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(The New York Times)   Employers have plenty of positions to fill. The problem is you're just not good enough for them   (nytimes.com) divider line 252
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3461 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Mar 2013 at 2:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-08 02:48:32 PM
Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 years experience with the companies proprietary software suite? You don't say....
 
2013-03-08 02:53:24 PM
We've been through this before.  They compain they can't find skilled workers to:
1) Deflect political blame for their lack of hiring and training,
2) Try to fill 3-4 skilled positions with one person,
3) Justify outsourcing,
4) Lobby for a vast expansion of the H1-B visa program,
5) Possibly qualify for various tax breaks and other government goodies (while claiming to be libertarian the whole time)
etc.

You can almost fill a Bingo card with excuses at this point.
 
2013-03-08 02:54:03 PM
I miss the good old days when HR hacks would post jobs asking for more years of experience with a product than it was actually invented.
 
2013-03-08 02:55:18 PM

Voiceofreason01: Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 years experience with the companies proprietary software suite? You don't say....


This.

I have a job, but I know people who have had difficulty getting hired places.  A good number of employers who are complaining about the severe trouble of finding qualified personnel fall into two categories:
1)  What you mention above.  Having a job that requires a significant bit of experience and/or education but refusing to offer to pay for the required qualifications.
2)  Refuses to invest in training their employees.  Yes, its hard to find someone with just the right mix of skill A, training B, program C that perfectly matches the spot you are attempting to fill.  Hire someone capable, take the time to train them, and move on.  Its better than letting that slot lay fallow for 6 months.

Qualified personnel are out there, they just aren't desperate enough to take a drastically underpaid position.  Trainable people are out there, but if you want someone to know your damnably specific software suite you just might have to show them the ropes for a month.  Painful, I know.
 
2013-03-08 02:55:19 PM
Voiceofreason01: Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 five years experience with the companies company's proprietary software suite? You don't say....

FTFY.

/Unemployed and looking.
//Why yes, Communications; how did you guess?
 
2013-03-08 02:56:34 PM

Voiceofreason01: Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 years experience with the companies proprietary software suite? You don't say....


Robert Half staffing released a survey of CFOs, where 60% claimed difficulty in finding financial analysts and accountants.

meanwhile, there are twice as many accounting grads as there are open positions, and wages are utter shiat. saw a listing on robert half's website yesterday for a financial analyst with 5 years of experience in northern new jersey. $18 an hour, on contract.
 
2013-03-08 02:59:52 PM
This is how Capitalism works.
 
2013-03-08 03:02:32 PM
Bullshiat. I can run a fryolator and a dishwasher... how hard can it be to write software?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-08 03:02:49 PM
I worked for a startup that was like that. We needed somebody for QA. But the hiring manager insisted on waiting for a candidate who was an elite coder as well as elite QA. We never found one.
 
2013-03-08 03:04:53 PM
ftfa: "Like other job seekers around the country, he has been through marathon interview sessions. Mr. Sullivan has received eighth- and ninth-round callbacks for positions at three different companies. Two of those companies, as it turned out, ultimately decided not to hire anyone, he said; instead they put their openings "on hold" because of budget pressures."

What a country!
 
2013-03-08 03:14:45 PM

Voiceofreason01: Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 years experience with the companies proprietary software suite? You don't say....


Saw pretty much that at a local Philadelphia university. Minimum of bachelor's degree, but master's preferred, and at least 5 years experience.  Starting pay was $45k.  In Philly, which isn't known for having a low cost of living.
 
2013-03-08 03:16:03 PM
A comment on the Yahoo article about this issue was brilliant:

Companies want 20-year-olds with 30-years experience who will work for only $8.50 an hour.
 
2013-03-08 03:21:28 PM

sure haven't: eighth- and ninth-round callbacks


The fark.

1) Ship in Resume
2) Phone Screen/local interviews (Google and Microsoft get to do 2 of these, but they're special)
3) All-day Onsite
4) You're hired.

* No guarantee of moving from Step N to Step N+1

8th and 9th round?  The fark are they doing?
 
2013-03-08 03:21:55 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: Starting pay was $45k. In Philly, which isn't known for having a low cost of living.


Yet it pays more than $0k which is what an unemployed person is making.

What's the issue?
 
