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(Mother Nature Network)   It's illegal to not hire somebody because she is an African Muslim lesbian in a wheelchair. But nobody cares if the only reason you don't get a job is because you're a smoker   (mnn.com) divider line 292
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7773 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2013 at 6:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-07 01:14:50 PM  
I don't do anything addictive at work ...  caffeine, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food or drugs. Some people hate the smell of anything, and in my line of work I need to be up-close with people and friendly. Trust me, I hate the smell of fast food. It literally makes me nauseous. So does coffee-breath, it's disgusting. Both of which are horrible for your health and are addictive.

That said, I don't believe any business has a right to censor what an employee can legally do. I don't care if it is THEIR business people are working at; people are not slaves to their work 24/7/365.
 
2013-03-07 01:17:16 PM  
StoPPeRmobile:

If you are breathing trackter-trailer exhaust fumes all day, the last thing we need is for your spouse to be enjoying the priviledge of freedom.

I wonder if those people get home and need a hit off an big rig exhaust pipe just to make it through the night.
 
2013-03-07 01:18:49 PM  

j4x: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

Cool.

When can we start not hiring fat people??


Why stop at fat people? When can we stop hiring people who wear too much cologne/perfume or just the kinds we don't like. When can we stop hiring people who gamble?
 
2013-03-07 01:22:52 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Nicotine addiction, like alcoholism, is a disease. If the employer is willing to ignore the rights of the sick, I'm happy to just as well take my business somewhere else.

I'm no smoker. I can't stand the smell of tobacco. But it's a pretty low person who will make it a policy to discriminate against someone because of a disease.



Interesting twist. Nicotine addiction, like alcoholism is treatable. Whether you choose 12-step programs, religion, or pure willpower is not important. Calling an addiction a disease is not justification for doing nothing about it.

If a bus driver with diabetes refuses to take insulin he doesn't get a free pass because his employers are discriminating against someone with a disease by firing him.

Preemptively, that is NOT apples to oranges. You already referred to nicotine addiction as a disease.
 
2013-03-07 01:23:56 PM  

jso2897: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

This is true - and since you will not be insuring this person for their entire lifetime, you will not get the "early death" payoff. The fact that a smoker costs less to insure over the course of their entire life doesn't help you one bit, because they will be sicker during the time you have to cover their insurance.


There is one thing every anti-smoking zealot like yourself forgets. Smokers pay shiatloads of taxes on cigarettes.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403

17.2 billion in taxes last year. (No I didn't read it wrong, it's 17,267,568 in [thousands of dollars], or 17,267,568,000). So I guess when you come up with a plan to replace 17 billion in tax revenue, I'll think your argument might have merit.
 
2013-03-07 01:26:59 PM  

liam76: StoPPeRmobile: IRS and ACA don't care if you buy TV dinners and McDonalds instead of brocolli and carrot like you're supposed to do.

Corporations need to do this for wellness of the employee

Corporation don't "need" to do this.

They don't do it because they "care" what you eat.  They do it to save money on inusrance and have more productive employees.


"Wellness" is code for lower insurance rates. Please do keep up.
 
2013-03-07 01:28:25 PM  

busy chillin': StoPPeRmobile:

If you are breathing trackter-trailer exhaust fumes all day, the last thing we need is for your spouse to be enjoying the priviledge of freedom.

I wonder if those people get home and need a hit off an big rig exhaust pipe just to make it through the night.


That, they are allowed to do.
 
2013-03-07 02:09:06 PM  
What happens if you apply for a job there and are in the process of giving up smoking by using nicotine patches? Then they will not hire you, even though you are not smoking.

As well, FTFA:   "In my opinion, anytime a company attempts to regulate an employee's private life, that in no way has an impact on their employment" ***

*** This does not include smokers who work on the 20th floor who have to wait 5-10 minutes for a lift going down to where they can have their smoke break then wait ANOTHER 5-10 minutes to come back up again while the overworked non-smoker does their work without being allowed the equivalent length of break from their tasks
 
2013-03-07 02:11:49 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.


Smoking is physically active for you?
 
2013-03-07 02:22:04 PM  

empres77: Studies have shown that smokers take 40% more breaks than non-smokers.


You are assuming that time at one's desk is productive time, which is a load of steaming, foul-smelling shiat.
 
2013-03-07 02:22:36 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.

Smoking is physically active for you?


