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(Chmura Economics & Analytics)   Switching to Daylight Saving Time costs the American economy $434 million due to lost sleep, according to the rocket surgeons at the Institute For Pulling Statistics Out Of Our Asses   (sleepbetter.org ) divider line
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2308 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2013 at 10:15 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



162 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-03-11 09:06:02 AM  
Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.
 
2013-03-11 09:14:18 AM  
I'd imagine we lose at least twice that to people biatching about the time change on social media.
 
2013-03-11 09:14:25 AM  
What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back" (which makes sense because instead of losing an hour, we're gaining one). So, let's do this: we'll mandate that, for the next year or so, we'll "fall back" one more hour until the budget deficit is fixed. No need to get unreasonable about it...we can do one a week, for an economic gain of about $2 billion per month. $24 billion in a year, not too shabby. Yes, this will cause some havoc with people's schedules, but as Mr. Obama is so fond of saying, we've all got to sacrifice. We could even switch it up a bit and make the fallback 2 hours at a time, which would double our savings. We could be in a surplus situation in a couple of years.

And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

Hey, that's an idea...what if we could fall back enough to change past events? Like, maybe stop the recession before it happened? We could make a ton of money for the economy AND prevent economic collapse, so we'd be ahead on two fronts. I'm excited about this.
 
2013-03-11 09:17:39 AM  
Solid methodology: "increase in heart attacks, workplace injuries in the mining and construction sectors, and increased cyberloafing".

The first one is probably spread evenly all over but the second gives high scores to places like WV. Note that DC is -25.76% of the average. No mining and cyberloafing is already maxed out.
 
2013-03-11 09:22:48 AM  
I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.
 
2013-03-11 09:31:29 AM  
It could be one hour of lost sleep or one hour of awake time.
 
2013-03-11 09:36:00 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


School children still have to wait for the bus in the dark. This has always seemed like the dumbest reasoning to me. In the meantime millions of people have to walk or drive home from work in the dark because the sun goes down so early.
 
2013-03-11 09:36:38 AM  
Great explanation of DST:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84aWtseb2-4
 
2013-03-11 09:50:19 AM  
Pocket Ninja:
And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

You've brought up a good point: moving back and forth by hours isn't really any less arbitrary than moving back and forth by days. Days are just bigger than hours. But our deficit is big, so we've got to think big to solve it. Every second Saturday until football season starts, we should move the calendar back one day for "Daylight Savings Date". This will give us one extra productive day per week, which I estimate should be worth about $50 billion dollars. We can give the day back on Sunday morning, when we return to "Standard Date". This won't cost us anything, because no one does anything on Sunday anyway.
 
2013-03-11 10:07:15 AM  
I would think the extra coffee sales would make up for it, and what does all this have to do with The Time Cube anyways?
 
2013-03-11 10:16:48 AM  
Just imagine the loss if it happened during March Madness basketball.
 
2013-03-11 10:18:56 AM  
It's great for the IFPSOOA though.
 
2013-03-11 10:19:51 AM  

Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back"


Which is totally false. You ALSO lose money when people wake up too early, go back to sleep, and wind up being late.

It's an archaic system with no real reason for existing and no real reason to stick around.
 
2013-03-11 10:20:26 AM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour.   $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.
 
2013-03-11 10:21:19 AM  
Switching to Daylight Saving Time costs the American economy $434 million due to lost sleep, according to the rocket surgeons at the Institute For Pulling Statistics Out Of Our Asses  people who don't have to get up in the morning and go to work.

FTFY subby
 
2013-03-11 10:22:02 AM  
C'mon subby, those people need something to do when they aren't generating meaningless stats for gun control advocates.  They have a right to earn a living!
 
2013-03-11 10:22:36 AM  

dittybopper: If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.


People need to be upgrading. All my devices update automatically. I figure the up to date people like me offset the slackers that use obsolete technology.
 
2013-03-11 10:23:19 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


Countries without it get along fine. It's glorious to go a whole year in a place that doesn't mess with the clocks.
 
2013-03-11 10:23:35 AM  
Well given that I was late this morning because the change farked up my baby's schedule leading her to not sleep last night and in turn me not sleep I fully support abolishing this archaic and idiotic time change shiat.
 
2013-03-11 10:24:35 AM  
DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.
 
2013-03-11 10:25:36 AM  

Great_Milenko: That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour. $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.


Some of us actually have utility around the clock. Must suck to be you.
 
2013-03-11 10:25:57 AM  
I like the time as it is now, where it is light out later... it probably seems pointless to the very southern states but trust me, up in the north it is dark when you get out of work and it is a bummer...
 
2013-03-11 10:26:38 AM  

1. Put snakes on plane: Some of us actually have utility around the clock


The rest of us are on www.fark.com!
 
2013-03-11 10:27:02 AM  

stuhayes2010: Just imagine the loss if it happened during March Madness basketball.


We'd bankrupt the whole country!!! If you add in the time it takes to open cheap Chinese shiat that is inevitably packaged to waste at least 5 extra minutes of you life its a miracle we're not even MORE trillions of dollars in debt.
 
2013-03-11 10:28:18 AM  
Same guys who estimate the $ lost in wasted productivity due to fantasy football, final 4, world cup, etc?
 
2013-03-11 10:29:28 AM  
Babwa Wawa:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

This is perfectly fine.  I don't give a fark if it is darker in the morning if I can still have some light when I get off from work.
 
2013-03-11 10:30:24 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?
 
2013-03-11 10:31:32 AM  

Gifted Many Few: dittybopper: If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.

People need to be upgrading. All my devices update automatically. I figure the up to date people like me offset the slackers that use obsolete technology.


Do your wall clocks update automatically?  Alarm clocks?  What about your stove?  Hell, even my relatively new (2 years old) TV needs to be told when to change.

My stereo is probably older than you are.  Don't you think it's wasteful to get rid of things that still work simply because they aren't "new"?
 
2013-03-11 10:33:24 AM  

Begoggle: DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.


Every year, we read in the media that Benjamin Franklin first proposed DST. He did, of course, but the ill-educated media morons never say anything more about this, which tells me they know nothing of Franklin. Franklin was a master of the absurd argument and had keen and somewhat evil sense of humor. He would propose ridiculous things and support them with what first appear to be sound logic, but when taken on whole, become farcical. His proposal for DST was one of these. He never meant for it to be taken seriously. He was just farking with the stupid people of his day.
 
2013-03-11 10:35:25 AM  
I usually spend about 5 minutes a day picking my nose, so I had to give that up yesterday in order to change the clocks that didn't adjust automatically.  It was tough, but it did lead to extra good pickins today.
 
