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(The New York Times)   Baby boomers are now attacking retirement communities when they're not even retired. When will it end?   (nytimes.com) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, baby boomers, Kings Point, Catskills  
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8330 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2013 at 8:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-10 06:45:21 AM
Bought a 2 bedroom condo for $26k, cash?  I could almost do that.
 
2013-03-10 07:07:23 AM

Alphax: Bought a 2 bedroom condo for $26k, cash?  I could almost do that.


As a baby boomer, I'm trying to add this up in my head and I think I can do this.

This is nothing compared to the cost of living in Jersey.
/home owner and slave to the bank
 
2013-03-10 08:09:42 AM
 
2013-03-10 08:26:07 AM
d3u67r7pp2lrq5.cloudfront.net
Approves.
 
2013-03-10 08:42:57 AM
I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?
 
2013-03-10 08:45:00 AM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


yeah true

but you get to live in a place that sounds like "condoM"
 
2013-03-10 08:46:41 AM
Stable affordable housing you own, Boomers? Man, that's rough.
 
2013-03-10 08:48:34 AM

BigBooper: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


It's highly variable, and they often come with additional services, like gyms and pools. You have to run the numbers, and decide if the amenities are worth it. I looked at one condo with no common areas to speak of that wanted $400/mo in fees. I saw another that had a lovely parklet/garden area and wanted $50/yr in fees.
 
2013-03-10 08:56:21 AM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


You're renting it from a bank, and taking it off your AGI.  Same as you'd do with that 3K ft2 McMansion.

//Getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction is long overdue.
 
2013-03-10 08:59:28 AM
I think I will give my dad a call, let him know it is time for him to go to a nursing home.  Time go put away the sports equipment away old man, and get those Depends ready.  If he does need Depends, someone else is changing him.
 
2013-03-10 08:59:40 AM

hurdboy: BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?

You're renting it from a bank, and taking it off your AGI.  Same as you'd do with that 3K ft2 McMansion.

//Getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction is long overdue.


t3.gstatic.com
'
cheaper than a McMansion
and just as tasty
 
2013-03-10 09:00:09 AM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


I live in a low rise condo, most of my condo fee, which is a low 160 per month, goes towards a fund for building maintenance. I would never live in an attached home where my neighbour is too cheap to pay for roof maintenance which then affects my home. It's either attached condo or detached freehold for me. And I couldn't afford a freehold when I entered the market.
 
2013-03-10 09:05:03 AM

hurdboy: Getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction is long overdue.


I'll never understand why some people insist that you need to buy a house so that you can save money on taxes. I know that many people find math difficult, but it should be pretty easy to understand that while you don't pay taxes on the money used to cover the mortgage interest,  you're still paying interest on the mortgage.
 
2013-03-10 09:11:28 AM

lack of warmth: I think I will give my dad a call, let him know it is time for him to go to a nursing home.  Time go put away the sports equipment away old man, and get those Depends ready.  If he does need Depends, someone else is changing him.


Last time I tried telling my dad that, I got grounded.
 
2013-03-10 09:14:22 AM
When they're all dead, subby. When they're all dead.
 
2013-03-10 09:20:33 AM
Ive always said I'd love to live in a place like my grandparents, but for younger people.  They have their own full apartment (some are even detached homes) but easy access to doctors, recreation, a library, even a bar.  And the food is really good.  Linen tablecloths with cute young waitresses at every meal.
 
2013-03-10 09:20:46 AM
Just a "maybe".  I think I'd rather live die in a trailer park.
 
2013-03-10 09:24:58 AM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


It depends on the place, but the way it's supposed to work is that you own the place, or at least a legal interest in the place, in that if you "own" a condo you can rent it out, renovate it, alter it, etc. like you would your own property.  It's not quite as liberating as owning a home, but compared to an apartment there's a much bigger incentive to actually invest in the place.  Second, a condo fee should be much lower than rent; where I've lived they were typically about half or less.  They're also much cheaper than homes, or should be.  So, it's supposed to be a sort of middle ground between apartments and houses.  Yeah it's sort of like living with an HOA but the only part of your property people see is the front door.

