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(Politico)   Now that Obamacare is the law of the land, Democrats are having a go at deciding that portions of it are stupid. Grab the popcorn   (politico.com) divider line 128
    More: Amusing, obamacare, Democrats, law of the land, Maria Cantwell, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services  
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1891 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Mar 2013 at 7:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 07:32:28 AM  
Yea, that's what happens when you water something down to get it to pass Congress rather than just go single payer
 
2013-03-12 07:32:33 AM  
Well, it ain't perfect and it could sure be improved, but like in TFA, it's still a huge milestone.
 
2013-03-12 07:33:03 AM  
This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.
 
2013-03-12 07:36:00 AM  

MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.


if Obama came out demanding its repeal, they'd be falling all over themselves defending it.

Honestly, I could see him doing that for the lulz.
 
2013-03-12 07:37:02 AM  

Klivian: Yea, that's what happens when you water something down to get it to pass Congress rather than just go single payer


This. Hate it that much? Go single payer or public option and say no more.
 
2013-03-12 07:37:06 AM  

MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.


The Democrats should introduce a bill stating that a Public Option will never be allowed in the insurance exchanges.
 
2013-03-12 07:39:54 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.

The Democrats should introduce a bill stating that a Public Option will never be allowed in the insurance exchanges.


What? Why would they do that... oh I see where you're going.

/time for coffee, apparently
 
2013-03-12 07:42:29 AM  

ox45tallboy: MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.

if Obama came out demanding its repeal, they'd be falling all over themselves defending it.

Honestly, I could see him doing that for the lulz.



Are you kidding? In 2016, they'll be trying to take credit for it.
 
2013-03-12 07:46:35 AM  
without reading, let me guess...

They dont like the parts of it that pay for it, while they like the parts that spend money?
 
2013-03-12 07:47:21 AM  
We had thousands of pages of government run granny-killin' to shove down the country's throat. It was bound to get a little messy.
 
2013-03-12 07:50:51 AM  
Looks like the lobbyists have shown up.
 
2013-03-12 07:54:03 AM  
Yes, the Democrats that are against it say that it doesn't do enough while the Republicans who are against it say it does too much.  I would point out the false equivalency, but I hope I don't need to...
 
2013-03-12 07:58:47 AM  
Well, that's what you get for something half-assed. No one is really going to like it.
 
2013-03-12 08:00:57 AM  
The stupid portions? You mean the bit where it's a give-away to the insurance companies rather than giving Americans universal health care?
 
2013-03-12 08:01:04 AM  

I sound fat: without reading, let me guess...

They dont like the parts of it that pay for it, while they like the parts that spend money?


The GOP staked out that position years ago.
 
2013-03-12 08:04:50 AM  

thurstonxhowell: I sound fat: without reading, let me guess...

They dont like the parts of it that pay for it, while they like the parts that spend money?

The GOP staked out that position years ago.



What position? Not reading?
 
2013-03-12 08:06:23 AM  

stoli n coke: thurstonxhowell: I sound fat: without reading, let me guess...

They dont like the parts of it that pay for it, while they like the parts that spend money?

The GOP staked out that position years ago.


What position? Not reading?


Well, technically, it's called "home schooling," but yeah, that position.
 
2013-03-12 08:10:29 AM  
Democrats find plenty of it stupid, because it was assraped and mangled by republican obstructionism, so what we got was a watered down piece of shiat, instead of any kind of actual reform at all.

farking insurance industry, no farking better than pay day loan scam stores. Parasites that are worthy only of death.
 
2013-03-12 08:12:47 AM  
Hmmm, so it turns out we did have to pass it in order to understand what's in it.
 
2013-03-12 08:14:56 AM  
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) has threatened to vote against Obama's nominee to lead the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services unless the administration allows states to run a Basic Health Plan, an optional program that allows states to use federal subsidies to insure people just above the federal poverty level. But the administration has put that option off for at least a year.

"It seems as if the agency is taking, I don't know, how many pages out of 900 [pages of the health law] and saying, that's the health plan," she said. "As far as I'm concerned, I think the president signed all 900 pages."

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) then demanded that Cohen explain why the Obama administration "negotiated away" money for another small piece of the law, one to set up insurance co-ops to compete with commercial insurers in the state-based health insurance exchanges. He warned that the administration is risking the entire law's success.

Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) went to the Senate floor recently to criticize an HHS regulation, stemming from the health law, that he said doesn't do enough to ensure that children have access to dental care.


