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(LA Weekly)   Wells Fargo kills a man in court   (laweekly.com) divider line 188
    More: Scary, Wells Fargo, Hermosa Beach, Larry Delassus, real estate taxes, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Comptroller of the Currency, Wachovia, Anthony Trujillo  
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23324 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-10 08:49:19 AM  
This is civilized nations hang bankers who get out of line.
 
2013-03-10 09:24:01 AM  
And they did it just to watch a man die.
 
2013-03-10 09:41:19 AM  
This is a bank that's too big to fail.

They're certainly to big to be held accountable for ANY of their actions.

Even laundering drug money and funding the Iranian nuke program is OK, since the fines won't hurt anyone's bonus.
 
2013-03-10 09:42:04 AM  
What can we do to kill Wells Fargo?
 
2013-03-10 09:47:37 AM  
Just keep voting in the same group of crooks who let the banking industry commit this level of crime - then walk away from the carnage and (in this case) death with no blood on their collective hands.

 /Ameritards .... classic
 
2013-03-10 09:49:42 AM  
I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.
 
2013-03-10 09:50:26 AM  
so WF did it with telepathy?
 
2013-03-10 09:50:35 AM  
We're only five posts in, here. People will defend Wells Fargo in this thread - I'm calling it now.
 
2013-03-10 09:55:27 AM  
I can't hate on WF too much, they gave me 3.5% over 30 years.
 
2013-03-10 09:56:04 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


No, sorry, I would have done the same thing in order to get the matter escalated quickly so it could be resolved. This story is what is wrong with our system and it's a God damn shame that shiat like this happens. What is worse is, this will not trigger any sort of national reaction, which it farking should, because everyone is busy concerning themselves a dog who fell into the ice, that it snowed again in the NE (shocker), or some retard walked into a lion cage and was eaten...
 
2013-03-10 09:56:15 AM  
i doubt anyone at WF will be jailed, fined or fired for their actions. maybe some day this type of thing will happen to someone who is dear to a Charles Bronson Death Wish kind of guy and the shiat will hit the fan.
 
2013-03-10 09:56:20 AM  

jso2897: We're only five posts in, here. People will defend Wells Fargo in this thread - I'm calling it now.


You're two posts too late. The fellators have arrived.
 
2013-03-10 09:57:05 AM  
And this is why every time I get a little extra money together, I make an extra payment to these f*cks. I never asked to do business with WF. My lender sold my mortgage to them. Now all I can do is pay off the balance as fast as possible to minimize the interest they are making off of me.
 
2013-03-10 09:57:10 AM  
i will defend Wells Fargo, as they have NEVER stolen money from my bank account
unlike lets say, the shoebox under my bed
 
2013-03-10 09:57:59 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


I guess you skipped over the part where the guy was living on a fixed income and couldn't afford to pay the doubled mortgage payment.  Or are you suggesting he should have just sent in his usual payment?  Because that wouldn't have stopped them from foreclosing.  If it's not paid in full it might as well not be paid at all as far as banks are concerned.
 
2013-03-10 09:58:24 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposm



could you afford a doubling of your mortgage/rent?  Most people could not, and mortgage companies refuse to take partial payments.

And why does it take freaking years and years to get even the most simple and obvious cases through the courts?
 
2013-03-10 09:59:39 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


Yeah, I mean, when I get a bill that's bullshiat, I only pay what I think I owe, and not the disputed charges. It's a bit unreasonable to just stop paying completely.
 
2013-03-10 10:00:25 AM  
I'm going to assume that everyone knows how stupid it is to suggest that the actions of Wells Fargo killed this guy. The article even says that he had a rare blood clot disease, which the medical examiner says led to his death... so...
 
2013-03-10 10:00:25 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: i will defend Wells Fargo, as they have NEVER stolen money from my bank account
unlike lets say, the shoebox under my bed


So by that logic if your doctor sexually molested a bunch of people while under anesthesia you'd defend him because he's never done it to you?
 
2013-03-10 10:01:32 AM  

Riche: A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposm


could you afford a doubling of your mortgage/rent?  Most people could not, and mortgage companies refuse to take partial payments.

