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(BBC)   In a world were both Democrats and Republicans can get away with illegal wiretapping, the country that birthed the mafia just sentenced Berlusconi to a year in prison for doing the same   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Berlusconi, Republican, Democrats, accounting fraud, wiretaps, Italy, disenchantment, statute of limitations  
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1164 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Mar 2013 at 12:44 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-07 09:53:10 AM  
Does he still get to stay out of jail if elected to parliament?
 
2013-03-07 09:58:54 AM  
Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.
 
2013-03-07 11:24:08 AM  

ZAZ: Does he still get to stay out of jail if elected to parliament?


The Italian judicial system is so ridiculously insane even Fellini would never have found a way to make a satire of it because it would still look like a documentary, so there's no way in hell I know the answer to that question.
 
2013-03-07 11:38:30 AM  
Everyone gets convicted of everything (the first go around) in that third-world justice system.
 
2013-03-07 12:51:20 PM  

2wolves: Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.


I'm as libby libby lib as they come, and I recognize that Cheney started this, using his hillbilly sock puppet, but that doesn't change the fact that the KEEP AMERICA SAFE police state has expanded under Obama.  I'm not a troll and I'm sure as hell not a WND derper.
 
2013-03-07 12:51:29 PM  
Annnnnd there's no way he'll ever go to jail.
 
2013-03-07 12:53:08 PM  
we impeached a President and imprisoned a few people for basically the same thing

/you dolt
 
2013-03-07 12:53:48 PM  
The judge that sentenced him isn't gonna live much longer, then, I guess?
 
2013-03-07 01:00:53 PM  
BUNGA BUNGA PARTY!

Albeit not the type Berli likes, mind you.
 
2013-03-07 01:02:55 PM  
He's lucky he's not an american student accused of witchcraft and satanic rituals, then.
 
2013-03-07 01:04:29 PM  
world were what?

WERE WHAT?!?!?!
 
2013-03-07 01:07:15 PM  

skullkrusher: we impeached a President and imprisoned a few people for basically the same thing

/you dolt


He resigned before he was actually impeached, and we no longer imprison anyone for that sort of thing (unless it's someone filming a police officer in public, especially when the police officer being filmed is committing police brutality, planting drugs or otherwise going out of their way to punish someone for Contempt Of Cop; then, you can bet your bottom dollar that the person doing the wiretapping will be going to jail for a long time)
 
2013-03-07 01:09:07 PM  

King Something: skullkrusher: we impeached a President and imprisoned a few people for basically the same thing

/you dolt

He resigned before he was actually impeached, and we no longer imprison anyone for that sort of thing (unless it's someone filming a police officer in public, especially when the police officer being filmed is committing police brutality, planting drugs or otherwise going out of their way to punish someone for Contempt Of Cop; then, you can bet your bottom dollar that the person doing the wiretapping will be going to jail for a long time)


thatsthejoke.jpg

and yeah, we still do imprison regular people for illegally tapping other regular people's phones so I have no idea wtf you're talking about
 
2013-03-07 01:09:55 PM  

Nabb1: ZAZ: Does he still get to stay out of jail if elected to parliament?

The Italian judicial system is so ridiculously insane even Fellini would never have found a way to make a satire of it because it would still look like a documentary, so there's no way in hell I know the answer to that question.


So it's like Japanese game shows then?
 
2013-03-07 01:28:31 PM  
That's right, Subby. America is a giant police state that's exactly like North Korea. This morning it took me only 3 hours to get through all the police checkpoints to get to work. It was a good morning.
 
2013-03-07 01:36:25 PM  
Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.
 
2013-03-07 01:38:42 PM  

WTF Indeed: That's right, Subby. America is a giant police state that's exactly like North Korea. This morning it took me only 3 hours to get through all the police checkpoints to get to work. It was a good morning.


Illegal wiretapping = exactly like North Korea?
 
2013-03-07 01:38:58 PM  

Kibbler: 2wolves: Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.

I'm as libby libby lib as they come, and I recognize that Cheney started this, using his hillbilly sock puppet, but that doesn't change the fact that the KEEP AMERICA SAFE police state has expanded under Obama.  I'm not a troll and I'm sure as hell not a WND derper.


I suspect you don't understand what "illegal" means. Maybe "unconstitutional", but the law gives the government a lot of leeway for wiretapping.
 
2013-03-07 01:46:24 PM  

Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.


Nope, subby is a moron. The illegal part was that he published it, according to TFA.
 
2013-03-07 01:47:17 PM  

Mikey1969: Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.

Nope, subby is a moron. The illegal part was that he published it, according to TFA.