Hey guys, guys, you know what would help you cover all those people and more?

Single payer.
 
2013-03-12 08:22:52 AM  

stoli n coke: ox45tallboy: MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.

if Obama came out demanding its repeal, they'd be falling all over themselves defending it.

Honestly, I could see him doing that for the lulz.


Are you kidding? In 2016, they'll be trying to take credit for it.


BoehnerCare?

/ Why is everyone giggling?
 
2013-03-12 08:26:41 AM  
Yes, subby, some adults are capable of altering their views based on new information.
 
2013-03-12 08:34:37 AM  

ox45tallboy: MacWizard: This will be fun. Everything the Dems decide is stupid will instantly become the only provisions that are important to the Republicans.

if Obama came out demanding its repeal, they'd be falling all over themselves defending it.

Honestly, I could see him doing that for the lulz.


I just want Michelle to come out against eating large amounts of arsenic, just to see if they will take the bait on opposing anything she comes out in favor of.
 
2013-03-12 08:35:16 AM  
Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.
 
2013-03-12 08:39:59 AM  

Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.


As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.
 
2013-03-12 08:47:24 AM  
Not much of a mystery.  Government farks up everything it touches.
Politicians supported this because their party leadershipsaid to support it. Now that blind faith has been rewarded, they are stuck with the results.

Time to point fingers.
 
2013-03-12 08:48:10 AM  

cchris_39: Looks like the lobbyists have shown up.


wut?  they wrote it
 
2013-03-12 08:52:12 AM  
Subby, welcome to the legislative process.  This is them doing their job.  Stop complaining, or they'll stop.
 
2013-03-12 08:52:54 AM  

verbaltoxin: Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.

As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.


Did you come in here looking for an echo chamber?

The bill was a dog's breakfast at its introduction and the legislative process made it more so. Are you surprised that legislators want to re-visit the whole mess and carve out more goodies?
 
2013-03-12 08:53:05 AM  
Is it just me or are Democrats generally more wonky in their criticism of domestic policy? Like, what Republican plans have they ever tried to blatantly repeal? Even things like Medicare Part D that are go-to examples of waste they say should be reformed and not replaced. Republicans really should learn to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good: the tendency to call for repeal of any policy they disagree with the efficacy of as well as defend programs they support as ideal rather than be open to reforms is more partisan than political.
 
2013-03-12 08:54:47 AM  
People really need to stop confusing insurance with health care. Insurance strives to not deliver care.
 
2013-03-12 08:54:54 AM  

Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.


Everyone knows healthcare should be entirely profit driven. Giving power to corporations never leads to corruption.
 
2013-03-12 08:56:18 AM  

PanicMan: Subby, welcome to the legislative process. This is them doing their job. Stop complaining, or they'll stop.


It would be GREAT if they stopped, at least for a breather. The system is infected with chronic just-DO-something syndrome, with scant reflection on whether something should be done at all and whether it has to be the federal government that does it.
 
2013-03-12 09:00:58 AM  

Gulper Eel: PanicMan: Subby, welcome to the legislative process. This is them doing their job. Stop complaining, or they'll stop.

It would be GREAT if they stopped, at least for a breather. The system is infected with chronic just-DO-something syndrome, with scant reflection on whether something should be done at all and whether it has to be the federal government that does it.


Yeah what's government's problem? Why is it always trying to govern? Why can't it stop that for a while?

Of course if it did, you'd be right here complaining about a "do-nothing government."
 
2013-03-12 09:01:29 AM  
It is like the beginning of a Kurt Vonnegut book where he describes a fisherman that caught a whale so big that he couldn't fit it on the boat.  Instead of butchering it at sea and taking only the important parts the sailor decided to try and tow the whole thing into shore.  When he got there he realized that the sharks had picked the entire thing bone dry.   It's like that but with greedy corporations and peoples lives instead.
 
2013-03-12 09:03:28 AM  

Citrate1007: It is like the beginning of a Kurt Vonnegut book where he describes a fisherman that caught a whale so big that he couldn't fit it on the boat.  Instead of butchering it at sea and taking only the important parts the sailor decided to try and tow the whole thing into shore.  When he got there he realized that the sharks had picked the entire thing bone dry.   It's like that but with greedy corporations and peoples lives instead.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-12 09:04:12 AM  
jgbrowning
People really need to stop confusing insurance with health care. Insurance strives to not deliver care.

No, for-profit insurance does that. Single-payer insurance run by the government really only ever has to break even - they can pay out as much in claims as the premiums they take in without mind to paying dividends or executive bonuses or showing year-over-year profit growth.
 
