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(Yahoo)   Man's reaction to being arrested inside his own building for "loitering" by the NYPD sums up why keeping your civil rights is so hard: "I don't want to be stopped," he said. "But I also don't {it} to happen to my family"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 123
    More: Sad, New York Police Department, civil rights, New York Civil Liberties Union, Michael Bloomberg, State of the City  
•       •       •

21280 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2013 at 3:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-11 04:23:56 PM  

timujin: The actual quote would have made it 234 characters.


But this isn't twitter, where every submission gets seen as long as it is under the character limit. I think Fark mods are more likely to green succinct headlines. And not to care about things like grammar, spelling, or logic.
 
2013-03-11 04:24:03 PM  
TheGreatGazoo: The main noisy person nearby just moved away so the loudest things that I hear in the morning are some woodpeckers.

So Fred Flintstone moved with his "Yabba dabba dooooo" shiat and the only dum-dums you have to deal with is the woodpecker that goes "ha ha ha HA ha" every morning?
 
2013-03-11 04:24:16 PM  
Due to poor life decisions (either made by myself or my parents, depending on my age) - I've always lived in crappy parts of town.  Some places worse than others; none so bad as the 'inner-city'...but I can say with 100% confidence, the worst part of being poor is.....dealing with trashy poor people.

I live in a ~450 sq. ft. apartment in a crappy part of town.  I don't mind the size, and I don't mind that the dryer doesn't work and I have to hang my clothes to dry, or that I don't have a thermostat, or that my shower doesn't work or that water leaks onto the patio from above.

No, the only problem I have with being poor is dealing with trashy poor people.  Neighbors who use the outside of my wall as a basketball court, neighbors who play music until 2am because, apparently, they don't work.  I can't leave my bicycle (I don't own a car, so my bicycle is pretty important to my livelihood) outside because the trashy people that I live near will steal it.  I have to pre-plan deliveries and take personal time off work because if I don't, it will be stolen from my doorstep before I get home.

I'm willing to accept there are economic factors that make the accumulation of wealth unfair towards those who don't already have some....but the things that *really* SUCK about being poor are almost completely self-inflicted.

And this guy is dealing with it.  It sucks that police see him standing outside a building and harass him.  But, the community is better-off for it.  Poor people standing around doing nothing are just waiting to be poor people doing something wrong.  It's why I can't leave anything of value outside and why anything that doesn't move has been 'tagged' with spray paint.

Basically your choice is between being harassed by the police or being harassed by the poor guys standing around with nothing to do (the ones committing the crimes that make this guy conflicted over being stopped by the police.
 
2013-03-11 04:24:23 PM  
I'm an internet lawyer:  Excluding cooperatives and condominiums, the building owner owns the hallways, hence they are the private property of the owner.  The rights you have on a public street are different than on private property.
 
2013-03-11 04:24:36 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: "We don't feel safe, but it's because of the police,"

This is becoming the norm.


A couple of weeks ago, my car broke down, and I had to sit on the side of Rt 1, in PA, for 45 minutes waiting for the tow truck.  For anyone that's ever been down that road, you'd know how scary that is.  Traffic whizzes by at like 80mph!

The one thing that amazed me was that for all that time, I didn't see one cop.  Not one.  I would really have liked to have a cop there with lights to draw attenton to my car.

When I mentioned this to the driver, he shrugged and said, "That's the way it is with the cops.  They are like Nanny McFee.  When you need them they aren't around.  And when you don't want them, there they are."

Nice analogy...
 
2013-03-11 04:25:25 PM  

Spade: Is "loitering" NYPD code for "black guy standing around not doing anything otherwise illegal"?


Depends. How high is he wearing his pants?
Up to his armpits? He probably lives here and pays rent.
Just over his navel? He probably lives here and pays rent.
Down around his waist? He probably lives here and pays rent.
Hanging off his ass? Probably needs a beat down for something. Starting with wearing his pants hanging off his ass. At least hit him until he drops his skittles.
 
2013-03-11 04:27:11 PM  

Stephen_Falken: Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police


And Europe isn't a police state?

gracie18515.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-11 04:28:27 PM  

KarmicDisaster: It's a metaphor! They speak in metaphors!


They must be like the girl who was hurt in the darkness and ate what was given to her.
 
