If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   Yahoo employees complain to CEO that they still have 800 vacancies because she is a snob who only wants CS degrees and only from certain schools. Her response? "Why can't we just be better at hiring"? And that's why she makes the big bucks   (reuters.com) divider line 257
    More: Asinine, Yahoo, CEO, computing, Yahoo employees, mobile computing, Evercore Partners, personal project, Ed Boyden  
•       •       •

7585 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Mar 2013 at 11:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



257 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-03-12 09:50:04 AM
Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

/I'm ready to start immediately, anything in the six-figure range will be fine.
 
2013-03-12 10:00:17 AM
Because the "best" people can see that Yahoo has no future.
 
2013-03-12 10:01:04 AM
Lady, you're not Google.  Get over yourself.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 10:24:05 AM
Mayer insists on personally reviewing every new recruit, a practice that supporters say brings needed discipline to the company. Critics, however, say her high standards are hampering Yahoo's already challenged ability to fill vacancies.
Still, Yahoo has almost 900 jobs open, representing nearly 8 percent of its workforce of 11,500, according to its website. Some of the openings are months-old. In comparison, Google has almost 1,000 open jobs, but that is just 2 percent of a workforce that is more than four times the size of Yahoo's.


Standards or no standards, putting one person as the bottleneck for 900 hires is going to cause trouble.

But Yahoo needs to cut payroll, and her policies are doing that. An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.
 
2013-03-12 10:27:51 AM
"Why can't we just be good at hiring?" Mayer said, playing off a line from what she called one of her favorite movies, 1989's "Say Anything",

Serious red flag.

When I was in college, that was #3 on my list of red flags for potential bedmates, right between earwax candles and Gypsy Kings CDs.

This woman's going to end up pounding on someone's door at 3 AM sobbing, screaming something about being responsible for her own happiness and demanding her Proto Pipe back.
 
2013-03-12 10:29:51 AM

Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.


Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way
 
2013-03-12 10:31:43 AM
I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.
 
2013-03-12 10:35:51 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way


I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.
 
2013-03-12 10:37:37 AM

Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO


That's such a rare occurrence.
 
2013-03-12 10:50:11 AM
First off, it seems to me that the creative developer types (the type that Yahoo needs) may not and probably don't have a degree.

The only way this makes sense is that she's looking for entry-level people that won't make as much as a seasoned developer (sans a degree).
 
2013-03-12 10:56:42 AM

Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.


in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley
 
2013-03-12 10:59:33 AM

GAT_00: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way

I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


I don't think I'm sexist, but I probably am.  Still when I look at Mayer, and judge her performance so far, I can't hlep think she's a beneficiary of a fairly well documented pyschological phenomenon where men tend to think attractive women are more competent than they really are, and overlook mistakes they make.
 
2013-03-12 11:10:06 AM

Magorn: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.
 
2013-03-12 11:11:22 AM

GAT_00: such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home,


Actually, the new nursery is next to her office at work.

I bet she would be a crazy good lay, but if you didn't perform up to snuff she would use her kung-fu-like kegel training to snap your dick off.
 
2013-03-12 11:12:04 AM

Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.


I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.
 
2013-03-12 11:19:06 AM

Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.


Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.
 
2013-03-12 11:19:06 AM

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


Yeah, he created Apple and the legions of fanbois.
 
2013-03-12 11:19:52 AM
this lady is a terrible CEO.
 
2013-03-12 11:21:32 AM

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


I disagree. Dude's looking better than he has in a long time.
 
2013-03-12 11:23:57 AM
If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"
 
2013-03-12 11:25:54 AM

Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


No seriously, why is yahoo still around?
 
2013-03-12 11:27:02 AM

Magorn: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


That is how I got my job right. My instructor gave my company my name and I was hired long before graduating. I was able to come up with ideas and creative approaches that those who were a little more technical studied that let me shine and eventually went on to lead the whole department. Sure you end up with a high learning curve in the field, but those that can handle it tend to thrive.
 
2013-03-12 11:29:04 AM

Nurglitch: show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.

I disagree. Dude's looking better than he has in a long time.


Too bad the virus he created is still around.
 
2013-03-12 11:31:24 AM

Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:

i1-mac.softpedia-static.com
 
2013-03-12 11:31:35 AM

soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.


Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.
 
2013-03-12 11:35:26 AM
The company is in decline, she tries something different, and people act like she's ruining the company because it needs to just keep staying the course.
 
2013-03-12 11:36:28 AM
I'm sure potential hires are eagerly awaiting questions about how to do quicksort or big-O notation that's going to be asked in interviews now.  Especially when their job consists mainly of writing webapps.
 
2013-03-12 11:36:37 AM
I interviewed with a company a while back that required a degree from every employee, including low positions like interns, telephone operators, and secretaries.

I do not have my degree.  I have about 1.5-2 semesters to complete my degree, but I do not have the time, motivation, or money to do so...and quite frankly I've got enough work experience/sales experience/IT sales knowledge that it does not matter.

I am a sales guy...no amount of schooling will teach you to be a good salesperson.  Either you can communicate or cannot.  And in what I do, IT sales, either you have a basic understanding of how networks, storage, virtualization, and application development work or you don't.

Anyway, I am recruited by a sales manager through LinkedIn.  I never see an initial application or pre-screening questionnaire...I just email him my resume, which is quite clear that I did not complete college.  I go in for an initial interview and knock it out of the park.  I have two more interviews and I am good to go. I negotiate a fair salary and bonus plan...everything is going just fine.  At this point, I am waiting for the formal offer letter from HR...

I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job.  Stupid, stupid people running that company.  Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...
 
2013-03-12 11:38:24 AM

GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.



The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.
 
2013-03-12 11:39:08 AM

RexTalionis: She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:


Some people who are really really good at one thing are really bad at others.  See also: Michael Jordan as a team owner.
 
2013-03-12 11:41:23 AM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.
 
2013-03-12 11:43:36 AM

JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.


Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...
 
2013-03-12 11:44:40 AM
Man. I heard her on NPR the other day. She sounded really stupid. Like the way she spoke and the words she used just sounded completely unconvincing as far as CEO material goes. I'm so glad I didn't invest in Yahoo.
 
2013-03-12 11:47:38 AM

ZAZ: An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.


Saves the company that amount?

That's
the opposite
of true.
 
2013-03-12 11:48:08 AM

traylor: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.


It is true that the markets are going up for just about everything, but Yahoo was (and still kinda is) a joke. Everyone just expected it to roll over and die.
 
2013-03-12 11:49:35 AM

RexTalionis: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:

[i1-mac.softpedia-static.com image 850x675]


I wonder why she settled for the information vomit that the new and improved? yahoo front page is.

I mean, they pared it down, but jebus.
 
2013-03-12 11:51:28 AM
Yahoo was in deep trouble before she was hired.  But, yeah, I don't see her fixing the problem.
 
2013-03-12 11:51:29 AM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


If a CEO cuts staff by 2%, the stock will go up every time.  Does that mean that the CEO knows what they're doing?  Or does it mean that the stockholders are looking for different things than the real health of the company?
 
2013-03-12 11:51:37 AM
Well she has to be clueless if she's the CEO because that's what CEO stands for - Clueless Entity in an Organization.
 
2013-03-12 11:52:07 AM
20%.

FTFM.
 
2013-03-12 11:52:18 AM

RexTalionis: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.


Then he is qualified for an honorary job at Yahoo!
 
2013-03-12 11:54:38 AM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


yah obviously.

and how much time do you spend on Yahoo now that she is CEO?


exactly.
 
2013-03-12 11:55:09 AM
I have to admit she has some policies that, on the face of it, seem agonizingly bad.  But it's refreshing to see someone actually making unpopular decisions instead of restructuring and making long speeches.  Yahoo will succeed or fail through her own decisions and merits.  And for those of you so sure Yahoo is going to fail - put $1000 down to short the stock.
 
2013-03-12 11:55:21 AM
Why can't you just produce a product/service anyone gives a shiat about?
 
2013-03-12 11:56:05 AM

Magorn: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.  If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years?  Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options.   Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


Well this describes me in the summer of 1996, got my first internship on the phone in my professor's office after he got a call from a colleague.  My boss insisted that I return to school and finish my degree.  Despite the good times of the dot com boom, you still needed a degree to be considered.

I know a developer who doesn't have a degree  -- he created a portfolio of applications and elegant code to show instead.  From a job hunting perspective, it's much harder than having a degree.
 
2013-03-12 11:56:18 AM

HotWingConspiracy: I wonder why she settled for the information vomit that the new and improved? yahoo front page is.

I mean, they pared it down, but jebus.


I hadn't seen their front page in over a year (amusingly enough), so I just took a look.  A RAV4 flew across my browser and landed in an ad frame.  No thanks, Yahoo.  Too tacky.
 
2013-03-12 11:56:43 AM

GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


We get it - you don't like her for some arbitrary reason.  But she did not "ban mothers from staying home with their kids".  If you are going to bash an individuals job performance - at least come up with something real.

/anyone who makes it a point to state 'gender is irrelevant' has an issue with it
 
2013-03-12 11:57:53 AM

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off. She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement. She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated." I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job. Stupid, stupid people running that company. Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...


Reasons HR is overrated. In reality HR is pretty much identical to procurement but buying people instead of things. If the procurement doesn't like something about a specific order it will kick it back and force you to justify it, but it never tells a top manager that they CAN'T buy something because the specs don't fit whats on their fillin sheet.
 
2013-03-12 11:58:44 AM

Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.


It's a win-win!

/For her.
//For Yahoo, not so much, either way.
 
2013-03-12 12:01:11 PM
FTFA: Mayer insists on personally reviewing every new recruit, a practice that

I respect her more for that.  Anyways, many of the vacancies might be unnecessary in the future if she institutes changes.  Yahoo sucked before, and I don't understand the hate she's getting for trying to change that.
 
2013-03-12 12:01:58 PM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).
 
2013-03-12 12:03:33 PM
Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.
 
2013-03-12 12:04:13 PM

IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).


er, Ford has almost 3 times as many shares outstanding as GM
 
2013-03-12 12:08:50 PM

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


Though a liberal application of Degree may help with the smell.
/not sure that body responsive is the  best choice however

i.walmartimages.com
 
2013-03-12 12:09:11 PM

GameSprocket: traylor: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.

It is true that the markets are going up for just about everything, but Yahoo was (and still kinda is) a joke. Everyone just expected it to roll over and die.


It is rolling over and dying.  It's just the scavangers have an interest in keeping it alive long enough to drain every last bit of blood out of the carcass before it goes.  Any signs of improvement are just a smokescreen until the leeches have been fully sated.
 
2013-03-12 12:09:15 PM

JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.


She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude
 
2013-03-12 12:09:48 PM
"I want to have the image, talent, and hard-working staff of Google, but i don't want to take care of the employees as they do"


Yeah, great plan there.
 
2013-03-12 12:12:02 PM

tforbes: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

yah obviously.

and how much time do you spend on Yahoo now that she is CEO?


exactly.


1 billion times as much time.

She has been CEO for 9 months. Even if she had an idea for a big technology launch when she was hired, it wouldn't be ready yet.

Anyway, a "terrible CEO" is one that drives the company into the ground, not one that brings the stock price and profitability up.
 
2013-03-12 12:12:44 PM

timujin: It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


Its also the same line of thinking that keeps our CIA/FBI/NSA/etc agencies lacking in top anti-cyber-terrorist talent. because if you once made a mistake when you were 17 and did something stupid that most 17 year olds do, you are not allowed to work there.
 
2013-03-12 12:13:54 PM

Magorn: Still when I look at Mayer, and judge her performance so far, I can't hlep think she's a beneficiary of a fairly well documented pyschological phenomenon where men tend to think attractive women are more competent than they really are, and overlook mistakes they make.

too many women are hired because they have a vagina [quotas].

FTFY

No, I'm not a misogynist. The VP of Marketing where I work is a woman and has turned out company from an also-ran to a world leader for brand recognition and trust. On the other hand, our VP of security was hired specifically because they needed a vagina on the board and she submitted her resume. She's barely qualified to be a desk clerk in a security guard uniform.
 
2013-03-12 12:14:11 PM

Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude


Even in the bigger picture, nursery aside, she is basically saying that, as a cutting edge internet-based company, the internet is not a viable method for getting "real" work done. Brick and Mortar!
 
2013-03-12 12:15:39 PM
I would be curious to know how many universities (and which ones) are on her approved list.

I got my bachelor's in CS from a state college in 1990; since then, I have worked with many bright and talented engineers with similar educational backgrounds; I've even worked with a few who didn't have a degree. There are some very bright people don't go to MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/CMU/Harvard. And some of those people will work that much harder because they know that the name at the top of their diploma doesn't raise any eyebrows.
 
2013-03-12 12:16:07 PM

wxboy: Because the "best" people can see that Yahoo has no future.


