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(Chmura Economics & Analytics)   Switching to Daylight Saving Time costs the American economy $434 million due to lost sleep, according to the rocket surgeons at the Institute For Pulling Statistics Out Of Our Asses   (sleepbetter.org) divider line 162
    More: Unlikely  
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2297 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2013 at 10:15 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-11 12:18:42 PM  
I lived in Indiana when they adopted DST.  After a few years, the public utility observed that, even though DST was supposed to reduce utility usage due to people being awake for more of the time the sun was up (or the sun being in the sky for more of the period people were awake), the increase in air conditioner usage far more than made up for the reduction in use of artificial lighting, and overall DST cost much more than it saved.
 
2013-03-11 12:19:06 PM  
If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.
 
2013-03-11 12:21:03 PM  
I was woken up at 8 am Sunday. Worked till 2:30 because of this time change bullshiat.
 
2013-03-11 12:24:11 PM  

Shazam999: Good grief, if a time change messes up the farking state, I can't imagine what something that really matters does to your people.


Sometimes its hard and we just need to lie down
 
2013-03-11 12:25:05 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


I don't understand anal seepage. But if an employee came in late because of it, I would show him a little compassion.
 
2013-03-11 12:25:35 PM  

doglover: Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back"

Which is totally false. You ALSO lose money when people wake up too early, go back to sleep, and wind up being late.

It's an archaic system with no real reason for existing and no real reason to stick around.


Spit out the hook, chief.
 
2013-03-11 12:27:44 PM  

Burr: DiabloCanyonOne: busy chillin': this is most likely impossible and possibly stupid...but let's split the difference in the fall at 30 minutes and never f*cking do this sh*t again.

Venezuela is on GMT-4½ time.

India is that way as well...

And Nepal is like UTC +8.25


so you're saying there's a chance?!?!?!
 
2013-03-11 12:31:07 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

Have a baby, that changes right fast


Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?
 
2013-03-11 12:32:09 PM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

If it wasn't for DST, the sunrise in my area would be as early as 5:19.  A time when most folks are sleeping.  IMHO, the purpose of DST is most people will have more daylight when they're actually awake.


Another example of why Fark needs a "Stupid" button.
 
2013-03-11 12:32:17 PM  

thornhill: Well, traffic accidents do actually increase the first Monday after the spring forward.


Traffic in Chicagoland was HORRIBLE today. People were seemingly driving into each other out of principle (even more than usual). Could be coincidence, but what you propose had occurred to me.
 
2013-03-11 12:35:58 PM  
A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.
 
2013-03-11 12:41:36 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Consider that the same households have people spending more time going to the bathroom each day, and that "statistic" is worthless. "OH MY GOD! Going to the bathroom costs the economy eleventy zillion dollars per day!"
 
2013-03-11 12:44:28 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.



assuming you dont have a self setting clock.. going up one digit is like 15 seconds not  300
 
2013-03-11 12:49:59 PM  

DownDaRiver: If you regularly need can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine because without  it  you are adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.



Fixed.
 
2013-03-11 12:53:43 PM  

Surool: dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.

Consider that the same households have people spending more time going to the bathroom

jacking off each day, and that "statistic" is worthless. "OH MY GOD! Going to the bathroom jacking off costs the economy eleventy zillion dollars per day!"


That's why this country is screwed.
 
2013-03-11 12:54:47 PM  
Time should be based on your exact longitude at any given moment. That way we could put office workers on conveyor belts that started moving west at the end of the day to buy a few more second of productivity. It would also stimulate urban planning through the necessary re-zoning for the 10 mile long cube runways.
 
2013-03-11 12:55:43 PM  

HelloNeuman: A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.


That word if apparently medical-speak for "severe case of living in northeast Ohio," which does indeed make the productivity loss make sense.
 
2013-03-11 01:03:41 PM  

1. Put snakes on plane: Great_Milenko: That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour. $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.

Some of us actually have utility around the clock. Must suck to be you.


My clocks automatically switch at the time changes.  Must suck to be you.
 
2013-03-11 01:05:15 PM  

Burr: SuperChuck: You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?

"Small" kids, no. Older kids, yeah.

When I was in Middle School/HS (so, starting around 6th grade, which would have made me around 11-12) I was the first one on the bus.  Our school day started at 7:20 I believe, and I had an hour long bus ride, so that means that I was on the bust by at least 6:15....

/of course, I was a farm kid, so I was used to early mornings


This.  I was always told that DST for started for farmers and other industries so that they could have a more productive work day.