2013-03-11 04:29:10 PM  
A private owner has every right to allow the police to enter the common areas of their property,  There doesn't need to be any special program in place.

Why would a property owner do this?

1)  It keeps trouble out of the hallways.
2)  If the police do need to enter the building, they use a key instead of a foot.
3)  It costs the building owner $1  (to make a copy of the hallway key)

 It isn't a civil rights violation in they are INVITED by the property owner.
 
2013-03-11 04:29:19 PM  
"I don't want to be stopped," he said. "But I also don't want something bad to happen to my family. It's not easy to say what the right answer is. ... It's not a perfect world."
Wisdom beyond his years right there.
 
2013-03-11 04:30:01 PM  

Spade: Is "loitering" NYPD code for "black guy standing around not doing anything otherwise illegal"?


It's anybody Bloomberg doesn't like.  The mans is the text book definition of nanny-state
 
2013-03-11 04:30:37 PM  
Man's reaction to being arrested inside his own building for "loitering" by the NYPD

Umm.. Man's reaction to being arrested outside his mother's apartment for "loitering" by the NYPD
 
2013-03-11 04:30:46 PM  
When I see how the police are able to act in a nation such as ours, it makes me realize the terror of living somewhere where there are no checks and balances to their behavior.
 
2013-03-11 04:32:31 PM  

KWillets: "if she hadn't come downstairs to identify him he would've been arrested on a trespassing charge."

So:

not arrested
not loitering

Anything else you'd care to share with us, subby?


According to the SCOTUS, the moment you are detained by police, and no longer able to freely leave on your own volition, an "arrest" has been made, no matter how  briefly,  this is why even "Terry Stops" aka "brief investigative detentions" require some objective reason and suspicion that you are engaged in wrongdoing.  Under Bloomberg, the NYPD has even abandonded this unbelievably basic level of probable cause and just begun blanket "stop and frisks" of random people in high crime neighborhoods.  The fact that this has only caused outrage from the ACLU and other "usual susoects" rather than mass protests and riots, or even the same level of press criticism that has attended his "soda ban" is a sad example fo how far this country, and NYC in particular, has fallen since 9/11
 
2013-03-11 04:34:50 PM  

wgb423: A private owner has every right to allow the police to enter the common areas of their property,  There doesn't need to be any special program in place.

Why would a property owner do this?

1)  It keeps trouble out of the hallways.
2)  If the police do need to enter the building, they use a key instead of a foot.
3)  It costs the building owner $1  (to make a copy of the hallway key)

 It isn't a civil rights violation in they are INVITED by the property owner.


Property owners aren;t the only ones with civil rights, particularly 4th Amendment ones, nor can the cops, absent the owner's specific participation in every case, on their own dtermine who is a tresspasser and who is an invitee
 
2013-03-11 04:36:27 PM  

I Love Happy Stuff: Stephen_Falken: Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police

And Europe isn't a police state?

[gracie18515.files.wordpress.com image 400x227]


Europe is a continent.
 
2013-03-11 04:37:21 PM  

Krieghund: timujin: The actual quote would have made it 234 characters.

But this isn't twitter, where every submission gets seen as long as it is under the character limit. I think Fark mods are more likely to green succinct headlines. And not to care about things like grammar, spelling, or logic.


Yes, because cutting out the two words that would make the headline make sense was the big difference between getting a green or not.

I'm not sure why you or Magorn are trying to defend the headline, it was a dumb decision by subby and I was just stating so.  I only pointed out that it was under the 250 character limit because Magorn brought it up.  Hell, I'm not sure why my OC got a response in the first place.
 
2013-03-11 04:38:22 PM  
But others say they can't go home without being menaced. In August 2011, Ligon sent her teenage son to the corner store get ketchup for the fries she was making for dinner. He didn't return.

Eventually, a police officer rang her doorbell and told her over the intercom to come down and identify her boy.



Wow, AP. I wonder what race her "boy" is.

Seriously, never have seen anything other than "son" used in this context. Maybe if he were 5 years old, but they're referring to a teenager. Reminds me of the captions from Katrina where black people "loot" and white people "find"
 
2013-03-11 04:41:28 PM  

Christian Bale: But others say they can't go home without being menaced. In August 2011, Ligon sent her teenage son to the corner store get ketchup for the fries she was making for dinner. He didn't return.

