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(Fox News)   House Republicans, eager to prove that they're serious about passing a budget, include as the core component of their new proposal the repeal of Obamacare   (foxnews.com) divider line 278
    More: Fail, obamacare, Republican, repeal, balanced budgets, House Budget Committee, heart  
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2994 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Mar 2013 at 3:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-10 07:29:04 PM  

balloot: fuhfuhfuh: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

It was much better before Obamacare. You know, the time where in my personal experience, my premiums went up 200% in 3 years. Good times.

/Anecdote fight

My premiums went up 500% because of Obamacare and my employer fired me because Obama taxed the rich.  Also, my Papa Johns pizza is way too expensive and I can no longer afford to eat.  Luckily, I don't have to worry about any of this because a death panel has already sentenced me to execution.


Welcome to Canada! (I know that global warming has removed most of our winters, but the toque is one of our national symbols. You'll only be required to wear it if you're cast as an extra in a Molson beer commercial.)

/Scheduled to die May 17, 2044 of a massive heart attack, +/- 17 days, with a 6% chance of being shot by an angry husband.
//Is also scheduled to pay 93.72% of my income in income taxes, 6.31% in sales taxes, 11.98% in gasoline taxes, and 1.25% in property taxes after our Conservative government cuts our tax rates to a balmy 113.17%! PARTY TIME!
 
2013-03-10 07:29:09 PM  

themindiswatching: It really pisses them off that Obama will be forever known as the president who brought the US universal healthcare, doesn't it?


Based on everything else the GOP has done, the fact that they want to repeal it so badly is a sure sign that it's good for our country.
 
2013-03-10 07:32:12 PM  

trotsky: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

How is this the fault of the ACA when it hasn't kicked in yet?


Because there ain't no gratification unless it is instant gratification.
 
2013-03-10 07:35:28 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities.  They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings.  And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.

Maybe those hospitals could be better, if that's the case.


Some people forget that the efforts the staff made in repairing their body and instead focus on that damned iv pump that alarmed everytime they lowered the bed their bed on the their iv line during their stay at the Medical Motel.  Most forget they were not in a fancy hotel (dispite the best possible environment we provide them) and actually biatch about the service (food, television, interruptions by medical staff, being moved floor to floor between radiology, emergency room, ccu, etc).  We are not a hotel but that does not matter when the ratings come in.
 
2013-03-10 07:36:40 PM  

sdd2000: Virtual Pariah: Do we have the ability to recall some of the members of this Congress?

Yes every two years you get a chance


lolgerrymandering.jpg
 
2013-03-10 07:42:50 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities.  They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings.  And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.

Maybe those hospitals could be better, if that's the case.


Indeed.  People will complain if the floor in their room has blood on it, the sheets smell musty, or the room is dirty.  They won't usually complain about the care unless the care is lacking.

There is also the subset of humans that will complain about anything, because they want comps/bill nullification, or they are miserable SOBs.  This is unfortunate, but not exclusive to medical care.
 
2013-03-10 07:45:18 PM  
clowncar on fire:

The expensive Tylenol is urban legend- by requesting an itemized bill (most hospitals sell "packages" which are made up of several items expected to be used for a procedure and are sold at flat rate), you can contest individual items you did not use and have them removed from the bill.

So they automaticlaly bill for things they didn't use and cancel them by item IF they are contested in the correct way with the right paperwork by someone who understands the arcana of the system enough to both know the billing has to be checked by item and knows enough to identify what is a fake billed item that should be cancelled?

So outright fraudulent billing then? nice. If you or I did that we would go to farking jail.
 
2013-03-10 07:52:35 PM  

cchris_39: Reverend Monkeypants: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

It's weird, I was against it but as an employer my costs have gone down and Ive hired two additional staff members in the past year.

Boggling

'Boggling" mean "i'm a lying troll"?


Apparently it means that you are a shill and won't accept any data that doesn't correspond to your narrow world view.
 
2013-03-10 07:56:00 PM  

cchris_39: If the Senate and the President don't like the House budget, they should offer their own for us to take a look at.

