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(BBC)   Bill to lower Scottish voting age to 16, presumably to encourage voting by video game   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 92
    More: Asinine, SNP, University of Strathclyde, independence referendum, Scottish Government  
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1212 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2013 at 8:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 08:26:06 AM
"And the top vote getters this election are once again Harry from One Direction, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya, and ARSE."
 
2013-03-12 08:39:38 AM
The SNP probably knows how to read polls and figures it increases their chances of winning independence.
 
2013-03-12 08:41:09 AM
Goddamn Obama. WTF is it with this guy anyway?
 
2013-03-12 08:42:24 AM

JasonOfOrillia: The SNP probably knows how to read polls and figures it increases their chances of winning independence.


That's what I was thinking.  Without being well-informed on the subject, this sounds like somebody's play to support independence.
 
2013-03-12 08:42:34 AM
This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.
 
2013-03-12 08:43:49 AM
Ageist gerrymandering. The SNP know they can leverage young idiots to vote for independence.
 
2013-03-12 08:44:01 AM

DubtodaIll: This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.


are you saying that only white people can do it?
 
2013-03-12 08:47:20 AM

wedun: DubtodaIll: This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.

are you saying that only white people  can shoulddo it?


In this case, yes.
 
2013-03-12 08:49:20 AM
That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?
 
2013-03-12 09:03:27 AM
If it's not Scottish, it's crap!
 
2013-03-12 09:03:55 AM

magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering. The SNP know they can leverage young idiots to vote for independence.


So what?

Right leaning and xenophobic parties have leveraged old idiots to vote for them ever since democracy was invented.

It's about time the playing field was levelled.
 
2013-03-12 09:04:25 AM

wedun: DubtodaIll: This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.

are you saying that only white people can do it?


Are there any other type of Scottish person?
 
2013-03-12 09:06:27 AM

limeyfellow: wedun: DubtodaIll: This kind of thing can work in a small mostly homogeneous society.

are you saying that only white people can do it?

Are there any other type of Scottish person?


I thought they were all pale blue.
 
2013-03-12 09:10:32 AM

HMS_Blinkin: JasonOfOrillia: The SNP probably knows how to read polls and figures it increases their chances of winning independence.

That's what I was thinking.  Without being well-informed on the subject, this sounds like somebody's play to support independence.


Yeah, but if Scotland leaves the UK they're out of the EU until they're accepted for readmission.

So the key question for the Scottish youth vote has to be, what effect that will that have on the price of a bottle of Buckfast?


/I feel a bit guilty about that comment.
//Only a bit.
 
2013-03-12 09:11:45 AM

magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering.


Yep. Note how this is just for the independence vote and not for any other elections. The SNP needs to be called out on the shiat at every opportunity. Either you lower the voting age the sixteen full stop or you leave it at eighteen.

The SNP has spent a decade in the Scottish Parliament saying they want independence and did nothing to bring this vote about. It took a Conservative government to give the Scottish people a vote on their future and not the SNP.
 
2013-03-12 09:15:48 AM
I've seen a lot of columnists/commenters saying (or heavily implying) that lowering the voting age is a cynical move on the part of the SNP to get more votes for independence, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that.

Does anyone have any links to opinion polls that show 16/17 year olds are more likely to vote in favour of independence than older people?

I'm just wondering if people are assuming 16 and 17 year olds will vote for independence because in the opinion polls we have seen polling people from 18 and over show that younger people are more likely to vote for independence. Given how different life is for a 16 year old (still in full time mandatory education, living with parents) and 18 year olds (just breaking out on their own for the first time, at university or with a full time job and getting more money than they have ever had before) I wonder if the 'younger = more likel to vote for independence' correlation is going to hold for people under a certain age.
 
2013-03-12 09:22:53 AM

YourOwnMedicine: I've seen a lot of columnists/commenters saying (or heavily implying) that lowering the voting age is a cynical move on the part of the SNP to get more votes for independence, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that.

Does anyone have any links to opinion polls that show 16/17 year olds are more likely to vote in favour of independence than older people?

