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(Chmura Economics & Analytics)   Switching to Daylight Saving Time costs the American economy $434 million due to lost sleep, according to the rocket surgeons at the Institute For Pulling Statistics Out Of Our Asses   (sleepbetter.org) divider line 38
    More: Unlikely  
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2288 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2013 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-11 10:24:35 AM  
6 votes:
DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.
2013-03-11 10:31:32 AM  
4 votes:

Gifted Many Few: dittybopper: If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.

People need to be upgrading. All my devices update automatically. I figure the up to date people like me offset the slackers that use obsolete technology.


Do your wall clocks update automatically?  Alarm clocks?  What about your stove?  Hell, even my relatively new (2 years old) TV needs to be told when to change.

My stereo is probably older than you are.  Don't you think it's wasteful to get rid of things that still work simply because they aren't "new"?
2013-03-11 09:36:00 AM  
4 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


School children still have to wait for the bus in the dark. This has always seemed like the dumbest reasoning to me. In the meantime millions of people have to walk or drive home from work in the dark because the sun goes down so early.
2013-03-11 09:14:25 AM  
4 votes:
What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back" (which makes sense because instead of losing an hour, we're gaining one). So, let's do this: we'll mandate that, for the next year or so, we'll "fall back" one more hour until the budget deficit is fixed. No need to get unreasonable about it...we can do one a week, for an economic gain of about $2 billion per month. $24 billion in a year, not too shabby. Yes, this will cause some havoc with people's schedules, but as Mr. Obama is so fond of saying, we've all got to sacrifice. We could even switch it up a bit and make the fallback 2 hours at a time, which would double our savings. We could be in a surplus situation in a couple of years.

And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

Hey, that's an idea...what if we could fall back enough to change past events? Like, maybe stop the recession before it happened? We could make a ton of money for the economy AND prevent economic collapse, so we'd be ahead on two fronts. I'm excited about this.
2013-03-11 11:43:02 AM  
3 votes:
Daylight Savings Time was fine when it was understood that we lived in a society that operated primarily from sun up to sun down.  However, we are currently operating in a 24 hour society.  I see this as no different than a person who sets his clock ahead 5 minutes so he won't be late- we're basically fooling ourselves by calling hours by different names.  You do not gain an hour of daylight- it's already there, as any third shifter can attest to.

The only reason I can see that Indiana went to Daylight Savings Time was because "everyone was doing it".  But, in my opinion, this is just an example of everyone doing something stupid and outdated because it makes them feel comfortable.
2013-03-11 10:23:35 AM  
3 votes:
Well given that I was late this morning because the change farked up my baby's schedule leading her to not sleep last night and in turn me not sleep I fully support abolishing this archaic and idiotic time change shiat.
2013-03-11 10:23:19 AM  
3 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


Countries without it get along fine. It's glorious to go a whole year in a place that doesn't mess with the clocks.
2013-03-11 09:14:18 AM  
3 votes:
I'd imagine we lose at least twice that to people biatching about the time change on social media.
2013-03-11 01:09:17 PM  
2 votes:
Still not sure why changing the clock is necessary AT ALL in a 24 hour society.  It doesn't matter if your personal clocks are automatic or sundials.  Why, in a world where things run for 3 shifts, are we changing our CLOCKS and not simply leaving it up to businesses and organizations to change thier hours of operation based on what best serves their needs?

Don't want your kids out in the dark hours?  Get the school board to change the hours in your area.  Want to take advantage of that extra hour of daylight that you normally sleep through because it's what you are accustomed to?  SET YOUR CLOCK EARLIER.  Playing games with what everyone in the area calls a particular hour of the day is foolish.
2013-03-11 12:49:59 PM  
2 votes:

DownDaRiver: If you regularly need can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine because without  it  you are adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.