While they're at it, all of them should probably take a remedial civics class.

Let me some it up for you:
The Senate ok's the budget.
The House ok's the money.
The President agrees to all of it.

/we invented video games to keep you off our lawns, so there!


Didn't the Senate do just that, last July?
 
2013-03-10 07:58:26 PM  

Duck_of_Doom: Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.


Nor should they.  I'm waiting for someone to bring up the hospital chargemaster scam.  While we are hating on insurance companies, the "non-profit" hospitals are price-gouging sick people.

My post-op overnight stay in the hospital was billed at $17,000.00.
The insurance "discount" was ($15,000.00) leaving a $2000.00 bill.
With a 90/10 split insurance paid 1800.00 and I paid $200.00.

My insurance, BC/BS, is the largest insurer in my area.  No hospital could stay in business if they were truly writing off 88% of their costs.  The only thing that makes sense is that the $17000.00 price tag is completely made up.   I'm guessing that the real cost of my 1 night stay was closer to the $2000.00.

Any poor slob trying to pay out of his HSA would have to pony-up the exorbitant $17000.00 charge.
 
2013-03-10 07:58:39 PM  
Both 'sides' do this type of shiat.  It's what politicians do.  They don't care about you.
 
2013-03-10 08:01:25 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Both 'sides' do this type of shiat.  It's what politicians do.  They don't care about you.


No they don't. Democrats absolutely have not passed the repeal of a Republican-enacted law 37 times with no hope of getting it through the Senate.
 
2013-03-10 08:07:34 PM  
LeoffDaGrate:
And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.

Companies have done this for decades.  Why hire a 2 full-timers when you can get 3 part-timers cheaper and avoid paying benefits.  More flexibility in arranging schedules, another person to cover if someone is sick or goes on vacation, etc.  The only negative is they might not find good people who will put up with that, and what workers are willing to put up with has been getting worse and worse since the late 70's.  It's almost like organizations that were designed to protect workers has lost power in that time.
 
2013-03-10 08:10:12 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: DeathByGeekSquad: Both 'sides' do this type of shiat.  It's what politicians do.  They don't care about you.

No they don't. Democrats absolutely have not passed the repeal of a Republican-enacted law 37 times with no hope of getting it through the Senate.


Can't they enact a rule that states the following: If you attempt to create a law with the same goal (wording need not be the same) as a previously failed attempt, and it fails 6 times per session, it cannot be attempted again for 365 calendar days.

This would cover Obamacare, gun control, abortion, tax increases, everything.  It would benefit both parties, and create beautiful amounts of gridlock.  Nothing would get done, but congresscritters may surprise us and be judicious in their pet projects.
 
2013-03-10 08:11:09 PM  
269 comments, down to 114, with just one shill taken care of.

I wonder how low I can get the post count to go?

/misses the days of worthwhile arguments on Fark.
// :(
 
2013-03-10 08:13:51 PM  

Fail in Human Form: amyldoanitrite: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.


I'm in Ohio, too. My insurance didn't increase for the first time in decades.  My benefits didn't decrease, either.

My personal experience indicates that you're wrong or lying.
 
2013-03-10 08:20:16 PM  

Testiclaw: 269 comments, down to 114, with just one shill taken care of.

I wonder how low I can get the post count to go?

/misses the days of worthwhile arguments on Fark.
// :(


Just by ignoring the one idiot that decided that he was going to take a dump on this thread I got it down to 128 myself...and Fark LOVES the shills, that's where they get their page views...
 
2013-03-10 08:22:26 PM  

clowncar on fire: Duck_of_Doom: clowncar on fire: Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.

