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(Fuel Fix)   Donald 'Duck' Dunn's formula has been cracked without the use of music   (fuelfix.com) divider line 76
    More: Cool, liquid fuels, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, natural gas prices, renewable fuels, uc san francisco, startup company, LyondellBasell Industries, Said, Edward  
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5337 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Mar 2013 at 9:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-11 09:54:26 AM  
Why doesn't Donald wear pants?  Mickey wears pants and so does Goofy, but freaking Donald doesn't, why!!!!
 
2013-03-11 10:00:12 AM  
Shame on you subby.  I saw the name Donald 'Duck' Dunn at the start of the headline & was sure that he had just died.

/then I remembered that he died about a year ago & got sad all over again
//all before finishing reading the headline
///my brain is firing on all cylinders today - probably should switch to decaf...
 
2013-03-11 10:02:30 AM  
If the sh*t fits, wear it.
 
2013-03-11 10:05:06 AM  
What you did there, I did not see it.

/cool article anyway
 
2013-03-11 10:10:36 AM  
From IMDB

Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
 
2013-03-11 10:20:28 AM  
I don't get it.
 
2013-03-11 10:30:04 AM  
We're getting the band back together.

assets.rollingstone.com
 
2013-03-11 10:47:13 AM  

sgnilward: What you did there, I did not see it


Lt. Cheese Weasel: I don't get it.


Come on, guys!

Vuseen: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.


We have a winnar!
 
2013-03-11 11:02:50 AM  
Amazing, you can play YYZ.
 
2013-03-11 11:05:58 AM  

Mentat: Amazing, you can play YYZ.


So can I.  In fact, Morse is my second language.

/Russian is a distant third.
 
2013-03-11 11:10:05 AM  
It's GOAT PISS, subby!  Not natural gas.  GOAT PISS into gasoline!

Jesus!

*throws a stack of papers up into air*
*leaves office in a huff*
 
2013-03-11 11:11:22 AM  
I'm still working on the Matt "Guitar" Murphy Theorem.
 
2013-03-11 11:15:05 AM  
Subby is a retard.
 
2013-03-11 11:19:35 AM  

Vuseen: From IMDB

Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.


Thanks, it was just too obscure for me this morning, what with the time change and all.


Back to TFA, I wonder if this will get the attention of the folks in Alberta....
 
2013-03-11 11:37:10 AM  
So if this thing works, gasoline will go up to $6/gallon. Because fark you, that's why.
 
2013-03-11 11:39:28 AM  

xanadian: It's GOAT PISS, subby!  Not natural gas.  GOAT PISS into gasoline!

Jesus!

*throws a stack of papers up into air*
*leaves office in a huff*


The stuff is worth about the same as goat piss in some fields.
 
2013-03-11 11:42:47 AM  
I liked him better as one of the Magictones.

/cuando, cuando, cuando.
 
2013-03-11 11:51:14 AM  

xanadian: It's GOAT PISS, subby!  Not natural gas.  GOAT PISS into gasoline!

Jesus!

*throws a stack of papers up into air*
*leaves office in a huff*


That's too quick.  You should leave in a minute and a huff.
 
2013-03-11 12:32:51 PM  
If these guys work super hard and get their process to production in record time, they MIGHT make a little bit of money before the country unlodges its head from its ass and stops making it free to emit CO2 into the atmosphere.

Probably not, though, since the battery people are working harder and in 5 years it will seem quaint to fill your car with liquid fuel.
 
2013-03-11 12:35:10 PM  

Hollie Maea: in 5 years


Is that 5 years from 20 years from now, or 5 years from 20 years ago?
 
2013-03-11 12:52:28 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm still working on the Matt "Guitar" Murphy Theorem.


Alos known as the "fried chicken corollary"

/I know, I know.....thatsracist.jpg
 
2013-03-11 01:11:02 PM  

Hollie Maea: Probably not, though, since the battery people are working harder and in 5 years it will seem quaint to fill your car with liquid fuel.


I've been promised that every year since like 1999.

