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(NJ.com)   High-school teacher: All we need is some political will from the powers that be to stop the demonizing of America's teachers   ( nj.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, school sports, instant gratification, computational complexity theory, gang warfare, social injustice, charter schools, high schools, teachers  
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2459 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Mar 2013 at 1:27 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-11 12:31:24 PM  
How about some actually hot teachers that bang their students instead of the paper bag over their head league, not to mention the double baggers.
 
2013-03-11 12:37:15 PM  
We aren't demonizing teachers. We just said they need more exorcise.
 
2013-03-11 12:39:32 PM  
FTA:  These factors include: the home life of children; the social dislocations of our time; America's Gospel of Instant Gratification; commercial TV; school sports; the restlessness of American society and its ingrained anti-intellectualism and ambivalence toward knowledge; youth's distrust of the adult world and the school; youth culture and its rejection of tradition; the Millennial Generation and its outlook on life; technology's negative impact on learning; Facebook; the eclipse of reading, and our youth's literal-mindedness, lack of intellectual curiosity, inability to ask significant questions and disinclination to cultivate a critical mind. These are far more relevant factors that affect student learning, and an article could be written on each of them.

Many of these words are confusing, most contain far too many letters and the entire article is much longer than the average American will read.  Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?
 
2013-03-11 12:42:17 PM  

Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?


Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.
 
2013-03-11 12:42:25 PM  

Ennuipoet: FTA:  These factors include: the home life of children; the social dislocations of our time; America's Gospel of Instant Gratification; commercial TV; school sports; the restlessness of American society and its ingrained anti-intellectualism and ambivalence toward knowledge; youth's distrust of the adult world and the school; youth culture and its rejection of tradition; the Millennial Generation and its outlook on life; technology's negative impact on learning; Facebook; the eclipse of reading, and our youth's literal-mindedness, lack of intellectual curiosity, inability to ask significant questions and disinclination to cultivate a critical mind. These are far more relevant factors that affect student learning, and an article could be written on each of them.

Many of these words are confusing, most contain far too many letters and the entire article is much longer than the average American will read.  Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?


It ain't our fault your kids is farked up. They is farked up because you is farked up
 
2013-03-11 12:49:43 PM  
They are society's greatest monsters.  Even worse than cops and firefighters.  Greedy bastards.
 
2013-03-11 12:57:18 PM  
i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.
 
2013-03-11 01:17:02 PM  

Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.


I'm pretty sure they don't.
 
2013-03-11 01:22:54 PM  

EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.


All teachers are excellent. Except that one in New Jersey. Teachers will accept any rating scale the public proposes, as long as the scale reflects this fact. What teachers won't accept is an unfair scale, which includes ratings like "good" or "average".
 
2013-03-11 01:28:48 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-11 01:31:00 PM  
Obviously the solution it to give them guns.
 
2013-03-11 01:31:41 PM  
Like I'm going to listen to what some union THUG has to say. Go back to your mansion that's paid with MY TAX DOLLARS!
 
2013-03-11 01:32:12 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.

All teachers are excellent. Except that one in New Jersey. Teachers will accept any rating scale the public proposes, as long as the scale reflects this fact. What teachers won't accept is an unfair scale, which includes ratings like "good" or "average".


Teachers' unions work for the benefit of the teachers, which is not synonymous with the benefit of the pupils.
 
2013-03-11 01:33:29 PM  

pudding7: Obviously the solution it to give them guns.


Like South Crapkota. They shiat on teachers in this dump 24/7 but once the idiots in Pierre get some stupid idea in their heads about "MAH GUNZ" they roll with it, consequences be damned. This state has some of the lowest rated public schools in the nation, and it shows. I know a guy who got a West Point appointment and told me they sent him into the remedial courses because he was from South Dakota.

I need to get the hell out of here, for no other reason than that my kid needs a good education.
 
2013-03-11 01:33:44 PM  

pudding7: Obviously the solution it to give them guns.


This has some interesting possibilities.  Suppose superior teachers get more bullets?  Longer barrel?  Automatic vs revolver?  Poor teachers get flintlocks.  Students would behave better....
 
2013-03-11 01:33:54 PM  

pudding7: Obviously the solution it to give them guns.


That's one of the many things that baffles me about the Republicans. "Teachers are useless wastes of humanity who should be glad they're paid at all! Let's arm them!"
 
2013-03-11 01:34:10 PM  
Exactly! If there is one thing teachers need its more coddling.
 
2013-03-11 01:34:25 PM  

EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.


There's also "Corporate  CEO". See Fiorina, Carly
 
2013-03-11 01:34:28 PM  
Capitalism to the rescue:

If you want to attract the best possible candidates, the only way to be sure is to pay them astronomically high salaries!

It worked for CEOs.

/only half-joking.
//actually, not joking at all - offer $500,000/year to all teachers starting 4 years from now and see how fast some of the best & brightest graduates suddenly have an interest in the teaching profession.
 
2013-03-11 01:35:11 PM  
Or teachers should start standing their grounds with their new guns.
 