This is a good point.  Can't blame Obamacare because the private insurance companies don't want to pay doctors.  And this has been in effect since before Obama came to office.  Case in point: my mother's cardiologist.  He left the practice he was in, and moved to somewhere that will pay better.  He left Fairfield County, CT (a.k.a. one of the richest counties in the US, and very high cost of living) because of their lacking payouts.  Granted his story has some Rich People's Problems seasoning, but it illustrates a trend with private insurances.  They dictate what they pay doctors, not the other way around.  If the doctor's office bills the insurance for $150, the insurance pays $45, take it or leave it.  Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

The problem is government insurance will pay a lower flat rate than private insurance and then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.  Should a patient complain about the care they received, good luck getting partial payment.

The expensive Tylenol is urban legend- by requesting an itemized bill (most hospitals sell "packages" which are made up of several items expected to be used for a procedure and are sold at flat rate), you can contest individual items you did not use and have them removed from the bill.




Urban legend? MD Cancer Center in Houston billed Sean Recchi of Lancaster, Ohio $1.50 for "1 ACETAMINOPHE TABS 325 MG" or in layman's terms, $1.50 for a single Tylenol. You can buy them off Amazon for $.08 a pill and that's without a hospital's purchasing power.

That is only one way hospitals overcharge their patients. How about $18 for a single Accu-Chek strip, that you can buy from Amazon for $.53 a strip? Or $3 for a "MARKER SKIN REG TIP RULER", or what you would call a "Sharpie". Yes, a patient was charged for an office supply.

Where did I read about these? Time Magazine: Why medical bills are killing us
 
2013-03-10 08:22:42 PM  

Graffito: Duck_of_Doom: Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

Nor should they.  I'm waiting for someone to bring up the hospital chargemaster scam.  While we are hating on insurance companies, the "non-profit" hospitals are price-gouging sick people.

My post-op overnight stay in the hospital was billed at $17,000.00.
The insurance "discount" was ($15,000.00) leaving a $2000.00 bill.
With a 90/10 split insurance paid 1800.00 and I paid $200.00.

My insurance, BC/BS, is the largest insurer in my area.  No hospital could stay in business if they were truly writing off 88% of their costs.  The only thing that makes sense is that the $17000.00 price tag is completely made up.   I'm guessing that the real cost of my 1 night stay was closer to the $2000.00.

Any poor slob trying to pay out of his HSA would have to pony-up the exorbitant $17000.00 charge.


No, you would pay the negotiated rate of $2000.

HSAs usually have a large deductible.  Around here (SW Ohio) $3000 deductibles tend to be fairly common.  In that case, you'd be responsible for the $2000 allowable, and still have $1000 remaining on your deductible for the year.

Also, regarding non-profit hospitals: the fact that they are non-profit does not mean they are benevolent angels.  Many of them are making lots of money, tax free.  If you'd like to peek at your local non-profit hospital's dirty laundry, look at their Form 990.  Here's a free site; the most recent available forms are from 2011:

http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

Take a look at Part VII - Compensation of Officers, Directors,Trustees, Key Employees, Highest Compensated Employees, and Independent Contractors

Part VIII is a breakdown of revenue.

Part IX lists expenses

Part X is the balance sheet.
 
2013-03-10 08:22:46 PM  

clowncar on fire: Duck_of_Doom: clowncar on fire: Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.

This is a good point.  Can't blame Obamacare because the private insurance companies don't want to pay doctors.  And this has been in effect since before Obama came to office.  Case in point: my mother's cardiologist.  He left the practice he was in, and moved to somewhere that will pay better.  He left Fairfield County, CT (a.k.a. one of the richest counties in the US, and very high cost of living) because of their lacking payouts.  Granted his story has some Rich People's Problems seasoning, but it illustrates a trend with private insurances.  They dictate what they pay doctors, not the other way around.  If the doctor's office bills the insurance for $150, the insurance pays $45, take it or leave it.  Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

The problem is government insurance will pay a lower flat rate than private insurance and then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.  Should a patient complain about the care they received, good luck getting partial payment.

The expensive Tylenol is urban legend- by requesting an itemized bill (most hospitals sell "packages" which are made up of several items expected to be used for a procedure and are sold at flat rate), you can contest individual items you did not use and have them removed from the bill.