2013-03-11 10:35:29 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


FALSE



I've spent the last 8 years without DST. You are disingenuous and dead wrong besides.
 
2013-03-11 10:36:15 AM  

JackieRabbit: Begoggle: DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.

Every year, we read in the media that Benjamin Franklin first proposed DST. He did, of course, but the ill-educated media morons never say anything more about this, which tells me they know nothing of Franklin. Franklin was a master of the absurd argument and had keen and somewhat evil sense of humor. He would propose ridiculous things and support them with what first appear to be sound logic, but when taken on whole, become farcical. His proposal for DST was one of these. He never meant for it to be taken seriously. He was just farking with the stupid people of his day.


So I shouldn't have slept with all of those old ladies?
 
2013-03-11 10:36:20 AM  
I'm no brain rocket but I like the spring forward because my 1&3 year old kids sleep until 0700 for a couple of days.
 
2013-03-11 10:36:55 AM  

Pocket Ninja: "days" are just a human concept, anyway.


www.timecube.com
 
2013-03-11 10:37:22 AM  

dittybopper: Do your wall clocks update automatically?  Alarm clocks?  What about your stove?  Hell, even my relatively new (2 years old) TV needs to be told when to change.


Here are the list of clocks I have. DVR, alarm, cell phone, car stereo, computer. Other things that have clocks such as microwaves, stoves, or stereos I don't bother ever setting to begin with. I have no analog wall clocks.

dittybopper: Don't you think it's wasteful to get rid of things that still work simply because they aren't "new"?


No. I sell them to the less fortunate than me, then I go out and stimulate the economy by buying new. Its a win-win.
 
2013-03-11 10:38:42 AM  
I don't understand people who claim to lose an hour of sleep (excluding those who work Saturday night andSunday morning) at the beginning of DST.  It happens between Saturday and Sunday, the time when fewest people are working.  If you go to bed at your regular time Saturday night (which is typically not a fixed time like during workdays) and sleep your normal number of hours, it will be an hour later when you wake, with no reduction in sleep.  Then, on Sunday night, you go to bed at your regular time after being awake one hour less.  Both nights you get your regular amount of sleep, but the day in between has one fewer hour of being awake.  You have actually had an increase in sleep relative to your awake time.

Everyone's tired on Monday mornings.  DST is just a scape goat to blame it on this time of year.  I celebrate the lighter evenings and the sun not shining quite so early every morning.
 
2013-03-11 10:41:14 AM  

isawyou: I don't understand people who claim to lose an hour of sleep (excluding those who work Saturday night andSunday morning) at the beginning of DST.  It happens between Saturday and Sunday, the time when fewest people are working.  If you go to bed at your regular time Saturday night (which is typically not a fixed time like during workdays) and sleep your normal number of hours, it will be an hour later when you wake, with no reduction in sleep.  Then, on Sunday night, you go to bed at your regular time after being awake one hour less.  Both nights you get your regular amount of sleep, but the day in between has one fewer hour of being awake.  You have actually had an increase in sleep relative to your awake time.

Everyone's tired on Monday mornings.  DST is just a scape goat to blame it on this time of year.  I celebrate the lighter evenings and the sun not shining quite so early every morning.


Oh the beauty of youth.
 
2013-03-11 10:41:35 AM  
Well, I saved money because the bar closed an hour earlier.
 
2013-03-11 10:43:27 AM  
So someone owes me $1.38?
 
2013-03-11 10:43:35 AM  
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

And yet, despite our grand efforts to eradicate this plague, small children continue to wait for the bus in the dark all around the country.  The horror...  The horror...

DST has nothing to do with this.
 
2013-03-11 10:44:01 AM  

odinsposse: JackieRabbit: Begoggle: DST is stupid.
Get rid of it.

Every year, we read in the media that Benjamin Franklin first proposed DST. He did, of course, but the ill-educated media morons never say anything more about this, which tells me they know nothing of Franklin. Franklin was a master of the absurd argument and had keen and somewhat evil sense of humor. He would propose ridiculous things and support them with what first appear to be sound logic, but when taken on whole, become farcical. His proposal for DST was one of these. He never meant for it to be taken seriously. He was just farking with the stupid people of his day.

So I shouldn't have slept with all of those old ladies?


He proposed it to save on expensive candles. And, once I succeed in my ascention to mad scientist/supervillain, I will ensure that the switch to daylight savings time costs at least $434 million if the people can't make it to that number naturally.
 
2013-03-11 10:44:13 AM  

SuperChuck: You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?


"Small" kids, no. Older kids, yeah.

When I was in Middle School/HS (so, starting around 6th grade, which would have made me around 11-12) I was the first one on the bus.  Our school day started at 7:20 I believe, and I had an hour long bus ride, so that means that I was on the bust by at least 6:15....

/of course, I was a farm kid, so I was used to early mornings
 
2013-03-11 10:47:37 AM  

Gifted Many Few: dittybopper: If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.

People need to be upgrading. All my devices update automatically. I figure the up to date people like me offset the slackers that use obsolete technology.


Your stove and microwave update automatically? My thermostat also doesn't but I'm sure I could get one that does. Not worth the money though.
 
2013-03-11 10:48:35 AM  
Has Indiana weighed in yet?
We only started observing daylight savings time a few years ago.  It has really messed things up here.  I mean the whole concept of DST is like cutting a foot off of a blanket at the bottom and sewing it to the top top make it longer.
I liked it better when we were on the same time all year and had daylight much later.
 
2013-03-11 10:49:38 AM  

GalFriday: I liked it better when we were on the same time all year and had daylight much later.


My only complaint was that my TV shows would fluctuate their start time, but in the world of DVR and On Demand that matters jack shiat now
 
2013-03-11 10:50:40 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


I dunno, Arizona has handled it pretty well.
 
2013-03-11 10:50:57 AM  

debug: Your stove and microwave update automatically?


No, I covered that in my other post. There is no need to have clocks in every appliance. Every house should have three. One when waking up, one in living room and one in the car. Keep a cell phone handy if you need to know the time on a whim.
 
2013-03-11 10:52:52 AM  

lousyskater: Arizona has handled it pretty well.


There's a sentence you don't see every day.
 
2013-03-11 10:53:21 AM  
Three cars in the driveway, all have a different system for changing the time:

My wife's Yaris you hold the clock button down until the minutes start blinking, wait ten seconds then the hour starts blinking, push the button immediately to change the hour, wait ten more secs for the hour to stop blinking. My Accord has dedicated hour and minutes buttons, no problem there. My daughter's Civic only has a clock in the aftermarket stereo, I think you recite a spell in Olde Elvish and it might change the time, or not.
 
