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(Fox News)   Problem: People shooting each other. Solution: Anger management classes to buy ammunition   (foxnews.com) divider line 87
    More: Florida, Florida Times-Union, ammunition  
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1759 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2013 at 11:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-07 01:44:44 PM  

kombat_unit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: MythDragon: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Bullets are too cheap right now, anyway.

Where the most holy of farks are you shopping? Because that's where I want to go.
Walmarts 100rd white box of ammo used to be like 11 bucks. That's now doubled in price. 5.56 used to be 15 cents a round. Now it's upwards of a dollar each.

So either you havn't bought ammo in 10 years, you know a secret awesome shop, or you are just pulling thoughts out of your ass.

What they used to be is irrelevant.  Right now, they're too cheap.

Wrong, dead wrong.


He's one of those "Every bullet should cost $5,000" people. Because no one needs more than 1 to protect their family, and shooting for fun/sport/practice is only for nutbags.
 
2013-03-07 01:58:51 PM  

umad: Ammo has been sold out everywhere for months with no sign of slowing. The laws of supply and demand state that when demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage will occur, which puts pressure toward a higher equilibrium price.

Ergo, he is technically correct.

/best kind


Yeah, for the millitary stuff (.223/5.56, 7.62x39, 308 and '06) you are correct.  However, most other ammunition in more of the hunting calibers are still readily avaliable.

Reloading components are hard to come by though.  Luckily. I was pretty much stocked up prior to this mess after the last go around.  For 99% of my shooting, I'll be good for another few years.
 
2013-03-07 02:32:29 PM  

MythDragon: kombat_unit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: MythDragon: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Bullets are too cheap right now, anyway.

Where the most holy of farks are you shopping? Because that's where I want to go.
Walmarts 100rd white box of ammo used to be like 11 bucks. That's now doubled in price. 5.56 used to be 15 cents a round. Now it's upwards of a dollar each.

So either you havn't bought ammo in 10 years, you know a secret awesome shop, or you are just pulling thoughts out of your ass.

What they used to be is irrelevant.  Right now, they're too cheap.

Wrong, dead wrong.

He's one of those "Every bullet should cost $5,000" people. Because no one needs more than 1 to protect their family, and shooting for fun/sport/practice is only for nutbags.


No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.
 
2013-03-07 02:49:58 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.



Are you high?
 
2013-03-07 02:54:41 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.


So when they cost about 10 to 40 cents to make you wonder why they don't cost $10?

Really?
 
2013-03-07 03:04:15 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.



dl.dropbox.com

That probably wont work the way you think it will...

/Of course, the problem isn't the quantity of ammo people buy.
/Target shooters expend thousands of rounds per year, criminals only need a dozen.
/Case in point: Ammo's been running dry for months, everyone's sold out, but crime didn't stop.
 
2013-03-07 03:07:41 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: MythDragon: kombat_unit: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: MythDragon: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Bullets are too cheap right now, anyway.

Where the most holy of farks are you shopping? Because that's where I want to go.
Walmarts 100rd white box of ammo used to be like 11 bucks. That's now doubled in price. 5.56 used to be 15 cents a round. Now it's upwards of a dollar each.

So either you havn't bought ammo in 10 years, you know a secret awesome shop, or you are just pulling thoughts out of your ass.

What they used to be is irrelevant.  Right now, they're too cheap.

Wrong, dead wrong.

He's one of those "Every bullet should cost $5,000" people. Because no one needs more than 1 to protect their family, and shooting for fun/sport/practice is only for nutbags.

No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.


I think only rich people should be allowed to buy bullets.
 
2013-03-07 03:12:18 PM  
This proposal has the same motive as transvaginal ultrasound legislation.
 
2013-03-07 03:13:49 PM  
Another day, another proposed law that will only affect law abiding citizens. And have zero effect on the problem that the proponents of said laws are supposedly trying to stop.

Gun grabbers are beyond ridiculous now.
 
2013-03-07 03:14:19 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.


Because the weapons I own take about 15 different calibers of shells. You need to fire more than once to become proficient with a weapon, and at 10 dollars each, there is no way I could possibly maintain a small stock of ammo that will allow me to shoot at any given time, let alone afford to carry enough rounds for self defense. Or maybe that's just your intent. Don't ban guns, just create an effective ammo ban, which indirectly bans guns.

Or maybe you'd prefer a bunch of people to have a gun with 5 bullets that they have never had any practice what so ever with.
 