And why does it take freaking years and years to get even the most simple and obvious cases through the courts?


Because this usually happens to people who aren't familiar with the kind of public outrage that can be generated by getting on the internet immediately and sending a company's PR department into a panic.
 
2013-03-10 10:02:09 AM  

Neondistraction: Jon iz teh kewl: i will defend Wells Fargo, as they have NEVER stolen money from my bank account
unlike lets say, the shoebox under my bed

So by that logic if your doctor sexually molested a bunch of people while under anesthesia you'd defend him because he's never done it to you?


yeah cause i did nothing to deserve it
 
2013-03-10 10:02:47 AM  
Any time a corporation like Wells Fargo does something this stupid, the law should require the corporation to take any settlement first out of the pay of all top executives. Screw up really badly, and the executives don't get paid (and face jail time).
 
2013-03-10 10:05:17 AM  
It seems we see things like this time and time again. There is an unexpected big change in the mortgage or loan payment amount. So what is the first thing a lot of people do? Stop paying completely.

So even if they get the error corrected, they are still behind on their payments. And they wonder why the bank is not bending over backwards to make things right for them.
 
2013-03-10 10:06:09 AM  
what i can't understand is why the judge indicated that she was siding with Wells Fargo????
 
2013-03-10 10:06:51 AM  

jso2897: We're only five posts in, here. People will defend Wells Fargo in this thread - I'm calling it now.


They already are...

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


They doubled his payment to $2600 (roughly).  His income (disabled pension) was $1600.  He was able to keep up for a few months until the extra $1000/month ate his savings completely away.  Just what could he do to keep paying it at that point? (although he probably should have kept paying the original amount to show good faith - not that the bank would care (nor the courts apparently))  If you can't work, how long can YOU go with your savings taking a $1k/month hit?

I can see nothing being done to anyone at the bank, something should be done but I can see why nothing will.  The judge though needs to be taken out & shot for deciding that she was going to rule in the banks favor over this whole fiasco.  This man did nothing wrong (apart from believing his lawyer neighbor that he (the neighbor) could handle things - he really needed a real estate lawyer) & believed that the courts would side with him once the facts came out.  The system let him down & ultimately killed him.

If the banks & the courts keep making people with nothing left to lose, it shouldn't surprise people when another Christopher Dorner comes along.  They are in the process of creating lots of them with their actions & lack of accountability.
 
2013-03-10 10:09:39 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Neondistraction: Jon iz teh kewl: i will defend Wells Fargo, as they have NEVER stolen money from my bank account
unlike lets say, the shoebox under my bed

So by that logic if your doctor sexually molested a bunch of people while under anesthesia you'd defend him because he's never done it to you?

yeah cause i did nothing to deserve it


So you're implying that this guy did something to deserve Wells Fargo mistakenly doubling his mortgage payment?  Did he touch you in your sleep or something?
 
2013-03-10 10:10:15 AM  

AJisaff: what i can't understand is why the judge indicated that she was siding with Wells Fargo????


what if he made.
1 million dollars?

images.wikia.com
 
2013-03-10 10:10:47 AM  
The solution to this problem is that, every time a bank wrongfully forecloses, select, at random, one executive per $1,000 value of the property in question and execute them. When one runs out of executives, start executing managers. Some idiot bleeding-hearts might complain, but it is for the general good of society and the betterment of all humanity.

Problem solved.
 
2013-03-10 10:11:04 AM  

Neondistraction: Jon iz teh kewl: Neondistraction: Jon iz teh kewl: i will defend Wells Fargo, as they have NEVER stolen money from my bank account
unlike lets say, the shoebox under my bed

So by that logic if your doctor sexually molested a bunch of people while under anesthesia you'd defend him because he's never done it to you?

yeah cause i did nothing to deserve it

So you're implying that this guy did something to deserve Wells Fargo mistakenly doubling his mortgage payment?  Did he touch you in your sleep or something?


no he touched them
 
2013-03-10 10:12:43 AM  
Corporations are people, my friend. And as such, should be jailed and tried for their crimes.
 