THIS!!! Yahoo hasn't been relevant for a while now.
 
2013-03-12 12:17:03 PM

IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).


That is an odd comment. One way to know if you are comparing similar things is if the things you are comparing are actually just one thing at different times.

It is hard to be a successful company if you can't keep the doors open. I once worked at a place that created the world's faster super-scalar supercomputer, but the company was shut down a few hours after the first one was fired up. The company was a success in creating the technology, but failed because it was completely funded by IBM right at the time when IBM started cutting back to concentrate on its core business.
 
2013-03-12 12:18:17 PM

LemSkroob: Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude

Even in the bigger picture, nursery aside, she is basically saying that, as a cutting edge internet-based company, the internet is not a viable method for getting "real" work done. Brick and Mortar!


It is funny to see a company dismiss their business model. We're looking to implement a customer relationship management tool and we almost immediately dismissed any "cloud based" solution. We're a cloud based company. You can't explain that.
 
2013-03-12 12:18:36 PM

MindStalker: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off. She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement. She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated." I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job. Stupid, stupid people running that company. Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...

Reasons HR is overrated. In reality HR is pretty much identical to procurement but buying people instead of things. If the procurement doesn't like something about a specific order it will kick it back and force you to justify it, but it never tells a top manager that they CAN'T buy something because the specs don't fit whats on their fillin sheet.


Which is where ownership's opinion/desires kicked in...HR was simply enforcing a directive from ownership.  Either way, I think we can agree that this is just bad policy.

I do not think that I would go so far as to say that college is overrated, but there are jobs out there that simply do not require a degree and there are some brilliant folks out there that recognize that college/formal education is not for them.  I really hated college...yea I learned a lot, and I had some great professors...but college was not really for me at all...I struggled with it.

A piece of paper with your CS degree, and $100,000 in student loan debt, does not suddenly make you a more valuable employee over the self taught java developer...
 
2013-03-12 12:18:55 PM

JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.


This is what I don't get- She is the CEO, in control of every aspect of the entire operation. It's just a tad different than the accountant or whatever who was working from home and is now put out. Is it just easier to be outraged?
 
2013-03-12 12:19:42 PM

IlGreven: GameSprocket: traylor: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Yeah, but Google's stock is up 43% since she left the company.

It is true that the markets are going up for just about everything, but Yahoo was (and still kinda is) a joke. Everyone just expected it to roll over and die.

It is rolling over and dying.  It's just the scavangers have an interest in keeping it alive long enough to drain every last bit of blood out of the carcass before it goes.  Any signs of improvement are just a smokescreen until the leeches have been fully sated.


That could be. My only point was that there is no measure that indicates that Mayer is a terrible CEO. The company can still be shiat.
 
2013-03-12 12:19:49 PM

GameSprocket: Anyway, a "terrible CEO" is one that drives the company into the ground, not one that brings the stock price and profitability up.


If the last five years should have taught you anything, it's that driving a company into the ground often does bring the stock price and profitability up...for about 6 quarters. Then the BOD, CEO, and preferred stock owners liquidate the illusory profits, the employees find their retirement packages have mysteriously vanished, the creditors find themselves with a big stack of receivables, and the marks rubes suckers stockholders are left holding the bag.
 
2013-03-12 12:20:44 PM

IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).


You are being disingenuous. You know that an absolute stock price is not a measure of a company's health, it's the change over time. At least I hope you know that.
 
2013-03-12 12:21:01 PM

timujin: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


yes and no.

yahoo was a listless mess when i was there in 2006 during the famous "peanut butter memo" debacle. its only gotten much much worse since then.

she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline. people are gonna get pissed and leave, sure. but the ones who stay will be on board with the new vision and be the core to try to rebuild it. you dont change culture without... changing culture. And that shiat is hard to do and really can only do it by stirring shiat up.

who knows if she'll have any success in it, but she's trying, and she's making her presence felt, and itll be interesting to see what success, if any, she brings.

Y! is a second rate company now, it wont be 1 again ever if it even ever was. But it can be cleaned up, old properties smashed up and decomissioned, made more productive and consolidated. it wouldnt be hard to do a lot of good at yahoo.

their core properties are mail, sports, finance, the homepage and my.yahoo, and news. start jettisoning the properties that dont bring naything in, and good stuff'll happen i bet.
 
2013-03-12 12:21:58 PM

Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


She won't accept EEs? And what schools does she accept?

This is moronic. It's not like the top students from the top universities want to work at Yahoo. So they will get the crappy ones that are 1/10 as productive as a self-taught programmer with a passion.
 
2013-03-12 12:24:17 PM

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...


Things started going to shiat when they went from calling it "Personnel" and re-branded it "Human Resources"  Pretty much tells you what they think of you right there. You aren't a person, you are a bag of meat with a given value tagged on it, like coal, or oil, to be used and discarded/replaced as needed.
 
2013-03-12 12:24:57 PM
Yeah might as well park the domain and collect some revenue.
 
2013-03-12 12:25:06 PM
If she wants to review and approve EVERY applicant then she's going to drive away her top managers and disillusion her employees pretty quickly.  When the CEO rejects the qualified candidate that the manager has already selected, she's telling the manager that he sucks and is a retard.  That kind of thing doesn't go over well.  Plus the guy who's overwhelmed with work and has empty cubicles on either side of him is going to burn out pretty fast.

Problems:  A) CEO approving every hire - that's not the CEO's job; B) Setting arbitrary and irrelevant standards for new hires that have nothing to do with the work product.

If she wants to be "better at hiring" there's one sure-fire way to do it - PAY MORE.  Other than that, you have to widen your acceptable pool (not doing it) and/or make the workplace more inviting (totally blew it) so......good luck with that.
 
2013-03-12 12:25:38 PM

Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude


And studies show work-from-home is more productive. So she's ignoring empirical reality and going with her gut.

If she was really concerned, maybe yahoo could track worker productivity at home vs work, but that would require them to work with information, data processing and analytics, which is way outside Yahoo's domain.
 
2013-03-12 12:26:17 PM

impaler: Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley

She won't accept EEs? And what schools does she accept?

This is moronic. It's not like the top students from the top universities want to work at Yahoo. So they will get the crappy ones that are 1/10 as productive as a self-taught programmer with a passion.


Its just going to become a magnet for the C+ average George Bushes of the world.

What do you call a surgeon that graduated at the bottom of his class? 'Doctor'
 
2013-03-12 12:27:12 PM
I've been in the software business for close to 20 years. Believing that a degree is necessary to write code is the mark of someone who is utterly incompetent and completely out of touch with reality. While Ms. Mayer certainly isn't responsible for Yahoo's slide, it seems she's just having some fun as the ship slides beneath the water.
 
2013-03-12 12:27:19 PM

Endive Wombat: A piece of paper with your CS degree, and $100,000 in student loan debt, does not suddenly make you a more valuable employee over the self taught java developer...


employers dont care about your student debt, so youre confusing hireability from an employers perspective with the exchange you make as a student at a university vs. being self taught.

and youre damn straight an employer will take a CS degree over a self taughter, what are you high? you learn more in a good CS program than just "learning java". I can buy a rifle and go out to the firing range and "learn to shoot", does this mean i have the same skills as a guy who goes through Ranger School with the Army?

Ostensibly, getting a CS degree at a good university, will not only teach you how to program various computer languages, but also rewire your brain, train you how to think, and solve problems. this is different than being a "self taught java programmer".
 
2013-03-12 12:28:02 PM

cefm: Problems:  A) CEO approving every hire - that's not the CEO's job; B) Setting arbitrary and irrelevant standards for new hires that have nothing to do with the work product.


Come on now. Despite that it's obviously moronic, it shows she's willing to initiate bold unpopular ideas - just what the company needs!
 
2013-03-12 12:29:12 PM

Endive Wombat: A piece of paper with your CS degree, and $100,000 in student loan debt, does not suddenly make you a more valuable employee over the self taught java developer...


I partially agree, the CS degree demonstrates that the prospective employee is able to successfully navigate workloads they may not particularly enjoy and to quickly learn new topics whether they want to or not.  Without trying to make too many assumptions its likely a safer bet to go for that person over the self-taught who may be awesome at Java but might actively dig in their heels if asked to do something they don't like or uncomfortable with.

There's merits to both but in the end those without the degrees and under 40 in this field are a higher risk, no denying that I think
 
2013-03-12 12:29:28 PM

Magorn: in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups. If you were any good, the thinking went, why would you have hung around in college for four years? Instead a lot of the best and brightest were ID'ed by their professors who tipped off their friends running start-ups and they were whisked away to six figure salaries and stock options. Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE) and from the "right" schools (incuding her alma mater -natch), pretty much eliminates a huge talent pool that includes some of the most innovative people in the valley


And what happened to most of those 90's start-ups?  I seem to recall a lot of talk about "The New Economy" and how the laws of supply and demand had been conquered.  It turns out that it doesn't matter how talented you are if no one in your company actually knows how to run a business.  If Mayer is short-sighted for only hiring based on degree, it would seem to me to be just as short-sighted to black flag anyone that has a degree based on some internal bias you have regarding college.

timujin: t's not "gets better" or "stays the same". The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely. She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company. This isn't IBM circa 1955. The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


Yes, because what does a 13 year Google VP executive know about 21st Century tech business practices?  Maybe she fails.  She certainly wouldn't be the first Yahoo CEO to do so.  But whatever Yahoo has done over the past ten years hasn't worked, so they might as well let her do her thing and see if it works out.
 
2013-03-12 12:29:46 PM

Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...


Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.
 
2013-03-12 12:31:03 PM

Father_Jack: Endive Wombat: A piece of paper with your CS degree, and $100,000 in student loan debt, does not suddenly make you a more valuable employee over the self taught java developer...

employers dont care about your student debt, so youre confusing hireability from an employers perspective with the exchange you make as a student at a university vs. being self taught.

and youre damn straight an employer will take a CS degree over a self taughter, what are you high? you learn more in a good CS program than just "learning java". I can buy a rifle and go out to the firing range and "learn to shoot", does this mean i have the same skills as a guy who goes through Ranger School with the Army?

Ostensibly, getting a CS degree at a good university, will not only teach you how to program various computer languages, but also rewire your brain, train you how to think, and solve problems. this is different than being a "self taught java programmer".


The most incompetent people I've ever worked with were those with CS degrees.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 12:32:57 PM
Yahoo is known to be a marketing-driven company, not a tech-driven one.  She's got a serious uphill battle fighting that perception.

Lastly, Marissa is well-known to be a rolling biatch on wheels and difficult to work for.  So good luck with that.
 
2013-03-12 12:33:19 PM
She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.
 
2013-03-12 12:34:05 PM
Anything to avoid facing the fact that the common denominator of every problem in the company is her.
 
2013-03-12 12:34:30 PM

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


Fantasy sports?
 
2013-03-12 12:36:25 PM

Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline


That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.
 
2013-03-12 12:38:23 PM

Darke: Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?


You're physically "recovered" enough to go back to work after a couple of days.  But most mothers prefer to stay home for about six weeks to bond with their infant, a process that most pediatricians agree is very important for the future mental and physical health of the child.

I suspect though, that a policy of woman coming back after a specific amount of time that's much shorter than average has more to do with the company not wanting the mom to change her mind about coming back at all.  Because that happens a fair amount as well.
 
2013-03-12 12:40:04 PM

Darke: Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...

Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.


My doctor didn't even want me to drive until two weeks after childbirth, and I had a really easy birth. A lot of women take at least six weeks to feel remotely normal, and that's without complications. Hemorrhage a bunch of blood or have a C-section? Expect recovery to take longer. Two weeks is CRAZY.
 
2013-03-12 12:41:16 PM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


Because we all know that current stock prices always accurately predict the health of a company.
 
2013-03-12 12:45:13 PM

Darke: Endive Wombat:  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Is... is that not normal?


It's normal in countries without paid maternity leave.  Whether it's desirable or optimal are separate questions.
 
2013-03-12 12:45:38 PM

Father_Jack: their core properties are mail, sports, finance, the homepage and my.yahoo, and news.


I was under the impression that Yahoo's revenue came mostly from ad serving and invisible services that the consumer never notices, and that the Yahoo we think about is mostly legacy. I don't remember where I heard that, though.
 
2013-03-12 12:45:59 PM

Father_Jack: timujin: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.

yes and no.

yahoo was a listless mess when i was there in 2006 during the famous "peanut butter memo" debacle. its only gotten much much worse since then.

she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline. people are gonna get pissed and leave, sure. but the ones who stay will be on board with the new vision and be the core to try to rebuild it. you dont change culture without... changing culture. And that shiat is hard to do and really can only do it by stirring shiat up.

who knows if she'll have any success in it, but she's trying, and she's making her presence felt, and itll be interesting to see what success, if any, she brings.

