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(Newser)   Behind Microsoft's $732M fine: a snitch named Google   (newser.com) divider line 49
    More: Interesting, Google, Microsoft, Financial Times, web browsers  
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4318 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Mar 2013 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-07 12:40:47 PM
Wonder if they'll snitch to the BBB about microsoft's Bing it On commercial featuring the website "www.contoso.com" as it's stop result for a random search for napa valley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contoso
 
2013-03-07 12:40:58 PM
My only beef with Google is that already checked box for Chrome in freeware. The average person, 90% of the time have no clue WTF it is or where it came from.
 
2013-03-07 12:41:39 PM
Not really surprising for it to be Google and Opera.
Besides having a comparatively big interest because they're the only or at least the biggest for-profit companies offering browsers for Windows, they and the Mozilla folks were probably the ones in the best position to notice the problem:

Assuming that the Windows browser selection dialog downloads other browsers directly from URLs (and servers) provided by the other browser makers, they've probably seen a pretty sudden drop in downloads for those URLs and started looking into possible problems.
 
2013-03-07 01:00:44 PM
"don't be evil" bla bla bla... and all that...

I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much I find. Sure Microsoft did it's share but in today's world, I just find that if Microsoft would have had Google and Apple mentality then... they would have destroyed everything they could have.
 
2013-03-07 01:03:03 PM
you mean...

you mean...

They were Scroogled???
 
2013-03-07 01:04:15 PM

The Voice of Doom: Not really surprising for it to be Google and Opera.
Besides having a comparatively big interest because they're the only or at least the biggest for-profit companies offering browsers for Windows, they and the Mozilla folks were probably the ones in the best position to notice the problem:

Assuming that the Windows browser selection dialog downloads other browsers directly from URLs (and servers) provided by the other browser makers, they've probably seen a pretty sudden drop in downloads for those URLs and started looking into possible problems.


Well Google has a double interest, because other browsers (including but not limited to Chrome) include several that will default to Google, or ask first, and thus profit them directly via more search ads provided given that most default IE users will also default to Bing through the same inaction/lack of technical knowledge. They might even disproportionately click and buy from ads when searching compared to those with more technical/IT knowledge that already know and use the other options.
 
2013-03-07 01:04:30 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: My only beef with Google is that already checked box for Chrome in freeware. The average person, 90% of the time have no clue WTF it is or where it came from.


Now in English
 
2013-03-07 01:25:33 PM

imfallen_angel: I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much


Yeah, they're way too popular for cool people to like them.
 
2013-03-07 01:31:21 PM
this was a string of errors that led to this.  where was the QA guy?  where were the lawyers following through with the instruction.  a long list of personnel failures led to this, but they will probably blame it on some guy in middle management and fire him
 
2013-03-07 02:26:52 PM

ltdanman44: where was the QA guy?


Hyderabad?
 
2013-03-07 02:51:20 PM
Number of actual customers that gave a fark?  zero.
 
2013-03-07 02:52:26 PM

poot_rootbeer: ltdanman44: where was the QA guy?

Hyderabad?


Nagesh...is that you?
 
2013-03-07 02:53:27 PM
How god damn lazy do you have to be to reuse the exact same headline?  Have some creativity, for Christ's sake.
 
2013-03-07 03:02:54 PM
Can I install a Internet Explorer or another browser on the Chromebooks? Otherwise this looks like a petty, inconsistent and hypocritical stance...
 
2013-03-07 03:16:12 PM

imfallen_angel: "don't be evil" bla bla bla... and all that...

I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much I find. Sure Microsoft did it's share but in today's world, I just find that if Microsoft would have had Google and Apple mentality then... they would have destroyed everything they could have.


which tells me you are younger than 30 and have no idea the damage Microsoft did in the Bill Gates era.  The fuzzy wuzzy philanthropist of today was once the most ruthless and amoral man in Silicon Valley and thought nothing of breaking any law he needed to to destroy a rival for profit or sheer spite.
 
2013-03-07 03:44:00 PM
It's a joke lawsuit/agreement and is not relevant in today's world. Obviously Microsoft did not bribe the correct officials or donate to the correct political party.

You want to know what is more annoying? The fact that installing google Chrome hijacks your default browser setting and makes it a relative pain to switch back to a different browser...THAT should be illegal.
 
2013-03-07 03:50:58 PM

Magorn: imfallen_angel: "don't be evil" bla bla bla... and all that...