Eventually, a police officer rang her doorbell and told her over the intercom to come down and identify her boy.


Wow, AP. I wonder what race her "boy" is.

Seriously, never have seen anything other than "son" used in this context. Maybe if he were 5 years old, but they're referring to a teenager. Reminds me of the captions from Katrina where black people "loot" and white people "find"


perhaps that was the language the police used?
 
2013-03-11 04:42:05 PM  

Stephen_Falken: [i131.photobucket.com image 200x309]

Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police


Yeah because if there are two bastions of Republican power, they're California and New York.

It's idiots like you that are making things worse because you really believe that Democrats don't want it the same way. You'll notice all those things you cried about during the Bush years actually got worse under Obama if you open you eyes.

/both sides are bad so vote third party
//or buy a bunker and be ready
 
2013-03-11 04:44:27 PM  
Glancing Blow
I'm an internet lawyer


Can you post your GED in internet law?
 
2013-03-11 04:46:01 PM  
He should be happy he wasn't beaten (Graphic Image)
 
2013-03-11 04:47:09 PM  
loitering present participle of loi·ter (Verb)VerbStand or wait around idly or without apparent purpose. ****************

First four words of the article: "  Jay Victorino was standing outside  "

So....

SOUNDS LIKE LOITERING TO ME!!!
 
2013-03-11 04:47:26 PM  

timujin: I'm not sure why you or Magorn are trying to defend the headline, it was a dumb decision by subby and I was just stating so. I only pointed out that it was under the 250 character limit because Magorn brought it up. Hell, I'm not sure why my OC got a response in the first place.


I can't really speak for Magorn or yourself, but I assumed this whole conversation was born out of mid-Monday tedium.
 
2013-03-11 04:50:20 PM  

Christian Bale: Reminds me of the captions from Katrina where black people "loot" and white people "find"


Your post reminds me that people still think the same news organization wrote both captions. Also that some people apparently believe their regional dialect is the only correct dialect to use.
 
2013-03-11 04:51:57 PM  

Stephen_Falken: [i131.photobucket.com image 200x309]

Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police


I can't tell you about all of Europe - but I can say I spent the first 26 years of my life in the US and then moved to Ireland.  There are very few meaningful differences, despite everyone (on both sides) wanting to pretend otherwise.

European governments will trample over your rights just as fast as the US government.  In some cases, even faster.

The biggest difference that impacts my day-to-day life is the amount of tax I pay.  My experience with the police/local governments are pretty much identical.
 
2013-03-11 04:52:26 PM  

LordJiro: You're right. In this case, it's not Republicanism that's the problem...it's pure authoritarianism.


 Authoritarianism knows no political boundaries.  Both sides will use it to further their own goals, and this petty bickering between the parties actually helps them by taking the focus away from what they are doing.
 
2013-03-11 04:52:43 PM  
ftfa: Jay Victorino was standing outside his mother's apartment when he was grabbed by police, and he says if she hadn't come downstairs to identify him he would've been arrested on a trespassing charge.


It wasn't his building, it was the building where his mother had an apt.
And is it normal for grown-up men to hang around in the downstairs areas of apt buildings?
 
2013-03-11 04:55:23 PM  

vudukungfu: , Ligon sent her teenage son to the corner store get ketchup for the fries she was making for dinner. He didn't return.

Either get Heinz, or don't come home son.

Don`t forget the skittles.

FTFY
 
2013-03-11 04:55:31 PM  

Krieghund: timujin: I'm not sure why you or Magorn are trying to defend the headline, it was a dumb decision by subby and I was just stating so. I only pointed out that it was under the 250 character limit because Magorn brought it up. Hell, I'm not sure why my OC got a response in the first place.

I can't really speak for Magorn or yourself, but I assumed this whole conversation was born out of mid-Monday tedium.


It is a slow day.  I've beaten all of my customers into submission, so I have nothing better to do right now.
 
2013-03-11 04:59:43 PM  

Magorn: KWillets: "if she hadn't come downstairs to identify him he would've been arrested on a trespassing charge."

So:

not arrested
not loitering

Anything else you'd care to share with us, subby?

