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(Mother Nature Network)   It's illegal to not hire somebody because she is an African Muslim lesbian in a wheelchair. But nobody cares if the only reason you don't get a job is because you're a smoker   (mnn.com) divider line 280
    More: Interesting, BusinessNewsDaily, TechMediaNetwork, lesbians, nationalities, tobacco products  
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7768 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2013 at 6:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-07 10:44:22 AM  

addy2: Esroc: I'm a smoker and I support this. Smoking is a disgusting habit and I hate myself every time I light up. I can fully understand the people saying this violates your rights because smoking is legal, and it's really none of the company's business. But I can also say, from experience, that smoking needs to stop. And anything that can be done to do it is worth it.

We live in a country that makes it a crime to own one harmless plant that just gets you a little high, but makes it legal to own one that slowly kills you while simultaneously convincing you that it's totally worth it.

/Bah, now I have to go flush my cigs again. 100th times the charm.

Other smokers aren't responsible for your self hatred. Quit already and shut up about it.


www.westseattlefunblog.com
 
2013-03-07 10:54:35 AM  

j4x: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

Cool.

When can we start not hiring fat people??


Since forever? 1, 2, 3, 4
Not saying it's right, just saying it's reality.
 
2013-03-07 11:00:33 AM  
I agree that one of these things should be fixed.
 
2013-03-07 11:01:36 AM  
I'd like to add a little example of how this policy can work for all parties.  Scotts Growing Company.

A few years back they made national headlines when they refused to hire anyone who smoked or used tobacco products.  They then went on to give their employees one year to kick the habit or risk losing company insurance. Sounds horrible right?  Except the company went out and paid for nicotine therapy and cesastion programs and a whole host of other things to help them kick the habit. A friend of mine works within their HR department.  One of the internal emails he's seen has shown a 27% increase in productivity along with a  45% reduction of the companies health insurance.  Works out well for both sides if you ask me.
 
2013-03-07 11:11:43 AM  

RockofAges: jayphat: I'd like to add a little example of how this policy can work for all parties.  Scotts Growing Company.

A few years back they made national headlines when they refused to hire anyone who smoked or used tobacco products.  They then went on to give their employees one year to kick the habit or risk losing company insurance. Sounds horrible right?  Except the company went out and paid for nicotine therapy and cesastion programs and a whole host of other things to help them kick the habit. A friend of mine works within their HR department.  One of the internal emails he's seen has shown a 27% increase in productivity along with a  45% reduction of the companies health insurance.  Works out well for both sides if you ask me.

Wow, I simultaneously believe your corporate propaganda AND that someone actually WORKS in HR! Two cockatrices with one Archimedes' death ray!

Big Brother knows what's good for YOU, citizen! Would you like to know more? [Link to HR Internal Memo]


Yes, because I'm going to call him up right now, ask if he still has a 2 year old memo, have him email it to me, and convert that over to PDF for a Fark thread.
 
2013-03-07 11:12:58 AM  
Over in 2.
 
2013-03-07 11:18:03 AM  
The problem a lot of people have with smokers is that a huge percentage of them are inconsiderate assholes.

You want to smoke? Fine. You're going to have to earn those 'rights' you think you get though.

1. Stop throwing your butts out the Window, I'm getting tired of the brush fires.

2. Quit lighting up in front of me. If you can get lung cancer, obviously I can s's well.

3. Get out from directly in front of the farking door. The same people who don't want you smoking inside also don't want you creating a nearly impenetrable wall of smoke blocking access to the inside.

4. Quit throwing your farking butts all over the sidewalk, the gutters, porches, the road, etc. Have a little police and pick up after yourself. My buddy can field strip a butt so that it's completely safe to dump in the trash. If you think handling a butt is "icky", then you're actually on the right track.

Not everything ts some kind of attack on you, but you've picked the one vice that people standing near you are immediately and directly affected by. Grow up and accept responsibility for your actions.

