diploma.  I would figure that a person living on pure commission for five years would be qualified for almost any sales position.
 
2013-03-12 01:52:02 PM  

Magorn: mesmer242: She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.

When I took them, the line was that the LSATS gauged your reading comprehension, logic reasoning, and problem solving skills.  SO I see why she might have thought they'd be a good thing to test.  The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how  to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else

(No I'm not bitter, I hit the 98 percentile on the test because those puzzles are in my wheelhouse)


Yes, that's why I think it's stupid. I both studied standardized tests from an academic perspective, as well as taught standardized test classes for one of the major companies (not the LSAT though). Academic tests are a weak predictor of academic success, and work best when combined with other information such as GPA in previous academic endeavors. And predicting workplace success based on the LSAT is even less likely, as a large scale empirical study of lawyers rated on various positive attributes showed that most correlations were very weak (.1 or less) and some were actually negative (-.19 on networking).

There are people that argue that IQ testing shows a correlation with job success, but there have also been studies that show that over a certain IQ (115 or so), there's almost no difference. The strongest correlations are when people go into a job with no previous experience.

What gets me is they weren't talking about introducing these tests into the hiring process - they were talking about making admins already working there take the tests. At that point, there are better measures of job success, like, you know, if they can do their farking job. Giving any kind of standardized test to your existing staff isn't a empirically supported performance improvement measure.... It's a cop out to fire a bunch of people without getting sued, or it's a delusional misunderstanding of what those tests are actually good for.
 
2013-03-12 01:52:09 PM  

dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!


COBOL is worthless without JCL.  I happen to know both.

/Left IT, thinking of coming back into the fold.
 
2013-03-12 01:54:08 PM  

dittybopper: timujin: mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.

What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.

Because she's the boss now.  Yahoo belongs to her.  It is no more complicated than that.


Another interesting article on the subject.

These "tightened" recruiting measures include a personal meeting with Mayer for every candidate, something Sandberg used to do at Google, which might be where Mayer picked up her knack for HR involvement. But Sandberg realized that her "insistence on speaking personally to every candidate had become a huge bottleneck," . The same thing has started happening at Yahoo, according to a former executive who spoke with Reuters: "One person we wanted waited eight weeks, then they inevitably got another offer."

Yahoo doesn't have the luxury of turning down a lot of highly qualified people right now. It doesn't have the same prestige as Google or Facebook. Mayer's trying to change that, in part by attracting the best workers. But her drive to hire the best of Silicon Valley may, in fact, be turning these best people away.


/edited for your enjoyment
 
2013-03-12 01:54:19 PM  

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


Isn't that a thing that is done in Japan?  Like from grade school, to high school, through college...it is all for the purpose of getting a job either in a specific field, or at least based of the college, the specific company?  And if you did not attend this specific school, you cannot work at companies x,y, and z?   I seem to remember this being a thing..
 
2013-03-12 02:00:24 PM  

Father_Jack: timujin: Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline

That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.

oooh i love hyperbole! americans are so good at it too.

no vpn=1950s!!!

do they smoke in the offices, slap the secretaries on the ass and not hire blacks and other unmentionables now too while chugging martinis at lunch?


Wow, sarcasm.  That's okay, but you have a problem with hyperbole.

And I was referring to the requirement for a college degree from a restricted list of acceptable universities when applied to IT staff.  There is no longer a correlation between a prestigious degree and ability to do well in the field.  I never mentioned the work-from-home issue, which is also dumb, just not as dumb.
 
2013-03-12 02:03:08 PM  
Huh. She cuts employee benefits, kills their telecommuting policy, and is surprised that she can't get talent?

In other news, tech companies with half a clue are still hiring, still offering lovely benefits, and are still offering telecommuting. If you're going to go work at Yahoo, it's because you got turned down at Microsoft, Oracle, Google, and any number of vertical tech companies with far better benefits.

Good luck with that. Your clueless CEO is going to run you into the ground, Yahoo. Buckle up.
 
2013-03-12 02:03:21 PM  

dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!