According to the SCOTUS, the moment you are detained by police, and no longer able to freely leave on your own volition, an "arrest" has been made, no matter how  briefly,  this is why even "Terry Stops" aka "brief investigative detentions" require some objective reason and suspicion that you are engaged in wrongdoing.  Under Bloomberg, the NYPD has even abandonded this unbelievably basic level of probable cause and just begun blanket "stop and frisks" of random people in high crime neighborhoods.  The fact that this has only caused outrage from the ACLU and other "usual susoects" rather than mass protests and riots, or even the same level of press criticism that has attended his "soda ban" is a sad example fo how far this country, and NYC in particular, has fallen since 9/11


You know you make a good point. It`s a real shame that the program works so well. Maybe that`s why everyone who isn`t a criminal doesn`t make a fuss?
 
2013-03-11 05:00:59 PM  

SploogeTime: Glancing Blow
I'm an internet lawyer

Can you post your GED in internet law?



img46.imageshack.us
 
2013-03-11 05:04:40 PM  

dready zim: Magorn: KWillets: "if she hadn't come downstairs to identify him he would've been arrested on a trespassing charge."

So:

not arrested
not loitering

Anything else you'd care to share with us, subby?

According to the SCOTUS, the moment you are detained by police, and no longer able to freely leave on your own volition, an "arrest" has been made, no matter how  briefly,  this is why even "Terry Stops" aka "brief investigative detentions" require some objective reason and suspicion that you are engaged in wrongdoing.  Under Bloomberg, the NYPD has even abandonded this unbelievably basic level of probable cause and just begun blanket "stop and frisks" of random people in high crime neighborhoods.  The fact that this has only caused outrage from the ACLU and other "usual susoects" rather than mass protests and riots, or even the same level of press criticism that has attended his "soda ban" is a sad example fo how far this country, and NYC in particular, has fallen since 9/11

You know you make a good point. It`s a real shame that the program works so well. Maybe that`s why everyone who isn`t a criminal doesn`t make a fuss?


Yeah, what a surprise, police states are more effective at stopping crime.
 
2013-03-11 05:04:48 PM  
neversubmit: He should be happy he wasn't beaten (Graphic Image)
First I was going to say how ridiculous the idiots in that video are, and how TYT is a big piece of shiat...
But then I started reading the captions that some genius hard embedded into the video and was laughing too hard to continue...
Actually said: "after they stopped beating him, one of the cops said QUOTE, where is that warrant now you F**king n**ger"
Captioned: "the actor i baked stopped beating him, one of the cops said QUOTE, whereas that warrant now you F**king maker"
Actually said: "so now look, this is why people go ahead and tell the cops to search for whatever you want..."
Captioned: "so now but this is why people go ahead and tell the cops torrentsearch whatever you want..."
and my PERSONAL FAVORITE!!!
Actually said: "Now whats the final situation with the three cops who did the beating"
Captioned: "now look but whats the final situation of the three cops who beat are excellent"
 
2013-03-11 05:06:18 PM  
Help Police,Help Police,Help Police, Help it's the Police
 
2013-03-11 05:08:46 PM  

Stephen_Falken: [i131.photobucket.com image 200x309]

Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police


While I dislike Cheney, Operation Clean Halls was created by Mayor David Dinkins' administration in 1991. You can't even blame Bloomberg for the program, let alone Cheney.
 
2013-03-11 05:11:40 PM  

Glancing Blow: When I see how the police are able to act in a nation such as ours, it makes me realize the terror of living somewhere where there are no checks and balances to their behavior.



I hate to break it to you, but there are effectively very few - if any - actual checks and balances on police behavior now. A trend which began with the "war on drugs" and kicked in to overdrive with the "war on terror". Police can beat you, shoot you - whatever they want - and chances are greater than naught that they will skate away scott-free.
 
2013-03-11 05:12:38 PM  

KarmicDisaster: It's a metaphor! They speak in metaphors!


You know what Jack says about that.
 
2013-03-11 05:14:18 PM  

StaleCoffee: Yeah, what a surprise, police states are more effective at stopping crime reporting.


You left a word off there.
 
