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(BBC)   Bill to lower Scottish voting age to 16, presumably to encourage voting by video game   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 21
    More: Asinine, SNP, University of Strathclyde, independence referendum, Scottish Government  
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1217 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2013 at 8:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 09:03:55 AM
5 votes:

magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering. The SNP know they can leverage young idiots to vote for independence.


So what?

Right leaning and xenophobic parties have leveraged old idiots to vote for them ever since democracy was invented.

It's about time the playing field was levelled.
2013-03-12 09:59:32 AM
3 votes:
You guys are right, how could Scotland possibly be a country in its own right without the UK?

Who would give us bedroom tax? Who would screw our disabled into the ground? Without the UK military how could we possibly hope to contribute in illegal wars? Our whisky and oil revenues would only make us the sixth richest nation on earth, so yeah, how could we POSSIBLY do it alone!???

Scotland is too wee and too stupid to stand on its own without the good old UK running things. At least that's what we are fed by the 'Scottish Media'. My hope is that this horseshiat gets thrown out the window for the referendum.

Just tune into any BBC channel and see how evil and hopeless the SNP and Independence are - I wonder, could the BBC be shiatting it about having their government sanctioned extortion racket halted by an independent Scotland? Nah, couldn't be, I'm sure they have our best interests at heart!

The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.
2013-03-12 09:36:15 AM
3 votes:
Plumbledum:

I don't have the figure to hand but Scotland relies on heavy subsidies from the rest of the UK to survive ...


Doesn't look like it. Seems that Scotland is actually a net contributor to the UK:

"...including a geographical share of UK North Sea oil and gas revenues, Scotland contributes a greater share of public sector revenues than it receives in UK public spending.  The official statistics show Scotland contributed 9.9% of all UK revenues in 2011-12 but received only 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments.  Scotland's population is 8.4 per cent of the UK total.

The figures also show Scotland has significantly lower deficit levels than the UK."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/03/GERScomment6313
2013-03-12 08:39:38 AM
3 votes:
The SNP probably knows how to read polls and figures it increases their chances of winning independence.
2013-03-12 10:15:17 AM
2 votes:

farkeruk: "No-one has a bigger stake in the future of our country than today's young people and it is only right that they are able to have a say in the most important vote to be held in Scotland for three centuries. "

I dread the idea of a 16 year old (and I include myself as a 16 year old) getting a democratic vote. You're still at school, living with your parents, being fed, clothed, probably never travelled on your own, and possibly never had paid employment beyond a paper round.

Personally, I'd make it that you have to have worked for a couple of years to get the vote.


What if you have left school, are ful time employed, are married, have children.  The age of legal majority in Scotland is 16
2013-03-12 09:58:41 AM
2 votes:
Personally I'm happier with Scots voting at 16 than I am with the age that you allow children to drive in the US.
2013-03-12 08:49:20 AM
2 votes:
That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?
2013-03-12 01:28:11 PM
1 votes:

dumbobruni: meanmutton: meanmutton: YourOwnMedicine: I've seen a lot of columnists/commenters saying (or heavily implying) that lowering the voting age is a cynical move on the part of the SNP to get more votes for independence, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that.

Does anyone have any links to opinion polls that show 16/17 year olds are more likely to vote in favour of independence than older people?

I'm just wondering if people are assuming 16 and 17 year olds will vote for independence because in the opinion polls we have seen polling people from 18 and over show that younger people are more likely to vote for independence. Given how different life is for a 16 year old (still in full time mandatory education, living with parents) and 18 year olds (just breaking out on their own for the first time, at university or with a full time job and getting more money than they have ever had before) I wonder if the 'younger = more likel to vote for independence' correlation is going to hold for people under a certain age.

It doesn't seem likely to me.  As a poster upthread pointed out -- leaving the UK means leaving the EU and that means that when you're done with school, it's much tougher to leave home and move to London or Amsterdam or Berlin or Paris.  Why would the youths vote for that?

leaving the UK does not mean leaving the EU necessarily, Scotland could apply for membership once it is independent, and given its oil reserves it probably would be fast tracked into membership.

school leavers from the UK don't have an easy path to work on the continent, and the reverse is true.
the UK is not part of Schengen zone, and you don't have to be EU to be part of Schengen zone as well (Switzerland & Norway, for example).


You seem to be confusing Schengen, which covers free movement across borders, with the EU's right to work, which allows an EU citizens to go and work in any other EU state. The fact you need a passport to leave/enter the UK doesn't otherwise effect rights to work in the EU.

The real problem UK schooleavers have is our (generally) shiatty language skills.
2013-03-12 11:14:47 AM
1 votes:

Smelly McUgly: The idea of the wise voter due to aged maturity has pretty much been disproven.


Disproven by the last two elections here in the U.S.A. .
2013-03-12 10:57:25 AM
1 votes:
Norfolking Chance:

The SNP has spent a decade in the Scottish Parliament saying they want independence and did nothing to bring this vote about. It took a Conservative government to give the Scottish people a vote on their future and not the SNP.

