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(Fox News)   Open Source Intelligence reports North Korea may have Chinese and Russian ICBM control electronics, Electro-Magnetic Pulse warheads, and plan a high-altitude burst over the Pacific Ocean. Sleep tight, America   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, EMP, North Koreans, Pacific Oceans, Chinese, open source, intercontinental ballistic missiles, interceptors, Republic of Korea Armed Forces  
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9087 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2013 at 4:37 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-12 03:05:57 PM  

caddisfly: It may be sensationalist and jingoistic, but it did prompt me to buy a few cases of drinking water and canned food.
[peteeyre.com image 329x500]


Now that is a shiat book, written by a child for children.
 
2013-03-12 03:47:31 PM  

KinetiKiteniK: caddisfly: It may be sensationalist and jingoistic, but it did prompt me to buy a few cases of drinking water and canned food.
[peteeyre.com image 329x500]

Now that is a shiat book, written by a child for children.


C'mon, tell how you really feel.
 
2013-03-12 04:09:11 PM  
I know we all like to joke about their military but think about it. These are some hard ass bastards. Their normal state of operations is starvation. You can't starve them out when they are used to it. They are used to working their bodies hard with nothing to recover properly. They have adapted to a hard life that many of our armed service men and women will never understand. SERE training only lasts so long, Ranger training only lasts so long with a chance to recover.

Their only weakness... a stiff breeze can pick them up and deposit them miles away.
 
2013-03-12 04:29:07 PM  

Mentat: dethmagnetic: Ok.

[cbrownley.files.wordpress.com image 300x300]

North Korea is a farking joke. They are to international security what the Jacksonville Jaguars are to the NFL, if the Jags were required to play without a quarterback and to have at least 8 long snappers on the field at all times. The greatest threat to their armed forces is farking  starvation, and that's while they're at  peace.

You go ahead and think that, but when the Red Dawn comes, don't expect me to break you out of the camp.


OK, but you should still "AVENGE MEEEEE!"
 
2013-03-12 04:38:46 PM  

enik: Bontesla: MrBallou: That sounded convincing and quite alarming at first. Then I got to the paragraph that started with "President George W. Bush understood..." and realized WTF I was reading. The next paragraph started with "Unfortunately, President Obama..."

I have a pretty good idea what came after that.

That's all the summary I need.
Thank you for saving me time.

Yeah! Why read when you can just assume? Congrats on perpetuating the image of the low information Obama supporter.


That's funny. It's like saying not eating poison mushrooms means you're anorexic.
 
2013-03-12 05:29:51 PM  

Ed Grubermann: thamike: Yeah, sorry.  I grew up during actual nuclear threats.  Civilization-ending threats.   It's time to update your bogeymen.

Yep. Every city I've ever lived in had at least one Soviet missile pointed at it. If it wasn't a state capital it was next to a military base ot two, or it was an important shipping port.  I  grew up diving under my desk once a month to make sure I knew how to avoid being blown to bits. These modern pants-shiatting cowards make me sick. North Korea is a farking joke


Duck and cover drills!I used to get in trouble in elementary school for questioning the blast wave deterrence capabilities of my math textbook.  "If I use two textbooks and keep my eyes closed, how many megatons are we talking here, realistically speaking?"

/I still haven't see the Red Dawn remake.  The first one was preposterous, but at least it was escapist fun.  I heard the new one is awful.
 
2013-03-12 05:41:08 PM  
fark you for even posting this Fox news bullshiat.
 
2013-03-12 06:03:47 PM  

ransack.: I used to have a sweet 66MHz 486DX2 PB1666CD with 4MB RAM and a 420MB hard drive.


My first computer!
 
2013-03-12 07:29:39 PM  

ransack.: Jon iz teh kewl: Snarfangel: Luckily for us, our ICBMs will still work as designed.

what's that, like an IBM?  or a Packard Bell?

I used to have a sweet 66MHz 486DX2 PB1666CD with 4MB RAM and a 420MB hard drive. I played Duke Nukem 3D from a Zip disk.


i bought a Zip drive for the purpose of playing games like that, but it never really worked out, cause it was too slow.

had to delete a few programs such as Commo.  but i freed up the room ;)
 
2013-03-12 08:01:10 PM  

Xyphoid: You guys really should stop buying into our own propaganda.