I'm just wondering if people are assuming 16 and 17 year olds will vote for independence because in the opinion polls we have seen polling people from 18 and over show that younger people are more likely to vote for independence. Given how different life is for a 16 year old (still in full time mandatory education, living with parents) and 18 year olds (just breaking out on their own for the first time, at university or with a full time job and getting more money than they have ever had before) I wonder if the 'younger = more likel to vote for independence' correlation is going to hold for people under a certain age.


It doesn't seem likely to me.  As a poster upthread pointed out -- leaving the UK means leaving the EU and that means that when you're done with school, it's much tougher to leave home and move to London or Amsterdam or Berlin or Paris.  Why would the youths vote for that?
 
2013-03-12 09:23:20 AM

Norfolking Chance: magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering.

Yep. Note how this is just for the independence vote and not for any other elections. The SNP needs to be called out on the shiat at every opportunity. Either you lower the voting age the sixteen full stop or you leave it at eighteen.



Um, you realise that the power to change the voting age for other elections is only with the UK Government right?
 
2013-03-12 09:27:35 AM
Nope.

The fact is that the SNP constantly bangs on about independence to win voters or keep them on side. Whether they actually want a 'yes' results is doubtful as the country could not exist outside the UK. Conversations would need to be happening in Whitehall and Brussels for it to happen and these aren't even been considered and the Scottish parliament must know full well that the defense forces in Scotland would all return to England, despite their proclamations of ownership over the RAF and sub bases.

I don't have the figure to hand but Scotland relies on heavy subsidies from the rest of the UK to survive so I would have to imagine that the SNP figures that 16 and 17 years olds are more likely to vote 'no'.

Unless they're completely off their rocker, which is also highly probably..

i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2013-03-12 09:28:15 AM
And they said my platform of Dane Cook and free WoW gold would go nowhere....
 
2013-03-12 09:28:40 AM
I would like to see that in the State. If we allow people to vote for an American Idol, why not an American President.
 
2013-03-12 09:35:13 AM

Plumbledum: Nope.

The fact is that the SNP constantly bangs on about independence to win voters or keep them on side. Whether they actually want a 'yes' results is doubtful as the country could not exist outside the UK. Conversations would need to be happening in Whitehall and Brussels for it to happen and these aren't even been considered and the Scottish parliament must know full well that the defense forces in Scotland would all return to England, despite their proclamations of ownership over the RAF and sub bases.

I don't have the figure to hand but Scotland relies on heavy subsidies from the rest of the UK to survive so I would have to imagine that the SNP figures that 16 and 17 years olds are more likely to vote 'no'.

Unless they're completely off their rocker, which is also highly probably..

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x320]


Here's the figure at hand:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254772/English-anger-subsidi e s-Scotland-hits-new-high.html

Scots receive £1,644 more in public spending per capita than English residents.

Does that mean that they couldn't exist as an independent nation?  I mean, Jamaica manages to be independent and they have half the population and 1/5th of the GDP so I'm sure that Scotland could do it.
 
2013-03-12 09:35:45 AM
Bill to lower Scottish voting age to 16, presumably to encourage voting by video game more sober people
 
2013-03-12 09:36:15 AM
Plumbledum:

I don't have the figure to hand but Scotland relies on heavy subsidies from the rest of the UK to survive ...


Doesn't look like it. Seems that Scotland is actually a net contributor to the UK:

"...including a geographical share of UK North Sea oil and gas revenues, Scotland contributes a greater share of public sector revenues than it receives in UK public spending.  The official statistics show Scotland contributed 9.9% of all UK revenues in 2011-12 but received only 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments.  Scotland's population is 8.4 per cent of the UK total.

The figures also show Scotland has significantly lower deficit levels than the UK."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/03/GERScomment6313
 
2013-03-12 09:45:52 AM
Seem like OK chaps.
www.weeatfilms.com
 
2013-03-12 09:48:20 AM

Public Savant: magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering. The SNP know they can leverage young idiots to vote for independence.

So what?

Right leaning and xenophobic parties have leveraged old idiots to vote for them ever since democracy was invented.

It's about time the playing field was levelled.