2013-03-08 03:25:17 PM
Show them your "can-do" spirit and take several executives hostage until they hire you.
 
2013-03-08 03:29:11 PM
I tried to jump to another job recently.  Had a phone screening on a Monday with an HR rep for about an hour that went well. Wednesday I got a call saying 'we want to bring you in for interviews with 5 or 6 people.'  HR person said she had to scheudle them and would call be back the following Monday.    A week and a half later I sent an email to check in.  Another week after that I got an email back from saying they had lots and lots of more qualified candidates, and thanks for my interest in the company.    Uhhhh, wha?

Kind of glad that didnt work out if that's the kind of stoopid going on there.
 
2013-03-08 03:33:00 PM

dumbobruni: Voiceofreason01: Some businesses are having trouble hiring people for entry level pay that have a Masters degree, 15 years of experience and at least 5 years experience with the companies proprietary software suite? You don't say....

Robert Half staffing released a survey of CFOs, where 60% claimed difficulty in finding financial analysts and accountants.

meanwhile, there are twice as many accounting grads as there are open positions, and wages are utter shiat. saw a listing on robert half's website yesterday for a financial analyst with 5 years of experience in northern new jersey. $18 an hour, on contract.


RH is notorious for that. I wont even talk to them. The second they tell me who is calling I tell them I am not interested.
 
2013-03-08 03:38:33 PM
This is old news, it's well known (sad but true) that employers are making impossibly fanciful wish-list sets of requirements for jobs, offering insultingly low salaries, then wondering why they have so few applicants and the few they do get won't work for the pay they offer.

I remember years ago, there was a job I was trying to get.  I had a B.A. in a related field, I had worked several summers in an internship doing the job, I had lots of job-related skills and recommendations from people in the industry (because of the internship).   The problem was, every job I could find was listed as "Entry Level" and required 2+ years of experience, and most required a specialized Associate's Degree in the field, which only one college in the state even offered.

Thinking it had to be a typo that they were listing "Entry Level" and "2 years experience required" in the same listing, I applied to many of them despite having maybe only about 6 months of experience (from my various internships combined).

I usually didn't even get a callback, I got interviews for about 2% of the applications I put in, of the dozen or so interviews I got, no job offers. . .but the real zinger was the occasional angry/irate call from an employer or employment agency angry at me for even applying when I didn't have 2 years experience.  "They are called requirements for a reason, you know!" I remember one yelled at me to say.  I noted back how could it be "entry level" and require years of prior experience, and if that is entry level, where is somebody supposed to get the experience?  "Not our problem" the agency told me.

Summed up a lot of our employment problems right then and there as far as I was concerned.
 
2013-03-08 03:39:28 PM

dumbobruni: meanwhile, there are twice as many accounting grads as there are open positions, and wages are utter shiat


Supply, meet demand.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-08 03:41:22 PM
Yet it pays more than $0k which is what an unemployed person is making.

Unemployed people make about $500 per week. Link
 
2013-03-08 03:42:10 PM

DSF6969: A comment on the Yahoo article about this issue was brilliant:

Companies want 20-year-olds with 30-years experience who will work for only $8.50 an hour.


Don't worry.  They'll get someone for 8.50/hour.  Spell it H1-B.  Ideally, they'll hire 4-5 of these, and rent them a furnished room somewhere close to the office.

8.50/hr is about 6/hr more than they make in the old-country, and since they're already living with zero possessions, (car, mortgage, insurance), they're happy to do whatever you tell them as they're still able to wire $40 a month home in savings, which is a middle class income in some parts of the world, if you define middle class as tar-paper shack and working bicycle.

(Don't expect initiative, problem solving, or risk-taking, one-false move and it's back to India).

/see a lot of these lately.
// qualified means willing to work a 100K/yr job for $10/hour.
 
2013-03-08 03:45:24 PM
I apply to many jobs each week and have over 20 years experience in what I do.  I see ads for my field that want a BS and are offering $10 an hour to start.  It's absolutely ridiculous.  This article is spot on that jobs are supposedly there, but unfilled, because the company is holding out for the perfect candidate, except that candidate isn't there, they already have a good job.
 
2013-03-08 03:49:09 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: Qualified personnel are out there, they just aren't desperate enough to take a drastically underpaid position. Trainable people are out there, but if you want someone to know your damnably specific software suite you just might have to show them the ropes for a month. Painful, I know.


