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(Mother Nature Network)   It's illegal to not hire somebody because she is an African Muslim lesbian in a wheelchair. But nobody cares if the only reason you don't get a job is because you're a smoker   (mnn.com) divider line 280
    More: Interesting, BusinessNewsDaily, TechMediaNetwork, lesbians, nationalities, tobacco products  
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7770 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2013 at 6:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-07 07:21:33 AM  
On my mobile so no linky:

http://m.wbtv.com/autojuice?targetUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wbtv.com%2fsto r y%2f17114320%2fsmokers-waste-5-weeks-a-year-taking-smoke-breaks-survey -shows
 
2013-03-07 07:22:02 AM  

dr_blasto: Pharmdawg: Smokers in my experience take more breaks than others I manage. They also have more upper respiratory infections and potentially get cancer, raising health insurance rates for everyone. And they stink.

We have one dude in my department who smokes. He is never sick. There's two fat guys, however, that use up all their sick time in the first three or four months of the year, then start having to use their vacation time. They are also not as productive, spending a good two hours every day sitting around in the break room watching TV and BSing.

It's all anecdotal. There's another guy, a bodybuilder, who is sick all the damn time too.


I smoke and have been with the same company for 13 years. I can count on one hand how many sick days I've taken in all that time. The fatties and people with kids on the other hand, can probably count on one hand the number of full weeks they've worked in their tenure.
 
2013-03-07 07:22:11 AM  

Cold_Sassy: and the alcoholic


Try going to work drunk and/or hung over. See what happens.
 
2013-03-07 07:23:52 AM  
To be fair, I wouldn't hire a smoker either
i1200.photobucket.com
/though I'd take one over a boomer.
//and I'd hire a witch in a second....just need to work on her attitude problem.
 
2013-03-07 07:24:19 AM  

wildcardjack: That's because you could stop being a smoker.


You can stop being a Muslim.
 
2013-03-07 07:24:23 AM  
So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.
 
2013-03-07 07:24:37 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: feckingmorons: Smokers are not a protected class.

This is all that needs to be said.


Although it might be better to state it correctly: "Personal habits are not a protected class".
The term "protected class" does not refer to specific groups of people, but rather to means by which different groups of people may be differentiated.
You most often find this misunderstanding among racists who will angrily claim that some other race is a "protected class", but that their race is not - when, in fact, it is race itself which is a protected class.
 
2013-03-07 07:26:16 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: It's not easy, sure the first month or two easy. More than a year and beyond very difficult.


Funny that, I almost broke and started smoking again in the first month. All the times when I failed my attempts at quitting happened within the first month. However, I didn't quit quitting and have now been smoke free for over a dozen years.
/good luck!
 
2013-03-07 07:27:02 AM  
Subby, I am curious, how does one survive being a Muslim lesbian? Is that why she's in the wheelchair? And does she have no feeling from the waste down?, because that makes it hard to appreciate being a lesbian.

/Probably for the best anyways. If she's from Africa, she probably has AIDS.
 
2013-03-07 07:27:40 AM  

RockofAges: empres77: On my mobile so no linky:

http://m.wbtv.com/autojuice?targetUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wbtv.com%2fsto r y%2f17114320%2fsmokers-waste-5-weeks-a-year-taking-smoke-breaks-survey -shows

Yes.

WBTV firstly. I believe it.

Secondly.

Smokers literally waste five weeks (or approx 8-9% of the ENTIRE YEAR, or 20% of their time at work (lol)) taking smoke breaks. On average.

Yea, that sounds legit.

Maybe Canadians are superheroes or something, but since our government actually mandates that we get a certain amount of breaks, I have to admit that I've never, ever, seen a smoker leave the place of employment during any "mission critical" time to "FEED THE ADDICTION!!!!!". Maybe an extra break (tops) a day at 5-10 minutes. Wowzers. TIME THEFT!!


i think the REAL issue here, is that your employees might DIE
 
2013-03-07 07:28:07 AM  
Smokers - here's the world's tiniest violin playing for you.

