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(C|Net)   Pandora finally figuring out their sustainable business model, and it's not from premium subscriptions   (news.cnet.com) divider line 37
    More: Interesting, Pandora Media Inc.  
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4456 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Mar 2013 at 11:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-08 10:51:27 AM
It's not from playing 16 live versions of the same goddamn song, either.
 
2013-03-08 10:58:50 AM
I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.
 
2013-03-08 11:11:17 AM
And the thing about Pandora is that I'm used to radio ads.  So it doesn't bother me much.  And they keep them fairly short and spaced out.  So I'm glad they were able to make money without totally ditching what made them popular.
 
2013-03-08 11:26:22 AM

Thoguh: And the thing about Pandora is that I'm used to radio ads.  So it doesn't bother me much.  And they keep them fairly short and spaced out.  So I'm glad they were able to make money without totally ditching what made them popular.


I found the ad placement to be inappropriate.  Like you are listening to something quite calm, like folk music...then BALM, BONK, BONK, BONK, WHROOOM, WHROOM..."IS YOUR HOT WATER HEATER MAKING FUNNY NOISES?  CALL THE PLUMBING PROS AT 555-1010 TO SOLVE YOUR HOT WATER PROBLEMS TODAY!!!!!"  WONK, WONK, WONK!!!!!  VROOOOMMMM......
 
2013-03-08 11:34:26 AM

Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.


Me too. I have discovered some really good music because of it. The only thing I don't like is that "Are you still listening?" pop-up.
 
2013-03-08 11:35:36 AM

SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.

Me too. I have discovered some really good music because of it. The only thing I don't like is that "Are you still listening?" pop-up.


I run mine through my bluray and phone only and have never encountered that.
 
2013-03-08 11:46:52 AM

Endive Wombat: SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.

Me too. I have discovered some really good music because of it. The only thing I don't like is that "Are you still listening?" pop-up.

I run mine through my bluray and phone only and have never encountered that.


It only occurs when running the Pandora One app on a PC. I use that because it has the best sound in my house and fills the entire house with music while I'm working in the home office.
 
2013-03-08 11:50:43 AM

SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.

Me too. I have discovered some really good music because of it. The only thing I don't like is that "Are you still listening?" pop-up.

I run mine through my bluray and phone only and have never encountered that.

It only occurs when running the Pandora One app on a PC. I use that because it has the best sound in my house and fills the entire house with music while I'm working in the home office.


The EULA specifies that you can only fill one room no greater than 12' x 12' with music.  It's people like you who are ruining it for the rest of us.
 
2013-03-08 11:55:39 AM

Lochsteppe: SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: SnarfVader: Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.

Me too. I have discovered some really good music because of it. The only thing I don't like is that "Are you still listening?" pop-up.

I run mine through my bluray and phone only and have never encountered that.

It only occurs when running the Pandora One app on a PC. I use that because it has the best sound in my house and fills the entire house with music while I'm working in the home office.

The EULA specifies that you can only fill one room no greater than 12' x 12' with music.  It's people like you who are ruining it for the rest of us.


Um... Yeah... I guess I'll have to sound proof the office.
 
2013-03-08 11:56:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4sA7l9TC-0

My favorite song discovered off of Pandora so far.
 
2013-03-08 12:08:19 PM

Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.


Agreed. And its set theory is pretty spot on. I started a Julee Cruise station 'cause I'm loving me some Twin Peaks right now, and it's offered up a dozen bands in styles close to hers without being identical. Bliss.
 
2013-03-08 12:10:28 PM
4 billion listeners; really?
 
2013-03-08 12:18:35 PM

BarkingUnicorn: 4 billion listeners; really?


Apparently, dogs, cats, snakes, guinea pigs, and insects living in your walls count as listeners now.
 
2013-03-08 12:20:30 PM

BarkingUnicorn: 4 billion listeners; really?


Listener hours.
 
2013-03-08 12:48:37 PM
And losing even more money than before.
 