The expensive Tylenol is not an urban legend.  Time Magazine a few weeks back had a very comprehensive article about the problems associated with healthcare billing in this country.  The central problem is that every hospital maintains a pricing structure called the chargemaster which details the prices for every single good or service offered by the hospital.  The problem is that the chargemaster bears little resemblence to reality and doesn't have a connection to the actual costs paid by the hospital for the services.  As a result, you end up with a $3.00 Tylenol when you can get a bottle of 100 for that price.  The chargemaster also tends to result in double or triple billing since you can be charged for the room costs of an operating room along with a tool kit used in the operation and a particular tool in that tool kit when everything should be included in the room costs.

Medicare solves this problem by setting fixed prices for procedures and goods (with the exception of durable medical equipment which still results in crazy overbilling) which actually correspond to the hospital costs plus a certain percentage profit, but private insurance and as a result consumers get screwed.  You get your EOB saying that your insurance saved you 30% but that's based off of an inflated price to begin with.  And if you have no insurance, you get a bill for thousands of dollars in medical-ease.  Yes, it's true that hospitals will negotiate, but how would someone know that and how would they even know where to begin if they can't decipher the coded entries on the itemized receipt.

The simplest solution would be to do away with the chargemaster concept and standardize hospital billing procedures using Medicare as a model.  If hospitals were required to abide by fair billing procedures then the whole system would work more effectively.  You'd have closer connection to your actual cost of care, fewer chargeoffs and bankruptcies from inability to pay, and improved cost containment.
 
2013-03-10 08:26:30 PM  

Parthenogenetic: No, you would pay the negotiated rate of $2000.


I don't think so.  Why would the hospital give the BC/BS rate to someone with an HSA?  Where does the $17000.00 charge come from in the first place?
 
2013-03-10 08:42:13 PM  
Obamacare ruined my life. I still work three same number of hours and my insurance went up 1% last year! My little sister in collage gets to be on my mom's insurance too, which is pretty terrible.

Oh, and my preventative care is covered by my premium now too!
 
2013-03-10 08:45:24 PM  
I love this, these guys don't even really represent the people.  Everyone remember http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/gop-memo-gerrymandering-ho u se-majority.php

that little bit of news?   These guys are a bunch of sore ass cheating scum bags.   I'm hoping that justice gets done and these fellows fall out of power asap.
 
2013-03-10 08:46:25 PM  

dustman81: Urban legend? MD Cancer Center in Houston billed Sean Recchi of Lancaster, Ohio $1.50 for "1 ACETAMINOPHE TABS 325 MG" or in layman's terms, $1.50 for a single Tylenol. You can buy them off Amazon for $.08 a pill and that's without a hospital's purchasing power.

That is only one way hospitals overcharge their patients. How about $18 for a single Accu-Chek strip, that you can buy from Amazon for $.53 a strip? Or $3 for a "MARKER SKIN REG TIP RULER", or what you would call a "Sharpie". Yes, a patient was charged for an office supply.

Where did I read about these? Time Magazine: Why medical bills are killing us


I don't need Time to tell me this is true. My own ER bill included $9 for 600mg of ibuprofen, which I could buy at Target for about 12 cents.
 
2013-03-10 08:51:57 PM  

Graffito: Parthenogenetic: No, you would pay the negotiated rate of $2000.

I don't think so.  Why would the hospital give the BC/BS rate to someone with an HSA?  Where does the $17000.00 charge come from in the first place?


You cannot create or contribute to an HSA without it being linked to a high-deductible health plan.  It is possible to have an HSA and not have health insurance, if you previously had an HDHPwith an HSA and then subsequently lost the health plan, but retained the accumulated savings in the HSA.

If that is the situation you were describing, yes you are indeed screwed.  However, most people with an HSA will also have the health insurance policy that is a prerequisite for its creation, and therefore are charged the rates that were negotiated between the provider and your insurer.
 
2013-03-10 08:53:24 PM  

clowncar on fire: LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right?  Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.  Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

It's all your fault you got raped!  Maybe if your skirts weren't so damned tight this would have never happened.

Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.  The older ones will facing retirement will either retire a bit earllier than planned or find a smaller clinic where they can avoid the heavier patient load.  Government regulation is requiring the use of systems like EPIC to maintain patient records in order to receive compensation for their services- the hospitals get to pick up the tab on this one or they won't be compensated for the additional madated patient load.
Good times ahead.


Yea most businesses close up shop when they are given 15-20% more customers.
Of course hospitals and doctors can refuse all insurance if they don't want to deal with the mandates.  My guess is that many hospitals in poor communities will spring up as their customers will now have insurance.
 
2013-03-10 08:56:55 PM  

dustman81: Urban legend? MD Cancer Center in Houston billed Sean Recchi of Lancaster, Ohio $1.50 for "1 ACETAMINOPHE TABS 325 MG" or in layman's terms, $1.50 for a single Tylenol. You can buy them off Amazon for $.08 a pill and that's without a hospital's purchasing power.

That is only one way hospitals overcharge their patients. How about $18 for a single Accu-Chek strip, that you can buy from Amazon for $.53 a strip? Or $3 for a "MARKER SKIN REG TIP RULER", or what you would call a "Sharpie". Yes, a patient was charged for an office supply.

Where did I read about these? Time Magazine: Why medical bills are killing us


I really liked the one they mentioned on Law and Order when the lead cop had cancer.  She's looking through her bill, sees a $10 charge for 'MRS', can't figure out what it is.  So she's goes looking through a novel length book of hospital acronyms and finds that it stands for 'mucus retainment system'.  Or in layman's terms, a box of kleenex.

Most legends have at least a grain of truth.
 
2013-03-10 09:00:51 PM  

clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities.  They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings.  And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.


So you're saying that government funding SHOULDN'T be tied to satisfactory service?
You also believe that tying school funding to student progress ratings is foolish, correct?
 
2013-03-10 09:07:38 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.


I love when they do that.

/likely troll is likely
 
2013-03-10 09:14:08 PM  

Job Creator: clowncar on fire: LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right?  Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.  Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

It's all your fault you got raped!  Maybe if your skirts weren't so damned tight this would have never happened.

Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.  The older ones will facing retirement will either retire a bit earllier than planned or find a smaller clinic where they can avoid the heavier patient load.  Government regulation is requiring the use of systems like EPIC to maintain patient records in order to receive compensation for their services- the hospitals get to pick up the tab on this one or they won't be compensated for the additional madated patient load.
Good times ahead.

Yea most businesses close up shop when they are given 15-20% more customers.
Of course hospitals and doctors can refuse all insurance if they don't want to deal with the mandates.  My guess is that many hospitals in poor communities will spring up as their customers will now have insurance.


The patients in that extra 15-20% may not improve the bottom line, if they have insurance that pays lower than the average of your practice's current payor mix.  Even if the reimbursement covers the cost of taking care of the new patients (it may not, for Medicaid), you may be diluting your practice with patients who have low-paying insurance, who crowd out patients with higher-paying commercial insurance, sort of like those stories of small businesses who take a hit because of a massive surge of Groupon customers.

I know, I know... I'll just pre-emptively comment, "Anyone who's stupid enough to see a doctor who cares about money deserves the shiatty treatment they get from that greedy SOB.  I long for the day when those bloodsuckers are either Go Galt, are forced to work for scale, or are replaced by the finest doctors in the world imported from Cuba, who will be grateful to take their jobs for one tenth the pay."
 
2013-03-10 09:15:09 PM  

LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right?  Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.  Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?


Actually, I can attest to it. The part time thing is completely accurate. My employer put in a requirement that all non-management employees are prohibited from earning more than 27.95 hours to keep healthcare costs down. Any employee who does go over risks being terminated as well as the manager who did it.

http://www.kitchencollection.com/   my employer

http://www.nacco.com/   owning company of my employer


It is EXACTLY because of the healthcare bill. I do qualify for Medicaid vouchers on January 1st, so it's not unfair to me. The law is a good one, and I approve of the first step towards a comprehensive reform, but the actions are being felt (I was allowed up to 32 before the ACA became law). I blame corporate bootlickers.
 
