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(Forbes)   Forbes says that the Denver Post says that the Associated Press says that Homeland Security wants to buy 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition. So I guess it's pretty serious   (forbes.com) divider line 200
    More: Unlikely, U.S. state abbreviations, Homeland Securities, The Denver Post, armoured personnel carriers, ammunition  
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1207 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Mar 2013 at 1:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-11 12:29:30 PM
Thank you Simone.
 
2013-03-11 12:35:23 PM
GRAAAAACE
 
2013-03-11 12:51:50 PM
An department that includes numerous law enforcement agencies and an entire farking branch of the military buys a lot of ammo.

I guess I'm supposed to be outraged?
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-03-11 12:57:04 PM
Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from another you been messin' around
 
2013-03-11 01:01:14 PM
This thread again?

As I understand it, they got a really good price on ammunition by buying it in bulk like that.
 
2013-03-11 01:02:39 PM
You can tell that this article is full of very good points because it uses the following:

-block quotes
-bullets
-rhetorical questions.

Block quotes, bullets, and rhetorical questions always mean you're serious. It reminds me of a conversation I had during the last election cycle with Ernest P. Dickerbag, a political strategist for Mitt Romney. We were having dinner and he had just finished a bite of his fennel-glazed salmon when he leaned back and belched and spoke to me:

"Pocket Ninja," he said, "it saddens me to say that Mitt Romney will likely not win the election."
"But why?" I asked. "Various unskewed polls show him leading by a very wide margin."
He only shook his head sadly. "I'm afraid those aren't accurate. And what's most maddening about this is that Obama hates America. I mean, he told me this. To my face, he said, 'I'm going to win the election, and I hate America.'"
"That's terrible," I said.
"It is," he acknowledged. "It's a terrible irony, but Obama only thinks it's funny. I broke down and cried at the thought, and he only laughed at me. He's a mean, terrible, America-hating asshat."
"I'm so sorry to hear that."


Shouldn't we all be sorry to hear that? Of course it's ridiculous to even ask the question; nobody in their right mind wouldn't be sorry. But the larger question remains: what are we prepared to do about it? What, indeed.
 
2013-03-11 01:04:58 PM
And the enemy is... us?
 
2013-03-11 01:08:44 PM
It's time to have a national conversation about the Department of Homeland Security? The time for that was a decade ago when it was first created, you farking toolboxes.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:05 PM

Sgt Otter: An department that includes numerous law enforcement agencies and an entire farking branch of the military buys a lot of ammo.

I guess I'm supposed to be outraged?


You have trouble understanding large numbers, don't you?
 
2013-03-11 01:09:24 PM
The article did seem to run in a circle.  Regardless, DHS is buying an obscenely staggering number of bullets.  It is being reported by multiple news agencies, including the Huffington Post.  Here is their official explanation:

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

That's fine, but at 15 million rounds a year (which sounds a bit wasteful in itself), 1.6 billion is enough to use for target practice for 106 years.  That sounds incredibly wasteful, not to mention that most of the guns that use these rounds will likely be obsolete by then.

So, why is DHS buying so many bullets?

Yeah, yeah, tinfoil, etc., etc.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:39 PM
That's about one apiece for our invasion of China, allowing for a few misses.
 
2013-03-11 01:10:14 PM
FINALLY they're getting serious about those death panels.
 
2013-03-11 01:10:15 PM
This is an OUTRAGE.  Never before the Obomba Administration has the department that includes the coast guard and other security agencies bought a SINGLE bullet.  Obviously he's planning to kill everyone in the US.  With bullets, our only weakness.
 
2013-03-11 01:10:50 PM
Damnit, Janet, I love you.

BillCo: The article did seem to run in a circle.  Regardless, DHS is buying an obscenely staggering number of bullets.  It is being reported by multiple news agencies, including the Huffington Post.  Here is their official explanation:

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

That's fine, but at 15 million rounds a year (which sounds a bit wasteful in itself), 1.6 billion is enough to use for target practice for 106 years.  That sounds incredibly wasteful, not to mention that most of the guns that use these rounds will likely be obsolete by then.