I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much I find. Sure Microsoft did it's share but in today's world, I just find that if Microsoft would have had Google and Apple mentality then... they would have destroyed everything they could have.

which tells me you are younger than 30 and have no idea the damage Microsoft did in the Bill Gates era.  The fuzzy wuzzy philanthropist of today was once the most ruthless and amoral man in Silicon Valley and thought nothing of breaking any law he needed to to destroy a rival for profit or sheer spite.


... Because those silicon valley guys were all SAINTS!

I'm no fan of MS, but I'm extremely glad they won that battle. The vision for the internet put forth by guys like Steve Case or even Steve "my way or the highway" Jobs was terrifying.
 
2013-03-07 03:56:48 PM

MilesTeg: installing google Chrome hijacks your default browser setting and makes it a relative pain to switch back to a different browser...THAT should be illegal.


I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that on any operating system. It prompts you for a decision to set default browser just like every other browser on every OS.
 
2013-03-07 03:59:21 PM

waterrockets: imfallen_angel: I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much

Yeah, they're way too popular for cool people to like them.


Shut up, shill. They're still not going to have sex with you.
 
2013-03-07 04:01:13 PM

jonny_q: MilesTeg: installing google Chrome hijacks your default browser setting and makes it a relative pain to switch back to a different browser...THAT should be illegal.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that on any operating system. It prompts you for a decision to set default browser just like every other browser on every OS.


Forget it. He's rolling.
 
2013-03-07 04:01:57 PM

Magorn: which tells me you are younger than 30 and have no idea the damage Microsoft did in the Bill Gates era. The fuzzy wuzzy philanthropist of today was once the most ruthless and amoral man in Silicon Valley and thought nothing of breaking any law he needed to to destroy a rival for profit or sheer spite.


well, you are so wrong that it's funny... I long for the under 30 years...

And your rose coloured glasses doesn't help the fact that... well...

leviosaurus: Magorn: imfallen_angel: "don't be evil" bla bla bla... and all that...

I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much I find. Sure Microsoft did it's share but in today's world, I just find that if Microsoft would have had Google and Apple mentality then... they would have destroyed everything they could have.

which tells me you are younger than 30 and have no idea the damage Microsoft did in the Bill Gates era.  The fuzzy wuzzy philanthropist of today was once the most ruthless and amoral man in Silicon Valley and thought nothing of breaking any law he needed to to destroy a rival for profit or sheer spite.

... Because those silicon valley guys were all SAINTS!

I'm no fan of MS, but I'm extremely glad they won that battle. The vision for the internet put forth by guys like Steve Case or even Steve "my way or the highway" Jobs was terrifying.



THIS.

As I stated, MS did a lot of nasty things that I hate as it destroyed a lot of things that were better, that could have been better, but at the same time, it prevented a lot of other crap.

My point is... Google and Apple are more vicious than MS ever was, but the biggest difference is that they've managed to bend people over their desks, fark them inside out, go ATM, and the people ask for more.

Not to say that all their products are crap either, just the mentality they have, and in a way I understand Google being this way otherwise they'd never would have survived, but still... It's hard to defend one without defending the other.  It's the level of sugar-coated nastiness that's amazing.
 
2013-03-07 04:22:28 PM

PainInTheASP: poot_rootbeer: ltdanman44: where was the QA guy?

Hyderabad?

Nagesh...is that you?


I would have thought too but he's too busy shiatting on the daily wtf forums... ;)
 
2013-03-07 04:30:45 PM
 
2013-03-07 04:32:21 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: The EU screws another American company................Oh wait and another http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/07/microsofts-patent-lawsuit-against-go o gle-could-shut-down-google-maps-in-germany/




Duh, luckily we have NAFTA. Oh wait.
 
2013-03-07 05:39:52 PM
It was a stupid ruling to start with.  I never use IE but I do use windows, why windows should be forced to promote others browsers is beyond me.  The first thing I do when I get a clean system is use IE to download firefox.
 
2013-03-07 06:34:10 PM

jonny_q: MilesTeg: installing google Chrome hijacks your default browser setting and makes it a relative pain to switch back to a different browser...THAT should be illegal.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that on any operating system. It prompts you for a decision to set default browser just like every other browser on every OS.


No, no it doesn't. Once you install, it becomes default.  And once it is set, the standard ways of setting it back do not work....

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/jO2u5l0Xzwg
 
2013-03-07 06:37:52 PM
Snitch Pride, y0!
 