Y! is a second rate company now, it wont be 1 again ever if it even ever was. But it can be cleaned up, old properties smashed up and decomissioned, made more productive and consolidated. it wouldnt be hard to do a lot of good at yahoo.

their core properties are mail, sports, finance, the homepage and my.yahoo, and news. start jettisoning the properties that dont bring naything in, and good stuff'll happen i bet.


I think the specific issue here is that she's not will to accept it's no longer a top tier company.  She only wants to hire top tier employees, except those types of people aren't even applying at Yahoo; they go to work at actual top tier companies like Google.
 
2013-03-12 12:48:15 PM
RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her
 
2013-03-12 12:50:01 PM

ZAZ: Standards or no standards, putting one person as the bottleneck for 900 hires is going to cause trouble.

But Yahoo needs to cut payroll, and her policies are doing that. An employee who quits in outrage over being forced to come to work saves about $200,000 in expenses.


Except that it's an extraordinarily haphazard way to do that. What good are you achieving is a highly productive employee quits but a less productive employee, who doesn't care about telecommuting, stays? Instead of focusing on talent, she's just randomly throwing branches into the fire and calling it leadership.
 
2013-03-12 12:51:31 PM

Mentat: timujin: t's not "gets better" or "stays the same". The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely. She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company. This isn't IBM circa 1955. The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.

Yes, because what does a 13 year Google VP executive know about 21st Century tech business practices? Maybe she fails. She certainly wouldn't be the first Yahoo CEO to do so. But whatever Yahoo has done over the past ten years hasn't worked, so they might as well let her do her thing and see if it works out.


I was only pointing out that there's a third option beyond "gets better" or "stays the same".  My opinion, having been in this industry for a long time, is that she's making a mistake.  But it will shake out one way or another soon enough.

Here's the thing.  I'm moving to the westside and I will probably be looking for a job over there eventually.  Yahoo is definitely off my list.  Google, though...

/yeah, I get that they don't care, but that's kind of the point.
//actually, I'll probably end up at a studio, they've been coming after me pretty hard the last few months...
 
2013-03-12 12:51:39 PM

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?
 
2013-03-12 12:52:02 PM

Darke: Endive Wombat: JK47: GAT_00: I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


The nursery is in a room next to her office, it's not huge, and apparently she furnished it using her own funds and mostly by purchasing a few items from ikea (a table, some shelves, a crib).  She also returned to work 2 weeks after the birth as opposed to 2 months afterwards.

Sounds to me like she's got a lot to prove to someone...

Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

/possibly getting pregnant
//i'm the main earner. he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, so I need to work.


All I am saying...based off the articles that have come out as of late concerning this CEO's performance, style, and policies is that she seems...at least to me...to be embracing the "I am woman, hear me roar!!!" thing a bit much.  Shes enacting policies that really seem bizarre for a high tech company.  As stated above, her requiring everyone to work at the office is basically saying "yeah, I do not know if I trust this whole internet thing..."  Her requiring that she is to interview/vet every new hire is very dumb and totally unproductive...that is not the job of a CEO...she's basically pissing all over her managers and undermining them...

My wife and I do not have children yet.  That being said, I do think that aspects of the "American work ethic" are insane.  The first several weeks after child birth are for mommy and baby to bond.  The idea that work is more important than the child you are raising is sad.  There should be a clear differentiation between work life and home life, and this CEO is basically trying to meld the two, and personally I find that to be unacceptable.  This policy of non-telecommuting is bad for innovation.  Brilliance and inspiration does not necessarily exist between 9am-5pm.

I can also say, that if I had to deal with 10 screaming children in my office/row of cubes because the CEO barred telecommuting, I would be pissed.  I do not need to hear about lactating, breast pumps, diaper brands, etc...and that is the office environment I do not want to be in.
 
2013-03-12 12:52:40 PM

SDRR: CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?

So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?


I thought that was outlook.com now
 
2013-03-12 12:54:21 PM

Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.


At the worst she kills off the source of my daily rage. Chris Chase.

The guy is like the Rick Romero of the sports world..... come to think of it it may be a pen-name.....
 
2013-03-12 12:55:37 PM

show me: IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).

You are being disingenuous. You know that an absolute stock price is not a measure of a company's health, it's the change over time. At least I hope you know that.


I also know that stock price, PERIOD, is not a measure of a company's health.  Stock price doesn't mean crap if no one buys what you're selling.  And no one is buying what Yahoo's selling; all Meyer is doing is the equivalent to taxidermy.
 
2013-03-12 12:56:42 PM

timujin: SDRR: CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?

So I have a place for all my junk email to go when I need an email address I don't actually use?

I thought that was outlook.com now


I only use that for backpage.com
 
2013-03-12 12:58:00 PM

Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."


Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.
 
2013-03-12 01:00:21 PM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


This.

Why it's up I have no idea but I like it. I love it.
 
2013-03-12 01:00:52 PM

midigod: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

If a CEO cuts staff by 2%, the stock will go up every time.  Does that mean that the CEO knows what they're doing?  Or does it mean that the stockholders are looking for different things than the real health of the company?


it worked so well for Carly Fiorina. I fully expect the same roaring success. Really, it's irrelevant whether a CEO has a cock or a cocksocket. A shortsighted CEO is a clueless twat.
 
2013-03-12 01:02:56 PM

show me: IlGreven: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

Because we all know the only way to measure a company's success is by its stock. Which is why we know GM (28.36 +0.05) is a better company than Ford (13.30 -0.04).

You are being disingenuous. You know that an absolute stock price is not a measure of a company's health, it's the change over time. At least I hope you know that.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-12 01:04:06 PM
I've got a 2nd callback over at Lycos.
 
2013-03-12 01:04:50 PM
As I said last week (and was vehemently attacked for), she is a dooshbag coont who is overpaid and not capable of the position.
 
2013-03-12 01:04:56 PM
Well, this is more of a csb than anything else - When I worked at IBM in the 90s, they provided statistics to the public that showed a new employee required 18 months of employment before the company made back the training time/education/benefits/bonus investments they made in each position. They had few positions that had requirements at that time for college degrees for even their IT departments because experience could be used in place of education. However, when they hired people with college computer related degrees, they cut that investment payback time to just over 8 months. I'm sure that investment payback timeframes have changed drastically with most people being computer literate, but if she can show a difference in investment/performance based on degree, she has a valid point. Most large companies have these numbers floating around in one of their finance/HR departments, so she just needs to strengthen her position and show her evidence. If she can't prove that argument, she only hurts both the company and her own reputation.
 
2013-03-12 01:06:20 PM

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.

If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Oh no doubt, its just...in my case, I did not know any of the job requirements going in.  I was reached out to, out of the blue.  Hell, there may not have been anything in the way of a job posting to begin with for all I know...
 
2013-03-12 01:10:14 PM

mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her


Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?
 
2013-03-12 01:15:08 PM

RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?


Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.
 
2013-03-12 01:17:07 PM

pkellmey: Well, this is more of a csb than anything else - When I worked at IBM in the 90s, they provided statistics to the public that showed a new employee required 18 months of employment before the company made back the training time/education/benefits/bonus investments they made in each position. They had few positions that had requirements at that time for college degrees for even their IT departments because experience could be used in place of education. However, when they hired people with college computer related degrees, they cut that investment payback time to just over 8 months. I'm sure that investment payback timeframes have changed drastically with most people being computer literate, but if she can show a difference in investment/performance based on degree, she has a valid point. Most large companies have these numbers floating around in one of their finance/HR departments, so she just needs to strengthen her position and show her evidence. If she can't prove that argument, she only hurts both the company and her own reputation.


As a general policy it may well be very sensible. But to make it a iron clad rule never to be broken, where a manager really wants a particular person as in Endive Wombat's case and HR can simply refuse, is stupid.  It's just another Zero Tolerance policy, no actual thought or common sense required.
 
2013-03-12 01:17:55 PM
Unrealistic standards = job vacancies.
Job Vacancies = More H1B visa workers.
More H1B workers = Higher profits.
 
2013-03-12 01:20:08 PM

mesmer242: She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.


When I took them, the line was that the LSATS gauged your reading comprehension, logic reasoning, and problem solving skills.  SO I see why she might have thought they'd be a good thing to test.  The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how  to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else

(No I'm not bitter, I hit the 98 percentile on the test because those puzzles are in my wheelhouse)
 
2013-03-12 01:22:10 PM

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


Fantasy sports. They actually have a pretty decent engine. I'm just guessing but sports and sports talk are highly profitable, low cost arms.
 
2013-03-12 01:24:14 PM

show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.


Yeah, he doesn't have 98.6 of them.
/37 for our metric friends
 
2013-03-12 01:26:53 PM
So how long until an anonymous source from Yahoo tells the media, "Don't you think she looks tired?"
 
2013-03-12 01:29:53 PM
Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.
 
2013-03-12 01:30:36 PM

mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.


What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.
 
2013-03-12 01:33:12 PM
 
2013-03-12 01:33:47 PM

Nurglitch: show me: Flint Ironstag: She automatically reject Steve Jobs and Bill Gates because neither have a degree.

I think Steve has worse problems now than not having a degree.

I disagree. Dude's looking better than he has in a long time.


Certainly, his attitude has mellowed recently.
 
2013-03-12 01:34:56 PM

timujin: mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.

What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.


Because she's the boss now.  Yahoo belongs to her.  It is no more complicated than that.
 
2013-03-12 01:37:11 PM
Yahoo was struggling with the perception that its best days are behind it, according to recruiting consultants.

Yeah, I wonder how people got that idea...
 
2013-03-12 01:40:00 PM
"Stopping the hemorrhaging is job one and I think she's accomplished that almost by virtue of her presence," said Neil Sims, a managing director with executive recruiting firm Boyden.

Sorry, I'm still having a hard time trusting anyone with Sim in their name.
 
2013-03-12 01:43:30 PM

fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.


Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!
 
rpm
2013-03-12 01:44:13 PM

Father_Jack: and youre damn straight an employer will take a CS degree over a self taughter, what are you high? you learn more in a good CS program than just "learning java". I can buy a rifle and go out to the firing range and "learn to shoot", does this mean i have the same skills as a guy who goes through Ranger School with the Army?


I've improved database performance at a telecom by orders of magnitude. I've done several different types of computer security, including reporting exploitable flaws to MS. I've made Windows do things that it wasn't designed to do. I've co-founded tech companies. I've been called the "best coder he's ever known" by the author of one of the seminal AV books.

Yes, I have a degree, a Masters in fact. In Molecular Biology. Anyone in school who didn't really know me thought I was a CS major, and I was schooling some of the grad CS TAs. One marked off my test because he didn't understand that I did synchronization, and I had to explain the concept to him. I'm almost completely self taught.
 
2013-03-12 01:46:04 PM

timujin: Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline

That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.


oooh i love hyperbole! americans are so good at it too.

no vpn=1950s!!!

do they smoke in the offices, slap the secretaries on the ass and not hire blacks and other unmentionables now too while chugging martinis at lunch?
 
2013-03-12 01:48:09 PM
The sad thing is is that when Yahoo comes crashing down, people will point to her and Carly Fiorina and claim that women aren't suitable to lead tech companies.
 
2013-03-12 01:51:15 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSujceZDmg


That made me pop a boner.
 
2013-03-12 01:51:22 PM

Endive Wombat: I interviewed with a company a while back that required a degree from every employee, including low positions like interns, telephone operators, and secretaries.

I do not have my degree.  I have about 1.5-2 semesters to complete my degree, but I do not have the time, motivation, or money to do so...and quite frankly I've got enough work experience/sales experience/IT sales knowledge that it does not matter.

I am a sales guy...no amount of schooling will teach you to be a good salesperson.  Either you can communicate or cannot.  And in what I do, IT sales, either you have a basic understanding of how networks, storage, virtualization, and application development work or you don't.

Anyway, I am recruited by a sales manager through LinkedIn.  I never see an initial application or pre-screening questionnaire...I just email him my resume, which is quite clear that I did not complete college.  I go in for an initial interview and knock it out of the park.  I have two more interviews and I am good to go. I negotiate a fair salary and bonus plan...everything is going just fine.  At this point, I am waiting for the formal offer letter from HR...

I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."  I then call the Sales Manager, who fights with HR and ownership for a week...I send off verifiable info like certs, proven sales records...I was even going to bring over 2 "in the bag" deals...

I did not get the job.  Stupid, stupid people running that company.  Last I heard, they were having some difficulty in staffing...


There have been a variety of sales jobs that I've been looking at here and there that require at least a Bachelor's degree, but pay commission only and it's entry level.  I have never figured out why a company wants someone with a B.S. to go around the country selling their product over someone who only has a high school diploma.  I would figure that a person living on pure commission for five years would be qualified for almost any sales position.
 