The good news is that more smokers actually ARE being courteous, so there's hope yet.
 
2013-03-07 11:27:41 AM  
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who works with a girl in HR. I guess it's pretty effective.
 
2013-03-07 11:28:39 AM  

RockofAges: t sounds like you live and work in a Brave New World. One we should all aspire to. Everyone knows everyone elses business. Everyone judges, spies, and reports everyone else. What you do at home is no longer private business, but everyone elses too. 

Sounds great.


I agree.   The things the poster I was quoting was wondering about are already here.  Employers still retain the right to fire you for using the reefer stick in your personal time even where a State has legalized it.  Other employers have fired folks for social media posting of what they have done on their time outside of the work place.  Never said I liked the policies, just reporting the way it is.
 
2013-03-07 11:40:27 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie [TotalFark]

RockofAges: Try mixing both and rolling your own, and slowly cutting back the pinch you put in with the green. A relative of mine quit in this fashion, slowly, over a year.

Hmmm, interesting : )


My friend smoked regularly for a week, put every butt in a glass jar with a little water and set it in the sun. At the end of the week every time she wanted a cig she took the cap off and smelled the contents. She must be going on 20+yrs without.
 
2013-03-07 11:42:16 AM  

RockofAges: Yea, all those cigarette butts sure are catastrophically destroying America. How much garbage do you think you've thrown out in your entire life? Do you recycle every single piece of cardboard you consume? Do you recycle all paper you consume (receipts and up?) Do you drive a vehicle (if so, you're contributing far worse to pollution than a pedestrian smoker, and to the air quality problems which affect millions worldwide).


Yeah, spoken like a truly self centered smoker. By far, the MOST prevalent litter I see on the streets today is cigarette butts. hundreds for every single can or soda bottle. Everywhere. Amazingly large amounts NEXT to the ashtrays people put outside to give the poor, disadvantaged smoker somewhere to put their butts. Instead, they throw them on the ground NEXT to it.

/And no, I don't litter
//When I go out hiking, I pack out other people's littler
///I recycle what I can
////Poor you, I seem to have hit a nerve
 
2013-03-07 11:46:12 AM  

dready zim: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time. Unless it affects your performance at work or your interactions with your other workers negatively.

FTFY


You being * negatively affects my interaction with you at work.

* Choose any from the following to fill in the blank...
ugly
fat
a fan of a different sports team than me
better at your job than me
paid more than me
black
asian
female
 
2013-03-07 11:53:55 AM  
So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?
 
2013-03-07 11:56:43 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-07 11:56:58 AM  

kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.


I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities. We have an agreement where I provide professional skills, and in exchange I receive compensation for my abilities. (Gods above, I sound a gorram stripper or whore. Oh well, possibly accurate)
If they want to triple the amount of time in which I am obliged to follow their instructions, and are willing to triple my pay (corresponding overtime/comp time to be calculated as required by law) then we can certainly come to terms. I try to be reasonable about these things.

/All right, I'm just greedy.
 
2013-03-07 12:01:48 PM  
Smoking is a choice.  Being a black lesbian in a wheelchair is not.
 
2013-03-07 12:02:05 PM  

Mikey1969: By far, the MOST prevalent litter I see on the streets today is cigarette butts. hundreds for every single can or soda bottle. Everywhere. Amazingly large amounts NEXT to the ashtrays people put outside to give the poor, disadvantaged smoker somewhere to put their butts. Instead, they throw them on the ground NEXT to it.


Not that I endorse such littering (I, too, think it's outrageously lazy), but I recently read this story in SciAm, and was surprised to find that a bit of such litter around may actually be helpful to birds, at least...
 
2013-03-07 12:09:20 PM  

Kaltros: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities.


Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.
 
2013-03-07 12:14:21 PM  
RockofAges: Bla bla


Businesses have the right to determine their own hiring practices and cost saving measures. Why do you want to take away their freedom to conduct business the way they want? It's people like you who enable the government to erode our liberties. Do you really think we need more regulations?
 