2013-03-07 06:49:29 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-07 07:36:51 PM

Pocket_Fisherman: It was a stupid ruling to start with.  I never use IE but I do use windows, why windows should be forced to promote others browsers is beyond me.  The first thing I do when I get a clean system is use IE to download firefox.


The ruling wasn't for you.  It was for the majority of people who would just use whatever the OS came with and other companies in the browser market.
 
2013-03-07 07:40:28 PM

nacker: Pocket_Fisherman: It was a stupid ruling to start with.  I never use IE but I do use windows, why windows should be forced to promote others browsers is beyond me.  The first thing I do when I get a clean system is use IE to download firefox.

The ruling wasn't for you.  It was for the majority of people who would just use whatever the OS came with and other companies in the browser market.


And who does that now?
 
2013-03-07 07:48:30 PM
Marine1:

And who does that now?


Who does what?  The majority of users still use whatever browser their PC came with.  Microsoft still has a defacto monopoly on the PC.  If you are implying that Google is doing the same thing with Android I would like to point out that they aren't a defacto monopoly in the phone OS world, so the same rules wouldn't apply.
 
2013-03-07 08:16:53 PM

nacker: The ruling wasn't for you.  It was for the majority of people who would just use whatever the OS came with and other companies in the browser market.


Again, Chromebooks come with Chrome by default and you CAN'T install another browser.

Macs come with Safari and nobody says anything.

iPhone comes with Safari and the high majority of people don't even bother installing another browser, much higher than the amount of people who do the same on the PC.

Sorry, this ruling is dumb, check your MS hate on the door, you're just biased.
 
2013-03-07 08:59:14 PM

nacker: Marine1:

And who does that now?


Who does what?  The majority of users still use whatever browser their PC came with.  Microsoft still has a defacto monopoly on the PC.  If you are implying that Google is doing the same thing with Android I would like to point out that they aren't a defacto monopoly in the phone OS world, so the same rules wouldn't apply.


Who doesn't know of other options for web browsers? Seriously. Ten or maybe even five years ago you could have made that argument, but now? It's all over the place. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on desktop web browsing, either.

And I'd argue that Android very much is a monopoly... 70%+ of the worldwide market share belongs to Google and they're now restricting apps for competing platforms that could cause them grief... but that's another story.
 
2013-03-07 09:19:59 PM
TFA: "Microsoft had then promised to offer consumers a choice of Internet browser instead of making Explorer Windows' automatic default. But the "choice screen" displaying users' options disappeared from 15 million computers sold from February 2011 to July 2012..."


For the life of me...as a Netscape user under Windows 3.x - 2000, a Firefox user under Windows XP, and a Chrome user today, I cannot wrap my mind around what this outrage is all about.

Microsoft -- with whatever version of Windows I have ever purchased (since Win95) -- has included a free tool that enabled me to download whatever browser I wanted. Open up the shiatty browser comes with the system (which, BTW, they are under no obligation to provide), type in http://www.netscape.com, http://www.mozilla.org, http://chrome.google.com, http://www.opera.com, etc. and never have to use Internet Explorer again.

There is no voodoo or deception here. Literally ANYONE can do this. Almost everyone I knew, did. The process takes a maximum of 30 minutes (if you have a dial-up connection), and would actually be much more difficult  without a built-in default browser. Consumers have ALWAYS had a choice of Internet browser. Why have we been bellyaching over this non-issue for nearly two decades??
 
2013-03-07 09:37:40 PM

rocky_howard: nacker: The ruling wasn't for you.  It was for the majority of people who would just use whatever the OS came with and other companies in the browser market.

Again, Chromebooks come with Chrome by default and you CAN'T install another browser.

Macs come with Safari and nobody says anything.

iPhone comes with Safari and the high majority of people don't even bother installing another browser, much higher than the amount of people who do the same on the PC.

Sorry, this ruling is dumb, check your MS hate on the door, you're just biased.


Chromebooks and iPhones are not defacto monopolies in their respective markets.  If they were, then they would likely have similar rules to follow.  Please don't use them as an argument as to why the ruling is dumb.

The last part of your comment is completely untrue.
 
2013-03-07 09:46:28 PM

nacker: Chromebooks and iPhones are not defacto monopolies in their respective markets.  If they were, then they would likely have similar rules to follow.  Please don't use them as an argument as to why the ruling is dumb.


So we're punishing success now?

