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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   Researchers say the earth is getting warmer faster than at any time in the last 11,000 years and that the world was actually rapidly cooling until SOMETHING made the temperatures start to climb in the early 20th century   (ajc.com) divider line 366
    More: Obvious, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, tree rings, ice cores, heat spike  
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5475 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2013 at 6:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-08 07:11:09 PM
Hitler and the Holocaust?
 
2013-03-08 07:11:14 PM

Kazan: you fail at basic thermodynamics. try looking up the matter and energy densities of the interstellar medium, then calculate the amount of energy needed to raise the global mean temperature by even quarter of a degree Celsius and learn why your suggestion that it is the interstellar medium warming us is pants-on-head-retarded.


I like you.  You come with facts.
 
2013-03-08 07:11:14 PM

Kazan: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.

I've long since learned that bothering to construct a coherent and intelligent argument to refute your trolling is a waste of time. You simply ignore all data that disagrees with you (so on this subject: all data period) and continue to troll.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.

you fail at basic thermodynamics. try looking up the matter and energy densities of the interstellar medium, then calculate the amount of energy needed to raise the global mean temperature by even quarter of a degree Celsius and learn why your suggestion that it is the interstellar medium warming us is pants-on-head-retarded.


THIS. Both times.
 
2013-03-08 07:11:20 PM

TV's Vinnie: Infernalist: You can live in a cave if you want. I'm not saying that's wrong or anything, but you'd have to be retarded to actually think that's what people are advocating.

I'm not, and they are.


To be fair, lots of people advocate eliminating huge groups of people all the time.  On any given day, an internet post somewhere will say to kill (whites/blacks/Muslims/Christians/meat eaters/internet users/liberals/Yanks/the poor/the rich).  No one with any sense takes them seriously.

Unless you do take them seriously, which is a bigger issue in misunderstanding hyperbole.  And if you act on it, well then you're not even mentally capable of counting to potato.
 
2013-03-08 07:11:21 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lets see here, our solar system travels about 23,265,520,000 km. a year. So in the 23,265,520,000 X 11,000 km we have traveled I'm going to say that we have changed locations. Maybe just maybe that has more to do with it then some insects called the human race


That's only 27 light-years. The Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light-years across and 1,000 light-years thick. So we've traveled through roughly 2 hundredths of a percent (0.0002%) of the galaxy during that time.

We've barely gone anywhere.
 
2013-03-08 07:11:49 PM
Here's another bit of "wisdom" from Garret Hardin, who thinks that only the rich should be allowed to have a decent standard of living, and all the non-rich will jyst have to get used to living like midieval peasants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8yOamWq3a0

I bet the Koches just LOVE this dickhead.
 
2013-03-08 07:12:48 PM
Meh. We have too many people anyway. It's time for a good flushing
 
2013-03-08 07:12:52 PM

Kazan: HotIgneous Intruder: It was the evil oil companies, incorporated 11,000 years ago, that began all this climate trouble!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 600x400]


don't be stupid.

/too late.


The chart clearly shows my version to be true; it says BP right across the X axis.
 
2013-03-08 07:14:01 PM

Duck_of_Doom: To be fair, lots of people advocate eliminating huge groups of people all the time. On any given day, an internet post somewhere will say to kill (whites/blacks/Muslims/Christians/meat eaters/internet users/liberals/Yanks/the poor/the rich). No one with any sense takes them seriously.

Unless you do take them seriously, which is a bigger issue in misunderstanding hyperbole.


The issue isn't whether you or I take this asshole seriously. It's that certain people in positions of power (with the resources to make things happen) ARE taking this asshole seriously.
 
2013-03-08 07:14:09 PM
This is something I've posted before, but considering the subject, I figured it was appropriate for me to scribble it down again...

The global warming denial thing is the singular most perfect subject upon which the entirety of the GOP can agree and I'll explain why.

The GOP is composed of two major groups, the religious right and the business interests.  Now, the religious right 'hates' the idea of global warming due to the fact that the premise behind it is that we, as a species, are causing global warming due to our prolific growth and industrial efforts.

Now, that right there is going piss them off.  Cause they believe that GOD made the world and everything in it, and 'He' controls that world inherently and we're just passengers on that ship.  It's an abdication of responsibility.  There's also the fact that the religious right rage about the concept that 'we' are capable of destroying the world through our adherence to 'be fruitful and multiply'.  Finally, the believe that it's the height of hubris to think that we're capable of 'accidentally' destroying the world, something created by GOD.  Sure, nukes are one thing, that's a DELIBERATE destruction of the world and a destruction by 'fire', something that the religious nuts like a lot for some reason.