2013-03-07 12:18:11 PM  

Robert Farker: RockofAges: Bla bla


Businesses have the right to determine their own hiring practices and cost saving measures. Why do you want to take away their freedom to conduct business the way they want? It's people like you who enable the government to erode our liberties. Do you really think we need more regulations?


You sound Republican.
 
2013-03-07 12:20:01 PM  
Yeah, smoking is legal and while I'd be cool if you couldn't smoke at work, banning smoking at all is a bad precedent.
 
2013-03-07 12:20:42 PM  
...and on the day that smokers become a protected class, you can complain about it.

(don't hold your breath, even if you could)
 
2013-03-07 12:22:26 PM  

kid_icarus: Kaltros: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities.

Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.




Sounds like you are hiding something. Only criminals and poor job performers have something to hide.

I recommed employers require bank account information. That way we can be sure that the employee is doing exactly what we want with the money we pay. Better have receipts too.
 
2013-03-07 12:27:53 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: kid_icarus: Kaltros: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities.

Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.

Sounds like you are hiding something. Only criminals and poor job performers have something to hide.

I recommed employers require bank account information. That way we can be sure that the employee is doing exactly what we want with the money we pay. Better have receipts too.


Private business's don't need that information. That's what the IRS and the ACA are for. Better to make sure your money is being spent right citizen.
 
2013-03-07 12:33:05 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: kid_icarus: Kaltros: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities.

Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.

Sounds like you are hiding something. Only criminals and poor job performers have something to hide.

I recommed employers require bank account information. That way we can be sure that the employee is doing exactly what we want with the money we pay. Better have receipts too.


We need to let employers place cameras and listening devices in our homes, so they can see what we're up to.  If we stay up past our bedtime, we will be less productive at work.  If we don't eat a nutritious breakfast, we will be less productive at work.  Remember folks, work isn't a means to an end.  Work IS the end!
 
2013-03-07 12:37:14 PM  

jayphat: Private business's don't need that information. That's what the IRS and the ACA are for. Better to make sure your money is being spent right citizen.


Don't forget to report for your morning calisthenics in front of the telescreen.
 
2013-03-07 12:44:32 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-07 12:47:35 PM  

Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?


The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.
 
2013-03-07 12:48:01 PM  

kid_icarus: Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.


As long as they're willing to pay me triple, plus overtime, I'm totally willing to discuss it with them.

Yet somehow, I get the impression these companies are choosing to overlook that aspect of the equation. If 8 hours of my time = $X, then 24 hours of my time would = $X x 3 + overtime.
 
2013-03-07 12:49:41 PM  

jayphat: StoPPeRmobile: kid_icarus: Kaltros: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

I have no problem with my employer wanting input on my out-of-office activities.

Good for you. I do have a problem with it, though. Whether we're talking about smoking, political affiliation, sexual orientation, drinking or religion...it's none of anyone's business but your own and you shouldn't be compelled to disclose private information.

Sounds like you are hiding something. Only criminals and poor job performers have something to hide.

I recommed employers require bank account information. That way we can be sure that the employee is doing exactly what we want with the money we pay. Better have receipts too.

Private business's don't need that information. That's what the IRS and the ACA are for. Better to make sure your money is being spent right citizen.


IRS and ACA don't care if you buy TV dinners and McDonalds instead of brocolli and carrot like you're supposed to do.

Corporations need to do this for wellness of the employee.
 
2013-03-07 12:50:35 PM  

busy chillin': Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?

The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.


THAT, sounds like a good thing, actually.
 
2013-03-07 12:52:05 PM  

RockofAges: Honestly, where we all these anti-smoking nannies up until big government decided to "denormalize" (ie. actively stigmatize and encourage others to demonize / pile on as well) smoking? Where they smoking themselves during the 50's 60's 70's and 80's, or where they just too timid to make their stand without having the mob opinion / big bro on their side?