I'm not saying they're a modern, disciplined and funded military threat... but they're still an army, an army with the means to do some damage.

Grow up and stop thinking that a conflict with them could be won by a paintballing team.


The North Korea of 2013 is not the North Korea of 1953.  They've gone to shiat since the Cold War ended.

They were propped up by subsidies from China and the USSR.  They don't get much of either.  They had millions die in the '90's during a famine.

They had to recently lower their height/weights standards for their army due to chronic malnutrition, since too many North Koreans were too short and too light for the military. . .so they lowered the standard.

They lack fuel for their vehicles.  Ever seen the wood-gas burning trucks they have over there?  They have wood-burning stoves driving 1950's era trucks.  Yeah, what little fuel they do have is diverted to the military, but that's not enough to fight a war.  They couldn't keep up around-the-clock air superiority operations, air mobility operations, or any other air ops, and any troop transports they'd have along the ground would have similar problems.

They lack spare parts and modernized military equipment.  They are flying the finest Chinese/Soviet hardware of the 1960's and 1970's.  I'd put a single F-15 or F-16 up against 4 or 5 of their fighters easily, simply based on superior radars, superior ECM, and superior missiles, not to mention better maneuverability if it became a dogfight.  If the F-22 enters the battlefield, it becomes a turkey shoot.

The only thing NK has going for them is raw numbers.  On paper they are the 4th largest army in the world.  Don't forget, Iraq was too in 1990, in the lead-in to the Gulf War.  Skeptics then had the same idea of it being a bloodly, drawn out war, but didn't take into account factors like morale, supplies, and the vast technical disparity between the modern US and a communist client state with 1960's and '70's technology.

In the event of a hot shooting war between NK and the rest of the world, the most likely course of events (assuming no nuclear exchange, which is a huge wild card) is:

1. NK opens fire with massive artillery barrage on Seoul.  Seoul takes devastating losses, over 100,000 civilian casualties in the first few minutes.

2. NK begins massive human-wave style assault through the DMZ while the NK air force tries to provide air support.

3. The NK assault runs into massive counterattack.  Poorly trained, chronically malnourished soldiers wither and die before massive counterstrike.  Many NK forces surrender at the first chance.  Supply chain difficulties mean the advance of NK forces is slowed.

4. Air superiority is quickly established by SK and the USA, as the NK air force lasts about as long as the Iraqi one did thanks to a combination of poorly trained pilots, obsolete and poorly maintained equipment, and lack of fuel.  With air superiority established, close-air-support aircraft like the A-10 begin to decimate NK ground forces.

4a. Naval superiority established by US Navy through combination of overwhelming technology, numbers, and firepower.  Most of the NK Navy sits on the bottom of the South China Sea and Sea of Japan within 72 hours of the start of hostilities.

5. NK ground assault stalls less than a hundred miles into SK.  US/SK counterattack includes direct assaults on Pyongyang and other command centers thanks to US air superiority.  Cruise missile and guided weapon attacks decimate the NK command, communications and control structure.  Without unified C3 capability, NK strategically falls apart, and becomes entirely reliant on the tactical and leadership skills of junior officers and NCOs.

6. NK forces on brink of total collapse as allied forces push back.  Brief delay while reinforcements mobilize from US.  NK tries to use this time to regroup, but finds its own C3 elements virtually gone and its supply networks and infrastructure devastated.  A steady pace of advance pushes past the 38th parallel and allied forces take Pyongyang within 7 days.  NK is pushed back to the Yalu river.  Large scale surrenders and defection plagues NK forces.  Total surrender is possible once they are pushed far enough back, especially if Kim Jong Un is dead or captured by this point.

7. China keeps the hell out of it, aside from very strongly worded public statements, as long as US/SK forces don't cross the Yalu.  They don't want to go directly into a shooting war with the US because of the economic damage that would ensue.  Lil' Kim made his bed, and now he's got to deal with it.  The Kim Dynasty falls.  South Korea has the epic and extremely difficult task of integrating NK into its economy and political system.  SK is militarily stable but economically and socially on the brink for at least 20 years rebuilding as a unified Republic of Korea.

7a. US Navy reclaims the USS Pueblo.
 
