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(WREG Memphis)   Extremist right wing groups increase to all time high since election of Obama 4 years ago. But don't you dare call them racists   (wreg.com) divider line 213
    More: Obvious, Southern Poverty Law Center, Mark Potok, right-wing, Mid South, racists, Nation of Islam  
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1352 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Mar 2013 at 11:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-06 11:35:21 AM  

what_now: The Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate violence either.


They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.  The FRC, deluded as they are, seems like they are just against the sin.
 
2013-03-06 11:35:58 AM  

The Muthaship: what_now: But if you start defending the Family Research Counsel, you're going to get pushback.

Not defending them, honestly.  I disagree with everything they say.  But, I don't think they are a hate group.  They are fundies for sure.  They believe homosexuality is a sin.  They believe same sex marriage is a sin.  I still can't find anything credible that said they advocate violence of any kind.  The SPLC plays fast and loose with their labeling because it drives donations.  Unfortunately, it has consequences, too.  And, IMO, it casts them in a bad light.


Hate group, or "enabler of hate" group.  Whatever the f*ck you want to call them, they know that they incite hate. And so do you.

Remember Fox News:  "We're just asking questions here. Did Obama know about Benghazi and if so, did that cause the death of 4 Americans?"

Fox News Viewers:  "Nig**r!  We hate him, he stinks!  Murica!"
 
2013-03-06 11:38:30 AM  

The Muthaship: what_now: The Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate violence either.

They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.  The FRC, deluded as they are, seems like they are just against the sin.


No, they hate the shiat out of the sinner, too, and work hard to deny them/us civil rights. There is not one group on the SPLC's list that didn't earn it.
 
2013-03-06 11:39:28 AM  

coeyagi: The sad thing is, he MIGHT have an argument against the SPLC, but using the FRC as an example.... he has chosen..... pooooorly.


You might be right. The thing is, summarily dismissing the SPLC is like summarily dismissing the ACLU - for the most part, they're right, you just hate the messenger.

The SPLC may in fact mislabel some groups as hate groups when they are not. But my experience with the SPLC says this rarely, if ever, happens.
 
2013-03-06 11:40:28 AM  
Is this a repeat from 1995?
 
2013-03-06 11:42:24 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Is this a repeat from 1995?


Was it true in 1995?
 
2013-03-06 11:44:09 AM  

The Muthaship: what_now: The Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate violence either.

They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.  The FRC, deluded as they are, seems like they are just against the sin.


Ok, so...a hate group. They hate a certain group of people based on a characteristic. And if you read the thread, you'll see several people have provided citations about how evil this group really is.

In fact, I'd say their far WORSE than the Klan. The Klan is a joke. The Klan is marginalized. Tony Perkins gets to hang out with Senators and presidential candidates.
 
2013-03-06 11:44:34 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Is this a repeat from 1995?


No, there wasn't an influx of Muslims into the mid-South in 1995, plus 9/11 hadn't happened yet so rednecks hadn't added Muslims to the list of peoples who make them piss their pants like a bunch of cowards.  If anything this rise in groups is the natural mechanics of demographic change in the area.
 
2013-03-06 11:44:38 AM  

The Muthaship: what_now: The Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate violence either.

They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.  The FRC, deluded as they are, seems like they are just against the sin.


"Throw them in prison for the rest of their lives" is not just against the sin. Sorry.
 
2013-03-06 11:46:34 AM  

WTF Indeed: Dancin_In_Anson: Is this a repeat from 1995?

No, there wasn't an influx of Muslims into the mid-South in 1995, plus 9/11 hadn't happened yet so rednecks hadn't added Muslims to the list of peoples who make them piss their pants like a bunch of cowards.  If anything this rise in groups is the natural mechanics of demographic change in the area.


To be fair, the rednecks were always afraid of Muslims. Just not as much.
 
2013-03-06 11:48:16 AM  
The problem with the SPLC isn't so much their list of "hate groups." They have a long list, and most of the organizations listed are pretty much "oh, yeah, hate group."

The problem is that they list a lot of "groups" that are pretty much "some guy with a web site or a mailing address and maybe his cousin." A bunch of them don't even have actual web sites. Not exactly a big group if you can't even manage that.

Here's the Wikified version of the SPLC list: Link

You'll see a lot of the same old names on there... the KKK, Westboro, Nation of Islam.

You also see a lot of "who in the hell are those guys, and why are the only mentions I can find of them from the SPLC?" This category makes up the bulk of the "increase in extremist right wing groups." SPLC basically counted every mention they could link to a vague "right wing extremist" label, and pretended that an increase in tiny little groups they could list was some sort of indicator of an increase in "right wing extremism."
 
2013-03-06 11:48:49 AM  

coeyagi: what_now: The Muthaship: he FRC made the list for being advocates of traditional marriage.