If you mean the Conservative PM was pushed over a barrel and TOLD by the SNP what was going to happen, then yes. He didn't 'give' anyone anything, he was informed. The SNP have been working on independence since the 60's; it's just all came to a head now that they have a majority government and can do something about it.

But you are right, no one party has done more to build support for Scottish Independence than the Tories have in the last year, just not in the way you think.
2013-03-12 10:36:39 AM
1 votes:
I think voting age requirements should be eliminated. If you're a citizen you get to vote no matter the age.
2013-03-12 10:08:39 AM
1 votes:

jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?


Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today. :)

The Irresponsible Captain: If you're old enough to drink and kill a haggis with your bare hands, why not allow them to vote?


You, too.

/HAAAAAAAAGGISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
2013-03-12 10:08:08 AM
1 votes:

Norfolking Chance: magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering.

Yep. Note how this is just for the independence vote and not for any other elections. The SNP needs to be called out on the shiat at every opportunity. Either you lower the voting age the sixteen full stop or you leave it at eighteen.

The SNP has spent a decade in the Scottish Parliament saying they want independence and did nothing to bring this vote about. It took a Conservative government to give the Scottish people a vote on their future and not the SNP.


They don't control the provisions for any other elections, those are reserved matters. In fact lowering the voting age is a long standing policy of not only the SNP but the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party (when it suits them), the Green Party the Scottish Socialists.  The opposition parties even won a vote recently in Westminster to lower the voting age to 16.  The vote was non binding and the Tories are against it so nothing will happen.

Here is a list of supporters of votes for 16 year olds http://www.votesat16.org/about/who-are-we/
2013-03-12 10:03:02 AM
1 votes:
"No-one has a bigger stake in the future of our country than today's young people and it is only right that they are able to have a say in the most important vote to be held in Scotland for three centuries. "

I dread the idea of a 16 year old (and I include myself as a 16 year old) getting a democratic vote. You're still at school, living with your parents, being fed, clothed, probably never travelled on your own, and possibly never had paid employment beyond a paper round.

Personally, I'd make it that you have to have worked for a couple of years to get the vote.
2013-03-12 09:35:45 AM
1 votes:
Bill to lower Scottish voting age to 16, presumably to encourage voting by video game more sober people
2013-03-12 09:35:13 AM
1 votes:

Plumbledum: Nope.

The fact is that the SNP constantly bangs on about independence to win voters or keep them on side. Whether they actually want a 'yes' results is doubtful as the country could not exist outside the UK. Conversations would need to be happening in Whitehall and Brussels for it to happen and these aren't even been considered and the Scottish parliament must know full well that the defense forces in Scotland would all return to England, despite their proclamations of ownership over the RAF and sub bases.

I don't have the figure to hand but Scotland relies on heavy subsidies from the rest of the UK to survive so I would have to imagine that the SNP figures that 16 and 17 years olds are more likely to vote 'no'.

Unless they're completely off their rocker, which is also highly probably..

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x320]


Here's the figure at hand:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254772/English-anger-subsidi e s-Scotland-hits-new-high.html

Scots receive £1,644 more in public spending per capita than English residents.

Does that mean that they couldn't exist as an independent nation?  I mean, Jamaica manages to be independent and they have half the population and 1/5th of the GDP so I'm sure that Scotland could do it.
2013-03-12 09:23:20 AM
1 votes:

Norfolking Chance: magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering.

Yep. Note how this is just for the independence vote and not for any other elections. The SNP needs to be called out on the shiat at every opportunity. Either you lower the voting age the sixteen full stop or you leave it at eighteen.



Um, you realise that the power to change the voting age for other elections is only with the UK Government right?
2013-03-12 09:15:48 AM
1 votes:
I've seen a lot of columnists/commenters saying (or heavily implying) that lowering the voting age is a cynical move on the part of the SNP to get more votes for independence, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that.

Does anyone have any links to opinion polls that show 16/17 year olds are more likely to vote in favour of independence than older people?

I'm just wondering if people are assuming 16 and 17 year olds will vote for independence because in the opinion polls we have seen polling people from 18 and over show that younger people are more likely to vote for independence. Given how different life is for a 16 year old (still in full time mandatory education, living with parents) and 18 year olds (just breaking out on their own for the first time, at university or with a full time job and getting more money than they have ever had before) I wonder if the 'younger = more likel to vote for independence' correlation is going to hold for people under a certain age.
2013-03-12 09:10:32 AM
1 votes:

HMS_Blinkin: JasonOfOrillia: The SNP probably knows how to read polls and figures it increases their chances of winning independence.

That's what I was thinking.  Without being well-informed on the subject, this sounds like somebody's play to support independence.


Yeah, but if Scotland leaves the UK they're out of the EU until they're accepted for readmission.

So the key question for the Scottish youth vote has to be, what effect that will that have on the price of a bottle of Buckfast?


/I feel a bit guilty about that comment.
//Only a bit.
2013-03-12 09:04:25 AM
1 votes:

wedun: DubtodaIll: This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.

are you saying that only white people can do it?


Are there any other type of Scottish person?
2013-03-12 08:42:34 AM
1 votes:
This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.
 
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