2013-03-12 01:52:02 PM

Magorn: mesmer242: She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.

When I took them, the line was that the LSATS gauged your reading comprehension, logic reasoning, and problem solving skills.  SO I see why she might have thought they'd be a good thing to test.  The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how  to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else

(No I'm not bitter, I hit the 98 percentile on the test because those puzzles are in my wheelhouse)


Yes, that's why I think it's stupid. I both studied standardized tests from an academic perspective, as well as taught standardized test classes for one of the major companies (not the LSAT though). Academic tests are a weak predictor of academic success, and work best when combined with other information such as GPA in previous academic endeavors. And predicting workplace success based on the LSAT is even less likely, as a large scale empirical study of lawyers rated on various positive attributes showed that most correlations were very weak (.1 or less) and some were actually negative (-.19 on networking).

There are people that argue that IQ testing shows a correlation with job success, but there have also been studies that show that over a certain IQ (115 or so), there's almost no difference. The strongest correlations are when people go into a job with no previous experience.

What gets me is they weren't talking about introducing these tests into the hiring process - they were talking about making admins already working there take the tests. At that point, there are better measures of job success, like, you know, if they can do their farking job. Giving any kind of standardized test to your existing staff isn't a empirically supported performance improvement measure.... It's a cop out to fire a bunch of people without getting sued, or it's a delusional misunderstanding of what those tests are actually good for.
 
2013-03-12 01:52:09 PM

dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!


COBOL is worthless without JCL.  I happen to know both.

/Left IT, thinking of coming back into the fold.
 
2013-03-12 01:54:08 PM

dittybopper: timujin: mesmer242: RexTalionis: mrexcess: RexTalionis
Bill Gates has an honorary degree from Harvard.

Jobs had an honorary degree, too. I think the point is that they got those honorary degrees long after they became wealthy and successful.

/this is what happens when non-geeks try to run technology companies
//maybe she knows the hiring process is farked because they hired her

Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

Yeah, I think the argument that she's not geek enough is completely odd. If anything, she doesn't have the background in business that most CEOs have.

What's weird is coming from Google and seeing the success they've had with their personnel policies, then to take such a 180-degree course from them.

Because she's the boss now.  Yahoo belongs to her.  It is no more complicated than that.


Another interesting article on the subject.

These "tightened" recruiting measures include a personal meeting with Mayer for every candidate, something Sandberg used to do at Google, which might be where Mayer picked up her knack for HR involvement. But Sandberg realized that her "insistence on speaking personally to every candidate had become a huge bottleneck," . The same thing has started happening at Yahoo, according to a former executive who spoke with Reuters: "One person we wanted waited eight weeks, then they inevitably got another offer."

Yahoo doesn't have the luxury of turning down a lot of highly qualified people right now. It doesn't have the same prestige as Google or Facebook. Mayer's trying to change that, in part by attracting the best workers. But her drive to hire the best of Silicon Valley may, in fact, be turning these best people away.


/edited for your enjoyment
 
2013-03-12 01:54:19 PM

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


Isn't that a thing that is done in Japan?  Like from grade school, to high school, through college...it is all for the purpose of getting a job either in a specific field, or at least based of the college, the specific company?  And if you did not attend this specific school, you cannot work at companies x,y, and z?   I seem to remember this being a thing..
 
2013-03-12 02:00:24 PM

Father_Jack: timujin: Father_Jack: she is correct in appyling the thumbscrews and bringing some order and discipline

That is an assumption that remains to be proven.  She could be correct, she could be terribly wrong.  There are a lot of ways to change a corporate culture other than dragging it back to the 1950's.

oooh i love hyperbole! americans are so good at it too.

no vpn=1950s!!!

do they smoke in the offices, slap the secretaries on the ass and not hire blacks and other unmentionables now too while chugging martinis at lunch?


Wow, sarcasm.  That's okay, but you have a problem with hyperbole.

And I was referring to the requirement for a college degree from a restricted list of acceptable universities when applied to IT staff.  There is no longer a correlation between a prestigious degree and ability to do well in the field.  I never mentioned the work-from-home issue, which is also dumb, just not as dumb.
 
2013-03-12 02:03:08 PM
Huh. She cuts employee benefits, kills their telecommuting policy, and is surprised that she can't get talent?

In other news, tech companies with half a clue are still hiring, still offering lovely benefits, and are still offering telecommuting. If you're going to go work at Yahoo, it's because you got turned down at Microsoft, Oracle, Google, and any number of vertical tech companies with far better benefits.

Good luck with that. Your clueless CEO is going to run you into the ground, Yahoo. Buckle up.
 
2013-03-12 02:03:21 PM

dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!


My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his CV and degrees so he could be properly introduced to the class, and he'd always say "I don't have one"
 
2013-03-12 02:05:57 PM

tdyak: COBOL is worthless without JCL


FTFY.  I know it, and avoid it like the plague.  There are some legacy reports and the like here at my work that are in COBOL, but we've frozen them and when someone wants them modified, we tell them we can't do that, but we can re-write them (with the new features added, of course) in something else.    Conscious, bottom up decision by the programmers and the DBA to gradually phase it out here.
 
2013-03-12 02:09:31 PM

Magorn: At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his CV and degrees so he could be properly introduced to the class, and he'd always say "I don't have one"


Interesting thing about institutes of higher education:  They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.
 
2013-03-12 02:18:26 PM
usually college degree threads are full of STEM majors looking down on everyone else.

why are they not here to look down on developers without degrees?
 
2013-03-12 02:21:12 PM

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


That assumes that everyone at these schools has the same very specific area of study. Even by narrowing the pool to a few schools and degrees, there's likely a high level of diversity.

I mean, the big consulting firms like McKinsey recruit from just a handfull of the top business schools. I don't think they've suffered by ignoring people who didn't go to a top 10 business school. Ditto for the major law firms and top law schools.
 
2013-03-12 02:22:06 PM

dumbobruni: usually college degree threads are full of STEM majors looking down on everyone else.

why are they not here to look down on developers without degrees?


Because they didn't waste money on a worthless degree.

/I kid
 
2013-03-12 02:22:52 PM
She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?
 
2013-03-12 02:24:18 PM
I don't understand why Yahoo's every move is still breathlessly reported on by tech and business media.  When's the last time this company was really relevant?
 
2013-03-12 02:27:31 PM
When I started at my last job over a decade ago, the president of the division I worked in was a woman. Everybody loved her. She was always out on the floor talking to people, understood their problems and tried to make it feel like you weren't just a number. Everyone worked hard because management under her was generous to those who showed effort. Promotions and raises... etc could be had.

Then the forces that be made her retire. They replaced her with another woman. This new divisional president seemed nice enough at first but then she started cutting. In the beginning it was things that maybe should have been cut. A consolidation of print vendors, a review of the IT/computer systems, stopping old practices that we were almost the last in the industry doing. And if the numbers were true, she doubled profit margins in about six months from just trimming excess. All seemed fine at the six month mark. Then she went off the rails and kept cutting. Outsourcing one department, then another, then another. Raises and bonuses went from about 3 or 4 percent  to a 1 percent raise and a $1000.00 bonus. After a few years it was found out that everyone got that regardless of their performance. Promotions went the way of the dodo and almost no one new was hired except on the phones because they had such a large turnover rate. Last I heard, the cutting is still going on, no more paper coffee cups in the break rooms and the coffee is now something like a buck last I heard....

So there are good managers and bad ones, gender doesn't matter.

/CSB
 
2013-03-12 02:27:32 PM

Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?


Reading your screenname and missing her on NBC.

/"Oh...dear...I almost said Bon Jon Bovi...I'm so nervous."
/"Jon, are you going to be doing anymore Allie McBeals?"
/"I don't know, Katie, I kind of have this day job here...making music with my band."
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 02:28:44 PM

dittybopper: Interesting thing about institutes of higher education: They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.


"Since I spent the time, money and frustration getting a degree, you should too."

I got an offer I couldn't refuse 2 months before I was going to graduate. Therefore, no degree. Not sure what a B.S. in Geosciences would do for me anyway.  Been working in IT without pause since 1995, though. So I suppose it's a moot point by now.  Most places trade experience for college.

I've found places that would turn me down because I have no degree aren't places I'd want want to work at anyway.  There was a Fortune 100 company I worked for that would send me an email every 6 months asking if I'd made "any updates to my educational status". I always responded in a "What did you learn over the summer, kids?" sort of way and they finally stopped annoying me.
 
2013-03-12 02:29:43 PM
As a college graduate, I'd never run a company that hired only college graduates. There's a lot of dumbasses out there that received degrees, and there's a lot of really smart people that never did.
 
2013-03-12 02:30:47 PM

FormlessOne: Huh. She cuts employee benefits, kills their telecommuting policy, and is surprised that she can't get talent?

In other news, tech companies with half a clue are still hiring, still offering lovely benefits, and are still offering telecommuting. If you're going to go work at Yahoo, it's because you got turned down at Microsoft, Oracle, Google, and any number of vertical tech companies with far better benefits.

Good luck with that. Your clueless CEO is going to run you into the ground, Yahoo. Buckle up.


A possibility is that she recognises Yahoo's days as a true innovator are over and it is in the mature stage of its life. They don't want crazy free thinkers, they only want steady mid range people who are good enough to do the job they are given but not good enough to get better jobs elsewhere and won't make waves by constantly suggesting better ways to do things.
If she has decided and accepted that Yahoo will never be able to truly rival Google but has decided to merely follow them in certain areas then by cutting costs that could result in a profitable business.
Many a business has enjoyed huge success in doing a fairly boring job but just doing it efficiently while others have desperately tried to find the latest huge killer business and failed.
 
2013-03-12 02:34:47 PM

CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?


Fantasy sports?
 
2013-03-12 02:34:59 PM
I've never met a single person who works at Yahoo because they love Yahoo so much. They just happened to find a job there.

If your company is crap, you will never attract the "top tier" people no matter how much you pay.
 
2013-03-12 02:35:18 PM

Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?


Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?
 
2013-03-12 02:37:03 PM

WhippingBoy: Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?


Let's be fair, here; Yahoo was into the death spiral well before Ms. Mayer arrived.
 
2013-03-12 02:39:34 PM
But she's cute
 
2013-03-12 02:40:03 PM
So she wants people educated beyond their intelligence?  Brilliant move there toots.
 
2013-03-12 02:42:26 PM

GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.


What was it that she did to cause the increase?
 
2013-03-12 02:43:44 PM

wee: dittybopper: Interesting thing about institutes of higher education: They often value the sheepskin itself more than the knowledge it supposedly represents.

"Since I spent the time, money and frustration getting a degree, you should too."

I got an offer I couldn't refuse 2 months before I was going to graduate. Therefore, no degree. Not sure what a B.S. in Geosciences would do for me anyway.  Been working in IT without pause since 1995, though. So I suppose it's a moot point by now.  Most places trade experience for college.

I've found places that would turn me down because I have no degree aren't places I'd want want to work at anyway.  There was a Fortune 100 company I worked for that would send me an email every 6 months asking if I'd made "any updates to my educational status". I always responded in a "What did you learn over the summer, kids?" sort of way and they finally stopped annoying me.


Yeah, that's generally been my experience:  I've got the work experience, I interview reasonably well, and I'm *JUST* eccentric enough that people think I'm some kind of genius without being so off the deep end that they think I'm insane.  That's actually a plus in this field, btw.  It may not be for others.
 
2013-03-12 02:44:20 PM

dittybopper: I'm *JUST* eccentric enough that people think I'm some kind of genius


Just to be clear:  I'm not actually a genius.
 
2013-03-12 02:46:23 PM

dittybopper: dittybopper: I'm *JUST* eccentric enough that people think I'm some kind of genius

Just to be clear:  I'm not actually a genius.


Where have you been? We're all geniuses here.... just one big group of untapped knowledge.
 
2013-03-12 02:52:51 PM

Magorn: My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his ...


Tell him some anonymous guy on an insignificant message board said thanks.
 
2013-03-12 02:53:03 PM

InfrasonicTom: GameSprocket: soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.

Yeah, the stock is only up about 40% since she took over. Terrible.

What was it that she did to cause the increase?


I have no idea and it doesn't really matter. She has only been in place for 9 months. Stock price is really the only way anyone outside of Yahoo can evaluate her. By that standard, she is not a terrible CEO.
 
2013-03-12 02:53:33 PM

Magorn: in the late 90's even HAVING a degree was a serious red flag for many tech start-ups.


And where are those start-ups now?

How are they doing against that search engine start-up that was founded at Stanford University by a couple of CS grad students?
 
2013-03-12 03:01:21 PM

GameSprocket: She has been CEO for 9 months. Even if she had an idea for a big technology launch when she was hired, it wouldn't be ready yet.


If she's truly capable of turning the company around, then I'd expect her to have brought at least a dozen small ideas for improvement to the table, most of which should have been accomplishable by this point.