The Family Research Counsel? That's what your going with? The organization that calls homosexuals pedophiles?

FRC : Advocates of traditional marriage

KKK : Advocates of traditional knot tying


+1
 
2013-03-06 11:50:49 AM  

Whiskey Pete: Dancin_In_Anson: Is this a repeat from 1995?

Was it true in 1995?



Do you mean, were there religious fundamentalist "the gubmint gon' git mah guns" Chicken Littles who armed themselves to the teeth and endangered the lives of others for the sake of pushing their bullshiat narrative?

www.ticklethewire.com  upload.wikimedia.org
Yeah, I guess you could say we had a few of those...
 
2013-03-06 11:52:52 AM  

The Muthaship: They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.


Nope, they hate the sinner too. Happy to see them executed.
 
2013-03-06 11:53:23 AM  

what_now: To be fair, the rednecks were always afraid of Muslims. Just not as much.


Southerns are afraid of anyone that ain't their kin. Which is the entire world.
 
2013-03-06 11:53:26 AM  

Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 493x672]


can't we keep the hot women?
 
2013-03-06 11:53:34 AM  

cirby: The problem with the SPLC isn't so much their list of "hate groups." They have a long list, and most of the organizations listed are pretty much "oh, yeah, hate group."

The problem is that they list a lot of "groups" that are pretty much "some guy with a web site or a mailing address and maybe his cousin." A bunch of them don't even have actual web sites. Not exactly a big group if you can't even manage that.

Here's the Wikified version of the SPLC list: Link

You'll see a lot of the same old names on there... the KKK, Westboro, Nation of Islam.

You also see a lot of "who in the hell are those guys, and why are the only mentions I can find of them from the SPLC?" This category makes up the bulk of the "increase in extremist right wing groups." SPLC basically counted every mention they could link to a vague "right wing extremist" label, and pretended that an increase in tiny little groups they could list was some sort of indicator of an increase in "right wing extremism."



How many members should a group have before you feel it's worth considering it a hate group?  Is "number of members" a good criterion for that?
 
2013-03-06 11:54:02 AM  

WTF Indeed: what_now: To be fair, the rednecks were always afraid of Muslims. Just not as much.

Southerns are afraid of anyone that ain't their kin. Which is the entire world.


now, now. This is a lovely thread. No need to get stupid all over it.
 
2013-03-06 11:54:31 AM  

Whiskey Pete: Was it true in 1995?


You tell me.


EyeballKid: Yeah, I guess you could say we had a few of those...


Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.
 
2013-03-06 11:58:06 AM  

skullkrusher: Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 493x672]

can't we keep the hot women?


Hot Southern Woman pour vous:

i1162.photobucket.com

You're welcome.
 
2013-03-06 12:00:14 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Whiskey Pete: Was it true in 1995?

You tell me.


EyeballKid: Yeah, I guess you could say we had a few of those...

Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.


Don't you have some wild hogs to shoot, Derpin' In Anson?
 
2013-03-06 12:01:34 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Awww ... just like the last time a Democrat was president.


Worse actually.
 
2013-03-06 12:02:41 PM  

Whiskey Pete: Don't you have some wild hogs to shoot, Derpin' In Anson?


That's the best response you've got? Weaksauce.
 
2013-03-06 12:03:04 PM  

Whiskey Pete: skullkrusher: Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 493x672]

can't we keep the hot women?

Hot Southern Woman pour vous:

[i1162.photobucket.com image 193x261]

You're welcome.


there was an image of a hot woman on that book cover. Plus there are a pretty good number of hot women down there.
 
2013-03-06 12:03:39 PM  
Its really not frank racism. It's a Democrat in the White House. We saw the exact same thing happen blossom under Clinton, though the violent fringe right really started in the early ninities in response to GHWB and "new world order" paranoia,, and it culminated in OKC, Erc Rudoplh and eventually Columbine. (/11 was really what put a stop to it for about a decade, and Obama's election concided with the resurgence of domestic hate groups, but in a macro sense, its not that he's black, although that doesn't hurt, its that he represents a threatening federal power and we don't really have an external enemy to unite us right now.  the USA has a long, long history of violent radicalism across the political spectrum and it only ever goes away when we have a moment of cultural unity, like a war or an economic boom that raises everyone's fortunes, and that hasn't happened since the late 70's.
 
2013-03-06 12:05:40 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.


The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco so his messiah complex could meet a self-fulfilling prophecy; the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.
 
2013-03-06 12:06:33 PM  

willfullyobscure: Its really not frank racism. It's a Democrat in the White House. We saw the exact same thing happen blossom under Clinton, though the violent fringe right really started in the early ninities in response to GHWB and "new world order" paranoia,, and it culminated in OKC, Erc Rudoplh and eventually Columbine. (/11 was really what put a stop to it for about a decade, and Obama's election concided with the resurgence of domestic hate groups, but in a macro sense, its not that he's black, although that doesn't hurt, its that he represents a threatening federal power and we don't really have an external enemy to unite us right now.  the USA has a long, long history of violent radicalism across the political spectrum and it only ever goes away when we have a moment of cultural unity, like a war or an economic boom that raises everyone's fortunes, and that hasn't happened since the late 70's.