2013-03-11 10:54:30 AM  

Gifted Many Few: dittybopper: Do your wall clocks update automatically?  Alarm clocks?  What about your stove?  Hell, even my relatively new (2 years old) TV needs to be told when to change.

Here are the list of clocks I have. DVR, alarm, cell phone, car stereo, computer. Other things that have clocks such as microwaves, stoves, or stereos I don't bother ever setting to begin with. I have no analog wall clocks.


I do have analog wall clocks.  Know why?  Because they always work, don't depend on infrastructure beyond a single AA battery, and an analog clock face is a much better intuitive visual representation of time than a digital display.

Though I wouldn't mind a nixie-tube digital clock like the ones we had in the Army.

dittybopper: Don't you think it's wasteful to get rid of things that still work simply because they aren't "new"?

No. I sell them to the less fortunate than me, then I go out and stimulate the economy by buying new. Its a win-win.


Meh.  I prefer just to keep stuff until it loses its utility.  If I can't fix it, that is.
 
2013-03-11 10:55:00 AM  

jfivealive: I usually spend about 5 minutes a day picking my nose, so I had to give that up yesterday in order to change the clocks that didn't adjust automatically.  It was tough, but it did lead to extra good pickins today.


Fifty bucks more says he eats it...Man that kid'll eat anything.
 
2013-03-11 10:55:53 AM  

Gifted Many Few: debug: Your stove and microwave update automatically?

No, I covered that in my other post. There is no need to have clocks in every appliance. Every house should have three. One when waking up, one in living room and one in the car. Keep a cell phone handy watch on your wrist if you need to know the time on a whim.


FTFY.
 
2013-03-11 10:57:43 AM  
Can't we just cut to the chase and blame Obama for this mess?
 
2013-03-11 10:58:22 AM  
All the clocks I care about update automatically, except for 1.  I had to press 1 button twice and twist a knob to set my car clock.  Otherwise my computer, phone, alarm, computers all automatic.
 
2013-03-11 10:59:45 AM  
I was playing xbox when the "time changed." The system clock automatically updated and really messed with my head because I thought I dozed off for an hour mid game.
 
2013-03-11 11:00:10 AM  

3rdtimearound: Can't we just cut to the chase and blame

Obama Hitler for this mess?

FTFY!
 
2013-03-11 11:02:12 AM  
I had to change my stove and microwave, that took
 
2013-03-11 11:03:23 AM  

dittybopper: I do have analog wall clocks. Know why? Because they always work, don't depend on infrastructure beyond a single AA battery, and an analog clock face is a much better intuitive visual representation of time than a digital display


At least you will know the exact time the government came to take your guns.
 
2013-03-11 11:05:00 AM  
How many car accidents from trying to set the clock while eating and texting?
 
2013-03-11 11:05:58 AM  
All i know is the sun is up when I leave the office, and I like that.
 
2013-03-11 11:06:07 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: Pocket Ninja:
And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

You've brought up a good point: moving back and forth by hours isn't really any less arbitrary than moving back and forth by days. Days are just bigger than hours. But our deficit is big, so we've got to think big to solve it. Every second Saturday until football season starts, we should move the calendar back one day for "Daylight Savings Date". This will give us one extra productive day per week, which I estimate should be worth about $50 billion dollars. We can give the day back on Sunday morning, when we return to "Standard Date". This won't cost us anything, because no one does anything on Sunday anyway.


I like to go fishing on Sundays, you farking heathen!
 
2013-03-11 11:07:16 AM  

jfivealive: dittybopper: I do have analog wall clocks. Know why? Because they always work, don't depend on infrastructure beyond a single AA battery, and an analog clock face is a much better intuitive visual representation of time than a digital display

At least you will know the exact time the government came to take your guns.


They're confiscating flintlocks now?  Wow, it really *IS* worse than I thought.
 
2013-03-11 11:11:19 AM  
Yeah, this time change happens in the middle of the night during the weekend. If you can't adjust for an hour by the beginning of the day on Monday, getting rid of DST is the LEAST of your worries.

Really, this is nothing more than a  crutch for lazy people.
 
2013-03-11 11:12:12 AM  

choo: 3rdtimearound: Can't we just cut to the chase and blame Obama Hitler for this mess?

FTFY!


Sorry - but what did you change to my post?
 
2013-03-11 11:12:32 AM  
Unrelated:
I just got a new digital cable box because the old one died.
It doesn't have a clock and it's driving me crazy.
 
2013-03-11 11:17:02 AM  

Burr: SuperChuck: You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?

"Small" kids, no. Older kids, yeah.

When I was in Middle School/HS (so, starting around 6th grade, which would have made me around 11-12) I was the first one on the bus.  Our school day started at 7:20 I believe, and I had an hour long bus ride, so that means that I was on the bust by at least 6:15....

/of course, I was a farm kid, so I was used to early mornings


When I was a wee lad, the elementary kids got picked up first. 6:30 every morning at that stop. But finally we get to that last year. After this, we are in middle school. Bus doesn't come till 7:15! Hallelujah!

But you know what the farkin schoolboard did that year? The decided the littlest brats should her the later bus. So me and my class got the 6:30 crap all the way through!!
 
2013-03-11 11:20:43 AM  
I like to switch some clocks and leave the others, so that I can pretend I'm a time traveler on trips between different rooms.
 
2013-03-11 11:22:38 AM  
If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.
 
2013-03-11 11:24:57 AM  

doglover: FALSE


I've spent the last 8 years without DST. You are disingenuous and dead wrong besides.


Disingenuous?  What's disingenuous about outlining what the days would look like at the solstices?

Jesus.  Take a deep breath, buddy, OK?

DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.


So much this.
 
2013-03-11 11:25:30 AM  

Babwa Wawa: - If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country. Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.
 
2013-03-11 11:27:18 AM  

SuperChuck: You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?


Sure.  I've got two of them.  They're 8 and 10 years old, and I'm fine with them waiting for the bus in the dark.

When they were four, I would have had a problem with them standing by a busy road in the pitch dark.
 
2013-03-11 11:28:29 AM  

priapic_abandon: Three cars in the driveway, all have a different system for changing the time:

My wife's Yaris you hold the clock button down until the minutes start blinking, wait ten seconds then the hour starts blinking, push the button immediately to change the hour, wait ten more secs for the hour to stop blinking. My Accord has dedicated hour and minutes buttons, no problem there. My daughter's Civic only has a clock in the aftermarket stereo, I think you recite a spell in Olde Elvish and it might change the time, or not.


I never change the time on the clock in my car. It is permanently set to EST. Ditto on the wall clocks that I have to get a step-stool out to reach. Screw all that. I know what time it is.