I figured.
 
2013-03-07 01:49:08 PM  
A year? Pfft. He'll be able to do that without even taking his fingers out of the eighteen-year-old he's cavorting with.
 
2013-03-07 02:01:59 PM  
why yah gotta pick'n ona Silvio Berlusconi?
 
2013-03-07 02:07:26 PM  
I would just like to point out this one thing about Nixon. See, it's just that...
 
2013-03-07 02:17:14 PM  
Yawn. Wake me when you have pictures of him in an orange jumpsuit.

With his deep pockets Berlusconi has had no trouble gumming up the already slow crawl of Italian justice to such an extent as to make him effectively immune from prosecution. Barring revolution (not impossible, but not the most likely outcome) that's not going to change. At his age, especially, the chance that he'll ever answer for his sins in this world is slim at best.
 
2013-03-07 02:19:51 PM  

2wolves: Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.


Someone who doesn't comprehend proper usage of a metaphor, for starers.
 
2013-03-07 02:36:42 PM  
What about a world are both Democrats and Republicans can get away with illegal wiretapping? What about one will be both Democrats and Republicans can get away with illegal wiretapping? What about those, subby? What about those?
 
2013-03-07 02:43:07 PM  

Gyrfalcon: 2wolves: Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.

Someone who doesn't comprehend proper usage of a metaphor, for starers.


I hate people who stare.

/Kidding!
 
2013-03-07 02:55:45 PM  

funk_soul_bubby: I hate people who stare.


then you shouldn't wear clothes that show off your tits like in your profile
 
2013-03-07 02:58:04 PM  

funk_soul_bubby: Gyrfalcon: 2wolves: Neophye troll or WND Derp & Hurr brigade? Tell us what you are Subby.

Someone who doesn't comprehend proper usage of a metaphor, for starers.

I hate people who stare.

/Kidding!


How that profile counter doing?

;-)
 
2013-03-07 03:36:28 PM  
Governments are get away with doing things that citizens can't?! You don't sayyy....
 
2013-03-07 04:00:13 PM  

Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.


Well, the ones in the US were illegal before they made them legal ex post facto.
 
2013-03-07 05:21:08 PM  
Hey, it's not like he's Mussolini.

Mussolini actually accomplished things.

Horrible things, wrong things, but nevertheless...
 
2013-03-07 05:25:27 PM  

jigger: Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.

Well, the ones in the US were illegal before they made them legal ex post facto.


Which one's are you referring to that were declared actually illegal? Do you have a link?
 
2013-03-07 05:33:16 PM  
Well, he's still on trial for two other things, which should wrap up soon (the underage prostitute thing is in closing arguments). And then there are the new bribery allegations...
 
2013-03-07 05:48:26 PM  

Corvus: jigger: Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.

Well, the ones in the US were illegal before they made them legal ex post facto.

Which one's are you referring to that were declared actually illegal? Do you have a link?


Ah, "declared" illegal. By whom, Alberto Gonzales? The courts, who were not permitted to introduce evidence that the NSA broke the FISA law and the Wiretap Act because the government claimed it was a "state secret"?

The NSA was sweeping up vast swaths of domestic communications with no warrant, not even a FISA warrant. Under the FISA rules at the time and under the Wiretap Act, this was illegal. Everyone knew what they were doing and knew it was illegal and that's why they even bothered to pass the FISA Amendment Act to give retroactive immunity to anyone involved. Why bother with retroactive immunity if what they were doing was legal?
 
2013-03-07 05:48:53 PM  

jigger: Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.

Well, the ones in the US were illegal before they made them legal ex post facto.


OK found it:

On March 31, 2010, Judge Vaughn R. Walker, chief judge of the Federal District Court in San Francisco, ruled that the National Security Agency's program of surveillance without warrants was illegal when it intercepted phone calls of Al Haramain. Declaring that the plaintiffs had been "subjected to unlawful surveillance", the judge said the government was liable to pay them damages.[47]

But until 2010 it had not been found illegal. Also to say "Democrats" in the headline is misleading since it was done under the Bush admin.
 
2013-03-07 05:51:26 PM  

jigger: Corvus: jigger: Corvus: Subby what illegal wire taping are you talking about? I know of wire taping that happened I disagree with but I don't remember any found to be illegal.

Well, the ones in the US were illegal before they made them legal ex post facto.

Which one's are you referring to that were declared actually illegal? Do you have a link?

Ah, "declared" illegal. By whom, Alberto Gonzales? The courts, who were not permitted to introduce evidence that the NSA broke the FISA law and the Wiretap Act because the government claimed it was a "state secret"?