You want a condo if you're rich enough to own your own place so you don't want to be some landlord's biatch, but you can't or don't want to spend the time maintaining your own property and (most likely) commuting.  Typical reasons are you're busy, social or just plain lazy.  For example, many condos have shared amenities like a pool or a garage.  Well, they're maintained by paid staff.  If you own your own pool you either have to pay someone to maintain it or do it yourself.  Condos are often high-density urban housing, which means you can live in convenient parts of a city without spending several million dollars.  Well, again, that's how it's supposed to work, but lately developers have only been making "luxury" condos which are comparable in price to city houses but really just glorified apartments.  I also don't get why people buy luxury condos that are nowhere near town.  That's all the disadvantages of a both a house and apartment with the advantages of neither.
 
2013-03-10 09:25:19 AM

ghare: Just a "maybe".  I think I'd rather live die in a trailer park.


Buzzbomb?
 
2013-03-10 09:26:18 AM
trailer park?  why not live in a mcmansion

"you can live a life of luxury.  if that's what you want"  -- Pet Shop Boys
 
2013-03-10 09:30:34 AM

t3knomanser: It's highly variable, and they often come with additional services, like gyms and pools. You have to run the numbers, and decide if the amenities are worth it. I looked at one condo with no common areas to speak of that wanted $400/mo in fees. I saw another that had a lovely parklet/garden area and wanted $50/yr in fees.


I spoke recently with my parents who were looking at selling their paid-in-full home (and consequently pouring tons of $$ into it for 'resale value' ). I said to my mother : "Where else are you going to get 3600 sq ft on 1/4 acre of land in a neighborhood where you know everyone and can walk to the beach for 500$ a month in taxes, heat, hot water ?"

/They hate the heat.
// California's too wierd.

And you know what? If you're 60+ and you think you're "too young to retire" you're right, but you need to get a new career, because you're crushing your children.
 
2013-03-10 09:31:34 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: cheaper than a McMansion
and just as tasty


Suburban problems.  I'd rather go to a locally-owned place, get something that didn't come off the freezer truck last week.

t3knomanser: I'll never understand why some people insist that you need to buy a house so that you can save money on taxes. I know that many people find math difficult, but it should be pretty easy to understand that while you don't pay taxes on the money used to cover the mortgage interest,  you're still paying interest on the mortgage.


Not with interest rates that don't keep up with inflation.  Plus with the relative ease of refinancing, essentially all consumer debt can be spared taxation if you "own" a house.

Media outlet where I worked in 2000 had twelve different mortgage brokers advertising at one point.
 
2013-03-10 09:34:12 AM

hurdboy: Jon iz teh kewl: cheaper than a McMansion
and just as tasty

Suburban problems.  I'd rather go to a locally-owned place, get something that didn't come off the freezer truck last week.


what if i start a national company that sells vegetarian sounding meals and goes "fisheh fisheH" on the tv
 
2013-03-10 09:39:46 AM
My parents live in an Arizona retirement place part time, considerably more expensive than this lady's arrangement. But I don't get why they want to be there. Everybody is the same age (and color). It's like a zoo where they let the animals wander around because they're tame enough. But it's all the same animal.

At night they only keep one entrance open. Somebody writes down license plates at the gate to "deter crime," not that they ask where you're going. They have no idea what it's like in the summertime when there's hardly a person in the place. I'd go over to check on my dad's place and not see a person - you could steal everything in those places in short order.

At any rate, in my old age I want a nice mixed neighborhood. Kids on the lawn to yell at, teenagers driving down the street too fast, young couples starting families, and a few retired people.
 
2013-03-10 09:56:25 AM
Can we get the root of the problem? Baby boomers suck. Discuss.
 
2013-03-10 09:56:25 AM

edmo: My parents live in an Arizona retirement place part time, considerably more expensive than this lady's arrangement. But I don't get why they want to be there.  Everybody is the same age (and color). It's like a zoo where they let the animals wander around because they're tame enough. But it's all the same animal.


That's exactly why they live there and that's exactly the appeal of living there. All of the real problems the elderly have to deal with can be quite taxing, so the appeal of sameness and the perception of safety provides some degree of relief.
 