Those of us who live close to the western edge of a time zone particularly hate DST. I'm only about 50 miles from the western edge of the eastern zone and right now, the sun doesn't rise until after 8am. Around the summer solstice, there will still be light in the sky at 10pm. How's that for screwing up your circadian rhythms?
 
2013-03-11 11:29:21 AM  

Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back" (which makes sense because instead of losing an hour, we're gaining one). So, let's do this: we'll mandate that, for the next year or so, we'll "fall back" one more hour until the budget deficit is fixed. No need to get unreasonable about it...we can do one a week, for an economic gain of about $2 billion per month. $24 billion in a year, not too shabby. Yes, this will cause some havoc with people's schedules, but as Mr. Obama is so fond of saying, we've all got to sacrifice. We could even switch it up a bit and make the fallback 2 hours at a time, which would double our savings. We could be in a surplus situation in a couple of years.

And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

Hey, that's an idea...what if we could fall back enough to change past events? Like, maybe stop the recession before it happened? We could make a ton of money for the economy AND prevent economic collapse, so we'd be ahead on two fronts. I'm excited about this.


I think I love you.
 
2013-03-11 11:29:39 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.


As I stated just after your post, plenty of kids stand around for the bus before dawn in the winter around here.  But not the really small kids.

An 8 year old kid or 17 year old "kid" standing in the dark for the bus is one thing.  A four or five year old kid is another entirely.
 
2013-03-11 11:33:21 AM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


BAN the POOPIN'!
 
2013-03-11 11:34:54 AM  

DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.


Have a baby, that changes right fast
 
2013-03-11 11:36:50 AM  

tricycleracer: Pocket Ninja: "days" are just a human concept, anyway.

[www.timecube.com image 528x359]


See, now I regret choosing "Cube Divinity" as my Fark handle. Thanks a lot.
 
2013-03-11 11:37:06 AM  

JackieRabbit: Those of us who live close to the western edge of a time zone particularly hate DST. I'm only about 50 miles from the western edge of the eastern zone and right now, the sun doesn't rise until after 8am. Around the summer solstice, there will still be light in the sky at 10pm. How's that for screwing up your circadian rhythms?


Where I'm at now, I'd <i>love</i> to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm. Watching the sun set from my office has always been depressing; kicking the hour forward a bit would be really nice. Sure, the sunrise would be around 8:30am then, but it's a lot nicer to leave for work when it's dark than it is to leave for dinner or home when it's dark.
 
2013-03-11 11:39:13 AM  

Babwa Wawa: AppleOptionEsc: What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.

As I stated just after your post, plenty of kids stand around for the bus before dawn in the winter around here.  But not the really small kids.

An 8 year old kid or 17 year old "kid" standing in the dark for the bus is one thing.  A four or five year old kid is another entirely.


Why?
 
2013-03-11 11:39:24 AM  

Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back" (which makes sense because instead of losing an hour, we're gaining one). So, let's do this: we'll mandate that, for the next year or so, we'll "fall back" one more hour until the budget deficit is fixed. No need to get unreasonable about it...we can do one a week, for an economic gain of about $2 billion per month. $24 billion in a year, not too shabby. Yes, this will cause some havoc with people's schedules, but as Mr. Obama is so fond of saying, we've all got to sacrifice. We could even switch it up a bit and make the fallback 2 hours at a time, which would double our savings. We could be in a surplus situation in a couple of years.

And before you start poo-pooing the idea, I know what the major critique is. Yes, when all is said and done, we'd be a day or two, maybe 3 or 4, behind ourselves. That's fine..."days" are just a human concept, anyway. And once the economy was fixed and there was no more need to fall back for money, we could start springing forward again, a little at a time, until we were back to "normal." It's similar to time travel, really.

Hey, that's an idea...what if we could fall back enough to change past events? Like, maybe stop the recession before it happened? We could make a ton of money for the economy AND prevent economic collapse, so we'd be ahead on two fronts. I'm excited about this.



Sorry, but the whole reason for the Bush recession was time travelers.
 
2013-03-11 11:40:22 AM  

Babwa Wawa: AppleOptionEsc: What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.

As I stated just after your post, plenty of kids stand around for the bus before dawn in the winter around here.  But not the really small kids.

An 8 year old kid or 17 year old "kid" standing in the dark for the bus is one thing.  A four or five year old kid is another entirely.


Yeah, our K-5 get picked up starting around 7:30 I think.  Grades 6 and over are earlier.

Our bus stop was at the end of our driveway though (maybe 100 ft from the house), so our mom would shove us out in the cold and watch us from the window when we were smaller.

A drivers license is a god send when you live in the country.  A 15 min drive to school vs an hour ride (plus making money driving people around since you were the first one in your grade to get your license was pretty sweet).
 
2013-03-11 11:43:02 AM  
Daylight Savings Time was fine when it was understood that we lived in a society that operated primarily from sun up to sun down.  However, we are currently operating in a 24 hour society.  I see this as no different than a person who sets his clock ahead 5 minutes so he won't be late- we're basically fooling ourselves by calling hours by different names.  You do not gain an hour of daylight- it's already there, as any third shifter can attest to.

The only reason I can see that Indiana went to Daylight Savings Time was because "everyone was doing it".  But, in my opinion, this is just an example of everyone doing something stupid and outdated because it makes them feel comfortable.
 
2013-03-11 11:44:19 AM  
this is most likely impossible and possibly stupid...but let's split the difference in the fall at 30 minutes and never f*cking do this sh*t again.
 
2013-03-11 11:47:20 AM  

Babwa Wawa: AppleOptionEsc: What backwards part of the US do you live in? Most bus routes start at 5:30 or 6. even if "daylight" starts at 7:15, you still have a buncha kids "sitting" in the dark. Unless you have those hippie 9-3 schools.

As I stated just after your post, plenty of kids stand around for the bus before dawn in the winter around here.  But not the really small kids.

An 8 year old kid or 17 year old "kid" standing in the dark for the bus is one thing.  A four or five year old kid is another entirely.


So, waiting for the bus in the dark:
Kindergarten: Bad
3rd Grade: OK

I think what you meant to say in your Boobies is "If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time) it would be farking ratarded and would just be the same as being in the GMT+4 time zone."
 
2013-03-11 11:50:01 AM  
If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

If it wasn't for DST, the sunrise in my area would be as early as 5:19.  A time when most folks are sleeping.  IMHO, the purpose of DST is most people will have more daylight when they're actually awake.
 
2013-03-11 11:50:23 AM  
Curse you filter!  I guess this is my punishment for arguing about DST...
 
2013-03-11 11:50:43 AM  
What's time to a Pig?
 