So, why is DHS buying so many bullets?

Yeah, yeah, tinfoil, etc., etc.


Also, good jorb in appearing tired, William.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-11 01:11:32 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: That's about one apiece for our invasion of China, allowing for a few misses.


Yea, but homeland security is for security inside the borders of the US.
 
2013-03-11 01:13:45 PM
I wouldn't be outraged if this is not coming at the same time as when it is extremely hard to find quality ammo.  This will only make it more hard to find a lot of popular sizes.
 
2013-03-11 01:14:11 PM
The only assholes hoarding ammo are the rubes who instantly clear Wal-Mart out of any and all .22lr.
 
2013-03-11 01:14:49 PM

uber humper: Sgt Otter: An department that includes numerous law enforcement agencies and an entire farking branch of the military buys a lot of ammo.

I guess I'm supposed to be outraged?

You have trouble understanding large numbers, don't you?


Big Numbers = conspiracy.  Got it.
 
2013-03-11 01:15:01 PM
These MRAP's ARE BEING SEEN ON U.S. STREETS all across America by verified observers with photos, videos, and descriptions."

But we couldn't find a "verified photo" of one, so enjoy these pictures of scarier looking vehicles in Iraq.

This pretty much sums up the whole "OMG!! AMMO!!!!!" scare... "We HEARD someone say that they verified that someone heard something that we won't get clarification on, but we're gonna publish the shiat out of it"
 
2013-03-11 01:15:16 PM
If someone were conspiratorial enough, they might propose that these bullets were being bought up so much to dry up the supply to the general public.

But that'd be crazy to believe that the government would even think of doing something like that.
 
2013-03-11 01:15:21 PM
Oh noes.
 
2013-03-11 01:15:48 PM
Nine times.

Nine times?

Nine times.
 
2013-03-11 01:15:53 PM
This is in response to your friends Facebook posts requesting armed guards at every public school. Somehow a massive expansion of armed government agents is now bad thing? Your friends really need to make up their minds.
 
2013-03-11 01:16:12 PM

uber humper: Lenny_da_Hog: That's about one apiece for our invasion of China, allowing for a few misses.

Yea, but homeland security is for security inside the borders of the US.


We'll annex China before we invade. How's "New San Francisco" sound for Beijing?
 
2013-03-11 01:16:15 PM

BillCo: That's fine, but at 15 million rounds a year (which sounds a bit wasteful in itself), 1.6 billion is enough to use for target practice for 106 years. That sounds incredibly wasteful, not to mention that most of the guns that use these rounds will likely be obsolete by then.

So, why is DHS buying so many bullets?


Gun control.


/The peasants are revolting!
 
2013-03-11 01:16:22 PM
Hasn't this bullshiat been making the rounds in conservative FW:FW:FW: emails for about 4 years now? I'm pretty sure I've seen idiots with FEMA camp fears spouting this nonsense for a while now.
 
2013-03-11 01:17:03 PM

BillCo: The article did seem to run in a circle.  Regardless, DHS is buying an obscenely staggering number of bullets.  It is being reported by multiple news agencies, including the Huffington Post.  Here is their official explanation:

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

That's fine, but at 15 million rounds a year (which sounds a bit wasteful in itself), 1.6 billion is enough to use for target practice for 106 years.  That sounds incredibly wasteful, not to mention that most of the guns that use these rounds will likely be obsolete by then.

So, why is DHS buying so many bullets?


That's 15 million rounds for just ONE training center (also called a FLETC).  I know for a fact that DHS runs multiple FLETCs and that existing officers (ICE, CBP, Secret Service, Coast guard) need bullets for target practice too.

What, have we gone so low that we're going to demand law enforcement officers buy their OWN ammunition for shooting practice?  For shame!
 
2013-03-11 01:17:12 PM
Well, they've got a lot of drones to arm.
 
2013-03-11 01:17:34 PM
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

Race War! Race War! It's on!
 
2013-03-11 01:17:43 PM
I wonder if there would be any point in saying that the order is actually for 240,000 rounds of ammo, not 1.6 Billion.
 