Oh, and those calculating, cold-hearted "suits" who run the tobacco industry and their stockholders who are responsible for manufacturing and marketing a product that mains and KILLS is users and reduces the quality of life for those around them when used as designed - Die in a fire, slowly and painfully.
 
2013-03-07 07:28:29 AM  

jamspoon: People still smoke?


Some are still alive, yes.
 
2013-03-07 07:28:57 AM  

RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

You end up being a cancerous mess on their time.

No more pop and chips in the snack machine (bowel disease, obesity, diabetes). No more burgers for you on your off time (cholesteral, previous reasons).

Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly. Wanna talk about drains on society? What's the average BMI on fark, do you think? ;)


This.

And I don't mean it as snark, just to say that if you allow them to target one legal activity done on one's personal time I hope you don't think they'll stop there.  How long before they won't hire you because you're BMI is too high?
 
2013-03-07 07:30:19 AM  
When I was younger I noticed smokers got a lot more breaks than non smokers. I bought a pack of smokes and would join the smokers outside for their smoke breaks.

It took my supervisor (a smoker) over half a year to realize I never actually smoked on smoke breaks.
 
2013-03-07 07:31:54 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Esroc: I'm a smoker and I support this. Smoking is a disgusting habit and I hate myself every time I light up. I can fully understand the people saying this violates your rights because smoking is legal, and it's really none of the company's business. But I can also say, from experience, that smoking needs to stop. And anything that can be done to do it is worth it.

We live in a country that makes it a crime to own one harmless plant that just gets you a little high, but makes it legal to own one that slowly kills you while simultaneously convincing you that it's totally worth it.

/Bah, now I have to go flush my cigs again. 100th times the charm.

I know the feeling I've quit tobacco so many times and end up going back too it. That wild wood weed was always just for fun and I never had a problem in dry spells.
/Don't smoke it any more although I might be happier if I did.


You'd better served by switching from one to the other. Your lungs will thank you!
 
2013-03-07 07:32:23 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Day_Old_Dutchie: Smokers - here's the world's tiniest violin playing for you.

Oh, and those calculating, cold-hearted "suits" who run the tobacco industry and their stockholders who are responsible for manufacturing and marketing a product that mains and KILLS is users and reduces the quality of life for those around them when used as designed - Die in a fire, slowly and painfully.

someone sounds a little concerned.

1.2/10


maybe we should put "not for human consumption" labels on cigarettes, then if they use them as designed they won't kill
 
2013-03-07 07:32:35 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Frederick: TuteTibiImperes: If a company wants to regulate smoking on their premises I can understand that.  If they want to make a regulation that employees can not be at the workplace smelling of smoke, I can understand that too.

Restricting employees from engaging in a legal activity outside of the workplace just seems way over the line.

Part of me wonders if this isn't at least in part due to corporations seeing the tide turning towards marijuana legalization and wanting to set precedent now that will allow them to fire/not-hire marijuana users who partake outside of the workplace if it is legalized.

Thats an interesting perspective.  Mine was more along the lines of insurance costs.

I'm sure that plays into it as well, and that's another slipper slope.  What's next, mandatory cholesterol screenings and workplace mandated dieting  if your readings are too high?  Hair testing to see how often you have a drink at night and mandatory alcohol counseling if it isn't within your employer's (or insurer's) guidelines?


Why would that be a problem? If there are enough people out there to buy in that BS, go for it. I see it like this: you like getting care from smoke free nurses? That's because a lot of hospitals prohibit hiring of smokers. Think your nurse should be able to smoke? Go to the hospital that allows it.

I think for most businesses, if those policy is known that they severely restrict their workers, most people won't go there to shop...wait...nevermind; wal-mart.
 