2013-03-11 11:51:33 AM  
Has anyone mentioned that Fark.com goes a long way in contributing to the non-productive factor?
 
2013-03-11 11:55:03 AM  
I change the clocks on friday so by monday I'm all caught up.
 
2013-03-11 11:57:13 AM  

busy chillin': this is most likely impossible and possibly stupid...but let's split the difference in the fall at 30 minutes and never f*cking do this sh*t again.


Venezuela is on GMT-4½ time.
 
2013-03-11 11:58:46 AM  

www.hometheaterhifi.com

 
2013-03-11 12:01:14 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I'm excited about this.


We could just skip a full day and save 365 times as much - that would put a dent in the deficit. Calendar makers and the lot would get to produce more in a given year helping the economy and their bottom line.  Everybody else would see all their business expenses drop by one day's worth of overhead for the year. That will free up a tremendous amount of capital for business reinvestment and expansion, add jobs, stimulate the economy, and directly generate increased taxation revenue. Once we realize that revenues have gone up, we can cut taxes because, after all, "it's the people's money," and that will FURTHER stimulate the economy. This is pure win-win-win.

Some would say we could never get that day back but someday, when times are good, we'll just add a day back into the calendar. In the meantime we'll just call it the Federal Day Deficit. Federal Day Deficits won't matter because we'll know we'll get it back later thanks to the improved economy which makes this small change a no brainer.
 
2013-03-11 12:01:56 PM  

Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.


We had DST when I was a child and when my sons were young and we all went to school on dark winter mornings. Making people change their sleep/waking patterns twice a year is is harder than learning to live with an hour of darkness for a few months. Little children aren't stupid or so delicate that they can't survive a dark morning.
 
2013-03-11 12:04:43 PM  

DiabloCanyonOne: busy chillin': this is most likely impossible and possibly stupid...but let's split the difference in the fall at 30 minutes and never f*cking do this sh*t again.

Venezuela is on GMT-4½ time.


India is that way as well...

And Nepal is like UTC +8.25
 
2013-03-11 12:06:40 PM  

GalFriday: Has Indiana weighed in yet?
We only started observing daylight savings time a few years ago.  It has really messed things up here.  I mean the whole concept of DST is like cutting a foot off of a blanket at the bottom and sewing it to the top top make it longer.
I liked it better when we were on the same time all year and had daylight much later.


The parts of Indiana on Central time have been observing DST since practically forever, putting us on the same time as the rest of the state for six months. Now, the rest of you have to join with our pain. I consider that a good compromise.

I'm sure I had a point when I started this post, but I'm sleepy.
 
2013-03-11 12:07:50 PM  
 
2013-03-11 12:09:24 PM  

Mija: Little children aren't stupid or so delicate that they can't survive a dark morning.


But they are likely to be eaten by a grue. Especially if they are adventurous.
 
2013-03-11 12:15:39 PM  

GalFriday: Has Indiana weighed in yet?
We only started observing daylight savings time a few years ago.  It has really messed things up here.  I mean the whole concept of DST is like cutting a foot off of a blanket at the bottom and sewing it to the top top make it longer.
I liked it better when we were on the same time all year and had daylight much later.


Good grief, if a time change messes up the farking state, I can't imagine what something that really matters does to your people.
 
2013-03-11 12:16:41 PM  
I be hatin on the DST

Stupid Washington Biureaucrats
 
2013-03-11 12:18:35 PM  

SuperChuck: Babwa Wawa: I get really tired of people who think that DST is somehow the most pressing problem facing this country.

Here's why we will never get rid of DST shifts:

-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

-  If we get rid of DST entirely, then you'll have daylight hours of 3:45a-7:30p in much of the country in the middle of the summer.  I'm hard pressed to figure out how 4:45a-8:30p is worse than that.

You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?


Hell, my 5 year old is late for kindergarten at 7:20 AM
 
2013-03-11 12:18:42 PM  
I lived in Indiana when they adopted DST.  After a few years, the public utility observed that, even though DST was supposed to reduce utility usage due to people being awake for more of the time the sun was up (or the sun being in the sky for more of the period people were awake), the increase in air conditioner usage far more than made up for the reduction in use of artificial lighting, and overall DST cost much more than it saved.
 
2013-03-11 12:19:06 PM  
If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.
 
2013-03-11 12:21:03 PM  
I was woken up at 8 am Sunday. Worked till 2:30 because of this time change bullshiat.
 
2013-03-11 12:24:11 PM  

Shazam999: Good grief, if a time change messes up the farking state, I can't imagine what something that really matters does to your people.


Sometimes its hard and we just need to lie down
 
2013-03-11 12:25:05 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


I don't understand anal seepage. But if an employee came in late because of it, I would show him a little compassion.
 
2013-03-11 12:25:35 PM  

doglover: Pocket Ninja: What I've just realized upon reading this is that, if "springing forward" costs the economy half a billion dollars, then the opposite must be true when we "fall back"

Which is totally false. You ALSO lose money when people wake up too early, go back to sleep, and wind up being late.

It's an archaic system with no real reason for existing and no real reason to stick around.


Spit out the hook, chief.
 
2013-03-11 12:27:44 PM  

Burr: DiabloCanyonOne: busy chillin': this is most likely impossible and possibly stupid...but let's split the difference in the fall at 30 minutes and never f*cking do this sh*t again.

Venezuela is on GMT-4½ time.

India is that way as well...

And Nepal is like UTC +8.25


so you're saying there's a chance?!?!?!
 
2013-03-11 12:31:07 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

Have a baby, that changes right fast


Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?
 
2013-03-11 12:32:09 PM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

If it wasn't for DST, the sunrise in my area would be as early as 5:19.  A time when most folks are sleeping.  IMHO, the purpose of DST is most people will have more daylight when they're actually awake.


Another example of why Fark needs a "Stupid" button.
 
2013-03-11 12:32:17 PM  

thornhill: Well, traffic accidents do actually increase the first Monday after the spring forward.


Traffic in Chicagoland was HORRIBLE today. People were seemingly driving into each other out of principle (even more than usual). Could be coincidence, but what you propose had occurred to me.
 
2013-03-11 12:35:58 PM  
A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.
 
2013-03-11 12:41:36 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Consider that the same households have people spending more time going to the bathroom each day, and that "statistic" is worthless. "OH MY GOD! Going to the bathroom costs the economy eleventy zillion dollars per day!"
 
2013-03-11 12:44:28 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.



assuming you dont have a self setting clock.. going up one digit is like 15 seconds not  300
 
2013-03-11 12:49:59 PM  

DownDaRiver: If you regularly need can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine because without  it  you are adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.