2013-03-10 09:19:52 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Job Creator: clowncar on fire: LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right?  Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.  Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

It's all your fault you got raped!  Maybe if your skirts weren't so damned tight this would have never happened.

Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.  The older ones will facing retirement will either retire a bit earllier than planned or find a smaller clinic where they can avoid the heavier patient load.  Government regulation is requiring the use of systems like EPIC to maintain patient records in order to receive compensation for their services- the hospitals get to pick up the tab on this one or they won't be compensated for the additional madated patient load.
Good times ahead.

Yea most businesses close up shop when they are given 15-20% more customers.
Of course hospitals and doctors can refuse all insurance if they don't want to deal with the mandates.  My guess is that many hospitals in poor communities will spring up as their customers will now have insurance.

The patients in that extra 15-20% may not improve the bottom line, if they have ...


So health providers will have to innovate to make that new subset profitable.  Like we're always told capitalism works.  Urgent care clinics, nurse practitioners, and doctor's assistants can all do 98% of the routine work that doctors now do, at a fraction of the cost and at 99.9% of the quality.  Of course the AMA wants the status quo of a limited number of providers at high rates, but that shouldn't matter when considering the health care of the country.
 
2013-03-10 09:22:33 PM  

GoodyearPimp: Fail in Human Form: how much more should I be willing give up for another's benefit?

Answer: "Look to the Bible".


Hahha, pimp slapped by GoodyearPimp
 
2013-03-10 09:24:21 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care".  I was wrong.  All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines.  The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right?  Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful.  Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases.  Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

Actually, I can attest to it. The part time thing is completely accurate. My employer put in a requirement that all non-management employees are prohibited from earning more than 27.95 hours to keep healthcare costs down. Any employee who does go over risks being terminated as well as the manager who did it.

http://www.kitchencollection.com/   my employer

http://www.nacco.com/   owning company of my employer


It is EXACTLY because of the healthcare bill. I do qualify for Medicaid vouchers on January 1st, so it's not unfair to me. The law is a good one, and I approve of the first step towards a comprehensive reform, but the actions are being felt (I was allowed up to 32 before the ACA became law). I blame corporate bootlickers.


I'm sure those edicts will do wonders for employee morale and in turn, customer service.  I'll be boycotting Kitchen Collection preemptively.  No offense, you seem like a decent person.

/because all of these greedy employers have been giving employees more hours than they need out of the goodness of their hearts until now
//thanks a lot O'Bareefer Fartbama!
 
2013-03-10 09:29:42 PM  
Job Creator:
I'm sure those edicts will do wonders for employee morale and in turn, customer service.  I'll be boycotting Kitchen Collection preemptively.  No offense, you seem like a decent person.

/because all of these greedy employers have been giving employees more hours than they need out of the goodness of their hearts until now
//thanks a lot O'Bareefer Fartbama!


Boycott NACCO. The company does a lot of consumer manufacturing, and their biggest customer shall be referred to as "RetailFranchiseBasedOutofBentonvilleArkansas" to keep things hush-hush. I don't think it's my level of corporate that's the problem, it's the ever present downward pressure from higher up.

And thank you.
 
2013-03-10 09:33:13 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: DeathByGeekSquad: Both 'sides' do this type of shiat.  It's what politicians do.  They don't care about you.

No they don't. Democrats absolutely have not passed the repeal of a Republican-enacted law 37 times with no hope of getting it through the Senate.


I was focusing on the whole 'sliding unrelated matters into the discussion to cause roadblocks'.

This can come about as slipping random shiat into time-sensitive proposals so when 'the other side' opposes that specific element, they can point their fingers and say that their holding up the time-sensitive proposal.  This has happened with aid packages after disasters, and with things like getting body armor for the troops.
 
2013-03-10 09:48:53 PM  
Diglett Dig, Diglett Dig, Trio Trio Trio.
 