2013-03-07 07:33:18 AM  

RockofAges: Honestly, where we all these anti-smoking nannies up until big government decided to "denormalize" (ie. actively stigmatize and encourage others to demonize / pile on as well) smoking? Where they smoking themselves during the 50's 60's 70's and 80's, or where they just too timid to make their stand without having the mob opinion / big bro on their side?

To me it's just straight hilarious, because I'm not a pansy and I basically don't complain whatsoever about the lifestyle choices of others (because I expect the same latitude). My response to people who complain about people smoking outside in the snow by the doors? Hold your damn breath for two seconds. If you seriously caterwaul about inhaling about 2 seconds of cigarette smoke indirectly and it's the WORST THING EVAR in your life, you are representative of the soft, unworked, babied contingent of our society and frankly you've not enough perspective on what's really hard in life for me to even value your opinion.

In short, anti-smoking-drones make me lol both due to their mass conformity, oversensitive hysterics, and general plaintiveness. Meanwhile, you'll never hear them loudly cough theatrically as rigs, trucks, and cars pass by them on the sidewalk. I avoid drama queens.



I'm sure you have it real rough with people coughing all around you, never knowing if it's a real cough or a fake one. Seriously man, clean the sand out and stop being such a pussy.
 
2013-03-07 07:33:53 AM  

radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.


They'll smell you at the interview. Cigarette smoke is distinctive.
 
2013-03-07 07:34:25 AM  

RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

You end up being a cancerous mess on their time.

No more pop and chips in the snack machine (bowel disease, obesity, diabetes). No more burgers for you on your off time (cholesteral, previous reasons).


If a company wants to mandate that, they're free to. Not many people would seek employment there.

Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly. Wanna talk about drains on society? What's the average BMI on fark, do you think? ;)

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about the company. They like to reduce risk, in terms of down time. Smoking is the low hanging fruit, the most obvious and easiest target to deal with. It's a numbers game and smokers lose no matter how you work the math.
 
2013-03-07 07:34:56 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Restricting employees from engaging in a legal activity outside of the workplace just seems way over the line.


Especially since you coudl failt his test by using patches, and gum...
 
2013-03-07 07:36:02 AM  

radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.


No, you sue their asses for asking questions they have no business asking on an application.
 
2013-03-07 07:36:29 AM  

Kurmudgeon: tinfoil-hat maggie: It's not easy, sure the first month or two easy. More than a year and beyond very difficult.

Funny that, I almost broke and started smoking again in the first month. All the times when I failed my attempts at quitting happened within the first month. However, I didn't quit quitting and have now been smoke free for over a dozen years.
/good luck!


Congrats, and I will keep trying to quit, I don't like doing it, and it's probably really I start back when life get's stressful.
 
2013-03-07 07:37:48 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Jon iz teh kewl: HindiDiscoMonster: Day_Old_Dutchie: Smokers - here's the world's tiniest violin playing for you.

Oh, and those calculating, cold-hearted "suits" who run the tobacco industry and their stockholders who are responsible for manufacturing and marketing a product that mains and KILLS is users and reduces the quality of life for those around them when used as designed - Die in a fire, slowly and painfully.

someone sounds a little concerned.

1.2/10

maybe we should put "not for human consumption" labels on cigarettes, then if they use them as designed they won't kill

i wonder though... what would they be used for if not to kill people? Some suggestions:

Lightweight objects to throw at people you are disgusted with.
Poison... that could be popular (I read that the nicotine extracted from 1 cig is enough when injected to kill someone - lethal injection anyone?) - that's the money saving idea
Decoration - you know, for art... some cigs and their packs are quite beautiful... they put allot into attracting people after all

those are my ideas... do you have any?


putting them around Amy Winehouse's grave

lauriegraham.com
 
2013-03-07 07:38:00 AM  
RockofAges:
Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly.

My dad smoked for more than 50 years. 2 packs a day. He died at 71. Not super quickly. 
In the sense of age and illness. He was pretty healthy, till the last few years.
 