So they're going to get up arms about it, sneering at the educated scientists that have been pissing them off for about 500 years now.

Now, the business interests are all about denying global warming, because it's THEIR industrial efforts that causing the worst of it.  And they're not about to take a cut in profits to save the world.  Why should they?  It's the most primal form of 'short term profit', after all.  What do they care what happens in a hundred years?  They'll be dead!

That's why you see the GOP so united on this particular issue.
 
2013-03-08 07:14:46 PM
something something RESEARCHERS something something
 
2013-03-08 07:14:59 PM
AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.
 
2013-03-08 07:15:52 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kazan: if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.

Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.


sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.

Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.


WOW. we have satellites (voyager) past the heliopause, and yet we have stuff like this spewed, like the solar winds themselves, to keep facts out of the lil model solar system.. in his mind. Great.
 
2013-03-08 07:16:41 PM

sbking: I guaranty that i know more about this subject than anybody on this thread.

Global warming has nothing to do with human beings or any other animal on this planet - it is the height of arrongance to believe we could do such a thing.


I for one would be very surprised if you know more about anything than anybody.
 
2013-03-08 07:17:34 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.


What's funny is that you think that academics have to worry about staying funded.
 
2013-03-08 07:17:49 PM

oren0: Marcott's data indicates that it took 4,000 years for the world to warm about 1.25 degrees from the end of the ice age to about 7,000 years ago. The same fossil-based data suggest a similar level of warming occurring in just one generation: from the 1920s to the 1940s. Actual thermometer records don't show the rise from the 1920s to the 1940s was quite that big and Marcott said for such recent time periods it is better to use actual thermometer readings than his proxies.

Hey look, it's Michael Mann's Nature Trick(TM) again! Your data is for 11,000 years. Of those, we can only compare 100 to instrumental temperature readings, and those don't line up. It's OK, though, just staple temperature readings on the end of your proxy results and then claim the warming is unprecedented.

Which is more likely? That this proxy is accurate for 10,900 years, but happens to be inaccurate for the only 100 years we can actually check, or that this proxy is crap for the whole period?


There are other accurate measures that are very good at predicting the temperatures over a century old, but you knew that
 
2013-03-08 07:18:41 PM

Infernalist: That's why you see the GOP so united on this particular issue.


And here I was thinking it was just stupidity ... Hanlon's Razor and all.

Maybe we're both right.
 
2013-03-08 07:19:32 PM
We really are the center of the universe, aren't we.
 
2013-03-08 07:21:05 PM

Farking Canuck: Infernalist: That's why you see the GOP so united on this particular issue.

And here I was thinking it was just stupidity ... Hanlon's Razor and all.

Maybe we're both right.


Understanding motivation is key.  With the business interests, it's simple: What makes them money is 'good', what costs them money is 'evil'.

With the religious, it's not that simple.  You have to understand their strange mix of of deliberate ignorance, hatred of science, adherence to tradition and the absolute NEED to maintain their persecution complex.  Because they're the victims here.
 
2013-03-08 07:21:27 PM

Farking Canuck: JRoo: So global warming has saved us from an advancing ice age?

Sweet.

Now we just have to figure out how to slow it down and control it.

This is effectively all true. The problems with is are as follows:

- we know how to control it (manage the greenhouse gas %) but the anti-science movement opposes all actions that will enable us to actually turn it down

- we are already too high

- there is a large lag in the system and we are already going to way overshoot our ideal temperature. It is already too late to stop things from getting bad ... if we act now all we can to is reduce how bad and for how long.

I do small scale reactor controller programming as one of my many jobs and lag is a biatch ... makes control difficult.



There is obviously 'anti-science bias', but the reason there will be no solution is anti-tax bias, at least in the US.  There is ZERO chance of carbon taxes or some similar scheme happening in the US, China, India and most of the world.  It is missing the point to claim 'anti-science' is the issue when it is rejection of the 'solution' of massive tax hikes that is really the issue.
 
2013-03-08 07:21:31 PM
So in other words we  staved off a new ice age that among other thigns  would have lowered sea levels and increased incidents of drought due to so much moisture being locked up in ice.

So it becomes a question of what inevitable climate change are we best able to cope with:

This

www.planetaryvisions.com
or this

productionhausmedia.com
 
2013-03-08 07:21:37 PM

sbking: I guaranty that i know more about this subject than anybody on this thread.

Global warming has nothing to do with human beings or any other animal on this planet - it is the height of arrongance to believe we could do such a thing.


the argument from human insignificance.. that's not new at all! [/sarcasm]

upload.wikimedia.org

10^12 tons. 1,000,000,000,000. TERATONS of Carbon.