2013-03-11 01:17:48 PM
Not this carp again.  Here is an article that links to the whole set of government solicitations over the years:

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1003-the-history-of-dhs-ammuni tion-purchasesIf you look at the solicitations, as I did for many of them, many of the contracts are indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDIQ) contracts. They state a maximum number of rounds, not a guaranteed number. In addition, each contract has a maximum number of initial rounds and a number of option periods that could be exercised for more ammunition. 1.4 billion (1.88 for the period from 2005) is the sum of all the maximums of the contracts and options and isn't necessarily what was purchased - though those numbers are not clear from the solicitations, we'd have to get records for payments to the manufacturers and the signed contract to see that.
 
2013-03-11 01:17:56 PM
 
2013-03-11 01:18:24 PM
 
2013-03-11 01:19:28 PM

make me some tea: This thread again?

As I understand it, they got a really good price on ammunition by buying it in bulk like that.


But since it's more than they absolutely "need" immediately, it must be bad. I mean, my pistol only holds 6 rounds, so buying 500-700 rounds at a time is just overkill, they're just using that same logic.

I like how they worked the sequester into all of this.
 
2013-03-11 01:19:40 PM

Fart_Machine: uber humper: Sgt Otter: An department that includes numerous law enforcement agencies and an entire farking branch of the military buys a lot of ammo.

I guess I'm supposed to be outraged?

You have trouble understanding large numbers, don't you?

Big Numbers = conspiracy.  Got it.


No, but it does raise questions.  At the height of the Iraq war the Army was using 6 million rounds. At that rate the 1.6 billion would last the Army 22 years
 
2013-03-11 01:20:15 PM

uber humper: Sgt Otter: An department that includes numerous law enforcement agencies and an entire farking branch of the military buys a lot of ammo.

I guess I'm supposed to be outraged?

You have trouble understanding large numbers, don't you?


What's the big deal?  Military and law enforcement don't buy ammo according to what they need for 6 months or a year.  They stockpile based on apocalyptic scenarios and long term (10+ years) need.  It'll be distributed over dozens of depots, training facilities, forward posts, and hidden caches.  It's a block purchase that backfills what's been used for a decade or more, plus fills a strategic cache that mitigates rises in metal prices, scarcity of materials, whatever.  Maybe they're running on models of increased copper scarcity, or they've settled on an ammo type that they want to get a bulk rate on now.

Getting freaked out over a government ammo purchase is the height of fear mongering.
 
2013-03-11 01:20:46 PM

Ambivalence: What, have we gone so low that we're going to demand law enforcement officers buy their OWN ammunition for shooting practice? For shame!


Well, we expect public school teachers to buy their own classroom supplies.
 
2013-03-11 01:22:30 PM

Khellendros: What's the big deal? Military and law enforcement don't buy ammo according to what they need for 6 months or a year. They stockpile based on apocalyptic scenarios and long term (10+ years) need. It'll be distributed over dozens of depots, training facilities, forward posts, and hidden caches. It's a block purchase that backfills what's been used for a decade or more, plus fills a strategic cache that mitigates rises in metal prices, scarcity of materials, whatever. Maybe they're running on models of increased copper scarcity, or they've settled on an ammo type that they want to get a bulk rate on now.

Getting freaked out over a government ammo purchase is the height of fear mongering.


That's true. But they do not buy 20 years worth either. How many rounds does homeland security use now? At current use this will last homeland security and related agencies, what?   100 years?
 
2013-03-11 01:23:04 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: That's about one apiece for our invasion of China, allowing for a few misses.


Great, each American will have to shoot five times before going home.
 
2013-03-11 01:23:27 PM

BillCo: So, why is DHS buying so many bullets?


The 1.6 billion figure seems to be assuming the maximum for the contracts.

"up to 750 million rounds"
"40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years"

I wonder what the minumums are.
 
2013-03-11 01:24:31 PM
I heard it from Glenn Beck - over and over and over and over - so it must be true.  He ha$ no rea$on to lie.

sdd2000: It is really bad when the NRA even debunks this


Very cool. Thanks for that link.
 