My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his CV and degrees so he could be properly introduced to the class, and he'd always say "I don't have one"
 
2013-03-12 02:05:57 PM  

tdyak: COBOL is worthless without JCL


FTFY.  I know it, and avoid it like the plague.  There are some legacy reports and the like here at my work that are in COBOL, but we've frozen them and when someone wants them modified, we tell them we can't do that, but we can re-write them (with the new features added, of course) in something else.    Conscious, bottom up decision by the programmers and the DBA to gradually phase it out here.
 
2013-03-12 02:09:31 PM  

Magorn: At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his CV and degrees so he could be properly introduced to the class, and he'd always say "I don't have one"


Interesting thing about institutes of higher education:  They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.
 
2013-03-12 02:18:26 PM  
usually college degree threads are full of STEM majors looking down on everyone else.

why are they not here to look down on developers without degrees?
 
2013-03-12 02:21:12 PM  

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


That assumes that everyone at these schools has the same very specific area of study. Even by narrowing the pool to a few schools and degrees, there's likely a high level of diversity.

I mean, the big consulting firms like McKinsey recruit from just a handfull of the top business schools. I don't think they've suffered by ignoring people who didn't go to a top 10 business school. Ditto for the major law firms and top law schools.
 
2013-03-12 02:22:06 PM  

dumbobruni: usually college degree threads are full of STEM majors looking down on everyone else.

why are they not here to look down on developers without degrees?


Because they didn't waste money on a worthless degree.

/I kid
 
2013-03-12 02:22:52 PM  
She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?
 
2013-03-12 02:24:18 PM  
I don't understand why Yahoo's every move is still breathlessly reported on by tech and business media.  When's the last time this company was really relevant?
 
2013-03-12 02:27:31 PM  
When I started at my last job over a decade ago, the president of the division I worked in was a woman. Everybody loved her. She was always out on the floor talking to people, understood their problems and tried to make it feel like you weren't just a number. Everyone worked hard because management under her was generous to those who showed effort. Promotions and raises... etc could be had.

Then the forces that be made her retire. They replaced her with another woman. This new divisional president seemed nice enough at first but then she started cutting. In the beginning it was things that maybe should have been cut. A consolidation of print vendors, a review of the IT/computer systems, stopping old practices that we were almost the last in the industry doing. And if the numbers were true, she doubled profit margins in about six months from just trimming excess. All seemed fine at the six month mark. Then she went off the rails and kept cutting. Outsourcing one department, then another, then another. Raises and bonuses went from about 3 or 4 percent  to a 1 percent raise and a $1000.00 bonus. After a few years it was found out that everyone got that regardless of their performance. Promotions went the way of the dodo and almost no one new was hired except on the phones because they had such a large turnover rate. Last I heard, the cutting is still going on, no more paper coffee cups in the break rooms and the coffee is now something like a buck last I heard....

So there are good managers and bad ones, gender doesn't matter.

/CSB
 
2013-03-12 02:27:32 PM  

Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?


Reading your screenname and missing her on NBC.

/"Oh...dear...I almost said Bon Jon Bovi...I'm so nervous."
/"Jon, are you going to be doing anymore Allie McBeals?"
/"I don't know, Katie, I kind of have this day job here...making music with my band."
 
wee
2013-03-12 02:28:44 PM  

dittybopper: Interesting thing about institutes of higher education: They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.


"Since I spent the time, money and frustration getting a degree, you should too."

I got an offer I couldn't refuse 2 months before I was going to graduate. Therefore, no degree. Not sure what a B.S. in Geosciences would do for me anyway.  Been working in IT without pause since 1995, though. So I suppose it's a moot point by now.  Most places trade experience for college.

I've found places that would turn me down because I have no degree aren't places I'd want want to work at anyway.  There was a Fortune 100 company I worked for that would send me an email every 6 months asking if I'd made "any updates to my educational status". I always responded in a "What did you learn over the summer, kids?" sort of way and they finally stopped annoying me.
 
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