To me it's just straight hilarious, because I'm not a pansy and I basically don't complain whatsoever about the lifestyle choices of others (because I expect the same latitude). My response to people who complain about people smoking outside in the snow by the doors? Hold your damn breath for two seconds. If you seriously caterwaul about inhaling about 2 seconds of cigarette smoke indirectly and it's the WORST THING EVAR in your life, you are representative of the soft, unworked, babied contingent of our society and frankly you've not enough perspective on what's really hard in life for me to even value your opinion.

In short, anti-smoking-drones make me lol both due to their mass conformity, oversensitive hysterics, and general plaintiveness. Meanwhile, you'll never hear them loudly cough theatrically as rigs, trucks, and cars pass by them on the sidewalk. I avoid drama queens.


Re read your post. You _are_ a drama queen.
 
2013-03-07 12:56:25 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: IRS and ACA don't care if you buy TV dinners and McDonalds instead of brocolli and carrot like you're supposed to do.

Corporations need to do this for wellness of the employee


Corporation don't "need" to do this.

They don't do it because they "care" what you eat.  They do it to save money on inusrance and have more productive employees.
 
2013-03-07 01:01:57 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: busy chillin': Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?

The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.

THAT, sounds like a good thing, actually.


Why? How does a smoking spouse effect the person working abilities to do their job?
 
2013-03-07 01:04:53 PM  

busy chillin': Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?

The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.


Does that go to your children as well, since they can be on their parents insurance until they are 24?
 
2013-03-07 01:06:41 PM  

RockofAges: Robert Farker: RockofAges: Bla bla


Businesses have the right to determine their own hiring practices and cost saving measures. Why do you want to take away their freedom to conduct business the way they want? It's people like you who enable the government to erode our liberties. Do you really think we need more regulations?

I already dismissed you once, quickly, and effectively, exposing you for a corporatist shill.

Please don't waste my time further with arguments that a child could deconstruct. Find someone of your own limited mental size to practice with.



I don't control how you spend your time. If you want to waste it cowering from debating your opinion that's all on you.
 
2013-03-07 01:07:32 PM  

Burr: busy chillin': Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?

The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.

Does that go to your children as well, since they can be on their parents insurance until they are 24?


We didn't look into that far. But it seems the authoritarian reach is endless.


And all of these powers that be are laughing and thinking "Oh, they think we do this because we care about them and their health. That's cute."
 
2013-03-07 01:12:05 PM  

busy chillin': StoPPeRmobile: busy chillin': Burr: So, I don't smoke, but my wife does.

Is that grounds for not hiring me?

How far into your personal life will these companies go before they are satisfied? Will they need to bring in my entire family for screening eventually?

The Kansas Turnpike Authority won't hire someone if their spouse smokes.

THAT, sounds like a good thing, actually.

Why? How does a smoking spouse effect the person working abilities to do their job?


If you are breathing trackter-trailer exhaust fumes all day, the last thing we need is for your spouse to be enjoying the priviledge of freedom.
 
2013-03-07 01:14:50 PM  
I don't do anything addictive at work ...  caffeine, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food or drugs. Some people hate the smell of anything, and in my line of work I need to be up-close with people and friendly. Trust me, I hate the smell of fast food. It literally makes me nauseous. So does coffee-breath, it's disgusting. Both of which are horrible for your health and are addictive.

That said, I don't believe any business has a right to censor what an employee can legally do. I don't care if it is THEIR business people are working at; people are not slaves to their work 24/7/365.
 
2013-03-07 01:17:16 PM  
StoPPeRmobile:

If you are breathing trackter-trailer exhaust fumes all day, the last thing we need is for your spouse to be enjoying the priviledge of freedom.

I wonder if those people get home and need a hit off an big rig exhaust pipe just to make it through the night.
 
2013-03-07 01:18:49 PM  

j4x: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

Cool.

When can we start not hiring fat people??


Why stop at fat people? When can we stop hiring people who wear too much cologne/perfume or just the kinds we don't like. When can we stop hiring people who gamble?
 