2013-03-12 09:08:38 AM  

Gulper Eel: PanicMan: Subby, welcome to the legislative process. This is them doing their job. Stop complaining, or they'll stop.

It would be GREAT if they stopped, at least for a breather. The system is infected with chronic just-DO-something syndrome, with scant reflection on whether something should be done at all and whether it has to be the federal government that does it.


I don't get it. There is no Federal program that hits age 3-4 that doesn't get tinkered with at least once - you have to address unintended consequences, readjust funding levels (or reauthorize them) based on how the initial projections stack against reality, maybe tighten some language here and add some more protection there, make the sentences harsher or the fines smaller.

Or would you rather they not address these problems and let the law stand as-is? I'm absolutely sure if you looked through the OMG 2,300-and-potato pages you could find something objectionable, yes?
 
2013-03-12 09:11:25 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Citrate1007: It is like the beginning of a Kurt Vonnegut book where he describes a fisherman that caught a whale so big that he couldn't fit it on the boat.  Instead of butchering it at sea and taking only the important parts the sailor decided to try and tow the whole thing into shore.  When he got there he realized that the sharks had picked the entire thing bone dry.   It's like that but with greedy corporations and peoples lives instead.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x292]


Yes I know, but I prefer Vonnegut's summary in Timequake.  Much more crass language involved.
 
2013-03-12 09:11:31 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Everyone knows healthcare should be entirely profit driven. Giving power to corporations never leads to corruption.


That also leads to corruption, obviously. But if you're going to put your health in somebody else's hands, it's a pick-your-poison situation. And it is far from clear that the solution lies in Washington. There are aspects of our health we should be handling more of ourselves. I'm thinking primarily of nutrition here, along with anything else we do to our bodies - and yet we have a federal government that actively impedes our ability to do right by ourselves. Think agriculture subsidies, for starters. We subsidize crap, for the most part. We subsidize crap through the food-stamp system, too. Recipients understandably spend their limited resources on the cheapest calories - again, the crap. And then we're surprised at high obesity and diabetes rates for the poor.

At least when the private sector trainwrecks something, I can invest in them and make a buck off it. When the public sector trainwrecks something, everybody's poorer - except those who had the massive resources needed to buy a piece of public-sector power.

Add complexity to the system (and this health-care law is nothing if not complex) and it benefits those with the resources to work the complexity to their advantage - again, that's those who already have the most.

If the federal government has a role here at all, it's to protect us from out-of-the-blue catastrophic health issues (e.g. Lou Gehrig's disease) and to encourage preventive self-care. Instead, they encourage the opposite - everything from obesity to unnecessary testing.

Why would I think that with the Obama plan, that this time they really got it right, honest they did?
 
2013-03-12 09:13:10 AM  

Citrate1007: It is like the beginning of a Kurt Vonnegut book where he describes a fisherman that caught a whale so big that he couldn't fit it on the boat.  Instead of butchering it at sea and taking only the important parts the sailor decided to try and tow the whole thing into shore.  When he got there he realized that the sharks had picked the entire thing bone dry.   It's like that but with greedy corporations and peoples lives instead.


Yep.
 
2013-03-12 09:15:05 AM  

verbaltoxin: Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.

As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.


I think that the mistake was made by YOU when you expected anything more than a stream of feces dribbling from his mouth...
 
2013-03-12 09:15:33 AM  

Dr Dreidel: I don't get it. There is no Federal program that hits age 3-4 that doesn't get tinkered with at least once - you have to address unintended consequences, readjust funding levels (or reauthorize them) based on how the initial projections stack against reality, maybe tighten some language here and add some more protection there, make the sentences harsher or the fines smaller.

Or would you rather they not address these problems and let the law stand as-is? I'm absolutely sure if you looked through the OMG 2,300-and-potato pages you could find something objectionable, yes?


What you get over the years may be spots of improvement in the original program, but you also get mission creep and metastasizing spending, plus constitutencies that build up around parts of the program that may be clearly failing but provide a lot of political benefit.

There is no way to assume that tinkering will make something better, especially if it's in the tinkerers' interests to do otherwise.
 
2013-03-12 09:17:49 AM  

Tarl3k: verbaltoxin: Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.

As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.

I think that the mistake was made by YOU when you expected anything more than a stream of feces dribbling from his mouth...


Oh no, I'm well acquainted. I'm just letting him know up front that nobody gives a sh*t. With many farkers I'm through with the pretense of listening to their opinions. And by many I mean about 90% of Fark.
 