It just doesn't seem fair that for the biggest vote in....ever for Scotland that the widely accepted UK voting 'norms' are out the window. It reeks of politicking and I, for one, as a Scot would like to see the result of this as beyond reproach - regardless of the outcome. This is no place to experiment with long held standards of voting.
 
2013-03-12 09:53:54 AM
Now if Bill could just convince everyone
 
2013-03-12 09:58:41 AM
Personally I'm happier with Scots voting at 16 than I am with the age that you allow children to drive in the US.
 
2013-03-12 09:59:32 AM
You guys are right, how could Scotland possibly be a country in its own right without the UK?

Who would give us bedroom tax? Who would screw our disabled into the ground? Without the UK military how could we possibly hope to contribute in illegal wars? Our whisky and oil revenues would only make us the sixth richest nation on earth, so yeah, how could we POSSIBLY do it alone!???

Scotland is too wee and too stupid to stand on its own without the good old UK running things. At least that's what we are fed by the 'Scottish Media'. My hope is that this horseshiat gets thrown out the window for the referendum.

Just tune into any BBC channel and see how evil and hopeless the SNP and Independence are - I wonder, could the BBC be shiatting it about having their government sanctioned extortion racket halted by an independent Scotland? Nah, couldn't be, I'm sure they have our best interests at heart!

The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.
 
2013-03-12 09:59:46 AM

jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?


Exactly what I wanted to know! It's probably that Bill Stickers guy.
 
2013-03-12 10:03:02 AM
"No-one has a bigger stake in the future of our country than today's young people and it is only right that they are able to have a say in the most important vote to be held in Scotland for three centuries. "

I dread the idea of a 16 year old (and I include myself as a 16 year old) getting a democratic vote. You're still at school, living with your parents, being fed, clothed, probably never travelled on your own, and possibly never had paid employment beyond a paper round.

Personally, I'd make it that you have to have worked for a couple of years to get the vote.
 
2013-03-12 10:04:40 AM

Turbozutek: The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.


How about taking pity on these in the rest of the UK who do not want to end up under a permanent Tory Government?
 
2013-03-12 10:06:11 AM

jamspoon: Turbozutek: The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.

How about taking pity on these in the rest of the UK who do not want to end up under a permanent Tory Government?


It's a shame, but you are asking the Mum in an abusive relationship to keep the kids at home to spread the beating from the Dad around a bit. Not good mate!
 
2013-03-12 10:06:14 AM

jamspoon: Personally I'm happier with Scots voting at 16 than I am with the age that you allow children to drive in the US.


You do understand that the US has far lower population densities than the UK and most of Europe, right?

Do European 18 year olds have significantly lower traffic problems their first year compared to 16 year olds in most US states?
 
2013-03-12 10:07:10 AM
If you're old enough to drink and kill a haggis with your bare hands, why not allow them to vote?
 
2013-03-12 10:08:08 AM

Norfolking Chance: magic_patch: Ageist gerrymandering.

Yep. Note how this is just for the independence vote and not for any other elections. The SNP needs to be called out on the shiat at every opportunity. Either you lower the voting age the sixteen full stop or you leave it at eighteen.

The SNP has spent a decade in the Scottish Parliament saying they want independence and did nothing to bring this vote about. It took a Conservative government to give the Scottish people a vote on their future and not the SNP.


They don't control the provisions for any other elections, those are reserved matters. In fact lowering the voting age is a long standing policy of not only the SNP but the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party (when it suits them), the Green Party the Scottish Socialists.  The opposition parties even won a vote recently in Westminster to lower the voting age to 16.  The vote was non binding and the Tories are against it so nothing will happen.

Here is a list of supporters of votes for 16 year olds http://www.votesat16.org/about/who-are-we/
 
2013-03-12 10:08:39 AM

jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?


Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today. :)

The Irresponsible Captain: If you're old enough to drink and kill a haggis with your bare hands, why not allow them to vote?


You, too.

/HAAAAAAAAGGISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
 
2013-03-12 10:09:56 AM

jamspoon: Turbozutek: The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.