On the farm you are up before sunrise and working when it's light, regardless of what the clock says.
 
2013-03-11 01:06:42 PM  

Headso: I like the time as it is now, where it is light out later... it probably seems pointless to the very southern states but trust me, up in the north it is dark when you get out of work and it is a bummer...


It's light at the same relative time regardless of what the clock says.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:17 PM  
Still not sure why changing the clock is necessary AT ALL in a 24 hour society.  It doesn't matter if your personal clocks are automatic or sundials.  Why, in a world where things run for 3 shifts, are we changing our CLOCKS and not simply leaving it up to businesses and organizations to change thier hours of operation based on what best serves their needs?

Don't want your kids out in the dark hours?  Get the school board to change the hours in your area.  Want to take advantage of that extra hour of daylight that you normally sleep through because it's what you are accustomed to?  SET YOUR CLOCK EARLIER.  Playing games with what everyone in the area calls a particular hour of the day is foolish.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:38 PM  

over_and_done: HelloNeuman: A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.

That word if apparently medical-speak for "severe case of living in northeast Ohio," which does indeed make the productivity loss make sense.


Also seen with the Rhinotillexmania  spelling. More relevant to the orifice that the picking involves than the study locale. I'll grant you the mining behavior of this type done in NE Ohio is often a direct result of living in NE Ohio. What else is there to do?
 
2013-03-11 01:12:54 PM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
Hi Everybody!  Whats all the fuss about?
 
2013-03-11 01:12:58 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"
 
2013-03-11 01:17:49 PM  
A bunch of people are on Fark...complaining about lost productivity...in the middle of a business day in the US where most Fark members are from...and they're being serious..

I'd act surprised...but today isn't my first day browsing Fark.
 
2013-03-11 01:21:34 PM  

evaned: JackieRabbit: Those of us who live close to the western edge of a time zone particularly hate DST. I'm only about 50 miles from the western edge of the eastern zone and right now, the sun doesn't rise until after 8am. Around the summer solstice, there will still be light in the sky at 10pm. How's that for screwing up your circadian rhythms?

Where I'm at now, I'd <i>love</i> to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm. Watching the sun set from my office has always been depressing; kicking the hour forward a bit would be really nice. Sure, the sunrise would be around 8:30am then, but it's a lot nicer to leave for work when it's dark than it is to leave for dinner or home when it's dark.


We can't go to year-round DST. We tried that a few years back and it simply doesn't work. If the sun us setting so early, you must be rather far to the north, near the eastern edge of your zone, or both. One recommendation I have read is to follow India's example and revert to standard time and divide the country into only two time zones that differ by 1.5 hours. I'm not sure that would work either.
 
2013-03-11 01:21:47 PM  

DownDaRiver: MyKingdomForYourHorse: DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

Have a baby, that changes right fast

Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?


no...having a baby (or an older child, too) makes the time change that much more difficult. if they just got used to going to sleep at 7 and now 7 is 8 you might have meltdown.

/we pulled it off last night but we will see how tonight goes
 
2013-03-11 01:23:21 PM  

EViLTeW: A bunch of people are on Fark...complaining about lost productivity...in the middle of a business day in the US where most Fark members are from...and they're being serious..

I'd act surprised...but today isn't my first day browsing Fark.


Goofing off on Fark is optional... changing our clocks isn't.  And no, of course we're not taking our "change clock" time out of our Fark Time...
 
2013-03-11 01:26:02 PM  
If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

What issues should I be working on? Please tell me how to adjust my internal body clock effortlessly.

Where I'm at now, I'd love to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm.

Try it when the sun rises at 11 AM and sets at 2:30. It was a tradition when I was a student to eat the thanksgiving pot luck and then go watch the sun set from the building roof. Day light savings time all year would make the sun rise at noon. I don't think I could take that.

If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

It doesn't, it is the change in sleep habits that creates the cost. Therefore all the rest of your argument is invalid.

I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And because you are lucky enough to have a flexible internal clock no-one else shouldn't have trouble. Let me illustrate your logic here. I have no trouble with advanced physics and calculus, so I don't understand why you might not be able to do orbital mechanics in your head. What's the problem here? What's wrong with you? Or I can take 6 benadryl before getting drowsy, I can't understand people who get drowsy after only 1. They must be lazy.
 
2013-03-11 01:46:22 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Too bad no one was getting paid for that 5 minutes anyway, so it costs the US exactly zero dollars.
 
2013-03-11 01:59:02 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


It takes you 5 minutes to change a clock? hmmmm....

also, you can justify it by watching 1 less cat video on youtube.
 