It's an "agile" industry now, and corporations that measure their "pivot time" in years won't stay around for too long.
 
2013-03-12 03:03:44 PM

qorkfiend: WhippingBoy: Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Let's be fair, here; Yahoo was into the death spiral well before Ms. Mayer arrived.


True, but at least the passengers were comfortable and the descent was slow. Now, the new pilot's told everyone that she wants trays up and belts buckled, because instead of that lazy spiral, she's going to augur that farker right into the friggin' ground. Oh, and she's going to eject before impact, floating serenely under her golden parachute, while everyone else enjoys a screaming, flaming demise.

She's the new class of "fark you, got mine" CEO - she's going to claim short-term reduction in operating costs, get a nice fat bonus, and then eject before the long-term results of her short-sightedness impacts her personal bottom line.
 
2013-03-12 03:05:33 PM

poot_rootbeer: GameSprocket: She has been CEO for 9 months. Even if she had an idea for a big technology launch when she was hired, it wouldn't be ready yet.

If she's truly capable of turning the company around, then I'd expect her to have brought at least a dozen small ideas for improvement to the table, most of which should have been accomplishable by this point.

It's an "agile" industry now, and corporations that measure their "pivot time" in years won't stay around for too long.


As has been drilled into us for the last half-decade, "three months is the new year." I'm working for a company right now that hasn't planned beyond CY 2013, because much of our future rides on the next 9 months (and three waves of releases.) Sounds like Yahoo better sack up.
 
2013-03-12 03:06:34 PM

ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.


Heh - at my company we are routinely encouraged to 'think outside the box' , etc - and come up with new areas in which to expand our business.  So, being an idiot I sat down and thought of just such a plan.

Scheduled a meeting with my VP (the one continuously telling us how much he values creativity, new ideas, etc, which should have been an obvious red flag, but as I mentioned - idiot.) and pitched my plan.

Paraphrasing slightly, his response was that the first thing he always did when evaluating a new potential opportunity is to determine whether it meets three key criteria (size, approachability, something else).  I confess that I tuned out as I quickly realized is that his first approach to any 'out of the box' idea was to see whether it would immediately meet the conditions of our existing business model (which is, in fact, the 'box') , and eliminating even the possibility of innovation by declaring that new ideas are clearly bad because we have not already had them.
 
2013-03-12 03:09:11 PM
Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.
 
2013-03-12 03:12:07 PM

FormlessOne: qorkfiend: WhippingBoy: Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Let's be fair, here; Yahoo was into the death spiral well before Ms. Mayer arrived.

True, but at least the passengers were comfortable and the descent was slow. Now, the new pilot's told everyone that she wants trays up and belts buckled, because instead of that lazy spiral, she's going to augur that farker right into the friggin' ground. Oh, and she's going to eject before impact, floating serenely under her golden parachute, while everyone else enjoys a screaming, flaming demise.

She's the new class of "fark you, got mine" CEO - she's going to claim short-term reduction in operating costs, get a nice fat bonus, and then eject before the long-term results of her short-sightedness impacts her personal bottom line.



She already got a $1.1m bonus.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/yahoos-marissa-mayer-gets-1-1m-bonus -a fter-5-months-1C8775298
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 03:24:46 PM

dittybopper: Just to be clear: I'm not actually a genius.


I've found that affability, a sense of humor, not taking youerself too seriously, and being able to write reasonably well have all been a plus.  I guess I'm a bit eccentric as well.
 
2013-03-12 03:26:40 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


What, her face?
 
2013-03-12 03:34:47 PM

Jster422: ongbok: Yahoo's problem is that they need to innovate their services and offer new innovative products. Yahoo's personal seems to have stagnated creatively, so it does seem necessary for her to shake things up. However this new hiring process isn't the right way to go if you are looking to inject new innovative blood into your process. By only accepting CS degrees and CS degrees form certain schools you are turning your back on a huge pool of diverse thinkers and narrowing your talent pool to a smaller range of thinkers.

To innovate you truly need a whole range of people. What she is doing is only looking for people who have are approved way of thinking. This will kill the creative process and this attempt to innovate will fail.

Heh - at my company we are routinely encouraged to 'think outside the box' , etc - and come up with new areas in which to expand our business.  So, being an idiot I sat down and thought of just such a plan.

Scheduled a meeting with my VP (the one continuously telling us how much he values creativity, new ideas, etc, which should have been an obvious red flag, but as I mentioned - idiot.) and pitched my plan.

Paraphrasing slightly, his response was that the first thing he always did when evaluating a new potential opportunity is to determine whether it meets three key criteria (size, approachability, something else).  I confess that I tuned out as I quickly realized is that his first approach to any 'out of the box' idea was to see whether it would immediately meet the conditions of our existing business model (which is, in fact, the 'box') , and eliminating even the possibility of innovation by declaring that new ideas are clearly bad because we have not already had them.


Yea, no shiat sherlock. I mean if it was a good idea, someone would have already thought of it!

duh
 
2013-03-12 03:38:12 PM

InfrasonicTom: FormlessOne: qorkfiend: WhippingBoy: Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Not running a once respected company into the ground?

/He's chancellor of Germany. What are you doing with your life asshole?

Let's be fair, here; Yahoo was into the death spiral well before Ms. Mayer arrived.

True, but at least the passengers were comfortable and the descent was slow. Now, the new pilot's told everyone that she wants trays up and belts buckled, because instead of that lazy spiral, she's going to augur that farker right into the friggin' ground. Oh, and she's going to eject before impact, floating serenely under her golden parachute, while everyone else enjoys a screaming, flaming demise.

She's the new class of "fark you, got mine" CEO - she's going to claim short-term reduction in operating costs, get a nice fat bonus, and then eject before the long-term results of her short-sightedness impacts her personal bottom line.


She already got a $1.1m bonus.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/yahoos-marissa-mayer-gets-1-1m-bonus -a fter-5-months-1C8775298


Oddly enough, she may get more bonuses. That short-term reduction in operating costs, I'm certain, is probably tied to a KPI in her performance assessment. Plus, of course, it's also keeping her golden parachute at an appropriate size. It's going to be fun watching this mess.
 
2013-03-12 03:41:06 PM

Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE)


Yahoo is a software company.  EEs are notoriously bad at programming.  Makes sense to me.

Yahoo doesn't make any hardware, anyway.  Why would an EE want to work there?
 
2013-03-12 03:43:29 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


Yeah, give the slut a break.
 
2013-03-12 03:43:56 PM

space1999: Magorn: Mayer's insistence on her hires not only having the "right" degree (CS as opposed to say EE)

Yahoo is a software company.  EEs are notoriously bad at programming.  Makes sense to me.

Yahoo doesn't make any hardware, anyway.  Why would an EE want to work there?


There are plenty of hardware-related jobs at a software company. Most have to do with custom in-house server designs the likes of which Facebook and Google do. I'm not sure that Yahoo does such a thing but it has benefits vs off-the-shelf stuff from Dell.
 
2013-03-12 03:45:41 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


THANK YOU
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-12 03:57:42 PM
I'm an old-school system administrator.  That means I learned it the hard way long before there was much in the way of degrees for that type of job.  There really isn't a "system admin" degree, the closest you can get is information technology, which has serious definiciencies.  I'm very good at my job.  I have worked for Google and currently work for a major technology company.  I would have stayed at Google, but that was back when that biatch was in charge of hiring so I was unable to switch from contract to permanent since I did not meet her requirements, never mind that I did the job for an entire year and got rave reviews from my manager.

I get pinged by a yahoo recruiter every few months.  They seem to be a bit slow because I have repeatedly told them "not a farking chance in hell".  Maybe I should change that to, "tell that Mayer biatch to go to blow me and I'll consider it".
 
2013-03-12 03:58:18 PM
...and only hire locally. Walking distance preferred.
 
2013-03-12 04:00:07 PM

show me: poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.

Yeah, give the slut a break.


Biatches hate being called sluts.
 
2013-03-12 04:02:49 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


I actually note a hint of sexism in all the well publicized attacks on her.  Not that they aren't valid critisims, but the fact that they are well publicized is the sexist part.  That is, lots of tech companies have morons for CEOs, but we keep hearing about her because she's a she.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-12 04:11:09 PM
Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

"Hormone-addled lactating moron" just doesn't have the brevity we love on Fark.
 
2013-03-12 04:11:51 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: fortheloveofgod: Endive Wombat: I then get a call from some Sr. HR person who is quite pissy with me on the phone and tells me that the deal is off.  She goes on to say that they ONLY hire folks with college degrees, and relevant work experience, and work successes fall 2nd to the degree requirement.  She told me "They pride themselves in having a staff that is 100% college educated."

Meh.  My employer requires a 4-year degree minimum to work here.  If you know that going in, don't apply.  They're not hurting for people either - currently have about ~260,000 employees globally.  If I don't meet the requirements for a job posting, I don't waste everyone's time by applying, just because I think their policies suck.

Why?

I don't have a degree.  In the past 20+ years I've been in IT, I've been hired for at least 3 positions that required a 4 year degree, and I've turned down at least two job offers that also required a BS degree simply because they were shiat jobs that didn't pay squat.

/You want a programmer comfortable with Unix, Windows, and Mac OS's, able to code in several different languages (including COBOL), with a 4 year degree and some work experience, and you want to pay them $10 an hour in 2000?   Good luck with that!

My father never got a degree, or any post-high school education beyond Radar Repairman's school in the 1950's.  However B-52 Bombers, NASA's early programs in the 60's at Wallops Island, the Mark 48 torpedo, The Navy's entire fleet of Nuclear missile subs, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and finally the Small Explorer program at NASA in the 90's ad early 2000's were all the stunning successes they were  thanks, in a large part to the reliability engineering he did on all those projects.    At the end of his career he was often invited to lecture to PHD students at the local university's Reliability Engineering program, and everytime the secretary or AA arranging the visit would simply refuse to believe him when they asked for his ...


This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.
 
2013-03-12 04:13:24 PM
This woman apparently went to the Carly Fiorina school of management.
 
2013-03-12 04:13:59 PM
Yahoo employees complain to CEO that they still have 800 vacancies because she is a snob who only wants CS degrees and only from certain schools.

She's just parroting Page and Brin.  She could add some other Google rules:
* PhD's preferred
* no MBAs
* 3.5+ GPA or we don't even read your resume
* need some low-leve help?  Outsource it.
 
2013-03-12 04:16:45 PM

Lando Lincoln: As a college graduate, I'd never run a company that hired only college graduates. There's a lot of dumbasses out there that received degrees, and there's a lot of really smart people that never did.


That a person attained a degree tells me that they had the stick-to-it-ness required to get a degree.  I suppose what field and what college the degree was from may add a tiny bit more to the story, but still doesn't by itself mean the person will shine in any particular job.

I didn't finish a degree and, except for about one semester of full-time school, I haven't been unemployed since high school (28 years).  I also dropped out of began my extended sabbatical from college with $0 debt, since I'd been working full time to play for tuition most of while in school.  The classes at college that were most valuable (i.e. that I couldn't or wouldn't have taught myself) were Calculus, Chemistry and a materials science course.

I learned assembly language and a hella lot about computers by picking up a microprocessor's technical databook.  I learned C from a white book with a big blue C on the cover.  These days it may be about an even split between books and the web.  Most things I've learned just because I was interested in the topic or it was the right tool for attacking the topic I was interested in.  Interest and engagement... that may be the thing that's more important for success on the job and less than obvious from the degree someone possesses.  A person doesn't have to give a single rats ass about any topic in their curriculum to get a degree (though I'm sure it helps).  All you have to do is stick to it and make the necessary grades.  When I see an applicant with a degree, I mostly shrug.  When I see actual work or personal projects, especially self-started, self-directed projects, listed in a resume' then I start getting really interested in an applicant.  When they talk to me knowledgeably and passionately about the job's area of expertise, I'm all thumbs up.  When they also talk to me knowledgeably and passionately about *other* areas of interest and expertise, that's when I pee my pants and insist they be hired.
 
2013-03-12 04:18:06 PM

Omnivorous: Yahoo employees complain to CEO that they still have 800 vacancies because she is a snob who only wants CS degrees and only from certain schools.

She's just parroting Page and Brin.  She could add some other Google rules:
* PhD's preferred
* no MBAs
* 3.5+ GPA or we don't even read your resume
* need some low-leve help?  Outsource it.


The thing is, Yahoo ain't Google.  Google can get away with such high demands because it's farking Google.  Yahoo isn't able to be as picky.
 
2013-03-12 04:19:10 PM

GAT_00: Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


Her gender is absolutely relevant because if a man tried this crap he'd be toast.
 
2013-03-12 04:29:28 PM

space1999: Yahoo is a software company.  EEs are notoriously bad at programming.  Makes sense to me.