2013-03-10 10:15:57 AM  

jso2897: We're only five posts in, here. People will defend Wells Fargo in this thread - I'm calling it now.


I'm waiting for the personal responsibility crowd.  After all, if he couldn't have paid twice his mortgage amount, why didn't he get a better disability check based on his rare genetic condition?

AJisaff: what i can't understand is why the judge indicated that she was siding with Wells Fargo????


Corporations never do anything wrong, even when they do.
 
2013-03-10 10:16:48 AM  
bacccc: Just keep voting in the same group of crooks who let the banking industry commit this level of crime - then walk away from the carnage and (in this case) death with no blood on their collective hands.

 /Ameritards .... classic


stfu, seal clubber
 
2013-03-10 10:19:58 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


Paying half would have been equivalent to throwing money into the wind. Mortgage companies will refuse half payments in foreclosure cases, and often the money goes into a mysterious escrow hole never to be seen again.

Would it have shown good faith in court? Probably. Judging by the info from from this article, that wouldn't have mattered much.
 
2013-03-10 10:20:06 AM  

Slives: It seems we see things like this time and time again. There is an unexpected big change in the mortgage or loan payment amount. So what is the first thing a lot of people do? Stop paying completely.

So even if they get the error corrected, they are still behind on their payments. And they wonder why the bank is not bending over backwards to make things right for them.


The only problem with this scenario (and because it happened to me about 15 years ago) is that the mortgage company will reject a payment for anything other than the full amount. Sometimes that will also include attorney's fees if you are late enough.

/I know personally.
/Wife and I were laid off about 15 years ago at the same time. Couldn't make the mortgage payment for a couple of months. Eventually was able to cash out 401k and catch up the past due amount. Countrywide rejected it because it didn't include attorney's fees. They demanded the whole past due amount.
//Not so cool story bro, but it was my fault for being late.
///I've learned my lesson. Not going to ever happen again.
 
2013-03-10 10:22:45 AM  

Rhino_man: I'm going to assume that everyone knows how stupid it is to suggest that the actions of Wells Fargo killed this guy. The article even says that he had a rare blood clot disease, which the medical examiner says led to his death... so...


He went downhill awfully fast after they screwed up his mortgage though. Realistically, he probably would have ended up in assisted living anyway.

It sucks.
 
2013-03-10 10:24:16 AM  

KrispyKritter: i doubt anyone at WF will be jailed, fined or fired for their actions. maybe some day this type of thing will happen to someone who is dear to a Charles Bronson Death Wish kind of guy and the shiat will hit the fan.


It didn't hit the fan when Dorner exposed the LAPD.
It won't hit the fan when someone exposes the banks.
The media will portray anyone who applauds the whistleblower as anti-American, a kook, an anarchist, or some combination of the three.
The media will also state that the number of people applauding the whistleblower is insignificant and that the majority of people will side with the banks.

The banks will start acting psycho, then claim that they will investigate themselves.

The whistleblower will be killed.

The media, the banks, and everyone who doesn't want to be officially marked as a kook will proclaim 'Glad that's over!' and pretend none of it ever happened.

The end.
 
2013-03-10 10:31:00 AM  
Any lawyers out there? What grounds would the judge have, to give summary ruling for the bank? As I read it, the bank unilaterally altered the terms of the loan - in error compounded by negligence - in a way that the borrower simply could not accommodate. On what legal grounds should they win this dispute?
 
2013-03-10 10:31:43 AM  

SnarfVader: Slives: It seems we see things like this time and time again. There is an unexpected big change in the mortgage or loan payment amount. So what is the first thing a lot of people do? Stop paying completely.

So even if they get the error corrected, they are still behind on their payments. And they wonder why the bank is not bending over backwards to make things right for them.

The only problem with this scenario (and because it happened to me about 15 years ago) is that the mortgage company will reject a payment for anything other than the full amount. Sometimes that will also include attorney's fees if you are late enough.


Matters for the courts though. If there is a mistake in billing you can dispute the overage but you still need to make a good faith effort to pay what you owe. If you do, the court will look much more favourably on your case. You don't get to just say "They made a mistake so I don't owe anything, ever!"