2013-03-07 07:38:45 AM  
I just recently quit, I think this is dumb but I also think they can do whatever they want. They have ten fold as many applicants for one open position than they did 5 years ago, they can do whatever they want to be picky. I've personally never had health insurance through a job, so I doubt I would have worked for a company that did this.
 
2013-03-07 07:39:11 AM  
Dirty little secret of labor law is that you can discriminate against anyone for any reason, even prohibited reasons, just DON'T TELL ANYONE!

Seriously, employers so stupid as to tell a candidate that they didn't hire them based on (race/gender/other protected class) deserve what they get, which is usually a very large lawsuit. Standard verbiage to everyone interviewed is "thank you for applying; we found someone else who was more suitable to the position". You don't have to give them a reason, so DON'T! Not ever!

The only place where I have ever seen everyone hired strictly on merit is in (Canadian) government jobs. There are very strict guidelines about classification of positions, and rules on how to evaluate candidates. You end up with a numeric score which makes it very clear who the better candidate is. When there's a tie based on qualifications, then of course you have to hire the muslim lesbian in a wheelchair.
On average you get a slightly better outcome, but every hire is still a crapshoot whether they will get along with the team, which is really what matters. Everything else can be taught.
 
2013-03-07 07:39:25 AM  
What about raging alcoholics? I need to sue someone..
 
2013-03-07 07:39:34 AM  
What is next, if you drink soda you can be discriminated against? If you use plastic shopping bags? If you drive a car?

People need to stop being offended so much. We are spiraling out of control.
 
2013-03-07 07:40:28 AM  

CokeBear: Dirty little secret of labor law is that you can discriminate against anyone for any reason, even prohibited reasons, just DON'T TELL ANYONE!


That's what I was thinking. You don't have to give a reason for hiring someone else.
 
2013-03-07 07:40:30 AM  

Psylence: tinfoil-hat maggie: Esroc: I'm a smoker and I support this. Smoking is a disgusting habit and I hate myself every time I light up. I can fully understand the people saying this violates your rights because smoking is legal, and it's really none of the company's business. But I can also say, from experience, that smoking needs to stop. And anything that can be done to do it is worth it.

We live in a country that makes it a crime to own one harmless plant that just gets you a little high, but makes it legal to own one that slowly kills you while simultaneously convincing you that it's totally worth it.

/Bah, now I have to go flush my cigs again. 100th times the charm.

I know the feeling I've quit tobacco so many times and end up going back too it. That wild wood weed was always just for fun and I never had a problem in dry spells.
/Don't smoke it any more although I might be happier if I did.

You'd better served by switching from one to the other. Your lungs will thank you!


I know, unfortunately I have this thing where I really want a cig after I smoke and well I've heard it's the same for drinkers but ...
In a perfect world.
 
2013-03-07 07:41:17 AM  
Orlando Health will study applicants' levels of cotinine to determine if they are smokers or if they have simply been exposed to secondhand smoke.

Sense, this policy makes none.

Just another bullshiat way to make employees afraid of their employers.
 
2013-03-07 07:42:01 AM  

Earpj: RockofAges:
Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly.

My dad smoked for more than 50 years. 2 packs a day. He died at 71. Not super quickly. 
In the sense of age and illness. He was pretty healthy, till the last few years.


he could have lived to be 81 by not smoking at all

on the other hand he could have been unlucky like me, to get lung cancer at the age of 32 after smoking for 2 years.
 
2013-03-07 07:43:31 AM  
How about we just make a list of what you're allowed to consider instead.  Want to consider another parameter?  I'm sorry, it can't be done.  Granted, this is a different way of looking at it than the "protected X" method, but I think it will take the focus off of "can't" and shift it to "use this."
 
2013-03-07 07:43:49 AM  

Thudfark: radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.

No, you sue their asses for asking questions they have no business asking on an application.