Fixed.
2013-03-11 12:18:42 PM  
2 votes:
I lived in Indiana when they adopted DST.  After a few years, the public utility observed that, even though DST was supposed to reduce utility usage due to people being awake for more of the time the sun was up (or the sun being in the sky for more of the period people were awake), the increase in air conditioner usage far more than made up for the reduction in use of artificial lighting, and overall DST cost much more than it saved.
2013-03-11 12:01:56 PM  
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


We had DST when I was a child and when my sons were young and we all went to school on dark winter mornings. Making people change their sleep/waking patterns twice a year is is harder than learning to live with an hour of darkness for a few months. Little children aren't stupid or so delicate that they can't survive a dark morning.
2013-03-11 11:25:30 AM  
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: - If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country. Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.
2013-03-11 10:50:40 AM  
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


I dunno, Arizona has handled it pretty well.
2013-03-11 10:35:29 AM  
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


FALSE


I've spent the last 8 years without DST. You are disingenuous and dead wrong besides.
2013-03-11 10:33:24 AM  
2 votes:

Begoggle: DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.


Every year, we read in the media that Benjamin Franklin first proposed DST. He did, of course, but the ill-educated media morons never say anything more about this, which tells me they know nothing of Franklin. Franklin was a master of the absurd argument and had keen and somewhat evil sense of humor. He would propose ridiculous things and support them with what first appear to be sound logic, but when taken on whole, become farcical. His proposal for DST was one of these. He never meant for it to be taken seriously. He was just farking with the stupid people of his day.
2013-03-11 10:29:28 AM  
2 votes:
Babwa Wawa:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

This is perfectly fine.  I don't give a fark if it is darker in the morning if I can still have some light when I get off from work.
2013-03-11 10:19:51 AM  
2 votes:

Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back"


Which is totally false. You ALSO lose money when people wake up too early, go back to sleep, and wind up being late.

It's an archaic system with no real reason for existing and no real reason to stick around.
2013-03-11 04:44:23 PM  
1 votes:

hideous: rocket SURGEONS?  we're getting so stupid we don't even know our own sayings.


[notsureifserious.jpg]
2013-03-11 04:40:16 PM  
1 votes:

dready zim: Work should start 2 hours after dawn and stop 2 hours before dusk.


That would suck if you lived in Alaska.
2013-03-11 04:38:52 PM  
1 votes:
I just moved from Arizona (no DST) to Colorado (DST) and I have to say that having lived under both systems, this morning really, really sucked.
2013-03-11 02:45:55 PM  
1 votes:

StrangeQ: Babwa Wawa:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

This is perfectly fine.  I don't give a fark if it is darker in the morning if I can still have some light when I get off from work.


I don't care which system is in use, just stop changing to the other one! Before Saturday sunrise was about 6:30 am, so the sky was getting light when I left for work and there was plenty of daylight after work too.

Now it is pitch black when I go to work (and yes the kids are in the dark waiting on the bus too) and it's now not dark until after 7:30 or so in the evening. By mid-summer it won't be dark until well after 8:00 pm; that's just wrong.
2013-03-11 01:26:02 PM  
1 votes:
If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

What issues should I be working on? Please tell me how to adjust my internal body clock effortlessly.

Where I'm at now, I'd love to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm.

Try it when the sun rises at 11 AM and sets at 2:30. It was a tradition when I was a student to eat the thanksgiving pot luck and then go watch the sun set from the building roof. Day light savings time all year would make the sun rise at noon. I don't think I could take that.

If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

It doesn't, it is the change in sleep habits that creates the cost. Therefore all the rest of your argument is invalid.

I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And because you are lucky enough to have a flexible internal clock no-one else shouldn't have trouble. Let me illustrate your logic here. I have no trouble with advanced physics and calculus, so I don't understand why you might not be able to do orbital mechanics in your head. What's the problem here? What's wrong with you? Or I can take 6 benadryl before getting drowsy, I can't understand people who get drowsy after only 1. They must be lazy.
2013-03-11 01:23:21 PM  
1 votes:

EViLTeW: A bunch of people are on Fark...complaining about lost productivity...in the middle of a business day in the US where most Fark members are from...and they're being serious..

I'd act surprised...but today isn't my first day browsing Fark.


Goofing off on Fark is optional... changing our clocks isn't.  And no, of course we're not taking our "change clock" time out of our Fark Time...
2013-03-11 01:21:47 PM  
1 votes:

DownDaRiver: MyKingdomForYourHorse: DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

Have a baby, that changes right fast

Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?


no...having a baby (or an older child, too) makes the time change that much more difficult. if they just got used to going to sleep at 7 and now 7 is 8 you might have meltdown.