2013-03-10 10:09:41 AM
many of these places are not retirement communities. they are 'over 50' housing. some people retire young and still enjoy an active lifestyle. it's nice to ride bicycles with the wife down the street without a neighbor's 20 yr old running you over with a mega-loud muffler low suspension VW.

it's worth it to many people to pay a monthly fee to not have to worry about repairs and maintenance. they may have done that most of their lives. they're old, they're tired. now they can let someone else do the chores.
 
2013-03-10 10:21:24 AM
emarche

Can we get the root of the problem? Baby boomers suck. Discuss.

IChrome off your bumper, baby. Discuss.
 
2013-03-10 10:33:52 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: what if i start a national company that sells vegetarian sounding meals and goes "fisheh fisheH" on the tv


Need to find an existing failing company to destroy through a merger.  Burger King seems to still be on the ropes....merge with it, leverage everything, stick all the debts into BK, then send BK into Chapter 7.

Win-win, no?

//*facepalm*
 
2013-03-10 11:02:52 AM

hurdboy: Not with interest rates that don't keep up with inflation.


That's really separate than the taxes. The advantage of having a mortgage is that you are getting someone to lend you money for a fee that costs less to service than inflation. You can then go and invest that money into something that will yield a better return (which is the main reason I haven't paid off my house, yet). So the tax break is a "nice to have", making this borrow-to-invest sceme more lucrative.

But it's hardly a strong motivator for buying a house. In the end, the amount you save on taxes is only a fraction of what you're spending on interest. It certainly isn't going to help your liquidity. It'll work out well in the long run. The thing about long-run investment returns, however, is that  there's no rush to get in on it.
 
2013-03-10 11:10:36 AM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


"Condominium" is derived from an ancient Greek word that, loosely translated, means "expensive ass-apartment." Lotta people don't know that.
 
2013-03-10 11:13:58 AM

hurdboy: Jon iz teh kewl: what if i start a national company that sells vegetarian sounding meals and goes "fisheh fisheH" on the tv

Need to find an existing failing company to destroy through a merger.  Burger King seems to still be on the ropes....merge with it, leverage everything, stick all the debts into BK, then send BK into Chapter 7.

Win-win, no?

//*facepalm*


and lose the cross'andwich?  no thanks buddy
 
2013-03-10 11:19:44 AM

t3knomanser: hurdboy: Not with interest rates that don't keep up with inflation.

But it's hardly a strong motivator for buying a house. In the end, the amount you save on taxes is only a fraction of what you're spending on interest. It certainly isn't going to help your liquidity. It'll work out well in the long run. The thing about long-run investment returns, however, is that  there's no rush to get in on it.


Absolutely.

But it doesn't mean there should be a tax advantage for doing it.  If you're buying a place with the intention of living in it for the rest of your life, I might could see that.  But that doesn't happen anymore, really anywhere.
 
2013-03-10 11:20:13 AM
Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.
 
2013-03-10 11:20:31 AM
as my income is mostly broke, I think I'd like to try a fixed income for a while.


Not really, had a single mom with the nefariously named 'fixed income"  Nothing "Fixed" about it lemme tell you
 
2013-03-10 11:21:22 AM

machoprogrammer: Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.


instead of a gold based dollar.  why not a urine based one
 
2013-03-10 11:22:28 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: and lose the cross'andwich?  no thanks buddy


Brand transfer over to a different restaurant.  Where did Carl's Jr. fried chicken come from?  How about the biscuits and iced tea?
 
2013-03-10 11:40:35 AM

hurdboy: Jon iz teh kewl: and lose the cross'andwich?  no thanks buddy

Brand transfer over to a different restaurant.  Where did Carl's Jr. fried chicken come from?  How about the biscuits and iced tea?


fark their chicken i want their
EXTRA BIG ASS TACO
 
2013-03-10 11:47:45 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: fark their chicken i want their
EXTRA BIG ASS TACO


Are they serving tacos these days?

(They're all Hardee's around here....but the chicken was originally Roy Rogers.....  Shiat changes.  I welcome our new Nabiso Twinkies overlords....)
 
2013-03-10 11:49:44 AM

machoprogrammer: Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.


Thank you, Dr. Huxley.
 
2013-03-10 12:11:52 PM
So the lady in this story, who isn't necessarily in need, wanting to retire, or incapable of working, had 26 large in cash to throw down on a condo in a retirement community.  Then she comments that many of the "amenities" are not really what she likes to do so she doesn't use that many of them.