In Amerika it doesn't work that way. They can even force you to take a blood test to see if you have nicotine in your system. Or anything else.
/Land of the free ya know....
 
2013-03-07 07:44:02 AM  
RockofAges:
Sorry about your dad. I did use "tend", and all situations are contextual. Smokers do die fairly quickly, on average, when they enter a terminal trajectory. Especially compared to most other risk groups, particularly the obese and diabetics.

I suppose. 
I think what upsets me more, is that my mom, who never smoked, is dying of colon cancer. The ONLY thing she has on the list of "causes" is living with my dad, and his smoke, for 47 years. 

Oh well, what ya gonna do? They were from an age where his MRE's had cigarettes in them.
 
2013-03-07 07:44:27 AM  

kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.


"I see on your resume that you're an avid meth user..."
"Uh yeah, so?"
"I'm sorry, we don't hire drug users"
"What?! That's not fair! You can't dictate what i do outside of the work place!!"
"Oh, well, when you put it that way... You're hired. Welcome to Rising Shine Daycare..."
 
2013-03-07 07:44:36 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Thudfark: radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.

No, you sue their asses for asking questions they have no business asking on an application.

In Amerika it doesn't work that way. They can even force you to take a blood test to see if you have nicotine in your system. Or anything else.
/Land of the free ya know....


what about crack are you allowed to use crack
 
2013-03-07 07:45:49 AM  

MythDragon: To be fair, I wouldn't hire a smoker either
[i1200.photobucket.com image 500x500]
/though I'd take one over a boomer.
//and I'd hire a witch in a second....just need to work on her attitude problem.


Damn it, now I have to reinstall and play it again...
 
2013-03-07 07:46:15 AM  

RockofAges: Try mixing both and rolling your own, and slowly cutting back the pinch you put in with the green. A relative of mine quit in this fashion, slowly, over a year.


Hmmm, interesting : )
 
2013-03-07 07:46:29 AM  
Jon iz teh kewl:
he could have lived to be 81 by not smoking at all

on the other hand he could have been unlucky like me, to get lung cancer at the age of 32 after smoking for 2 years.


This is also very true. Hell, he wasn't even diagnosed with lung cancer till a week before he passed. He had 25% lung apacity and used oxygen for a few years before that. 
I'm 2 states over, and my mom is GREAT at keeping stuff to herself. I never knew he was in the hospital, till he was already back home.
 
2013-03-07 07:46:55 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: What about raging alcoholics? I need to sue someone..


Yes, what about them? We need to ban them next. 

RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

You end up being a cancerous mess on their time.

No more pop and chips in the snack machine (bowel disease, obesity, diabetes). No more burgers for you on your off time (cholesteral, previous reasons).

If a company wants to mandate that, they're free to. Not many people would seek employment there.

Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly. Wanna talk about drains on society? What's the average BMI on fark, do you think? ;)

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about the company. They like to reduce risk, in terms of down time. Smoking is the low hanging fruit, the most obvious and easiest target to deal with. It's a numbers game and smokers lose no matter how you work the math.

Uh, what? In terms of short term productivity, the obese and the heavy drinker, as well as "women in general" (think: maternity, sick leave, etc) would beat out the smoker. How many smokers call in with "uhhhghh I think I smoked too much last night?".

Your answer is literally nonsensical. If you mean that smoking lowers the immune system and smokers get sicker, maybe. But fatties get way sicker, way more often, than most smokers. Not seeing your argument.


Women with children. They have to be out 2x as much as other employees to take care of children that they chose to have on their own personal time. I don't see why the company should have to lose productivity because of their life choices.

/ducks and runs
 
2013-03-07 07:47:37 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: tinfoil-hat maggie: Thudfark: radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.

No, you sue their asses for asking questions they have no business asking on an application.