How about taking pity on these in the rest of the UK who do not want to end up under a permanent Tory Government?


Interestingly, without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1997 (with a majority of 139), in 2001 (majority of 129) and in 2005 (majority of 43).
 
2013-03-12 10:15:17 AM

farkeruk: "No-one has a bigger stake in the future of our country than today's young people and it is only right that they are able to have a say in the most important vote to be held in Scotland for three centuries. "

I dread the idea of a 16 year old (and I include myself as a 16 year old) getting a democratic vote. You're still at school, living with your parents, being fed, clothed, probably never travelled on your own, and possibly never had paid employment beyond a paper round.

Personally, I'd make it that you have to have worked for a couple of years to get the vote.


What if you have left school, are ful time employed, are married, have children.  The age of legal majority in Scotland is 16
 
2013-03-12 10:17:54 AM

jamspoon: Turbozutek: The pro-union argument has a bunch of this crap attached.

How about taking pity on these in the rest of the UK who do not want to end up under a permanent Tory Government?


Democracies don't work that way, although after partition initially the Tories might have an advantage compared to before, their vote will drop down to close to parity and things will return to switching back and forth within a decade at worst, just the nature of politics. At most the political centre in England/Wales/NI will shift slightly to the right so more centrists switch to Labour, but even that won't necessarily happen - implictly the party in power will get blamed for stuff that happens on their watch (rightly or wrongly in any given case), whereas the opposition can make utopian claims of how they would have dealt with it better, so sooner or later the voters get fed up with the party in charge and the opposition gets a turn.
 
2013-03-12 10:21:47 AM
Who is Bill and why does he have this power, subby?
 
2013-03-12 10:22:57 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: If you're old enough to drink and kill a haggis with your bare hands, why not allow them to vote?


You must stalk and trap that haggis before you can kill it. But lowering the voting age means they an just set up voting booths in all the pubs and get almost 100% participation.

/Get the NED vote as well.
 
2013-03-12 10:24:02 AM

jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?

 
2013-03-12 10:24:38 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: If you're old enough to drink and kill a haggis with your bare hands, why not allow them to vote?


I love the Haggis hunt. Those early mornings on the glen, the distant haggis screech in the crisp air, tracking it through the fields of waist-high plaid...truly an experience never to be forgotten.
 
2013-03-12 10:25:18 AM

I Ate Shergar: jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?


Try again...
oddculture.com
 
2013-03-12 10:36:39 AM
I think voting age requirements should be eliminated. If you're a citizen you get to vote no matter the age.
 
2013-03-12 10:56:06 AM
There's a quote in Starship Troopers that goes something like, "I have never understood why a 40-year-old idiot deserved the right to vote more than a 15-year-old genius." I do not necessarily agree with the militarism of the book (the book itself is super-awesome), but this line always made me chuckle.

The idea of the wise voter due to aged maturity has pretty much been disproven. I think that if you are paying taxes, you should be allowed to have a say in how that money is used, even if you are under 18.
 
2013-03-12 10:57:25 AM
Norfolking Chance:

The SNP has spent a decade in the Scottish Parliament saying they want independence and did nothing to bring this vote about. It took a Conservative government to give the Scottish people a vote on their future and not the SNP.

If you mean the Conservative PM was pushed over a barrel and TOLD by the SNP what was going to happen, then yes. He didn't 'give' anyone anything, he was informed. The SNP have been working on independence since the 60's; it's just all came to a head now that they have a majority government and can do something about it.

But you are right, no one party has done more to build support for Scottish Independence than the Tories have in the last year, just not in the way you think.
 
2013-03-12 11:07:07 AM

I Ate Shergar: I Ate Shergar: jaybeezey: That's it!!!!!!

Who the FARK is this Bill guy? How does he wield so much power in so many places!?!?!?

Try again...
[oddculture.com image 480x327]


Bill Stickers is a man's man.

I still have no idea what that really means. "Man's man". But Bill Stickers had it.
 
2013-03-12 11:14:47 AM

Smelly McUgly: The idea of the wise voter due to aged maturity has pretty much been disproven.


Disproven by the last two elections here in the U.S.A. .
 
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