2013-03-07 03:16:14 PM  

MythDragon: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: No, I'm more one of those "why don't bullets cost $10 each" types.

Because the weapons I own take about 15 different calibers of shells. You need to fire more than once to become proficient with a weapon, and at 10 dollars each, there is no way I could possibly maintain a small stock of ammo that will allow me to shoot at any given time, let alone afford to carry enough rounds for self defense. Or maybe that's just your intent. Don't ban guns, just create an effective ammo ban, which indirectly bans guns.

Or maybe you'd prefer a bunch of people to have a gun with 5 bullets that they have never had any practice what so ever with.


I thought they would target primers, to stop reloading.
 
2013-03-07 03:23:01 PM  
Nothing can piss you off more than anger management classes.
 
2013-03-07 03:35:32 PM  

Mikey1969: part of what makes this country great is the ability for Joe Six-Pack to get elected to pretty much any office


This is a good one, if you haven't seen it:

Can Mr. Smith Get to Washington Anymore?

Refrain from looking up any information about the guy until you've seen it, though.  Major spoilers...
 
2013-03-07 03:52:23 PM  
Ow! That was my feelings!:
So, every single person who buys ammo gets their own personal chemically tagged gunpowder?  There are 10s of millions of gun owners.  Hmm, sounds workable and cheap!

Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.
 
2013-03-07 03:54:50 PM  

dittybopper: Ammunition and gunpowder itself is produced in *HUGE* lots.  It's not like each box of ammo is going to have a distinct taggant in it, tied to a single purchaser.  A single manufacturer might produce well over a million rounds of one particular caliber in a year, and with 20 per box, that's 50,000 boxes of ammo all with the same exact powder (and same taggant signature) sent all over the country to widely distributed outlets.


The chemical signature can be added to the mix when the powder is added to the round, you don't have to stockpile different kinds of powder.
 
2013-03-07 04:05:17 PM  
What happens if you get stark, raving mad, 9 years after you take the course?
 
2013-03-07 04:05:54 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.


What about those of us that don't get our ammo out of a box?
 
2013-03-07 04:10:01 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Ow! That was my feelings!:
So, every single person who buys ammo gets their own personal chemically tagged gunpowder?  There are 10s of millions of gun owners.  Hmm, sounds workable and cheap!

Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.


Oh boy. Please explain how you would do this on mass produced ammo.

Please explain how you would use this chemical marker to identify the bullets after they are fired?

/dificulty - you have to use technology that actually exists in the real world and not just on csi or ncis.
 
2013-03-07 04:10:29 PM  

Big Man On Campus: The chemical signature can be added to the mix when the powder is added to the round, you don't have to stockpile different kinds of powder.


Do you think that reloaders will add this 'signature' to every cartidge they make?
 
2013-03-07 04:10:47 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: I thought they would target primers, to stop reloading.


Primers are easy to reload.  You just need some strike-anywhere matches.
 
2013-03-07 04:17:59 PM  

Pick: What happens if you get stark, raving mad, 9 years after you take the course?


This is what I was thinking. I'll just go ahead and take the class now so that there are no barriers in case I choose to kill someone in several years.
 
2013-03-07 04:23:00 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Ow! That was my feelings!:
So, every single person who buys ammo gets their own personal chemically tagged gunpowder?  There are 10s of millions of gun owners.  Hmm, sounds workable and cheap!

Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.


So, do you need to turn the empty brass and bullet fragments when you need more? I'm rich as fark so I could care less how much it costs. I just want to keep the bullets out of the hands of poor people.
 
2013-03-07 04:25:37 PM  

Pick: What happens if you get stark, raving mad, 9 years after you take the course?

shiat, what if that happens on day 12?
 
2013-03-07 04:41:47 PM  
All the ammo tax people will be horrified to hear that anyone can manufacture ammunition at home in nearly unlimited quantities with no licensing required.
 
2013-03-07 05:29:24 PM  

Virtue: All the ammo tax people will be horrified to hear that anyone can manufacture ammunition at home in nearly unlimited quantities with no licensing required.


Primers could be a problem.
 