The sad part to me is that she has taken a spot that could have gone to someone who really was in need (i.e. retired on a fixed income).
 
2013-03-10 01:07:23 PM

corn-bread: So the lady in this story, who isn't necessarily in need, wanting to retire, or incapable of working, had 26 large in cash to throw down on a condo in a retirement community.  Then she comments that many of the "amenities" are not really what she likes to do so she doesn't use that many of them.

The sad part to me is that she has taken a spot that could have gone to someone who really was in need (i.e. retired on a fixed income).


I can totally picture this broad yelling at the neighbors to limp faster, they're blocking the hallway.
 
2013-03-10 01:34:36 PM

emarche: Can we get the root of the problem? Baby boomers suck. Discuss.


Well, duh! When my wife takes out her teeth, it's exquisite!!!

Don't knock it till you've tried it whippersnapper

/And get the fark off my lawn!
 
2013-03-10 02:08:45 PM
But it's hardly a strong motivator for buying a house. In the end, the amount you save on taxes is only a fraction of what you're spending on interest. It certainly isn't going to help your liquidity. It'll work out well in the long run. The thing about long-run investment returns, however, is that  there's no rush to get in on it.

Absolutely.

But it doesn't mean there should be a tax advantage for doing it.  If you're buying a place with the intention of living in it for the rest of your life, I might could see that.  But that doesn't happen anymore, really anywhere.


I don't know about the rest of my life, but we plan to live in this house for the foreseeable future. The mortgage deduction has saved my ass a couple times when I didn't have enough taken out of my check to cover some extra work I did. As I get older, I'll make more (theoretically) and not have to worry so much about keeping everything balanced so finely. By that time we would have paid enough on the house that the  mortgage interest won't be so high and we won't be getting such a big deduction. The mortgage deduction is a nice way of allowing newer home owners a bit of leeway as they get used to the finances of home ownership. It should, however, only apply to your primary residence.
 
2013-03-10 02:35:00 PM

ghare: Just a "maybe".  I think I'd rather live die in a trailer park.


I lived in a trailer park just outside of Halifax for a couple years. It was a nightmare. The park supervisor was constantly drunk off his ass and liked to drive around with his shirtless idiot assistant. They were constantly getting into confrontations with a bunch of career criminals who lived in the park. These guys were constantly growing dope, firing off guns, and stealing barbeques, among other offences. One of the guys lived in a farking shed and made a living selling stolen shopping carts. Another lived in a car (missing a door) and grew dope. These guys went to jail about once a year but never got evicted from the park.
 
2013-03-10 02:41:06 PM

machoprogrammer: Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.


Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2013-03-10 02:53:01 PM

t3knomanser: hurdboy: Not with interest rates that don't keep up with inflation.

That's really separate than the taxes. The advantage of having a mortgage is that you are getting someone to lend you money for a fee that costs less to service than inflation. You can then go and invest that money into something that will yield a better return (which is the main reason I haven't paid off my house, yet). So the tax break is a "nice to have", making this borrow-to-invest sceme more lucrative.

But it's hardly a strong motivator for buying a house. In the end, the amount you save on taxes is only a fraction of what you're spending on interest. It certainly isn't going to help your liquidity. It'll work out well in the long run. The thing about long-run investment returns, however, is that  there's no rush to get in on it.


The mortgage interest deduction may not be the deciding factor when buying a house but anyone who's bothering to crunch the numbers will factor it into the price they're willing to pay.  Remove the deduction and we can expect an across the board devaluation of home prices.  The ramp up to the real estate bubble ~7-8 years ago would have been a much better time to phase out the deduction.
 
2013-03-10 04:24:59 PM

hurdboy: Jon iz teh kewl: fark their chicken i want their
EXTRA BIG ASS TACO

Are they serving tacos these days?

(They're all Hardee's around here....but the chicken was originally Roy Rogers.....  Shiat changes.  I welcome our new Nabiso Twinkies overlords....)


montevallotimetravel.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-10 04:39:45 PM

machoprogrammer: Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.


Stop reading that Ross Perot pamphlet.