/we pulled it off last night but we will see how tonight goes
2013-03-11 01:12:54 PM  
1 votes:
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
Hi Everybody!  Whats all the fuss about?
2013-03-11 12:32:09 PM  
1 votes:

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

If it wasn't for DST, the sunrise in my area would be as early as 5:19.  A time when most folks are sleeping.  IMHO, the purpose of DST is most people will have more daylight when they're actually awake.


Another example of why Fark needs a "Stupid" button.
2013-03-11 12:18:35 PM  
1 votes:

SuperChuck: Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.

You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?


Hell, my 5 year old is late for kindergarten at 7:20 AM
2013-03-11 12:07:50 PM  
1 votes:
2013-03-11 11:51:33 AM  
1 votes:
Has anyone mentioned that Fark.com goes a long way in contributing to the non-productive factor?
2013-03-11 11:28:29 AM  
1 votes:

priapic_abandon: Three cars in the driveway, all have a different system for changing the time:

My wife's Yaris you hold the clock button down until the minutes start blinking, wait ten seconds then the hour starts blinking, push the button immediately to change the hour, wait ten more secs for the hour to stop blinking. My Accord has dedicated hour and minutes buttons, no problem there. My daughter's Civic only has a clock in the aftermarket stereo, I think you recite a spell in Olde Elvish and it might change the time, or not.


I never change the time on the clock in my car. It is permanently set to EST. Ditto on the wall clocks that I have to get a step-stool out to reach. Screw all that. I know what time it is.

Those of us who live close to the western edge of a time zone particularly hate DST. I'm only about 50 miles from the western edge of the eastern zone and right now, the sun doesn't rise until after 8am. Around the summer solstice, there will still be light in the sky at 10pm. How's that for screwing up your circadian rhythms?
2013-03-11 11:24:57 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: FALSE


I've spent the last 8 years without DST. You are disingenuous and dead wrong besides.


Disingenuous?  What's disingenuous about outlining what the days would look like at the solstices?

Jesus.  Take a deep breath, buddy, OK?

DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.


So much this.
2013-03-11 10:44:01 AM  
1 votes:

odinsposse: JackieRabbit: Begoggle: DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.

Every year, we read in the media that Benjamin Franklin first proposed DST. He did, of course, but the ill-educated media morons never say anything more about this, which tells me they know nothing of Franklin. Franklin was a master of the absurd argument and had keen and somewhat evil sense of humor. He would propose ridiculous things and support them with what first appear to be sound logic, but when taken on whole, become farcical. His proposal for DST was one of these. He never meant for it to be taken seriously. He was just farking with the stupid people of his day.

So I shouldn't have slept with all of those old ladies?


He proposed it to save on expensive candles. And, once I succeed in my ascention to mad scientist/supervillain, I will ensure that the switch to daylight savings time costs at least $434 million if the people can't make it to that number naturally.
2013-03-11 10:43:35 AM  
1 votes:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

And yet, despite our grand efforts to eradicate this plague, small children continue to wait for the bus in the dark all around the country.  The horror...  The horror...

DST has nothing to do with this.
2013-03-11 10:38:42 AM  
1 votes:
I don't understand people who claim to lose an hour of sleep (excluding those who work Saturday night andSunday morning) at the beginning of DST.  It happens between Saturday and Sunday, the time when fewest people are working.  If you go to bed at your regular time Saturday night (which is typically not a fixed time like during workdays) and sleep your normal number of hours, it will be an hour later when you wake, with no reduction in sleep.  Then, on Sunday night, you go to bed at your regular time after being awake one hour less.  Both nights you get your regular amount of sleep, but the day in between has one fewer hour of being awake.  You have actually had an increase in sleep relative to your awake time.

Everyone's tired on Monday mornings.  DST is just a scape goat to blame it on this time of year.  I celebrate the lighter evenings and the sun not shining quite so early every morning.
2013-03-11 10:30:24 AM  
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?
2013-03-11 10:16:48 AM  
1 votes:
Just imagine the loss if it happened during March Madness basketball.
2013-03-11 09:06:02 AM  
1 votes:
Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.
 
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