It's all moot since he died, however had he continued to pay the amount he actually owed, Wells Fargo would probably lose in court. Even, perhaps especially  had they rejected the payments. If they farked up and he did what was right, the courts are likely to tell them it is their fault and thus they have to make it right. However in a case like this, the courts will probably rule that, though they farked up, he legitimately broke his mortgage by not paying what he owed for a long period of time.

If you get in to a situation where you are fighting over an overbilling, pay what you owe, and continue to do so. IF they start rejecting your payments, then keep evidence of the rejection, and put the money in an escrow account. This gives you a much, much stronger position in court. You can show that you made a good faith effort to pay what you actually owed, and they were farkers about it. You will probably win (presuming you are right about what you owe). However if you just stop paying entirely, well expect the court to look much less favourably on you.
 
2013-03-10 10:31:55 AM  
I'm thinking that we aren't hearing all of the story here. They are saying that he made a $1237 payment but only made $1655 a month. If that was true it was only a matter of time before he lost his house. That is 74%DTI back when the banks would "give a loan to anyone" the highest you could go was 55%DTI and I saw a couple subprime lenders that would go to 60% but only in rare circumstances.

Ya WF screwed up, but at the same time it wouldn't have been that long before an unexpected bill came up and this guy lost his house anyway.
 
2013-03-10 10:32:33 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: KrispyKritter: i doubt anyone at WF will be jailed, fined or fired for their actions. maybe some day this type of thing will happen to someone who is dear to a Charles Bronson Death Wish kind of guy and the shiat will hit the fan.

It didn't hit the fan when Dorner exposed the LAPD.
It won't hit the fan when someone exposes the banks.
The media will portray anyone who applauds the whistleblower as anti-American, a kook, an anarchist, or some combination of the three.
The media will also state that the number of people applauding the whistleblower is insignificant and that the majority of people will side with the banks.

The banks will start acting psycho, then claim that they will investigate themselves.

The whistleblower will be killed.

The media, the banks, and everyone who doesn't want to be officially marked as a kook will proclaim 'Glad that's over!' and pretend none of it ever happened.

The end.


The rich have lost their fear of screwing over the general populace in recent decades. What we need is a few Dorners for exposing America's top executives.
 
2013-03-10 10:33:41 AM  
FTFA

Delassus and his attorney did not discover until May 2010 that a mis-entered number had dragged Delassus into this spiral. As court documents obtained byshow, after admitting its error, Wells Fargo foreclosed on Delassus anyway and sold his condo.

WHAT THE EVER LOVING FARKITY FARK?!

JESUS JUMPING HILBILLY CHRIST
 
2013-03-10 10:35:37 AM  
They don't care that this guy died. Farker wasn't making his mortgage payments. One less deadbeat!
 
2013-03-10 10:35:56 AM  
How was he paying before? 1250 mortage on a 1650 check? Also, a mortage that high at his age?
 
2013-03-10 10:36:10 AM  

sycraft: SnarfVader: Slives: It seems we see things like this time and time again. There is an unexpected big change in the mortgage or loan payment amount. So what is the first thing a lot of people do? Stop paying completely.

So even if they get the error corrected, they are still behind on their payments. And they wonder why the bank is not bending over backwards to make things right for them.

The only problem with this scenario (and because it happened to me about 15 years ago) is that the mortgage company will reject a payment for anything other than the full amount. Sometimes that will also include attorney's fees if you are late enough.

Matters for the courts though. If there is a mistake in billing you can dispute the overage but you still need to make a good faith effort to pay what you owe. If you do, the court will look much more favourably on your case. You don't get to just say "They made a mistake so I don't owe anything, ever!"

It's all moot since he died, however had he continued to pay the amount he actually owed, Wells Fargo would probably lose in court. Even, perhaps especially  had they rejected the payments. If they farked up and he did what was right, the courts are likely to tell them it is their fault and thus they have to make it right. However in a case like this, the courts will probably rule that, though they farked up, he legitimately broke his mortgage by not paying what he owed for a long period of time.