2013-03-12 09:19:56 AM  

verbaltoxin: Tarl3k: verbaltoxin: Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.

As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.

I think that the mistake was made by YOU when you expected anything more than a stream of feces dribbling from his mouth...

Oh no, I'm well acquainted. I'm just letting him know up front that nobody gives a sh*t. With many farkers I'm through with the pretense of listening to their opinions. And by many I mean about 90% of Fark.


I'll put you down for 'echo chamber' then.
 
2013-03-12 09:20:29 AM  

Gulper Eel: What you get over the years may be spots of improvement in the original program, but you also get mission creep and metastasizing spending, plus constitutencies that build up around parts of the program that may be clearly failing but provide a lot of political benefit.

There is no way to assume that tinkering will make something better, especially if it's in the tinkerers' interests to do otherwise.


See the defense industry for examples
 
2013-03-12 09:21:01 AM  

Gulper Eel: verbaltoxin: Tarl3k: verbaltoxin: Gulper Eel: Astounding. Congress fiddles with the health care system to make it more politically-driven and there are still problems?

Clearly the solution to this dilemma is to make it 100 percent politically driven, and screw you haters for bringing up piddling small things like budgets, basic competence and the tendency of power to corrupt.

As usual your additions to this discussion amount to jack squat.

I think that the mistake was made by YOU when you expected anything more than a stream of feces dribbling from his mouth...

Oh no, I'm well acquainted. I'm just letting him know up front that nobody gives a sh*t. With many farkers I'm through with the pretense of listening to their opinions. And by many I mean about 90% of Fark.

I'll put you down for 'echo chamber' then.


I don't give a flying f*ck what you do. There. Is it clear enough for you?
 
2013-03-12 09:21:14 AM  

Gulper Eel: Philip Francis Queeg: Everyone knows healthcare should be entirely profit driven. Giving power to corporations never leads to corruption.

That also leads to corruption, obviously. But if you're going to put your health in somebody else's hands, it's a pick-your-poison situation. And it is far from clear that the solution lies in Washington. There are aspects of our health we should be handling more of ourselves. I'm thinking primarily of nutrition here, along with anything else we do to our bodies - and yet we have a federal government that actively impedes our ability to do right by ourselves. Think agriculture subsidies, for starters. We subsidize crap, for the most part. We subsidize crap through the food-stamp system, too. Recipients understandably spend their limited resources on the cheapest calories - again, the crap. And then we're surprised at high obesity and diabetes rates for the poor.

At least when the private sector trainwrecks something, I can invest in them and make a buck off it. When the public sector trainwrecks something, everybody's poorer - except those who had the massive resources needed to buy a piece of public-sector power.

Add complexity to the system (and this health-care law is nothing if not complex) and it benefits those with the resources to work the complexity to their advantage - again, that's those who already have the most.

If the federal government has a role here at all, it's to protect us from out-of-the-blue catastrophic health issues (e.g. Lou Gehrig's disease) and to encourage preventive self-care. Instead, they encourage the opposite - everything from obesity to unnecessary testing.

Why would I think that with the Obama plan, that this time they really got it right, honest they did?


Yes., putting your health entirely in the care of anonymous, unaccountable corporate bureaucrats who's only concern is spending as little money on you as possible is unquestionably the smart choice. Like you I want the major corporations to have as much power as possible, without restraint form the elected government. Like you I'd like to see food stamps ended and the poor left to be cared for by the overwhelming generosity of companies like McDonalds and Kraft. Only then will we be free and healthy.

God Bless the Multinational Corporation and God Damn the United States of America.
 
2013-03-12 09:24:17 AM  

Gulper Eel: What you get over the years may be spots of improvement in the original program, but you also get mission creep and metastasizing spending, plus constitutencies that build up around parts of the program that may be clearly failing but provide a lot of political benefit.

There is no way to assume that tinkering will make something better, especially if it's in the tinkerers' interests to do otherwise.


But I can guarantee that nothing improves if we don't tinker. There are those in Congress who aren't in it to further themselves - and if they get their way even on a few key points, health insurance in this country improves.

// can there be found at least 10 righteous people there?
 
2013-03-12 09:24:57 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Like you I'd like to see food stamps ended and the poor left to be cared for by the overwhelming generosity of companies like McDonalds and Kraft. Only then will we be free and healthy.


"Carls Jr does not wish your kids to starve, please wait here for police so your children can be placed into protective services"
 
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