2013-03-08 12:56:45 PM
Is that the ads that I don't see because I keep the webpage minimized or the ones that I race to mute when they play?
 
kab
2013-03-08 01:08:22 PM
DRTA, but is the answer "C. Continuing to pay artists next to nothing"?
 
2013-03-08 01:18:55 PM
FTA - "advertising revenue jumped 51 percent" and "company's losses widened 78 percent"

Yep, completely sustainable there.
 
2013-03-08 01:20:46 PM
My interest in pandora was mainly from the music genome thing.

In theory, it's nice, in practice, it sort of fails (there's not much variety in my playlist and some songs that get played are not similar to any of the other songs).

It would be nice of their whole music genome stuff was just available to search IE, I could input "syncopathic" or "arpeggio" and get the appropriate types of music back.

Sadly, it seems like they've totally focused on streaming and I can't see how to get the tags from their site at a glance anymore. And one of their sister projects (MusicBrainz) doesn't seem to have that info anymore.

So at the end, pandora is just another streaming site that's becoming more restrictive and the thing that made it unique is now buried.
 
2013-03-08 01:20:50 PM
kab:
DRTA, but is the answer "C. Continuing to pay artists next to nothing"?

...which is what every radio station in the world has done, historically.

The people complaining about Pandora's (and the other streaming stations) low payment-per-play structure are comparing it to radio - but don't realize that radio stations pay a very, very small amount of money per song played on air.

Even with the new, lower royalty structure that Pandora and the other internet radio companies want to pay, artists make a LOT more money per song play than they do from commercial radio.
 
2013-03-08 01:43:22 PM
Anyone else here run a home music server? I just switched from Ampache to Subsonic the other day, and so far I'm very impressed. It's quick, there's an awesome HTML5 player for it, and the iOS app is really slick.
 
kab
2013-03-08 01:45:26 PM

cirby: kab:
DRTA, but is the answer "C. Continuing to pay artists next to nothing"?

...which is what every radio station in the world has done, historically.

The people complaining about Pandora's (and the other streaming stations) low payment-per-play structure are comparing it to radio - but don't realize that radio stations pay a very, very small amount of money per song played on air.

Even with the new, lower royalty structure that Pandora and the other internet radio companies want to pay, artists make a LOT more money per song play than they do from commercial radio.


What radio does / did seems a bit irrelevant to the conversation, seeing how much effectively lower costs are for Pandora, how much more customer driven the listening is, etc.
 
2013-03-08 01:52:16 PM
I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark 'em
 
2013-03-08 02:17:54 PM

chevydeuce: I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark 'em


oh man I heard Drew was going to start streaming a spoken version of the politics tab too
 
2013-03-08 02:18:34 PM

kab: DRTA, but is the answer "C. Continuing to pay artists next to nothing"?


I'm sorry, but you seem to be dreadfully ill informed. By the nature of Pandora being an internet radio service, they pay almost 55% of their annual revenues to royalty payments - especially performance royalties, which are not paid by terrestrial radio stations. By contrast, radio stations pay around 15% of their revenues to royalties (and none for performance royalties).

Pandora, in FY 2012, generated annual revenues of $274.3 million. That means that Pandora paid the artists and publishers $150.865 million in royalties in 2012, and that's before accounting for taxes and overhead.

If you think that Pandora is paying artists next to nothing, then you're misinformed and ignorant.
 
2013-03-08 02:22:07 PM

chevydeuce: I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark '


I'm expecting to hit my limit this weekend too, I downloaded the Iheartradio app.  I've only tested it for maybe 30 minutes, but looks like it will make a fine replacement.
 
2013-03-08 02:45:33 PM

RexTalionis: kab: DRTA, but is the answer "C. Continuing to pay artists next to nothing"?