Not all of us take our breaks at the desk.
 
2013-03-07 02:23:35 PM  
This is not new.  Many hospitals have this rule now.  How the fark can anyone defend the right of a company to ban smoking because of the smell?  How about people who sweat profusely and refuse to wear deodorant, or it just does not work on them?  How about the smelly bastards that feel the need to put on enough perfume/cologne to choke the life out of someone with asthma or perople who are allergic to the stuff?  Imagine people prior to the invention of the light bulb complaining about the smell of smoke, probably rare.  It's all for insurance purposes.

/slippery slope
//watch out for future fat discrimination
///will have to hand over medical history as part of the interview process
 
2013-03-07 02:27:26 PM  

RockofAges: ^^^^

In other words, we should "choose" to stop an activity before we are "shamed" and then "forced" to do so arbitrarily.

Because that's choice, and freedom, after all.


Do you ever get tired of all your endless ranting? You sound like a second year sociology major at a liberal arts college.

I wish that you would "choose" to stop posting your multi-part manifesto all over this thread I'm trying to read.
 
2013-03-07 02:46:59 PM  
I'm curious if this type of hiring discrimination would work in reverse... Could you require all employees to be smokers and fire anyone who quits smoking?? If so, would it then be legal to allow smoking inside the workplace, since everyone is already a smoker, so you're not exposing any non-smokers to it? (I think I recall some bar trying that tactic to avoid laws against smoking in bars, and that didn't fly... But, there they also have random members of the public coming in, and I suppose you can't test every one of them at the door to make sure they're smokers before letting them in...)
 
2013-03-07 03:08:02 PM  

Pangea: RockofAges: ^^^^

In other words, we should "choose" to stop an activity before we are "shamed" and then "forced" to do so arbitrarily.

Because that's choice, and freedom, after all.

Do you ever get tired of all your endless ranting? You sound like a second year sociology major at a liberal arts college.

I wish that you would "choose" to stop posting your multi-part manifesto all over this thread I'm trying to read.


He's responding to people replying to or commenting on his posts. As you just did. Where's the problem?
 
2013-03-07 03:09:51 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.

Smoking is physically active for you?


Right now I'm doing some Excel programming at a company. It's helpful to get away from VBA about once and hour, smoke a couple of cigs, and stretch the legs. I get some of my best ideas that way.
 
2013-03-07 03:11:24 PM  

RobSeace: I'm curious if this type of hiring discrimination would work in reverse... Could you require all employees to be smokers and fire anyone who quits smoking?? If so, would it then be legal to allow smoking inside the workplace, since everyone is already a smoker, so you're not exposing any non-smokers to it? (I think I recall some bar trying that tactic to avoid laws against smoking in bars, and that didn't fly... But, there they also have random members of the public coming in, and I suppose you can't test every one of them at the door to make sure they're smokers before letting them in...)


I doubt it.  Even as a smoker, I would not want to work in a place where everyone smokes inside.  I don't mind going outside to smoke.  It's the self-righteous punks that make even smoking outside illegal that annoy me.  I was once smoking outside, and the lady walked by me covering her mouth as she passed by.  She walked up to the curb as a bus sending out a massive plume of black smoke passed in front her.  She did not have her mouth covered.  My thought was, "Stupid self-righteous biatch."
 
2013-03-07 03:17:27 PM  
addy2:  He's responding to people replying to or commenting on his posts. As you just did. Where's the problem?


I think it's just the insufferable, "wake up sheeple," quasi-intellectual ranting that wears on me.

I actually agree with many of the sentiments, but the delivery is grating and overly condescending.

It's not as if anyone actually cares about my opinion anyway.
 
2013-03-07 03:24:41 PM  

Pangea: addy2:  He's responding to people replying to or commenting on his posts. As you just did. Where's the problem?


I think it's just the insufferable, "wake up sheeple," quasi-intellectual ranting that wears on me.

I actually agree with many of the sentiments, but the delivery is grating and overly condescending.

It's not as if anyone actually cares about my opinion anyway.


Oh, I see. But he's trying and coming back for more and I have to admire that.
And no one cares what any of us think. That's why we come here.: )
 
2013-03-07 03:42:44 PM  

RobSeace: I'm curious if this type of hiring discrimination would work in reverse... Could you require all employees to be smokers and fire anyone who quits smoking?? If so, would it then be legal to allow smoking inside the workplace, since everyone is already a smoker, so you're not exposing any non-smokers to it? (I think I recall some bar trying that tactic to avoid laws against smoking in bars, and that didn't fly... But, there they also have random members of the public coming in, and I suppose you can't test every one of them at the door to make sure they're smokers before letting them in...)