I was told 9/11 changed everything.

I know I was told to go shopping.
 
2013-03-06 12:07:04 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Whiskey Pete: Don't you have some wild hogs to shoot, Derpin' In Anson?

That's the best response you've got? Weaksauce.


* yawn *
 
2013-03-06 12:09:08 PM  

EyeballKid: Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.

The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco so his messiah complex could meet a self-fulfilling prophecy; the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.


And we have a halfwit on here defending both of them. Lovely.
 
2013-03-06 12:09:36 PM  

The Muthaship: what_now: The Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate violence either.

They are more of a hate the sinner and the sin group, it seems to me.  The FRC, deluded as they are, seems like they are just against the sin.


Using phony studies and outright lies to claim that homosexuals sexually abuse children at astronomical rates is not "just against the sin."  It is slander, and particularly vile, hateful slander at that.

The SPLC specifically mentions they do NOT list groups that merely base their beliefs on biblical scripture.
 
2013-03-06 12:10:04 PM  

what_now: Hey The Muthaship , do you think  discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation is acceptable?


The Family Research Counsel lobbies to exclude gays from anti-bullying laws because, you know, God says we should beat up the scrawny kids we think are gay. Yep, the FRC is in no way a hate group.
 
2013-03-06 12:10:22 PM  

EyeballKid: Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.

The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco so his messiah complex could meet a self-fulfilling prophecy; the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.


And the biggest tragedy of Dave Koresh and Tim McVeigh is that had they managed to stay alive to now, there's a strong likelihood they'd have been strong contenders for the 2016 Tea Party ticket.
 
2013-03-06 12:11:46 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.


Have you ever read Them: Adventures with Extremists? It's a good book and sums this stuff up nicely.


But I won't deny that OC was inspired by Waco
 
2013-03-06 12:14:39 PM  

Whiskey Pete: EyeballKid: Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.

The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco so his messiah complex could meet a self-fulfilling prophecy; the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.

And we have a halfwit on here defending both of them. Lovely.


Well, obviously, the Gubmint deliberately torched the Waco compound because they're Saturday morning cartoon villains, afraid of the True Conservative Patriots inside. That makes so much more sense than 'A lunatic cult leader deliberately martyred himself and his followers', because that sort of thing never happens.
 
2013-03-06 12:18:46 PM  
Tri-state area?.... Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated

Klansmen coming to Memphis to rally March 30th will not be allowed to wear their infamous hoods, which many in the city believe will stop a large showing of the KKK, but the SPLC says Klansmen will still come, regardless.
"Many states have anti-masking laws. Most Klansmen are used to this," said Potok.


Anti masking laws?  Never new this was a thing.  How the heck is that even legal?
 
2013-03-06 12:21:37 PM  

willfullyobscure: We saw the exact same thing happen blossom under Clinton, though the violent fringe right really started in the early ninities in response to GHWB and "new world order" paranoia,, and it culminated in OKC, Erc Rudoplh and eventually Columbine. (/11 was really what put a stop to it for about a decade, and Obama's election concided with the resurgence of domestic hate groups, but in a macro sense, its not that he's black, although that doesn't hurt, its that he represents a threatening federal power and we don't really have an external enemy to unite us right now. the USA has a long, long history of violent radicalism across the political spectrum and it only ever goes away when we have a moment of cultural unity, like a war or an economic boom that raises everyone's fortunes, and that hasn't happened since the late 70's.


Stretches back to John Birch and anti-catholic rhetoric surrounding the JFK presidency too.

And, oh, look, another Koch reference. Koch involved in the founding of the John Birch Society.
 
2013-03-06 12:23:17 PM  
You know how you beat hate groups? Make them public, and mock them every chance you can. Take the oomph out of their sails

/that's how the Hammerskins became more than just the name for the gay steel industry
//hot stuff coming through
 
2013-03-06 12:25:07 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Funny you mention those two. Tell me what happened to the guy on the right and how that may have inspired the one on the left.


Er, the one on the left explicitly said he timed his attack to coincide with the incident involving the one in the right? That's what kinda gave it away for me.
 
2013-03-06 12:25:28 PM  

EyeballKid: The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco


Do whut?

EyeballKid: the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.


Actually his motivation in part was Waco. Does this justify his actions? Not in any way shape or form, however, had AFT picked Jebus Wannabe on his daily jog instead of busting into a compound full of his armed followers, chances are, 85 men women and children would not have been killed and at least one of his government demons would not have existed. Without Waco, chances are you wouldn't have OKC.