You think that roughly 100 *BILLION* dollars of infrastructure (not to mention the 200-some million vehicles themselves) are just going to disappear in 5 years?

N.B.L.  - Not Bloody Likely.
 
2013-03-11 01:12:32 PM  

Hollie Maea: If these guys work super hard and get their process to production in record time, they MIGHT make a little bit of money before the country unlodges its head from its ass and stops making it free to emit CO2 into the atmosphere.

Probably not, though, since the battery people are working harder and in 5 years it will seem quaint to fill your car with liquid fuel.


stblogs.automotive.com

ICE's won't go away that quickly.  BEVs and HFCVs will still be in their introductory phases for the next decade...
 
2013-03-11 01:25:42 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm still working on the Matt "Guitar" Murphy Theorem.


You better think about what you saying.
You better think about the consequences of your actions.
 
2013-03-11 01:35:12 PM  
This Blues Brothers thread brought to you by... my sweet, fat horn sound.
 
2013-03-11 01:45:45 PM  

dittybopper: You think that roughly 100 *BILLION* dollars of infrastructure (not to mention the 200-some million vehicles themselves) are just going to disappear in 5 years?


No.  People will continue to drive ICEs for probably 20 years.  But they'll be quaint, and people looking to buy new cars will prefer electric.

Five years.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  Most people don't realize how close we are to market transforming technology.  When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that will change everything.
 
2013-03-11 02:27:22 PM  
'Blues Brothers' reference?

Figures.
 
2013-03-11 02:39:51 PM  
Quando quando quando
 
2013-03-11 03:07:32 PM  

Hollie Maea: dittybopper: You think that roughly 100 *BILLION* dollars of infrastructure (not to mention the 200-some million vehicles themselves) are just going to disappear in 5 years?

No.  People will continue to drive ICEs for probably 20 years.  But they'll be quaint, and people looking to buy new cars will prefer electric.

Five years.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  Most people don't realize how close we are to market transforming technology.  When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that you can charge to full in five minutes or less, that will change everything.


You forgot a bit.
 
2013-03-11 03:13:48 PM  

Hollie Maea: dittybopper: 
Five years.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  Most people don't realize how close we are to market transforming technology.  When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that will change everything.


So on my road trip from Houston to Los Angeles, will I still have to stop for 16 hours before I can go another 250 miles again?  Range anxiety has little to do with range and what a massive pain in the ass recharging is.  If your 250+ mile electric car still takes 2/3's of a day to recharge, then electrics will remain undesirable. If you're betting on ICE's becoming "quaint", recharge time and capacity improving and supporting infrastructure being built within the next 20 years, can you call me about some great beachfront property in Arizona? You'll be sitting pretty with your awesome electric vehicle and the best property money can buy when the real estate market recovers.

It's already been 20+ years since the EV1, and society's still no closer to supporting electrics on a large scale.
 
2013-03-11 03:33:48 PM  

Mentat: Amazing, you can play YYZ.


It's "zed", and no, I can't!
 
2013-03-11 03:34:03 PM  

twobux


If the sh*t fits, wear it.


Scoot over, goddammit.
 
2013-03-11 03:36:56 PM  

Hollie Maea: When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that will change everything.


I agree, so long as you can recharge it in 10 minutes or less.

The other caveat is if you can get it down even more in price.  I'd consider something with an *HONEST* 250 mile range at highway speeds as a commuter car, but it would have to be as cheap as my current car.

I just measured 38 MPG* from my $12k Accent, and I drive about 300 miles a week to work and back.  With gas costing $5 a gallon, over a year that will cost me about $1,900 a year in gas.  That means that at a $25k price, the "break even" point for me would be 6.8 years, and nearly 100,000 miles.  That's ignoring the cost of the electricity to recharge the car, and it assumes that gas will be at least $1 higher than it has been.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.

*Technically, 37.8 something.  EPA rating is 36 mpg highway.
 