2013-03-07 06:06:07 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I am pissed that this biatch have the nerve to even suggest this to a problem created by a bunch crazy people.
/It needs to be a way for people to get that crazy arse uncle some mental help without making him feel well all crazy and shiat.
//If you know and been told by doctors your crazy arse kid is crazy and you don't get them any help at all before they kill someone, you should be liable.
\Okay that last one sounds like a wet dream for insurance companies


The help they give them is psychoactive drugs.  So now they go to school crazy and stoned on Luvox.  We send over a quarter of our kids to school stoned on dangerous drugs.  School counselors force parents to put their kids on drugs by threatening them with CPS.  It keeps the money flowing.
 
2013-03-07 06:24:51 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.


Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.
 
2013-03-07 06:41:24 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Rfids are way easier. Companies already use billions of tags just for inventory control, they're cheap as hell. Making them survive impacts would make them cost more, but you can pass that cost on. Bullets are too cheap right now, anyway. And yes, it would mean no more making your own ammo.


Great.  Now you just need to get the criminals to obey that law.  Oh wait, back to THAT problem again.

How about we just keep bad guys who use guns in jail, longer?  That way we punish the people who are a problem, which will reduce the problem.
 
2013-03-07 06:57:25 PM  

HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.


HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.


Redering Semi-automatics practically useless.
 
2013-03-07 07:02:37 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.

HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.

Redering Semi-automatics practically useless.


Screw you "Use Formatting Buttons"!!!!!
 
2013-03-07 07:26:36 PM  

HeadLever: Big Man On Campus: Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.

What about those of us that don't get our ammo out of a box?


HeadLever: Big Man On Campus: The chemical signature can be added to the mix when the powder is added to the round, you don't have to stockpile different kinds of powder.

Do you think that reloaders will add this 'signature' to every cartidge they make?


There are loopholes in all laws. If you're looking for a law that has none, look to the dictatorships. There's no law, even in places like Best Korea, that prevents any of their millions of slave-citizens from building untraceable bombs. If this sort of law makes people begin reloading spent cartridges, that's little different from the AWB failing to prevent people from manufacturing their own assault weapons. The gun-grabbers are really just looking for accountability so that whackos have a tough time committing crimes, this is understandable. But they generally balk when a proposed solution is not 100% perfect, and then act like people are not supposed to feel like their desire is to take guns away from law abiding citizens. What the gun-grabbers need to understand is that there is no perfect solution, and gun violence is not going away fully no matter what they propose, and all proposals mean a loss of freedom. The democratic Attorney Generals have all said that the Assault Weapons ban did nothing to stop gun violence, yet all the gun-haters want it back without considering anything different.

Benjamin Orr:
Oh boy. Please explain how you would do this on mass produced ammo.

Please explain how you would use this chemical marker to identify the bullets after they are fired?


Metal oxide particles in the 25-100um size range (sandpaper size) that are stable at gunpowder explosion temperatures are added to the mix of gunpowder if possible. If you desire to use oxides that are not stable at those temperatures, you can simply "paint" the side of the projectile that is in contact with the shell to get the desired effect as those particles are less likely to be exposed to the full 450C of the gunpowder explosion, but will get caught in the blast. The periodic table is mostly metals, and many of those metals generally form at least one very stable oxide. You add small amounts of this in specific relative ratios unique to each box of bullets and you have a signature that can be traced. Bullets go through an automated robot process for manufacturing anyway, two more steps added to that is peanuts. This should not affect the firing of the round at all.

As for identifying the bullet after it's fired, the projectiles are always lead, which is very soft. The explosion of the gunpowder will leave these oxides trapped in the lead, providing a trace on the round. So matching signatures on the projectile should be simple. Matching the signature on the spent casing is trivial. Matching it on the gun is admittedly harder if the gun user hasn't been cleaned it in a while, but it's not impossible considering all the places it can get to. Firing a weapon also tends to leave traces on the person who fired it, making a match on the skin of the gun user plausible.

Is this all plausible enough for you or do I have to write up a grant proposal?
 
2013-03-07 07:34:34 PM  

Big Man On Campus: add small amounts of this in specific relative ratios unique to each box of bullets


Do you have any idea how many boxes are out there?
 
2013-03-07 07:35:59 PM  

Big Man On Campus: As for identifying the bullet after it's fired,

Who's going to keep this database of ratios per box?
 
2013-03-08 03:20:24 AM  

Big Man On Campus: HeadLever: Big Man On Campus: Not exactly, more like you create a chemical signature in each box of ammo (not as hard as it sounds actually), catalog them, and track them when necessary.

What about those of us that don't get our ammo out of a box?

HeadLever: Big Man On Campus: The chemical signature can be added to the mix when the powder is added to the round, you don't have to stockpile different kinds of powder.