This is basically it right here. They don't want to train anymore, because training costs the company money. They want you to hit the ground running and know exactly what to do with no supervision or instruction, and begin making the company money immediately from day one.

And it's not like they don't have the money. The problem is too much of the money is being sucked up by the management and executive class, and they'd rather skimp on labor than reduce their own pay. When a company is looking to save money the first thing they always look at are employee wages.
 
2013-03-08 03:49:43 PM
#1 requirement:  take less money than you are willing to accept (or are able to live on).
 
2013-03-08 03:50:12 PM
Why do employers let HR's irrational psychobabble dictate their hiring process? When I was hired by my employer in late 2007, HR only handled the paperwork. Now it's a farking theater every time we interview someone.
 
2013-03-08 03:51:14 PM
"Hi, Amanda! Thanks for taking the time to call me and send an E-mail today. I would rather throw myself into a volcano than work for Comcast. Other acceptable alternatives include having a fatal heart attack while playing drums for a 'Hootie and the Blowfish' cover band, or being buried alive by the cast of 'Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.' Thanks for your time!"
 
2013-03-08 03:53:57 PM
If they'd stop requiring expertise in every acronym the HR person ever heard of and 10 years experience on platforms that have only been around for three, they might find some qualified candidates.
 
2013-03-08 03:55:26 PM

gonzojohn: I miss the good old days when HR hacks would post jobs asking for more years of experience with a product than it was actually invented.


What old days?  That still happens on a regular basis.
 
2013-03-08 03:59:48 PM
I've run into this quite a bit.  I interviewed for one position last fall and that positions is STILL being advertised.  I could see the fear in the eyes of my inteviewers.  They knew if they chose the wrong candidtate, they would be out the door next.
 
2013-03-08 04:01:57 PM

meyerkev: sure haven't: eighth- and ninth-round callbacks

The fark.

1) Ship in Resume
2) Phone Screen/local interviews (Google and Microsoft get to do 2 of these, but they're special)
3) All-day Onsite
4) You're hired.

* No guarantee of moving from Step N to Step N+1

8th and 9th round?  The fark are they doing?


About three years ago, I was out of work for about 14 months. At about the 9 month point, I had an interview with a company.   It was something like:

1) Phone Screen
2) 4-hour in-person interviews with 7 different people, 2 coding tests
3) Week later, 2 1/2 hour in-person interview with 4 people, 2 coding tests
4) Week later, 45 minute phone screen
5) "We'd like another round of in-person interviews"  I passed.  fark that.
 
2013-03-08 04:03:38 PM
CSB:
Worked a seasonal job ($10/hr) from Thanksgiving to Xmas, about seven weeks.
First day: "We don't have time to train you to pick orders. Go load trucks."
Loaded trucks for seven weeks.
Last day, last thing the little bossie said to me: "To bad you don't know how to pick."

Good times and prosperity in passive-agressive Merikuh!
/Yes, I have a bachelor's degree.
 
2013-03-08 04:03:50 PM
My father went on 5 different interviews for Microcenter seeking a $10 an hour job.   He is 60 years old and he could tell they didn't want to hire him, but he has more PC experience than anyone at the store.  They kept passing him around to different managers and he answered all of their questions until they handed him over to a guy that asked nothing but Apple Airplay questions.

Later I went to the store and found the guy that won the job.  He told me to go to the Apple store at the mall for anything Apple related.
 
2013-03-08 04:04:43 PM
The requirement I saw recently blew me away. They required you had experience with their incident tracking software. How freaking hard can it be to teach someone how to use a freaking database? Even if you did have experience with it, that doesn't mean they have the same setup or policies.
 
2013-03-08 04:07:51 PM
some HR folks are boneheads with hiring.

At the same time don't show up for a sales position interview with neck tats and 1 1/2 inch guages in your ears.
 
2013-03-08 04:12:43 PM
The problem I have had with the company I work for until recently was that they were hiring too many peoples friends, relatives , friends of friends, church people etc. And most of them for some reason had issues with working on a loading dock or mailroom and got pissed that after 2 weeks they were not made a VP. But recently things have changed for the better the boss quit/got fired for being a idiot. The downside to that is Ive pretty much spent the last 5 weeks helping to clear up the last 2 years of his "record keeping". It was awful. I did get a raise for all my work and Ive been racking up mad OT every day til we get everyone trained.
 