If you get in to a situation where you are fighting over an overbilling, pay what you owe, and continue to do so. IF they start rejecting your payments, then keep evidence of the rejection, and put the money in an escrow account. This gives you a much, much stronger position in court. You can show that you made a good faith effort to pay what you actually owed, and they were farkers about it. You will probably win (presuming you are right about what you owe). However if you just stop paying entirely, well expect the court to look much less ...


Very good advice. My case never went so far as to go to court. Yeah, it makes sense to just put those payments you would normally be making into an account and leave them there to show good faith.
 
2013-03-10 10:37:21 AM  

dalthas: They don't care that this guy died. Farker wasn't making his mortgage payments. One less deadbeat!


but he didn't owe them any money

it was like shame on the night
shame on YOU
 
2013-03-10 10:39:19 AM  

BokerBill: Any lawyers out there? What grounds would the judge have, to give summary ruling for the bank? As I read it, the bank unilaterally altered the terms of the loan - in error compounded by negligence - in a way that the borrower simply could not accommodate. On what legal grounds should they win this dispute?


Too big to lose in court.
 
2013-03-10 10:39:40 AM  

A Shambling Mound: I'll be honest, I get a lot less sympathetic to the guy when I get to the part that says he simply stopped paying his mortgage entirely when the bank doubled it. I'm not saying that more than one person at Wells Fargo shouldn't lose their job over this but that was an incredibly poor tactical decision by the guy and the biggest stumbling block to getting the error corrected once Wells Fargo admitted it.

In a perfect world the bank would have admitted it's error and covered any and all costs incurred by the guy as a result of it but we all know we don't live in that world and never will. The closest this guy could have gotten was to not intentionally make things any worse than they already were but he sorta did the opposite.


lets see how well you do when they double your rent/mortgage on a fixed income... the guy was SIX months ahead of his payments with his proper rates..  yet his got double by accident cause some A**hole next door isn't paying his payments and some dumba** at the bank made an error on the condo number.. and yes someone needs to lose their job over this or at the very least Wells Fargo needs to be penalized fairly severely to the point where they just can't ignore it and make the same mistake again. basically in your point it's the guy's fault because he made the "mistake" of not paying his unfairly doubled mortgage payments that he now can't afford and even though they eventually got the mistake by the bank resolved the bank REFUSED to return his payment to what they were before and even had the guts to try and charge him a "reinstatement" fee which I wouldn't be surprised if that is not a small fee.
 
2013-03-10 10:39:51 AM  

BarefootInTheFark: Corporations are people, my friend. And as such, should be jailed and tried for their crimes.


Ding ding ding. We have a winner
 
2013-03-10 10:41:02 AM  

Rhino_man: I'm going to assume that everyone knows how stupid it is to suggest that the actions of Wells Fargo killed this guy. The article even says that he had a rare blood clot disease, which the medical examiner says led to his death... so...


Did you know you could be charged with murder if someone died that you were arguing with? At the minimum you would get a wrongful death lawsuit.
 
2013-03-10 10:41:17 AM  

Zeno-25: ExperianScaresCthulhu: KrispyKritter: i doubt anyone at WF will be jailed, fined or fired for their actions. maybe some day this type of thing will happen to someone who is dear to a Charles Bronson Death Wish kind of guy and the shiat will hit the fan.

It didn't hit the fan when Dorner exposed the LAPD.
It won't hit the fan when someone exposes the banks.
The media will portray anyone who applauds the whistleblower as anti-American, a kook, an anarchist, or some combination of the three.
The media will also state that the number of people applauding the whistleblower is insignificant and that the majority of people will side with the banks.

The banks will start acting psycho, then claim that they will investigate themselves.

The whistleblower will be killed.

The media, the banks, and everyone who doesn't want to be officially marked as a kook will proclaim 'Glad that's over!' and pretend none of it ever happened.

The end.

The rich have lost their fear of screwing over the general populace in recent decades. What we need is a few Dorners for exposing America's top executives.


So you gonna keep barking, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?
 
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