Human activity is adding TERATONS of Carbon. It's called the "Law of Extremely Large Numbers". One human is insignificant. 7 billion humans are not.

Stop being a moron.
 
2013-03-08 07:23:38 PM

TV's Vinnie: Duck_of_Doom: To be fair, lots of people advocate eliminating huge groups of people all the time. On any given day, an internet post somewhere will say to kill (whites/blacks/Muslims/Christians/meat eaters/internet users/liberals/Yanks/the poor/the rich). No one with any sense takes them seriously.

Unless you do take them seriously, which is a bigger issue in misunderstanding hyperbole.

The issue isn't whether you or I take this asshole seriously. It's that certain people in positions of power (with the resources to make things happen) ARE taking this asshole seriously.


Okay, I'll bite. Please back up this assertion.
 
2013-03-08 07:23:39 PM
Bah. Just invoke the possibility of this being caused by every possible mechanism not already proven as a non-factor. Like the air friction caused by too many poor people walking around. Or methane caused by too many bean eating illegal immigrants. There. Problem solved.

/A tip of the hat to that Republican Critical Thinking Skills course I took recently.
 
2013-03-08 07:23:47 PM

Kazan: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lets see here, our solar system travels about 23,265,520,000 km. a year. So in the 23,265,520,000 X 11,000 km we have traveled I'm going to say that we have changed locations. Maybe just maybe that has more to do with it then some insects called the human race

if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.

 
2013-03-08 07:23:50 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lets see here, our solar system travels about 23,265,520,000 km. a year. So in the 23,265,520,000 X 11,000 km we have traveled I'm going to say that we have changed locations. Maybe just maybe that has more to do with it then some insects called the human race


cinenthusiast.files.wordpress.com

Great Scott!
 
2013-03-08 07:24:42 PM
You realize you're arguing with paid shills, right? They don't actually give a crap one way or the other, they're actually being paid to troll you.

To the paid shills in this thread: Are there any openings where you work? It seems like a fun job.
 
2013-03-08 07:25:20 PM
How soon until sacrifices to the sun god start?
 
2013-03-08 07:25:35 PM
Remind me why 'facts' matter again?
 
2013-03-08 07:26:04 PM

SN1987a goes boom: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kazan: if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.

Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.


sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.

Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.

Cosmic Background Radiation is at about 4 Kelvin.  You are retarded.


Wait. Is there a fellow Astrophysicist I spy?! (Well, I'm only a Master's student, but meh w/e).
 
2013-03-08 07:26:27 PM
IT WAS THOSE DAMN LIBERALS
 
2013-03-08 07:26:31 PM

FunkOut: How soon until sacrifices to the sun god start?


You haven't made ANY sacrifices to Ra yet?! You're screwed, man.
 
2013-03-08 07:28:01 PM

Raging Thespian: You realize you're arguing with paid shills, right? They don't actually give a crap one way or the other, they're actually being paid to troll you.

To the paid shills in this thread: Are there any openings where you work? It seems like a fun job.


I've read articles from guys who've admitted to being paid trolls.  They say it's pretty much what it appears to be: Mind-dulling, soul-rotting work by people who don't believe what they're posting and are only doing it for the paycheck.

As for me, I'm bored and waiting for dinner to get here.  Plus, for all the paid trolls that do frequent this site, we do have more than a few people who still have their dignity and souls.
 
2013-03-08 07:29:46 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: There is obviously 'anti-science bias', but the reason there will be no solution is anti-tax bias, at least in the US.  There is ZERO chance of carbon taxes or some similar scheme happening in the US, China, India and most of the world.  It is missing the point to claim 'anti-science' is the issue when it is rejection of the 'solution' of massive tax hikes that is really the issue.


There is much that can be done without massive tax hits. Other countries are commercially successful in green industries.

The anti-science propaganda impedes everything from moving in a good direction ... both the expensive solutions and the free change in mind-set that can also have an impact.

The idea that every solution is expensive is part of the anti-science propaganda.
 
2013-03-08 07:30:30 PM
Do you guys mean to tell me that humans may have altered Earth's climate by release millions of years worth of sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere in about 100.?  Do you guy honestly think that depleting the planet's forests have somehow changed the equilibrium that life has evolved around?  Crazy stuff man, crazy.
 
2013-03-08 07:30:32 PM

hasty ambush: So in other words we  staved off a new ice age that among other thigns  would have lowered sea levels and increased incidents of drought due to so much moisture being locked up in ice.

So it becomes a question of what inevitable climate change are we best able to cope with:

This

[www.planetaryvisions.com image 638x359]
or this

[productionhausmedia.com image 640x266]


Being from Canada, I wholeheartedly support option "B".  I REALLY like what it does to Florida.
 