2013-03-11 01:36:11 PM  

EatHam: Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.


Except for test results, but who wants to judge teachers by how much their students learn?
 
2013-03-11 01:38:17 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: rumpelstiltskin: EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.

All teachers are excellent. Except that one in New Jersey. Teachers will accept any rating scale the public proposes, as long as the scale reflects this fact. What teachers won't accept is an unfair scale, which includes ratings like "good" or "average".

Teachers' unions work for the benefit of the teachers, which is not synonymous with the benefit of the pupils.


School districts work for the benefit of their own bureaucracy, which is not synonymous with the benefit of either teachers or pupils.

Parents work for their meager paychecks, which leaves them little time to worry about the benefit of their school-age children.
 
2013-03-11 01:38:19 PM  

CokeBear: /actually, not joking at all - offer $500,000/year to all teachers starting 4 years from now and see how fast some of the best & brightest graduates suddenly have an interest in the teaching profession


Good students do not equal good teachers.  But combine that with a decent rating system that doesn't encourage just teaching to the test, and you may have something.
 
2013-03-11 01:38:43 PM  
Ah, America. Where teachers are greedy leeches and soldiers are heros defending our freedumbz from nonexistant WMDs. What a country.
 
2013-03-11 01:39:16 PM  

DarwiOdrade: Parents work for their meager paychecks, which leaves them little time to worry about the benefit of their school-age children.


Actually, I work for my kids, as raising them is my first job as a parent.  The paycheck is a means to an end.
 
2013-03-11 01:39:41 PM  
Stop being worthy of demonization.
 
2013-03-11 01:39:41 PM  
So let's demonize charter schools instead!
 
2013-03-11 01:40:05 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: DarwiOdrade: Parents work for their meager paychecks, which leaves them little time to worry about the benefit of their school-age children.

Actually, I work for my kids, as raising them is my first job as a parent.  The paycheck is a means to an end.


That's great. I believe you're the exception, not the rule, unfortunately.
 
2013-03-11 01:40:11 PM  

EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.


Well... teachers and any other union job, that is.
 
2013-03-11 01:40:46 PM  

Ned Stark: Stop being worthy of demonization.


Simulpost! I win a dire wolf!
 
2013-03-11 01:41:59 PM  

LordJiro: pudding7: Obviously the solution it to give them guns.

That's one of the many things that baffles me about the Republicans. "Teachers are useless wastes of humanity who should be glad they're paid at all! Let's arm them!"


Well, it's basically the same attitude they have towards (individual) cops...and soldiers, isn't it?
 
2013-03-11 01:43:35 PM  
"...we'll be waiting for Godot."

I love that the article closes with something that most graduates of public schools won't understand. Way to illustrate the point.

/seriously, I think that's awesome
 
2013-03-11 01:44:03 PM  
www.earthhouse.com

Obligatory.

And anyone who makes the insensitive quip that "Teaching is a noble profession" owes me 20 bucks.
 
2013-03-11 01:44:24 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: CokeBear: /actually, not joking at all - offer $500,000/year to all teachers starting 4 years from now and see how fast some of the best & brightest graduates suddenly have an interest in the teaching profession

Good students do not equal good teachers.  But combine that with a decent rating system that doesn't encourage just teaching to the test, and you may have something.


Maybe we should dumping everyone of the same age into the same classrooms regardless of ability - it's hard to teach a class of students working at different levels in every subject. My SO is a 5th grade teacher who has students at levels from 1st grade up to G&T - do you have any idea how hard it is to keep everyone engaged simultaneously? Not to mention the overwhelming reporting and paperwork required of teachers today.
 
2013-03-11 01:44:37 PM  

Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.


unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.


I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.
 
2013-03-11 01:44:52 PM  

CokeBear: Capitalism to the rescue:

If you want to attract the best possible candidates, the only way to be sure is to pay them astronomically high salaries!

It worked for CEOs.

/only half-joking.
//actually, not joking at all - offer $500,000/year to all teachers starting 4 years from now and see how fast some of the best & brightest graduates suddenly have an interest in the teaching profession.


I've always thought that teachers should be given an income tax exemption after so many years of tenure provided that there is a reasonable system to weed out substandard teachers.  It wouldn't be a millionaire's salary but it would demonstrate society's gratitude.
 
2013-03-11 01:44:53 PM  
The basic problem with education is that we've bought into the myth that all students are college bound.  They aren't.  At the same time we've gutted all vocational education, because perish the thought the kids leave school with anything resembling useful skills.  In essence you have a dumbing down of the entire curriculum to teach to the lowest common denominator.
 
2013-03-11 01:46:17 PM  

Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.


They should. Supply-side economics states that spending on education raises productivity.
 
2013-03-11 01:46:53 PM  

Ennuipoet: FTA:  These factors include: the home life of children; the social dislocations of our time; America's Gospel of Instant Gratification; commercial TV; school sports; the restlessness of American society and its ingrained anti-intellectualism and ambivalence toward knowledge; youth's distrust of the adult world and the school; youth culture and its rejection of tradition; the Millennial Generation and its outlook on life; technology's negative impact on learning; Facebook; the eclipse of reading, and our youth's literal-mindedness, lack of intellectual curiosity, inability to ask significant questions and disinclination to cultivate a critical mind. These are far more relevant factors that affect student learning, and an article could be written on each of them.