And Windows is not a defacto monopoly. You can get Linux or a Mac without a problem. In fact, Windows market share has decreased considerably, so the monopoly shiat doesn't apply anymore.
 
2013-03-07 09:47:07 PM
Marine1:
Who doesn't know of other options for web browsers? Seriously. Ten or maybe even five years ago you could have made that argument, but now? It's all over the place. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on desktop web browsing, either.

And I'd argue that Android very much is a monopoly... 70%+ of the worldwide market share belongs to Google and they're now restricting apps for competing platforms that could cause them grief... but that's another story.


You are completely missing the point.  MS has a monopoly on desktop OShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

And the same link above shows mobile OS market share as well.  It has iOS listed at ~55%, so I'm curious as to where you got your 70% from...
 
2013-03-07 09:49:46 PM

rocky_howard: So we're punishing success now?

And Windows is not a defacto monopoly. You can get Linux or a Mac without a problem. In fact, Windows market share has decreased considerably, so the monopoly shiat doesn't apply anymore.


If only there was some way to label a company that has a huge market share, even though other products are equally available.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto_monopoly
 
2013-03-07 10:36:36 PM

nacker: Marine1:
Who doesn't know of other options for web browsers? Seriously. Ten or maybe even five years ago you could have made that argument, but now? It's all over the place. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on desktop web browsing, either.

And I'd argue that Android very much is a monopoly... 70%+ of the worldwide market share belongs to Google and they're now restricting apps for competing platforms that could cause them grief... but that's another story.

You are completely missing the point.  MS has a monopoly on desktop OS:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

And the same link above shows mobile OS market share as well.  It has iOS listed at ~55%, so I'm curious as to where you got your 70% from...


World-wide. The rest of the world isn't as big on Apple products.

And, again, nobody needs that screen anymore. We're all aware of Firefox, Opera, Chrome, etc.. We have been for years.
 
2013-03-07 10:56:19 PM
Marine1: World-wide. The rest of the world isn't as big on Apple products.

Unless you have actual data to show Android has a 90% or higher mobile OS market share, this argument has no pertinent value.


And, again, nobody needs that screen anymore. We're all aware of Firefox, Opera, Chrome, etc.. We have been for years.

If you want to create rules to manage a defacto monopoly, go ahead and get elected to whatever they have in the EU to decide these sorts of things.  However, this argument sounds more like the recent ones along the lines of "we have a black president now so we no longer need laws to prevent racism in the electoral process".  It sounds just as stupid.
 
2013-03-08 02:26:39 AM

nacker: Unless you have actual data to show Android has a 90% or higher mobile OS market share, this argument has no pertinent value.


Windows doesn't have 90% of the market share anymore. THAT's the friggin point. They're not a defacto monopoly anymore, we're in 20farking13, not 1995.

As of February of 2013 it's at 78.94%, so it's CLEARLY not a monopoly since people are getting other products.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

But keep drumming the archaic arguments.

And that's without taking into account mobile platforms, which I don't know why you insist in separating, it's all computers and operative systems. Overall, Microsoft products have a little more than 50%

Where's the punishment towards Google for controlling more than 90% of the search market share? Oh wait, it's not Microsoft, so it's okay.
 
2013-03-08 07:41:40 AM

rocky_howard: Windows doesn't have 90% of the market share anymore. THAT's the friggin point. They're not a defacto monopoly anymore, we're in 20farking13, not 1995.

As of February of 2013 it's at 78.94%, so it's CLEARLY not a monopoly since people are getting other products.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

But keep drumming the archaic arguments.

And that's without taking into account mobile platforms, which I don't know why you insist in separating, it's all computers and operative systems. Overall, Microsoft products have a little more than 50%

Where's the punishment towards Google for controlling more than 90% of the search market share? Oh wait, it's not Microsoft, so it's okay.


The site you linked to show MS with 78% when including mobile platforms.  If the EU wants to treat them as separate, then great for them.  I don't think people feel they are equivalent things right now, but I can certainly concede that is shifting.

And where is your source for google controlling 90% of search?  comScore seems to think otherwise...  http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/1/comScore_Relea s es_December_2012_U.S._Search_Engine_Rankings
 
2013-03-08 08:24:40 AM
Obviously the answer is for MS to disable SP1 immediately in all European Union Countries and distribute a SP6 to EU countries that only contains every browser every written in any version of windows.....to be intalled on the desktop in Icons the size of your face.....stacked on top of each other with a disclaimer in 24 point text that scrolls across the middle of your screen in the same way my monitor keeps telling me it is on PC channel all over the top left corner whenever my screen blinks.