In Amerika it doesn't work that way. They can even force you to take a blood test to see if you have nicotine in your system. Or anything else.
/Land of the free ya know....

what about crack are you allowed to use crack


You are but that's only because you're special ; )
 
2013-03-07 07:49:42 AM  
HindiDiscoMonster:
comes down to....
[image.made-in-china.com image 500x327]


I was sitting here:
"ass"? "Looking over your shoulder"? "Whoever that lady is? Should I know her? She does look kinda familiar.."
OH! Jeans.
 
2013-03-07 07:49:44 AM  

CeroX: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

"I see on your resume that you're an avid meth user..."
"Uh yeah, so?"
"I'm sorry, we don't hire drug users"
"What?! That's not fair! You can't dictate what i do outside of the work place!!"
"Oh, well, when you put it that way... You're hired. Welcome to Rising Shine Daycare..."


i76.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-07 07:51:14 AM  

RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: RockofAges: HotWingConspiracy: kid_icarus: Your employer shouldn't be able to dictate what you do outside work on your personal time.

You end up being a cancerous mess on their time.

No more pop and chips in the snack machine (bowel disease, obesity, diabetes). No more burgers for you on your off time (cholesteral, previous reasons).

If a company wants to mandate that, they're free to. Not many people would seek employment there.

Smokers actually tend to die pretty quickly. Wanna talk about drains on society? What's the average BMI on fark, do you think? ;)

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about the company. They like to reduce risk, in terms of down time. Smoking is the low hanging fruit, the most obvious and easiest target to deal with. It's a numbers game and smokers lose no matter how you work the math.

Uh, what? In terms of short term productivity, the obese and the heavy drinker, as well as "women in general" (think: maternity, sick leave, etc) would beat out the smoker. How many smokers call in with "uhhhghh I think I smoked too much last night?".


Yeah I already told you a company is free to put restrictions on hiring obese alcoholics as well. There aren't as many smokers as there are fat people, so companies can safely reduce their exposure to the labor pool of smokers. There's little to lose. Everything is by the numbers, you can't fight it.

Your answer is literally nonsensical. If you mean that smoking lowers the immune system and smokers get sicker, maybe. But fatties get way sicker, way more often, than most smokers. Not seeing your argument.

Smoker in my office just died of lung cancer a few months ago. He was gone for a year and drawing pay. His department suffered tremendously while things were sorted out. It sucks, he had even quit years ago, but just overindulged in his youth and it caught up to him.

This does happen, and smoking does cause cancer. Smokers are a risk, and risk is to be minimized.
 
2013-03-07 07:52:18 AM  

RockofAges: s, which are trying. However, in life, I have found nowadays that everyone needs a "cause" for every medical problem they encounter. Some things just develop, for a variety of reasons. People are living WAY longer than they used to, far longer than what our biology would naturally dictate in most cases. Cancer is nature's answer, so far, it would seem. And a horrible answer that we are trying to fight.

But old people get cancer. A lot. Age is the primary "cause" of cancer. Simple age. You live longer, your risk of getting a cancer somewhere due to any number of aggravating factors from eating certain foods to standing close to the microwave.

I personally think it's fairly conclusive that a 2 pack a day smoker might develop lung cancer, for sure. The other case? No way to rationally determine, but colon cancer from secondhand smoke does not seem as likely as simple age or dietary / stress conditions. Not a doctor though.


Very true, too. We'll never know. I do know that she was sick for, at least, a year before my brother forced her to go to the doctor. 
Life is a mystery. 

/Get your check-ups.
 
2013-03-07 07:52:20 AM  

feckingmorons: Smokers are not a protected class.


Some are more equal than others
 
2013-03-07 07:54:13 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Thudfark: radiobiz: So what you are saying is if the job application asks if you smoke, you lie and say no.

No, you sue their asses for asking questions they have no business asking on an application.

In Amerika it doesn't work that way. They can even force you to take a blood test to see if you have nicotine in your system. Or anything else.
/Land of the free ya know....


No they can't, it's entirely voluntary.
 
2013-03-07 07:54:31 AM  
i1129.photobucket.com
 
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