Many of these words are confusing, most contain far too many letters and the entire article is much longer than the average American will read.  Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?


"Math is hard".  Plus there's a healthy dose of "kids these days!"
 
2013-03-11 01:47:00 PM  
I can't imagine many wanting to be a teacher in the public school system.
 
2013-03-11 01:47:40 PM  

palan: Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.

unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.

I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.


And yet it is still the case.

Nobody taught me any marketing skills in school.  Just how to be obedient, subservient, and to how to spend my time looking for work.
 
2013-03-11 01:47:53 PM  

palan: Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.

unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.

I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.


Stop being socialist welfare queens mooching off the rest of us and train your employees.
 
2013-03-11 01:48:36 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: rumpelstiltskin: EatHam: Ennuipoet: Could you dumb it down for the graduates of the Public School System?

Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.

All teachers are excellent. Except that one in New Jersey. Teachers will accept any rating scale the public proposes, as long as the scale reflects this fact. What teachers won't accept is an unfair scale, which includes ratings like "good" or "average".

Teachers' unions work for the benefit of the teachers, which is not synonymous with the benefit of the pupils.


Well, School Adiminstrators work for the benefit of the Administration, which is not synonymous with the benefit of both the teachers and the pupils.

How about this: If you want to fix schools in America, shrink the administration, get rid of NCLB, divide students by aptitude and drop school funded sports.

It is a sad times that we live in where a school is judged not on its acedemics but on how good its football team is.

We also need to change our culture in general to support critical thought over blind faith.
 
2013-03-11 01:49:11 PM  

Ned Stark: Stop being socialist welfare queens mooching off the rest of us and train your employees.


Looking for someone to rate your posts in this thread?
 
2013-03-11 01:50:08 PM  

jayg22: EatHam: Being a teacher is the only job that there has ever been where there is absolutely no possible way to tell someone who is a good at it from someone who is bad at it, and make sure that the people who are good at it get paid more.

Except for test results, but who wants to judge teachers by how much their students learn?


Test results aren't terribly good measures of teacher effectiveness. They help, but they're not great. You can't even judge them compared to other teachers in the same county. (After all, what if your best teachers went to the school with the worst students?)

No one has been happy with testing. But essentially, there are four possibilities for why students fail: parents (and they sure as hell ain't blaming themselves and they can't do squat about their neighbors), funding (and they sure as hell don't want to raise their taxes), the students themselves (and they sure as hell ain't blaming THEIR snowflake and they can't do squat about their neighbors'), and teachers - THERE'S THE TICKET!
 
2013-03-11 01:52:56 PM  

whidbey: palan: Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.

unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.

I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.

And yet it is still the case.

Nobody taught me any marketing skills in school.  Just how to be obedient, subservient, and to how to spend my time looking for work.


There were some studies done in various parts of the country, studying rich schools and poor schools and middle-class schools. It found that, in rich schools, they taught critical thinking. In middle-class schools, they taught how to find the right answer, not how to think. In poor schools, they taught obedience.

That's over-simplified, but not far enough from the mark to be significantly distorting.
 
2013-03-11 01:54:48 PM  

palan: Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.

unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.

I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.


A lot of corporations don't want to invest in local infrastructure (roads, education, power distribution) and decided it was quicker and cheaper to just move tech jobs overseas.  they can hire 4 geeks for a total of $20k a year rather than shelling out $60k to get an experienced US programmer.
 
2013-03-11 01:55:25 PM  

Gergesa: I can't imagine many wanting to be a teacher in the public school system.


After a decade as a software engineer and a decade as a researcher for the Navy, I decided to become a school teacher - working on my license now. I can't make anywhere NEAR as much money (starting salary is only a couple of thou above 50% of what I made working for the Navy), and the hourse are longer. But I just feel I have something to offer these kids.
 
2013-03-11 01:56:32 PM  

palan: Weaver95: i'm not sure our corporate masters actually want an educated population.

unlikely: I'm pretty sure they don't.

I would like to hire people who are well educated as does my company.  Hardware and driver development requires a decent education to be able to handle the work.  Having an uneducated populace would probably be more harmful for sales as well.


Sure. And at my company we need top-shelf educated people too.

But McStain and Halliburton don't need those. What they need is numbers, people who can swing hammers. JB Hunt doesn't need their drivers to be any more literate than the minimum for a CDL and a DOT log. And certain politicians need people who won't weigh actual pros and cons but will vote against their own interest based on visceral advertising.
 
2013-03-11 01:56:35 PM  

whidbey: Nobody taught me any marketing skills in school.


Yes, they did.  They taught you how to read a book, how to find information in the library, how to look things up, and how to go about learning whatever extra skills you don't have.

They even had a gym class to teach you how to not sit there on your ass.
 
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