2013-03-12 10:48:19 PM  

RobertBruce: If they wanted to cripple us with just the EMP they'd use a small nuke in a plane.


First they would need a plane.
 
KIA
2013-03-12 10:54:59 PM  
Hmm... I'll see you and raise you a few:

A) North Korea leads with stealh nuke attacks on Japan and possibly Guam to take out US airstrike capability over Korea.  If the US has a carrier in the region, it becomes top priority and is at high risk of a sub attack or another nuke.

B) Simultaneously, NK pops an EMP either above the West Coast of the US or as close thereto as they can get.  The resulting power outages, fires and supply nightmares cripple multiple states and place millions of lives at risk from California to Alaska and inland to the Rockies.

C) NK fires all 12,000 artillery pieces at SK.  Perhaps 75% actually work, but Seoul is wiped off the map in minutes even if they only use conventional shells.

D) NK begins human wave assault through tunnels and overland which renders most of the SK defenses useless within a very short time.

E) SK and US troops desperately fight for time like they did the first go round, but are pushed back dramatically as their expected air support is absent.

F) Resupply from Pearl or US is greatly delayed and understrength due to unavailabilty of Japanese bases and Guam.  US considers nuclear option as overwhelming numbers push deep into SK.

G) Pakistan makes a move.  Iran makes a move.  China starts eyeing Taiwan and Russia dusts off its plans, whatever those are.

H)  ???
 
2013-03-12 11:18:52 PM  

KIA: Hmm... I'll see you and raise you a few:

A) North Korea leads with stealh nuke attacks on Japan and possibly Guam to take out US airstrike capability over Korea.  If the US has a carrier in the region, it becomes top priority and is at high risk of a sub attack or another nuke.

B) Simultaneously, NK pops an EMP either above the West Coast of the US or as close thereto as they can get.  The resulting power outages, fires and supply nightmares cripple multiple states and place millions of lives at risk from California to Alaska and inland to the Rockies.

C) NK fires all 12,000 artillery pieces at SK.  Perhaps 75% actually work, but Seoul is wiped off the map in minutes even if they only use conventional shells.

D) NK begins human wave assault through tunnels and overland which renders most of the SK defenses useless within a very short time.

E) SK and US troops desperately fight for time like they did the first go round, but are pushed back dramatically as their expected air support is absent.

F) Resupply from Pearl or US is greatly delayed and understrength due to unavailabilty of Japanese bases and Guam.  US considers nuclear option as overwhelming numbers push deep into SK.

G) Pakistan makes a move.  Iran makes a move.  China starts eyeing Taiwan and Russia dusts off its plans, whatever those are.

H)  ???


I think you're beyond "considers" nuclear option by that point.  By this point in the scenario the US military has been assaulted by multiple NUCDETs, and the US mainland was hit with a nuclear weapon.  If SLBM's aren't turning Pyongyang and other major NK targets into self-illuminated glass parking lots, I'd be farking amazed.

Yeah, we might not have air superiority until we can get another carrier in the theater. . .but SLBMs and cruise missiles will do nice work of planting mushrooms all throughout Kim's backyard.  The NK navy can't maintain control of the seas for long, they plain don't have the firepower.  Surprise attack is one thing, the entire farking USN going to town on them is another.

Also, don't discount the North Atlantic Treaty.  A direct military attack on US forces, especially on their home soil or in international waters, would involve bringing NATO in.  It might take a while, but NATO would be bound by treaty to get involved. . .and that means 2 other Nuclear Powers (France and the UK) being dragged along.  NK would definitely be in way over their heads by that point.

Also, you're making BIG assumptions about the ability of NK to launch and accurately target multiple warheads.  Hell, to even possess multiple warheads.  We don't know how many they have.  Your battle plan there just listed 4 NK nuclear strikes: Japan, Guam, a USN Carrier Battlegroup, and the west coast of CONUS.  We don't know if they even have 4 operational warheads, much less an ability to accurately deliver them to those targets.  Yeah, what you described would be a worst case scenario, which would warrant our worst-case reply.

Also, even without US air superiority, you run into NKs chronic supply-line problem.  Remember, an army marches on its stomach, and they don't exactly have a lot of food, or fuel.  This gets 10x worse if a nuclear counterstrike from boomers in the Sea of Japan have erased most NK strategic targets so their own fuel tanks are smoldering debris fields.