2013-03-10 09:53:47 PM  
Shorter Paul Ryan: "Guys, I'm still here! Remember me?"
 
2013-03-10 09:55:04 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.


Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
 
2013-03-10 10:26:54 PM  
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results
 
2013-03-10 10:49:53 PM  

dennysgod: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results


Actually the coach used to call that practice.
 
2013-03-10 10:54:02 PM  

jst3p: dennysgod: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results

Actually the coach used to call that practice.


Protip:  Coach was insane.  Unless different results were forthcoming.  That's the trick.
 
2013-03-10 10:54:40 PM  

Fail in Human Form: cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

So, again, wait until the exchanges go in.

Also, Ohio must suck. I pay $44 a month for myself.

Honestly, I don't see it improving much with the exchanges but I hope I'm proved wrong.  I understand it has helped some people but here's my question.  When you look at it from my perspective (and those I know personally), and very tight budget, how much more should I be willing give up for another's benefit?  I don't say that as an evil "screw'em all" conservative.  I'm honestly asking.


You understand that how insurance always works? If it's government mandated or not.

Funny how you use "Obamacare" which most anti-Obama right wingers use.
 
2013-03-10 11:00:48 PM  
global.fncstatic.com

Cue Infinite Face-Punching Machine.
 
2013-03-10 11:03:52 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: WALLACE: Are you saying that as part of your budget you would repeal - you assume the repeal of Obamacare?

RYAN: Yes.

WALLACE:  Well that's not going to happen.


When even Fox News doesn't swallow your load, you have a losing hand.


Oh, boy.  Someone is going to read Wallace the riot act.  He's not supposed to think for himself like that!
 
2013-03-10 11:05:01 PM  

Corvus: Fail in Human Form: cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

So, again, wait until the exchanges go in.

Also, Ohio must suck. I pay $44 a month for myself.

Honestly, I don't see it improving much with the exchanges but I hope I'm proved wrong.  I understand it has helped some people but here's my question.  When you look at it from my perspective (and those I know personally), and very tight budget, how much more should I be willing give up for another's benefit?  I don't say that as an evil "screw'em all" conservative.  I'm honestly asking.

You understand that how insurance always works? If it's government mandated or not.

Funny how you use "Obamacare" which most anti-Obama right wingers use.


It's just what I hear most people call it.  On a side note, I'm starting to remember why I read this site less frequently.  It's supposed to be a discussion forum.  There was maybe a handful of people posting an actual discussion, thanks for the tip about their marketing costs, the rest of this thread was just idiots trying to be funny or insults.
 
2013-03-10 11:09:23 PM  
preview.turbosquid.com
 
2013-03-10 11:19:33 PM  
So much for that "both sides are the same" bullshiat.  Again.
 
2013-03-10 11:33:42 PM  
Looks like republicans are trying to redefine insanity

From "Doing the same thing and expecting different results" to "Just be a member of the GOP"
 
2013-03-10 11:59:56 PM  

Job Creator: clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities.  They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings.  And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.

So you're saying that government funding SHOULDN'T be tied to satisfactory service?
You also believe that tying school funding to student progress ratings is foolish, correct?


Hospitals provide the service of making people better- and are not intended to be a vacation resort. The question should be: did the hospital achieve this objective, did they fix what was broken?  You ask anyone stuck on their back for a week being directed to keep the TV turned down so as to not bother the other patients, requesting that they don't smoke, get up and wander around, put up with staff poking and prodding for fluids and vitals several times a day but not having a private nurse at your beck and call every time ennui sets in, or any other hospital unpleasantry to write a review, you don't expect to get high marks.

I understand that this is part of a drive to get hospitals to improve the over all hospital expirience.  The problem is, the government pays a very low flat rate- which the hospital is under obligation to accept-- and then proceeds to chip away at it by asking miserable people how that hospital expirience was.  That is wrong.  You rate hospitals based on the performance of a task such as properly removing a kidney stone or ablating a uterus, not how that after dinner mousse was.
 
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