So are CS graduates - great for theory, not very great at actual implementation. "Why can't programmers... program?" and all.

Geotpf: That is, lots of tech companies have morons for CEOs, but we keep hearing about her because she's a she.


That's not sexism on the part of the people critiquing her. The criticism is coming up because it's listed in the news feed. Now if you want to claim that it's in the news feed because she is a woman and that itself is sexist, sure, I agree. She deserves no special attention, and she is only as "well regarded" (by the groups that do) because she is a woman. Plenty of men and cats and vegetables make lousy CEOs too, don't get me wrong - she just has absolutely no properties that would make her a reasonable candidate to even try out. I have never seen a single technical or detailed account of her accomplishments in her 13 years at Google. Just a lot of credit-taking for what engineers likely did and the usual power-trippy "change the color!" type psycho stuff.

cybrwzrd: You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


Anyone who has ever had to assist these people with something technical or mechanical can attest to this. You can find someone who can replace your organs for you but won't be able to tell you how many cylinders their vehicle has - which is something that the "truly capable" (as you say) would just pick up from the background noise. Computer usage is another great way of demonstrating adaptability. You can take someone completely proficient in their area of expertise, who knows how to use a computer, but then change one detail about how the computer works and they are lost. Same with their vehicle or any other thing (even something as simple as a debit terminal). They lack the higher intelligence to adapt on the fly, to guess or estimate or investigate. They freeze.

The same applies to CEO/business person/investor. It takes only a very small (as you say, 10%) advantage over an otherwise normal IQ for someone to be highly successful in whatever field they specialize in - but the other stuff? Forget it.

Don't get me wrong, I want a doctor who went to school. A lawyer probably, too - those seem like good things. Software development is so young, ambiguous and so rapidly changing, that a degree really doesn't say a whole lot. Now she's claiming that only a few esteemed institutions are worthwhile. I really can't speak to that - but I am the only person without a degree out of all the people I have worked with, and very, very few of them exhibit much in the way of useful skills. It's mostly just mediocre developers writing mediocre throw-away code everywhere you look. I wouldn't dismiss someone for having a degree, but I also don't consider it a guarantee that they know anything. Because of this, the only real way to decide is to have an interview, solve some problems together and so on.

Her elitism towards graduates is just another sign that she doesn't know what she is doing. She's drawing arbitrary lines in the sand to make it seem like she has a game plan. The reality is that the engineers at Yahoo are either going to make something or not and her overall influence on the company will come down to, "Were people able to make great things despite her bullshiat or was it severe enough that it ruined everything?"
 
2013-03-12 04:30:22 PM

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.


Why would you suggest "average" is -10 to +20 around the standardized average? C'mon, you could at least use one standard deviation and say 85 to 115.
 
2013-03-12 04:33:43 PM
I hear she narrowed her search to The Big Ten. Yo !!!

// Dice man voice.
 
2013-03-12 04:36:25 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


It's a big, scary, unfair world out there. You'd better get used to it.
 
2013-03-12 04:36:50 PM

RatOmeter: I learned C from a white book with a big blue C on the cover.


So did I, and the damn thing taught me to use global variables for everything. Unlearning that was a painful process.

Degrees are dandy for indicating a basic level of instruction. If you are familiar with the school's program, you can be pretty confident in what you will get. There are some things that only experience can teach, however. Pretty much any new grad will be bad at estimating the time required to complete a task. Usually, they forget to include following up to find the actual requirements and time for testing. They also tend to over-engineer the solution so it becomes twice as large as required and takes up three times the development and test time.

There are exceptions, of course, but developers need to learn to be lazy in the right ways.
 
2013-03-12 04:39:16 PM

ProfessorOhki: Why would you suggest "average" is -10 to +20 around the standardized average? C'mon, you could at least use one standard deviation and say 85 to 115.


Because we're talking about the subset of the population that is able, with education, to obtain employment performing some kind of skilled or semi-skilled task. At the lower end people would shift towards unskilled labor and thus you don't have an even distribution.
 
2013-03-12 04:43:24 PM

ProfessorOhki: Why would you suggest "average" is -10 to +20 around the standardized average? C'mon, you could at least use one standard deviation and say 85 to 115.


Because an 85 is a pretty damn low IQ and likely unable to learn what is necessary to earn a degree. That and I am pulling the numbers out of my arse.

If you want to nitpick, fine make it 85-115, but the theory still stands.
 
2013-03-12 04:46:52 PM

poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.


We call men we don't like "dicks" and no one complains. Is that misandry?
 
2013-03-12 04:49:58 PM
I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.
 
2013-03-12 04:50:11 PM

RatOmeter: That a person attained a degree tells me that they had the stick-to-it-ness required to get a degree.


I agree and totally disagree with you.  Based off whatever field that person is going into, yeah...sure.  You do not need to have a degree to do a lot of the jobs that exist here in the US.  Does a degree help (the actual education you got) sure...can you self study or learn on the job?  Yup.

My personal take on the matter is that the overwhelming amount of business that require one to have a degree are actually diminishing its value.  It may as well be just another 4 years tacked onto ones education here in the US.  You do not graduate at 12th grade, it is now 16th grade...
 
2013-03-12 04:53:32 PM

dwrash: I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.


I had a Stats professor fail me for not doing the homework in college.  Seriously.  I set the curve not only for the class that I was in, but for the other like 5 classes he was teaching that semester.  He claims that I was cheating.  I appeal my case to the dean of the math department and retake the much more difficult final in the deans office, 6 feet from him and pass it.

Ultimately because it was the professors decision and class, he still failed me for not doing any of the homework.  Farking asshole.
 
2013-03-12 04:58:09 PM

daveinsurgent: Software development is so young, ambiguous and so rapidly changing, that a degree really doesn't say a whole lot.


I'm neither for or anti degrees, and I'd say that there are advantages to doing a CS degree in terms of the foundations, and if you're going to do things like compiler design, you really need it.

But a lot of what I learnt on my college course 20+ years ago is almost irrelevant background noise to my job. I learnt how to code various sorts of sort routines. Know what I do now? Tell .net to just sort my list by a particular property. Because the difference between one sort mechanism with current CPU performance just isn't worth my time coding.

You want to know the best measure of a good developer that I've found? They're the people who also have a hobby development on the side. Doesn't matter if they custom built a retail store for their wife's embroidery, contribute to an open source project or if they write HTML5 games or sell utilities. Not only does it show they love doing it, and they're also practising what they do more, but typically when people do stuff on the side, they try new things out. And learning the new stuff saves you time and is a virtuous cycle of improvement.
 
2013-03-12 05:02:28 PM
Keep farking that purple squirrel........
 
2013-03-12 05:11:12 PM

Endive Wombat: dwrash: I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.

I had a Stats professor fail me for not doing the homework in college.  Seriously.  I set the curve not only for the class that I was in, but for the other like 5 classes he was teaching that semester.  He claims that I was cheating.  I appeal my case to the dean of the math department and retake the much more difficult final in the deans office, 6 feet from him and pass it.

Ultimately because it was the professors decision and class, he still failed me for not doing any of the homework.  Farking asshole.


My son and daughter are very much like me and encountered even more stupid teachers while going through public school.

The worse was Mrs. Nagle (a humanties teacher) where she required all students to have a spiral notebook where they would staple the homework assignments on the left and do their work on the right... do you know what an entire year does to a spiral bound notebook with so many staples in it does?.. by the end of the year its a mess of torn paper.

It's neatness and completeness was 50% of the class grade... many students purchased boxes that the spiral notebook would fit into and lug it around all year.... total stupidity.  Teachers like that should be run out of town.
 
2013-03-12 05:20:45 PM

sigdiamond2000: "Why can't we just be good at hiring?" Mayer said, playing off a line from what she called one of her favorite movies, 1989's "Say Anything",

Serious red flag.

When I was in college, that was #3 on my list of red flags for potential bedmates, right between earwax candles and Gypsy Kings CDs.

This woman's going to end up pounding on someone's door at 3 AM sobbing, screaming something about being responsible for her own happiness and demanding her Proto Pipe back.


Its Gipsy Kings.
 
2013-03-12 05:26:35 PM

Hollie Maea: RexTalionis: She's a pretty big name and a pretty good engineer - she was pretty much essential on most of Google's core services. That Google Search with just the logo and search bar? That was her idea:

Some people who are really really good at one thing are really bad at others.  See also: Michael Jordan as a team owner.


Jordan really really sucked when he tried to play AA baseball.
 
2013-03-12 05:30:43 PM

timujin: Mentat: I think the personally vetting every hire is a bit much, but as for the rest?  Why not?  The worst that happens is that Yahoo! doesn't improve and she walks away she drags Yahoo! even further into irrelevancy and then walks away from the smoking rubble with tens of millions in golden parachute money.  At best, she changes the culture for the better.

FTFY

It's not "gets better" or "stays the same".  The third option, continuing its downward spiral and imploding, is seeming more and more likely.  She's applying 20th century practices to a 21st century company.  This isn't IBM circa 1955.  The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college.  Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


She came from Stanford, so obviously smart people like her only come from Stanford.
 
2013-03-12 05:39:19 PM

GAT_00: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way

I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.


You realize it's not normal to be able to work from home, right? That's a fringe perk that maybe 1% of the labor force gets to enjoy. And if she wants to build a nursery and hire a nanny to take care of her kid with her own money, that's her business. What would make her a hypocrite would be if she didn't come into the office.
 
2013-03-12 05:47:53 PM

Tommy Moo: What would make her a hypocrite would be if she didn't come into the office.


I think the argument is that she *isn't* coming into the office, she's just extending her definition of home to include the office.
 
2013-03-12 05:53:40 PM

Moopy Mac: CPennypacker: Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"

No seriously, why is yahoo still around?

Fantasy sports?


They still can't make a mobile app that performs adequately for their fantasy leagues.
 
2013-03-12 05:55:16 PM

browntimmy: poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.

We call men we don't like "dicks" and no one complains. Is that misandry?


Was going to say basically that.

For me:  dick, douche, or asshole
For women: biatch, c00nt, or twat.

It's not sexist.
 
2013-03-12 06:13:52 PM

Tommy Moo: GAT_00: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Voiceofreason01: Because you have a clueless twat for a CEO.

Misogynist!

/not really, just thought I'd get it out of the way

I'm pretty convinced she's a terrible CEO no matter what, but her actions, such as banning mothers from staying home with their kids right as she finished a huge new nursery in her home, is the very definition of an out of touch CEO driving a company into the ground.  Her gender is irrelevant in that, except that her actions are somewhat more shocking when she personally knows better, or would if she had any empathy.

You realize it's not normal to be able to work from home, right? That's a fringe perk that maybe 1% of the labor force gets to enjoy. And if she wants to build a nursery and hire a nanny to take care of her kid with her own money, that's her business. What would make her a hypocrite would be if she didn't come into the office.


So do you think other Yahoo employees have the freedom to build nurseries *right next* to their offices? Cause I really, *really* doubt that.
 
2013-03-12 06:29:02 PM

timujin: The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.


The days of the basement dwelling hacker being a super star in IT are mostly over.  To fill nearly 1000 positions you are not going to find diamond in the rough types, you find the people who have already proven they stand up to tough challenges.
 
2013-03-12 06:39:18 PM

AdolfClamwacker: timujin: The best talent these days doesn't necessarily come from Stanford or MIT, sometimes it's just a wunderkind hacker who's never even gone to college. Ignoring that because of some antiquated idea of what corporate standards should be can ruin an IT company.

The days of the basement dwelling hacker being a super star in IT are mostly over.  To fill nearly 1000 positions you are not going to find diamond in the rough types, you find the people who have already proven they stand up to tough challenges.


To fill 1000 positions? No.  But to deny employment to those who have come risen to the top through non-traditional means is shooting yourself in the foot.  Also, as has been pointed out by many here and in the article I posted above: "Yahoo doesn't have the luxury of turning down a lot of highly qualified people right now. It doesn't have the same prestige as Google or Facebook."
 
2013-03-12 06:45:56 PM

Magorn: The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else


I actually now want to take it based on your description.  Just did some sample questions online, aced them, they were fun.

mesmer242: Magorn: mesmer242: She wanted to give the LSAT to admins? Really? That's stupid.

Re: the college degree thing: I know some people who work for a large company that requires only certain bachelor's degrees (CS, CE, EE, etc.) for many positions. They don't do this because they want to. They do this because it cuts down on discrimination claims when someone doesn't get hired. They used to take the self taught, and the history majors turned computer gurus... and it bit them in the ass.