Fixed.
 
2013-03-11 12:53:43 PM  

Surool: dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.

Consider that the same households have people spending more time going to the bathroom

jacking off each day, and that "statistic" is worthless. "OH MY GOD! Going to the bathroom jacking off costs the economy eleventy zillion dollars per day!"


That's why this country is screwed.
 
2013-03-11 12:54:47 PM  
Time should be based on your exact longitude at any given moment. That way we could put office workers on conveyor belts that started moving west at the end of the day to buy a few more second of productivity. It would also stimulate urban planning through the necessary re-zoning for the 10 mile long cube runways.
 
2013-03-11 12:55:43 PM  

HelloNeuman: A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.


That word if apparently medical-speak for "severe case of living in northeast Ohio," which does indeed make the productivity loss make sense.
 
2013-03-11 01:03:41 PM  

1. Put snakes on plane: Great_Milenko: That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour. $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.

Some of us actually have utility around the clock. Must suck to be you.


My clocks automatically switch at the time changes.  Must suck to be you.
 
2013-03-11 01:05:15 PM  

Burr: SuperChuck: You don't think there are any kids out waiting for the bus before 7:15am?

"Small" kids, no. Older kids, yeah.

When I was in Middle School/HS (so, starting around 6th grade, which would have made me around 11-12) I was the first one on the bus.  Our school day started at 7:20 I believe, and I had an hour long bus ride, so that means that I was on the bust by at least 6:15....

/of course, I was a farm kid, so I was used to early mornings


This.  I was always told that DST for started for farmers and other industries so that they could have a more productive work day.

On the farm you are up before sunrise and working when it's light, regardless of what the clock says.
 
2013-03-11 01:06:42 PM  

Headso: I like the time as it is now, where it is light out later... it probably seems pointless to the very southern states but trust me, up in the north it is dark when you get out of work and it is a bummer...


It's light at the same relative time regardless of what the clock says.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:17 PM  
Still not sure why changing the clock is necessary AT ALL in a 24 hour society.  It doesn't matter if your personal clocks are automatic or sundials.  Why, in a world where things run for 3 shifts, are we changing our CLOCKS and not simply leaving it up to businesses and organizations to change thier hours of operation based on what best serves their needs?

Don't want your kids out in the dark hours?  Get the school board to change the hours in your area.  Want to take advantage of that extra hour of daylight that you normally sleep through because it's what you are accustomed to?  SET YOUR CLOCK EARLIER.  Playing games with what everyone in the area calls a particular hour of the day is foolish.
 
2013-03-11 01:09:38 PM  

over_and_done: HelloNeuman: A Study at Universare Polytechnique in Albania has found that time lost due to uncontrollable and habitual Rinotillexmania resulted in a loss of productivity of $409 million in the U.S based on a study of workers in northeast Ohio in 2010.

That word if apparently medical-speak for "severe case of living in northeast Ohio," which does indeed make the productivity loss make sense.

Also seen with the Rhinotillexmania

 spelling. More relevant to the orifice that the picking involves than the study locale. I'll grant you the mining behavior of this type done in NE Ohio is often a direct result of living in NE Ohio. What else is there to do?
 
2013-03-11 01:12:54 PM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
Hi Everybody!  Whats all the fuss about?
 
2013-03-11 01:12:58 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"
 
2013-03-11 01:17:49 PM  
A bunch of people are on Fark...complaining about lost productivity...in the middle of a business day in the US where most Fark members are from...and they're being serious..

I'd act surprised...but today isn't my first day browsing Fark.
 
2013-03-11 01:21:34 PM  

evaned: JackieRabbit: Those of us who live close to the western edge of a time zone particularly hate DST. I'm only about 50 miles from the western edge of the eastern zone and right now, the sun doesn't rise until after 8am. Around the summer solstice, there will still be light in the sky at 10pm. How's that for screwing up your circadian rhythms?

Where I'm at now, I'd <i>love</i> to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm. Watching the sun set from my office has always been depressing; kicking the hour forward a bit would be really nice. Sure, the sunrise would be around 8:30am then, but it's a lot nicer to leave for work when it's dark than it is to leave for dinner or home when it's dark.


We can't go to year-round DST. We tried that a few years back and it simply doesn't work. If the sun us setting so early, you must be rather far to the north, near the eastern edge of your zone, or both. One recommendation I have read is to follow India's example and revert to standard time and divide the country into only two time zones that differ by 1.5 hours. I'm not sure that would work either.
 
2013-03-11 01:21:47 PM  

DownDaRiver: MyKingdomForYourHorse: DownDaRiver: If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

Have a baby, that changes right fast

Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?


no...having a baby (or an older child, too) makes the time change that much more difficult. if they just got used to going to sleep at 7 and now 7 is 8 you might have meltdown.

/we pulled it off last night but we will see how tonight goes
 
2013-03-11 01:23:21 PM  

EViLTeW: A bunch of people are on Fark...complaining about lost productivity...in the middle of a business day in the US where most Fark members are from...and they're being serious..

I'd act surprised...but today isn't my first day browsing Fark.


Goofing off on Fark is optional... changing our clocks isn't.  And no, of course we're not taking our "change clock" time out of our Fark Time...
 
2013-03-11 01:26:02 PM  
If you can't adjust, absorb a 1hr change in your routine without it adversly affecting your life in such a way that you are dangerous(safety wise) and less of a productive employee. Then you have a few other issues that you should be working on instead of spending time biatching about it.

What issues should I be working on? Please tell me how to adjust my internal body clock effortlessly.

Where I'm at now, I'd love to go to DST all year. On the winter solstice the sunset officially occurs slightly before 4:30pm and, according to the US Naval Observatory's definition, civil twilight ends at 4:58pm.

Try it when the sun rises at 11 AM and sets at 2:30. It was a tradition when I was a student to eat the thanksgiving pot luck and then go watch the sun set from the building roof. Day light savings time all year would make the sun rise at noon. I don't think I could take that.

If the switch to DST costs $, then logic dictates that "fall back" does the opposite.

It doesn't, it is the change in sleep habits that creates the cost. Therefore all the rest of your argument is invalid.

I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And because you are lucky enough to have a flexible internal clock no-one else shouldn't have trouble. Let me illustrate your logic here. I have no trouble with advanced physics and calculus, so I don't understand why you might not be able to do orbital mechanics in your head. What's the problem here? What's wrong with you? Or I can take 6 benadryl before getting drowsy, I can't understand people who get drowsy after only 1. They must be lazy.
 
2013-03-11 01:46:22 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Too bad no one was getting paid for that 5 minutes anyway, so it costs the US exactly zero dollars.
 