2013-03-08 04:15:54 PM

meyerkev: 8th and 9th round? The fark are they doing?


Google is famous for doing shiat like that, even before the economy tanked.  And some of their later interviews can be 3 or more hours, where they have you work on stuff with existing employees so they can get a feel as to how you'd mesh with their existing staff.
 
2013-03-08 04:17:23 PM
I had a job that I technically didn't qualify (didn't have a degree) despite that the job title was created specifically for me and my assistant, and I had direct input as to what the required skill set was for the job title.

// I said "degree or x years of equivalent experience" and the "equivalent experience" part got dropped.
 
2013-03-08 04:19:43 PM

bgilmore5: The requirement I saw recently blew me away. They required you had experience with their incident tracking software. How freaking hard can it be to teach someone how to use a freaking database? Even if you did have experience with it, that doesn't mean they have the same setup or policies.


Exactly.  In my latest position, I was by no means a seasoned Lotus Notes admin, but I knew enough about it to get my foot in the door.  Within a month I was handling almost every email work order for a company of 6000+.
 
2013-03-08 04:22:48 PM
Combine HR dept's lack of understanding WRT technical details of the fields they hire for, along with their complete lack of knowledge of the translatable qualities across, for example, say 4-5 different flavors of SQL, with the possibility that almost any fool can purchase test cheats/certifications/university degrees and a population of working stiffs scared to death to make a mistake/decision that might cost them their tenuous employment in these less than stellar times... and we have this death spiraling grapple we call the great recession.  Ta Da!
 
2013-03-08 04:23:37 PM
ianthetexan:
/Unemployed and looking.
//Why yes, Communications; how did you guess?


You said "Communications."
 
2013-03-08 04:26:15 PM
It could just be that you people suck.

// Remember that come summer there will be a lot of field hand jobs in Georgia
 
2013-03-08 04:27:21 PM

CujoQuarrel: It could just be that you people suck.

// Remember that come summer there will be a lot of field hand jobs in Georgia


Repeat from 1865?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-08 04:28:11 PM
guilt by association: Why do employers let HR's irrational psychobabble dictate their hiring process?

In big companies corporate lawyers have taken over the process. Corporate lawyers will do anything to avoid a lawsuit. Every hire is a potential discrimination lawsuit by the people who were not hired. The hiring process is designed to make such lawsuits difficult. You can't say "experienced in Fark database management." You have to say "15 years of Fark database management experience" so there is an objective standard for screening candidates. You can't make up programming tests during the interview. You have to use a consistent test with an objective scoring method.
 
2013-03-08 04:30:08 PM

ZAZ: Yet it pays more than $0k which is what an unemployed person is making.

Unemployed people make about $500 per week. Link


Your math is a little off -- the average of those states is $413, and if you weight it by population it's $419.

/MA's benefits are rather generous though, but of course it's only going to last so long
 
2013-03-08 04:32:56 PM
Luckily, in about a decade the majority of the workforce will be under-30s that don't know that $30k is a shiat salary and will gladly take it.
 
2013-03-08 04:33:55 PM
Yup. Still seeing 70K positions offering 35K.

Get real, companies.
 
2013-03-08 04:36:16 PM
I thought the problem was Fartbama.  Indeed, I have been assured repeatedly that this is the case.
 
2013-03-08 04:38:50 PM

Weigard: Luckily, in about a decade the majority of the workforce will be under-30s that don't know that $30k is a shiat salary and will gladly take it.


$30K's bad?
 
2013-03-08 04:38:58 PM
Glad to be working a job that requires several months of OJT to become remotely proficient at it. No insane experience requirements other than minimum of what is absolutely required to succeed in my line of work. When we hire people, we're looking more for people willing and capable to learn rather than what they've already done.

Still need to have some electrical troubleshooting experience at least, but we're willing to work to improve that knowledge assuming the person can actually learn.
 
2013-03-08 04:42:09 PM
As someone who will be having his last day at his employer of 5 years in 2 weeks...sob.

//40+ jobs applied to in the last 2 months, 2 calls back, one of which is a phone interview scheduled for the 12th.  I hate interviews.
 
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