The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.
sbking: I guaranty that i know more about this subject than anybody on this thread.Global warming has nothing to do with human beings or any other animal on this planet - it is the height of arrongance to believe we could do such a thing.
leadmetal: They are in the role they play for the power structure of the society.
leadmetal: Ever read early 20th century texts about how "science" will replace religion?
leadmetal: An intellectual class tells us, the people, why we should obey the ruling class.
leadmetal: The processes used in the scientific part of that modern intellectual class, in an ideal sense could work, for some things, if the people involved didn't have to worry about funding their next study. If they didn't have to worry about their careers.
leadmetal: Science" has intentionally wrecked the careers of many who were ultimately proven correct
leadmetal: No, sorry, it's not this infallible group of people using perfect processes. Far from it. The fact so many believe it to be practically infallible is the problem,
J. Frank Parnell: Farking Canuck: There is much that can be done without massive tax hits.When they start talking about globally banning the combustion engine we'll be moving in the right direction. As soon as those are illegal alternatives will naturally appear, and all car company research will go towards making them better and better.What, that's too extreme? I thought this was an extreme problem which had to be dealt with immediately?
Chach: Infernalist: HotIgneous Intruder: AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.What's funny is that you think that academics have to worry about staying funded.They do. Buck the trend? Better have a good reason or get out of the pool.Politics is a giant influence in research. How is it that liberals dominate any given university? It ain't because liberals are smarter, that's for sure.
oren0: Kazan: 10^12 tons. 1,000,000,000,000. TERATONS of Carbon.Human activity is adding TERATONS of Carbon. It's called the "Law of Extremely Large Numbers". One human is insignificant. 7 billion humans are not.What percentage of the CO2 in the atmosphere is that? How does the annual amount compare to the amount emitted by natural processes, such as decaying trees or the ocean? Hint: it's about two orders of magnitude smaller.
serial_crusher: So, if that rapid cooling had continued, that would have been a bad thing too, right?
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kazan: if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.
Kazan: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.I've long since learned that bothering to construct a coherent and intelligent argument to refute your trolling is a waste of time. You simply ignore all data that disagrees with you (so on this subject: all data period) and continue to troll.The Stealth Hippopotamus: Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.you fail at basic thermodynamics. try looking up the matter and energy densities of the interstellar medium, then calculate the amount of energy needed to raise the global mean temperature by even quarter of a degree Celsius and learn why your suggestion that it is the interstellar medium warming us is pants-on-head-retarded.
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lets see here, our solar system travels about 23,265,520,000 km. a year. So in the 23,265,520,000 X 11,000 km we have traveled I'm going to say that we have changed locations. Maybe just maybe that has more to do with it then some insects called the human race
Infernalist: Assuming we go with your theory of it happening gradually, what happens when the Breadbasket region of the Midwest suddenly goes dry and some arid region of southern Mexico suddenly finds itself with a perfect climate for growing vast amounts of crops?What happens when the nation with the largest military ever to exist suddenly finds itself hungry and having to pay top dollar for food after a century of being a net exporter of sustenance crops? How long do you think before Mexico gets annexed?
GF named my left testicle thundercles: although i agree that warming is happening and is anthropomorphic, can anyone provide me with links about why warming is bad? it seems to me that preventing the end of the holocene interglacial is a good idea.
Somacandra: Infernalist: while the other is based ENTIRELY upon the foundation of peer-reviewed evidence-based science.Try some in-depth investigation of the history of science. It is far--quite far from the idealized version you make it out to be. It is as full of political bs/crap as any other human institution. I don't think that takes away from the very real issues of Global Climate Change, but neither is it some effortlessly-running edifice of rigorious and efficient knowledge production. Science always takes place in a human/narrative context and is no less affected by it than any other field of human endeavor.
TV's Vinnie: Infernalist: You can live in a cave if you want. I'm not saying that's wrong or anything, but you'd have to be retarded to actually think that's what people are advocating.I'm not, and they are.
JRoo: So global warming has saved us from an advancing ice age?Sweet.Now we just have to figure out how to slow it down and control it.
TV's Vinnie: So obviously, the solution is to1. Give billions of dollars to the scientists2. Round up everyone, exterminate 90% of the Earth's population (excluding scientists, supermodels, and asian porn starlets of course), and force the remaining 10% to shiver in unlit caves and allowed to only eat their own dung & wear clothes made only out of their own hair (again, excluding scientists, supermodels, and asian porn starlets, who will have mansions).
Kazan: if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.
sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.
Infernalist: Okay, just so we're clear here, that's an idiotic presenting of things. You're equating the priesthood of ages past with today's scientific community.One counted on the ignorance of the masses, and often worked HARD to keep them ignorant, while the other is based ENTIRELY upon the foundation of peer-reviewed evidence-based science.They are, quite simply, as opposite from each other as any two things could possibly be.The fact that you're trying to make them 'the same lol' pretty much relegates you to the lunatic corner or 'herpa derp' crowd.You're basically saying that because scientists figured out that something LEAD is bad for you and smoking causes cancer...that they're telling you that you have to 'sacrifice' and not eat that yummy lead and give up those nifty cigarettes.I just hope to god that you're trolling and you're not actually this retarded.