A bar in my hometown was about to do something similar. I'm from a small college town and the bar scene was popular among the young smoking crowd. The town wanted to do the whole clean air thing and decided to ban smoking in restaurants/bars while students were away on summer break. They did it at this specific time so the college students wouldn't feel like they were missing out on their habit. The bars suffered damaging losses during the summer, 4 of the 11 shut down. The students came back in fall and the bars still had a low turnout (2 more closed after that). Even us folk that lived there year round were turned off about going down to bar street under the new ordinance, the ones that survived were well established restaurants that turned bar at night. The bars are starting to slowly pick up again but it isn't like it was before.

So back to that one bar owner, he talked to his lawyer and they found a loophole where he would be able to make it possible. Register the bar a private club with membership fees... he went bankrupt before he could try that platform.

My current favorite smoking ban is at the community college in my new town. They removed the social-smoking patio and banned smoking from the campus. However, they still allow you to smoke if you are sitting in a vehicle on the campus (even if you have the windows down). What if you don't have a vehicle? Either sit in a friend's car, smoke on the campus and get hit with a $50 fine, or run across a busy 4 lane, 50mph road to smoke on the sidewalk across the street.
 
2013-03-07 04:46:09 PM  

wildcardjack: That's because you could stop being a smoker.


You could stop being a Muslim too.  Other Muslims might kill you for it however, so quitting smoking might be wiser.
 
2013-03-07 05:39:22 PM  

j4x: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

Cool.

When can we start not hiring fat people??


Depends, do you hire for Hooters?
 
2013-03-07 06:10:11 PM  
Whoever you are you should be against BS like this.  If your employer can dictate what legal activities you can participate in while not being paid then you aren't as much of an employee as your are virtual property of the company.

For people who applaud this, rest easy knowing you are effectively a marketing tool for insurance companies and corporate power.

It's bizarre to me how effective they have been at creating a virtual witch hunt on smoking/smokers.
 
2013-03-07 06:43:25 PM  

feckingmorons: Smokers are not a protected class.


There are a few states which actually do make it a protected class. I'm too lazy to look it up, but seriously, some states do make it illegal to not hire or to fire someone who does something that is completely legal on their own time.

This will probably get more attention as states legalize marijuana.

And it should be the law everywhere.

They can make it policy to prohibit smoking on their property. I may not like that, but that should be well within an employer's rights. What you do on your own time however, should be none of their farking business.
 
2013-03-07 06:49:10 PM  

skantea: If you get the right e-cig, the switch-over will work.  I smoked for 20 years.

Time to let it go.


e-cigs suck. I've tried at least a half dozen of them and none of them even comes close to providing the same satisfaction as an actual cigarette.;

I don't smoke anymore and do use an e-cig, but e-cigs do suck.

If you can suggest a better one, please do. I've got a Volt X2 and a Vision Spinner on my desk and no, they are not even close to being as good as a real cigarette.
 
2013-03-07 06:55:58 PM  

Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.


I can't tell you how many times I've gone out for a "smoke break" at work and taken work with me and at the same time seen non-smokers just shooting the shiat around the water cooler when I was going outside and when I came back in.

You can't judge a worker's performance on the basis of whether they smoke or not. There's a lot more to it than that. If you can't see it, you shouldn't be a manager of anything.
 
2013-03-07 07:20:42 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.


yeah but you don't have to smoke
smokings for losers with good lungs (unlike mine) mine are black and dirty
 
2013-03-07 07:35:48 PM  

wildcardjack: That's because you could stop being a smoker.


comments should have been closed right here
 
2013-03-07 08:50:07 PM  
That rule doesn't apply to everyone, evidently.
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-03-07 08:56:17 PM  

dbrunker: That rule doesn't apply to everyone, evidently.
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 185x240]


Is Obama moonlighting at a hospital in Orlando? You'd think that would have made the news.

I guess he's gotta try out Obamacare somewhere.
 
2013-03-07 11:31:13 PM  

Relatively Obscure: I loved, loved, LOVED smoking.  I recently quit for health reasons, but barring that I'd dearly love to be smoking right now.