2013-03-11 01:24:38 PM
Every time somebody brings this up I always ask 2 question:
1. What were the DHS buying habits during the previous administration and how is this different?
2. Do you understand that these are 5 year contracts that only set the minimum and maximum purchase limits and pricing for the lifetime of the contract and that the DHS is not taking order of these rounds and stockpiling them.

The scarey numbers are based on the absolute maximum number of ammo being procured over the entire lifetime of the government contract.  In reality, do we really expect that to happen?

The answers usually expose the ignorance this Alex Jones lunacy is based on.  If you can't answer these questions and truthfully integrate them into your narrative, you are nothing but a conspiracy theorist that is spreading absolute ignorance.

Proceed.
 
2013-03-11 01:25:33 PM

Weigard: FINALLY they're getting serious about those death panels.


It's gonna be an old-fashioned granny shootin'!
 
2013-03-11 01:26:22 PM

BillCo: That's fine, but at 15 million rounds a year (which sounds a bit wasteful in itself), 1.6 billion is enough to use for target practice for 106 years.  That sounds incredibly wasteful, not to mention that most of the guns that use these rounds will likely be obsolete by then.


A: You don't understand how firearms certification works, do you? You fire THOUSANDS of rounds on the range. A thousand times a thousand is a million. 15 million is 15,000 employees shooting one thousand rounds a year, or 7,500 people firing 2,000 rounds in a year. Period.

B: How will these guns be "obsolete"?

C: Programs expand, more people get higher, more ammo gets used at the range.
 
2013-03-11 01:27:08 PM
We are all aware that if the URL following forbes.com contains /sites/somejamoke'sname/ that it isn't officially a forbes article? It's some jamoke's personal blog feigning cred. Pay no mind.
 
2013-03-11 01:28:25 PM

uber humper: Khellendros: What's the big deal? Military and law enforcement don't buy ammo according to what they need for 6 months or a year. They stockpile based on apocalyptic scenarios and long term (10+ years) need. It'll be distributed over dozens of depots, training facilities, forward posts, and hidden caches. It's a block purchase that backfills what's been used for a decade or more, plus fills a strategic cache that mitigates rises in metal prices, scarcity of materials, whatever. Maybe they're running on models of increased copper scarcity, or they've settled on an ammo type that they want to get a bulk rate on now.

Getting freaked out over a government ammo purchase is the height of fear mongering.

That's true. But they do not buy 20 years worth either. How many rounds does homeland security use now? At current use this will last homeland security and related agencies, what?   100 years?


You assume "current use", and that they're taking delivery of all ammo right now.  It's likely an open IDIQ type contract, and it's set to expand quickly in case situations arise that require procurement of massive numbers of rounds.  It's called being prepared for the worst, and we expect them to do so.  "Current use" would leave law enforcement and military useless in a crisis scenario.
 
2013-03-11 01:28:55 PM

notto: 1. What were the DHS buying habits during the previous administration and how is this different?


If it was the same, which it isn't (do you think they buy 1.6 billion every four years?), would that justify the current request?

Should we not question? Homeland security is not a military force.  It's a police force. How many rounds do you think DHS uses in 'action' each year?
 
2013-03-11 01:29:10 PM
I heard you can buy them at 31 Flavors.
 
2013-03-11 01:29:40 PM
And just to add one more thing (since my previous comment was already covered by the time I finished typing it)

National law enforcement quarterly firearms training and qualification is not the same as "target practice".
 
2013-03-11 01:29:55 PM

Amos Quito: Meanwhile back at the ranch...


I just had a background check a few days ago when I went to my local gun store to buy a .45. As I was leaving, I noticed a used AR-15. Bought that too. Even to buy an assault weapon, the background check only takes a matter of minutes. I don't have possession of it yet but I'll be turning it over to the Tucson PD when I do.

Why? What kind of point is he trying to make? As far as the background check goes, 2 minutes or 2 weeks, what are they supposed to have to take time to find out? This is stupid grandstanding, that's all.
 
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