Do you think that reloaders will add this 'signature' to every cartidge they make?

There are loopholes in all laws. If you're looking for a law that has none, look to the dictatorships. There's no law, even in places like Best Korea, that prevents any of their millions of slave-citizens from building untraceable bombs. If this sort of law makes people begin reloading spent cartridges, that's little different from the AWB failing to prevent people from manufacturing their own assault weapons. The gun-grabbers are really just looking for accountability so that whackos have a tough time committing crimes, this is understandable. But they generally balk when a proposed solution is not 100% perfect, and then act like people are not supposed to feel like their desire is to take guns away from law abiding citizens. What the gun-grabbers need to understand is that there is no perfect solution, and gun violence is not going away fully no matter what they propose, and all proposals mean a loss of freedom. The democratic Attorney Generals have all said that the Assault Weapons ban did nothing to stop gun violence, yet all the gun-haters want it back without considering anything different.

Benjamin Orr:
Oh boy. Please explain how you would do this on mass produced ammo.

Please explain how you would use this chemical marker to identify the bullets after they are fired?

Metal oxide particles in the 25-100um size range (sandpaper size) that are stable at gunpowder explosion temperatures are added to the mix of gunpowder if possible. If you desire to use oxides that are not stable at those temperatures, you can simply "paint" the side of the projectile that is in contact with the shell to get the desired effect as those particles are less likely to be exposed to the full 450C of the gunpowder explosion, but will get caught in the blast. The periodic table is mostly metals, and many of those metals generally form at least one very stable oxide. You add small amounts of this in specific relative ratios unique to each box of bullets and you have a signature that can be traced. Bullets go through an automated robot process for manufacturing anyway, two more steps added to that is peanuts. This should not affect the firing of the round at all.

As for identifying the bullet after it's fired, the projectiles are always lead, which is very soft. The explosion of the gunpowder will leave these oxides trapped in the lead, providing a trace on the round. So matching signatures on the projectile should be simple. Matching the signature on the spent casing is trivial. Matching it on the gun is admittedly harder if the gun user hasn't been cleaned it in a while, but it's not impossible considering all the places it can get to. Firing a weapon also tends to leave traces on the person who fired it, making a match on the skin of the gun user plausible.

Is this all plausible enough for you or do I have to write up a grant proposal?


Ohwaityouareseriousletmelaughharder.jpg
 
2013-03-08 07:56:18 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.

HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Primers could be a problem.

Making the primers is not really all that hard, but the powder that is typiclly used is VERY dangerous.  The heads of strike anywhere matches can be used to construct primers, but they are not very reliable compared to the standard powders used.

Redering Semi-automatics practically useless.


Meh.

It's currently pretty unreliable because people haven't got a lot of experience with it.   Even if they remain unreliable, many guns like pump and lever actions, and revolvers, are nearly as fast as a semi-auto and unaffected by misfires.  You just work the action again like you normally would anyway to shoot again.

Plus, you can reload them with caps like the kind toy guns use, or you can pry the material out of percussion caps used by muzzleloaders.  I assume those would remain uncontrolled.

If all else fails, you can make the priming compound yourself from commonly available chemicals.  If you do it in small batches, it's relatively safe, and you can reload a bunch of primers with very little material.
 
2013-03-08 10:14:02 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Redering Semi-automatics practically useless.


This method of making these primers takes about 5 to 10 minutes for one primer.  If you have to spend that much time making primers, you aren't going to be firing them through a semi-auto at a high rate of speed anyway.

There is a reason no one makes primers by themselves.  The cost of current primers is no about 2 to 5 cents each and they are non-corrosive.  the matchstick primers are very corrosive.  There is no way that the time, effort and extra cleaning outweighs the cost of modern primers (so long as you can find them on the shelf)
 
2013-03-08 11:48:15 AM  

HeadLever: StoPPeRmobile: Redering Semi-automatics practically useless.

This method of making these primers takes about 5 to 10 minutes for one primer.  If you have to spend that much time making primers, you aren't going to be firing them through a semi-auto at a high rate of speed anyway.

There is a reason no one makes primers by themselves.  The cost of current primers is no about 2 to 5 cents each and they are non-corrosive.  the matchstick primers are very corrosive.  There is no way that the time, effort and extra cleaning outweighs the cost of modern primers (so long as you can find them on the shelf)


Once you can't find them, though, it becomes an attractive alternative.
 
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