2013-03-11 01:59:02 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


It takes you 5 minutes to change a clock? hmmmm....

also, you can justify it by watching 1 less cat video on youtube.
 
2013-03-11 02:00:25 PM  

DownDaRiver: Are you comparing a life altering event of a baby to a twice a year event that affects 2hrs?


No, Im saying try having one. They tend to operate on defined regular schedules and when you mess with that schedule it can seriously fark you over for a few days while they get adjusted.
 
2013-03-11 02:19:56 PM  

stonicus: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"


I understand how it works. I don't understand how it can so radically affect a person's entire afternoon/day/week/whatever to the point where it's impacting their work. Also, I've undergone chemotherapy for acute non-Hodgkins Burkitt's lymphoma, and it affects the body significantly more than having to wake up an hour earlier.
 
2013-03-11 02:21:00 PM  

Gifted Many Few: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

I don't understand anal seepage. But if an employee came in late because of it, I would show him a little compassion.


Compassion for having to wake up an hour earlier? No thanks. That's part of life.
 
2013-03-11 02:29:33 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: On the farm you are up before sunrise and working when it's light, regardless of what the clock says.


Yep!  Dairy farmers have it worse, I know one dairy farm that milks at 3:00 am.
 
2013-03-11 02:36:34 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.


Consider this:

The US GDP in 2012 was just over $15 trillion.  A loss of $434 million is to that amount of money as the loss of $1 is to someone who makes about $34,500 per year.  So, not a lot.
 
2013-03-11 02:45:55 PM  

StrangeQ: Babwa Wawa:
-  If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country.  Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.

This is perfectly fine.  I don't give a fark if it is darker in the morning if I can still have some light when I get off from work.


I don't care which system is in use, just stop changing to the other one! Before Saturday sunrise was about 6:30 am, so the sky was getting light when I left for work and there was plenty of daylight after work too.

Now it is pitch black when I go to work (and yes the kids are in the dark waiting on the bus too) and it's now not dark until after 7:30 or so in the evening. By mid-summer it won't be dark until well after 8:00 pm; that's just wrong.
 
2013-03-11 02:47:40 PM  

Heamer: stonicus: Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.

And if you can't understand it, then just fark everyone else?  "I was late because I had chemo therapy".  "I don't understand how chemo therapy works, so, you're fired!"

I understand how it works. I don't understand how it can so radically affect a person's entire afternoon/day/week/whatever to the point where it's impacting their work. Also, I've undergone chemotherapy for acute non-Hodgkins Burkitt's lymphoma, and it affects the body significantly more than having to wake up an hour earlier.


I don't understand how you cannot understand.
 
2013-03-11 02:52:39 PM  

dittybopper: Consider this...

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.



I thoroughly enjoy thumbnail scribbles like this one. It wouldn't stand up under scrutiny, but it was also never intended to.

I give you a series of rhythmic handclaps.
 
2013-03-11 02:55:10 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
Just adjust EVERY day, of course you would have to give up work entirely.
 
2013-03-11 02:56:34 PM  

Heamer: If I were an employer, and an employee came into work late "because of daylight saving time", they would probably be fired on the spot. I simply do not understand how a one-hour time change affects people so radically.


Many employers must train new employees for their position, which costs time and/or money.  Even if they don't need to be trained you still spent time out of your day and/or money to interview people.  And you don't know if this new employee will also be late because of DST until months later... or maybe have even worse problems than being late once (twice?) a year.  Regardless, using your own example, without DST an individual would still have their job and the employer more time/money for something else.
 
2013-03-11 02:56:59 PM  
Work should start 2 hours after dawn and stop 2 hours before dusk.
 
2013-03-11 02:57:08 PM  

Babwa Wawa: - If we shift forward all year long (DST all the time), daylight hours will be 8:15a-5:30p in much of the country. Small children waiting for the bus in the dark isn't tenable.


Have kids start school an hour later and they would still get home before dark.
Prolly couldn't get that past the teachers union, it'd be messing with their feng shui.
 
2013-03-11 03:30:45 PM  
The only clock in my apartment that doesn't automatically update is my microwave and it never displays the right time anyway.
 
2013-03-11 03:40:05 PM  

spyderqueen: The only clock in my apartment that doesn't automatically update is my microwave and it never displays the right time anyway.


Pretty much the same here, I do have a clock that doesn`t change itself but it tells the wrong time for half the year.
 
2013-03-11 04:30:04 PM  
rocket SURGEONS?  we're getting so stupid we don't even know our own sayings.
 
2013-03-11 04:30:51 PM  

Great_Milenko: dittybopper: Consider this.

THere are about 115 million households in the US.  If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.  Divide that by 60, that's about 9.6 million hours.

The average yearly wage in the US is about $43,000.  If you figure a 40 hour work week, that's an average hourly wage of $20.67.

That means it costs the US about $396,923,077 in lost time just to change the clocks every year.

That would only make sense if they were all at work when they changed their clocks.

A year is made up of 8,760 hours (365x24), so using your "logic", the average salary amortized over the entire year is $4.91 per hour.   $47 million in imaginary "lost" productivity.

Of course, for someone like me who doesn't buy into the notion that your time off the clock is worth a plug nickel, the total lost productivity in daylight savings time is precisely zero.


Plus if it takes you five minutes just to set a clock, you probably weren't going to achieve any productivity in that time anyway.
 
2013-03-11 04:38:52 PM  
I just moved from Arizona (no DST) to Colorado (DST) and I have to say that having lived under both systems, this morning really, really sucked.
 
2013-03-11 04:40:16 PM  

dready zim: Work should start 2 hours after dawn and stop 2 hours before dusk.


That would suck if you lived in Alaska.
 
2013-03-11 04:44:23 PM  

hideous: rocket SURGEONS?  we're getting so stupid we don't even know our own sayings.


[notsureifserious.jpg]
 
2013-03-11 04:46:01 PM  

Gifted Many Few: dittybopper: If it takes each household on average 5 minutes to change all of their clocks, that's 575 million minutes.

People need to be upgrading. All my devices update automatically. I figure the up to date people like me offset the slackers that use obsolete technology.


The clock on the stove in the kitchen too?
 
2013-03-11 04:48:41 PM  

spyderqueen: The only clock in my apartment that doesn't automatically update is my microwave and it never displays the right time anyway.


The fact that our crappy power company and its monthly outtages make my clocks inaccurate year long... I've pretty much given up too.
 
2013-03-11 04:53:18 PM  

BunkoSquad: lousyskater: Arizona has handled it pretty well.

There's a sentence you don't see every day.


Arizona is like a stopped clock - right twice a day!
 