2013-03-11 03:38:53 PM  

dittybopper: That means that at a $25k price, the "break even" point for me would be 6.8 years, and nearly 100,000 miles.


I should say that if the break even point is something more reasonable, say, 3 or 4 years, then I'd be all for it.  That would mean a price point of $18k or so.
 
2013-03-11 03:42:30 PM  

MikeSass: Subby is a retard.


You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
2013-03-11 03:52:48 PM  

dittybopper: Hollie Maea: When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that will change everything.

I agree, so long as you can recharge it in 10 minutes or less.

The other caveat is if you can get it down even more in price.  I'd consider something with an *HONEST* 250 mile range at highway speeds as a commuter car, but it would have to be as cheap as my current car.

I just measured 38 MPG* from my $12k Accent, and I drive about 300 miles a week to work and back.  With gas costing $5 a gallon, over a year that will cost me about $1,900 a year in gas.  That means that at a $25k price, the "break even" point for me would be 6.8 years, and nearly 100,000 miles.  That's ignoring the cost of the electricity to recharge the car, and it assumes that gas will be at least $1 higher than it has been.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.

*Technically, 37.8 something.  EPA rating is 36 mpg highway.


What about swappable power supplies?  Like the same principle people use for their propane tanks for grills.  Go to the gas station (or whatever they'd be called now) and swap out your used battery for a charged one, and go about your way.  The station charges your old one and gives it to someone else when it is full.  Make it some club you join for the service, like an extension of AAA or something.
 
2013-03-11 04:10:18 PM  

StrangeQ: You forgot a bit.


No, I didn't forget anything.  An electric vehicle with a range over 250 does not need to be able to recharge in 5 minutes.  It is sufficient for it to be able to charge at a rate of 5 miles per minute, which is already possible.

Driving an electric vehicle is very different from driving a gas car.  You don't really ever "stop for gas".
 
2013-03-11 04:21:59 PM  

Hollie Maea: StrangeQ: You forgot a bit.

No, I didn't forget anything.  An electric vehicle with a range over 250 does not need to be able to recharge in 5 minutes.  It is sufficient for it to be able to charge at a rate of 5 miles per minute, which is already possible.

Driving an electric vehicle is very different from driving a gas car.  You don't really ever "stop for gas".


But you have to stop for power, which is equivalent to stopping for gas, on any trip 250+ miles.  Only now it takes 50 minutes per stop instead of 5.
 
2013-03-11 04:37:33 PM  

Hollie Maea: Driving an electric vehicle is very different from driving a gas car.  You don't really ever "stop for gas".


You have to stop more often (fewer miles) and you have to wait MUCH longer to refill.

Yeah, that sounds awesome.
 
2013-03-11 04:48:28 PM  

Atreyou40: So on my road trip from Houston to Los Angeles, will I still have to stop for 16 hours before I can go another 250 miles again?


No.  Don't be retarded.

Here is how an actual trip from Houston to LA would work, with a car that has a 300 mile range, fast chargers ubiquitous at strip malls and rest areas (these will be true within 5 years), that can charge at a rate of 5 miles per minute (this is true now).  I am going to assume an average speed of 60mph.