2013-03-11 02:00:25 PM  

DownDaRiver: Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?


No, Im saying try having one. They tend to operate on defined regular schedules and when you mess with that schedule it can seriously fark you over for a few days while they get adjusted.
 
2013-03-11 02:19:56 PM  

stonicus: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"


I understand how it works. I don't understand how it can so radically affect a person's entire afternoon/day/week/whatever to the point where it's impacting their work. Also, I've undergone chemotherapy for acute non-Hodgkins Burkitt's lymphoma, and it affects the body significantly more than having to wake up an hour earlier.
 
2013-03-11 02:21:00 PM  

Gifted Many Few: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

I don't understand anal seepage. But if an employee came in late because of it, I would show him a little compassion.


Compassion for having to wake up an hour earlier? No thanks. That's part of life.
 
2013-03-11 02:29:33 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: On the farm you are up before sunrise and working when it's light, regardless of what the clock says.


Yep!  Dairy farmers have it worse, I know one dairy farm that milks at 3:00 am.
 
2013-03-11 02:36:34 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Consider this:

The US GDP in 2012 was just over $15 trillion.  A loss of $434 million is to that amount of money as the loss of $1 is to someone who makes about $34,500 per year.  So, not a lot.
 
2013-03-11 02:45:55 PM  

StrangeQ: Babwa Wawa:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

This is perfectly fine.  I don't give a fark if it is darker in the morning if I can still have some light when I get off from work.


I don't care which system is in use, just stop changing to the other one! Before Saturday sunrise was about 6:30 am, so the sky was getting light when I left for work and there was plenty of daylight after work too.

Now it is pitch black when I go to work (and yes the kids are in the dark waiting on the bus too) and it's now not dark until after 7:30 or so in the evening. By mid-summer it won't be dark until well after 8:00 pm; that's just wrong.
 
2013-03-11 02:47:40 PM  

Heamer: stonicus: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"

I understand how it works. I don't understand how it can so radically affect a person's entire afternoon/day/week/whatever to the point where it's impacting their work. Also, I've undergone chemotherapy for acute non-Hodgkins Burkitt's lymphoma, and it affects the body significantly more than having to wake up an hour earlier.


I don't understand how you cannot understand.
 
2013-03-11 02:52:39 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this...

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.



I thoroughly enjoy thumbnail scribbles like this one. It wouldn't stand up under scrutiny, but it was also never intended to.

I give you a series of rhythmic handclaps.
 
2013-03-11 02:55:10 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
Just adjust EVERY day, of course you would have to give up work entirely.
 
2013-03-11 02:56:34 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


Many employers must train new employees for their position, which costs time and/or money.  Even if they don't need to be trained you still spent time out of your day and/or money to interview people.  And you don't know if this new employee will also be late because of DST until months later... or maybe have even worse problems than being late once (twice?) a year.  Regardless, using your own example, without DST an individual would still have their job and the employer more time/money for something else.
 
2013-03-11 02:56:59 PM  
Work should start 2 hours after dawn and stop 2 hours before dusk.
 
2013-03-11 02:57:08 PM  

Babwa Wawa: - If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country. Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


Have kids start school an hour later and they would still get home before dark.
Prolly couldn't get that past the teachers union, it'd be messing with their feng shui.
 
2013-03-11 03:30:45 PM  
The only clock in my apartment that doesn't automatically update is my microwave and it never displays the right time anyway.
 
2013-03-11 03:40:05 PM  

spyderqueen: The only clock in my apartment that doesn't automatically update is my microwave and it never displays the right time anyway.


Pretty much the same here, I do have a clock that doesn`t change itself but it tells the wrong time for half the year.
 
2013-03-11 04:30:04 PM  
rocket SURGEONS?  we're getting so stupid we don't even know our own sayings.
 
2013-03-11 04:30:51 PM  

Great_Milenko: dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.

That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour.   $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.


Plus if it takes you five minutes just to set a clock, you probably weren't going to achieve any productivity in that time anyway.
 
2013-03-11 04:38:52 PM  
I just moved from Arizona (no DST) to Colorado (DST) and I have to say that having lived under both systems, this morning really, really sucked.
 
2013-03-11 04:40:16 PM  

dready zim: Work should start 2 hours after dawn and stop 2 hours before dusk.


That would suck if you lived in Alaska.
 
2013-03-11 04:44:23 PM  

hideous: rocket SURGEONS?  we're getting so stupid we don't even know our own sayings.


[notsureifserious.jpg]
 
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