2013-03-11 04:57:18 PM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, this time change happens in the middle of the night during the weekend. If you can't adjust for an hour by the beginning of the day on Monday, getting rid of DST is the LEAST of your worries.

Really, this is nothing more than a  crutch for lazy people.


Thankfully we ALL work M-F, 9-5 right? Somehow I always end up working fall back, that 13.5 hour overnight shift is the worst. Even working "only" 11 hours the other night sucked, because I had one less hour to get my work done in.

DST is archaic bullshiat.
 
2013-03-11 05:06:40 PM  

Medic Zero: Mikey1969: Yeah, this time change happens in the middle of the night during the weekend. If you can't adjust for an hour by the beginning of the day on Monday, getting rid of DST is the LEAST of your worries.

Really, this is nothing more than a  crutch for lazy people.

Thankfully we ALL work M-F, 9-5 right? Somehow I always end up working fall back, that 13.5 hour overnight shift is the worst. Even working "only" 11 hours the other night sucked, because I had one less hour to get my work done in.

DST is archaic bullshiat.


Not enough people to "cost the country $434 million", sorry buddy.
 
2013-03-11 05:27:04 PM  

Mikey1969: Medic Zero: Mikey1969: Yeah, this time change happens in the middle of the night during the weekend. If you can't adjust for an hour by the beginning of the day on Monday, getting rid of DST is the LEAST of your worries.

Really, this is nothing more than a  crutch for lazy people.

Thankfully we ALL work M-F, 9-5 right? Somehow I always end up working fall back, that 13.5 hour overnight shift is the worst. Even working "only" 11 hours the other night sucked, because I had one less hour to get my work done in.

DST is archaic bullshiat.

Not enough people to "cost the country $434 million", sorry buddy.


Where did I say that they did? I think the stats in the story are BS, I'm just saying that we all don't work 9-5, and that it sucks as for those of us who aren't off all weekend to adjust. I will say that those of us that are at work during fall back all get an hour of overtime, and my employer paid me 12 hours for 11 hours of work for spring forward.
 
2013-03-11 05:47:17 PM  

Medic Zero: Mikey1969: Medic Zero: Mikey1969: Yeah, this time change happens in the middle of the night during the weekend. If you can't adjust for an hour by the beginning of the day on Monday, getting rid of DST is the LEAST of your worries.

Really, this is nothing more than a  crutch for lazy people.

Thankfully we ALL work M-F, 9-5 right? Somehow I always end up working fall back, that 13.5 hour overnight shift is the worst. Even working "only" 11 hours the other night sucked, because I had one less hour to get my work done in.

DST is archaic bullshiat.

Not enough people to "cost the country $434 million", sorry buddy.

Where did I say that they did? I think the stats in the story are BS, I'm just saying that we all don't work 9-5, and that it sucks as for those of us who aren't off all weekend to adjust. I will say that those of us that are at work during fall back all get an hour of overtime, and my employer paid me 12 hours for 11 hours of work for spring forward.


It's the stats that piss me off. 'Increased number of strokes', 'more drowsy drivers', '$X million in lost productivity', all that bullshiat, the people who DO work weekend graveyards and swings are about the only ones who should get bent other of shape over this. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

Personally, I don't mind it. I don't want the sun coming up at 5am and going down at 8pm, so I'm okay with the change. I understand people who work those shifts having issues though.
 
2013-03-11 06:08:33 PM  

TaskMan: Daylight Savings Time was fine when it was understood that we lived in a society that operated primarily from sun up to sun down.  However, we are currently operating in a 24 hour society.  I see this as no different than a person who sets his clock ahead 5 minutes so he won't be late- we're basically fooling ourselves by calling hours by different names.  You do not gain an hour of daylight- it's already there, as any third shifter can attest to.

The only reason I can see that Indiana went to Daylight Savings Time was because "everyone was doing it".  But, in my opinion, this is just an example of everyone doing something stupid and outdated because it makes them feel comfortable.


I work on third shift and I actually love DST since for the next month I will be going to sleep in the dark again. However, I think the entire concept is ridiculous. You have your work time, the sun is up for a portion of the day, adjusting it for some arbitrary reason seems pointless.

I will say that in the summer I feel that the sun never sets at I go to work in daylight, work in a bright facility, leave work in daylight, fall asleep in daylight, and wake up in... daylight!
 
2013-03-11 07:08:54 PM  
It's amusing how people think "losing" one hour one day a year is some sort of unacceptable cost to society. And it's a goddam weekend hour, so it doesn't even affect most people all that adversely in the ways people commonly biatch about (work or school).

I'm guessing it's nothing compared to money/productivity lost to drunks, junkies, lazy-asses, crazies and attention whores.

"Oh no, I have one less hour to wank/shoot up/drink myself into unconsciousness/sleep/fark around on Facebook/watch TV/scream at my kids/spouse/stalk my ex!"

They never complain about losing an hour of their community service or charity work. Or cleaning the bathroom. It's always about the sleep or work hour they're supposedly losing. On a weekend day. Most of this trouble they supposedly have adjusting is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They see other people biatching about the time change and feel compelled to add to the amen chorus of people who probably waste time every day doing stupid shiat but still feel they've been robbed of valuable time they would have spent doing something productive.

I like sleeping as much as anybody, but I just move the clock forward an hour and go on with my day. This isn't that hard.
 
2013-03-11 09:32:49 PM  
Did you know that every year when we "spring forward" into Daylight Savings Time, the economy looses $500,000,000 to people making up statistics for these timely articles?
 
2013-03-11 09:47:40 PM  
Just cut the difference.  Next time just adjust the clocks by 30 minutes and be done with daylight savings time.
 
2013-03-14 03:29:26 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing how people think "losing" one hour one day a year is some sort of unacceptable cost to society. And it's a goddam weekend hour, so it doesn't even affect most people all that adversely in the ways people commonly biatch about (work or school).

I'm guessing it's nothing compared to money/productivity lost to drunks, junkies, lazy-asses, crazies and attention whores.

"Oh no, I have one less hour to wank/shoot up/drink myself into unconsciousness/sleep/fark around on Facebook/watch TV/scream at my kids/spouse/stalk my ex!"

They never complain about losing an hour of their community service or charity work. Or cleaning the bathroom. It's always about the sleep or work hour they're supposedly losing. On a weekend day. Most of this trouble they supposedly have adjusting is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They see other people biatching about the time change and feel compelled to add to the amen chorus of people who probably waste time every day doing stupid shiat but still feel they've been robbed of valuable time they would have spent doing something productive.

I like sleeping as much as anybody, but I just move the clock forward an hour and go on with my day. This isn't that hard.


But I like to wank...
 
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