I'm sorry, but you seem to be dreadfully ill informed. By the nature of Pandora being an internet radio service, they pay almost 55% of their annual revenues to royalty payments - especially performance royalties, which are not paid by terrestrial radio stations. By contrast, radio stations pay around 15% of their revenues to royalties (and none for performance royalties).

Pandora, in FY 2012, generated annual revenues of $274.3 million. That means that Pandora paid the artists and publishers $150.865 million in royalties in 2012, and that's before accounting for taxes and overhead.

If you think that Pandora is paying artists next to nothing, then you're misinformed and ignorant.


They cut a $3 million royalty check to Drake alone last year.

Some people seem to be of the belief that a business model should pay artists when there is no actual demand for their product.    Sadly, that model will likely never be invented, so they should probably stop holding their breath.
 
2013-03-08 04:10:49 PM
kab:
What radio does / did seems a bit irrelevant to the conversation, seeing how much effectively lower costs are for Pandora, how much more customer driven the listening is, etc.

...which is why Pandora pays so very much more to the artists they play on their system. More to the point, the payments go to the artists whose music was actually played - and not spread out according to a fairly obscure formula like the musicians who are paid through BMI/ASCAP/whatever for radio.

Comparing Pandora to radio is very, very relevant - you should always compare a new part of a market to the part they end up replacing.
 
2013-03-08 04:48:19 PM

Mister Buttons: chevydeuce: I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark '

I'm expecting to hit my limit this weekend too, I downloaded the Iheartradio app.  I've only tested it for maybe 30 minutes, but looks like it will make a fine replacement.


Grooveshark and Spotify are better
 
2013-03-08 04:49:02 PM

RexTalionis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4sA7l9TC-0

My favorite song discovered off of Pandora so far.


That sounds nothing like the original. Where was the simulated bagpipe guitar riff? And the periodic shouts of "SHOT!" or whatever the hell those haggis-gobblers were saying?
 
2013-03-08 04:54:04 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: Mister Buttons: chevydeuce: I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark '

I'm expecting to hit my limit this weekend too, I downloaded the Iheartradio app.  I've only tested it for maybe 30 minutes, but looks like it will make a fine replacement.

Grooveshark and Spotify are better


I prefer mog.com but those are good too
 
2013-03-08 05:00:34 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Princess Ryans Knickers: Mister Buttons: chevydeuce: I'll burn through the 40 hour limit probably by about 2PM this afternoon...at that point, I will simply look for another (free) radio app...I don't pay five bucks to be on Fark and I'm not going to pay to listen to background office noise that I can get for free from an FM radio...fark '

I'm expecting to hit my limit this weekend too, I downloaded the Iheartradio app.  I've only tested it for maybe 30 minutes, but looks like it will make a fine replacement.

Grooveshark and Spotify are better

I prefer mog.com but those are good too


Pretty much what I was expecting....many other options out there....Pandora offers a good product and if it goes away for me, I'll miss it...but not enough to pay for it when there are multiple other places out there that offer basically the same thing for nothing....
 
2013-03-08 06:24:45 PM

Endive Wombat: I love Pandora.  I pay the $30something dollars a year to keep it ad free, and it is worth every damn penny.  Their music library is extensive and I like it.


On mobile i seem to get like three adverts an hour with free.
 
2013-03-08 08:49:17 PM
Increasing losses does not equal sustainable.
 
2013-03-08 10:38:36 PM
What ads? I don't have a premium account either, and I never see or hear ads. I did for some time on my phone, but I installed an app to block location/tracking data and they stopped. I mainly use Pandora on the PC anyway.
 
2013-03-09 03:00:24 AM
too late, Pandora.  You jumped the shark and I jumped to Grooveshark.
 
2013-03-09 11:11:08 AM

Plant Rights Activist: too late, Pandora.  You jumped the shark and I jumped to Grooveshark.


Hey, thanks for telling me of this. I have Pandora One and do like the service, but I can't seem to get certain things done, like merge stations or add collections to the station I'm listening to, so I end up hearing the same 50 songs.
 
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