When I took them, the line was that the LSATS gauged your reading comprehension, logic reasoning, and problem solving skills.  SO I see why she might have thought they'd be a good thing to test.  The problem is they do absolutely no such thing, and basically reward those good at, those extensively coached, in how  to, identify the "trick" in the logic puzzles they present, and pretty much little else

(No I'm not bitter, I hit the 98 percentile on the test because those puzzles are in my wheelhouse)

Yes, that's why I think it's stupid. I both studied standardized tests from an academic perspective, as well as taught standardized test classes for one of the major companies (not the LSAT though). Academic tests are a weak predictor of academic success, and work best when combined with other information such as GPA in previous academic endeavors. And predicting workplace success based on the LSAT is even less likely, as a large scale empirical study of lawyers rated on various positive attributes showed that most correlations were very weak (.1 or less) and some were actually negative (-.19 on networking).

There are people that argue that IQ testing shows a correlation with job success, but there have also been studies that show that over a certain IQ (115 or so), there's almost no difference. The strongest correlations are when people go into a job with no previous experience.

What gets me is they weren't talking about introducing these tests into the hiring process - they were talking ...


I get the idea that Yahoo has no idea how much work any of their employees are doing.  One of the justifications for getting rid of telecommuting was that they couldn't tell who was actually doing their work and who were deadbeats.  That, combined with wanting existing admins to take the LSATs, seems to paint a clear picture that Yahoo has some serious management issues.  Either the new CEO is a control freak who needs to look over people's shoulders to see if they are working, or management has been so bad the last few years they don't have any reliable methods of measuring individual work output or quality.
 
2013-03-12 07:02:38 PM

Magorn: She still basically cancelled all work from home because she felt that people working at home weren't 100% focused on their jobs, and then, at the same time, installed something in HER office that makes it clear she doesn;t intend to focus on her job 100% of the time.  It's a really obnoxious expression of an RHIP attitude


She didn't 'feel' that people working from home weren't doing their jobs - she had data that showed they weren't even logging in to the corporate network. So they were paying 0% attention. I hardly think taking a minute to feed your newborn, or spend lunch hour with them is a big deal - especially not when she's working longer than an 8 hour day to start with.

As some one who telecommutes for a major industry player, I can only shake my head in disbelief that this wasn't caught by her predecessors. Also, not every single employee who telecommutes was ordered back to the office.
 
2013-03-12 07:04:41 PM

Shrugging Atlas: If Mayer wasn't a good looking woman, would Yahoo! be getting any attention at all regardless of all these stupid policies?  Honest to god, every time it comes up the only thing I can think of is, "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


Yahoo got some publicity here recently because the national telecom use their shiatty email service and the whole thing got hacked all to shiat, Yahoo being criminally incompetent and all.

As far as I am aware, the only legitimate use Yahoo now has is their mailing group/list system which they will kill sometime soon
 
2013-03-12 07:07:19 PM

Tommy Moo: And if she wants to build a nursery and hire a nanny to take care of her kid with her own money, that's her business.


In the company offices? Her own business? No it farking isnt, it is the company's business, and the sort of practice you either do company wide or not at all. If a worker hired a nanny to look after their child by their desk they would be fired and you know it.

For a CEO to set up something like that for their personal use is in fact extraordinary.
 
2013-03-12 07:12:19 PM

cefm: If she wants to review and approve EVERY applicant then she's going to drive away her top managers and disillusion her employees pretty quickly.  When the CEO rejects the qualified candidate that the manager has already selected, she's telling the manager that he sucks and is a retard.  That kind of thing doesn't go over well.  Plus the guy who's overwhelmed with work and has empty cubicles on either side of him is going to burn out pretty fast.

Problems:  A) CEO approving every hire - that's not the CEO's job; B) Setting arbitrary and irrelevant standards for new hires that have nothing to do with the work product.

If she wants to be "better at hiring" there's one sure-fire way to do it - PAY MORE.  Other than that, you have to widen your acceptable pool (not doing it) and/or make the workplace more inviting (totally blew it) so......good luck with that.


She doesn't review every applicant - she signs off on the hire and the compensation package - fairly standard practice actually, and incidentally one that Google itself uses. Larry or Sergei signed off on every new hire for a very long time. And she does and has hired people without degrees. Hires without degrees tend to have been recruited for specific roles or expertise. It is only junior engineers that need a degree to get through the door. It is no different than the jobs that used to take only high school now requiring college - you need a way to winnow the applicant pool.
 
2013-03-12 07:19:15 PM
I don't think I can criticize what she is doing, because I don't know what her end-game actually is. Many say that Yahoo is a dying company - and many CEOs have built vast fortunes, not saving dying companies, but looting them. And one thing that involves is keeping the stock price up as long as possible - and slashing the workforce always works, at least in the short run. Laying people off and firing them costs money. Not filling positions and making the environment so unpleasant that people quit costs nothing.
If we don't necessarily know what she is really up to, how can we say she's doing it wrong?
 
2013-03-12 07:20:46 PM

verbaltoxin: So how long until an anonymous source from Yahoo tells the media, "Don't you think she looks tired?"


Yeah, but Harriet Jones never regretted her decision...
 
2013-03-12 07:32:10 PM

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor, lawyer, scientist or anything else with a 110-120 IQ, but you will likely be unskilled at just about anything else you try to learn outside your speciality.


The the truly capable - a small minority, like your father- are able to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. This applies to IQs above 120 or 130 - and the higher the IQ, the more detrimental structured learning and/or specialization becomes. The higher the IQ, the sharper the ability to see patterns - and the ability to see patterns ties in with the ability to see how different fields interrelate.


I'm guessing you don't have a degree.
 
2013-03-12 07:35:37 PM

Katie Couric's Crotch: She's the CEO of Yahoo. What are you doing with your life asshole?


Once I was the king of Spain.

/Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
 
2013-03-12 07:41:40 PM

Endive Wombat: dwrash: I hated college.. the learning pace was way too slow and I have a low tolerance for repetitive nonsense.

The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had.  I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

Give me a text book, I will read it and digest it in about a week and pass any test on its contents.

Why do we have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner in the class?... its PAINFUL.

I had a Stats professor fail me for not doing the homework in college.  Seriously.  I set the curve not only for the class that I was in, but for the other like 5 classes he was teaching that semester.  He claims that I was cheating.  I appeal my case to the dean of the math department and retake the much more difficult final in the deans office, 6 feet from him and pass it.

Ultimately because it was the professors decision and class, he still failed me for not doing any of the homework.  Farking asshole.


This tells me that if you read a requirements doc and didn't feel like doing some of them, then you wouldn't bother to implement them. In my algorithms classes, I did exactly half the homework plus 1 question, told my prof that I wasn't going to submit the rest and was that a problem. Or were you under the impression that there would be no homework in the class? I'm guessing you didn't read the syllabus.
 
2013-03-12 07:47:33 PM

cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor,


It's a stupid theory.

See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.
 
2013-03-12 07:52:20 PM

dwrash: The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had. I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.


When I was an Electronics major, I took a Pascal programming class for the hell of it.  It turned out I knew it better than the professor and he had the decency to recognize that fact in the class.  Yeah, I got an A.  It's hard to fail someone who does the homework assignment on paper, without verifying it on a computer, five minutes after he wrote the problem on the board, and I handed it in as I walked out.  I think he stopped bothering to grade my homework.
 
2013-03-12 07:53:48 PM
As a software engineer, this woman is a clueless idiot. Not hiring people without degrees? Not allowing anyone to work from home? Way to turn back the clock 20 years to outdated business practices. No wonder no one wants to work there.
 
2013-03-12 07:56:44 PM

OgreMagi: dwrash: The only courses I liked were 2 Comp-Sci courses where the professors gave preemtive final exams about 3 weeks into the course to see what kind of apptitude people had. I passed both exams and was told I got an A in the course and attendance was not necessary for the rest of the semester unless I wanted to help the other students.

When I was an Electronics major, I took a Pascal programming class for the hell of it.  It turned out I knew it better than the professor and he had the decency to recognize that fact in the class.  Yeah, I got an A.  It's hard to fail someone who does the homework assignment on paper, without verifying it on a computer, five minutes after he wrote the problem on the board, and I handed it in as I walked out.  I think he stopped bothering to grade my homework.


I just want you to know that when I say, "Oh my God", I'm thinking of you.

I bet you're quite handsome and I feel like I should write you a check for several thousand dollars.
 
2013-03-12 08:25:55 PM

impaler: cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor,

It's a stupid theory.

See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.


I think you completely missed the point.
 
2013-03-12 08:26:44 PM

impaler: See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.


That's a stupid argument - you might face plenty of difficulty if not an outright impossibility in becoming a Doctor (big-D) -- but I see no reason why a person of considerable intelligence would not be able to learn the information on their own that would otherwise enable them to be a doctor.

But the analogy ends there - a doctor can perform reasonably well with a reasonable ongoing commitment to learning. A software developer on the other hand can practically throw away knowledge more than a few years old - obvious exceptions notwithstanding. It's only getting worse as the number of languages and frameworks balloon out. It doesn't matter per se - a good developer should be able to learn any of them, but if you need someone to say, fix something, and fast, you can't rely on that. So what matters more is the real world working knowledge that they currently possess. The equivalent would be going to a doctor and saying "Hey, so I don't have any of the organs you would expect, but can you diagnose what's wrong with me?" - zombie apocalypse aside, would you want a vet looking at you?
 
2013-03-12 08:48:04 PM

daveinsurgent: impaler: See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.

That's a stupid argument - you might face plenty of difficulty if not an outright impossibility in becoming a Doctor (big-D) -- but I see no reason why a person of considerable intelligence would not be able to learn the information on their own that would otherwise enable them to be a doctor.

But the analogy ends there - a doctor can perform reasonably well with a reasonable ongoing commitment to learning. A software developer on the other hand can practically throw away knowledge more than a few years old - obvious exceptions notwithstanding. It's only getting worse as the number of languages and frameworks balloon out. It doesn't matter per se - a good developer should be able to learn any of them, but if you need someone to say, fix something, and fast, you can't rely on that. So what matters more is the real world working knowledge that they currently possess. The equivalent would be going to a doctor and saying "Hey, so I don't have any of the organs you would expect, but can you diagnose what's wrong with me?" - zombie apocalypse aside, would you want a vet looking at you?


The converse is always true.  If the thing was written, in whatever language, with strong foundational knowledge it probably wouldn't be broke and you wouldn't have to fix it quick in the first place.

Software development isn't about languages, it's about marshaling ideas and people using proven scientific and non-scientific principals .
 
2013-03-12 08:50:36 PM
Yahoo needs to go back to its roots of maintaining an organized list of links to the whole Web.
 
2013-03-12 08:58:30 PM

cybrwzrd: See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.

I think you completely missed the point.


As did you. A lot of people don't get degrees so they can learn, they get them to show that they have learned. Autodidactability be damned.
 
2013-03-12 08:59:48 PM

midigod: Darke: Is... is that not normal?  Sorry if this is a stupid question, but aren't you recovered enough after childbirth after two weeks to return to work?  What's normal for that?

You're physically "recovered" enough to go back to work after a couple of days.  But most mothers prefer to stay home for about six weeks to bond with their infant, a process that most pediatricians agree is very important for the future mental and physical health of the child.

I suspect though, that a policy of woman coming back after a specific amount of time that's much shorter than average has more to do with the company not wanting the mom to change her mind about coming back at all.  Because that happens a fair amount as well.


You will ooze blood clots for about a month, and wake up every 2-3 hours around the clock to nurse the baby for at least twenty minutes at a time. Your breasts will leak every time you think of your baby or hear another baby cry. You will be weepy, irritable, suffer short-term memory loss and find yourself so madly in love with your baby that every moment away from him is a feeling of pure anguish. You'll forget when you last showered for a couple of months and doze off throughout the day for about a year.

That's when everything goes well, as I hope it does for you. Don't let some freak with a team of nannies make you feel you have to prove anything. The family leave policies in this country are disgraceful. And this woman? She's not helping.
 
2013-03-12 09:01:22 PM

rohar: Software development isn't about languages


Okay sure, yes, that's a really great poetic thing to say, but "it probably wouldn't be broke" is really not applicable - you didn't necessarily break it, you don't get to make that decision, if everyone did things right most software developers would be unemployed. Not to mention requirements change - there's little purpose in distinguishing between a bug and a feature request if they both change behavior. At the end of the day software developers get money to solve problems - the business doesn't really care about proven scientific or non-scientific principles, in fact sometimes those can outright harm the business if they are not used pragmatically. Software development is about languages, it's also about frameworks, and people - it's about whatever it takes to solve the problem and generate profit (or most likely reduce cost) for the business. No more and no less. A smart business doesn't care if you have your PhD - if you've never written a line of Perl and they have something that needs to be changed (there, I said that instead of 'fixed'), a high school student who hacks in their spare time is going to be more desirable.
 