2013-03-07 01:22:52 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Nicotine addiction, like alcoholism, is a disease. If the employer is willing to ignore the rights of the sick, I'm happy to just as well take my business somewhere else.

I'm no smoker. I can't stand the smell of tobacco. But it's a pretty low person who will make it a policy to discriminate against someone because of a disease.



Interesting twist. Nicotine addiction, like alcoholism is treatable. Whether you choose 12-step programs, religion, or pure willpower is not important. Calling an addiction a disease is not justification for doing nothing about it.

If a bus driver with diabetes refuses to take insulin he doesn't get a free pass because his employers are discriminating against someone with a disease by firing him.

Preemptively, that is NOT apples to oranges. You already referred to nicotine addiction as a disease.
 
2013-03-07 01:23:56 PM  

jso2897: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

This is true - and since you will not be insuring this person for their entire lifetime, you will not get the "early death" payoff. The fact that a smoker costs less to insure over the course of their entire life doesn't help you one bit, because they will be sicker during the time you have to cover their insurance.


There is one thing every anti-smoking zealot like yourself forgets. Smokers pay shiatloads of taxes on cigarettes.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403

17.2 billion in taxes last year. (No I didn't read it wrong, it's 17,267,568 in [thousands of dollars], or 17,267,568,000). So I guess when you come up with a plan to replace 17 billion in tax revenue, I'll think your argument might have merit.
 
2013-03-07 01:26:59 PM  

liam76: StoPPeRmobile: IRS and ACA don't care if you buy TV dinners and McDonalds instead of brocolli and carrot like you're supposed to do.

Corporations need to do this for wellness of the employee

Corporation don't "need" to do this.

They don't do it because they "care" what you eat.  They do it to save money on inusrance and have more productive employees.


"Wellness" is code for lower insurance rates. Please do keep up.
 
2013-03-07 01:28:25 PM  

busy chillin': StoPPeRmobile:

If you are breathing trackter-trailer exhaust fumes all day, the last thing we need is for your spouse to be enjoying the priviledge of freedom.

I wonder if those people get home and need a hit off an big rig exhaust pipe just to make it through the night.


That, they are allowed to do.
 
2013-03-07 02:09:06 PM  
What happens if you apply for a job there and are in the process of giving up smoking by using nicotine patches? Then they will not hire you, even though you are not smoking.

As well, FTFA:   "In my opinion, anytime a company attempts to regulate an employee's private life, that in no way has an impact on their employment" ***

*** This does not include smokers who work on the 20th floor who have to wait 5-10 minutes for a lift going down to where they can have their smoke break then wait ANOTHER 5-10 minutes to come back up again while the overworked non-smoker does their work without being allowed the equivalent length of break from their tasks
 
2013-03-07 02:11:49 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.


Smoking is physically active for you?
 
2013-03-07 02:22:04 PM  

empres77: Studies have shown that smokers take 40% more breaks than non-smokers.


You are assuming that time at one's desk is productive time, which is a load of steaming, foul-smelling shiat.
 
2013-03-07 02:22:36 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NobleHam: I'm a smoker, but I understand this. It makes you smell and you need a break every hour so you're not as productive.

Guess what? Taking a 5 minute physically active break every hour makes you more productive.

Smoking is physically active for you?


Not all of us take our breaks at the desk.
 
2013-03-07 02:23:35 PM  
This is not new.  Many hospitals have this rule now.  How the fark can anyone defend the right of a company to ban smoking because of the smell?  How about people who sweat profusely and refuse to wear deodorant, or it just does not work on them?  How about the smelly bastards that feel the need to put on enough perfume/cologne to choke the life out of someone with asthma or perople who are allergic to the stuff?  Imagine people prior to the invention of the light bulb complaining about the smell of smoke, probably rare.  It's all for insurance purposes.

/slippery slope
//watch out for future fat discrimination
///will have to hand over medical history as part of the interview process
 
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