/is just assuming this was a Simpsons reference
 
2013-03-10 04:50:34 PM
Jon iz teh kewl:

[montevallotimetravel.files.wordpress.com image 784x439]

Fark you.  I'm eatin'.

Sadly, too much in that movie may be true.  Under-appreciated.  But President Camacho has this guy, Not Sure, who's gonna fix all the problems.
 
2013-03-10 04:50:59 PM
But look at it from the other side of the demographic divid: hot young chicks with their own teeth and virile young studs who aren't eligible for free prostate exams are moving into Grandma Town!  Yeeee-haw! It's party time!
 
2013-03-10 04:53:04 PM

Plastic Trash Vortex: machoprogrammer: Old people shouldn't retire, they should be researched so we can figure out what resources we can extract from them.

Stop reading that Ross Perot pamphlet.

/is just assuming this was a Simpsons reference


You got it. Surprised it took that long
 
2013-03-11 11:38:22 AM

KrispyKritter: it's nice to ride bicycles with the wife down the street without a neighbor's 20 yr old running you over with a mega-loud muffler low suspension VW.


Yeah, it's much better to get flattened by a 70 yr old with a whisper quiet Buick.
 
2013-03-11 04:55:21 PM

BigBooper: I don't understand condos. Aren't you basically paying tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands, to live in an apartment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most condo association fees as much as rent?


Condos tend to be much nicer than apartments, with dishwashers and a washer and dryer in every unit.

Buying one for 26k in a retirement community is a steal though. Condos can be the price of a 3bed house!
 
2013-03-11 05:03:19 PM

t3knomanser: hurdboy: Getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction is long overdue.

I'll never understand why some people insist that you need to buy a house so that you can save money on taxes. I know that many people find math difficult, but it should be pretty easy to understand that while you don't pay taxes on the money used to cover the mortgage interest,  you're still paying interest on the mortgage.


It's one of the cultural "you have tos". It like you "have to" have a wedding, you "have to" have kids, etc.

It's so deeply ingrained in our psyche it's hard for people to de-program themselves.
 
2013-03-11 05:06:27 PM
I sacrificed ManCard points today by recognizing that this is a lot like a particular episode of Sex and the City.
 
2013-03-11 05:24:23 PM

Hagbardr: ghare: Just a "maybe".  I think I'd rather live die in a trailer park.

I lived in a trailer park just outside of Halifax for a couple years. It was a nightmare. The park supervisor was constantly drunk off his ass and liked to drive around with his shirtless idiot assistant. They were constantly getting into confrontations with a bunch of career criminals who lived in the park. These guys were constantly growing dope, firing off guns, and stealing barbeques, among other offences. One of the guys lived in a farking shed and made a living selling stolen shopping carts. Another lived in a car (missing a door) and grew dope. These guys went to jail about once a year but never got evicted from the park.


I love you
 
2013-03-11 05:54:06 PM

shortymac: It's one of the cultural "you have tos". It like you "have to" have a wedding, you "have to" have kids, etc.

It's so deeply ingrained in our psyche it's hard for people to de-program themselves.


Tell me about it.  My mother will never understand why my wife and I don't want a house in the 'burbs, kids, regular office job, etc..

"You're okay that you don't drive anymore?"
"Uh, yeah, Mom."
"When are you gonna have kids?"
"Mom, I'm half-blind, and my body basically don't work from the chest down."
"...  You know I'd be there to help y'all out."

(The unsaid part of that is, "you two can come live with me!")

//Mid-30s, wife is mid-20s.
 
2013-03-13 11:42:50 AM

hurdboy: shortymac: It's one of the cultural "you have tos". It like you "have to" have a wedding, you "have to" have kids, etc.

It's so deeply ingrained in our psyche it's hard for people to de-program themselves.

Tell me about it.  My mother will never understand why my wife and I don't want a house in the 'burbs, kids, regular office job, etc..

"You're okay that you don't drive anymore?"
"Uh, yeah, Mom."
"When are you gonna have kids?"
"Mom, I'm half-blind, and my body basically don't work from the chest down."
"...  You know I'd be there to help y'all out."

(The unsaid part of that is, "you two can come live with me!")

//Mid-30s, wife is mid-20s.


My parents FREAKED OUT when I sold my car and started taking Public Transit all the time to save money. UGH.
 
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