As for Pakistan or Iran making a move, or China going for Taiwan, those are too many variables to accurately predict, but admittedly the US having to focus entirely on Korea would give any of those states a chance to do whatever it wanted with limited US interference.
 
2013-03-13 06:55:22 AM  
We've gone from North Korea having a gun-type nuke to their possessing nuclear capabilities the U.S. doesn't have. This is the kind of military analysis we used to do in high school.
 
2013-03-13 08:22:13 AM  

washington-babylon: Of course, saying they have "Electro-Magnetic Pulse warheads" to go with the nukes is proof they don't have the slightest clue what the fark they are talking about. Those so-called "Electromagnetic pulse warheads" are technically any nuclear warhead in the 25 kiloton range, small enough to be a "Tactical" nuke but still able to generate a sizable pulse. From the sounds of it, you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about.

So of course Fox publishes it as news.
What this boils down to is your rather blind hatred for a specific news outlet. Just because some desk jockey at Fox found this out and and turned it into a story doesn't mean that it's not newsworthy.


The strongest weapon that North Korea has claimed to have detonated was an underground detonation of between 4kT to 7kT in power, and even that has been questioned due to the nuclear satelite monitoring systems that both the US and Russia have in orbit. For comparison, the Trinity Shot using an Ullam-Teller device was 20kT, and Fat Man was 21kT.

So yes. It's FUD.
 
KIA
2013-03-13 10:50:17 AM  

Silverstaff: SLBMs and cruise missiles will do nice work of planting mushrooms all throughout Kim's backyard.


We're not going to be able to launch anything in the direction of China and Russia.  Certainly not across their territory either, so polar launches are right out.  It would have to be a naval launch or B-52s from Alaska. Even those risk major involvement from Russia and China.

Silverstaff: the US mainland was hit with a nuclear weapon


Technically, no.  An offshore airburst, whether EMP enhanced or not, would not be an actual strike on American soil.  It would be a distinction without a difference to be sure, however some kind of BS argument would be made by NK and their patrons that it does not justify nuclear retaliation.

Silverstaff: Also, you're making BIG assumptions about the ability of NK to launch and accurately target multiple warheads.


Pinpoint accuracy will not be needed for any of these operations.

All highly theoretical, I admit, but how many times does the US need to get caught by surprise before we learn not to underestimate a determined foe?
 
2013-03-13 07:38:33 PM  
ICBM

amd-icbm.com
 
2013-03-13 07:53:04 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: y interesting tidbit from that article was a Big Lebowski game they were developing over there


The Un abides.
 
2013-03-13 10:55:01 PM  

KIA: Silverstaff: SLBMs and cruise missiles will do nice work of planting mushrooms all throughout Kim's backyard.

We're not going to be able to launch anything in the direction of China and Russia.  Certainly not across their territory either, so polar launches are right out.  It would have to be a naval launch or B-52s from Alaska. Even those risk major involvement from Russia and China.

Silverstaff: the US mainland was hit with a nuclear weapon

Technically, no.  An offshore airburst, whether EMP enhanced or not, would not be an actual strike on American soil.  It would be a distinction without a difference to be sure, however some kind of BS argument would be made by NK and their patrons that it does not justify nuclear retaliation.

Silverstaff: Also, you're making BIG assumptions about the ability of NK to launch and accurately target multiple warheads.

Pinpoint accuracy will not be needed for any of these operations.

All highly theoretical, I admit, but how many times does the US need to get caught by surprise before we learn not to underestimate a determined foe?


First, I'm sure we'd have a conversation with Russia and China and they'd greenlight it because they want the right to nuke people who did that to them. Second, B-2s are nuclear-capable, and they're not really in danger from Russia or China. Third, you're right - it's a distinction without a difference and China and Russia are not about to make that argument should someone decide to do that to them. They like useful precedents. Fourth, NK not only doesn't have pinpoint accuracy, they don't have the accuracy to do anything remotely like the suggested scenario.

Finally, underestimating a determined foe results in Custer being slaughtered at Little Big Horn - but not in the Sioux attacking him armed with semiautomatic weapons, which is the equivalent of what's being proposed for NK.
 
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