2013-03-11 05:14:37 PM  
Last year, New York police stopped 533,042 people, more than five times the number in 2002. Fifty-five percent of those stopped were black, 32 percent were Hispanic and 10 percent were white. According to U.S. Census figures, there are 8.2 million people in the city: 26 percent are black, 28 percent are Hispanic and 44 percent are white.

Well, there's your problem.
 
2013-03-11 05:19:36 PM  

draypresct: StaleCoffee: Yeah, what a surprise, police states are more effective at stopping crime reporting.

You left a word off there.


No, police states really are more effective at stopping crime. Some people are willing to give up personal rights for that. Some people don't realize what they're doing, and some people don't care.

It's not surprising that constantly patrolling and arresting anyone on the streets after 9 PM means there are no criminals on the streets after 9 PM.
 
2013-03-11 05:26:43 PM  
vudukungfu:  , Ligon sent her teenage son to the corner store get ketchup for the fries she was making for dinner. He didn't return.
Either get Heinz, or don't come home son.


FTA
Eventually, a police officer rang her doorbell and told her over the intercom to come down and identify her boy.  "I thought he was dead," she said. "I ran down the stairs, and when I saw him there, I just collapsed."
Ligon said her son later was arrested on a trespassing charge but the charge was dropped.


Okay since his mother did come and ID him proving he had a legit reason for being there, why was he still arrested?
 
2013-03-11 05:30:34 PM  

Gordon Bennett: I Love Happy Stuff: Stephen_Falken: Well now. It's about time the rest of you slackers got a taste of the police state that California has already become. Welcome to your future, you earned it by allowing that piece of sh*t Cheney to steal the elections and shove America so far right that it may never recover its balance. Screw you guys, I'm going to Europe once I finish my degree.

/fuX0r the police

And Europe isn't a police state?

[gracie18515.files.wordpress.com image 400x227]

Europe is a continent.


Somebody alert Drew Carey.
 
2013-03-11 05:41:25 PM  
GlancingBlow, thank you sir. I'll photoshop and use it as I see fit. Excellent!

now I have the same degree as george bush, but this one is more real!
 
2013-03-11 05:46:55 PM  

Spade: Is "loitering" NYPD code for "black guy standing around not doing anything otherwise illegal"?


FTA: "...and 10% White.."

so I'd say yeah, black guys #1, hispanic fellows #2.
 
2013-03-11 05:49:00 PM  
So, the police detain him for loitering at building he doesn't live in. They question him and contact his mom who verifies that he has a legitimate reason to be there and they release him.

Hate to say it, but it sounds like the program worked exactly as it's supposed to. Don't like it? Buy yourself a house where you can do as you please.

/And have some brioche while you're at it.
 
2013-03-11 05:53:29 PM  
Yay, another reason never to go to New York. Between this and the 'Stop and Frisk' program, seems like the cops just get to throw the rules out of the window without even having to hide it.
 
xcv
2013-03-11 06:00:03 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Last year, New York police stopped 533,042 people, more than five times the number in 2002. Fifty-five percent of those stopped were black, 32 percent were Hispanic and 10 percent were white. According to U.S. Census figures, there are 8.2 million people in the city: 26 percent are black, 28 percent are Hispanic and 44 percent are white.

Well, there's your problem.

 "Statistics show that 96% of shooting victims, 89% of murder victims and 81% of felony victims are part of a minority group (either black of hispanic). 97% of all those pulling the trigger, 86% of murder suspects, and 88% of felony suspects are also part of that minority group."  http://www.blackenterprise.com/news/shooting-victims-black-hispanic-n y c-96-percent/


If Stop and Frisk was really just about getting guns off the streets it's in proportion with the gun homicide rates. NYC is far safer for minorities than other major American cities like Chicago or Atlanta that have homicide rates ~3x as high. Yet, NYC was wrong in permitting the Stop and Frisk program to make arrests for anything other than guns, particularly drug offenses and bench warrants.
 
2013-03-11 06:06:28 PM  
It wouldn't be fark without the headlines that read like the incoherent rantings of the criminally insane. Subby, where can I get a copy of your thousand-page manifesto?
 
2013-03-11 06:09:02 PM  

Spade: Is "loitering" NYPD code for "black guy standing around not doing anything otherwise illegal"?


He probably had a 32 oz. soda dipped in trans fat.
 
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