Nobody should be forced to put up with it, though.  Smoking is a personal choice.  Being African, female, or lesbian is not.  Being Muslim kind of is, but that involves freedom of speech and religion, which should be encouraged if for no other reason than your personal right to laugh at Muslims if you want to.


www.troll.me
 
2013-03-08 12:58:07 AM  
Pity the smokers.  They are so persecuted!
 
2013-03-08 01:13:24 AM  

Thunderpipes: What is next, if you drink soda you can be discriminated against? If you use plastic shopping bags? If you drive a car?

People need to stop being offended so much. We are spiraling out of control.


There is that....but over sensitivity is far outweighed by overly inconsiderate.  Oddly enough, in my experience those two groups overlap a lot on the Venn diagram.
 
2013-03-08 01:48:33 AM  

MindStalker: DrPainMD: Put me on the jury and nobody would be convicted of discriminating against anybody for any reason. Freedom of association is a basic right.

What if you work for, say the DMV, or other essential government services?


That would be the exception. The 14th Amendment (equal protection) forbids the government from discriminating.
 
2013-03-08 01:49:54 AM  

SpectroBoy: DrPainMD: Put me on the jury and nobody would be convicted of discriminating against anybody for any reason. Freedom of association is a basic right.

You sound..... white.


Why is it always assumed that only white people want freedom? For your information, there are a lot of minorities in the libertarian movement. But, I guess they're all Uncle Toms to you.
 
2013-03-08 01:51:53 AM  

mbillips: DrPainMD: Put me on the jury and nobody would be convicted of discriminating against anybody for any reason. Freedom of association bigotry is a basic right.


Of course. No philosophy or belief system can be outlawed.
 
2013-03-08 06:23:57 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Nicotine addiction, like alcoholism, is a disease. If the employer is willing to ignore the rights of the sick, I'm happy to just as well take my business somewhere else.

I'm no smoker. I can't stand the smell of tobacco. But it's a pretty low person who will make it a policy to discriminate against someone because of a disease.


Hahahaha, oh god... you're serious. Haha.
 
2013-03-08 08:52:28 AM  

DrPainMD: SpectroBoy: DrPainMD: Put me on the jury and nobody would be convicted of discriminating against anybody for any reason. Freedom of association is a basic right.

You sound..... white.

Why is it always assumed that only white people want freedom? For your information, there are a lot of minorities in the libertarian movement. But, I guess they're all Uncle Toms to you.


I don't doubt that there are black libertarians. There are also gay Republicans. But what I can tell you is that I have never heard anyone who was not white say racism is no longer a problem and that  legal protection is no longer required.
 
2013-03-08 10:23:33 PM  
0.tqn.com
 
2013-03-09 09:23:45 PM  

SpectroBoy: DrPainMD: SpectroBoy: DrPainMD: Put me on the jury and nobody would be convicted of discriminating against anybody for any reason. Freedom of association is a basic right.

You sound..... white.

Why is it always assumed that only white people want freedom? For your information, there are a lot of minorities in the libertarian movement. But, I guess they're all Uncle Toms to you.

I don't doubt that there are black libertarians. There are also gay Republicans. But what I can tell you is that I have never heard anyone who was not white say racism is no longer a problem and that  legal protection is no longer required.


Of course not. The mainstream media will never publish it. That doesn't mean it doesn't occur. Hell, there were black civil rights leaders back in the 1960s who were against the so-called civil rights act. There are gay rights activists who are against non-discrimination laws. Good luck finding quotes from them, tho.
 
2013-03-10 05:09:54 PM  
RockofAges:
-- the pussification of our society (see: yourself and your predictable hipster butthurt slash zero-contribution to the thread while threadshiatting stance. Bravo.)
-- a continuing trend towards endorsing authoritarian mores and ways as long as you, yourself, don't belong to the outgroup.



You're clearly quite hardcore, as evidenced when you equate a desire to avoid a proven carcinogen as being "pussified." You know who is a lot more offensive than smokers? Self-righteous assholes with a god-complex who can deliver a line like you can without a hint of snark.

I can hear a cry for help from you every time you post. You're barking as loud as you can, but it never really accomplishes much of anything. You're big words with no substance. You can't seem to come to terms with the fact that you're just not that interesting.
 
2013-03-10 08:51:28 PM  
My greatest solace is knowing that I get to be again tomorrow and you have to go through the rest of your life being you. I am content with that.
 
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