2013-03-12 09:11:02 PM

daveinsurgent: rohar: Software development isn't about languages

Okay sure, yes, that's a really great poetic thing to say, but "it probably wouldn't be broke" is really not applicable - you didn't necessarily break it, you don't get to make that decision, if everyone did things right most software developers would be unemployed. Not to mention requirements change - there's little purpose in distinguishing between a bug and a feature request if they both change behavior. At the end of the day software developers get money to solve problems - the business doesn't really care about proven scientific or non-scientific principles, in fact sometimes those can outright harm the business if they are not used pragmatically. Software development is about languages, it's also about frameworks, and people - it's about whatever it takes to solve the problem and generate profit (or most likely reduce cost) for the business. No more and no less. A smart business doesn't care if you have your PhD - if you've never written a line of Perl and they have something that needs to be changed (there, I said that instead of 'fixed'), a high school student who hacks in their spare time is going to be more desirable.


I was going to argue this, the realized you're possibly my competition and it's to my advantage you remain ignorant.
 
2013-03-12 09:15:12 PM
RexTalionis
Marissa Mayer is Employee #20 at Google and was the engineer who helped design almost all of Google's core services for a while. What is your criteria for geek so that Mayer isn't one?

I probably understated her geek credentials. She was hired as an engineer early on in Google's existence, though fairly quickly took a career turn towards management and executive roles.
 
2013-03-12 09:16:35 PM

daveinsurgent: if everyone did things right most software developers would be unemployed... At the end of the day software developers get money to solve problems...sometimes [proven principles] can outright harm the business if they are not used pragmatically... A smart business doesn't care if you have your PhD... a high school student who hacks in their spare time is going to be more desirable.


Looks like the high school student who hacks in their spare time is the cause and solution to all your problems.
 
2013-03-12 09:22:39 PM

impaler: As did you. A lot of people don't get degrees so they can learn, they get them to show that they have learned. Autodidactability be damned.


How does a degree show that you have learned? A degree shows that you had the persistence to complete it. It does not show that you have knowledge. I have learned a hell of a lot more in the last 5 years of my life through experience from actually doing than the 4 years prior to that which was spent in university.
 
2013-03-12 09:29:32 PM

impaler: cybrwzrd: This is just a theory of mine:


Degrees are for people who are not intelligent enough or adaptable enough to learn and succeed on their own, which happens to be the plurality of humanity. I would say that for people of average iq - 90-120, a degree - or some sort of specialization is necessary to succeed in life. You can be a very good doctor,

It's a stupid theory.

See how far you get trying to become a Doctor without a degree.


Specialized case.  An MD comes with a bunch of on-the-job training.  It's not like most degrees.

Generally, I've found that having a degree is only weakly correlated to actual intelligence.  I've met plenty of very smart people who don't have degrees, and plenty of stupid people who do.  What it seems to measure more closely than intelligence is perseverance.
 
2013-03-12 09:33:23 PM
Pretty soon, this will be the only Yahoo anyone remembers:

donteatthegrapefruit.files.wordpress.com

I'm Serious!
 
2013-03-12 09:33:39 PM

rohar: Software development isn't about languages, it's about marshaling ideas and people using proven scientific and non-scientific principals  logic.


FTFY.  If you can't think logically, it doesn't matter how many languages you know, you'll generate shiat code.

If you can think logically, then learning a new language is merely memorizing syntax.

Unfortunately, some people, even people with advanced CS degrees, have a hard time thinking logically.
 
2013-03-12 09:57:05 PM
I don't care what she does at Yahoo.  She could have everyone sit in a drum circle and chant all day for all I care.  Problem is, it's affecting the site.  Since she has taken over, the place is going backwards and looks more and more like something from the late 90's run by a sorority.  The colors, fonts, the usability of the email page is all garish and clunky.  Hearing all about Bill Clinton and what Obama had for lunch and what Kim Kardashian is doing right-farking-now is getting old.  Having her face telling everyone that she's made some exciting changes to Yahoo that she just knows you will like without giving you any choice in the matter is just icing on the cake.
Any company going into the shiatter will have massive layoffs to boost the stock price in order to buy time.  By impeding the hiring like she is, she keeps the payroll down without having to explain the real reason why.  She looks like the hero.  It's her short game, probably all she's got.
 
2013-03-12 10:06:09 PM

cybrwzrd: impaler: As did you. A lot of people don't get degrees so they can learn, they get them to show that they have learned. Autodidactability be damned.

How does a degree show that you have learned? A degree shows that you had the persistence to complete it. It does not show that you have knowledge. I have learned a hell of a lot more in the last 5 years of my life through experience from actually doing than the 4 years prior to that which was spent in university.


And no degree? What does that show? No one ever said a degree proves someone is intelligent. It conveys information.
 
2013-03-12 10:10:58 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: OgreMagi:

When I was an Electronics major, I took a Pascal programming class for the hell of it.  It turned out I knew it better than the professor and he had the decency to recognize that fact in the class.  Yeah, I got an A.  It's hard to fail someone who does the homework assignment on paper, without verifying it on a computer, five minutes after he wrote the problem on the board, and I handed it in as I walked out.  I think he stopped bothering to grade my homework.

I just want you to know that when I say, "Oh my God", I'm thinking of you.

I bet you're quite handsome and I feel like I should write you a check for several thousand dollars.


Fark you very much for revealing yourself as a dumbass who has enmity toward people who succeed on their own.

Similar to OgreMagi's story, when I started college in an engineering curriculum, one of the required classed was "Introduction to Computer Science" (FORTRAN).  They were wise enough then (in 1986) to realize that it may be too BASIC (sorry, small joke in large font) for some and provided an optional, early exam in the 2nd week.  Pass it, you get an A.  Fail it, you continue attending the class and earn your grade.  What is wrong with that?  Nothing.  I think a student oughta be able to "CLEP" any class, not just the low level ones usually set aside for CLEPing.
 
2013-03-12 10:43:06 PM
Farty McPooPants: Valid criticism... its font choices and design are pretty clunky and garish. But to be fair, Yahoo looks better than it ever did.

The problem Yahoo has had, and continues to have, is in answering the question: what is Yahoo's role in the industry? It tries to be a cloud e-mail provider, a search engine, a content aggregator, a discussion forum, a travel site, and a news site... but it does none of these particularly well.

This might strike someone at first as mirroring Google's approach, but really it isn't - Google started out by doing one thing best, then when they'd mastered that they moved on to one other thing, and one other thing. These days adherence to that "do one thing and do it well" formula has waned a bit at Google (and they've suffered a bit as a result, I'd argue), but at Yahoo it never applied at all - they've never shaken that 1990s dated "we're a portal site" mentality.

Consequently, Yahoo's customers are generally confined to the people who never shook the 1990s "we want a portal site" mentality - low-tech/low-brow/soccer-mom/change-intolerant types, to cast casual aspersions on market segments. Is that really a niche needing to be filled, or just an unsustainable attempt to capitalize on the lowest common denominator of the day? With the scheduled demise of iGoogle, we seem to have that company's answer.

/call me, Marissa
 
2013-03-12 11:10:51 PM
Eight weeks to get back to someone?  Screw that.
 
2013-03-12 11:31:08 PM

mmagdalene: Your breasts will leak every time you think of your baby or hear another baby cry. You will be weepy, irritable, suffer short-term memory loss and find yourself so madly in love with your baby that every moment away from him is a feeling of pure anguish. You'll forget when you last showered for a couple of months and doze off throughout the day for about a year.


Thankfully, that is not the experience for every woman who has a child. The way you describe it makes my skin crawl.

/woman
/had a child
 
2013-03-13 12:03:14 AM
Yahoo has over 10 thousand employees? Bullshiat. To do -what-? The only time anyone goes to yahoo is by a misclick.
 
2013-03-13 01:17:49 AM

soakitincider: this lady is a terrible CEO.


No, Ron Johnson is a terrible CEO.

GFYRJ.
 
2013-03-13 02:19:57 AM

Geotpf: poot_rootbeer: Guys, can you maybe find a way to critique Mayer's job performance without calling her a "twat" or a "coont"?

Come on.

I actually note a hint of sexism in all the well publicized attacks on her.  Not that they aren't valid critisims, but the fact that they are well publicized is the sexist part.  That is, lots of tech companies have morons for CEOs, but we keep hearing about her because she's a she.


It's not like she is a rock star always on Today or anything, right? Maybe the tech media is a bit sexist, but that's just how it is right now. She's not doing herself any favors by going on all these shows talking about how great she is when her policies are actually pretty bad and short-sighted. She gets no sympathy from me.

It's like the proverb said: better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
 
2013-03-13 08:31:15 AM
RatOMeter
Fark you very much for revealing yourself as a dumbass who has enmity toward people who succeed on their own.

Wow, you believe his story? Even if it's true why would you even mention it on Fark?

Look, I meet these "geniuses from the 90's" all the time. They're never as smart as they think they are and I've burned thousands of hours fixing their clusterfark messes. God, the worst are the ones with the hammer of recursion and EVERYTHING is a nail.

"But I taught the professor!"

Really? Because let's call him up and see if he remembers you. When they cough and say, "We've since revised our grading policies to provide improved feedback to problem students" in response, it confirms quite a bit.

/goes off to the angry dome
 
2013-03-13 08:32:27 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: RatOMeter
Fark you very much for revealing yourself as a dumbass who has enmity toward people who succeed on their own.

Wow, you believe his story? Even if it's true why would you even mention it on Fark?

Look, I meet these "geniuses from the 90's" all the time. They're never as smart as they think they are and I've burned thousands of hours fixing their clusterfark messes. God, the worst are the ones with the hammer of recursion and EVERYTHING is a nail.

"But I taught the professor!"

Really? Because let's call him up and see if he remembers you. When they cough and say, "We've since revised our grading policies to provide improved feedback to problem students" in response, it confirms quite a bit.

/goes off to the angry dome


Heh, yeah. My experience with these "geniuses" has been pretty much the same.
 
2013-03-13 01:06:19 PM
Mayer reminds me of the Realty company I was a junior network admin at 4 years ago. The owner of the company kept demanding that the senior admin and I do things HIS way, despite the fact that what he wanted done on the network made no sense, or was expensive enough that he refused to pay for the correct solution (and he demanded that we "Find a way to do it" anyway). He would always respond to our refusals or demands with " I have a Computer Sciences degree, and you don't so you will do it MY way." His CS degree was 20 FRIGGIN' YEARS OLD.

The senior admin and I had graduated from a 2 year tech school with full honors in a Computers and Networking course the year we started working there (we both had current MCSA, NET+, MS Server 2008, and Security+ certs). The last straw was when the Evil Boss decided he wanted us to go out and pirate licenses for his new 20 computer office. We refused, and he had a contractor that he was old buddies with do the deed . He then told us at a all inclusive company meeting we could do what he asked without question, or leave. The entire 5 man I.T. team confronted him before the rest of the employees about what he had done, then collectively walked out. We tipped off Microsoft about the piracy and the last I heard he got nailed on charges of Piracy, Federal embezzlement (some interesting files were found in the search of the drives), and Real Estate Fraud. Scumbag lost his company and went to prison.

Anyway, just because you have a CS degree doesn't mean that you know jack about modern systems. Or that you can be trusted, for that matter.

/CSB done
 
2013-03-13 05:13:49 PM

Shrugging Atlas: "Why the fark is Yahoo still around?"


So one can create multiple free email accounts for signing up for porn and trolling for trim on 4chan/SOC...
 
2013-03-13 07:13:17 PM
A lot of butthurt here from folks without degrees. I also know many idiots who stuck it out long enough to get a degree. I even know idiots with master's and PhD's.

Experience goes a long, long way. While I'd be unlikely to hire someone with no degree and little experience for a BS-level job, I'd have no problem ignoring the degree for an experienced hire.

But, experience doesn't cover everything. It all depends on the person (just like with a degree). You can spend your whole life in an echo chamber and never really expand your thinking. I know plenty of people my age (40's) who haven't learned a damn thing that wasn't their job in 20 years. They get on my nerves.

I'm really looking for a lifetime learner when I hire someone. Degree isn't too important if you can demonstrate you have the skills. But for some jobs, epidemiology for one, I've never met a successful practitioner without the degree. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it doesn't seem to happen. I wouldn't hire you for a job that primarily publishes peer-reviewed work if you don't have an advanced degree, unless you've published 25+ papers. I know grad school tremendously improved my research skills.
 
2013-03-13 08:48:49 PM

stewbert: A lot of butthurt here from folks without degrees. I also know many idiots who stuck it out long enough to get a degree. I even know idiots with master's and PhD's.


After I contracted at Google for a year I had this to say about them, "The largest concentration of idiots with advanced degrees in the entire world."

I think my basic problem with them was such a huge number were fresh out of college and had no actual concept of how things actually worked in the real world.  I'm sure most of them will eventually become productive members of society, but they need to spend time in the trenches first.
 
Displayed 257 of 257 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report