Whiskey Pete: * yawn *


Exactly.

Whiskey Pete: And we have a halfwit on here  defending both of them.

Where? This guy?

somedude210: But I won't deny that OC was inspired by Waco

 
2013-03-06 12:30:54 PM  
Glad to see that this thread hasn't been derailed by someone pretending to not understand obvious things.
 
2013-03-06 12:30:56 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: somedude210: But I won't deny that OC was inspired by Waco


....what the hell did I do to you?

McVagh said that what the government did at Waco inspired him to commit OC

Christ, it's not like I said that Korresh was right and the gubmint was wrong with Waco
 
2013-03-06 12:32:44 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: however, had AFT picked Jebus Wannabe on his daily jog instead of busting into a compound full of his armed followers, chances are, 85 men women and children would not have been killed and at least one of his government demons would not have existed. Without Waco, chances are you wouldn't have OKC


and if the US hadn't had based in Saudia Arabia, 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

There is value in figuring out why people do terrible things, but at the end of the day, you need to blame the terrible people.
 
2013-03-06 12:32:54 PM  
Yeah I saw the Nation of Islam on there. They have a worship/social center in Memphis. But mostly they bake a lot of bean pies, advocate diet reform and complain about Whitey. Farrakhan's tirades against 'Jews' are straight out of the New Testament, like a lot of psuedo-Christian groups. I guess I'm not as concerned with them at this time.

/Lord loves a workin' man, see a doctor and get rid of it
 
2013-03-06 12:34:21 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: EyeballKid: The guy on the right, a failed musician who "turned to God," blamed the government for his shortcomings, so he let a bunch of innocent women and children be killed in Waco

Do whut?

EyeballKid: the fellow to the left, a failed soldier who couldn't find work, blamed the government for his shortcomings, and he decided to show that mean ol' gubmint what's what by killing a bunch of women and children in Oklahoma City.

Actually his motivation in part was Waco. Does this justify his actions? Not in any way shape or form, however, had AFT picked Jebus Wannabe on his daily jog instead of busting into a compound full of his armed followers, chances are, 85 men women and children would not have been killed and at least one of his government demons would not have existed. Without Waco, chances are you wouldn't have OKC.

Whiskey Pete: * yawn *

Exactly.

Whiskey Pete: And we have a halfwit on here  defending both of them.

Where? This guy?

somedude210: But I won't deny that OC was inspired by Waco


So you're saying that McVeigh wouldn't have committed OKC without Waco, and would have just carried on with his life and been a happy dude? Come on. Anyone willing to commit murder on that scale is farked up to begin with. He would have found another "justification" for his acts. You're better than this.
 
2013-03-06 12:34:49 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Without Waco, chances are you wouldn't have OKC.


And had those evil dogs not corrupted sweet, impressionable David Berkowitz...
 
2013-03-06 12:35:31 PM  

adamgreeney: You're better than this.


No he's not.
 
2013-03-06 12:36:01 PM  

EyeballKid: Dancin_In_Anson: Without Waco, chances are you wouldn't have OKC.

And had those evil dogs not corrupted sweet, impressionable David Berkowitz...


And if those tasty thighs hadn't tempted Jeffrey Dahmer . . .
 
2013-03-06 12:37:03 PM  
Of course... These people are scared shiatless of anything that doesn't fit their narrow-minded view of what America should be. They surround themselves with like-minded idiots and lots and lots of firearms for the coming race war (which has been coming for last 50 years or so, I guess).

Same thing happened during Clinton's tenure.

People who join these groups (including the FRC) are paranoid, reactionary, scared, bigoted, provincial fundamentalists.

They're free to be so, of course, but if they step over the line, I fully support coming down on these cretins like a ton of bricks. Try them, convict them, throw their ignorant asses in jail for as long as allowed by law, seize their property and land and give it to their victims. I have no problem with any of that.
 
2013-03-06 12:37:44 PM  

blastoh: Slaves2Darkness: Awww ... just like the last time a Democrat was president.

Yeah, these people still have the democrat=liberal=socialist=communist=facists=dictator=hitler mentality.  So anytime there is a democrat in office they panic.
The fact that the president is a Black Demcrat with a funny name only adds to their fears.


Yeah, I remember NPR interviewed one of the guys that runs Stormfront or one of the other RW hate groups who was excited that we had a black president.

He was excited because it was going to drive membership to groups like his.
 
2013-03-06 12:37:46 PM  

adamgreeney: So you're saying that McVeigh wouldn't have committed OKC without Waco, and would have just carried on with his life and been a happy dude? Come on. Anyone willing to commit murder on that scale is farked up to begin with. He would have found another "justification" for his acts. You're better than this.


whoa whoa whoa, I merely pointed out that waco was McVeigh's motivation (his words). He'd probably find something else, but that was his "last straw"
 
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