Leave Houston at 7:00 AM.  Distance traveled: 0 miles.  Distance to LA: 1500 miles.  Range in car: 300 miles.
10:00 AM.  Stop at a rest area to take a piss.  Distance traveled: 180 miles.  Distance to LA: 1320 miles.  Range in car: 120 miles.
10:05 AM. Leave.  You took a quick piss cause you are a hurry.  Range in car: 140 miles.
12:05 PM. Stop for lunch.  Distance traveled: 300. Distance to LA: 1170 miles. Range in car: 20 miles
1:00 PM Get back on the road.  Range in car: 295 miles
4:30 PM Have to stop a SECOND time to take a piss!  Shouldn't have drank that soda. Distance traveled: 510 miles.  Distance to LA: 990 miles. Range in car: 85 miles
4:40 PM  Get back in the car kids, time's wasting.  I don't care how sore your legs are. Range in car: 125.
6:40 PM Time to stop for dinner you whiny snots. Distance traveled: 630 miles. Distance to LA: 870 miles. Range in car: 5 miles.
7:30 PM Starting the final stretch of the day. Range in car: 255 miles.
11:30 PM  Stop at a hotel. Distance traveled: 870 miles. Distance to LA: 630 miles. Range in car: 15 miles.
Next day 7:00 AM  Rise and shine!  Range in car: 300 miles.
10:00 AM.  Stop at a rest area to take a piss.  Distance traveled: 1050 miles.  Distance to LA: 450 miles.  Range in car: 120 miles.
10:05 AM. Leave.  You took a quick piss cause you are a hurry.  Range in car: 140 miles.
12:20 PM. Stop for lunch.  Distance traveled: 1185. Distance to LA: 315 miles. Range in car: 5 miles
1:20 PM Get back on the road.  Range in car: 300 miles
4:20 PM Stop to take your last piss.  In the five minutes you are there, you get the last amount of charge you need to finish in one shot
6:25 PM.  You arrive in LA with 5 miles of range on your car.

So, you can do a 1500 mile trip stopping only twice a day to eat and twice a day to pee, which is the minimum number of stops most people would do for a trip like that.  It's marginal--you might have to eat slower than you would have otherwise, and you might arrive at your destination 30 minutes to an hour later than you would in a gas car.  That's with charging speeds available today, and ranges that are very nearly available today--a certainty in 5 years.  If charging gets up to 8 miles a minute (probable) and ranges get up to 350 miles (probable), then you would be able to do the trip exactly the same speed as you would in a gas car (people who pop in a catheter and drive all night not included...but that's hardly "mainstream").

Remember that's the one time a year or so you drive 1500 miles in a trip.  The other 360 odd days of the year you have a "full gas tank" every morning and NEVER stop for charging when you are on the road.  You don't care if you can recharge in 5 minutes because you NEVER HAVE TO DO IT.

People who say that electric cars have to be able to charge as fast as gas fueling is have never driven one, and lack the imagination to think of how life would be if they had a full tank every morning.  Today's cars, with 100 mile range, such as my car, are an occasional pain due to limited range. A car with 300 mile range, which will arrive soon, would have zero range anxiety, even for long trips, and would save you a TON of time you waste now getting gas.  This morning I sat in line at the gas station for 15 minutes (better half driving the electric today).  It is so much nicer not having to refuel on the road.
 
2013-03-11 04:51:11 PM  

Hollie Maea: Five years. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Most people don't realize how close we are to market transforming technology. When an electric car comes out with a 250+ mile range for less than 25K, that will change everything


So, please tell us...

Which automaker is currently planning to produce this 250-mile range car, for less than $25K, in the next five years?

I don't doubt that electric vehicles will one day become the majority of the automotive fleet, but not for a very long time.
 
2013-03-11 04:54:15 PM  

Hollie Maea: I am going to assume an average speed of 60mph.


At 60mph, the Tesla Model S has a range of around 250 miles.  On a flat road, with no wind, and with no HVAC use.

Please recalculate.
 
2013-03-11 05:12:42 PM  
But you'll never get Mr. Fabulous.
 
2013-03-11 05:13:15 PM  

Hollie Maea: 6:40 PM Time to stop for dinner you whiny snots. Distance traveled: 630 miles. Distance to LA: 870 miles. Range in car: 5 miles.


You're assuming some serious precision in finding a place for dinner out in the middle of nowhere.
 
2013-03-11 05:15:22 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Hollie Maea: 6:40 PM Time to stop for dinner you whiny snots. Distance traveled: 630 miles. Distance to LA: 870 miles. Range in car: 5 miles.

You're assuming some serious precision in finding a place for dinner out in the middle of nowhere.


Actually, Van Horn is at 624 miles, so that's a place, kinda.
 
2013-03-11 05:19:12 PM  

Hollie Maea: Atreyou40: So on my road trip from Houston to Los Angeles, will I still have to stop for 16 hours before I can go another 250 miles again?