The NSA was sweeping up vast swaths of domestic communications with no warrant, not even a FISA warrant. Under the FISA rules at the time and under the Wiretap Act, this was illegal. Everyone knew what they were doing and knew it was illegal and that's why they even bothered to pass the FISA Amendment Act to give retroactive immunity to anyone involved. Why bother with retroactive immunity if what they were doing was legal?


Holy crap I had to find it for you? Maybe you should learn about the subjects you are concerned about more.

Actually your "Everyone knew it was illegal" is not true because it wasn't even ruled illegal until 2010 and the Bush admin I would think didn't think it was illegal.

Still not sure how wire taps carried out by the Bush bush administration where "Democrat wire taps",
 
2013-03-07 06:13:08 PM  

Corvus: Also to say "Democrats" in the headline is misleading since it was done under the Bush admin.


IIRC, these things were going on before Bush, but whatever. The NSA has pretty much been wiretapping as much as they can for as long as they've been able to do it.

Corvus: Holy crap I had to find it for you? Maybe you should learn about the subjects you are concerned about more.


Hey, I was just going off the top of my head. I knew it was illegal. I didn't have to go searching for the one time a judge said, "yeah, it's illegal." Everyone knew it was illegal. That's why they amended FISA, to make it not illegal anymore.

Corvus: Actually your "Everyone knew it was illegal" is not true because it wasn't even ruled illegal until 2010 and the Bush admin I would think didn't think it was illegal.


Most people involved had a pretty good idea that they could be held liable for participating. That's why that guy from Qwest got into so much trouble. He saw that it was illegal and didn't want to participate, so they started hitting him with bullshiat charges in retaliation.

When you see some plainly written law and compare it to what you could do, do you say "well no one has been  prosecuted for this particular law yet, so these actions that are clearly spelled out as illegal haven't actually been 'declared illegal' by a court, so I'll just go ahead and do it for now"? No, you say "I'd better not do that because it's illegal."
 
2013-03-07 06:28:45 PM  

Kibbler: hillbilly sock puppet


Did you just call George W Bush a hillbilly sock puppet? do you have any idea where he was born?

It wasn't in the hills, that's for sure.
 
2013-03-07 06:59:44 PM  

jigger: Corvus: Also to say "Democrats" in the headline is misleading since it was done under the Bush admin.

IIRC, these things were going on before Bush, but whatever. The NSA has pretty much been wiretapping as much as they can for as long as they've been able to do it.

Corvus: Holy crap I had to find it for you? Maybe you should learn about the subjects you are concerned about more.

Hey, I was just going off the top of my head. I knew it was illegal. I didn't have to go searching for the one time a judge said, "yeah, it's illegal." Everyone knew it was illegal. That's why they amended FISA, to make it not illegal anymore.

Corvus: Actually your "Everyone knew it was illegal" is not true because it wasn't even ruled illegal until 2010 and the Bush admin I would think didn't think it was illegal.

Most people involved had a pretty good idea that they could be held liable for participating. That's why that guy from Qwest got into so much trouble. He saw that it was illegal and didn't want to participate, so they started hitting him with bullshiat charges in retaliation.

When you see some plainly written law and compare it to what you could do, do you say "well no one has been  prosecuted for this particular law yet, so these actions that are clearly spelled out as illegal haven't actually been 'declared illegal' by a court, so I'll just go ahead and do it for now"? No, you say "I'd better not do that because it's illegal."


Except that the Obama administration holds the same position that the Bush administration held on such wiretaps: that the Authorization For Use of Military Force (AFUMF) resolution passed by Congress on Sep 14, 2001 supersedes FISA in matters pertaining to the "War on Terror", and the Supremes have yet to rule on *that* particular issue.
 
2013-03-08 10:47:13 PM  

GameSprocket: I suspect you don't understand what "illegal" means. Maybe "unconstitutional", but the law gives the government a lot of leeway for wiretapping.


Following a telegraph scandal by Western Union, Congress passed a bunch of laws that made it illegal for telecommunication companies to hand over personal information. They set the bar so high for conviction that the telecommunications companies could only be convicted if they failed to meet a minimum standard of "acting in good faith." The wiretapping that occurred under the Bush Administration was so egregious that every court that looked at the matter said that the telecommunication companies failed to meet even the most basic standard for acting in good faith.

That's why Congress, including Obama, had to vote for retroactive immunity for the telecommunication companies - they were in serious risk of huge financial damage caused by their blatantly illegal behavior.

While we might have retroactively made it legal, there most certainly were years of illegal wiretapping
 
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