2013-03-08 07:31:30 PM

Kazan: sbking: I guaranty that i know more about this subject than anybody on this thread.

....
Human activity is adding TERATONS of Carbon. It's called the "Law of Extremely Large Numbers". One human is insignificant. 7 billion humans are not.

Stop being a moron.



img855.imageshack.us
 
2013-03-08 07:31:34 PM
1804 - 1927 world population doubled from 1 billion to 2 billion people.

Obvious remedies are obvious.

Stop time.
 
2013-03-08 07:33:22 PM

HaywoodJablonski: Meh. We have too many people anyway. It's time for a good flushing


mimg.ugo.com
These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.
 
2013-03-08 07:33:49 PM
So we're all in agreement, it's the farting then?
 
2013-03-08 07:33:55 PM

TheOther: Stop time.


This assumes time exists.

...

Whoa.
 
2013-03-08 07:34:40 PM

hasty ambush: So in other words we  staved off a new ice age that among other thigns  would have lowered sea levels and increased incidents of drought due to so much moisture being locked up in ice.

So it becomes a question of what inevitable climate change are we best able to cope with:

This

[www.planetaryvisions.com image 638x359]
or this

[productionhausmedia.com image 640x266]


I'm best able to cope with the one that gets rid of Florida.
 
2013-03-08 07:35:04 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.


Ain't that the truth.

Thousands of years go by and it's still the same arrangement of human society.  Every system of rule requires a priest / intellectual class to support its power.

FunkOut: How soon until sacrifices to the sun god start?


Sometime after we start paying carbon indulgences.
 
2013-03-08 07:35:47 PM
Anyone notice we killed off the American Bison and dug up the prairie around the same time everything went into an upswing.
 
2013-03-08 07:36:01 PM
A single species irrevocably changing the Earth's atmosphere is not unheard of.
To wit:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
Blue green algae, people.
Teh Google is your friend.
 
2013-03-08 07:37:29 PM

leadmetal: HotIgneous Intruder: AGW is directly proportional to the number of professional academic who have made their financial existence dependent upon its viability as a hypothesis.

Ain't that the truth.

Thousands of years go by and it's still the same arrangement of human society.  Every system of rule requires a priest / intellectual class to support its power.

FunkOut: How soon until sacrifices to the sun god start?

Sometime after we start paying carbon indulgences.


Just curious, but are you actually equating priests with scientists?
 
2013-03-08 07:37:34 PM

Farking Canuck: Ow! That was my feelings!: There is obviously 'anti-science bias', but the reason there will be no solution is anti-tax bias, at least in the US.  There is ZERO chance of carbon taxes or some similar scheme happening in the US, China, India and most of the world.  It is missing the point to claim 'anti-science' is the issue when it is rejection of the 'solution' of massive tax hikes that is really the issue.

There is much that can be done without massive tax hits. Other countries are commercially successful in green industries.

The anti-science propaganda impedes everything from moving in a good direction ... both the expensive solutions and the free change in mind-set that can also have an impact.

The idea that every solution is expensive is part of the anti-science propaganda.



ok, but that is not really the argument I hear here in the States.  Any legislative solution is all about massive tax increases that have zero chance of becoming reality.  Maybe a change in tactics and message is needed.
 
2013-03-08 07:39:00 PM

efgeise: SN1987a goes boom: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kazan: if you really think this is the cause, then you are a jackass.

Wow with debating skills like that I am forced to recant.


sigdiamond2000: We're in the hotter part of space now.

Could be. Cosmic background radiation does differ from point to point in the vacuum. And if you really believe that we have discovered and understand all the forces in play in our universe than you are just plain wrong.

Cosmic Background Radiation is at about 4 Kelvin.  You are retarded.

Wait. Is there a fellow Astrophysicist I spy?! (Well, I'm only a Master's student, but meh w/e).


Homogeneity and Isotropism, biatches.
 
2013-03-08 07:39:22 PM
I mean, seriously. Was Giedi Prime really that bad of a planet? Everyone had a job, living a good life until they ran out of fingers, toes or eyes, and best of all, free oxygen cylinders! And the airborne soot protected everyone from the dangers of their sun! Win Win!
 
2013-03-08 07:39:42 PM

Farking Canuck: There is much that can be done without massive tax hits.


When they start talking about globally banning the combustion engine we'll be moving in the right direction. As soon as those are illegal alternatives will naturally appear, and all car company research will go towards making them better and better.

What, that's too extreme? I thought this was an extreme problem which had to be dealt with immediately?
 
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