Ishkur: Not sure why you're equating the two. Religion is a thing, interpreted by priests, translated into dogma, for the sake of power, position and privilege. Science is a process, used by scientists, interpreted into theories, for the sake of increasing our understanding of the natural world and its faculties.The two aren't even comparable.
oren0: machodonkeywrestler: There are other accurate measures that are very good at predicting the temperatures over a century old, but you knew thatAre there? The accuracy of tree ring proxies has been torn to shreds in the literature, and many other proxies are similarly problematic due to issues with improper statistics or bad assumptions about causation, see hockey stick controversy, Yamal trees, etc. Even if other proxies are accurate, how does this one compare? If your proxy can't perform in the one era where it is falsifiable by the instrumental temperature record, why should its accuracy over thousands of years be trusted?
oren0: Let's say it were unequivocally true that AGW was caused by CO2 and was going to be catastrophic. Why is this the only solution? For example, we know that SO2 can cause global cooling (see Mount Pinatubo, 1991). Geoengineering effects such as releasing SO2 into the atmosphere would be hundreds if not thousands of times cheaper than cutting greenhouse gas emissions. Why is it that the only solutions environmentalists will accept are the ones that cost trillions of dollars?
Chach: I'm absolutely 100% for the people biatching about allegedly anthropogenic global warming having their share of resources rationed and having a fund started that they can pay into to (LOL) "offset" carbon emissions. Because, y'know, tossing money at it helps.
iheartscotch: I see you don't seem to understand that during peak solar events that the sun throws addition energy out into space. And the sun cycles are typically a decade or so long.
cameroncrazy1984: iheartscotch: My point was; our sun is a big factor in us being warm.Oh, really? Perhaps you could point to some research that confirms this hypothesis.
New Age Redneck: We don't and never will. When did we as a species become so f*cking arrogant that we think we control nature?
LookForTheArrow: New Age Redneck: FTFA: future where humans control the thermostat of the planet We don't and never will. When did we as a species become so f*cking arrogant that we think we control nature? Mother nature is coldly indifferent to our presence at best, we'll be another species that will go extinct to no fanfare. Sleep tight./ could you at least enjoy the ride for chrissakesyou ass. Algae, a motherfarking microbe you can't even see, terra formed the entire planet. 3 billion years later, those same microbes can now dig through the earth and unleash/mine/extract any amount of material we find convenient to extract and you think that's "small fries"?you moron.
New Age Redneck: FTFA: future where humans control the thermostat of the planet We don't and never will. When did we as a species become so f*cking arrogant that we think we control nature? Mother nature is coldly indifferent to our presence at best, we'll be another species that will go extinct to no fanfare. Sleep tight./ could you at least enjoy the ride for chrissakes
leadmetal: The priests made a good living doing this. In other societies it's an intellectual class. They call themselves scientists, economists, and other things.
ialdabaoth: Why do you seriously assume that 'facts' matter to people, just because you think they matter to you?
iheartscotch: Krieghund: iheartscotch: No interstellar mediums, eh? What, pray tell, would you call the sun then, if I may ask?It definitely isn't interstellar.Maybe I am wrong; but, isn't the definition of interstellar is a body that moves though space? The sun moves; from a galactic standpoint. I mean; we are in one of the "arms" of the galaxy.And the sun does provide warmth to us./ it wouldn't take much increased output from the sun to cook us; from the perspective of the energy that the sun already puts out.// not that I am saying that is what is happening
leadmetal: Infernalist: leadmetal: HotIgneous Intruder: AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.Ain't that the truth.Thousands of years go by and it's still the same arrangement of human society. Every system of rule requires a priest / intellectual class to support its power.FunkOut: How soon until sacrifices to the sun god start?Sometime after we start paying carbon indulgences.Just curious, but are you actually equating priests with scientists?It depends on which era of human society and which society you want to discuss. In some societies it was a priest class that told us why we had to obey the ruling class, how they were the ones to say how we should live and so forth. What sacrifices we had to make. The priests made a good living doing this.In other societies it's an intellectual class. They call themselves scientists, economists, and other things. They proclaim to be experts and earn their paychecks, often out of tax monies, or monies from those who benefit from government to tell us why we should obey the ruling class, what sacrifices we have to make, how we should live, and so forth.The idea that the profession of science is pure and unbiased is just childish naive belief. It is just as political and motivated by people building and holding on to status (and incomes) in their careers as any other field.
Ow! That was my feelings!: There is obviously 'anti-science bias', but the reason there will be no solution is anti-tax bias, at least in the US. There is ZERO chance of carbon taxes or some similar scheme happening in the US, China, India and most of the world. It is missing the point to claim 'anti-science' is the issue when it is rejection of the 'solution' of massive tax hikes that is really the issue.
Farking Canuck: Infernalist: That's why you see the GOP so united on this particular issue.And here I was thinking it was just stupidity ... Hanlon's Razor and all.Maybe we're both right.
HotIgneous Intruder: It was the evil oil companies, incorporated 11,000 years ago, that began all this climate trouble!
The Stealth Hippopotamus: sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.
Infernalist: Did not read the article, but wouldn't it be amusing if our mere industrialized presence is keeping the world from slipping back into another Little Ice Age?
Peter von Nostrand: Your mom spread her legs?/got nothing
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