No.  Don't be retarded.

Here is how an actual trip from Houston to LA would work, with a car that has a 300 mile range, fast chargers ubiquitous at strip malls and rest areas (these will be true within 5 years), that can charge at a rate of 5 miles per minute (this is true now).  I am going to assume an average speed of 60mph.

Leave Houston at 7:00 AM.  Distance traveled: 0 miles.  Distance to LA: 1500 miles.  Range in car: 300 miles.
10:00 AM.  Stop at a rest area to take a piss.  Distance traveled: 180 miles.  Distance to LA: 1320 miles.  Range in car: 120 miles.
10:05 AM. Leave.  You took a quick piss cause you are a hurry.  Range in car: 140 miles.
12:05 PM. Stop for lunch.  Distance traveled: 300. Distance to LA: 1170 miles. Range in car: 20 miles
1:00 PM Get back on the road.  Range in car: 295 miles
4:30 PM Have to stop a SECOND time to take a piss!  Shouldn't have drank that soda. Distance traveled: 510 miles.  Distance to LA: 990 miles. Range in car: 85 miles
4:40 PM  Get back in the car kids, time's wasting.  I don't care how sore your legs are. Range in car: 125.
6:40 PM Time to stop for dinner you whiny snots. Distance traveled: 630 miles. Distance to LA: 870 miles. Range in car: 5 miles.
7:30 PM Starting the final stretch of the day. Range in car: 255 miles.
11:30 PM  Stop at a hotel. Distance traveled: 870 miles. Distance to LA: 630 miles. Range in car: 15 miles.
Next day 7:00 AM  Rise and shine!  Range in car: 300 miles.
10:00 AM.  Stop at a rest area to take a piss.  Distance traveled: 1050 miles.  Distance to LA: 450 miles.  Range in car: 120 miles.
10:05 AM. Leave.  You took a quick piss cause you are a hurry.  Range in car: 140 miles.
12:20 PM. Stop for lunch.  Distance traveled: 1185. Distance to LA: 315 miles. Range in car: 5 miles
1:20 PM Get back on the road.  Range in car: 300 miles
4:20 PM Stop to take ...


I'm jealous that you can go for 4 hours without having to stop to piss.  Maybe in the old days....
 
2013-03-11 05:25:27 PM  
Yes, derpers, I know:

1. You wouldn't be going 60 mph.  I did that to make the math easier (I still screwed up...only gave myself 20 miles instead of 25 for my 5 minute piss stops).
2. You wouldn't be stopping at the exact times/locations I mentioned.  Again, making the math easier while also being plausible.
3. Yes, this is marginal--a 350 range car with 8 miles per minute charge would make it much easier.  Probably will be more like 7-8 years before that is here.  I'm basing this on what I expect in 5 years.

Also:
No, I'm not going to recalculate using numbers from the Tesla Model S.  That's today's technology.  Not 5 years from now.
Who is planning to make the car I described in 5 years?  Lots of people.  In the last two years the first production electrics came out.  This year, 2013, almost everyone is coming out with a gen 1 electric.  Since this is a brand new technology, the rate of improvement will be much faster than the typical car technology cycle.

Anyway, we'll see.  But my main point is, you don't need to be able to recharge in 5 minutes.  Less than 1 percent of drivers would need this feature.
 
2013-03-11 05:50:22 PM  

Dr. Baird: But you'll never get Mr. Fabulous.


I'm already on board.
 
2013-03-11 06:46:55 PM  
Goddam, you people must just take 250-and-1500 mile trips ALL THE TIME! I mean, I drive more than 250 in a day on like, vacation. You must be the same people that buy giant pickups because once a year you need to pick up a sheet of plywood.
 
2013-03-11 07:25:54 PM  

ghare: You must be the same people that buy giant pickups because once a year you need to pick up a sheet of plywood.


Or, according to the ads, tow a 40 foot boat to the top of a mountain like some kind of Redneck Noah.
 
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