I dont use IE, but anyone forced to use anything but chrome or firefox to browse is quickly going to hate having so many choices.

Also I really think MS needs to protect the privacy of any EU citizen who might accidentally appear in a google streetview by placing large black boxes over any part of a google maps screen that appears to be a face. Like 600x800 pixel black boxes.
 
2013-03-08 08:29:15 AM
One other thing. 

I dont hate Google. I use a lot of their products.

But in an emergency I could use a different search site and different email aggregator for my website emails.

But I am NOT going to learn another operating system. And I am not going to buy a different computer and new programs all over again just to use something that is not a microsoft product. Screw that noise. 

If Google were to make an OS that perfectly mirrored Windows in every concieveable way and ran all the software I own perfectly on my legacy franken puter.....then sure I might switch if there were a price savings.

But I think google would get the crap sued out of them.

They really need to think about this whole destroy MS thing, because between you me and the walls, Android kind of sucks. Google is damn lucky MS sucks worse at mobile phone software.
 
2013-03-08 08:52:30 AM

Magorn: imfallen_angel: "don't be evil" bla bla bla... and all that...

I really can't find reasons to like Google all that much I find. Sure Microsoft did it's share but in today's world, I just find that if Microsoft would have had Google and Apple mentality then... they would have destroyed everything they could have.

which tells me you are younger than 30 and have no idea the damage Microsoft did in the Bill Gates era.  The fuzzy wuzzy philanthropist of today was once the most ruthless and amoral man in Silicon Valley and thought nothing of breaking any law he needed to to destroy a rival for profit or sheer spite.


I'm old enough to call bullshiat on your version of history.  Grow up.
 
2013-03-08 10:13:39 AM

Marine1: Who doesn't know of other options for web browsers? Seriously. Ten or maybe even five years ago you could have made that argument, but now?


Farking Christ.

TEN YEARS AGO IS WHEN THIS ARGUMENT  WAS MADE.

Whether Microsoft still has a monopoly today is irrelevant.  They made a commitment to have their product behave a certain way for a certain amount of time, and then failed to do so.  That and that alone is why they were fined.

And I'd argue that Android very much is a monopoly... 70%+ of the worldwide market share belongs to Google and they're now restricting apps for competing platforms that could cause them grief... but that's another story.

If Google's competitors in the mobile OS market believe that monopolistic practices regarding Android are impeding their ability to compete in the free market, they're free to make their case in the courts.  I don't see it being a successful argument though, because Apple's doing more than fine for themselves despite Android's advantage in market share.
 
2013-03-08 10:57:45 AM
Microsoft got thumped with a $732 million fine issued by the EU antitrust enforcer yesterday for violating the terms of a 2009 deal-thanks to Google and Opera.

Um, it's not exactly snitching if you're the one being assaulted.

/File Transfer Protocol
 
2013-03-08 11:42:50 AM
How exactly is it unethical for Microsoft to not inform users that there are other options available?  It's not Microsoft's fault that many people are too stupid and ignorant to take the hint that there are other options available without being told directly.

/dislikes MSIE, strongly prefers Chrome, former Firefox user, used Opera before that and Netscape before that
 
2013-03-08 04:50:23 PM

poot_rootbeer: Marine1: Who doesn't know of other options for web browsers? Seriously. Ten or maybe even five years ago you could have made that argument, but now?

Farking Christ.

TEN YEARS AGO IS WHEN THIS ARGUMENT  WAS MADE.

Whether Microsoft still has a monopoly today is irrelevant.  They made a commitment to have their product behave a certain way for a certain amount of time, and then failed to do so.  That and that alone is why they were fined.

And I'd argue that Android very much is a monopoly... 70%+ of the worldwide market share belongs to Google and they're now restricting apps for competing platforms that could cause them grief... but that's another story.

If Google's competitors in the mobile OS market believe that monopolistic practices regarding Android are impeding their ability to compete in the free market, they're free to make their case in the courts.  I don't see it being a successful argument though, because Apple's doing more than fine for themselves despite Android's advantage in market share.


It was "put this feature in, or don't sell it in a continent of 400 million people". No adjustment for the realities of the marketplace. Sounds like a pretty shiatty way to regulate businesses.
 
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